Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[John Covici]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 22:55:54 -0400,
Dale wrote:
> 
> [1  ]
> Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 9:49 PM Dale  wrote:
> >> Then they created moderators with people to enforce some rules.  It got 
> >> better.  Actually, a lot better.
> > That is actually really good to hear.  The whole CoC/Proctors thing
> > has been a bit of a mess and incredibly contentious.  It has also been
> > mostly inactive, in part because for the most part these threads have
> > actually done a pretty good job of moderating themselves.  Maybe it is
> > because people fear moderation.  Maybe it is because nobody really
> > wants to have to see us have to deal with it.  Bugs get filed asking
> > for moderation, and maybe that is all it takes for the parties
> > involved to decide to cool things down.
> >
> > As much as some seem to think otherwise, the reality is that most of
> > the Proctors really don't like kicking that hornets nest.  In any case
> > all Proctors actions are completely public in bugzilla so anybody can
> > see for themselves.  If you don't see much it is because there isn't
> > actually much to see...
> >
> 
> I admit, I don't monitor what they do much but I've seen a huge
> improvement.  I moderated a political site for a few years.  Still have
> access but health and life takes up a lot of time.  I always referred to
> it as herding cats.  You can herd up pretty much any animal, cows, pigs,
> sheep and the list goes on but herding cats is a tough thing to
> accomplish.  After being a moderator that has to deal with things that
> can be opinion with no one in the right or wrong, I know first hand how
> difficult and thankless the job can be.  Still, without it, it gets bad
> pretty fast.  I didn't like doing timeouts, banning and such either. 
> Thing is, when it needed doing, I did it.  I was the lead moderator for
> a good long while. 
> 
> I think instead of dying, Gentoo is stronger even if it involves fewer
> people.  Sure, there is packages that need some attention but if they
> are in demand, usually someone steps up and gives them the attention
> they need to get back up to date. I'm not sure why people keep thinking
> Gentoo is dying.  Sometimes I think it is more about the difference
> between binary distros they are coming from and Gentoo being source
> based than Gentoo actually dying.  When people consider switching to
> Gentoo, it's different from what they expect.  They may need to research
> what Gentoo is first.  Gentoo certainly doesn't hold a persons hand
> during the install or even after the install.  Heck, I been around a
> long time and it doesn't hold my hand even today. 
> 
> Compared to the bad times, -dev is like heaven today.  It was beyond
> words to describe during its worst days.
> 

I am seeing a lot more unmaintained packages -- at least in the ones I
have -- than there used to be and bugs going unanswered probably
because of that.  Not sure what to do about it, I don't have time to
get into doing this much, just keeping up with world updates is quite
time consuming all by itself.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Philip Webb]

200421 Dale wrote ... :
> Rich Freeman wrote ... :
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 9:49 PM Dale  wrote:
> ... I'm not sure why people keep thinking Gentoo is dying.
> Sometimes I think it is more about the difference
> between binary distros they are coming from
> and Gentoo being source-based than Gentoo actually dying.
> When people consider switching to Gentoo, it's different
> from what they expect.  They may need to research what Gentoo is first.
> Gentoo certainly doesn't hold a person's hand
> during the install or even after the install.

I agree with almost all of this dialog.
Just like Dale, I stumbled into Gentoo in 2003
after Mandrake was late (again) with a semi-annual update.
I tried a couple of other distros, but they didn't install properly,
so I tried the latest new fad Gentoo, followed the install guide
& suddenly found myself looking at a working system.
I've never wanted to use anything else since.

Gentoo is for people who want to run their own Linux systems,
not something someone else out there decided they ought to want.
It does involve a bit of work + responsibility :
my analogy has always been that M$/Mac are like living in a hotel,
Linux binary distros are like renting an apartment
& Gentoo is like owning your own house.

At first, I assumed Consus -- yet another silly pseudonym --
was a troll of the kind which does turn up here every couple of years,
but his remarks do suggest he's genuinely interested, if ignorant (smile).
Hopefully, he will learn how things get done, stay around & help out.

Gentoo does have a major weakness, which is the state of Portage.
It needs a thoro' rewrite, preferably in a faster language than Python.
I'm too old & it's a long time since I did any programming,
so No I'm not volunteering, but if we're lucky
someone -- M Gorny ? -- will get it started & others will join in.

Meanwhile, thanks yet again to all the devs for their unpaid work.

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatcadotinterdotnet

Re: [gentoo-user] PORTAGE_BUILDDIR does not exist

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:58:09 +0100, Ashley Dixon wrote:

> I've been getting this build message for every package that I attempt
> to emerge. I'm starting to become  concerned  that  my  Portage
> installation  is  corrupt, although  I  want  to  make  sure  before  I
>  try  and  embark  on  the  lengthy Portage-rescue process.
> 
> For example, if I try to emerge app-editors/emacs (a package I  have
> never  had installed), I get the following error, both from emerge and
> a raw Python  crash:
> 
> Calculating dependencies  ... done!
> 
> >>> Verifying ebuild manifests  
> 
> >>> Emerging (1 of 5) net-libs/liblockfile-1.16::gentoo  
>  * Fetching files in the background.
>  * To view fetch progress, run in another terminal:
>  * tail -f /var/log/emerge-fetch.log
> [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'mount': 'mount':
>/bin/bash -c /usr/lib/portage/python3.6/ebuild.sh clean
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/portage/process.py", line
> 382, in spawn unshare_flags, cgroup)
>   File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/portage/process.py", line
> 691, in _exec '--make-slave', '/proc'])
>   File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/subprocess.py", line 729, in __init__
> restore_signals, start_new_session)
>   File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/subprocess.py", line 1364, in
> _execute_child raise child_exception_type(errno_num, err_msg,
> err_filename) FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
> 'mount': 'mount'
>  * The ebuild phase 'die_hooks' has been aborted since PORTAGE_BUILDDIR
>  * does not exist: '/var/tmp/portage/net-libs/liblockfile-1.16'
> 
> >>> Failed to emerge net-libs/liblockfile-1.16  
>  * Messages for package net-libs/liblockfile-1.16:
> 
> 
> 
> Does  anyone  know  if  anything  can  be  done,  short  of
> re-installing   and re-configuring Portage ?

The reference to PORTAGE_BUILDDIR comes after die_hooks is called, so
the build has already failed at that point. It looks like the clean phase
may be failing, but more output would be helpful. The first thing I would
try is "rm -fr /var/tmp/portage" or wherever PORTAGE_TMPDIR is set.

It may also be worth checking for corruption on that filesystem.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

By the time you can make ends meet, they move the ends.


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Consus]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 08:10:33PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> No it's not. It may be time consuming, especially the first time, but
> it is not difficult because the handbook explains it well. It's pretty
> much a once only job too as once you have a working config you can use
> it as the base for all upgrades.

Aha. YAMA appeared in genkernel something about two months ago :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

John Covici wrote:
>
> I am seeing a lot more unmaintained packages -- at least in the ones I
> have -- than there used to be and bugs going unanswered probably
> because of that.  Not sure what to do about it, I don't have time to
> get into doing this much, just keeping up with world updates is quite
> time consuming all by itself.
>


That may be but the packages that are most used are likely maintained
and well maintained at that.  There are some old packages that haven't
been updated in years, upstream is dead or no one uses them much anymore
that are slowly being removed.  If one can't install them, no real point
in them being in the tree.  I might add, the switch from the much older
pythons are really forcing a house cleaning.  But, some packages are
just out of date and something new has taken their place.  Nothing new
there.  I'm sure this happens with every distro out there, even the paid
ones.

I follow -dev and have recently had to uninstall a package and install
something else that is newer and more up to date.  I saw a message about
that old package that seemed to stop working for me a good while ago. 
What I had still lurking about would sometimes crash and I didn't trust
it.  I used to use that as a GUI to manage LVM.  I use LVM a lot here. 
In that message was them removing the old package and recommending a
replacement I never heard of.  I installed it and it may actually be
better than the old software I used to use.  While the old package may
be gone, the new one seems to be more up to date, stable and appears to
have a better design.  Different for sure, I'll have to learn how the
GUI does its thing but could be better in the end. Since LVM has been
updated a good bit in the past year or so, that old software either
needed a lot of work or just use the newer software.

There are a lot of packages that are just not used by enough people to
maintain them anymore.  Some are being replaced with more up to date
packages.  There are lots of reasons for that.  If a package you use is
being removed, search -dev and look to see if there is a replacement
mentioned in the last rites message.  If it was removed, they almost
always include a replacement if there is one.  Sometimes another package
absorbs what the old package used to do. While at times -dev can get
quite busy, I'd be lost without it.  Things are mentioned there about
upcoming changes that I don't see mentioned anywhere else.  That
includes this list as well.  It's a great way to keep somewhat up to
date on what's going on.  One doesn't have to read every post either. 
After a while, you can tell by the subject line if that thread will be
anything you would be interested in.  Last rites, things about upgrades
and such get my attention.  I generally know when something big is going
to happen weeks or even months before it hits the tree.

If you want to share what packages you are missing out on, I'd be glad
to search my -dev archives and see if I can find something that may help. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Alexandru N. Barloiu]

On Tue, 2020-04-21 at 19:58 +0300, Consus wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In all honesty, is Gentoo dead? Gentoo-Dev is filled with passive
> aggression (though being developers-only mailing list), Github bot
> warns
> you that contributing new packages to the main repo is low priority
> and
> probably no one will help you, and even distribution kernel is not an
> official thing, but a desperate attempt of someone to fix things.


gentoo is held on together by passion. well, not all of gentoo. MY
gentoo.

it was never going to be a mainstream distro. might have been a fad for
a while, for some people able to follow guides. but people who use this
distro... do not need guides. 

it is what is. a collection of hacks for hackers. gentoo doesn't and
shouldn't compete in a popularity contest. but on the other hand, I
don't plan to stop using it even if the devs magically dissapear over
night. I'll go back to lfs before I'd go back to any binary distro. and
I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one.

people who actually choose gentoo for what it is, do not need their
hand held. do not whine. and certainly don't care about "the number of
this" or the "number of that" or "how great that would be". you don't
like it? it's prolly not for you. 


axl

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Tinderboxes?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday, 21 April 2020 23:36:21 BST Michael Jones wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:02 PM Gregory Rudolph  wrote:
> > I would also offer up some computing power for that, on VMs, or physical
> > hardware with different configurations. I'd like to be more involved with
> > the Gentoo Development community, but time is rarely ever on my side.
> > 
> > 
> > Best wishes, gentoo's not dead,
> 
> Right, I'm sitting on several big-beefy x86_64 machines (They're older
> machines, but they check out...) that typically are powered off.
> 
> I would be happy to donate CPU cycles from one of them.

Have you thought of contributing their power to BOINC projects? There's a wide 
choice.

https://boinc.berkeley.edu/

"BOINC is an open-source software platform for computing using volunteered 
resources."

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Tinderboxes?

[J. Roeleveld]

On 22 April 2020 11:46:33 CEST, Peter Humphrey  wrote:
>On Tuesday, 21 April 2020 23:36:21 BST Michael Jones wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:02 PM Gregory Rudolph 
>wrote:
>> > I would also offer up some computing power for that, on VMs, or
>physical
>> > hardware with different configurations. I'd like to be more
>involved with
>> > the Gentoo Development community, but time is rarely ever on my
>side.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Best wishes, gentoo's not dead,
>> 
>> Right, I'm sitting on several big-beefy x86_64 machines (They're
>older
>> machines, but they check out...) that typically are powered off.
>> 
>> I would be happy to donate CPU cycles from one of them.
>
>Have you thought of contributing their power to BOINC projects? There's
>a wide 
>choice.
>
>https://boinc.berkeley.edu/
>
>"BOINC is an open-source software platform for computing using
>volunteered 
>resources."

Considering the current situation, I switched my systems to foldingathome.

Any other similar projects?

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[gentoo-user] Re: Problem understanding "eix"

[Dr Rainer Woitok]

Martin,

On Tuesday, 2020-04-21 18:02:37 -, you wrote:

> ...
> DEFAULT_ARCH is normally not used, because it should be set in
> the profile. Does
>   eix --print ARCH
> also show amd64?

BINGO!  No, it doesn't:

   $ eix --print ARCH
   x86_64
   $

And that rings a bell: for historical reasons my "~/.profile" initializ-
ation script contains the line

   export ARCH=$(arch || uname -m) 2> /dev/null

which helped me  getting my  personal environment right  on every of the
computing center's zillions of hosts I had to login in my previous life.

Thankyou so much for hunting this down for me :-)

But unsetting ARCH  or setting it to amd64  doesn't change things, prob-
ably because  the wrong value meanwhile  is part of the database used by
"eix".  Will it suffice to run "eix-update" with "ARCH" being unset?

> ...
> >app-crypt/tpm2-tss   2.2.3-r21 1
> >app-crypt/tpm2-tss   2.3.3   1 1
> 
> This is strange: Both versions are only ~amd64, and in your previous
> posting the output for {isstable} was indeed 0.

No.  It was only 0 in the output of the "installedversions" call, where-
as the lines quoted above  originated from the "availableversions" call.
And the problem is  that "{isstable}"  and "{isunstable}"  must not be 1
at the same time, even if ARCH is erroneously set to "x86_64".

So this might finally be a bug in "eix" ...

Sincerely,
  Rainer

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Tinderboxes?

[Neil Bothwick]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:17:23 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> >"BOINC is an open-source software platform for computing using
> >volunteered 
> >resources."  
> 
> Considering the current situation, I switched my systems to
> foldingathome.

Aren't BOINC doing COViD-19 work too?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Are Cheerios really doughnut seeds?


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[gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,

[Majid Hussain]

hi there,
i'm blind and wanted to get started with gentoo.
what's accessibility like?
is there speech via orca the screen reader or sound on the minimal iso
via espeakup provided?
I red this document,
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Accessibility
which seembs to be up-to-date, is there a update on this?
not sure if this was the correct place to post my question?
i'm a complete newb with gentoo I would be greatfull for your assistence,
i'm looking for an adventure.
Majid


-- 
kind regards,
Majid Hussain

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[John Covici]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 04:15:18 -0400,
Dale wrote:
> 
> [1  ]
> John Covici wrote:
> >
> > I am seeing a lot more unmaintained packages -- at least in the ones I
> > have -- than there used to be and bugs going unanswered probably
> > because of that.  Not sure what to do about it, I don't have time to
> > get into doing this much, just keeping up with world updates is quite
> > time consuming all by itself.
> >
> 
> 
> That may be but the packages that are most used are likely maintained
> and well maintained at that.  There are some old packages that haven't
> been updated in years, upstream is dead or no one uses them much anymore
> that are slowly being removed.  If one can't install them, no real point
> in them being in the tree.  I might add, the switch from the much older
> pythons are really forcing a house cleaning.  But, some packages are
> just out of date and something new has taken their place.  Nothing new
> there.  I'm sure this happens with every distro out there, even the paid
> ones.
> 
> I follow -dev and have recently had to uninstall a package and install
> something else that is newer and more up to date.  I saw a message about
> that old package that seemed to stop working for me a good while ago. 
> What I had still lurking about would sometimes crash and I didn't trust
> it.  I used to use that as a GUI to manage LVM.  I use LVM a lot here. 
> In that message was them removing the old package and recommending a
> replacement I never heard of.  I installed it and it may actually be
> better than the old software I used to use.  While the old package may
> be gone, the new one seems to be more up to date, stable and appears to
> have a better design.  Different for sure, I'll have to learn how the
> GUI does its thing but could be better in the end. Since LVM has been
> updated a good bit in the past year or so, that old software either
> needed a lot of work or just use the newer software.
> 
> There are a lot of packages that are just not used by enough people to
> maintain them anymore.  Some are being replaced with more up to date
> packages.  There are lots of reasons for that.  If a package you use is
> being removed, search -dev and look to see if there is a replacement
> mentioned in the last rites message.  If it was removed, they almost
> always include a replacement if there is one.  Sometimes another package
> absorbs what the old package used to do. While at times -dev can get
> quite busy, I'd be lost without it.  Things are mentioned there about
> upcoming changes that I don't see mentioned anywhere else.  That
> includes this list as well.  It's a great way to keep somewhat up to
> date on what's going on.  One doesn't have to read every post either. 
> After a while, you can tell by the subject line if that thread will be
> anything you would be interested in.  Last rites, things about upgrades
> and such get my attention.  I generally know when something big is going
> to happen weeks or even months before it hits the tree.
> 
> If you want to share what packages you are missing out on, I'd be glad
> to search my -dev archives and see if I can find something that may help. 

Well, teamviewer is the worst -- teamviewer 15 won't emerge because it
will overwrite files belonging to the previous version (!da).  Someone
even slotted the thing, but still no joy.  I filed a bug, but no
response.  Also, although I don't think there is a new version, but
sendmail seens to be unmaintained.
Also, ant-core --  there is a bug against that, but no fix as yet.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Alessandro Barbieri]

There is the ongoing drama about go in the Gentoo-dev ML for example.

Il Mar 21 Apr 2020, 19:12 Ashley Dixon  ha scritto:

> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 07:58:03PM +0300, Consus wrote:
> > In all honesty, is Gentoo dead? Gentoo-Dev is filled with passive
> > aggression (though being developers-only mailing list), Github bot warns
> > you that contributing new packages to the main repo is low priority and
> > probably no one will help you, and even distribution kernel is not an
> > official thing, but a desperate attempt of someone to fix things.
>
> Considering there have been almost 6000 commits to the repository in the
> last 21
> days, I would question that claim.
>
> https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-commits/threads/2020-04/
>
> gentoo-dev isn't really filled with  any  sort  aggression.   There  is
> healthy
> debate, especially considering the recent switch to Python 3.7  and
> masking  of
> most 3.6-only packages, but that rigorous scrutiny is a requirement for
> such  a
> strong distro.
>
> There  have,  of  course,  been  exceptions,  such  as  when  bman  went
> on  an
> "unsanctioned Python crusade"  (removal  of  all  Python  2  packages;
> not  the
> greatest of ideas), however in general, the Gentoo community is one of
> the  most
> alive and healthy I've seen in any Linux distribution.
>
>
> https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/6e8d816eb0125d6581be70f575272653
>
> --
>
> Ashley Dixon
> suugaku.co.uk
>
> 2A9A 4117
> DA96 D18A
> 8A7B B0D2
> A30E BF25
> F290 A8AA
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,

[Ashley Dixon]

> i'm blind and wanted to get started with gentoo.
> what's accessibility like?
> is there speech via orca the screen reader or sound on the minimal iso
> via espeakup provided?
> I red this document,
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Accessibility
> which seembs to be up-to-date, is there a update on this?

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 01:04:48PM +0100, Majid Hussain wrote:
> hi there,

Hi Majid, I hope you're well.

Have  you  visited  [1]  ?   It  is  a  community  of  Linux-focused  blind  and
visually-impaired users, such as yourself, who have formed a  community  out  of
building accessibility software; primarily screen-readers [2].

You'd probably have the  most  difficulty  on  the  initial  set-up,  as  Gentoo
installation takes place, almost entirely, in  the  tty,  before  you  have  any
opportunity to install X.  You could try running it  in  some  sort  of  virtual
machine and see if a screen-reader could parse the contents of the V.M.\ window.

> I'm a complete newb with gentoo I would be greatful for your assistance

How much prior Linux experience do you have ?  Do you know  of  a  screen-reader
that works well once you have got to the point of installing a window manager  ?

This is the ONE situation  under  which  I  would  recommend  GNOME,  as  it  is
generally the best with built-in accessibility features [3].   Unfortunately,  a
lot of the more niche W.M.s  (such  as  i3)  require  an  incredible  amount  of
tinkering (and often  changes  to  the  code-base)  to  introduce  any  sort  of
considering  for accessibility.

> I'm looking for an adventure.

Don't worry, all Gentoo users get a hell of an experience, blind  or  otherwise.
I'm sure you'll have an  incredible  amount  of  fun  using  this  distro.   ;-)

> not sure if this was the correct place to post my question?

gentoo-user is the  general  space  for  any  user-land  (non-developer)  issues
regarding Gentoo, so I doubt there are  any  problems  with  you  posting  here.
Everything from this list (like all  Gentoo  lists)  gets  archived  on-line  by
Gentoo at [4] and Google at [5], so in addition to solving  your  own  problems,
mailing lists provide the advantage of helping future users with similar issues.

There is also the `gentoo-accessibility` list [6], but  it's  been  dead  for  a
while.

(There are various other H.T.T.P.\ archiving  services,  such  as  M.Arc.   [7],
however  Gentoo  and  Google  are  the  most   popular   in   search   results.)

Hope this helps,
Ashley.

[1] http://www.linux-speakup.org/
[2] http://www.linux-speakup.org/spkguide.txt
[3] https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility
[4] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/
[5] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/linux.gentoo.user
[6] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-accessibility/
[7] https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-user

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

2A9A 4117
DA96 D18A
8A7B B0D2
A30E BF25
F290 A8AA



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[gentoo-user] new hd: Security / hdparm / differences

[tuxic]

Hi,

In my system there is a 3T Winchester digital blue 

Model Number:   WDC WD30EZRZ-00GXCB0
Firmware Revision:  80.00A80


I bougth a second one for backyp purposes

Model Number:   WDC WD30EZRZ-00Z5HB0
Firmware Revision:  80.00A80

Looks pretty simiiar to me...

The first one is in use for a month or so, I received
the second one just two hours ago.

I want to disable the security feature and the spindown-if-idle
feature of the second drive as I did with the first.

First step was to compare the output of 'hdparm -I ' of the
first with that of the second one.

Differences ( I will skip identical parts ):

First:
Standards:
Used: unknown (minor revision code 0x006d) 
Supported: 10 9 8 7 6 5 
Likely used: 10

Second:
Standards:
Supported: 9 8 7 6 5 
Likely used: 9



First:
Formfactor 3.5inch

Second:
Not mentioned

First
Commands/features:
Enabled Supported:
   *DMA Setup Auto-Activate optimization
Device-initiated interface power management
   *Software settings preservation
unknown 206[12] (vendor specific)
unknown 206[13] (vendor specific)
   *DOWNLOAD MICROCODE DMA command
   *WRITE BUFFER DMA command
   *READ BUFFER DMA command

Second:
Commands/features:
Enabled Supported:
DMA Setup Auto-Activate optimization
   *SCT Write Same (AC2)
   *SCT Features Control (AC4)
   *SCT Data Tables (AC5)
unknown 206[12] (vendor specific)
unknown 206[13] (vendor specific)
unknown 206[14] (vendor specific)



"DMA Setup Ayto-Activate optimization" is enable for the first drive,
for second one it is not. The section about this feature in the
manpage says "use with extreme caytion" and I cannot decide, whether
that what is written there is still valid or some sort of cry
from the past.

I am unsure about to think about these differences...?

The second thing are the security settings. I want drives with no
security settings and no way to manipulate them without user
interaction. I want these settings stored in the drive instead
of setting them at each boot since the second drive will be
temporarily used in a docking station "past boot".

The current security settings for both drives are:
not enabled
not locked
frozen
not expired: security count
supported: enhanced erase

(I have frozen the settings for the second drive just a minute ago and
it will forget the settings (going "not frozen" then) as soon I switch
the docking station off and on again.)

If I remember correctly I did this for the frsit drive with:
freeze security setting
lock security settings

and I did this without using any password.

On the second drive "freeze" works as exspected, but "lock"
wants a password.

After startpageing for a while I found a site with "Master passwords
for some drives"...and I am unsure of what I have found there
(reliability-wise ... it was not via the TOR network, though... ;)

Currently there are no data on the second drive. So accidentally
wiping it off doesn't matter as long the drive remains intact.

I would prefer to have both drives in the same state.
I didn't changed any DMA-related settings for the first drive by the
way.

How should I handle the DMA differences between the frist and the
second drive?

How can I handle the security issue with the second drive?

Cheers!
Meino

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,

[Majid Hussain]

hi there,
now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible,
compared to gnome,
orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched,
espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and
friends are launched,
it's what debian uses on the net install image,
hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image?
unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non  gentoo system?
Majid

On 22/04/2020, Ashley Dixon  wrote:
>> i'm blind and wanted to get started with gentoo.
>> what's accessibility like?
>> is there speech via orca the screen reader or sound on the minimal iso
>> via espeakup provided?
>> I red this document,
>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Accessibility
>> which seembs to be up-to-date, is there a update on this?
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 01:04:48PM +0100, Majid Hussain wrote:
>> hi there,
>
> Hi Majid, I hope you're well.
>
> Have  you  visited  [1]  ?   It  is  a  community  of  Linux-focused  blind
> and
> visually-impaired users, such as yourself, who have formed a  community  out
>  of
> building accessibility software; primarily screen-readers [2].
>
> You'd probably have the  most  difficulty  on  the  initial  set-up,  as
> Gentoo
> installation takes place, almost entirely, in  the  tty,  before  you  have
> any
> opportunity to install X.  You could try running it  in  some  sort  of
> virtual
> machine and see if a screen-reader could parse the contents of the V.M.\
> window.
>
>> I'm a complete newb with gentoo I would be greatful for your assistance
>
> How much prior Linux experience do you have ?  Do you know  of  a
> screen-reader
> that works well once you have got to the point of installing a window
> manager  ?
>
> This is the ONE situation  under  which  I  would  recommend  GNOME,  as  it
>  is
> generally the best with built-in accessibility features [3].
> Unfortunately,  a
> lot of the more niche W.M.s  (such  as  i3)  require  an  incredible  amount
>  of
> tinkering (and often  changes  to  the  code-base)  to  introduce  any  sort
>  of
> considering  for accessibility.
>
>> I'm looking for an adventure.
>
> Don't worry, all Gentoo users get a hell of an experience, blind  or
> otherwise.
> I'm sure you'll have an  incredible  amount  of  fun  using  this  distro.
> ;-)
>
>> not sure if this was the correct place to post my question?
>
> gentoo-user is the  general  space  for  any  user-land  (non-developer)
> issues
> regarding Gentoo, so I doubt there are  any  problems  with  you  posting
> here.
> Everything from this list (like all  Gentoo  lists)  gets  archived  on-line
>  by
> Gentoo at [4] and Google at [5], so in addition to solving  your  own
> problems,
> mailing lists provide the advantage of helping future users with similar
> issues.
>
> There is also the `gentoo-accessibility` list [6], but  it's  been  dead
> for  a
> while.
>
> (There are various other H.T.T.P.\ archiving  services,  such  as  M.Arc.
> [7],
> however  Gentoo  and  Google  are  the  most   popular   in   search
> results.)
>
> Hope this helps,
> Ashley.
>
> [1] http://www.linux-speakup.org/
> [2] http://www.linux-speakup.org/spkguide.txt
> [3] https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility
> [4] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/
> [5] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/linux.gentoo.user
> [6] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-accessibility/
> [7] https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-user
>
> --
>
> Ashley Dixon
> suugaku.co.uk
>
> 2A9A 4117
> DA96 D18A
> 8A7B B0D2
> A30E BF25
> F290 A8AA
>
>


-- 
kind regards,
Majid Hussain

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,

[Majid Hussain]

hey,
sorry for being spammy,
what desktop enviroment is used on the live dvd iso?
gnome? mate?
does that have orca on it?
note,
speech-dispatcher and espeak-ng are required for things to function,
with pulse audio,
Majid

On 22/04/2020, Majid Hussain  wrote:
> hi there,
> now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible,
> compared to gnome,
> orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched,
> espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and
> friends are launched,
> it's what debian uses on the net install image,
> hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image?
> unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non  gentoo
> system?
> Majid
>
> On 22/04/2020, Ashley Dixon  wrote:
>>> i'm blind and wanted to get started with gentoo.
>>> what's accessibility like?
>>> is there speech via orca the screen reader or sound on the minimal iso
>>> via espeakup provided?
>>> I red this document,
>>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Accessibility
>>> which seembs to be up-to-date, is there a update on this?
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 01:04:48PM +0100, Majid Hussain wrote:
>>> hi there,
>>
>> Hi Majid, I hope you're well.
>>
>> Have  you  visited  [1]  ?   It  is  a  community  of  Linux-focused
>> blind
>> and
>> visually-impaired users, such as yourself, who have formed a  community
>> out
>>  of
>> building accessibility software; primarily screen-readers [2].
>>
>> You'd probably have the  most  difficulty  on  the  initial  set-up,  as
>> Gentoo
>> installation takes place, almost entirely, in  the  tty,  before  you
>> have
>> any
>> opportunity to install X.  You could try running it  in  some  sort  of
>> virtual
>> machine and see if a screen-reader could parse the contents of the V.M.\
>> window.
>>
>>> I'm a complete newb with gentoo I would be greatful for your assistance
>>
>> How much prior Linux experience do you have ?  Do you know  of  a
>> screen-reader
>> that works well once you have got to the point of installing a window
>> manager  ?
>>
>> This is the ONE situation  under  which  I  would  recommend  GNOME,  as
>> it
>>  is
>> generally the best with built-in accessibility features [3].
>> Unfortunately,  a
>> lot of the more niche W.M.s  (such  as  i3)  require  an  incredible
>> amount
>>  of
>> tinkering (and often  changes  to  the  code-base)  to  introduce  any
>> sort
>>  of
>> considering  for accessibility.
>>
>>> I'm looking for an adventure.
>>
>> Don't worry, all Gentoo users get a hell of an experience, blind  or
>> otherwise.
>> I'm sure you'll have an  incredible  amount  of  fun  using  this
>> distro.
>> ;-)
>>
>>> not sure if this was the correct place to post my question?
>>
>> gentoo-user is the  general  space  for  any  user-land  (non-developer)
>> issues
>> regarding Gentoo, so I doubt there are  any  problems  with  you  posting
>> here.
>> Everything from this list (like all  Gentoo  lists)  gets  archived
>> on-line
>>  by
>> Gentoo at [4] and Google at [5], so in addition to solving  your  own
>> problems,
>> mailing lists provide the advantage of helping future users with similar
>> issues.
>>
>> There is also the `gentoo-accessibility` list [6], but  it's  been  dead
>> for  a
>> while.
>>
>> (There are various other H.T.T.P.\ archiving  services,  such  as  M.Arc.
>> [7],
>> however  Gentoo  and  Google  are  the  most   popular   in   search
>> results.)
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Ashley.
>>
>> [1] http://www.linux-speakup.org/
>> [2] http://www.linux-speakup.org/spkguide.txt
>> [3] https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility
>> [4] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/
>> [5] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/linux.gentoo.user
>> [6] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-accessibility/
>> [7] https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-user
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ashley Dixon
>> suugaku.co.uk
>>
>> 2A9A 4117
>> DA96 D18A
>> 8A7B B0D2
>> A30E BF25
>> F290 A8AA
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> kind regards,
> Majid Hussain
>


-- 
kind regards,
Majid Hussain

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: best rss reader?

[Ashley Dixon]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 08:25:45PM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2020-04-20 05:09, Ashley Dixon wrote:
> 
> > [1] https://github.com/kouya/snownews
> 
> Snownews seems to lack SSL support completely, or am I wrong?  The great
> majority of feeds I read are https:// URLs.

No, you're right, it does lack S.S.L. I just haven't noticed it before since all
the feeds to which I subscribe are rather esoteric or old.  For example, all  of
the B.B.C.\ News feeds (created in 2011) are without S.S.L. [1]

It was discussed at [2], but nothing ever happened.

[1] http://feeds.bbci.co.uk/news/world/asia/rss.xml
[2] https://github.com/kouya/snownews/issues/6#issuecomment-384389708

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

2A9A 4117
DA96 D18A
8A7B B0D2
A30E BF25
F290 A8AA



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

John Covici wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 04:15:18 -0400,
> Dale wrote:
>> [1  ]
>> John Covici wrote:
>>> I am seeing a lot more unmaintained packages -- at least in the ones I
>>> have -- than there used to be and bugs going unanswered probably
>>> because of that.  Not sure what to do about it, I don't have time to
>>> get into doing this much, just keeping up with world updates is quite
>>> time consuming all by itself.
>>>
>>
>> That may be but the packages that are most used are likely maintained
>> and well maintained at that.  There are some old packages that haven't
>> been updated in years, upstream is dead or no one uses them much anymore
>> that are slowly being removed.  If one can't install them, no real point
>> in them being in the tree.  I might add, the switch from the much older
>> pythons are really forcing a house cleaning.  But, some packages are
>> just out of date and something new has taken their place.  Nothing new
>> there.  I'm sure this happens with every distro out there, even the paid
>> ones.
>>
>> I follow -dev and have recently had to uninstall a package and install
>> something else that is newer and more up to date.  I saw a message about
>> that old package that seemed to stop working for me a good while ago. 
>> What I had still lurking about would sometimes crash and I didn't trust
>> it.  I used to use that as a GUI to manage LVM.  I use LVM a lot here. 
>> In that message was them removing the old package and recommending a
>> replacement I never heard of.  I installed it and it may actually be
>> better than the old software I used to use.  While the old package may
>> be gone, the new one seems to be more up to date, stable and appears to
>> have a better design.  Different for sure, I'll have to learn how the
>> GUI does its thing but could be better in the end. Since LVM has been
>> updated a good bit in the past year or so, that old software either
>> needed a lot of work or just use the newer software.
>>
>> There are a lot of packages that are just not used by enough people to
>> maintain them anymore.  Some are being replaced with more up to date
>> packages.  There are lots of reasons for that.  If a package you use is
>> being removed, search -dev and look to see if there is a replacement
>> mentioned in the last rites message.  If it was removed, they almost
>> always include a replacement if there is one.  Sometimes another package
>> absorbs what the old package used to do. While at times -dev can get
>> quite busy, I'd be lost without it.  Things are mentioned there about
>> upcoming changes that I don't see mentioned anywhere else.  That
>> includes this list as well.  It's a great way to keep somewhat up to
>> date on what's going on.  One doesn't have to read every post either. 
>> After a while, you can tell by the subject line if that thread will be
>> anything you would be interested in.  Last rites, things about upgrades
>> and such get my attention.  I generally know when something big is going
>> to happen weeks or even months before it hits the tree.
>>
>> If you want to share what packages you are missing out on, I'd be glad
>> to search my -dev archives and see if I can find something that may help. 
> Well, teamviewer is the worst -- teamviewer 15 won't emerge because it
> will overwrite files belonging to the previous version (!da).  Someone
> even slotted the thing, but still no joy.  I filed a bug, but no
> response.  Also, although I don't think there is a new version, but
> sendmail seens to be unmaintained.
> Also, ant-core --  there is a bug against that, but no fix as yet.
>


I did a search on the forums for teamview but didn't find that problem. 
Did you perhaps install it without using portage at some point?  If not,
can you try to emerge it and post the failure here, a new thread might
be best.  I bet there is someone here who can fix it even if they don't
use that package.  Generally, a file collision for one package is
handled much like any other package.  It's been a long time and emerge
has changed a LOT but the last time I ran into this, I unmerged the
package and then re-emerged it.

Sendmail.  I found this:


root@fireball / # cat
/var/cache/portage/tree/mail-mta/sendmail/metadata.xml

http://www.gentoo.org/dtd/metadata.dtd";>

    

root@fireball / #


It seems to be maintainer needed at the moment.  Most likely a dev
retired or was otherwise unable to maintain it any longer.  I'm not sure
who to contact to see if it can be nudged into action tho. You may can
talk to a dev, Rich is active on here, and see if he knows or is willing
to post on -dev about it needing attention.  Given its widespread use,
surely someone who uses it can step up and maintain it. 

Ant-core is maintained by the java team.  I'm not sure what their status
is at the moment but since it still exists, I'm sure they are active. 
I've seen posts in the past that the java team is a bit slow, lots of
work and not enough time in the day.  Might just t

[gentoo-user] layout.conf files in DISTDIR

[Alessandro Barbieri]

Do you know why fetchcommandwrapper+aria2c can't download the layout.conf
files in DISTDIR?
Also why non distfiles files are allowed to be downloaded in DISTDIR (I'm
looking at you repoman [1])?

[1] https://github.com/vaeth/trickyfetch/issues/2

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,

[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:45 AM Majid Hussain 
wrote:
>
> hi there,
> now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible,
> compared to gnome,
> orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched,
> espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and
> friends are launched,
> it's what debian uses on the net install image,
> hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image?
> unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non  gentoo
system?
> Majid
>

Hi Majid,
   I know nothing about accessibility systems but the meat of installing
Gentoo is essentially just you executing a bunch of instructions inside of
a chroot. You can start with any distro that currently provides
accessibility for you, set aside some disk space, chroot into it and then
do the Gentoo install work there. If the distro you start with can read
what's going on in that terminal as well as the install instructions off
the web pages for this task then I think you should be good to go.

Hope this helps,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[John Covici]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:53:24 -0400,
Dale wrote:
> 
> [1  ]
> John Covici wrote:
> > On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 04:15:18 -0400,
> > Dale wrote:
> >> [1  ]
> >> John Covici wrote:
> >>> I am seeing a lot more unmaintained packages -- at least in the ones I
> >>> have -- than there used to be and bugs going unanswered probably
> >>> because of that.  Not sure what to do about it, I don't have time to
> >>> get into doing this much, just keeping up with world updates is quite
> >>> time consuming all by itself.
> >>>
> >>
> >> That may be but the packages that are most used are likely maintained
> >> and well maintained at that.  There are some old packages that haven't
> >> been updated in years, upstream is dead or no one uses them much anymore
> >> that are slowly being removed.  If one can't install them, no real point
> >> in them being in the tree.  I might add, the switch from the much older
> >> pythons are really forcing a house cleaning.  But, some packages are
> >> just out of date and something new has taken their place.  Nothing new
> >> there.  I'm sure this happens with every distro out there, even the paid
> >> ones.
> >>
> >> I follow -dev and have recently had to uninstall a package and install
> >> something else that is newer and more up to date.  I saw a message about
> >> that old package that seemed to stop working for me a good while ago. 
> >> What I had still lurking about would sometimes crash and I didn't trust
> >> it.  I used to use that as a GUI to manage LVM.  I use LVM a lot here. 
> >> In that message was them removing the old package and recommending a
> >> replacement I never heard of.  I installed it and it may actually be
> >> better than the old software I used to use.  While the old package may
> >> be gone, the new one seems to be more up to date, stable and appears to
> >> have a better design.  Different for sure, I'll have to learn how the
> >> GUI does its thing but could be better in the end. Since LVM has been
> >> updated a good bit in the past year or so, that old software either
> >> needed a lot of work or just use the newer software.
> >>
> >> There are a lot of packages that are just not used by enough people to
> >> maintain them anymore.  Some are being replaced with more up to date
> >> packages.  There are lots of reasons for that.  If a package you use is
> >> being removed, search -dev and look to see if there is a replacement
> >> mentioned in the last rites message.  If it was removed, they almost
> >> always include a replacement if there is one.  Sometimes another package
> >> absorbs what the old package used to do. While at times -dev can get
> >> quite busy, I'd be lost without it.  Things are mentioned there about
> >> upcoming changes that I don't see mentioned anywhere else.  That
> >> includes this list as well.  It's a great way to keep somewhat up to
> >> date on what's going on.  One doesn't have to read every post either. 
> >> After a while, you can tell by the subject line if that thread will be
> >> anything you would be interested in.  Last rites, things about upgrades
> >> and such get my attention.  I generally know when something big is going
> >> to happen weeks or even months before it hits the tree.
> >>
> >> If you want to share what packages you are missing out on, I'd be glad
> >> to search my -dev archives and see if I can find something that may help. 
> > Well, teamviewer is the worst -- teamviewer 15 won't emerge because it
> > will overwrite files belonging to the previous version (!da).  Someone
> > even slotted the thing, but still no joy.  I filed a bug, but no
> > response.  Also, although I don't think there is a new version, but
> > sendmail seens to be unmaintained.
> > Also, ant-core --  there is a bug against that, but no fix as yet.
> >
> 
> 
> I did a search on the forums for teamview but didn't find that problem. 
> Did you perhaps install it without using portage at some point?  If not,
> can you try to emerge it and post the failure here, a new thread might
> be best.  I bet there is someone here who can fix it even if they don't
> use that package.  Generally, a file collision for one package is
> handled much like any other package.  It's been a long time and emerge
> has changed a LOT but the last time I ran into this, I unmerged the
> package and then re-emerged it.
> 
> Sendmail.  I found this:
> 
> 
> root@fireball / # cat
> /var/cache/portage/tree/mail-mta/sendmail/metadata.xml
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/dtd/metadata.dtd";>
> 
>     
> 
> root@fireball / #
> 
> 
> It seems to be maintainer needed at the moment.  Most likely a dev
> retired or was otherwise unable to maintain it any longer.  I'm not sure
> who to contact to see if it can be nudged into action tho. You may can
> talk to a dev, Rich is active on here, and see if he knows or is willing
> to post on -dev about it needing attention.  Given its widespread use,
> surely someone who uses it can step up and maintain it. 
> 
> Ant-core is maintai

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,

[Majid Hussain]

hey there mark,
you are ausom!
it has cleared things up alot!
on the chroot what doo I need?
thanks,
Majid Hussain

On 22/04/2020, Mark Knecht  wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:45 AM Majid Hussain 
> wrote:
>>
>> hi there,
>> now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible,
>> compared to gnome,
>> orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched,
>> espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and
>> friends are launched,
>> it's what debian uses on the net install image,
>> hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image?
>> unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non  gentoo
> system?
>> Majid
>>
>
> Hi Majid,
>I know nothing about accessibility systems but the meat of installing
> Gentoo is essentially just you executing a bunch of instructions inside of
> a chroot. You can start with any distro that currently provides
> accessibility for you, set aside some disk space, chroot into it and then
> do the Gentoo install work there. If the distro you start with can read
> what's going on in that terminal as well as the install instructions off
> the web pages for this task then I think you should be good to go.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Mark
>


-- 
kind regards,
Majid Hussain

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Kent Fredric]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 19:58:03 +0300
Consus  wrote:

> Github bot warns
> you that contributing new packages to the main repo is low priority and
> probably no one will help you,

Maybe that's a misinterpretation.

Gentoo workflow isn't oriented around Pull requests, Pull requests are
generally a mechanism used to allow users and other non-developers to
"assist".

People who are dev's generally don't use PR's for their work, although
there are a few exceptions to this because the PR facility allows for
various "pre-testing" and "I'm not the guy in charge of this, so I
better let the guy who is look at it first" situations.

And somewhat as a result, contributions via the PR mechanism *are* low
priority. Not because nobody is around to do it, but because either we
have more important things to do, *or*, sometimes there are things we
must do *before* handling PR's.

Sometimes even people filing bugs for "please update this" serves no
purpose, because we're probably already aware there's an update, its
just a matter of time constraints and priorities.

I would argue we're actually more on top of, and aware of, things that
need to be done than users might imagine. Its just largely invisible
because you have to go *looking* for it, and you have to actually
communicate with dev's to really see what's going on, because
sometimes, its all in their head.

Just the perception from a portage consumption point *may* look like a
thing is stagnated "because no recent changes".

If you were to look at portage, you might think no work is happening on
the rust front, beyond the language itself being there.

But lots of research and experimental work is happening on overlays,
working out how to do a thing right, before burdening users with it.

( And there's also the fact that properly reviewing a PR often requires
the same work investment to merely verify it, as if you were to do the
work yourself without a PR, which serves as a bit of a disincentive to
care about PRs )


pgpBzcxy8lluv.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,

[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:16 AM Majid Hussain 
wrote:
>
> hey there mark,
> you are ausom!
> it has cleared things up alot!
> on the chroot what doo I need?
> thanks,
> Majid Hussain
>
> On 22/04/2020, Mark Knecht  wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:45 AM Majid Hussain 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> hi there,
> >> now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible,
> >> compared to gnome,
> >> orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched,
> >> espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and
> >> friends are launched,
> >> it's what debian uses on the net install image,
> >> hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image?
> >> unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non  gentoo
> > system?
> >> Majid
> >>
> >
> > Hi Majid,
> >I know nothing about accessibility systems but the meat of installing
> > Gentoo is essentially just you executing a bunch of instructions inside
of
> > a chroot. You can start with any distro that currently provides
> > accessibility for you, set aside some disk space, chroot into it and
then
> > do the Gentoo install work there. If the distro you start with can read
> > what's going on in that terminal as well as the install instructions off
> > the web pages for this task then I think you should be good to go.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Mark
> >
>
>
> --
> kind regards,
> Majid Hussain

Hi Majid,
   Again, I know nothing at all about how you deal with these tasks with
blindness. A few things:

1) This list tends to a a bottom posting list. I don't think anyone is
going to give you much grief about top posting. I certainly won't.

2) Fundamentally you just need to follow the isntall guide located here:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64

Under the section "Installing Gentoo" there are a bunch of links. The first
5 are basically about getting a new box with no OS booting, setting up a
network, basic stuff. You should have all of that from any OS you boot. TO
BE CLEAR: you can do this on your existing system if it's Linux based and
you have disk space available to play with. You can do this in a Virtualbox
VM. There is NO requirement to use a new empty system. Find some disk space
and follow the "Preparing the disks" and "Installing the Gentoo
installation files" sections to map out the design of your system. Once
that is done the section "Installing the Gentoo Base system" is where you
chroot into what will eventually become your machine. At that point you are
running Gentoo inside the chroot. You just build it p following the
instructions.

I hope this helps a little. Once you get started youo can ask questions
here and I am certain you'll get responses. This is, for the 25 years I've
been using Linux, the most helpful place on the web for both Gentoo and
general Linux admin sorts of topics.

   Warm welcomes and best of luck. I'm excited to see how you do.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Tinderboxes?

[Michael Jones]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 04:46 Peter Humphrey  wrote:

> On Tuesday, 21 April 2020 23:36:21 BST Michael Jones wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:02 PM Gregory Rudolph  wrote:
> > > I would also offer up some computing power for that, on VMs, or
> physical
> > > hardware with different configurations. I'd like to be more involved
> with
> > > the Gentoo Development community, but time is rarely ever on my side.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best wishes, gentoo's not dead,
> >
> > Right, I'm sitting on several big-beefy x86_64 machines (They're older
> > machines, but they check out...) that typically are powered off.
> >
> > I would be happy to donate CPU cycles from one of them.
>
> Have you thought of contributing their power to BOINC projects? There's a
> wide
> choice.
>
> https://boinc.berkeley.edu/
>
> "BOINC is an open-source software platform for computing using volunteered
> resources."
>
> --
> Regards,
> Peter.
>


They don't have GPUs (headless servers) so the calculations they can manage
for boinc are going to be on the lower end. If it works similarly to
folding at home.

Not a bad suggestion. But at the moment I'm.more concerned with Gentoo QA

>

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

John Covici wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:53:24 -0400,
> Dale wrote:
>
>> I did a search on the forums for teamview but didn't find that problem. 
>> Did you perhaps install it without using portage at some point?  If not,
>> can you try to emerge it and post the failure here, a new thread might
>> be best.  I bet there is someone here who can fix it even if they don't
>> use that package.  Generally, a file collision for one package is
>> handled much like any other package.  It's been a long time and emerge
>> has changed a LOT but the last time I ran into this, I unmerged the
>> package and then re-emerged it.
>>
>> Sendmail.  I found this:
>>
>>
>> root@fireball / # cat
>> /var/cache/portage/tree/mail-mta/sendmail/metadata.xml
>> 
>> http://www.gentoo.org/dtd/metadata.dtd";>
>> 
>>     
>> 
>> root@fireball / #
>>
>>
>> It seems to be maintainer needed at the moment.  Most likely a dev
>> retired or was otherwise unable to maintain it any longer.  I'm not sure
>> who to contact to see if it can be nudged into action tho. You may can
>> talk to a dev, Rich is active on here, and see if he knows or is willing
>> to post on -dev about it needing attention.  Given its widespread use,
>> surely someone who uses it can step up and maintain it. 
>>
>> Ant-core is maintained by the java team.  I'm not sure what their status
>> is at the moment but since it still exists, I'm sure they are active. 
>> I've seen posts in the past that the java team is a bit slow, lots of
>> work and not enough time in the day.  Might just take a little time.
>>
> Here is the relevant section from teamviewer build:
>  * checking 102 files for package collisions
>   * This package will overwrite one or more files that may belong to
>   other
>* packages (see list below). You can use a command such as
>`portageq
> * owners / ` to identify the installed package that owns
> a
>  * file. If portageq reports that only one package owns a file
>   then do
>* NOT file a bug report. A bug report is only useful if it
>identifies at
> * least two or more packages that are known to install the same
> file(s).
>  * If a collision occurs and you can not explain where the file
>  came from
>   * then you should simply ignore the collision since there is
>   not enough
>* information to determine if a real problem exists. Please
>   do NOT file
>* a bug report at https://bugs.gentoo.org/ unless you
>report exactly
> * which two packages install the same file(s). See
>  * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Knowledge_Base:Blockers
>  for tips on how
>   * to solve the problem. And once again, please do NOT
>   file a bug report
>* unless you have completely understood the above
>   message.
>*
> * Detected file collision(s):
>  *
>   *   
> /usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.service
>*   
> /usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.Desktop.service
>*   
> /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.policy
> *   
> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/24x24/apps/TeamViewer.png
>  *   
> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/TeamViewer.png
>   *
>*   
> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/apps/TeamViewer.png
>*   
> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/TeamViewer.png
> *   
> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/256x256/apps/TeamViewer.png
>  *   /lib/systemd/system/teamviewerd.service
>   *   /opt/bin/teamviewer
>*   /opt/bin/teamviewerd
>*
> * Searching all installed packages 
> for file
>  collisions...
>*
>* Press Ctrl-C to Stop
> *
>  * 
> net-misc/teamviewer-14.7.1965:14::gentoo
>   *   
> /lib/systemd/system/teamviewerd.service
>*   /opt/bin/teamviewer
>*   
> /opt/bin/teamviewerd
> *   
> /usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.Desktop.service
>  *
>   

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[John Covici]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:04:24 -0400,
Dale wrote:
> 
> [1  ]
> John Covici wrote:
> > On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:53:24 -0400,
> > Dale wrote:
> >
> >> I did a search on the forums for teamview but didn't find that problem. 
> >> Did you perhaps install it without using portage at some point?  If not,
> >> can you try to emerge it and post the failure here, a new thread might
> >> be best.  I bet there is someone here who can fix it even if they don't
> >> use that package.  Generally, a file collision for one package is
> >> handled much like any other package.  It's been a long time and emerge
> >> has changed a LOT but the last time I ran into this, I unmerged the
> >> package and then re-emerged it.
> >>
> >> Sendmail.  I found this:
> >>
> >>
> >> root@fireball / # cat
> >> /var/cache/portage/tree/mail-mta/sendmail/metadata.xml
> >> 
> >> http://www.gentoo.org/dtd/metadata.dtd";>
> >> 
> >>     
> >> 
> >> root@fireball / #
> >>
> >>
> >> It seems to be maintainer needed at the moment.  Most likely a dev
> >> retired or was otherwise unable to maintain it any longer.  I'm not sure
> >> who to contact to see if it can be nudged into action tho. You may can
> >> talk to a dev, Rich is active on here, and see if he knows or is willing
> >> to post on -dev about it needing attention.  Given its widespread use,
> >> surely someone who uses it can step up and maintain it. 
> >>
> >> Ant-core is maintained by the java team.  I'm not sure what their status
> >> is at the moment but since it still exists, I'm sure they are active. 
> >> I've seen posts in the past that the java team is a bit slow, lots of
> >> work and not enough time in the day.  Might just take a little time.
> >>
> > Here is the relevant section from teamviewer build:
> >  * checking 102 files for package collisions
> >   * This package will overwrite one or more files that may belong to
> >   other
> >* packages (see list below). You can use a command such as
> >`portageq
> > * owners / ` to identify the installed package that owns
> > a
> >  * file. If portageq reports that only one package owns a file
> > then do
> >  * NOT file a bug report. A bug report is only useful if it
> >  identifies at
> >   * least two or more packages that are known to install the same
> >   file(s).
> >* If a collision occurs and you can not explain where the file
> >came from
> > * then you should simply ignore the collision since there is
> > not enough
> >  * information to determine if a real problem exists. Please
> > do NOT file
> >  * a bug report at https://bugs.gentoo.org/ unless you
> >  report exactly
> >   * which two packages install the same file(s). See
> >* https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Knowledge_Base:Blockers
> >for tips on how
> > * to solve the problem. And once again, please do NOT
> > file a bug report
> >  * unless you have completely understood the above
> > message.
> >  *
> >   * Detected file collision(s):
> >*
> > *   
> > /usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.service
> >  *   
> > /usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.Desktop.service
> >  *   
> > /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.policy
> >   *   
> > /usr/share/icons/hicolor/24x24/apps/TeamViewer.png
> >*   
> > /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/TeamViewer.png
> > *
> >  *   
> > /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/apps/TeamViewer.png
> >  *   
> > /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/TeamViewer.png
> >   *   
> > /usr/share/icons/hicolor/256x256/apps/TeamViewer.png
> >*   /lib/systemd/system/teamviewerd.service
> > *   /opt/bin/teamviewer
> >  *   /opt/bin/teamviewerd
> >  *
> >   * Searching all installed packages 
> > for file
> >  collisions...
> >  *
> >  * Press Ctrl-C to Stop
> >   *
> >* 
> > net-misc/teamviewer-14.7.1965:14::gentoo
> > *   
> > /lib/systemd/system/teamviewerd.service
> >  *   /opt/bin/teamviewer
> >  *   
> > /opt/bin/teamviewerd
> > 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Jack]

On 4/22/20 11:20 AM, John Covici wrote:

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:04:24 -0400,
Dale wrote:

[1  ]
John Covici wrote:

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:53:24 -0400,
Dale wrote:


I did a search on the forums for teamview but didn't find that problem.
Did you perhaps install it without using portage at some point?  If not,
can you try to emerge it and post the failure here, a new thread might
be best.  I bet there is someone here who can fix it even if they don't
use that package.  Generally, a file collision for one package is
handled much like any other package.  It's been a long time and emerge
has changed a LOT but the last time I ran into this, I unmerged the
package and then re-emerged it.

Sendmail.  I found this:


root@fireball / # cat
/var/cache/portage/tree/mail-mta/sendmail/metadata.xml

http://www.gentoo.org/dtd/metadata.dtd";>

     

root@fireball / #


It seems to be maintainer needed at the moment.  Most likely a dev
retired or was otherwise unable to maintain it any longer.  I'm not sure
who to contact to see if it can be nudged into action tho. You may can
talk to a dev, Rich is active on here, and see if he knows or is willing
to post on -dev about it needing attention.  Given its widespread use,
surely someone who uses it can step up and maintain it.

Ant-core is maintained by the java team.  I'm not sure what their status
is at the moment but since it still exists, I'm sure they are active.
I've seen posts in the past that the java team is a bit slow, lots of
work and not enough time in the day.  Might just take a little time.


Here is the relevant section from teamviewer build:
  * checking 102 files for package collisions
   * This package will overwrite one or more files that may belong to
   other
* packages (see list below). You can use a command such as
`portageq
 * owners / ` to identify the installed package that owns
 a
  * file. If portageq reports that only one package owns a file
then do
 * NOT file a bug report. A bug report is only useful if it
 identifies at
  * least two or more packages that are known to install the same
  file(s).
   * If a collision occurs and you can not explain where the file
   came from
* then you should simply ignore the collision since there is
not enough
 * information to determine if a real problem exists. Please
do NOT file
 * a bug report at https://bugs.gentoo.org/ unless you
 report exactly
  * which two packages install the same file(s). See
   * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Knowledge_Base:Blockers
   for tips on how
* to solve the problem. And once again, please do NOT
file a bug report
 * unless you have completely understood the above
message.
 *
  * Detected file collision(s):
   *
*   
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.service
 *   
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.Desktop.service
 *   
/usr/share/polkit-1/actions/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.policy
  *   
/usr/share/icons/hicolor/24x24/apps/TeamViewer.png
   *   
/usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/TeamViewer.png
*
 *   
/usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/apps/TeamViewer.png
 *   
/usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/TeamViewer.png
  *   
/usr/share/icons/hicolor/256x256/apps/TeamViewer.png
   *   /lib/systemd/system/teamviewerd.service
*   /opt/bin/teamviewer
 *   /opt/bin/teamviewerd
 *
  * Searching all installed packages 
for file
  collisions...
 *
 * Press Ctrl-C to Stop
  *
   * 
net-misc/teamviewer-14.7.1965:14::gentoo
*   
/lib/systemd/system/teamviewerd.service
 *   /opt/bin/teamviewer
 *   
/opt/bin/teamviewerd
  *   
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.Desktop.service
   *
*   
/usr/sha

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,

[John Covici]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 10:32:12 -0400,
Mark Knecht wrote:
> 
> [1  ]
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:16 AM Majid Hussain 
> wrote:
> >
> > hey there mark,
> > you are ausom!
> > it has cleared things up alot!
> > on the chroot what doo I need?
> > thanks,
> > Majid Hussain
> >
> > On 22/04/2020, Mark Knecht  wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:45 AM Majid Hussain 
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> hi there,
> > >> now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible,
> > >> compared to gnome,
> > >> orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched,
> > >> espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and
> > >> friends are launched,
> > >> it's what debian uses on the net install image,
> > >> hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image?
> > >> unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non  gentoo
> > > system?
> > >> Majid
> > >>
> > >
> > > Hi Majid,
> > >I know nothing about accessibility systems but the meat of installing
> > > Gentoo is essentially just you executing a bunch of instructions inside
> of
> > > a chroot. You can start with any distro that currently provides
> > > accessibility for you, set aside some disk space, chroot into it and
> then
> > > do the Gentoo install work there. If the distro you start with can read
> > > what's going on in that terminal as well as the install instructions off
> > > the web pages for this task then I think you should be good to go.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps,
> > > Mark
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > kind regards,
> > Majid Hussain
> 
> Hi Majid,
>Again, I know nothing at all about how you deal with these tasks with
> blindness. A few things:
> 
> 1) This list tends to a a bottom posting list. I don't think anyone is
> going to give you much grief about top posting. I certainly won't.
> 
> 2) Fundamentally you just need to follow the isntall guide located here:
> 
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64
> 
> Under the section "Installing Gentoo" there are a bunch of links. The first
> 5 are basically about getting a new box with no OS booting, setting up a
> network, basic stuff. You should have all of that from any OS you boot. TO
> BE CLEAR: you can do this on your existing system if it's Linux based and
> you have disk space available to play with. You can do this in a Virtualbox
> VM. There is NO requirement to use a new empty system. Find some disk space
> and follow the "Preparing the disks" and "Installing the Gentoo
> installation files" sections to map out the design of your system. Once
> that is done the section "Installing the Gentoo Base system" is where you
> chroot into what will eventually become your machine. At that point you are
> running Gentoo inside the chroot. You just build it p following the
> instructions.
> 
> I hope this helps a little. Once you get started youo can ask questions
> here and I am certain you'll get responses. This is, for the 25 years I've
> been using Linux, the most helpful place on the web for both Gentoo and
> general Linux admin sorts of topics.
> 
>Warm welcomes and best of luck. I'm excited to see how you do.

I use gentoo with speakup (with a hardware synth) gnome and orca all
the time and it works well.  I compile my kernels and have speakup
built in so that I can get the earliest possible speech, but you may
not want to do this.  My system is more complicated since I use zfs,
but that is the great thing about gentoo, you get lots of choices.
So, if you like mate,  you can use that, if you like gnome you can use
that, etc.  Gnome requires you to use systemd, so be warned.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 11:22 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:01 PM, Consus  wrote:
> 
>> Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage.
> 
> patching P*E is heretic, and forking it is
> outright blasphemous.
> 

For everyone complaining about how long emerge @world takes, and about
the incomprehensible error messages -- this fork was a step towards
fixing that. Portage does some slow, unpredictable, undocumented magic
when resolving dependencies that it never should have done in the first
place. Developers using portage then make commits that appear to work
with portage, but won't work in any other PMS-compliant package manager,
and often don't work in portage itself when given slightly different
command-line options.

Portage was forked because the current maintainers insist on leaving it
broken to "avoid the phone calls." There are still problems, but this
way people don't realize they're portage's fault.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Caveman Al Toraboran]

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:01 PM, Consus  wrote:

> Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage.

patching P*E is heretic, and forking it is
outright blasphemous.

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,

[Ashley Dixon]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:30:01AM -0400, John Covici wrote:
> Gnome requires you to use systemd, so be warned.

Small addendum: GNOME, from version  3.3,  can,  technically,  be  used  without
systemd. See [1] and [2].

[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GNOME/GNOME_Without_systemd/Gentoo
[2] https://github.com/dantrell/gentoo-project-gnome-without-systemd

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

2A9A 4117
DA96 D18A
8A7B B0D2
A30E BF25
F290 A8AA



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[John Covici]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:26:20 -0400,
Jack wrote:
> 
> 
> On 4/22/20 11:20 AM, John Covici wrote:
> > On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:04:24 -0400,
> > Dale wrote:
> >> [1  ]
> >> John Covici wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:53:24 -0400,
> >>> Dale wrote:
> >>> 
>  I did a search on the forums for teamview but didn't find that problem.
>  Did you perhaps install it without using portage at some point?  If not,
>  can you try to emerge it and post the failure here, a new thread might
>  be best.  I bet there is someone here who can fix it even if they don't
>  use that package.  Generally, a file collision for one package is
>  handled much like any other package.  It's been a long time and emerge
>  has changed a LOT but the last time I ran into this, I unmerged the
>  package and then re-emerged it.
>  
>  Sendmail.  I found this:
>  
>  
>  root@fireball / # cat
>  /var/cache/portage/tree/mail-mta/sendmail/metadata.xml
>  
>  http://www.gentoo.org/dtd/metadata.dtd";>
>  
>       
>  
>  root@fireball / #
>  
>  
>  It seems to be maintainer needed at the moment.  Most likely a dev
>  retired or was otherwise unable to maintain it any longer.  I'm not sure
>  who to contact to see if it can be nudged into action tho. You may can
>  talk to a dev, Rich is active on here, and see if he knows or is willing
>  to post on -dev about it needing attention.  Given its widespread use,
>  surely someone who uses it can step up and maintain it.
>  
>  Ant-core is maintained by the java team.  I'm not sure what their status
>  is at the moment but since it still exists, I'm sure they are active.
>  I've seen posts in the past that the java team is a bit slow, lots of
>  work and not enough time in the day.  Might just take a little time.
>  
> >>> Here is the relevant section from teamviewer build:
> >>>   * checking 102 files for package collisions
> >>>* This package will overwrite one or more files that may belong to
> >>>other
> >>> * packages (see list below). You can use a command such as
> >>> `portageq
> >>>  * owners / ` to identify the installed package that owns
> >>>  a
> >>>   * file. If portageq reports that only one package owns a file
> >>>   then do
> >>>* NOT file a bug report. A bug report is only useful if it
> >>>identifies at
> >>> * least two or more packages that are known to install the same
> >>> file(s).
> >>>  * If a collision occurs and you can not explain where the file
> >>>  came from
> >>>   * then you should simply ignore the collision since there is
> >>>   not enough
> >>>* information to determine if a real problem exists. Please
> >>>   do NOT file
> >>>* a bug report at https://bugs.gentoo.org/ unless you
> >>>report exactly
> >>> * which two packages install the same file(s). See
> >>>  * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Knowledge_Base:Blockers
> >>>  for tips on how
> >>>   * to solve the problem. And once again, please do NOT
> >>>   file a bug report
> >>>* unless you have completely understood the above
> >>>   message.
> >>>*
> >>> * Detected file collision(s):
> >>>  *
> >>>   *   
> >>> /usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.service
> >>>*   
> >>> /usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.Desktop.service
> >>>*   
> >>> /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/com.teamviewer.TeamViewer.policy
> >>> *   
> >>> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/24x24/apps/TeamViewer.png
> >>>  *   
> >>> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/TeamViewer.png
> >>>   *
> >>>*   
> >>> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/apps/TeamViewer.png
> >>>*   
> >>> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/TeamViewer.png
> >>> *   
> >>> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/256x256/apps/TeamViewer.png
> >>>  *   /lib/systemd/system/teamviewerd.service
> >>>   *   /opt/bin/teamviewer
> >>>*   /opt/bin/teamviewerd
> >>>*
> >>> * Searching all installed packages 
> >>> for file
> >>>   collisions...
> >>>*
> >>>* Press Ctrl-C to Stop
> >>> *
> >>>  * 
> >>> net-misc/teamviewer-14.7.1965:14::gentoo
> >>>   *   
> >>> /lib/syste

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 11:58 AM, John Covici wrote:
> 
> Yes, portage agrees with that statement, maybe I didn't give you the
> whole log, I thought it said that in there -- I did see that, I am
> sure.  My question is how does this work normally, when you merge a
> package and update is this not always the case that there are files
> owned by the previous version on the system?
> 

Yeah, but the package manager knows which files are owned by the version
being replaced and it doesn't complain about those.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: best rss reader?

[Caveman Al Toraboran]

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 3:44 AM, Ian Zimmerman  
wrote:

> Really? Masked as in package.mask? When? I don't see that.
> I use it too, and it is better than the alternatives IMO.

i'm on ~amd, is this related to why you don't see
it?

from `/var/db/repos/gentoo/profiles/package.mask`:

```
# Michał Górny  (2020-04-19)
# Both packages are unmaintained and have unresolved bugs.  stfl
# is stuck on Python 3.6 and newsboat is its only revdep.
# Removal in 30 days.  Bug #718286.
dev-libs/stfl
net-news/newsboat
```

i highly appreciate mgorny's work though.  thanks
to him, now i'm aware of the shortcomings, and
looks like i'm now headed to get me a better rss
reader.

also thanks to those who helped me in this thread.
highly appreciated.  i'm now trying your ideas,
and very optimistic i'll find a better rss reader
setup.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 12:07 PM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:
> 
> i was joking.  i agree with you + mgorny.

I got that =)


> in fact, i think portage sucks so much it must be
> rewritten from scratch, in such a way that it has
> least run-time dependencies, so we stop worrying
> about upgrading other packages, such as python.
> 

sys-apps/pkgcore is a rewrite from scratch, although still in python. It
follows the PMS, but is unusable -- as any other rewrite would be --
because developers regularly commit things that only work in portage.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 04:07:52PM +, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:
> in fact, i think portage sucks so much it must be
> rewritten from scratch, in such a way that it has
> least run-time dependencies, so we stop worrying
> about upgrading other packages, such as python.

  Yes. And yes again :-). +1
  portage must be in C and statically linked.
  python is a strange dependency.

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Problem understanding "eix"

[james]

On 4/22/20 6:41 AM, Dr Rainer Woitok wrote:

Martin,

On Tuesday, 2020-04-21 18:02:37 -, you wrote:


...
DEFAULT_ARCH is normally not used, because it should be set in
the profile. Does
   eix --print ARCH
also show amd64?


BINGO!  No, it doesn't:

$ eix --print ARCH
x86_64
$

And that rings a bell: for historical reasons my "~/.profile" initializ-
ation script contains the line

export ARCH=$(arch || uname -m) 2> /dev/null

which helped me  getting my  personal environment right  on every of the
computing center's zillions of hosts I had to login in my previous life.

Thankyou so much for hunting this down for me :-)

But unsetting ARCH  or setting it to amd64  doesn't change things, prob-
ably because  the wrong value meanwhile  is part of the database used by
"eix".  Will it suffice to run "eix-update" with "ARCH" being unset?


...

app-crypt/tpm2-tss  2.2.3-r21 1
app-crypt/tpm2-tss  2.3.3   1 1


This is strange: Both versions are only ~amd64, and in your previous
posting the output for {isstable} was indeed 0.


No.  It was only 0 in the output of the "installedversions" call, where-
as the lines quoted above  originated from the "availableversions" call.
And the problem is  that "{isstable}"  and "{isunstable}"  must not be 1
at the same time, even if ARCH is erroneously set to "x86_64".

So this might finally be a bug in "eix" ...

Sincerely,
   Rainer



Hello Rainer,
'
I'd install and check out the latest version of 'eix' (0.33.11) on my 
sytems; but I have not updated in over a week. Often bugs are fix and 
the fix is first available in the latest version of the (gentoo) 
package. If no fix, then file a bug; or at least that's how I roll.


Not a recommendation, just what "I" do.

try 'eix -R eix'

hth,
James

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 12:14 PM, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 04:07:52PM +, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:
>> in fact, i think portage sucks so much it must be
>> rewritten from scratch, in such a way that it has
>> least run-time dependencies, so we stop worrying
>> about upgrading other packages, such as python.
> 
>   Yes. And yes again :-). +1
>   portage must be in C and statically linked.
>   python is a strange dependency.
> 


Paludis was a C++ package manager, but is dead now. No one's willing to
work on these things when ::gentoo is portage-only.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Alessandro Barbieri]

Nothing should be statically linked, please stop spreading the disease.

Il Mer 22 Apr 2020, 18:14  ha scritto:

> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 04:07:52PM +, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:
> > in fact, i think portage sucks so much it must be
> > rewritten from scratch, in such a way that it has
> > least run-time dependencies, so we stop worrying
> > about upgrading other packages, such as python.
>
>   Yes. And yes again :-). +1
>   portage must be in C and statically linked.
>   python is a strange dependency.
>
> --
> Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Caveman Al Toraboran]

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:35 PM, Michael Orlitzky  wrote:

> On 4/22/20 11:22 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:01 PM, Consus con...@ftml.net wrote:
> >
> > > Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage.
> >
> > patching P*E is heretic, and forking it is
> > outright blasphemous.
>
> For everyone complaining about how long emerge @world takes, and about
> the incomprehensible error messages -- this fork was a step towards
> fixing that. Portage does some slow, unpredictable, undocumented magic
> when resolving dependencies that it never should have done in the first
> place. Developers using portage then make commits that appear to work
> with portage, but won't work in any other PMS-compliant package manager,
> and often don't work in portage itself when given slightly different
> command-line options.
>
> Portage was forked because the current maintainers insist on leaving it
> broken to "avoid the phone calls." There are still problems, but this
> way people don't realize they're portage's fault.

i was joking.  i agree with you + mgorny.

in fact, i think portage sucks so much it must be
rewritten from scratch, in such a way that it has
least run-time dependencies, so we stop worrying
about upgrading other packages, such as python.

e.g. perhaps gne (gne is not emerge) should better
be statically linked (no stupid python run-time
that freaks us every time we upgrade python).

just my thought.  but mgorny knows much better
than me most likely.  i like his work.  and i hope
politics around emerge/portage gets dropped.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Jones]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:18 AM Alessandro Barbieri <
lssndrbarbi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nothing should be statically linked, please stop spreading the disease.
>

On a source-based distribution, the thing that manages package
installations can break itself if it incorrectly installs a library that a
subsequent run of itself would dynamically link against.

There are plenty of valid use-cases for statically linked binaries. One
such use case is that the C++ standard doesn't acknowledge the existence of
dynamic linking in the first place. (It doesn't say it's invalid, just the
standard doesn't address the concept one way or another, implicitly
assuming static linking).

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 06:17:52PM +0200, Alessandro Barbieri wrote:
> Nothing should be statically linked, please stop spreading the disease.

  You are wrong ;-).

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[james]

On 4/21/20 12:58 PM, Consus wrote:

Hi,

In all honesty, is Gentoo dead? Gentoo-Dev is filled with passive
aggression (though being developers-only mailing list), Github bot warns
you that contributing new packages to the main repo is low priority and
probably no one will help you, and even distribution kernel is not an
official thing, but a desperate attempt of someone to fix things.




With all respect, you are clueless, but trying to be polite. If your 
assessment was correct, then answer these questions, OK?


Why would the actual author of one of the hottest codes in the world, 
wireguard, be that actual maintainer on gentoo?



Gentoo spawns CoreOS(smarty pants CTO) and long time gentooer. CoreOS 
purchase by Redhat, to give them a future and IBM purchasing Redhat, 
just to get legal rights to the gentoo heritage?



Greg X, is one of THE chief gentoo kernel devs, and still loves and uses 
Gentoo.?



You are among GREATNESS in the computational world. I could list 
hundreds of the world's top technologies in a wide variety of fields, 
that have and still use Gentoo.

Like the worlds number one RF designer; but I wont.


You are fucking lazy. READ as the entire history and tree(s) are there. 
BUT, first do a deep dive on C, although not currently popular, before 
making such stupid statements. PLEASE.



Also, find me a linux distro rigorously supports (and engourages) both 
systemd, OpenRC and systems without either?   Can you name one.



Gentoo is for experts, and those that aspire, through many years of hard 
work, to become C/unix/kernel/any-code type of experts.


YOU, making this statement, are just LAZY!

get real,
James Horton, PE

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:18 PM Alessandro Barbieri
 wrote:
>
> Nothing should be statically linked, please stop spreading the disease.
>

Gee, maybe the musl project should commit suicide? If at least they
had read the vulgata consciously before starting the project...

> Il Mer 22 Apr 2020, 18:14  ha scritto:

>>   portage must be in C and statically linked.
>>   python is a strange dependency.
>>

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 12:24 PM, Michael Jones wrote:
> 
> On a source-based distribution, the thing that manages package
> installations can break itself if it incorrectly installs a library that
> a subsequent run of itself would dynamically link against.
> 

I won't say this is impossible, but in general it hasn't been true for a
long time in Gentoo. Old libraries are left behind until you rebuild the
things that link against them (that's what emerge @preserved-rebuild
does). When used correctly, subslot dependencies in ebuilds avoid the
need for even that additional step.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 12:16:20PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 4/22/20 12:14 PM, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
> >   Yes. And yes again :-). +1
> >   portage must be in C and statically linked.
> >   python is a strange dependency.
> 
> Paludis was a C++ package manager, but is dead now. No one's willing to
> work on these things when ::gentoo is portage-only.

  No-no. C++ is a nightmare. A few people want to use it.


-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Jones]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:28 AM Michael Orlitzky  wrote:

> I won't say this is impossible, but in general it hasn't been true for a
> long time in Gentoo. Old libraries are left behind until you rebuild the
> things that link against them (that's what emerge @preserved-rebuild
> does). When used correctly, subslot dependencies in ebuilds avoid the
> need for even that additional step.
>
>
Right. Gentoo has safeguards in place already. Static-linking is only one
tool in a large toolbox, and given Portage is a python program, it's not
applicable to this situation.

I was referring to the case of some hypothetical package manager built with
C/C++. In that situation, staticly linking the package manager would
provide one aspect of defense against self-breakage.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Jones]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:30 AM  wrote:

>
>   No-no. C++ is a nightmare. A few people want to use it.
>

C++ is an extremely widespread language with millions of lines of code
written daily world wide.

Lots of people want to use it. Just not people who want to write a PMS
compliant package manager.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:32:49AM -0500, Michael Jones wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:30 AM  wrote:
> >   No-no. C++ is a nightmare. A few people want to use it.
> 
> C++ is an extremely widespread language with millions of lines of code
> written daily world wide.

  C is more widespread, than C++.
  C++ is unneededly complex and for such core thing like a portage
C would be better. C code is simpler and robust. More people know it.
More people can send patches. Etc.

> Lots of people want to use it. Just not people who want to write a PMS
> compliant package manager.

  No problem. They can use it outside portage :-).

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Jones]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:47 AM  wrote:

>   C is more widespread, than C++.
>

Yes, this is true.


> C++ is unneededly complex and for such core thing like a portage
> C would be better. C code is simpler and robust. More people know it.
> More people can send patches. Etc.
>

I disagree to the fullest, most intense, way possible.

Nevertheless, this subject is way off topic for this list, so I'll just say
we can agree to disagree, and not engage in the subject on-list any further.

I'd be happy to discuss the subject with anyone who wants to contact me
privately, however.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 4/22/20 11:58 AM, John Covici wrote:
>> Yes, portage agrees with that statement, maybe I didn't give you the
>> whole log, I thought it said that in there -- I did see that, I am
>> sure.  My question is how does this work normally, when you merge a
>> package and update is this not always the case that there are files
>> owned by the previous version on the system?
>>
> Yeah, but the package manager knows which files are owned by the version
> being replaced and it doesn't complain about those.
>
>


Correct.  OP, a little more detail, someone correct me if I'm not clear
enough here.  If you install abc-1 with one set of files but the package
is slotted and abc-2 is installed, portage knows what files are where
and what version of the package they belong too.  Thing is, this is
different.  Portage/emerge thinks those file belong to another package. 
Whether it is a different version or a package with a different name
doesn't matter.  Portage keeps a database of every file it installs and
what package it belongs to, including version if slotted.  When there is
a clash, emerge detects that and spits out the message you see.

If you are certain that those files should be replaced and do not affect
other packages, I'd either disable the protection with the FEATURES
thingy or manually remove those files.  Once you do that,
update/re-emerge the package and test it. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2020-04-22 13:28, Ashley Dixon wrote:

> This is the ONE situation under which I would recommend GNOME, as it
> is generally the best with built-in accessibility features [3].

I don't know about that.  Mouse Keys was broken for at least 2 Fedora
releases (it would do the moves but not the clicks) and my bug about
that was handled in the typical GNOME/Fedora fashion, ie. ignored until
they could close it with reference to the next version.

> lot of the more niche W.M.s (such as i3) require an incredible amount
> of tinkering (and often changes to the code-base) to introduce any
> sort of considering for accessibility.

Maybe wrt visual handicaps you are right, but wrt keyboard access to
everything that "normal" users do with the mouse, I violently disagree.
I use bspwm now and it is the _very best_ interface I ever had, freeing
me from the authoritarian rodent for hours at a time.

-- 
Ian

Re: [gentoo-user] new hd: Security / hdparm / differences

[Michael]

On Wednesday, 22 April 2020 13:34:10 BST tu...@posteo.de wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In my system there is a 3T Winchester digital blue
> 
>   Model Number:   WDC WD30EZRZ-00GXCB0
> Firmware Revision:  80.00A80
> 
> 
> I bougth a second one for backyp purposes
> 
>   Model Number:   WDC WD30EZRZ-00Z5HB0
>   Firmware Revision:  80.00A80
> 
> Looks pretty simiiar to me...
> 
> The first one is in use for a month or so, I received
> the second one just two hours ago.
> 
> I want to disable the security feature and the spindown-if-idle
> feature of the second drive as I did with the first.
> 
> First step was to compare the output of 'hdparm -I ' of the
> first with that of the second one.
> 
> Differences ( I will skip identical parts ):
> 
> First:
> Standards:
>   Used: unknown (minor revision code 0x006d)
>   Supported: 10 9 8 7 6 5
>   Likely used: 10
> 
> Second:
> Standards:
>   Supported: 9 8 7 6 5
>   Likely used: 9
> 
> 
> 
> First:
> Formfactor 3.5inch
> 
> Second:
> Not mentioned
> 
> First
> Commands/features:
>   Enabled Supported:
>  *DMA Setup Auto-Activate optimization
>   Device-initiated interface power management
>  *Software settings preservation
>   unknown 206[12] (vendor specific)
>   unknown 206[13] (vendor specific)
>  *DOWNLOAD MICROCODE DMA command
>  *WRITE BUFFER DMA command
>  *READ BUFFER DMA command
> 
> Second:
> Commands/features:
>   Enabled Supported:
>   DMA Setup Auto-Activate optimization
>  *SCT Write Same (AC2)
>  *SCT Features Control (AC4)
>  *SCT Data Tables (AC5)
>   unknown 206[12] (vendor specific)
>   unknown 206[13] (vendor specific)
>   unknown 206[14] (vendor specific)
> 
> 
> 
> "DMA Setup Ayto-Activate optimization" is enable for the first drive,
> for second one it is not. The section about this feature in the
> manpage says "use with extreme caytion" and I cannot decide, whether
> that what is written there is still valid or some sort of cry
> from the past.
> 
> I am unsure about to think about these differences...?
> 
> The second thing are the security settings. I want drives with no
> security settings and no way to manipulate them without user
> interaction. I want these settings stored in the drive instead
> of setting them at each boot since the second drive will be
> temporarily used in a docking station "past boot".
> 
> The current security settings for both drives are:
>   not enabled
>   not locked
>   frozen
>   not expired: security count
>   supported: enhanced erase
> 
> (I have frozen the settings for the second drive just a minute ago and
> it will forget the settings (going "not frozen" then) as soon I switch
> the docking station off and on again.)
> 
> If I remember correctly I did this for the frsit drive with:
> freeze security setting
> lock security settings
> 
> and I did this without using any password.
> 
> On the second drive "freeze" works as exspected, but "lock"
> wants a password.
> 
> After startpageing for a while I found a site with "Master passwords
> for some drives"...and I am unsure of what I have found there
> (reliability-wise ... it was not via the TOR network, though... ;)
> 
> Currently there are no data on the second drive. So accidentally
> wiping it off doesn't matter as long the drive remains intact.
> 
> I would prefer to have both drives in the same state.
> I didn't changed any DMA-related settings for the first drive by the
> way.
> 
> How should I handle the DMA differences between the frist and the
> second drive?
> 
> How can I handle the security issue with the second drive?
> 
> Cheers!
> Meino

Is the second drive connected to the same bus controller?  If on a USB docking 
station hdparm may or may not be able to do what you want - have a look here:

https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[John Covici]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:03:39 -0400,
Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> 
> On 4/22/20 11:58 AM, John Covici wrote:
> > 
> > Yes, portage agrees with that statement, maybe I didn't give you the
> > whole log, I thought it said that in there -- I did see that, I am
> > sure.  My question is how does this work normally, when you merge a
> > package and update is this not always the case that there are files
> > owned by the previous version on the system?
> > 
> 
> Yeah, but the package manager knows which files are owned by the version
> being replaced and it doesn't complain about those.

That makes no sense to me -- portage itself says those files are owned
by 14.7.1965(14) so if its telling me that why does it not just
replace those files?

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 4/22/20 11:22 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:01 PM, Consus  wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage.
>> patching P*E is heretic, and forking it is
>> outright blasphemous.
>>
> For everyone complaining about how long emerge @world takes, and about
> the incomprehensible error messages -- this fork was a step towards
> fixing that. Portage does some slow, unpredictable, undocumented magic
> when resolving dependencies that it never should have done in the first
> place. Developers using portage then make commits that appear to work
> with portage, but won't work in any other PMS-compliant package manager,
> and often don't work in portage itself when given slightly different
> command-line options.
>
> Portage was forked because the current maintainers insist on leaving it
> broken to "avoid the phone calls." There are still problems, but this
> way people don't realize they're portage's fault.
>
>


Some may recall my thread about emerge only using one core when doing
it's build list.  As was discussed in that thread, it would be really
difficult to build that list in pretty much any language because it just
isn't set up to do that, the tree itself it seems.  While I'd like
emerge to be able to use more than one core, it may be faster but it
might also fall more often to which would waste more time than using
multiple cores would save.  In other words, a lot of work with little or
no benefit.

Didn't Firefox do this a couple years ago?  Start basically from scratch
and start over with new code?  I seem to recall them doing that so it
could use more than one core and other things.  It lead to all the
add-ons being redone as well.  I recall a lot of fussing about that. 

While it would be nice, could it even be done?  Would it be easier to
just start over with a new tree, new emerge/portage commands and all? 
Bigger question, who's the person with idiot stamped on their forehead
that would be willing to do all that without knowing it would even
work?  ROFL 

These Gentoo dead threads get interesting pretty fast. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 1:19 PM, John Covici wrote:
> 
> That makes no sense to me -- portage itself says those files are owned
> by 14.7.1965(14) so if its telling me that why does it not just
> replace those files?
> 

Aha, you're not doing anything wrong. The old 14.7.x version was slotted:

https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/diff/net-misc/teamviewer/teamviewer-14.7.1965.ebuild?id=2766d49e7c040d373685775a4515967cd0f1b33e

The new ones aren't (they're all SLOT=0). But the new ones install to
the same place as the old 14.7.x versions. Since slotted packages aren't
supposed to conflict, it's complaining that SLOT=0 and SLOT=14.7 (or
whatever it was) are trying to install to the same place.

I guess the developer never noticed the problem because he was on a
faster upgrade schedule. You can fix it by uninstalling the old version
manually, and then installing the new one.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 1:29 PM, Dale wrote:
> 
> Some may recall my thread about emerge only using one core when doing
> it's build list.  As was discussed in that thread, it would be really
> difficult to build that list in pretty much any language because it just
> isn't set up to do that, the tree itself it seems.  While I'd like
> emerge to be able to use more than one core, it may be faster but it
> might also fall more often to which would waste more time than using
> multiple cores would save.  In other words, a lot of work with little or
> no benefit.
> 

Dependency resolution is indeed a (formally) hard problem. Solving the
traveling salesman problem is also hard. Solving the traveling salesman
problem while being punched in the face is even harder. When I complain
about portage being slow, what I mean is that I want to stop being
punched in the face so that I can concentrate all of my energy on the
underlying hard problem.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Alessandro Barbieri]

Whatever, but QA is by my side and I'm helping removing static libraries
from gentoo packages.

https://projects.gentoo.org/qa/policy-guide/installed-files.html?highlight=static#pg0302
Also more context here:
https://flameeyes.blog/2011/08/29/useless-flag-static-libs/
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/2dada80c2b9c85b0e83e6328428bf8ab

Il Mer 22 Apr 2020, 18:25  ha scritto:

> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 06:17:52PM +0200, Alessandro Barbieri wrote:
> > Nothing should be statically linked, please stop spreading the disease.
>
>   You are wrong ;-).
>
> --
> Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 4/22/20 1:29 PM, Dale wrote:
>> Some may recall my thread about emerge only using one core when doing
>> it's build list.  As was discussed in that thread, it would be really
>> difficult to build that list in pretty much any language because it just
>> isn't set up to do that, the tree itself it seems.  While I'd like
>> emerge to be able to use more than one core, it may be faster but it
>> might also fall more often to which would waste more time than using
>> multiple cores would save.  In other words, a lot of work with little or
>> no benefit.
>>
> Dependency resolution is indeed a (formally) hard problem. Solving the
> traveling salesman problem is also hard. Solving the traveling salesman
> problem while being punched in the face is even harder. When I complain
> about portage being slow, what I mean is that I want to stop being
> punched in the face so that I can concentrate all of my energy on the
> underlying hard problem.
>
>

I'll freely admit that my knowledge of the inner workings of
emerge/portage is tiny.  Even with what little I know, I'd hate to know
I had to do what emerge does with paper and pencil.  I suspect that
upgrading one package that has even just a few dependencies would be a
very slow and repetitive process.  Doing a major upgrade that is maybe a
one month jump, complete with several KDE upgrades, it could take weeks
to do all that by hand.  When people say magic is what emerge does, it
is likely closer than some think.  The only thing that isn't magic, the
error output. 

I feel sorry for the person/people who actually write the code for
emerge.  Heck, making a ebuild from scratch is likely bad enough.  I
can't imagine tinkering with emerge itself. 

Thank goodness it isn't me.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 07:48:01PM +0200, Alessandro Barbieri wrote:
> Whatever, but QA is by my side and I'm helping removing static libraries
> from gentoo packages.

Man, this is not a technical argument. Sorry :-). You are wrong from a
technical point of view. And the fact above says just:

- some packages really need not this
- or QA not competent in this question just like you

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 2:08 PM, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 07:48:01PM +0200, Alessandro Barbieri wrote:
>> Whatever, but QA is by my side and I'm helping removing static libraries
>> from gentoo packages.
> 
> Man, this is not a technical argument. Sorry :-). You are wrong from a
> technical point of view. And the fact above says just:
> 
> - some packages really need not this
> - or QA not competent in this question just like you
> 

How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security
vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL?

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Jones]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:19 PM Michael Orlitzky  wrote:

> How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security
> vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL?
>

Is there some reason why all packages that depend on OpenSSL, transitively,
could not be recompiled?

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Consus]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:19:19PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security
> vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL?

emerge -1 @world of course :D

By the way, Rust does support dynamic linking (to a degree), but does
not have (yet, I pray) stable ABI. So what's current Gentoo team
consensus on security updates? Will there be Cargo.lock metadata that
will allows portage to automatically rebuild against newer library
versions?

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 2:24 PM, Michael Jones wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:19 PM Michael Orlitzky  > wrote:
> 
> How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security
> vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL?
> 
> 
> Is there some reason why all packages that depend on OpenSSL,
> transitively, could not be recompiled? 

If you statically link more than a few things, this is emerge -e @world
 twenty times a day.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 2:24 PM, Consus wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:19:19PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>> How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security
>> vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL?
> 
> emerge -1 @world of course :D
> 
> By the way, Rust does support dynamic linking (to a degree), but does
> not have (yet, I pray) stable ABI. So what's current Gentoo team
> consensus on security updates? Will there be Cargo.lock metadata that
> will allows portage to automatically rebuild against newer library
> versions?
> 

Rust packages get no security updates. Neither do Go packages. That's
what I'm screaming about in those threads on gentoo-dev that you singled
out in your original post =)

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Consus]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:38:40PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> Rust packages get no security updates. Neither do Go packages. That's
> what I'm screaming about in those threads on gentoo-dev that you singled
> out in your original post =)

Oh... I was under the impression that $EGO_SUMS exists not only for
checksumming and distfiles downloading, but also for security updates.
Guess I was wrong.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,

[Ashley Dixon]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:15:31AM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> Maybe wrt visual handicaps you are right, but wrt keyboard access to
> everything that "normal" users do with the mouse, I violently disagree.

Ian,

I'm sorry I have invoked feelings of such  violence.   I  did  mean  for  visual
handicaps.  Even for able users, such as myself, we often make a choice  not  to
use the mouse as it is often less  efficient  than  using  the  keyboard,  so  I
wouldn't   really   classify   the   latter   as   an   accessibility   feature.

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

2A9A 4117
DA96 D18A
8A7B B0D2
A30E BF25
F290 A8AA



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Jones]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:33 PM Michael Orlitzky  wrote:

> On 4/22/20 2:24 PM, Michael Jones wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:19 PM Michael Orlitzky  > > wrote:
> >
> > How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a
> security
> > vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL?
> >
> >
> > Is there some reason why all packages that depend on OpenSSL,
> > transitively, could not be recompiled?
>
> If you statically link more than a few things, this is emerge -e @world
>  twenty times a day.
>
>
Why would I need to emerge world? Portage knows the full list of packages
that depend on openssl, transitively.

Unless you're generalizing to say that (almost) everything depends on
openssl, I suppose.

Also, didn't the handbook, at one point, say not to sync portage more than
once a day? So why would package installations happen 20 times per day?

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 3:15 PM, Michael Jones wrote:
> 
> Why would I need to emerge world? Portage knows the full list of
> packages that depend on openssl, transitively.
> 
> Unless you're generalizing to say that (almost) everything depends on
> openssl, I suppose.
> 
> Also, didn't the handbook, at one point, say not to sync portage more
> than once a day? So why would package installations happen 20 times per
> day? 

It's not that everything depends on OpenSSL, but that everything depends
on /something/. If everything is statically linked, then any update of
any package sets off a chain reaction of other packages that trigger
rebuilds of other packages that trigger rebuilds of...

If you only sync once a day, then yes, you'll only have to rebuild once
a day. I sync considerably more than that though, and besides, it takes
me about a week to emerge -e @world.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Jones]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:19 PM Michael Orlitzky  wrote:

> On 4/22/20 3:15 PM, Michael Jones wrote:
> >
> > Why would I need to emerge world? Portage knows the full list of
> > packages that depend on openssl, transitively.
> >
> > Unless you're generalizing to say that (almost) everything depends on
> > openssl, I suppose.
> >
> > Also, didn't the handbook, at one point, say not to sync portage more
> > than once a day? So why would package installations happen 20 times per
> > day?
>
> It's not that everything depends on OpenSSL, but that everything depends
> on /something/. If everything is statically linked, then any update of
> any package sets off a chain reaction of other packages that trigger
> rebuilds of other packages that trigger rebuilds of...
>
> If you only sync once a day, then yes, you'll only have to rebuild once
> a day. I sync considerably more than that though, and besides, it takes
> me about a week to emerge -e @world.
>
>

Well, I suppose that's the consequence that someone would have to accept if
they wanted to link things statically.

I use static libraries for work in some situations, and understand the cost
of using them

But I don't generally want my entire system statically linked, only a few
things.

Regardless, thank you for clarifying.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 4/22/20 3:22 PM, Michael Jones wrote:
> 
> But I don't generally want my entire system statically linked, only a
> few things.
> 

FWIW, I do know there are situations where static linking is the right
thing to do.

[gentoo-user] Re: Problem understanding "eix"

[Martin Vaeth]

Dr Rainer Woitok  wrote:
>> >app-crypt/tpm2-tss  2.2.3-r21 1
>> >app-crypt/tpm2-tss  2.3.3   1 1
>> 
>> This is strange: Both versions are only ~amd64, and in your previous
>> posting the output for {isstable} was indeed 0.
>
> No.  It was only 0 in the output of the "installedversions" call, where-
> as the lines quoted above  originated from the "availableversions" call.

You are right. It is mysterious why  is 1 for you.
I still cannot reproduce it.

> even if ARCH is erroneously set to "x86_64".

I exported ARCH="x86_64" and did eix-update, but still:

% F=':\n' eix --format '' -e tpm2-tss
2.2.3-r2:
2.3.3:

[gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Jorge Almeida]

... desperately needed.

The setup:
-- a microphone connected to an audio interface, which connects to an
USB port in the computer. The interface works like a USB sound card,
at least regarding sound capture. It works: I can record my voice with
arecord into a wav file, and then play the file with aplay.
-- a (motherboard) sound card with a toslink output connected to an
external DAC/amplifier. It works: playing wav, youtube, etc.

The problem:
I need to use it for voice chat. I tried slack and discord (the latter
both via browser and app--there's a package in portage--, the former
only via browser). No sound, neither outbound nor inbound.
None of these programs provides a way to tell them which devices to
use, so I assume they just go for some default.
I don't have a .asoundrc file. Contents of /etc/alsa/conf.d/ are not
customized.
Maybe some ALSA wiz that happens to be familiar with discord can
suggest something?

Thanks

Jorge Almeida

$ cat /proc/asound/devices
  1:: sequencer
  2: [ 0- 0]: digital audio playback
  3: [ 0- 0]: digital audio capture
  4: [ 0- 1]: digital audio playback
  5: [ 0- 2]: digital audio capture
  6: [ 0- 3]: digital audio playback
  7: [ 0]   : control
  8: [ 1- 0]: digital audio playback
  9: [ 1- 0]: digital audio capture
 10: [ 1]   : control
 33:: timer

$ arecord -L
null
Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)
sysdefault:CARD=PCH
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
Default Audio Device
front:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
Front speakers
usbstream:CARD=PCH
HDA Intel PCH
USB Stream Output
sysdefault:CARD=CODEC
USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
Default Audio Device
front:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
Front speakers
surround21:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
2.1 Surround output to Front and Subwoofer speakers
surround40:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
4.0 Surround output to Front and Rear speakers
surround41:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
4.1 Surround output to Front, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
surround50:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
5.0 Surround output to Front, Center and Rear speakers
surround51:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
5.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
surround71:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
7.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Side, Rear and Woofer speakers
iec958:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output
usbstream:CARD=CODEC
USB Audio CODEC
USB Stream Output

$ aplay -L
null
Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)
sysdefault:CARD=PCH
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
Default Audio Device
front:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
Front speakers
surround21:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
2.1 Surround output to Front and Subwoofer speakers
surround40:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
4.0 Surround output to Front and Rear speakers
surround41:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
4.1 Surround output to Front, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
surround50:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
5.0 Surround output to Front, Center and Rear speakers
surround51:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
5.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
surround71:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
7.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Side, Rear and Woofer speakers
iec958:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Digital
IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output
hdmi:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, Generic Digital
HDMI Audio Output
usbstream:CARD=PCH
HDA Intel PCH
USB Stream Output
sysdefault:CARD=CODEC
USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio

I know iec958:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0 is the appropriate device for capture
and that iec958:CARD=PCH,DEV=0 is the appropriate device for playback,
because it's what works with -D.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[John Covici]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:30:32 -0400,
Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> 
> On 4/22/20 1:19 PM, John Covici wrote:
> > 
> > That makes no sense to me -- portage itself says those files are owned
> > by 14.7.1965(14) so if its telling me that why does it not just
> > replace those files?
> > 
> 
> Aha, you're not doing anything wrong. The old 14.7.x version was slotted:
> 
> https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/diff/net-misc/teamviewer/teamviewer-14.7.1965.ebuild?id=2766d49e7c040d373685775a4515967cd0f1b33e
> 
> The new ones aren't (they're all SLOT=0). But the new ones install to
> the same place as the old 14.7.x versions. Since slotted packages aren't
> supposed to conflict, it's complaining that SLOT=0 and SLOT=14.7 (or
> whatever it was) are trying to install to the same place.
> 
> I guess the developer never noticed the problem because he was on a
> faster upgrade schedule. You can fix it by uninstalling the old version
> manually, and then installing the new one.
> 

OK, manually unmerging and re-emerging did the trick -- thanks all for
your help.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Mark Knecht]

Jorge,
   Sorry for top posting. I'm at a site with limited capabilities at the
moment. Please forgive.

   I'm slightly confused by the question but before I get into that please
provide the output of

cat /proc/asound/cards
cat /proc/asound/modules

What desktop environment are you using?

What kernel are you running?

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:57 PM Jorge Almeida  wrote:

> ... desperately needed.
>
> The setup:
> -- a microphone connected to an audio interface, which connects to an
> USB port in the computer. The interface works like a USB sound card,
> at least regarding sound capture. It works: I can record my voice with
> arecord into a wav file, and then play the file with aplay.
> -- a (motherboard) sound card with a toslink output connected to an
> external DAC/amplifier. It works: playing wav, youtube, etc.
>
> The problem:
> I need to use it for voice chat. I tried slack and discord (the latter
> both via browser and app--there's a package in portage--, the former
> only via browser). No sound, neither outbound nor inbound.
> None of these programs provides a way to tell them which devices to
> use, so I assume they just go for some default.
> I don't have a .asoundrc file. Contents of /etc/alsa/conf.d/ are not
> customized.
> Maybe some ALSA wiz that happens to be familiar with discord can
> suggest something?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jorge Almeida
>
> $ cat /proc/asound/devices
>   1:: sequencer
>   2: [ 0- 0]: digital audio playback
>   3: [ 0- 0]: digital audio capture
>   4: [ 0- 1]: digital audio playback
>   5: [ 0- 2]: digital audio capture
>   6: [ 0- 3]: digital audio playback
>   7: [ 0]   : control
>   8: [ 1- 0]: digital audio playback
>   9: [ 1- 0]: digital audio capture
>  10: [ 1]   : control
>  33:: timer
>
> $ arecord -L
> null
> Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)
> sysdefault:CARD=PCH
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> Default Audio Device
> front:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> Front speakers
> usbstream:CARD=PCH
> HDA Intel PCH
> USB Stream Output
> sysdefault:CARD=CODEC
> USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> Default Audio Device
> front:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> Front speakers
> surround21:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> 2.1 Surround output to Front and Subwoofer speakers
> surround40:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> 4.0 Surround output to Front and Rear speakers
> surround41:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> 4.1 Surround output to Front, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
> surround50:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> 5.0 Surround output to Front, Center and Rear speakers
> surround51:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> 5.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
> surround71:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> 7.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Side, Rear and Woofer speakers
> iec958:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output
> usbstream:CARD=CODEC
> USB Audio CODEC
> USB Stream Output
>
> $ aplay -L
> null
> Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)
> sysdefault:CARD=PCH
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> Default Audio Device
> front:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> Front speakers
> surround21:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> 2.1 Surround output to Front and Subwoofer speakers
> surround40:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> 4.0 Surround output to Front and Rear speakers
> surround41:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> 4.1 Surround output to Front, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
> surround50:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> 5.0 Surround output to Front, Center and Rear speakers
> surround51:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> 5.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
> surround71:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> 7.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Side, Rear and Woofer speakers
> iec958:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Digital
> IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output
> hdmi:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> HDA Intel PCH, Generic Digital
> HDMI Audio Output
> usbstream:CARD=PCH
> HDA Intel PCH
> USB Stream Output
> sysdefault:CARD=CODEC
> USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
>
> I know iec958:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0 is the appropriate device for capture
> and that iec958:CARD=PCH,DEV=0 is the appropriate device for playback,
> because it's what works with -D.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

John Covici wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:30:32 -0400,
> Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>> On 4/22/20 1:19 PM, John Covici wrote:
>>> That makes no sense to me -- portage itself says those files are owned
>>> by 14.7.1965(14) so if its telling me that why does it not just
>>> replace those files?
>>>
>> Aha, you're not doing anything wrong. The old 14.7.x version was slotted:
>>
>> https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/diff/net-misc/teamviewer/teamviewer-14.7.1965.ebuild?id=2766d49e7c040d373685775a4515967cd0f1b33e
>>
>> The new ones aren't (they're all SLOT=0). But the new ones install to
>> the same place as the old 14.7.x versions. Since slotted packages aren't
>> supposed to conflict, it's complaining that SLOT=0 and SLOT=14.7 (or
>> whatever it was) are trying to install to the same place.
>>
>> I guess the developer never noticed the problem because he was on a
>> faster upgrade schedule. You can fix it by uninstalling the old version
>> manually, and then installing the new one.
>>
> OK, manually unmerging and re-emerging did the trick -- thanks all for
> your help.
>

That's one problem solved.  Let's hope the other two will be dealt with
soon. 

Dale

:-)  :-)