Re: [gentoo-user] Deficient Gnome Window Frames

[gevisz]

2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon 

> On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
> > Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a Close,
> > Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
> >
> > Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary window frame
> > from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the Close
> > button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the whole
> > screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
> >
> > I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under Ubuntu but
> > somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all my windows
> > had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception was the
> > Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
> >
> > Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
> > sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize buttons "out
> > of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that do not do
> > the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window, of
> course).
> >
> > However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because at the
> > moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
> > (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather applet
> > with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
> >
> > Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
> > Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.
>
>
> I think the true answer is
>
> "You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"
>
> I'm happy to be proved wrong though.
>
> If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain. It will
> last only a short time.
>
> Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
>
>
Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far

1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to any other
 language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with evdev
 configs),

2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for example,
 I can not assign ++ to any program launcher
 in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,

3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.

All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step back
compared to Gnome 2
(but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared with
Gnome 3 :^), as
have not tried it so far).

P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in Fxce,
you are welcome. :^)

I set up toggling the keyboard layout to  key in
   /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:

   Option "XkbOptions"
"grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"

   It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(

   Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on the Xfce
panel,
   but could not find any.

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Jarry]

On 06-Sep-13 17:13, Michael Orlitzky wrote:

On 09/06/2013 11:01 AM, Jarry wrote:


after the last update I noticed that "emerge --depclean" removed
virtual/mta, mail-mta/ssmtp und net-mail/mailbase.

Does it mean mailer is no more part of system? I hope devs know
what they are doing. I always thought every *nix system must have
mailer. But now, there is not even /var/spool/mail on my Gentoo.
That's strange...


It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled
it in.


No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
"emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".

As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
linux-header updated. Nothing else.

After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
packages were suddenly removed...

Jarry

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Need help: Filesystem (ext4) corrupted!

[Francisco Ares]

2013/9/3 

> Francisco Ares  [13-09-04 02:08]:
> > Em 03/09/2013 13:12,  escreveu:
> > >
> > > William Kenworthy  [13-09-03 17:16]:
> > > > On 03/09/13 11:26, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote:
> > > > > William Kenworthy  [13-09-03 05:08]:
> > > > >> On 03/09/13 10:45, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote:
> > > > >>> walt  [13-09-03 04:15]:
> > > >  On 09/02/2013 09:15 AM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote:
> > > > > The rootfs and $HOME of my embedded system is stored
> > > > > on a 16GB SD-card (about 5GB used, rest free). The FS
> > > > > is ext4.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since the system hangs for unknown reasons several times
> > > >  Does it hang at a predictable point, like during boot, or
> poweroff?
> > > > 
> > > >  I know almost nothing about SD cards (yet).  Do they develop bad
> > > >  blocks like other storage media?  I notice fsck.ext4 has a -c
> flag
> > > >  to check for bad blocks.
> > > > 
> > > > >>> No, it hangs while compiling or while updateing (eix-sync; emerge
> > ...).
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I did the following now:
> > > > >>> I did a binary image backup with dd of the sdcard.
> > > > >>> I made a backup of the all files from the bad fs with tar.
> > > > >>> I say "YES" to fsck to fix what it found.
> > > > >>> I made another backup of the all files from the bad fs with tar.
> > > > >>> I md5summed both tar archives and found them identical.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Now...is the conclusion correct, that the identical md5sum
> > > > >>> indicate, that the fixed error of the fs only had impact to
> > > > >>> already invalidated data?
> > > > >>> Or whatelse could this indicate?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Best regards,
> > > > >>> mcc
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> PS: What come mind just in this moment:
> > > > >>> Can I ran fsck on an binary image of the fs which I made with dd
> > somehow?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> Have you run out of inodes? - ext 4 has had very mixed success for
> > me on
> > > > >> solid state.  Running out of inodes is a real problem for gentoo
> on
> > > > >> smaller SD cards with standard settings.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> BillK
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > > Does this error message from fsck indicate that? I am really bad in
> > > > > guessing what fsck tries to cry at me ... ;)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>> solfire:/root>fsck.ext4 -f -p /dev/sdb2
> > > > >>> rootfs: Inodes that were part of a corrupted orphan linked
> list
> > found.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> rootfs: UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY; RUN fsck MANUALLY.
> > > > >>> (i.e., without -a or -p options)
> > > > >>> [1]18644 exit 4 fsck.ext4 -f -p /dev/sdb2
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > > Is there any way to correct the settings from the default values to
> > > > > more advances ones, which respect the sdcard size of 16GB *without*
> > > > > blanking it...a "correction on the fly" so to say???
> > > > >
> > > > > And if not: Is there a way to backup the sdcard and playback the
> files
> > > > > after reformatting it by preserving all three time stamps of the
> > > > > files (atime is deactivated via fstab though) ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > mcc
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > df -i - if you get 100% iUSE or near to it thats your problem ... I
> have
> > > > seen that error message you give as a result of running out of inodes
> > > > corrupting the FS.
> > > >
> > > > No, your only way out is to copy (I use rync) the files off, recreate
> > > > the fs with max inodes ("man mke2fs") and rsync the files back.
>  Once an
> > > > ext* fs has been created with a certain number of inodes its fixed
> until
> > > > you re-format.
> > > >
> > > > I get it happening regularly on 4G cards when I forget and just
> emerge a
> > > > couple of packages without cleaning up in between packages.  On 16G
> > > > cards, its compiling something like glibc or gcc that uses huge
> numbers
> > > > of inodes at times.  On a single 32G card I have, the standard
> settings
> > > > have been fine ... so far :)
> > > >
> > > > Billk
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > df -i gives the following:
> > >
> > > rootfs   971040 352208   618832   37% /
> > > /dev/root971040 352208   618832   37% /
> > > devtmpfs  63420434629861% /dev
> > > tmpfs 63456389630671% /run
> > > shm   63456  1634551% /dev/shm
> > > cgroup_root   63456  6634501% /sys/fs/cgroup
> > > /dev/mmcblk0p10  00 - /boot
> > >
> > >
> > > You mentioned rsync to backup...
> > >
> > > I used
> > >
> > > sudo tar cvf  
> > >
> > > the rootfs has only one partition...
> > >
> > > Is it alos ok to use tar or is there any drawback?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > mcc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > There are some parameters for creating a better backup archive using tar,
> > like --same-owner and --atime- preserve.

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:
>>
>> It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled
>> it in.
> 
> No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
> remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
> "emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".
> 
> As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
> reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
> linux-header updated. Nothing else.
> 
> After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
> packages were suddenly removed...
> 

It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself:

http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 09/06/2013 11:01 AM, Jarry wrote:
> Hi Gentoo-users,
> 
> after the last update I noticed that "emerge --depclean" removed
> virtual/mta, mail-mta/ssmtp und net-mail/mailbase.
> 
> Does it mean mailer is no more part of system? I hope devs know
> what they are doing. I always thought every *nix system must have
> mailer. But now, there is not even /var/spool/mail on my Gentoo.
> That's strange...

It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled
it in.

[gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Jarry]

Hi Gentoo-users,

after the last update I noticed that "emerge --depclean" removed
virtual/mta, mail-mta/ssmtp und net-mail/mailbase.

Does it mean mailer is no more part of system? I hope devs know
what they are doing. I always thought every *nix system must have
mailer. But now, there is not even /var/spool/mail on my Gentoo.
That's strange...

Jarry
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Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Jarry]

On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry  wrote:

On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:


On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:



It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled
it in.



No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
"emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".

As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
linux-header updated. Nothing else.

After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
packages were suddenly removed...



It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself:


http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log



Then something got broken because I have packages installed
that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
"mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...

So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
this change was premature...


I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that
pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron.


That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet
revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should,
as cron can be configured to send emails too.

As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard
*nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must
be fixed to include mailer as dependency.

Jarry


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Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés  wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry  wrote:
>> On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>>>
>>> On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:
>
>
> It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled
> it in.


 No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
 remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
 "emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".

 As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
 reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
 linux-header updated. Nothing else.

 After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
 packages were suddenly removed...

>>>
>>> It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
>>> virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log
>>
>>
>> Then something got broken because I have packages installed
>> that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
>> configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
>> "mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
>> standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...
>>
>> So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
>> where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
>> happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
>> this change was premature...
>
> I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that
> pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron.

The change happened in the cron eclass:

http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/eclass/cron.eclass?r1=1.15&r2=1.16

>From the commit log: "Per extensive discussion with zmedico about
removing the need for package.provided, several packages have been
changed, like sudo, to not explicitly require an mta. Cron will
follow, leaving mta support optional."

The rationale (I suppose) is that the programs in question still work,
just the sending of emails fails.

Good riddance, if you ask me. If you need/want an MTA, just install
ssmtp by hand.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jarry  wrote:
> On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:


 On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that
>> pulled
>> it in.
>
>
>
> No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
> remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
> "emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".
>
> As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
> reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
> linux-header updated. Nothing else.
>
> After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
> packages were suddenly removed...
>

 It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
 virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for
 yourself:



 http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then something got broken because I have packages installed
>>> that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
>>> configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
>>> "mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
>>> standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...
>>>
>>> So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
>>> where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
>>> happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
>>> this change was premature...
>>
>>
>> I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that
>> pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron.
>
>
> That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet
> revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should,
> as cron can be configured to send emails too.

Read my last mail; they changed the RDEPEND for the cron eclass.

> As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard
> *nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must
> be fixed to include mailer as dependency.

The devs disagree. I think I'm with them; the packages in question
actually work, it just happens that they can't send mails anymore. If
you need/want them to send mails, install an MTA.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry  wrote:
> On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>>
>> On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:


 It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled
 it in.
>>>
>>>
>>> No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
>>> remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
>>> "emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".
>>>
>>> As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
>>> reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
>>> linux-header updated. Nothing else.
>>>
>>> After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
>>> packages were suddenly removed...
>>>
>>
>> It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
>> virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself:
>>
>>
>> http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log
>
>
> Then something got broken because I have packages installed
> that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
> configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
> "mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
> standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...
>
> So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
> where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
> happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
> this change was premature...

I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that
pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Jarry]

On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:

On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:


It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled
it in.


No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
"emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".

As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
linux-header updated. Nothing else.

After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
packages were suddenly removed...



It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself:

http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log


Then something got broken because I have packages installed
that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
"mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...

So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
this change was premature...

Jarry

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Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Philip Webb]

130906 Jarry wrote:
> after the last update I noticed that "emerge --depclean" removed
> virtual/mta, mail-mta/ssmtp und net-mail/mailbase.

>From my home-made list of installed pkgs I have :

  W 130420 mail-client/mutt-1.5.21-r12 [ USE ]
  W 120918 mail-filter/procmail-3.22-r10
120909 mail-mta/ssmtp-2.64-r2 [for procmail vixie-cron : USE ]
  W 130727 net-mail/fetchmail-6.3.26-r1
130120 net-mail/mailbase-1.1 [for vixie-cron ssmtp]
130216 virtual/mta-1 [for vixie-cron gnupg procmail]

The use flags I used are :

  mail-client/mutt USE=smtp
  mail-mta/ssmtp USE=mta

So you need to remerge  procmail vixie-cron mutt  or equivalents.

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

[gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Philip Webb]

I just did 'emerge -pv digikam' for 3.3.0
& it wants to install  54  pkgs, incl  systemd ;
 10  pkgs are KDE & include Marble.

Is my surprise justified ?

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Jarry]

On 06-Sep-13 18:29, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jarry  wrote:

On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:


On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry  wrote:


On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:



On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:




It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that
pulled
it in.




No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
"emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".

As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
linux-header updated. Nothing else.

After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
packages were suddenly removed...



It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for
yourself:



http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log




Then something got broken because I have packages installed
that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
"mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...

So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
this change was premature...



I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that
pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron.



That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet
revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should,
as cron can be configured to send emails too.


Read my last mail; they changed the RDEPEND for the cron eclass.


As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard
*nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must
be fixed to include mailer as dependency.


The devs disagree. I think I'm with them; the packages in question
actually work, it just happens that they can't send mails anymore. If
you need/want them to send mails, install an MTA.



"Just" can't send mails. So if mdadm detects failed drive in raid1
and I do not get mail about it, I will discover it at least when
the 2nd drive fails. That's a relief...

Why is there no global use-variable "mta"? Why not even local
for packages that might use mailer? This goes completely against
Gentoo-principles, if user has to search which other packages are
required and install them manually. Is it not what we have
use-flags for?

Jarry
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This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists!
Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Alan McKinnon]

On 06/09/2013 18:45, Jarry wrote:
> On 06-Sep-13 18:29, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jarry  wrote:
>>> On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry  wrote:
>
> On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:



 It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that
 pulled
 it in.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
>>> remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
>>> "emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".
>>>
>>> As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
>>> reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
>>> linux-header updated. Nothing else.
>>>
>>> After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
>>> packages were suddenly removed...
>>>
>>
>> It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
>> virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for
>> yourself:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log
>>
>
>
>
> Then something got broken because I have packages installed
> that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
> configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
> "mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
> standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...
>
> So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
> where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
> happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
> this change was premature...


 I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that
 pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron.
>>>
>>>
>>> That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet
>>> revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should,
>>> as cron can be configured to send emails too.
>>
>> Read my last mail; they changed the RDEPEND for the cron eclass.
>>
>>> As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard
>>> *nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must
>>> be fixed to include mailer as dependency.
>>
>> The devs disagree. I think I'm with them; the packages in question
>> actually work, it just happens that they can't send mails anymore. If
>> you need/want them to send mails, install an MTA.
>>
> 
> "Just" can't send mails. So if mdadm detects failed drive in raid1
> and I do not get mail about it, I will discover it at least when
> the 2nd drive fails. That's a relief...
> 
> Why is there no global use-variable "mta"? Why not even local
> for packages that might use mailer? This goes completely against
> Gentoo-principles, if user has to search which other packages are
> required and install them manually. Is it not what we have
> use-flags for?

Relax Jarry, take a chill-pill. It's Friday and weekend is almost here.

Let me point out the mistakes you have made.

You ran emerge --depclean blindly and let it do $WHATEVER. Or, you
didn't read the output and notice it was about to nuke the mta.

You assume and hope that you will always have a mailer. You didn't check
if it really was in @system, or in the profile, or set by a USE flag.
The mta just happened to be there, and you just assumed. Turns out it's
there because the cron eclass just happened to think it was a good idea.
It changed it's mind.

cron is not part of @system either. You had to emerge it yourself, and
that just happened to bring along an mta. If you wanted sendmail or
postfix instead of ssmtp, you would have had to do that manually too.

Just emerge the mta of your choice and put it in world. Then ask for the
docs to be updated. Or, seeing as it's now a wiki, edit the docs yourself.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Michael Hampicke]

Am 06.09.2013 18:45, schrieb Jarry:
> On 06-Sep-13 18:29, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jarry  wrote:
>>> On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry  wrote:
>
> On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:



 It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that
 pulled
 it in.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
>>> remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
>>> "emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".
>>>
>>> As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
>>> reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
>>> linux-header updated. Nothing else.
>>>
>>> After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
>>> packages were suddenly removed...
>>>
>>
>> It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
>> virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for
>> yourself:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log
>>
>
>
>
> Then something got broken because I have packages installed
> that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
> configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
> "mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
> standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...
>
> So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
> where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
> happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
> this change was premature...


 I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that
 pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron.
>>>
>>>
>>> That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet
>>> revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should,
>>> as cron can be configured to send emails too.
>>
>> Read my last mail; they changed the RDEPEND for the cron eclass.
>>
>>> As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard
>>> *nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must
>>> be fixed to include mailer as dependency.
>>
>> The devs disagree. I think I'm with them; the packages in question
>> actually work, it just happens that they can't send mails anymore. If
>> you need/want them to send mails, install an MTA.
>>
> 
> "Just" can't send mails. So if mdadm detects failed drive in raid1
> and I do not get mail about it, I will discover it at least when
> the 2nd drive fails. That's a relief...
> 
If you wan't to get mails from mdadm install an an MTA. Is that so hard
to understand?



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Jarry]

On 06-Sep-13 18:56, Alan McKinnon wrote:

On 06/09/2013 18:21, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés  wrote:

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry  wrote:

On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:


On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:



It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled
it in.



No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
"emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".

As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
linux-header updated. Nothing else.

After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
packages were suddenly removed...



It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself:


http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log



Then something got broken because I have packages installed
that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
"mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...

So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
this change was premature...


I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that
pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron.


The change happened in the cron eclass:

http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/eclass/cron.eclass?r1=1.15&r2=1.16

 From the commit log: "Per extensive discussion with zmedico about
removing the need for package.provided, several packages have been
changed, like sudo, to not explicitly require an mta. Cron will
follow, leaving mta support optional."

The rationale (I suppose) is that the programs in question still work,
just the sending of emails fails.

Good riddance, if you ask me. If you need/want an MTA, just install
ssmtp by hand.



Agreed. It's a bit daft relying on a cron daemon to be the only package
pulling in a mailer. One can't even argue that it makes sense as a
default - cron merely has this feature to notify the root user if a cron
job wrote something to STDOUT.

That's a notification. It is not an absolute need to have sendmail.

If you want a syslogger, install a syslogger.
If you want a print server, install a print server.
Likewise, if you want a mailer, install one.


If I want syslog-support, I add "syslog" to USE.
If I want ssl-support, I add "ssl" to USE.
If I want perl-support, I add "perl" to USE.
If I want mta-support, I add... wait, no! I can not add "mta"
to USE, I have to install mta manually...

Got the picture now?

Jarry
--
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Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés  wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Philip Webb  wrote:
>> I just did 'emerge -pv digikam' for 3.3.0
>> & it wants to install  54  pkgs, incl  systemd ;
>>  10  pkgs are KDE & include Marble.
>>
>> Is my surprise justified ?
>
> Yes, I think it is. Probably gphoto2 pulls GNOME stuff, which in turn
> pulls systemd. Support for gphoto2 in digikam is optional, I belive;
> the easiest solution is to USE="-gphoto2".
>
> If you are willing to spend a little time investigating, I bet you can
> install gphoto2 without systemd, but you need to see what is pulling
> it. My bet would be PolicyKit.
>
> The thing is, GNOME 3 now need systemd. Therefore, a lot of GNOME
> packages are setting their defaults dependencies to pull packages in
> such a way that systemd is one of them. If you don't use GNOME, but
> install one of its packages (or something that pulls something else
> from GNOME), you can pull *by default* systemd.
>
> However, I'm pretty sure you can configure out systemd without too
> much problem (if you don't use GNOME 3, that is).

I checked gphoto2, and I don't think is the one pulling systemd. In
fact, I don't see any dependency of digikam as an obvious puller for
it.

Could you mask sys-apps/systemd and see what emerge prints when trying
to install digikam again? It will tell you which dependency chain
pulls it.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Alan McKinnon]

On 06/09/2013 18:21, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés  wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry  wrote:
>>> On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:

 On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:
>>
>>
>> It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled
>> it in.
>
>
> No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
> remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
> "emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".
>
> As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
> reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
> linux-header updated. Nothing else.
>
> After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
> packages were suddenly removed...
>

 It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
 virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself:


 http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log
>>>
>>>
>>> Then something got broken because I have packages installed
>>> that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
>>> configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
>>> "mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
>>> standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...
>>>
>>> So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
>>> where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
>>> happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
>>> this change was premature...
>>
>> I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that
>> pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron.
> 
> The change happened in the cron eclass:
> 
> http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/eclass/cron.eclass?r1=1.15&r2=1.16
> 
> From the commit log: "Per extensive discussion with zmedico about
> removing the need for package.provided, several packages have been
> changed, like sudo, to not explicitly require an mta. Cron will
> follow, leaving mta support optional."
> 
> The rationale (I suppose) is that the programs in question still work,
> just the sending of emails fails.
> 
> Good riddance, if you ask me. If you need/want an MTA, just install
> ssmtp by hand.


Agreed. It's a bit daft relying on a cron daemon to be the only package
pulling in a mailer. One can't even argue that it makes sense as a
default - cron merely has this feature to notify the root user if a cron
job wrote something to STDOUT.

That's a notification. It is not an absolute need to have sendmail.

If you want a syslogger, install a syslogger.
If you want a print server, install a print server.
Likewise, if you want a mailer, install one.

The days of classic Unix servers representing what a Gentoo system
should be are long gone.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: must I mask gnome-3.8 until I am running systemd

[gottlieb]

On Thu, Sep 05 2013, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 8:19 PM, walt  wrote:
>> On 09/05/2013 05:43 PM, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote:
>>> [I will be going to systemd since it is aparently required for
>>> gnome-3.8.  I first want to try systemd on a test system so am building
>>> that one up.]
>>>
>>> On my main system (currently running openrc) I have masked all of
>>> gnome-3.8.  I wonder if this was an error and I can remove the
>>> mask.  Is it the case that
>>>
>>> 1.  Running openrc instead of systemd means you must mask gnome-3.8
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> 2.  It is ok to emerge gnome-3.8 without a mask but some pieces will
>>> stay at 3.6?
>>>
>>> In other words can I eliminate my file
>>>   /etc/portage/package.mask/gnome-3.8
>>> with all the 3.8 builds?
>>
>> Well, Canek is the systemd guru in this group, but I have been able
>> to boot my ~amd64 test machine successfully using *either* openrc or
>> systemd.
>>
>> This was a pleasant surprise to me because Canek posted not long ago
>> that openrc is now incompatible with systemd.
>
> I'm pretty sure I never said such thing. Both sys-apps/systemd and
> sys-apps/openrc satisfy virtual/service-manager, so if you installed
> systemd, OpenRC was depcleaned some days ago, but since bug 373219[1]
> hasn't been closed, they added OpenRC into the @system set, so now
> it's not even depcleaned. You can put -*sys-apps/openrc in
> /etc/portage/profile/package to solve that.
>
> No incompatibility, and I never said that.
>
>> Canek, please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm a bit lost in the
>> details of the gnome3/systemd update at the moment.
>
> I believe you can install OpenRC and systemd in parallel without
> problems. GNOME 3 will pull systemd when installed, but that doesn't
> mean you will need to uninstall OpenRC. However, several GNOME
> packages (including gdm, if I'm not mistaken) will fail if not running
> with systemd as PID=1.
>
> I don't know how well it works OpenRC parallel installed with systemd,
> I haven't used it in years.
>
> Regards.
>
> [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373219

Canek,  Thanks for this information.  But what about my original
question, namely

  Can I remove my masks and let gnome-3.8 replace 3.6 (to the
  extent portage let's it) while I am running openrc and do
  *not* have systemd installed?

thanks,
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Alan McKinnon]

On 06/09/2013 20:07, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Philip Webb  wrote:
>> 130906 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Philip Webb  wrote:
 I just did 'emerge -pv digikam' for 3.3.0
 & it wants to install  54  pkgs, incl  systemd ;
  10  pkgs are KDE & include Marble.  Is my surprise justified ?
>>> Yes, I think it is.
>>> Probably gphoto2 pulls GNOME stuff, which in turn pulls systemd ...
>>> ... I checked gphoto2, and I don't think is the one pulling systemd.
>>> I don't see any dependency of digikam as an obvious puller for it.
>>> Could you mask sys-apps/systemd
>>> and see what emerge prints when trying to install digikam again?
>>> It will tell you which dependency chain pulls it.
>>
>> It wants  k3b , which requires USE="udisks", which pulls in  11  pkgs.
>> It also wants  eudev , a  qt  update & various CD stuff.
>> That starts to add up towards the  54  pkgs, which are still needed.
>> The whole list it demands is
>>   USE="plasma udisks script gudev hwdb keymap modutils".
>>
>> I use some KDE apps, but stay away from the desktop,
>> so perhaps the requirement for "plasma" is what gets it started.
> 
> No, KDE doesn't depend on systemd (AFAIK). And it's funny that it
> wants eudev AND systemd.
> 
> Regards.
> 

This config does not pull in systemd (LINGUAS removed for clarity)

$ eix digikam
[I] media-gfx/digikam
 Available versions:  (4) 3.2.0^t (~)3.3.0^t
   {addressbook aqua debug doc gphoto2 +handbook mysql themedesigner
+thumbnails video}
 Installed versions:  3.3.0(4)^t(11:41:42 15/08/2013)(gphoto2
handbook mysql thumbnails video -addressbook -aqua -debug -doc
-themedesigner
 Homepage:http://www.digikam.org/
 Description: Digital photo management application for KDE



I think your problem is USE="gudev", which on my system is used by
sys-fs/udev and virtual/udev. Yours will be different (equery hasuse
only lists USE for installed apps).

most likely is that you have a mismatch between USE for virtual/udev and
sys-fs/eudev. Remember all the pain we had to go through a while back to
discover they must match exactly? Very easy to miss that, especially as
portage doesn't help detect mismatches.



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Philip Webb  wrote:
> 130906 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Philip Webb  wrote:
>>> I just did 'emerge -pv digikam' for 3.3.0
>>> & it wants to install  54  pkgs, incl  systemd ;
>>>  10  pkgs are KDE & include Marble.  Is my surprise justified ?
>> Yes, I think it is.
>> Probably gphoto2 pulls GNOME stuff, which in turn pulls systemd ...
>> ... I checked gphoto2, and I don't think is the one pulling systemd.
>> I don't see any dependency of digikam as an obvious puller for it.
>> Could you mask sys-apps/systemd
>> and see what emerge prints when trying to install digikam again?
>> It will tell you which dependency chain pulls it.
>
> It wants  k3b , which requires USE="udisks", which pulls in  11  pkgs.
> It also wants  eudev , a  qt  update & various CD stuff.
> That starts to add up towards the  54  pkgs, which are still needed.
> The whole list it demands is
>   USE="plasma udisks script gudev hwdb keymap modutils".
>
> I use some KDE apps, but stay away from the desktop,
> so perhaps the requirement for "plasma" is what gets it started.

No, KDE doesn't depend on systemd (AFAIK). And it's funny that it
wants eudev AND systemd.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Philip Webb]

130906 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Philip Webb  wrote:
>> I just did 'emerge -pv digikam' for 3.3.0
>> & it wants to install  54  pkgs, incl  systemd ;
>>  10  pkgs are KDE & include Marble.  Is my surprise justified ?
> Yes, I think it is.
> Probably gphoto2 pulls GNOME stuff, which in turn pulls systemd ...
> ... I checked gphoto2, and I don't think is the one pulling systemd.
> I don't see any dependency of digikam as an obvious puller for it.
> Could you mask sys-apps/systemd
> and see what emerge prints when trying to install digikam again?
> It will tell you which dependency chain pulls it.

It wants  k3b , which requires USE="udisks", which pulls in  11  pkgs.
It also wants  eudev , a  qt  update & various CD stuff.
That starts to add up towards the  54  pkgs, which are still needed.
The whole list it demands is
  USE="plasma udisks script gudev hwdb keymap modutils".

I use some KDE apps, but stay away from the desktop,
so perhaps the requirement for "plasma" is what gets it started.

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: must I mask gnome-3.8 until I am running systemd

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:27 PM,   wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 05 2013, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 8:19 PM, walt  wrote:
>>> On 09/05/2013 05:43 PM, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote:
 [I will be going to systemd since it is aparently required for
 gnome-3.8.  I first want to try systemd on a test system so am building
 that one up.]

 On my main system (currently running openrc) I have masked all of
 gnome-3.8.  I wonder if this was an error and I can remove the
 mask.  Is it the case that

 1.  Running openrc instead of systemd means you must mask gnome-3.8

 or

 2.  It is ok to emerge gnome-3.8 without a mask but some pieces will
 stay at 3.6?

 In other words can I eliminate my file
   /etc/portage/package.mask/gnome-3.8
 with all the 3.8 builds?
>>>
>>> Well, Canek is the systemd guru in this group, but I have been able
>>> to boot my ~amd64 test machine successfully using *either* openrc or
>>> systemd.
>>>
>>> This was a pleasant surprise to me because Canek posted not long ago
>>> that openrc is now incompatible with systemd.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure I never said such thing. Both sys-apps/systemd and
>> sys-apps/openrc satisfy virtual/service-manager, so if you installed
>> systemd, OpenRC was depcleaned some days ago, but since bug 373219[1]
>> hasn't been closed, they added OpenRC into the @system set, so now
>> it's not even depcleaned. You can put -*sys-apps/openrc in
>> /etc/portage/profile/package to solve that.
>>
>> No incompatibility, and I never said that.
>>
>>> Canek, please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm a bit lost in the
>>> details of the gnome3/systemd update at the moment.
>>
>> I believe you can install OpenRC and systemd in parallel without
>> problems. GNOME 3 will pull systemd when installed, but that doesn't
>> mean you will need to uninstall OpenRC. However, several GNOME
>> packages (including gdm, if I'm not mistaken) will fail if not running
>> with systemd as PID=1.
>>
>> I don't know how well it works OpenRC parallel installed with systemd,
>> I haven't used it in years.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373219
>
> Canek,  Thanks for this information.  But what about my original
> question, namely
>
>   Can I remove my masks and let gnome-3.8 replace 3.6 (to the
>   extent portage let's it) while I am running openrc and do
>   *not* have systemd installed?

No, you can't: systemd is now a requirement for GNOME 3; gdm-3.8.4
requires systemd unconditionally. If you try to install GNOME 3.8, it
will install gdm 3.8.4, which will bring systemd. You cannot install
gdm without systemd; therefore, you cannot install gnome-base/gnome
without systemd.

You could *try* to update the pieces of GNOME to 3.8 that doesn't
require systemd, but I don't think that will end happily.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[gevisz]

2013/9/6 Jarry 

> On 06-Sep-13 18:56, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
>> On 06/09/2013 18:21, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry  wrote:

> On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>
>>
>> On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:
>>
>>>

 It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that
 pulled
 it in.

>>>
>>>
>>> No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
>>> remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
>>> "emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".
>>>
>>> As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
>>> reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
>>> linux-header updated. Nothing else.
>>>
>>> After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
>>> packages were suddenly removed...
>>>
>>>
>> It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
>> virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for
>> yourself:
>>
>>
>> http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-**bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/**
>> profiles/base/packages?view=**log
>>
>
>
> Then something got broken because I have packages installed
> that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
> configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
> "mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
> standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...
>
> So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
> where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
> happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
> this change was premature...
>

 I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that
 pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron.

>>>
>>> The change happened in the cron eclass:
>>>
>>> http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-**bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/**
>>> eclass/cron.eclass?r1=1.15&r2=**1.16
>>>
>>>  From the commit log: "Per extensive discussion with zmedico about
>>> removing the need for package.provided, several packages have been
>>> changed, like sudo, to not explicitly require an mta. Cron will
>>> follow, leaving mta support optional."
>>>
>>> The rationale (I suppose) is that the programs in question still work,
>>> just the sending of emails fails.
>>>
>>> Good riddance, if you ask me. If you need/want an MTA, just install
>>> ssmtp by hand.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Agreed. It's a bit daft relying on a cron daemon to be the only package
>> pulling in a mailer. One can't even argue that it makes sense as a
>> default - cron merely has this feature to notify the root user if a cron
>> job wrote something to STDOUT.
>>
>> That's a notification. It is not an absolute need to have sendmail.
>>
>> If you want a syslogger, install a syslogger.
>> If you want a print server, install a print server.
>> Likewise, if you want a mailer, install one.
>>
>
> If I want syslog-support, I add "syslog" to USE.
> If I want ssl-support, I add "ssl" to USE.
> If I want perl-support, I add "perl" to USE.
> If I want mta-support, I add... wait, no! I can not add "mta"
> to USE, I have to install mta manually...
>
> Got the picture now?


The gnome USE does not install Gnome for you.

Sorry for that.


>
>
> Jarry
> --
> __**__**___
> This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists!
> Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Philip Webb  wrote:
> 130906 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> most likely there's a mismatch between USE for virtual/udev & sys-fs/eudev.
>
> I don't have  eudev  installed.
>
> (1) Portage wants  USE="plasma".
> (2) kipi-plugins -> k3b -> USE="udisks".
> (3) marble -> pykde4-4.11.0 -> USE="script".
> (4) udisks -> USE="gudev".
> (5) then I see :
>
>   sys-apps/systemd-206-r3::gentoo (Change USE: +kmod)
>   virtual/udev-206-r2::gentoo (Change USE: -kmod)
>
> Adding  -kmod  to the USE list gets  54  pkgs, incl  systemd ,
> which I've masked in  package.mask  with "sys-fs/systemd".

sys-apps/systemd, right?

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Frank Steinmetzger]

On Fri, Sep 06, 2013 at 02:51:19PM -0400, Philip Webb wrote:
> 130906 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > most likely there's a mismatch between USE for virtual/udev & sys-fs/eudev.
> 
> I don't have  eudev  installed.
> 
> (1) Portage wants  USE="plasma".
> (2) kipi-plugins -> k3b -> USE="udisks".
> (3) marble -> pykde4-4.11.0 -> USE="script".
> (4) udisks -> USE="gudev".

Are you sure about udisks[gudev]? I don't see that flag here. eudev has that
flag, but even with it enabled, emerge -pv eudev does not pull in systemd
here.

A assume you checked the output of emerge --tree?
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me with any Facebook service.

Seize the carp.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Deficient Gnome Window Frames

[gevisz]

2013/9/6 gevisz 

>
> 2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon 
>
>> On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
>> > Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a Close,
>> > Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
>> >
>> > Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary window frame
>> > from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the Close
>> > button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the whole
>> > screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
>> >
>> > I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under Ubuntu but
>> > somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all my windows
>> > had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception was the
>> > Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
>> >
>> > Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
>> > sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize buttons "out
>> > of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that do not do
>> > the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window, of
>> course).
>> >
>> > However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because at the
>> > moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
>> > (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather applet
>> > with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
>> >
>> > Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
>> > Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.
>>
>>
>> I think the true answer is
>>
>> "You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"
>>
>> I'm happy to be proved wrong though.
>>
>> If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain. It will
>> last only a short time.
>>
>> Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
>>
>>
> Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far
>
> 1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to any other
>  language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with evdev
>  configs),
>
> 2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for example,
>  I can not assign ++ to any program launcher
>  in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,
>
> 3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
> packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.
>
> All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step back
> compared to Gnome 2
> (but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared with
> Gnome 3 :^), as
> have not tried it so far).
>
> P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
> explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in Fxce,
> you are welcome. :^)
>
> I set up toggling the keyboard layout to  key in
>/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:
>
>Option "XkbOptions"
> "grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>
>It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(
>
>Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on the
> Xfce panel,
>but could not find any.
>
>
A short update: after installing xfce4-xkb-plugin, which was not included
in the xfce4-meta package
(and I did not noticed it earlier), I finally got a keyboard layout
indicator. At first, it did not work, that is,
I could not switch a keyboard layout in no way. However, later, after
changing some of the plugin's
settings, it suddenly started to switch the keyboard layout. Interestingly,
the applet continued to switch
the keyboard layout even after I have changed all its settings to the
original ones. Magically, the 
key also started to switch the keyboard layout.

So, my first and most important objection against Xfce4 is no more valid.
The third one is not
so important. Only the second is a bit annoying but one can live with it.
:^)

Now, my Xfce4 looks almost like my Gnome2. Its weather applet is even more
informative. :^)

However, my original question about Deficient Gnome Window Frames is still
valid.

But not so important any more. :^)

Re: [gentoo-user] Deficient Gnome Window Frames

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:55 PM, gevisz  wrote:
> 2013/9/6 gevisz 
>>
>>
>> 2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon 
>>>
>>> On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
>>> > Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a Close,
>>> > Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
>>> >
>>> > Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary window frame
>>> > from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the Close
>>> > button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the whole
>>> > screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
>>> >
>>> > I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under Ubuntu but
>>> > somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all my windows
>>> > had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception was the
>>> > Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
>>> >
>>> > Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
>>> > sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize buttons "out
>>> > of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that do not
>>> > do
>>> > the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window, of
>>> > course).
>>> >
>>> > However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because at the
>>> > moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
>>> > (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather applet
>>> > with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
>>> >
>>> > Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
>>> > Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the true answer is
>>>
>>> "You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"
>>>
>>> I'm happy to be proved wrong though.
>>>
>>> If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain. It will
>>> last only a short time.
>>>
>>> Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far
>>
>> 1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to any other
>>  language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with evdev
>>  configs),
>>
>> 2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for example,
>>  I can not assign ++ to any program launcher
>>  in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,
>>
>> 3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
>> packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.
>>
>> All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step back
>> compared to Gnome 2
>> (but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared with
>> Gnome 3 :^), as
>> have not tried it so far).
>>
>> P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
>> explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in Fxce,
>> you are welcome. :^)
>>
>> I set up toggling the keyboard layout to  key in
>>/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:
>>
>>Option "XkbOptions"
>> "grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>>
>>It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(
>>
>>Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on the
>> Xfce panel,
>>but could not find any.
>>
>
> A short update: after installing xfce4-xkb-plugin, which was not included in
> the xfce4-meta package
> (and I did not noticed it earlier), I finally got a keyboard layout
> indicator. At first, it did not work, that is,
> I could not switch a keyboard layout in no way. However, later, after
> changing some of the plugin's
> settings, it suddenly started to switch the keyboard layout. Interestingly,
> the applet continued to switch
> the keyboard layout even after I have changed all its settings to the
> original ones. Magically, the 
> key also started to switch the keyboard layout.
>
> So, my first and most important objection against Xfce4 is no more valid.
> The third one is not
> so important. Only the second is a bit annoying but one can live with it.
> :^)
>
> Now, my Xfce4 looks almost like my Gnome2. Its weather applet is even more
> informative. :^)

If you want GNOME 2, you should try MATE. GNOME 2 is unsupported; It's
been years since somebody actually worked on it. Bugs, bitrot and
security vulnerabilities are probably (if not surely) present in the
code base.

MATE supposedly tries to keep GNOME 2 alive (although its homepage is down).

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Deficient Gnome Window Frames

[gevisz]

2013/9/6 Canek Peláez Valdés 

> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:55 PM, gevisz  wrote:
> > 2013/9/6 gevisz 
> >>
> >>
> >> 2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon 
> >>>
> >>> On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
> >>> > Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a Close,
> >>> > Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
> >>> >
> >>> > Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary window
> frame
> >>> > from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the Close
> >>> > button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the whole
> >>> > screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
> >>> >
> >>> > I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under Ubuntu
> but
> >>> > somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all my
> windows
> >>> > had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception was the
> >>> > Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
> >>> >
> >>> > Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
> >>> > sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize buttons
> "out
> >>> > of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that do not
> >>> > do
> >>> > the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window, of
> >>> > course).
> >>> >
> >>> > However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because at the
> >>> > moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
> >>> > (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather applet
> >>> > with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
> >>> >
> >>> > Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
> >>> > Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think the true answer is
> >>>
> >>> "You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"
> >>>
> >>> I'm happy to be proved wrong though.
> >>>
> >>> If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain. It will
> >>> last only a short time.
> >>>
> >>> Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far
> >>
> >> 1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to any other
> >>  language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with evdev
> >>  configs),
> >>
> >> 2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for example,
> >>  I can not assign ++ to any program launcher
> >>  in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,
> >>
> >> 3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
> >> packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.
> >>
> >> All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step back
> >> compared to Gnome 2
> >> (but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared with
> >> Gnome 3 :^), as
> >> have not tried it so far).
> >>
> >> P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
> >> explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in Fxce,
> >> you are welcome. :^)
> >>
> >> I set up toggling the keyboard layout to  key in
> >>/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:
> >>
> >>Option "XkbOptions"
> >> "grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> >>
> >>It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(
> >>
> >>Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on the
> >> Xfce panel,
> >>but could not find any.
> >>
> >
> > A short update: after installing xfce4-xkb-plugin, which was not
> included in
> > the xfce4-meta package
> > (and I did not noticed it earlier), I finally got a keyboard layout
> > indicator. At first, it did not work, that is,
> > I could not switch a keyboard layout in no way. However, later, after
> > changing some of the plugin's
> > settings, it suddenly started to switch the keyboard layout.
> Interestingly,
> > the applet continued to switch
> > the keyboard layout even after I have changed all its settings to the
> > original ones. Magically, the 
> > key also started to switch the keyboard layout.
> >
> > So, my first and most important objection against Xfce4 is no more valid.
> > The third one is not
> > so important. Only the second is a bit annoying but one can live with it.
> > :^)
> >
> > Now, my Xfce4 looks almost like my Gnome2. Its weather applet is even
> more
> > informative. :^)
>
> If you want GNOME 2, you should try MATE. GNOME 2 is unsupported; It's
> been years since somebody actually worked on it. Bugs, bitrot and
> security vulnerabilities are probably (if not surely) present in the
> code base.
>
> MATE supposedly tries to keep GNOME 2 alive (although its homepage is
> down).
>
--
> Canek Peláez Valdés
> Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
>
>
But I have not found MATE in portage...

Anyway, it is not so important now, as I have already almost satisfied with
my present Xfce setup.

Thank you for th

Re: [gentoo-user] A drive in my RAID6 has failed

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Paul Hartman
 wrote:
> So, I simply inserted and partitioned the new drive, added it to the
> array and away we go!
>
> md0 : active raid6 sde1[6] sdd1[5] sdg1[4] sdh1[2] sdf1[1] sdi1[0]
>   11720009728 blocks super 1.2 level 6, 512k chunk, algorithm 2
> [6/5] [UUU_UU]
>   [>]  recovery =  2.3% (69513216/2930002432)
> finish=428.7min speed=111206K/sec
>
> When I wake up in the morning, I hope there won't be any errors.

Success! It took 10 hours to rebuild the drive (speeds near the start
of the disk are significantly faster than those near the end of the
disk, so early estimates quoted by /proc/mdstat above were overly
optimistic):

[3720270.120695] md: bind
[3720270.162933] RAID conf printout:
[3720270.162942]  --- level:6 rd:6 wd:5
[3720270.162949]  disk 0, o:1, dev:sdi1
[3720270.162954]  disk 1, o:1, dev:sdf1
[3720270.162958]  disk 2, o:1, dev:sdh1
[3720270.162962]  disk 3, o:1, dev:sde1
[3720270.162965]  disk 4, o:1, dev:sdg1
[3720270.162969]  disk 5, o:1, dev:sdd1
[3720270.163060] md: recovery of RAID array md0
[3720270.163067] md: minimum _guaranteed_  speed: 1000 KB/sec/disk.
[3720270.163071] md: using maximum available idle IO bandwidth (but
not more than 20 KB/sec) for recovery.
[3720270.163085] md: using 128k window, over a total of 2930002432k.
[3756293.459324] md: md0: recovery done.
[3756294.797961] RAID conf printout:
[3756294.797969]  --- level:6 rd:6 wd:6
[3756294.797974]  disk 0, o:1, dev:sdi1
[3756294.797979]  disk 1, o:1, dev:sdf1
[3756294.797982]  disk 2, o:1, dev:sdh1
[3756294.797986]  disk 3, o:1, dev:sde1
[3756294.797989]  disk 4, o:1, dev:sdg1
[3756294.797992]  disk 5, o:1, dev:sdd1

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Install from USB stick; here's how

[Walter Dnes]

On Wed, Sep 04, 2013 at 09:59:28PM +, Grant Edwards wrote

> Do the instructions at http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/LiveUSB/HOWTO work
> with UEFI machines where the simple 'dd' method doesn't?

  I don't have a UEFI boot machine, so I don't know.

> One datapoint: my motherboard has UEFI bios, and simply dd'ing the
> minimal install .iso to a flash drive worked fine.  When I boot up
> with the USB drive, the BIOS boot menu shows two entries for the USB
> drive, the first one always worked, so I never tried the second one...

  Are you booting in UEFI mode or "legacy mode"?

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

[gentoo-user] Re: RAID 1 install guide?

[James]

Marc Stürmer  marc-stuermer.de> writes:


> https://raid.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/RAID_setup

Hey thanks everyone for the suggestions.
I'll vige the install a whirl and post to
a new thread with problems.


James

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Philip Webb]

130906 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Philip Webb  wrote:
>> (1) Portage wants  USE="plasma".
>> (2) kipi-plugins -> k3b -> USE="udisks".
>> (3) marble -> pykde4-4.11.0 -> USE="script".
>> (4) udisks -> USE="gudev".
> sys-apps/systemd, right?

Sorry, it's a busy day.  With that correction, I get :

  sys-fs/eudev-1.2-r1::gentoo (Change USE: +hwdb +keymap +modutils)
  
Then  54  pkgs, but  eudev  for  systemd .

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: must I mask gnome-3.8 until I am running systemd

[gottlieb]

On Fri, Sep 06 2013, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:27 PM,   wrote:
>>
>> Canek,  Thanks for this information.  But what about my original
>> question, namely
>>
>>   Can I remove my masks and let gnome-3.8 replace 3.6 (to the
>>   extent portage let's it) while I am running openrc and do
>>   *not* have systemd installed?
>
> No, you can't: systemd is now a requirement for GNOME 3; gdm-3.8.4
> requires systemd unconditionally. If you try to install GNOME 3.8, it
> will install gdm 3.8.4, which will bring systemd. You cannot install
> gdm without systemd; therefore, you cannot install gnome-base/gnome
> without systemd.
>
> You could *try* to update the pieces of GNOME to 3.8 that doesn't
> require systemd, but I don't think that will end happily.
>
> Regards.

That is what I suspected.  I will keep the gnome-3.8 packages masked
while I build up an old system and then try to convert it to systemd.
When the conversion succeeds, I will try to convert my real system.

thanks again for your help,
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Alan McKinnon]

On 06/09/2013 20:51, Philip Webb wrote:
> 130906 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> most likely there's a mismatch between USE for virtual/udev & sys-fs/eudev.
> 
> I don't have  eudev  installed.
> 
> (1) Portage wants  USE="plasma".
> (2) kipi-plugins -> k3b -> USE="udisks".
> (3) marble -> pykde4-4.11.0 -> USE="script".
> (4) udisks -> USE="gudev".
> (5) then I see :
> 
>   sys-apps/systemd-206-r3::gentoo (Change USE: +kmod)
>   virtual/udev-206-r2::gentoo (Change USE: -kmod)
> 
> Adding  -kmod  to the USE list gets  54  pkgs, incl  systemd ,
> which I've masked in  package.mask  with "sys-fs/systemd".
> 


It gets more complex by the post...

I just noticed I have UE="gudev" in package.use for udev, and I don't
have systemd. So that's not it.




-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Philip Webb  wrote:
> 130906 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Philip Webb  wrote:
>>> (1) Portage wants  USE="plasma".
>>> (2) kipi-plugins -> k3b -> USE="udisks".
>>> (3) marble -> pykde4-4.11.0 -> USE="script".
>>> (4) udisks -> USE="gudev".
>> sys-apps/systemd, right?
>
> Sorry, it's a busy day.  With that correction, I get :
>
>   sys-fs/eudev-1.2-r1::gentoo (Change USE: +hwdb +keymap +modutils)
>
> Then  54  pkgs, but  eudev  for  systemd .

Well, with that at least you escape from the newfangled systemd ;)

If I'm not mistaken, nothing in the tree depends directly on eudev;
it's (supposedly) a drop in replacement for udev if you don't want any
systemd cooties.

Now mask eudev and see what happens.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Deficient Gnome Window Frames

[Alan McKinnon]

On 06/09/2013 20:55, gevisz wrote:
> 2013/9/6 gevisz mailto:gev...@gmail.com>>
> 
> 
> 2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon  >
> 
> On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
> > Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a
> Close,
> > Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
> >
> > Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary
> window frame
> > from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the
> Close
> > button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the
> whole
> > screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
> >
> > I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under
> Ubuntu but
> > somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all
> my windows
> > had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception
> was the
> > Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
> >
> > Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
> > sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize
> buttons "out
> > of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that
> do not do
> > the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window,
> of course).
> >
> > However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because
> at the
> > moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
> > (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather
> applet
> > with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
> >
> > Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
> > Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.
> 
> 
> I think the true answer is
> 
> "You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"
> 
> I'm happy to be proved wrong though.
> 
> If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain.
> It will
> last only a short time.
> 
> Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far
> 
> 1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to any other
>  language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with evdev
>  configs),
> 
> 2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for example,
>  I can not assign ++ to any program launcher
>  in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,
> 
> 3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
> packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.
> 
> All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step back
> compared to Gnome 2
> (but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared
> with Gnome 3 :^), as
> have not tried it so far).
> 
> P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
> explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in Fxce,
> you are welcome. :^)
> 
> I set up toggling the keyboard layout to  key in
>/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:
> 
>Option "XkbOptions"
> "grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> 
>It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(
> 
>Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on
> the Xfce panel,
>but could not find any.
> 
> 
> A short update: after installing xfce4-xkb-plugin, which was not
> included in the xfce4-meta package
> (and I did not noticed it earlier), I finally got a keyboard layout
> indicator. At first, it did not work, that is,
> I could not switch a keyboard layout in no way. However, later, after
> changing some of the plugin's
> settings, it suddenly started to switch the keyboard layout.
> Interestingly, the applet continued to switch
> the keyboard layout even after I have changed all its settings to the
> original ones. Magically, the 
> key also started to switch the keyboard layout.
> 
> So, my first and most important objection against Xfce4 is no more
> valid. The third one is not
> so important. Only the second is a bit annoying but one can live with
> it. :^)
> 
> Now, my Xfce4 looks almost like my Gnome2. Its weather applet is even
> more informative. :^)
> 
> However, my original question about Deficient Gnome Window Frames is
> still valid.
> 
> But not so important any more. :^)


Window decorations are usually done by the window manager, I assume
Gnome2 is no different?

Have you tried running a different window manager that supports what you
want?
What is the Gnome2 wm anyway? Metacity? (it's been so long since

Re: [gentoo-user] Deficient Gnome Window Frames

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 2:28 PM, gevisz  wrote:
> But I have not found MATE in portage...

I see there is a mate overlay available in layman

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Philip Webb  wrote:
> I just did 'emerge -pv digikam' for 3.3.0
> & it wants to install  54  pkgs, incl  systemd ;
>  10  pkgs are KDE & include Marble.
>
> Is my surprise justified ?

Yes, I think it is. Probably gphoto2 pulls GNOME stuff, which in turn
pulls systemd. Support for gphoto2 in digikam is optional, I belive;
the easiest solution is to USE="-gphoto2".

If you are willing to spend a little time investigating, I bet you can
install gphoto2 without systemd, but you need to see what is pulling
it. My bet would be PolicyKit.

The thing is, GNOME 3 now need systemd. Therefore, a lot of GNOME
packages are setting their defaults dependencies to pull packages in
such a way that systemd is one of them. If you don't use GNOME, but
install one of its packages (or something that pulls something else
from GNOME), you can pull *by default* systemd.

However, I'm pretty sure you can configure out systemd without too
much problem (if you don't use GNOME 3, that is).

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Walter Dnes]

On Fri, Sep 06, 2013 at 12:33:47PM -0400, Philip Webb wrote
> I just did 'emerge -pv digikam' for 3.3.0
> & it wants to install  54  pkgs, incl  systemd ;
>  10  pkgs are KDE & include Marble.
> 
> Is my surprise justified ?

  I run with...

USECPU="mmx mmxext sse sse2 sse3 ssse3"
USEOTHER=" X a52 aac bzip2 cxx dga dri exif ffmpeg flac fortran gallium
gif intel jpeg mng mp3 mpeg ncurses nptl nptlonly nsplugin offensive ogg
opengl openrc png posix readline ssl theora threads tiff tools truetype
vim-syntax vorbis xcomposite webm x264 xpm xv xvid zlib"
USE="-* ${USECPU} ${USEOTHER}"

...and a bare amd64 no-multilib profile.  I tried "emerge -pv digikam"
and had to build up USE one step at a time.  It looks like digikam has
been borged into KDE.  You apparently need to build 90% of KDE,
including marble, symantec-desktop, nepomuk, phonon, an sql database,
etc, etc, etc.  For a dependancy tree, try...

emerge -pvt --unordered-display digikam > tree.txt

...and see what you get.  It's probably a dependancy of a dependancy of
a dependancy, or something like that.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Jarry  wrote:
> On 06-Sep-13 18:29, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jarry  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:


 On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry  wrote:
>
>
> On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote:




 It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that
 pulled
 it in.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not
>>> remove now any "thing" that pulled it in. All I did was
>>> "emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world".
>>>
>>> As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were
>>> reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and
>>> linux-header updated. Nothing else.
>>>
>>> After that I did "emerge --depclean" and the above mentioned
>>> packages were suddenly removed...
>>>
>>
>> It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include
>> virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for
>> yourself:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log
>
>
>
>
> Then something got broken because I have packages installed
> that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are
> configured to send emails). And these packages do not have
> "mail" use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect
> standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system...
>
> So now I have "stable" system, updated to the latest level,
> where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never*
> happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear
> this change was premature...



 I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that
 pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet
>>> revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should,
>>> as cron can be configured to send emails too.
>>
>>
>> Read my last mail; they changed the RDEPEND for the cron eclass.
>>
>>> As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard
>>> *nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must
>>> be fixed to include mailer as dependency.
>>
>>
>> The devs disagree. I think I'm with them; the packages in question
>> actually work, it just happens that they can't send mails anymore. If
>> you need/want them to send mails, install an MTA.
>>
>
> "Just" can't send mails. So if mdadm detects failed drive in raid1
> and I do not get mail about it, I will discover it at least when
> the 2nd drive fails. That's a relief...

I believe we can trust Gentoo users to know when they have (or not) an MTA.

> Why is there no global use-variable "mta"? Why not even local
> for packages that might use mailer? This goes completely against
> Gentoo-principles, if user has to search which other packages are
> required and install them manually. Is it not what we have
> use-flags for?

The problem with USE flags is that they trigger a recompile when they
change. In this case a recompile is completely unnecessary, since the
package *works* with and without an MTA. As I said, the only
difference is that you can (or not) send mails.

I don't see a problem with that; if you need an MTA, install an MTA.
If you think is a problem, file a bug.

But I think it will be closed as WONTFIX.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] digikam + systemd

[Philip Webb]

130906 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> most likely there's a mismatch between USE for virtual/udev & sys-fs/eudev.

I don't have  eudev  installed.

(1) Portage wants  USE="plasma".
(2) kipi-plugins -> k3b -> USE="udisks".
(3) marble -> pykde4-4.11.0 -> USE="script".
(4) udisks -> USE="gudev".
(5) then I see :

  sys-apps/systemd-206-r3::gentoo (Change USE: +kmod)
  virtual/udev-206-r2::gentoo (Change USE: -kmod)

Adding  -kmod  to the USE list gets  54  pkgs, incl  systemd ,
which I've masked in  package.mask  with "sys-fs/systemd".

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca