Re: "Designed for FreeBSD" stickers
Rod Person wrote: Powered By FreeBSD badge... http://www.freebsdmall.com/cgi-bin/fm/bsdplate?id=RQKmKeZu&mv_pc=88 I got a batch years ago from ScotGold, which might be nearer for European buyers than freebsdmall: http://www.scotgold.com/acatalog/ScotGold_Catalogue_BSD_Daemon_Stuff_3.html -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: "Designed for FreeBSD" stickers
Richard Bradley wrote: ScotGold seems reasonably priced, but once you've bought their minimum order of 10, you're again paying almost £5. Is there a gap in the market? the question is if that would be economical. do you also buy paper clips one at a time? :) -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Has anybody EVER successfully recovered VINUM?
Yes I was too -- however I wasn't as impressed with the fact that I had parity errors afterwards. Have you run 'vinum checkparity' after these rebuilds? In my case I suffered data corruption... AFAIK the only way to guarantee a consistent rebuild is to do it offline (at least in 4.x, haven't tested gvinum in 5.x yet). To play it safe you might want to unmount the volume before starting. If this is indeed true, which I find a bit hard to believe, it should be fixed ASAP. I've never seen a RAID that had to be taken _offline_ to rebuild parity onto a failed and replaced drive. I've triggered rebuilds on a few so far, including h/w RAID, RAIDFrame and the Linux raid* thing, and it has always worked nicely while there was heavy load on the volume (with reduced performance during the rebuild, of course.) -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD or OpenBSD
Jay Moore wrote: Here's how you should decide: Go to the OpenBSD mailing list archives, select 25 or so threads at random, and read them. Do the same for the FreeBSD mailling list archives. Then, make your decision. And remember, it's not like getting married - you can change your mind anytime you like. A better idea might be to look at the hardware support of the individual systems first. Not much use to chose one, only to find out that it doesn't run on the hardware in question (for example, FreeBSD has problems on my notebook where NetBSD runs more or less ok'ish, but NetBSD won't even boot on another machine on which FreeBSD runs very well. I guess issues like that hold for OpenBSD aswell.) -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Linux kernel on FreeBSD
Loren M. Lang wrote: want. Now this does give me an idea, what about making Linux/FreeBSD, One problem might be that the BSD userland was written explicitly to work on BSD, that is, under the BSD kernel, and hence is inherently less portable than the part of the Linux userland that is the Gnu tools, which are rather portable and can be built on many systems. Therefore it is a probably a lot easier to get the Gnu userland running under a BSD kernel (the early Gnu tools were written for a "BSD-like" operating system) than the converse situation of running the rather specialized BSD userland on top of a Linux kernel. It is for sure possible but of rather questionable merit and most likely a lot more work than you'd want to invest. -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: i386 & amd64
Jorn Argelo wrote: Well, some things that are keeping me from the AMD64 version of FreeBSD is the lack of support for several programs. Including cvsup, and I don't know any other way to sync the ports-tree or the kernel sources. But that was with 5.2. 1. I am not sure if FreeBSD still lacks cvsup. That begs the question: can't one run i386 executables on amd64? I assumed that was not a problem? -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: migrating from thunderbird to mutt?
Nikolas Britton wrote: How do I get my old email (from thunderbird, mbox?) into mutt? TB keeps its local folders in mbox files at ~/.thunderbird/xyz.default/Mail/Local\ Folders. Just copy them over, or read them via mutt directly (and store the messages where you want them, typically ~/Mail). Can mutt handle um like 5+ email address and have them all separated and be able to send from diffrent email accounts? No. If I remember right mutt is just a mail reader, so how do I get mail to and sent from mutt? By setting up your MTA (sendmail, postfix, qmail). Alternatively, you can use mutt with pop3 or imap4 but its support for these protocols is primitive at best. And then you'd still have to configure sendmail for outgoing mail. How does it handle hyperlinks, if I select something will it open up in firefox or whatever? No. Message filtering, for example I have all the different freebsd mailing lists automatically put into different folders, and junk mail sorting? No. You have to setup procmail (or a similar program) to do that for you. Speell check? No. You have to setup your editor for running ispell or similar. -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: BSD equivalents of autoconf, automake, etc.
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Keep it Simple Stupid. A Makefile that has options settible by editing with a text editor, and a nice readme file that tells what all the settible options are, is infinitely superior than all the configure crap. That is all that the RPM and ports creators want from you. And the end users don't even want to compile your stuff in the first place, let alone see it's install script. I agree with that completely. Although I might add, that it is possible to write well-behaved configure-scripts. It's just that it needs about the same amount of cross-platform knowledge and testing than if you were hardcoding the stuff in Makefiles. -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: migrating from thunderbird to mutt?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: esmtp will contact the appropriate SMTP server on your behalf and will use the correct credentials to connect (if required). What happens if sending fails (for whatever temporary reason)? Will esmtp queue the mail, like a real MTA would? The issue is problematic with all those "minimalistic" pseudo-MTAs because mutt thinks it's delivering to a real sendmail, and hence doesn't handle failure gracefully (at least not afair). Mozilla otoh, initiating the smtp connection by itself, will let you retry, or save it to a Drafts folder. With mutt, your mail is probably gone. -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Simple, graphic, desktop calculator
RW wrote: kcalc can be a simple calculator, or a more complex programmer's/scientific calculator according to what options are checked on it's settings menu. And if all fails, there's still the good old xcalc, which is available on every X11 installation. -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: bash - superuser
Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: This is a particularly tenacious rumour. I've been using bash as my root shell on many different UNIX platforms for nearly 14 years, and I've never had any problems. I've also never seen any substantiated problems reported anywhere. Besides, when your favourite shell is hosed, you most likely cannot log in anyways, since usually root login is disabled for sshd. And then it's about the only case when it's getting tough.. when it's a machine that's hosted somewhere in a rack at a hosing provider, probably one of the most common situations today in business environments. When one has physical access to the machine, it's a non-issue. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: migrating from thunderbird to mutt?
Joshua Lokken wrote: Message filtering, for example I have all the different freebsd mailing lists automatically put into different folders, and junk mail sorting? No. You have to setup procmail (or a similar program) to do that for you. Wrong. Mutt'll do it just fine. Just wondering; have you ever used or seen Mutt? Of course. I've used it since elm came out of fashion, about 8 years ago or so, until about 1-2 years ago, when I switched to Mozilla because I'm dealing with a multitude of mail folders on multiple imap servers today. How would this filtering work inside mutt? Apparently, it's something non-obvious. I've never seen anything like that while using mutt, and always used procmail "back then". mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
named exits on SIGHUP?
Hi folks, when I kill -HUP named on 5.3 (BIND 9), it exits, instead of reloading, as stated in the manpage. Is this normal? I think it's rather impractical, since it prevents proper log rotation through newsyslog.conf (when using "file" logging in named.conf). It doesn't seem to matter if it's running chrooted or not. mkb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: named exits on SIGHUP?
Joerg Pulz wrote: i tried 'rndc reload' and it's working and did not cause the named process to exit. maybe '/etc/rc.d/named' should be changed to use this as reload command. Yes, this works here also. In the long run, it would probably be a good idea to make newsyslog understand arbitrary commands for restarting, instead of just sending a signal. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: kern.maxfiles formula?
Kris Kennaway wrote: A truly enormous number :-) You just need to increase the value of kern.maxfiles in /boot/loader.conf as appropriate for your workload. would it be possible to make this dynamically allocated in the future? imho, such limits are a bit anachronistic. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Recommended Mail Transfer Agent
Bill Moran wrote: I've been using Dovecot for quite some time now. It's not even a 1.0 product yet, and I still find it excellent for both POP and IMAP. It includes support for both POP3S and IMAPS, which I find very important in this day and age. I've had bad experience so far with dovecot, including, but not limited to, lock file problems, hung imap processes in the bulk, and behaviour that neither matched the comments in the sample config file, nor the documentation (and both were contradictory), like the way to configure inbox and folder locations. Unless the OP has the time and resources to experiment, I'd suggest leaving that software alone for a while still until it has been stabilized, and go for proven alternatives like Cyrus or Courier (or even uw-imapd, if it's a one-person setup). mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: kern.maxfiles formula?
Kris Kennaway wrote: Having a hard limit is by design, or users could run your machine out of memory and cause it to panic. # sysctl -w kern.maxfiles=2 kern.maxfiles: 12328 -> 2 Ok, I agree. Must've confused something here. I was under the impression that it was fixed at boot. The user issue could be tackled with ulimit, however probably not in a completely satisfactory way (with resource limits being per-process, not per-user. Sometimes a bit of VMS would be nice ;). mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: SpamAssassin-Milter accuracy...
Louis LeBlanc wrote: Use with care. Some spam rbls are overly zealous, and often block out whole netblocks just because one IP has been reported as an offender. And all dialup networks. Which can lead to the bizarre situation that if you're relaying through your mail server from a dialup IP, and mail goes thru SA, you'll get a high score. There're several ways to prevent this from happening, of course, for example, to run an extra smtpd on a nonstandard port that doesn't push mails through SpamAssassin, or just to disable the damn RBL stuff in the SA config (I did both, greylisting is more effective than the suspicious RBL stuff anyways). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: BASIC WEB SERVER HELP
Satori Seal - Dale T. McGrosky wrote: The web server program will be PARADOX as this computer will access data through a Sonic wall firewall to our file server. Will FreeBSD 5.3 be a good operating system for us that will provide excellent security? From what I gathered from the web, it appears as if "PARADOX" is MS Windows-only software. Or am I mistaken here? mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: how do I permit ordinary users to mound SCSI devices ?
Kevin Smith wrote: How do I permit ordinary users to mound SCSI devices ? As suggested in the FAQ, section 9, I am able to allow members of operator group mount the cdrom by setting sysctl -w vfs.usrmount=1 This does not appear to work with SCSI devices. (ex: /dev/da0s2) I get the error: > mount -t msdos /dev/da0s2 ~/ipod msdosfs: /dev/da0s2: Permission denied the last time I was bitten by that issue, the mount point had to be owned by the user (group write access apparently isn't enough). that's a bit of a problem with things like gui mounters and I hope that that behaviour will be changed sometime in the future. at least I can't see any security problems with a user being able to mount over a mountpoint where he only has group write access. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD on Sun SPARC 20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've got a Sun SPARC 20 collecting dust, and I was wondering if any version of FreeBSD would run on my Sun SPARC 20? From what I can gather FreeBSD only works on UltraSPARC. Maybe not FreeBSD but both NetBSD and Solaris work very well on the Sparc 20, and they're available for free. (Well, actually if your SS20 has more than one CPU, you'd have to get a commercial license for Solaris 9, and shouldn't use the free license, since that's only for one CPU but I mean, it's hardly stealing candies from little children, is it... and reportedly Solaris 10 will be "open source" anyways, so what.) mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD on Sun SPARC 20
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Also, with a Sparc 20 try to load a copy of Solaris 2.6 rather than a later copy, it will run faster and Sun still releases patches for it. Hmm, I don't know if that's worth it. I run Solaris 9 on an SS20 (2x 60MHz SM61, 224MB RAM) and am very satisfied with its performance. I have run Solaris 2.5.1 aswell as 7, 8 and 9 on various SS5 (all 110mhz MicroSparc, ~128mb RAM average), and Solaris 9 seemed to me to be the best performing system on that old hardware (of course it always pays to disable some of the crud that it normally starts at boot, but that holds for all SunOSen). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ghostscript install error on 5.3-RELEASE
Chandler May wrote: Never mind, I just deleted work and the ghostscript folder from distfiles... the installation is working now. So far so good - it has gotten farther than before, I think. You might want to file a PR that the port is broken with certain options (with sendpr, or via the web form at http://www.freebsd.org/send-pr.html). mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: xorg and xfree86
Vulpes Velox wrote: Xorg beat XFree86 out in regards of features in the newest release. And in regards of bugs. I've never seen so many random BadWindow errors when doing remote X than I have with X.org. Not even old DEC and HP R5 servers were so bugged. But of course stability is for bean counters... it's much more important to add heaps of new gizmos to support the latest Gn0m3 eyecandy extravaganza. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: file roo large !!
Malcolm Kay wrote: Is it really possible to have a ext3fs mount under FBSD 5.3? I know you can mount an ext2fs file system and an existing linux ext3fs will probably mount successfully (without journaling) as an ext2fs; but is this what are you trying to do? I've last mounted ext2 on 5.2.1 (it was probably considered broken then since the module was excluded from the kernel build and had to be uncommented explicitly in the Makefile) and encountered a 2gb file size limit. Perhaps this problem isn't completely resolved yet? mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Serial communication, terminal
Florian Hengstberger wrote: I have a microcontroller with an uart interface. I want to communicate with my computer through the serial port of my FreeBSD box. Is it somehow possible to connect the serial io to a xterm? Case it is not: I don't want to write a program myself - is there an existing program handling the io? kermit (ports/comms/kermit) is probably the most widely used terminal program, and it has more features and communications protocols than you'd ever need (including scriptability). cu has already been mentioned, tip is similar, and minicom is another one, imitating DOS-style terminal emulators (telix, telemate), although it's a bit inflexible. mkb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: del key in bash or tcsh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know how to change this annoying default behaviour of bash or sh in FreeBSD when somebody presses the del key? When I press the del key I want this to work as it works on any editor or in Linux bash! Anyway to achieve this? as we cannot guess what the behaviour that you desire actually is, I'm contributing a few tips: - configure xterm (or the terminal emulator you're using) to emit the appropriate key sequence when the "delete" key is hit. In xterm, this can be done via X resources, see xterm(1). For example, make it send ^?. - set the terminal line discipline's erase key to that key (see stty(1)), or use bash's readline keybindings functionality to bind that key to the function you like. I'm not that familiar with readline or bash but it's doable and described in either the bash manpage, or readline's documentation (info files). For sh which command controls the color? none. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
apm on 5.3
I'm trying to get APM to work (ACPI makes the kernel crap itself when I insert or remove a pcmcia card into my Armada m700 notebook) and load the apm.ko from loader.conf. However, it doesn't seem to create the necessary device entry /dev/apm, and apmd and apm(8) complain about that. What's the proper way to enable apm on 5.3-STABLE? Or, any way to enable it at all? Do I have to compile the driver into the kernel instead? mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Cut and paste in Emacs
Kris Maglione wrote: I, personally, still don't completely understand the entire unix/X cut buffer system. First, there is more than one cut buffer, but I doubt that that's your problem. Second, there is select-to-copy and select+right click.../ctrl+c/... to copy. These use two different X11 cut&paste is a mess.. the OP might try to use xclipboard as an intermediate target. It often works, when two programs use different mechanisms for selections. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: I need a cuppa...
Jonathan Chen wrote: Blame Sun; they don't make it easy for organizations like FreeBSD to release a binary version of Java. Even Apple doesn't show up in their radar... what do you expect. Java is as proprietary as it gets. (Unfortunately many of us need it.) mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: I need a cuppa...
Chuck Swiger wrote: Even Apple doesn't show up in their radar... what do you expect. This is untrue. The Mac Runtime for Java is a high-priority environment for both Apple When I go to java.sun.com, I can download the jdk for: Linux, Windows, Solaris. That's what I meant. Java is as proprietary as it gets. (Unfortunately many of us need it.) Nonsense. While Java isn't OSI Open Source compliant, it's more open than anything which *doesn't* come with the sources included. Proprietary is proprietary. Java is not standardized, Sun has an iron clutch on it (you can't name a reimplementation "Java[tm]"), and, in contrast to Sun's marketing spindoctors, it's a rather unportable environment (not the least due to Sun's licensing policy). So what's "open" there? The fact that you may download it without license fees for a selected few systems, and that they document their product? mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: I need a cuppa...
Chuck Swiger wrote: If you choose not to see any distinction between software which is freely available and comes with source code, and between other forms of software which neither comes with source nor is free, fine. No. "Open" has for a long time referred to "industry standard", before it was used for free software. But java is neither. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD I LOVE YOU
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Indeed, someone in the Third World without the means to buy a new PC and an expensive Windows license could find a junk PC and install FreeBSD on And where do you think would they "find" this "junk PC"? Don't you think that's a bit condescending? Like, "let's give those negroes our old shoes"? They can perfectly well buy new machines at local retailers (there are some in bigger cities) for a fraction of the money that it would take you to ship'em your old rustbucket. Why don't you send some money instead? mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: My 'ls' is all messed up?!
Happens sometimes to me when some characters from a binary file are displayed on the screen as is. Or, some other stty(1) setting. Typing reset/tset(1) or closing-and-/opening another xterm(1) works for me. Xterm i say for that i use most than console. or ctrl+ in xterm, which pops up a menu, from which you can select "full reset". ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD I LOVE YOU
Scott Bennett wrote: And so your preference would be that the machines should go to a landfill rather than to someone who can't afford a computer at all? Here in the Civilized World, we recycle the materials used in computers (well, most of them), we don't throw them into the sea. You sound awfully willing to spend other people's money. Perhaps you should ask them to buy you some texts on economics. Perhaps you should attempt to do some calculations and try to find out which is actually less expensive, and at the same time, provides bigger benefit. Apart from the fact that a person who speaks Arabic or Indonesian, or Pashtu probably has little use for a "kewl-themed" blackbox desktop, or something like that. That works for us latin-script Unix geeks with a working knowledge of English but certainly not for an average user in the 3rd World. And anything that gets near internationalization on Unix or Linux, namely KDE and Gnome, requires even more powerful hardware than "Windoze" and probably still doesn't have the kind of local language integration that a localized version of Windows has. Wake up from your pipe dreams. Shipping decommissioned computers to the 3rd world is not going to solve any development problem. Cheap Asian computers with a pirated localized version of XP Home and Office are a lot more effective here. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD I LOVE YOU
Colin J. Raven wrote: Eh? Surely you don't meant trashed - physically annihilated? Phew! I believe in radical solutions certainly, but..umm..isn't that going just a little bit too far? :-) I'm assuming you mean destructively formatted... Surely that depends on what was on them. The disks from Internet Cafe computers are most likely unproblematic. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: PDF file editor
E. J. Cerejo wrote: Is there a port that allows you to edit a pdf file or fill it in? acroread (/usr/ports/print). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: sensitive data on disks (was: FreeBSD I LOVE YOU)
John wrote: What do you folks have on your hard drives that is worth thousands of dollars and weeks of time for someone to recover? Err.. I'd guess that most people who use their machine for business have sensitive data on it that can easily be at least a couple thousand dollars worth... for companies that could easily be many millions, of course. Customer databases, or strategy plans can ruin a company, if falling into the wrong hands. If it was as easy as you describe, we'd rarely need backups. Your disk drive crash? Oh, just bring it to the local recovery service and they'll get all your data back for $9.95. NOT It doesn't cost $9.95 but for $9950 you'd probably stand a good chance of getting (hopefully large) parts of your data back. After all, there're enough companies specialized in just that. A friend of mine did employ a data recovery company on such an incident not too long ago. mkb. P.S.: As a side note, I recommend using some kind of crypto block driver for laptops, on NetBSD I use cgd, which works very well, on FreeBSD there's gbde, although I've never used it and don't know how reliable it is. The performance hit is acceptable, with cgd, I get ca. 50% the write performance on my old Armada my700, so it doesn't really affect ordinary use. I understand that there exist similar things for Windoze aswell, don't know if it's in XP Pro out of box, aswell as probably for MacOS X. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD I LOVE YOU
David Gerard wrote: So something around 500MHz will happily run Pango and the other cutting-edge internationalisation stuff if you fill it with memory. My experience is that with a 500Mhz Pentium 3 (512K cache, 512mb RAM, Matrox G450 AGP graphics), Gnome (2.6 tested) is unbearably slow. A large factor here is the Xft font rendering (Ok, you could use xterm instead of gnome-terminal, or switch off antialiasing), which is unaccelerated (at least was then), and _brutally_ slow. If you run something with copious output in gnome-terminal, it'll more or less lock up the entire machine. I don't normally use Gnome, but evaluated it on that old machine for some reason that is of no interest here. KDE is a bit faster, don't know why, but seems to use more RAM. IMHO you need at least a 2.8 or 3GHz P-IV for that kind of desktop to get things to run well, and, in my experience, raw CPU power here is the dominating factor. Of course these machines are still perfectly usable with windowmaker, or fvwm, or similar. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD I LOVE YOU
David Gerard wrote: My experience is that with a 500Mhz Pentium 3 (512K cache, 512mb RAM, Matrox G450 AGP graphics), Gnome (2.6 tested) is unbearably slow. A I have read that pango is grossly CPU-hungry, but that the project is keenly aware of the problem. (But refuses to do the easy thing of special I never understood why they couldn't use pre-rendered glyphs when the background is a uniform white, or sth. like that. Anyways. Compare it with Quake3, which ran very well on the above hardware. Just to see in what ballpark today's "modern" desktops are, when apparently they don't seem to do much, they do in fact burn CPU cycles like hell. Of course Q3 is hardware accelerated, but still. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: How to identify xterm font
Sergei Gnezdov wrote: I like the size of the xterm window. It is small and it uses very easy to read font. Unfortunately, it does not play very well with emacs. For these reasons I use Gnome terminal. Gnome font is bigger, thus it takes more space on the screen. How do I identify which font is used by xterm, so I can apply it for gnome terminal? Gnome terminal uses Xft, so I'd say you'd first have to mess with fontconfig and alias your xterm core font to an appropriate Xft font. I also would like to know why my ~/.Xdefaults configuration is not applied in Gnome. It worked just fine in KDE and most other environments. try ln -s .Xdefaults .Xresources ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD 5.3 I/O Performance / Linux 2.6.10
Chris wrote: In addition, was on OS running a window manager and the other not? Was I seriously doubt that raw disk performance of such a test is noticably affected by the existence of a window manager, or sshd... mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD 5.3 I/O Performance / Linux 2.6.10
Oliver Fuchs wrote: Maybe there is a performance problem with FreeBSD - but again that was not his question. I don't know why people are so obsessed with performance.. after all, you can't really load stock Unix systems properly anyways (like, say, an IBM mainframe, which you can keep at 90+% loaded all the time), so it really doesn't matter, as long as the machine is "fast enough". What matters a _lot_ more, imho, is stability and robustness, and imho here the attention should lie at this early stage of the 5.x tree. 5.3 robustness is far from spectacular, there're too many ugly bugs still around to bother about peak performance improvements just yet. Make it reliable first, and only then fast. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD 5.3 I/O Performance / Linux 2.6.10 | Continued Discussion
Petri Helenius wrote: Are you sure you aren't comparing filesystems with different mount options? Async comes to mind first. a) ext3 and xfs are logging filesystems, so the problem with asynchronous metadata updates possibly corrupting the filesystem on a crash doesn't arise. b) asynchronous metadata updates wouldn't have any performance benefit on a dd if=/dev/zero of=tstfile. c) please cut down your quotes, and write your answers below or between the quoted text, instead of the outlook text-above-fullquote style. thanks. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Remote FreeBSD Installation
Jacob S wrote: http://www.daemonology.net/depenguinator/ The penguin shall fall ;) Looks nice. Thanks! But make sure first how much a re-setup costs you. Or how much they charge for "remote hands". Or at best, get some eRic II or DRAC remote management card option. I think it's safer to assume that your system will become completely botched up, so better be safe than sorry. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Partition Size
Jerry McAllister wrote: This 'rest of the disk' should be divided up into chunks that can be dump(8)ed to one backup media if possible. Otherwise you will get sloppy and not do backups because it is harder. Since there is a What kind of nonsense is this? I've never heard about such an advise, and it doesn't make sense to me. Surely dumping a filesystem to multiple tapes isn't more, most likely less, effort than dumping n filesystems to one tape each. The only case this doesn't hold is when you're using amanda, but that's hardly a home setup, and comes with a special backup discipline anyways. Actually, I doubt that many people use tape backup at home, considering how outrageously expensive the stuff is, and the inexpensiveness of usb disks these days, which are a lot easier to handle than tapes. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: No disklabel, but it still boots
Pete Yandell wrote: $ disklabel -r ad6 ~ disklabel: bad pack magic number (label is damaged, or pack is unlabeled) The disklabel is on ad6s1, not on ad6. The kernel does automatically generate "fictitious" labels for unlabeled disks, no matter if it's being used for BSD, or not. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: X11 / keyboard emacs?
Tom Vilot wrote: What I don't understand is how to make that global. That is, applied to all Window Managers. If I run AfterStep or WindowMaker, these keyboard bindings do not apply and I can't figure out how to make them apply irrespective of the window manager currently running. have you tried to include the above bindings in your $HOME/.gtkrc-2.0 file? maybe then it will get read by all applications using the gtk 2.x toolkit. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: X11 / keyboard emacs?
Tom Vilot wrote: have you tried to include the above bindings in your $HOME/.gtkrc-2.0 file? maybe then it will get read by all applications using the gtk 2.x toolkit. Thank you thank you thank you ... This has been driving me bonkers! It's not a systemwide setting .. but that's okay. In my home directory will do . actually I think it's a little more involved.. or not. the bindings alone will probably not do, you also have to activate them. for an ordinary theme, you simply include in your .gtkrc-2.0 the line gtk-theme-name = "Foobar" maybe gtk-theme-name = "Emacs" will already work. if not, you somehow have to attach the defined bindings to the appropriate widgets; you probably have to google around a bit, or look it up how it's done in other theme files, since the gtk developers haven't deemed it necessary to document the gtkrc syntax (...) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: X11 / keyboard emacs?
I wrote: maybe gtk-theme-name = "Emacs" will already work. That didn't work but one apparently can include files. The following line appended to ~/.gtkrc-2.0 enabled "emacs" keybindings for me in the text entry widgets: include "/usr/X11R6/share/themes/Emacs/gtk-2.0-key/gtkrc" Don't know if that's the "proper" way to do that but it seems to work ok (no warnings when starting gtk2 apps). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: OpenGL hardware acceleration with FreeBSD 5.3
Jorn Argelo wrote: Of course. You want to use Linux drivers, so you need Linux compatibility. he doesn't need linux drivers. the g400 has been supported by XFree for many years, including DRI. I can't quite see a problem with his xorg config, maybe he has installed some mesa port, which overwrote the corresponding base X11 libraries (happened to me once)? to michael madden: make sure $ pkg_info|grep -i mesa comes up empty. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Java Runtime Environment (JRE)?
Clint Olsen wrote: I was cruising around the ports system, looking for JRE-1.5 or an equivalent, so I can get Java applets to run in Firefox. Is there a Linux port of this since Sun does binary releases of this? pkgsrc/lang/sun-jre15 (requires linux emulation) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Java Runtime Environment (JRE)?
I wrote: pkgsrc/lang/sun-jre15 err.. wrong list, wrong OS (although pkgsrc also supports freebsd). you may want to look at ports/java/jdk15, or one of the linux-*-jdk15 in the same directory. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Java Runtime Environment (JRE)?
Gert Cuykens wrote: So is the linux emulation a bad thing or a good thing, i dont understand very well what we need to do here to have java 1.5 in firefox on my amd 64 ? sorry :) Linux emulation is both a good, and a bad thing. Good, because software that is available only for Linux (usually binary-only, closed-source) can be run on FreeBSD, and bad, because it removes an (albeit small) incentive to port applications to FreeBSD (or NetBSD, ...). I've never used java with firefox so I can't help you there. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: does freebsd has a bit torrent client ?
Gert Cuykens wrote: find / -name "*torrent*" or just "locate torrent|grep ports", when weekly/310.locate has run at least once (that is, it won't work right after installation, unless you've run the script manually). /usr/ports is not normally exempt from updatedb. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: does freebsd has a bit torrent client ?
Gert Cuykens wrote: please dont tell me bittorent just installed mozilla and all that phyton ... to go to the internet and show the face of the developer when you do this : ( bittorrent is written in python, so you probably can't do without it. the thing about mozilla, well. freebsd ports are infamous for having outrageously pathetic dependencies sometimes (sometimes I think, a port maintainer just adds everything currently installed on his own machine to the depencency list, just so that it "works for me, works for you"). mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: BSD
Gert Cuykens wrote: Come on guy's admit it, it all started with making a Free Boobies Search Device for the internet :P crap.. he found out about it... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: uhexen, doom, heretic, etc...
Mike Hauber wrote: I've built/installed these games from the ports tree, and they start fine. However, the sound is terrible. The sound card seems to be echoing each sound at least 5 times. This, in turn, slows the games down. the sound server of the doom-derived games has always been terrible.. in the past, it had been lagging ~5 seconds or so. when I played those games on linux or freebsd years ago (especially heretic), I usually listened to some inspiring sound tracks from CD instead of the game sound. ;) mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: having 1.5GB RAM I cannot allocate more than 512MB RAM in 4.10
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an AMD Athlon-XP with 1.5GB RAM. Unfortunately my FreeBSD 4.10 throws a memory allocation error when in a simple C++ program I try to allocate with new 512MB of RAM or more. Until 511MB it goes fine! what's the output of ulimit -d? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: having 1.5GB RAM I cannot allocate more than 512MB RAM in 4.10
John wrote: what's the output of ulimit -d? You must be using a csh-derivative. It is a built-in for the Bourne- shell family of shells. the csh correspondent is "limit". it only affects the shell and its children (so put a setting in /etc/profile, /etc/csh.login, or configure the limit via /etc/login.conf if you want it to be global). mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Graphviz fonts
Kirk Strauser wrote: I've tried adding every Truetype font path on my system to its "fontpath" variable, but I get the same error but with a much longer list of directories. Any ideas? have you tried running fc-cache? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: having 1.5GB RAM I cannot allocate more than 512MB RAM in 4.10
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the output of my ulimit: #ulimit -a | grep data data seg size (kbytes, -d) 524288 # So what is next? Is it possible to embed that information in the kernel? Or, how is this information set by default? Is there any specific .conf file I should edit? the ulimit (or limit on csh) shell builtin sets the process limits (see getrlimit(2)) for the current process (and its children). please consult your shell's manual for the syntax of limit/ulimit. run it in your shell startup files, or set the limits in /etc/login.conf for your login class. you can bump up the limits up to the hard limit (limit -h, ulimit -Ha). mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ee editor rules :)
Ruben de Groot wrote: Does anyone have an "Idiots guide to VI"? There isn't. vi was never meant to be used by idiots ;-) au contraire.. read the shocking truth about vi.. the story the CIA doesn't want you to know about.. the story of Vince Idiot: http://www.sbernard.ee/vince.html mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: mx2.freebsd.org in dnsbl.sorbs.net
Erik Norgaard wrote: How on earth did it end up there? are someone mad at us? mx1 is not listed, but it appears that most list mail comes from mx2... JFYI, from Matthew Sullivan, SORBS operator: > Listed in Error - removed. > Regards, > Mat mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
Jeremy C. Reed wrote: (Nevertheless, it is not time to advertise FreeBSD as a "desktop" alternative.) This is not so much about FreeBSD, as the Unix+X11 combination in general. It does not provide the fully integrated system the typical end-user, coming from a Windows or Mac perspective, expects. That it nevertheless works well enough for persons with a technical or academical background, and those who invest some time, is not questioned. What the Unix+X11 combination in its current blend doesn't provide is the one-size-fits-all solution that Windows and the Mac try to achieve. That's both a good and a bad thing, imho. There are, of course, situations where Unix is being used as a "desktop" successfully. Think about Unix workstations at universities and larger companies, which have been prevalent for the last 15 years. Or the city administration of Munich, which intends to move its Windows desktops to a Linux/KDE-based installation. What these applications have in common is, that the desktop user is normally different from the person maintaining the installation. This is different from a SOHO setup, where both are normally identical. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Or the city administration of Munich, which intends to move its Windows desktops to a Linux/KDE-based installation. Why not just burn taxpayer euro in a bonfire? It would have the same end result and it would be faster. Well, if you just run a set of 1-3 applications, and don't do anything else with the computer, there shouldn't be much of a difference. Think, for example, of the software that the clerks feed applications for driving licenses or passports into. That's (most likely) one do-it-all software running on the terminal-like PC all the time. Or a secretary, using some kind of office software (I don't know if they consider OpenOffice). Apart from making a political statement, the advantage is of course being independent from the Microsoft update cycle. Of course whether it's cheaper having the inhouse staff or a consulting firm update the Linux desktops needs to be evaluated first (and I'm sure they did). Another point, as far as I got it, was security, i.e., higher resilience towards worms and viruses. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
Johnson David wrote: Currently Windows rules the desktop world, even for diehard Unix shops. But that will not last forever. We need to start thinking about the desktop today. We need to stop the official discouragement of desktop FreeBSD. MacOS X is the "Desktop BSD". It is available today, and it works better than anything else at being a "desktop". Considering the sorry state of integrated "desktops" on Unix today (i.e., Gnome and KDE) and compare it with Windows, do you really think that will convince any Windows user? Windows really is bad enough already, why should they change for a much worse user interface. For those of us that have been using X11 with various window managers for the last decade or more, that isn't an issue -- we're used to a different way of working, but those Windows types expect quite different things, which they'll only find in MacOS, outside of Windows, for the forseeable future. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
Robert Marella wrote: MacOS X is the "Desktop BSD". It is available today, and it works better than anything else at being a "desktop". Does it work on my intel hardware? And your point is..? mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. Beastie is a way of life. I'd be quite upset if it were dropped for whatever reason. It is so intimately tied to FreeBSD that it would be a PR disaster if it were to be changed. NetBSD never had a real The BSD daemon image stems from around 4.3BSD, or an even earlier release, not FreeBSD. It can therefore never be specific for the FreeBSD system, in the same way Ronald McDonald doesn't stand for the Big Mac alone, but rather for the entire company. In earlier years, before the general hype about Linux and *BSD, I've seen the image being used in presentations about Unix in general. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Freebsd vs. linux
Chris wrote: I will agree on this point - A server does not NEED to a WM (none of mine do). However, I am speaking from a desktop point of view. Can you please move that discussion to a newsgroup, or to private mail? Thanks. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Can't mount partitions with soft-updates enabled with async option
Lefteris Tsintjelis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >I am not sure if I do something wrong here or it is suppose to work that >way but the async option doesn't seem to work for partitions that have >soft-updates turned on. Can someone please clarify the difference and if >the speed difference (if any) is significant when using the async option >instead of the soft-updates for cases such as the /usr/obj or as a squid >data storage? Is async preferred over soft-updates when data loss is not >a big issue? With softupdates, everything is asynchronous so the option doesn't make sense. For improving squid filesystem performance, have you mounted the partition with noatime? That might make some difference. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Can't mount partitions with soft-updates enabled with asyncoption
"Darren Pilgrim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >No. With softupdates, file writes are asynchronous, but writes to >filesystem structures (metadata) are synchronous to prevent filesystem >corruption if the machine crashes. The async mount option writes both That's wrong. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
disk write barriers
Hi folks, I'd like to know something about the (possible) existence of disk write-barriers in FreeBSD. I often read the advice that one should disable write-back caching on modern disks in order to make softupdates actually work. Unfortunately, disabling the write-back cache on typical ATA/SATA consumer disks involves a severe performance hit (my Seagate SATA drive here drops to 1/5th sequential write speed, probably worse for a random workload, and so this workaround isn't really an option.) Now I've stumbled across: http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/5/15/88 in which someone claims that FreeBSD "used ... write barriers long ago". Write-barriers are a kind of synchronization point around critical writes (i.e., those which need to be kept in a certain order), where the block level drivers disable (or flush) the cache before the barrier, and reenable it afterwards. Windows has been doing that for a long time in order to make their NTFS halfway reliable (amazing that they got something right). Linux apparently also has write-barriers, although for SATA only in the most recent 2.6 kernels. Now my question is: Does FreeBSD also implements these barriers, or an equivalent mechanism, as claimed on the above URL? If it does, why then the frequent advice to disable write-back caching? Or is that only for the couple drives that ignore any flush cache/disable wb commands? I know my drive doesn't ignore that command (since performance drops sharply, when I disable the cache), so I would be on the safe side. Would it be possible to get an authoritative statement from a FreeBSD developer here on that matter? Thanks. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Weird "nice" behavior
Lowell Gilbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE
>>
>> I'm trying to do a large local rsync in the background, while listening to
>> streaming audio via RealPlayer and do other stuff. I have the rsync
>> running at nice level 20 ("nice -20") which I've confirmed via ps:
Please try: http://www.chesapeake.net/~jroberson/flushbuf.diff
before this discussion degenerates into the usual handwaving.
The patch seems to fix some awful performance issue with certain disk
i/o loads in 5.4. I don't know whether it's included in 5.4-stable by
now.
mkb.
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Re: Account password expiration
Mike Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >Is there a way in 5.x to have account passwords expire every 180 days? Or I >should say N days really. I think this was once tunable in /etc/login.conf >but thats has been repalced with PAM. man pw pw.conf mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: disk write barriers
Lowell Gilbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >Do you have a background in OS design? It affects the answer, because >you seem to be referring to access barriers and disk cache flushes >interchangeably, which doesn't make sense, especially on >multiprocessor systems. >From what I understand from some googling, disk write barriers are specially crafted i/o requests (within the vfs/driver infrastructure) that are acted on by block drivers as following: all requests before a barrier request will be completed before any request that follows the barrier is executed. The driver accomplishes that by issuing the respective flush commands (or uses queue ordering or whatever is supported by the drive) or (in the case of IDE/SATA), may disable and reenable the cache on a barrier. Thus, the barrier maintains an on-disk ordering in requests between "earlier" and "later" requests (otherwise the driver and/or the disk could reorder writes at will). Since the system doesn't actually run with the cache disabled because it's only used for flushing at sequence points, neither performance nor drive wearout is negatively influenced (noticably, that is). An actual application of this is, with journaled filesystems, that the journal will get written to disk before the data is updated. This will guarantee filesystem integrity. From what I understand, MS Windows is doing it that way, and Linux is also using that mechanism (with support for SATA disks only in the latest 2.6 kernel, though.) >The problem with caching has nothing to do with flushing the cache; if >you flush the cache often, there's no advantage to using it anyway. >The whole speedup from using on-disk caching comes from the fact that >the drive reorders the writes at will, and lies to the operating >system by saying the writes are done when they aren't. Among other Apparently, performance (and wear&tear) is not overly negatively influenced, since it's used only for periodic flushing after the journal has been written (or potentially, at other events, such as a sync() or fsync() etc.) >obvious problems, this negates the careful ordering calculated by >softupdates. That's where my headaches start. Softupdates doesn't write a journal at intervals but seems to order writes in general, in a continuous way. Therefore, it would appear that there are no such sequence points. I'm not really aware of the details of how softupdates works, so I'm probably wrong. I only know that running with the cache disabled seems to be the only safe way to assure that the ordering done by softupdates isn't broken. But disabling the cache is a no-no on modern drives, since they are constructed to be used with the cache on, and disabling it will yield terrible performance and significantly reduce the MTBF, at least on IDE/SATA drives (I'm not talking about enterprise-grade 15krpm SCSI drives, where the situation might be different). So what's the recommended procedure? Relying on an UPS or that the power will not fail? I mean, I could run fully asynch then and the whole softupdates is of little use, except for (relatively rare) occasions of a kernel crash. >This doesn't follow. Just because you know that your drive supports >disabling the cache does not mean that it is safe to do so. Why is that so? mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: procmail kill problems in dmesg?
Matt Juszczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >Procmail is the only one segfaulting with signal 11. POP3 has exiting >with signal 6 a few times, but only a few, and its been sporadic. I assume that you've checked that you're running the latest version (or ports version) of procmail? mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: FreeBSD Serial ATA hard drives support
DMVN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >Q: Does the FreeBSD 5.4 support SerialATA hard drives? >I tried to install previous version (5.3) on the machine >with 160GB Seagate Barracuda (8mb cache) drive (ST3160023AS). >It said something like "no hard drive found". ad4: 152627MB [310101/16/63] at ata2-master SATA150 What controller do you have? I've got Intel ICH6 here onboard. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Make Image of Hard Drive
Phusion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >I recently built a FreeBSD server, and was wondering how I can make an >image of the hard drive. I am going to build an another FeeBSD server >using identical hardware. How can I make an image of the hard drive of >the original server I built and copy/install it to the new server? >Each server has a 6.4 GB hard drive. Is there a way I can create an >image then install via the network to a new server in the future if >need be? Let me know. http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/ mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Gqview permantly frozen
Lawrence Petrykanyn wrote: >I am unable to navigate the directory tree as simply nothing happens >when I click on File, View, etc. or any of the icons. I was able to use >it fine in 5.3, but have done a clean install of 5.4 since. Have you tried to rm -rf ~/.gqview and possibly .thumbnails? mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: dangerous situation with shutdown process
Jon Dama wrote: >Request Barriers under linux exist to prevent the low level kernel block >device layer from reordering write operations from the upper file system >layers. Request Barriers consist of nothing more than tagging internal >queues within the Linux kernel itself. They do nothing to resolve the >underlying failures of the hardware to provide proper semantics to the >block device layer. >but, Request Barriers are ultimately useless. They can't resolve the >underlying problems with ide/sata and there are already exposed semantics >for scsi. If you flush the cache at barriers, on-disk integrity of the journal vs. metadata updates is guaranteed. mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: dangerous situation with shutdown process
Lowell Gilbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >Jon Dama <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> however, journaling fairs no better, and request barriers do nothing to >> solve the problem. > >I had assumed that the sequence of operations in a journal would be >idempotent. Is that a reasonable design criterion? [If it is, then >it would make up for the fact that you can't build a reliable >transaction gate. That is, you would just have to go back far enough >that you *know* all of the needed journal is within the range you will >replay. But even then, the journal would need to be on a separate >medium, one that doesn't have the "lying to you about transaction >completion" problem.] No, it needn't. It is sufficient that the journal entries for a block of updates that are to follow are on disk before the updates are made. That's all. This can be achieved by inserting a write barrier request in between the journal writes and the actual data/metadata writes. The block driver will, when it sees the barrier, a) write out all requests in its queue that it got before the barrier, and b) flush the cache so that they will not get intermixed by the drive with the following data writes. What could happen now when the power goes away at an inopportune moment? [Note that I'm only talking about filesystem integrity, not general data loss.] * If power goes away before the journal is written, nothing happens. * If the journal is partially written, and power goes away, it will be partially replayed at boot but the filesystem will be consistent. * If power goes away, when the journal is fully written, but no metadata updates have been performed, they will be performed at boot and everything is as if the full request has completed before power went out. * If power goes away when the journal is fully written, and parts of the metadata updates have been written, those updates will be performed twice (once more at reboot) but that won't matter since these operations are idempotent. The remaining metadata updates are then performed once, at reboot. So where is the need for the journal to be on a seperate medium? The only thing that matters is that no metadata updates will be written before the journal has been written, and flushing the disk cache at a barrier will ensure this. Note that the disk doesn't even have to flush the cache when it receives that command, it only has to ensure that it'll perform all requests before the flush in front of those that come afterwards. >I have no idea what "designed to be used with the write-back cache >enabled" could affect the operating life of the disk. If you disable the write cache, you get a much higher wear&tear due to much more seeking. If I observe a 5x performance degradation when the cache is disabled, for sequential writes (i.e., no cache overwriting effects), I would think that I also have a factor >1 of increased seeking operations in the drive, otherwise the performance degradation cannot be explained. [Besides, the disk gets really loud when the cache is disabled.] mkb. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
port www/mozilla 1.2.1 disable anti-aliasing
Hi folks, sorry if this has been asked before but how does one disable anti-aliasing in the www/mozilla port (mozilla 1.2.1)? I have upgraded from 1.1 to 1.2.1 via ports today only to find that the visual display is rather seriously broken; any font everywhere is anti-aliased, even the menus, dialog boxes etc. Even worse, the fonts look as if one has written them with a typewriter with an ink ribbon that's already far beyond its lifetime. Why I'm asking here is because I've heard from a friend that Mozilla doesn't come that way per default and that it must be specifically built to provide full anti-aliasing everywhere (why one would want to do this eludes me, though.) So is there any way to make the mozilla port 1.2.1 behave like 1.1? I.e., only use anti-aliasing for large fonts in the rendered html text? I'm using the new version for a mere 15 minutes now and I can alread feel a headache coming in from having to look at that mess (even worse because I also use mozilla for mail.) -- Matthias Buelow To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: port www/mozilla 1.2.1 disable anti-aliasing
Joe Marcus Clarke wrote: # cd /usr/ports/www/mozilla # make -DWITHOUT_XFT install Isn't there any way to disable it at runtime? Oh, well.. rebuilding it right now. -- Matthias Buelow To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: port www/mozilla 1.2.1 disable anti-aliasing
Kuroishi Mitsuo wrote:
add in ~/.mozilla/default/*.slt/user.js
user_pref("fonts.xft.enabled", false);
thanks, I'll remember that. I've now rebuilt it without XFT support, as
Joe wrote, and it works a lot better now. Although it doesn't
anti-alias huge fonts anymore (I was under the impression that it did
with the old version but I may be wrong.)
--
Matthias Buelow
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Re: port www/mozilla 1.2.1 disable anti-aliasing
Joe Marcus Clarke wrote: No, without Xft support, there was no anti-aliasing. I do have some example fontconfig configurations that selectively disable AA on certain font sizes. However, it sounded like you wished to revert Mozilla back to the way 1.1 was. Yes, that's what I wanted. Maybe I have confused the aa'ing (or rather, the lack of it) of huge fonts in 1.1 with something else, I didn't pay much attention to such details before when it didn't scream in my face. I'd be interested in your fontconfig configurations if they can make the antialias mechanism to apply only to fonts over a certain size. -- Matthias Buelow To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: Fonts in Mozilla
Wayne Pascoe wrote: I've just installed Mozilla from ports (mozilla-1.2.1_1,2) and the fonts are AWEFUL! I've then installed most everything in /usr/ports/x11-fonts and added them to my Fontpath. I have inquired about a similar problem these days and the solution I got was to disable the use of XFT when building mozilla, i.e., build it with "make install WITHOUT_XFT=yes". This will disable the anti-aliasing stuff altogether, restoring the appearance of Mozilla 1.1. The advantage will be that you don't get a headache after 15 minutes of using mozilla (the default anti-aliased fonts, even in the widgets and all, you'll get with the port build look like you were very shortsighted and took your glasses off, or at least that's how I imagine it.) The disadvantage is that even huge fonts in the webpage don't get smoothed. Joe Marcus Clarke also posted a different solution using fontconfig, by disabling anti-aliasing for fonts under a certain size. I didn't try that yet and can't comment on its usefulness. Check the mailing list archive for the postings. -- Matthias Buelow To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
mdmfs /tmp and fstab on 5.0
Hi folks, I usually mount /tmp on the swap via the following fstab entry: /dev/da0s1b /tmp mfs rw,nosuid,nodev,nosymfollow 0 0 only this doesn't work anymore on freebsd 5.0 since mount_mfs doesn't exist (seems to have been replaced by mdmfs). What's the proper way to accomplish the same thing on 5.0? I'd prefer a solution with fstab, so that /tmp gets mounted as early as possible. -- Matthias Buelow To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: mdmfs /tmp and fstab on 5.0
Jan Grant writes: >ln -s mdmfs /sbin/mount_mfs Yes, that's a workaround I had in mind. >As I recall, mdmfs wasn't called "mount_mfs" at the time because the >author wasn't prepared to fight the battle he assumed (probably >correctly) would arise out of doing so. I can't see any problem there, if the mdmfs program is compatible with mount_mfs. I mean, the manpage even explicitly says, "the mdmfs utility is designed to be a work-alike and look-alike of the deprecated mount_mfs(8)." Why then the different name, especially with the result that it can no longer be used with fstab? I mean, the old mount_mfs doesn't seem to exist anymore so there would be no naming conflict. -- Matthias Buelow To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: mdmfs /tmp and fstab on 5.0
I wrote: >>ln -s mdmfs /sbin/mount_mfs > >Yes, that's a workaround I had in mind. >I can't see any problem there, if the mdmfs program is compatible >with mount_mfs. I mean, the manpage even explicitly says, "the mdmfs Ok, mdmfs is not fully compatible with mount_mfs, since you don't specify a swap device as parameter but, for example, /dev/md0. Other than that it seems to work ok, when called as mount_mfs via fstab (thru a symlink). I now have the following line in fstab: /dev/md0 /tmp mfs rw,nosuid,nodev,nosymfollow,-s256m 0 0 Is there any reason that softupdates is enabled on the md filesystem by default? Wouldn't async do the trick aswell? -- Matthias Buelow To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
recover /etc/passwd from pwd.db
Hi folks, after the latest crash of 5.0-p2/i386, my /etc/passwd and /etc/master.passwd are trashed (I used chsh just before the crash). My user line is missing in passwd, and the master.passwd file is just binary garbage. pwd.db and spwd.db however seem to be ok. How can I recover the text files from the databases? pwd_mkdb(8) talks about creating a v7 style passwd file via the -p option but I don't know what to pass as file argument, if I do pwd_mkdb -p /etc/pwd.db I get: pwd_mkdb: line #1 too long pwd_mkdb: /etc/pwd.db: Inappropriate file type or format Any solution? -- Matthias Buelow To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: recover /etc/passwd from pwd.db
I wrote: >after the latest crash of 5.0-p2/i386, my /etc/passwd and >/etc/master.passwd are trashed (I used chsh just before the crash). >My user line is missing in passwd, and the master.passwd file is >just binary garbage. pwd.db and spwd.db however seem to be ok. >How can I recover the text files from the databases? >pwd_mkdb(8) talks about creating a v7 style passwd file via the >-p option but I don't know what to pass as file argument, if I >do pwd_mkdb -p /etc/pwd.db I get: Following up my own mail, I found at least one solution in the meantime; there was a proper backup of master.passwd in /var/backups; and on that file pwd_mkdb worked. The question remains, however, what to do in the case when only the databases are left and all textual files are trashed. Surely there must be a way to create the text files from the db? -- Matthias Buelow To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: A question about kernel modules
Bill Moran writes: >First would be historical. BSD is historically a monolithic kernel. The >more >you rely on modules, the more the kernel acts like a microkernel. I suspect The kernel will still not be a microkernel.. it doesn't really matter at what time the stuff is linked; a microkernel generally uses message passing between mostly independent server processes, which is not what the BSD kernel does. -- Matthias Buelow To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: Looking for POSIX programming resources
J. Seth Henry wrote: If this discussion belongs elsewhere, please, point me in the right place! I'm also open to books, if anyone has any recommendations. Is there a "Programming POSIX for dummies" out there? W. Richard Stevens, "Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment" is the book you definitely want to buy. -- Matthias Buelow Read up against idiocy: http://www.counterpunch.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: error installing 5.3-stable - WRITE_DMA
craig wrote: out of desperation, i'm going to install a linux distro that i happen to have found laying about (as only linux disks can...) if it installs fine, then i would assume that the *hardware* is fine and that the problem must lie with fBSD. is that a fair assumption? have a look at dmesg when linux has booted. I've had a similar condition when the freebsd sysinstall would abort with the ICRC error, and linux booted, but when I looked into dmesg linux noted the exact same error, only didn't consider it fatal. it only occured once at boot anyways. nevertheless, I'd first check the UDMA cable (is it a proper 80-conductor one?) and the disk's power cable (loose contact?) -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: re bittorrent
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course anyone with an ISP that has a bandwidth management device, bittorrent (a cancerous protocol which wastes others bandwdith in the process of possibly saving yours) will likely either not work well or be very slow. No reputable organization would promote bittorrant for getting a release. Surely you can elaborate? Bittorrent was explicitly designed for the very purpose it has been used with the FreeBSD ISOs (and other organizations are using it aswell, for example RedHat for Fedora Core, and it works very well.) -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: About FREEBSD
Rafa wrote: I don't to speak English very well, so if you don't understand my question, ask me, please!!! I would like that you speak more about management of memory and management of processor, did you understand If you're interested in the technical details, read: McKusick, Neville-Neil, "The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System", Addison-Wesley, 2004. I haven't read yet it but I have the predecessor book (about 4.4BSD) and I guess it's written in the same style. -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: re bittorrent
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its become widely used for "sharing" in the same way as Kazaa and other "point to point" as they're called protocols. Many ISPs block it, or at least substantially slow it down. Well. Of course it can be abused for w4r3z aswell as used for legal purposes. If my ISP would block it or noticably slow it down, I would consider changing to a different ISP. And I think there's still a difference in quality compared to things like edonkey, which are used exclusively for "illegal" filesharing. -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: re bittorrent
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its not a legal/illegal issue. Its a "using more bandwidth than you are paying for" issue. Im sure if you were running bittorrent all day long your ISP would be very glad to see you go. I'm paying for a flatrate (ADSL) at home. I don't use the bandwidth most of the time, simply because I have no interest in leeching movies without end, but a lot of others do. In fact, the ISP has just upped the downstream from 768 to 1024 kbit/s at no extra cost. Many people I know have p2p-stuff running day and night. I mean, the company isn't giving you the bandwidth for altruistic reasons either, you pay them money for it. -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: re bittorrent
This is a technical forum? Yikes! Is it, Mr./Ms. "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"? -- Matthias Buelow; [EMAIL PROTECTED],informatik.uni-wuerzburg}.de ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
