Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On 20/10/18 at 03:55, Steve Litt wrote:
[...]
> Stop the madness!
👍
[...]
> http://smarden.org/runit/runscripts.htm
This link is http://smarden.org/runit/runscripts.html actually.
> ===
> #!/bin/sh
> if ping -4 -c1 8.8.8.8 > /dev/null; then
> (/etc/unbound/primecache.sh &)
> exec unbound -dp
> else
> sleep 1
> fi
> ===
I am one of those who scoffes when he sees a ping to some Internet
site to test the availability of network connectivity.
There are dozens of ways this ping could fail beyond being the
networking interface not setup correctly, among the possibilities: the
site being off-line, some router between your box and the specific site
malfunctioning, some firewall filtering ICMP echo-* packets, excessive
lag that makes the pings timeout. It's also a time-consuming way to
test for connectivity. Besides, I don't want to let Google know when I
switch my box on and how often do I reconfigure my networking.
Pinging the default gateway is better:
GW=$(ip route list | sed -rn 's/^default via ([0-9a-f:.]+) .*/\1/p')
ping -c 1 "$GW"
You could also use ip route list | awk '($1 == "default") {print $3}',
but I figured out awk is considerably slower than sed, 40% slower in
this case.
Still, this probe too could fail, because if the gateway is some box
outside your control (ie is some apparatus your ISP is in control of) it
too could be firewalled or temporarily off-line (some ISP take a handful
of seconds before you can actually use your default gateway to navigate
the Internet).
In my opinion when one tests for Internet connectivity one should only
test for some interface being ON and a default gateway being configured
and stop there. If these two conditions are met, any further issue goes
beyond interface configuration and must be investigated separately,
leaving all your local services go ahead starting and configuring
themselves like they should when your local interface goes up successfully.
Alessandro
--
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Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?
On 10/17/2018 03:18 PM, terryc wrote: Machines can ping each other now, so besides introducing Devuan, I also want to introduce Ubuntu via Devuan by some kind of remote GUI access or like. Suggestions? Please note that there is no Internet access to those boxes, so anything needed for each comp must be downloaded elsewhere and brought on USB or CD. Burn the basic DVD and do the installation from it and if you have it on hand, you can show how easily the computer can acquire other applications by; 0) open a terminal b) aptitude search some application (or hint utility). c)sudo aptitude install chosen-utility. d) utility. It's a seniors club, 70-75 at average. Some of them are more-less fluent in (pirated) Window$ -based mouse clicking to browse the Net, email, and office. So my point is to show them that there are free & unrestricted alternatives. As I said I have two machines there, one is wired to a big TV so they who sit in a last row can listen & watch. That one machine is Devuan Jessie 64-bit for now, I installed it just for test as I never used Devuan distro before. However, I am more experienced in Ubuntu, so I want to show them its desktop too. But the idea is not to disconnect/reconnect each machine from the TV to switch different distro, instead I want to run Devuan as a 'proxy' for Ubuntu to appear on TV as a second option. Both machines are pretty old. Devuan box is somewhat faster but also old so that's why it is wired to the TV as the primary sample for Linux introduction. At this stage I do not want the elders to play with keyboards just like that, but to relax sitting in the room and watch the presentations. Installing software in terminal or like is not an option for the audience, it would be too much for them to understand, they are not Linux geeks. As well it is playing VM, at least until they learn the basics. Btw, those comps are dual-boot with Window$ because they are also used for other things besides Linux promotion. There is no Internet in the club so I need exactly what software packages need to be downloaded elsewhere and brought to the site. For Ubuntu there is Remina or like (if I recall the proper name) but duno what needs for Devuan. Misko ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?
On 10/17/2018 05:14 PM, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: The easiest way would be to make a connection with ssh -X or -Y which enables X-forwarding. You then can start a individual X program from the commandline but also the complete WM. Perfectly showing how capable linux is in use. For more extended capabilities you could install x2go server and client which will also make possible to have more then one remote desktop. Nick, et al. ssh might be too complicated for my audience. They are not fond of CLI & terminals. I need something that can be chosen from the pull-down menu, and activated by mouse click to reach the other desktop's GUI (if possible) Misko ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?
On 10/17/2018 09:10 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: You may end up with network delays for systems that are designed with the speed of a local video display in mind. Well I am not in a hurry. I would make a try in any case before the public demo, so if it does not work in acceptable way, I would try some other option. Misko ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?
On 10/17/2018 10:16 PM, Bruce Ferrell wrote: For Linux stuff I've become somewhat fond of X2go Will check it. Tnx. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 13:07:19 +0200, Miroslav wrote in message <0a50e90e-0f7c-77c1-63f8-ce05b748f...@uns.ac.rs>: > On 10/17/2018 03:18 PM, terryc wrote: > > >> Machines can > >> ping each other now, so besides introducing Devuan, I also want to > >> introduce Ubuntu via Devuan by some kind of remote GUI access or > >> like. Suggestions? Please note that there is no Internet access to > >> those boxes, so anything needed for each comp must be downloaded > >> elsewhere and brought on USB or CD. > > Burn the basic DVD and do the installation from it and if you have > > it on hand, you can show how easily the computer can acquire other > > applications by; > > 0) open a terminal > > b) aptitude search some application (or hint utility). > > c)sudo aptitude install chosen-utility. > > d) utility. > > > > It's a seniors club, 70-75 at average. Some of them are more-less > fluent in (pirated) Window$ -based mouse clicking to browse the Net, > email, and office. So my point is to show them that there are free & > unrestricted alternatives. ..http://www.pclinuxos.com/ has a reputation for being the easiest distro for your kinda newbie users. But it is not Devuan. ;o) ..https://www.qubes-os.org/ is also not Devuan, but an excellent way to set up Devuan safely and securely in, er, these times. ..http://www.pclinuxos.com/ style gui is probably a good way to start set up Devuan for your clientele. And probably a lot more work on your ass to get done. And I'd argue it's worth doing. > As I said I have two machines there, one > is wired to a big TV so they who sit in a last row can listen & > watch. That one machine is Devuan Jessie 64-bit for now, I installed > it just for test as I never used Devuan distro before. However, I am > more experienced in Ubuntu, so I want to show them its desktop too. > But the idea is not to disconnect/reconnect each machine from the TV > to switch different distro, instead I want to run Devuan as a 'proxy' > for Ubuntu to appear on TV as a second option. Both machines are > pretty old. Devuan box is somewhat faster but also old so that's why > it is wired to the TV as the primary sample for Linux introduction. > At this stage I do not want the elders to play with keyboards just > like that, but to relax sitting in the room and watch the > presentations. Installing software in terminal or like is not an > option for the audience, it would be too much for them to understand, > they are not Linux geeks. As well it is playing VM, at least until > they learn the basics. Btw, those comps are dual-boot with Window$ > because they are also used for other things besides Linux promotion. > There is no Internet in the club so I need exactly what software > packages need to be downloaded elsewhere and brought to the site. For > Ubuntu there is Remina or like (if I recall the proper name) but duno > what needs for Devuan. > > Misko .._play_around_until_ you have a setup you're confident enough to tease your users into using. Your users has lived thru pretty bad times and _understand_ their need for _RL_ privacy, and will easily accept they need online privacy too, a fact you will find is handy when you are ready to scare them off their pirated Wintendos. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
Steve Litt wrote: > Stop the madness! +1, many times over ! > And, of course, pushbuttons and dials by their very nature are limiting Yes, yes. > Some Devuaners will say "but wait, bad as that is, it's still better > than modern init scripts." It is true that **SOME** init scripts have become rather bloated. But most are quite simple - and I really don't see the problem with them. When a major complaint is seeing the "complexity" of a case statement to decide what to do for each possible operation (meaning you can have as many arbitrary ones, not just stop, start, status), you have to wonder at the skills of those doing the complaining ! I really can't see why code that's there to be seen (and edited if needed) is somehow inferior to hiding the same code (and more) in some binary blob controlled by a load of buttons and dials - and all to achieve something less capable. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?
> > For Ubuntu there is Remina or like (if I recall the proper name) but duno > what needs for Devuan. > > Misko Remains is also available from ascii-backports. —Tom ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 00:05:55 +1100, wirelessd...@gmail.com wrote in message <6ec111c6-d733-4e15-a944-e2419b63c...@gmail.com>: > > > > For Ubuntu there is Remina or like (if I recall the proper name) > > but duno what needs for Devuan. > > > > Misko > > Remains is also available from ascii-backports. ..you mean remmina? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remmina https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=remmina https://manpages.debian.org/stretch-backports/remmina/remmina.1.en.html -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 01:07:19PM +0200, Miroslav Skoric wrote: > On 10/17/2018 03:18 PM, terryc wrote: > > > > Machines can > > > ping each other now, so besides introducing Devuan, I also want to > > > introduce Ubuntu via Devuan by some kind of remote GUI access or > > > like. Suggestions? Please note that there is no Internet access to > > > those boxes, so anything needed for each comp must be downloaded > > > elsewhere and brought on USB or CD. > > Burn the basic DVD and do the installation from it and if you have > > it on hand, you can show how easily the computer can acquire other > > applications by; > > 0) open a terminal > > b) aptitude search some application (or hint utility). > > c)sudo aptitude install chosen-utility. > > d) utility. > > It's a seniors club, 70-75 at average. Some of them are more-less fluent in > (pirated) Window$ -based mouse clicking to browse the Net, email, and > office. So my point is to show them that there are free & unrestricted > alternatives. As I said I have two machines there, one is wired to a big TV > so they who sit in a last row can listen & watch. That one machine is Devuan > Jessie 64-bit for now, I installed it just for test as I never used Devuan > distro before. However, I am more experienced in Ubuntu, so I want to show > them its desktop too. But the idea is not to disconnect/reconnect each > machine from the TV to switch different distro, instead I want to run Devuan > as a 'proxy' for Ubuntu to appear on TV as a second option. Why not just dual-boot between Devuan and Ubuntu? Dual boot doen't *require* one of the systems to be nonLinux! -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 01:14:25PM +0200, Miroslav Skoric wrote: > On 10/17/2018 09:10 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > > You may end up with network delays for systems that are designed with > > the speed of a local video display in mind. > > > > Well I am not in a hurry. I would make a try in any case before the public > demo, so if it does not work in acceptable way, I would try some other > option. Right! Because that which is not tested is broken. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 07:19:49 +0200 KatolaZ wrote: > Unfortunately, pointing to a bunch of scripts is not enough: It's a starting point. Power-user individuals can start using runit today, with no action by any developers. But wait, there's more... > you need > somebody who has experience of using runit who is willing to package > the whole stuff in a coherent way, IMHO. Do you mean by "the whole stuff", and what do you mean by "a coherent way"? Do you mean packaging each daemon's runit directory with the daemon? That can't happen in the near future: Big job. Do you mean having a package for all the runit daemons, and that package will create all runit directories so all someone has to do after installing the daemon is make the symlink? That can be done in the near future. I can make a shellscript that: 1) Disables daemon startup from /etc/rc.d/rc5.d and rc0.d 2) Enables daemon startup from runit. I can package that along with the bunch of daemon runit directories. SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?
> ..you mean remmina? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remmina > https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=remmina > https://manpages.debian.org/stretch-backports/remmina/remmina.1.en.html Sorry, yes. I blame autocorrect for that mistake. —Tom ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
Hi all, I want to make a VM from devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_qemu.qcow2.xz After 15 minutes googling and reading Devuan docs, I have nothing that works. How do I unarchive the file? Could you please put the method in the README file? SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
Steve Litt [20/10/2018 18.39]: > I want to make a VM from devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_qemu.qcow2.xz > > After 15 minutes googling and reading Devuan docs, I have nothing that > works. How do I unarchive the file? Could you please put the method in > the README file? $ aptitude search xz ... i xz-utils- XZ-format compression utilities ... $ -- Hilsen Harald ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 12:39:39PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > I want to make a VM from devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_qemu.qcow2.xz > > After 15 minutes googling and reading Devuan docs, I have nothing that > works. How do I unarchive the file? Could you please put the method in > the README file? Uhm, you do know that xz-utils/liblzma has been Essential since March 2010? But, if an experienced person like you lacks this part of knowledge, lemme provide some info for the sake of readers of this list: Among mainstream compression algorithms, only three have a reason to be used (other than for compat purposes): * xz: slow memory-hungry strong compression, for most compress-once transmit-multiple purposes (such as release tarballs, etc) * zstd: balanced speed-vs-ratio, for most local purposes * lz4: memory-bandwidth-speed, for stuff that doesn't even hit the disk There are three things to look at when comparing compression algorithms: strength, speed, and memory use. The latter rarely matters, so it's mostly about strength-to-speed envelope. Most algorithms take a "level" parameter: xz is faster-(but better)-than-gzip at its lowest setting; zstd beats the stuffing out of competition for a big range from lzop-like at the lowest setting to mid-xz at the highest, etc. Anything else has been obsoleted and should be deprecated: * gzip is venerable and had seen so much use in the past that it won't ever go away. But you shouldn't use it: it's speed is same as xz at level 2.5 but compression ratio is drastically worse. * bzip2 is drastically slower (esp. at decompression) than xz and zstd; it needs to die. * lzop had a good run but zstd is much stronger at same speed while lz4 is much faster. * lzip is a worse alternative to xz, peddled by a couple of trolls that send untruthful propaganda to projects, hoping people won't do research between accepting its use. Just say no and use xz. * ncompress is completely dead by now. * zip is used by Windows folks only, similar to gzip. * rar is unfree. * 7z is similar but incompatible to xz; also a container rather than a pure compressor. The above info has been greatly simplified, but should give an idea. Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢰⠒⠀⣿⡁ 10 people enter a bar: 1 who understands binary, ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ 1 who doesn't, D who prefer to write it as hex, ⠈⠳⣄ and 1 who narrowly avoided an off-by-one error. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
Adam Borowski [20/10/2018 22.54]: > Anything else has been obsoleted and should be deprecated: > * gzip is venerable and had seen so much use in the past that it won't ever > go away. But you shouldn't use it: it's speed is same as xz at level 2.5 > but compression ratio is drastically worse. > * bzip2 is drastically slower (esp. at decompression) than xz and zstd; it > needs to die. > * lzop had a good run but zstd is much stronger at same speed while lz4 is > much faster. > * lzip is a worse alternative to xz, peddled by a couple of trolls that send > untruthful propaganda to projects, hoping people won't do research between > accepting its use. Just say no and use xz. > * ncompress is completely dead by now. > * zip is used by Windows folks only, similar to gzip. > * rar is unfree. > * 7z is similar but incompatible to xz; also a container rather than a pure > compressor. You forgot 'pack' :-) -- Hilsen Harald ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 23:08:23 +0200 Harald Arnesen wrote: > Adam Borowski [20/10/2018 22.54]: > > > Anything else has been obsoleted and should be deprecated: > > * gzip is venerable and had seen so much use in the past that it > > won't ever go away. But you shouldn't use it: it's speed is same > > as xz at level 2.5 but compression ratio is drastically worse. > > * bzip2 is drastically slower (esp. at decompression) than xz and > > zstd; it needs to die. > > * lzop had a good run but zstd is much stronger at same speed while > > lz4 is much faster. > > * lzip is a worse alternative to xz, peddled by a couple of trolls > > that send untruthful propaganda to projects, hoping people won't do > > research between accepting its use. Just say no and use xz. > > * ncompress is completely dead by now. > > * zip is used by Windows folks only, similar to gzip. > > * rar is unfree. > > * 7z is similar but incompatible to xz; also a container rather > > than a pure compressor. > > You forgot 'pack' :-) You forgot pigz lbzip2 pixz pxz, those are multicore, multithtread programs. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 23:24:46 +0200, arne wrote in message <20181020232446.231bf6f5@ryzen>: > On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 23:08:23 +0200 > Harald Arnesen wrote: > > > Adam Borowski [20/10/2018 22.54]: > > > > > Anything else has been obsoleted and should be deprecated: > > > * gzip is venerable and had seen so much use in the past that it > > > won't ever go away. But you shouldn't use it: it's speed is same > > > as xz at level 2.5 but compression ratio is drastically worse. > > > * bzip2 is drastically slower (esp. at decompression) than xz and > > > zstd; it needs to die. > > > * lzop had a good run but zstd is much stronger at same speed > > > while lz4 is much faster. > > > * lzip is a worse alternative to xz, peddled by a couple of trolls > > > that send untruthful propaganda to projects, hoping people won't > > > do research between accepting its use. Just say no and use xz. > > > * ncompress is completely dead by now. > > > * zip is used by Windows folks only, similar to gzip. > > > * rar is unfree. > > > * 7z is similar but incompatible to xz; also a container rather > > > than a pure compressor. > > > > You forgot 'pack' :-) > > You forgot pigz lbzip2 pixz pxz, those are multicore, multithtread > programs. ...and rzip and lrzip... ;oD -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > You forgot 'pack' :-) > > > > You forgot pigz lbzip2 pixz pxz, those are multicore, multithtread > > programs. > > ...and rzip and lrzip... ;oD Honestly, Adam's run-through was so close to being exhaustive and definitive as to be IMO sort of breathtaking. And thus appreciated by this correspondent. He didn't cover the antique Compress utility that gave us the .Z prefix, either, but c'mon. Computing history is littered with obsolete compression and archiving formats. I remember during the years when I was a BBS sysop / owner / operator in the 1980s and early 1990s, the DOS-oriented computing world went through a menagerie of such things: arc, pkzip, arj, and many others I'm trying hard to forget. Adam's argument for xz is IMO very compelling except for us poor bastards who choose to make online content including non-software content easily accessible to users of unfortunate operating systems (which would fall under Adam's 'compatibility' wording). ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 15:16:33 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20181020221633.ga17...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > > > You forgot 'pack' :-) > > > > > > You forgot pigz lbzip2 pixz pxz, those are multicore, multithtread > > > programs. > > > > ...and rzip and lrzip... ;oD ..I'll only accept blame for that last line, I use rzip on my [fetch,proc]mail log files, about once a year. ;oD > Honestly, Adam's run-through was so close to being exhaustive and > definitive as to be IMO sort of breathtaking. And thus appreciated > by this correspondent. ...and by this too. Like I liked the humor in those 2 lines I got blamed for. ;o) Which we could have been a little clearer about. > He didn't cover the antique Compress utility that gave us the .Z > prefix, either, but c'mon. Computing history is littered with > obsolete compression and archiving formats. I remember during the > years when I was a BBS sysop / owner / operator in the 1980s and > early 1990s, the DOS-oriented computing world went through a > menagerie of such things: arc, pkzip, arj, and many others I'm trying > hard to forget. > > Adam's argument for xz is IMO very compelling except for us poor > bastards who choose to make online content including non-software > content easily accessible to users of unfortunate operating systems > (which would fall under Adam's 'compatibility' wording). ..I believe I have seen (about 20 years ago) a wintendo open a tarball with WinZip, using 2 double clicks, first on the gz compression, then on the gunzipped tarball. They can still do that? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > ...and by this too. Like I liked the humor in those 2 lines I got > blamed for. ;o) Which we could have been a little clearer about. I did notice and appreciate the gentle raillery, Arnt. ;-> > ..I believe I have seen (about 20 years ago) a wintendo open a tarball > with WinZip, using 2 double clicks, first on the gz compression, then > on the gunzipped tarball. They can still do that? I'm pretty sure yes. Which is part of why I still house on my Web site content intended to be platform-neutral in .tar.gz / .gz format, despite the evident advantages of xz (and before that, of bzip2). ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
On Saturday, October 20, 2018 5:16 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Honestly, Adam's run-through was so close to being exhaustive and > definitive as to be IMO sort of breathtaking. And thus appreciated by this > correspondent. +1, I also found that information very useful. In particular, that bzip2 should be deprecated and that xz is both better and faster than gzip at some setting were very useful to me. > He didn't cover the antique Compress utility that gave us the .Z prefix, > either, but c'mon. Computing history is littered with obsolete > compression and archiving formats. I remember during the years when I > was a BBS sysop / owner / operator in the 1980s and early 1990s, the > DOS-oriented computing world went through a menagerie of such things: > arc, pkzip, arj, and many others I'm trying hard to forget. Ahhh yes, many others like .sit (Stuff-It, popular with Mac users) and .lha/.lzh (LHarc, popular with Amiga users), oh wait, you said you were trying to forget. Patrick ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On 10/19/18 6:55 PM, Steve Litt wrote: Lennart pats himself on the back for his parallel instantiation. Notice how I allowed primecache.sh to run, in the background, while other boot activities were done. But wait, there's more. Runit goes around in a circle, creating 1 daemon supervisors, without stopping to wait if those 1 daemon supervisors succeed. In parallel, those 1 daemon supervisors each start their daemon, whether it takes 0.1 seconds or 30 seconds. IN OTHER WORDS... If you're happy with sysvinit, that's fine. But if sysvinit no longer suits your use case, or you're afraid it will no longer work with systemd apps and daemons, then don't try to massively bring up to date the 30 year old jalopy from the days of Devo and Pat Banatar and distributors and carburetors, instead switch to something that already accommodates your needs: Runit (or s6). And don't forget, until Devuan Devs get around to making the runit package a genuine PID1, you can, right now, today, run runit on top of sysvinit, and one by one switch services from /etc/rc.d/init.d scripts to runit run scripts, by shutting off the service on the sysvinit end, and downloading or making a runit run script and then making one symlink. A lot of run scripts are available at http://smarden.org/runit/runscripts.htm . I will be curating a collection of more runit run scripts in the near future. In other words, unless you view sysvinit as an antique to be kept around for sentimental value, don't put any work into it. Drive it while it fits your needs, then call the tow truck to tow it away and get your brand new runit supervisor. SteveT Pottering only selling point was the systemd is faster, my testings on many systems says that's a lie. I'm not saying it can't be faster, while using systemd if I push and hold the on/off switch my computer shuts down fast. If I understand you, you're trying to dump sysvinit because it's old, well it's not nearly as old as me and I can still kick butt and I see nothing wrong using sysv script, as a user it's working for me, simple config I can read and edit. What's wrong with that? -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On 10/19/18 10:19 PM, KatolaZ wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 09:55:31PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: Some folks are asking for automatic sysvinit init script generation, or else unit file to sysvinit init script converters. Some are asking Devuan's developers to prioritize their scarce programmer resources to modifying sysvinit, which is over 30 years old. Yet others think we should reimplement all the systemd functions in the Unix paradigm. Stop the madness! Dear Steve, I understand your frustration, and I share most of it, but I can't see anything wrong with discussing the possibility of generating initscripts from existing unit files (which is something that, at least in part, already exists [0]). I personally like the ideas behind process managers like runit (I have also had a look at shepherd, for instance), but if you want it to happen in Devuan somebody should work on it and make it real. And now is a good time to do that, since Beowulf is in the making. Unfortunately, pointing to a bunch of scripts is not enough: you need somebody who has experience of using runit who is willing to package the whole stuff in a coherent way, IMHO. You already know you have MS Trolls in this group, best way to handle them is to talk around them, they will not listen to common sense or help you make Devuan what you want it to be. They are just here to tell you that you are stupid until you do things their way and that's to use systemd or something else that will destroy Devuan. Their not stupid, avoid them and get on with your business and Save Linux! My2Cents KatolaZ My2Cents -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
Quoting blinkdog (blink...@protonmail.com): > +1, I also found that information very useful. In particular, that > bzip2 should be deprecated and that xz is both better and faster than > gzip at some setting were very useful to me. FWIW, now recorded in the Linuxmafia.com Knowledgebase as 'Compression' on http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Apps/ . > Ahhh yes, many others like .sit (Stuff-It, popular with Mac users) and > .lha/.lzh (LHarc, popular with Amiga users), oh wait, you said you > were trying to forget. Believe it or not, the same Knowledgebase page has an (aging) entry about StuffIt access on Linux. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On 10/20/18 8:17 AM, Steve Litt wrote: On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 07:19:49 +0200 KatolaZ wrote: Unfortunately, pointing to a bunch of scripts is not enough: It's a starting point. Power-user individuals can start using runit today, with no action by any developers. But wait, there's more... you need somebody who has experience of using runit who is willing to package the whole stuff in a coherent way, IMHO. Do you mean by "the whole stuff", and what do you mean by "a coherent way"? Do you mean packaging each daemon's runit directory with the daemon? That can't happen in the near future: Big job. Do you mean having a package for all the runit daemons, and that package will create all runit directories so all someone has to do after installing the daemon is make the symlink? That can be done in the near future. I can make a shellscript that: 1) Disables daemon startup from /etc/rc.d/rc5.d and rc0.d 2) Enables daemon startup from runit. I can package that along with the bunch of daemon runit directories. SteveT So what was it now, well for me it was 7 going on 8 years we where discussing systemd, for me then it was logind and why it was put there, I was told by Debian that login had a bug and where replacing it. That wasn't a lie, what they didn't say was our future was to adopt systemd. Again I ask why, and I'm told it's faster, that was lie and everything since is built around a lie. When a Debian fork was discussed I suggested fixing Wheezy, nobody listened then and there and people in 'this group' that would just like me to shut up, but at the same time listen to every word I say. If you want to save Debian Linux you have to put it back to what it was before the discussion of changing init started. And you have to take a systemd free version and then bring it up to date, back then it would have been easier, but it's not to late. And that is how you are going to save Linux. -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
Who remembers when rootkit hunter started showing problems and Debian said they where false positive problems? I think it was sometime during the development of Stretch. Well they fixed rootkit hunter to not show those problems any longer and so goes systemd, one BIG FAT security problem and has made security software pretty much useless. At lest with a firewall and no systemd you can stop kernel calls to get outside http or at lest I can. I think it's to bad we have to live with a kernel that's passing our activity to outside sources. I have this stuff logged, it can't be denied. -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
Quoting Jimmy Johnson (field.engin...@gmail.com): > Who remembers when rootkit hunter started showing problems and > Debian said they where false positive problems? I think it was > sometime during the development of Stretch. Well they fixed rootkit > hunter to not show those problems any longer and so goes systemd, > one BIG FAT security problem and has made security software pretty > much useless. At lest with a firewall and no systemd you can stop > kernel calls to get outside http or at lest I can. I think it's to > bad we have to live with a kernel that's passing our activity to > outside sources. I have this stuff logged, it can't be denied. I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but: What specifically are you talking about? The first 60% of that paragraph seems to be some sort of odd and rather elliptical complaint about systemd. The latter 40% appears to be a comment (one with no obvious segue from the first 60%) about some sort of bad behaviour by your kernel. Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining. And perhaps switching to a more meaningful Subject header, while you're at it. (rkhunter throughout its history has had problems with Type I errors aka false positives, and probably that will remain an ongoing problem.) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
Am 2018-10-21 03:41, schrieb Jimmy Johnson: Pottering only selling point was the systemd is faster, my testings on many systems says that's a lie. I'm not saying it can't be faster, while using systemd if I push and hold the on/off switch my computer shuts down fast. If I understand you, you're trying to dump sysvinit because it's old, well it's not nearly as old as me and I can still kick butt and I see nothing wrong using sysv script, as a user it's working for me, simple config I can read and edit. What's wrong with that? +1 My old Lenovo Thinkpad T61 (with SSD) boots in 8 seconds from grub prompt to slim login window. I also cannot see what's wrong with that. Jochen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Daemon names for runit
Hi all, Please view http://troubleshooters.com/linux/init/runit_daemon_list.htm and if you use any daemons not on that list, please email me with the daemon name(s) so I can get run scripts for them. Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 07:50:48 +0200 "J. Fahrner" wrote: > Am 2018-10-21 03:41, schrieb Jimmy Johnson: > > Pottering only selling point was the systemd is faster, my testings > > on many systems says that's a lie. I'm not saying it can't be > > faster, while using systemd if I push and hold the on/off switch my > > computer shuts down fast. > > > > If I understand you, you're trying to dump sysvinit because it's > > old, well it's not nearly as old as me and I can still kick butt > > and I see nothing wrong using sysv script, as a user it's working > > for me, simple config I can read and edit. What's wrong with > > that? > > +1 I already dumped sysvinit 3 years ago because runit is better for my needs. What I said was that if you like sysvinit, use it, but for gosh sakes don't take the time and energy to modify it or update it or give it systemd features. By the way, you can use runit on top of sysvinit, which is dead bang easy. As a matter of fact, it might be an improvement on pure runit because you can run run-once processes from /etc/init.d/rc5.d, and run supervised, restarting processes with runit. SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On 10/20/18 8:42 PM, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Jimmy Johnson (field.engin...@gmail.com): Who remembers when rootkit hunter started showing problems and Debian said they where false positive problems? I think it was sometime during the development of Stretch. Well they fixed rootkit hunter to not show those problems any longer and so goes systemd, one BIG FAT security problem and has made security software pretty much useless. At lest with a firewall and no systemd you can stop kernel calls to get outside http or at lest I can. I think it's to bad we have to live with a kernel that's passing our activity to outside sources. I have this stuff logged, it can't be denied. I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but: What specifically are you talking about? The first 60% of that paragraph seems to be some sort of odd and rather elliptical complaint about systemd. The latter 40% appears to be a comment (one with no obvious segue from the first 60%) about some sort of bad behaviour by your kernel. Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining. And perhaps switching to a more meaningful Subject header, while you're at it. (rkhunter throughout its history has had problems with Type I errors aka false positives, and probably that will remain an ongoing problem.) Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you didn't read or recall the incident I remember. And you have nothing helpful to add? Errors while testing upstream can tell tales, a lot of adjustments where made to Debian in order to accommodate systemd, I have a hard time seeing where the user received any accommodations. -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting daemon
Hi all, In Devuan, what's the command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting a daemon. Yeah, I know I could research this, but I don't need to become a sysvinit expert when so many such experts reside here. Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting daemon
Am 2018-10-21 08:10, schrieb Steve Litt: In Devuan, what's the command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting a daemon. man update-rc.d You can remove or disable a service. Jochen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On 10/20/18 11:07 PM, Steve Litt wrote: On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 07:50:48 +0200 "J. Fahrner" wrote: Am 2018-10-21 03:41, schrieb Jimmy Johnson: Pottering only selling point was the systemd is faster, my testings on many systems says that's a lie. I'm not saying it can't be faster, while using systemd if I push and hold the on/off switch my computer shuts down fast. If I understand you, you're trying to dump sysvinit because it's old, well it's not nearly as old as me and I can still kick butt and I see nothing wrong using sysv script, as a user it's working for me, simple config I can read and edit. What's wrong with that? +1 I already dumped sysvinit 3 years ago because runit is better for my needs. What I said was that if you like sysvinit, use it, but for gosh sakes don't take the time and energy to modify it or update it or give it systemd features. By the way, you can use runit on top of sysvinit, which is dead bang easy. As a matter of fact, it might be an improvement on pure runit because you can run run-once processes from /etc/init.d/rc5.d, and run supervised, restarting processes with runit. SteveT Steve, I would like to run Devuan with out systemd packages messing with me or my system. Right now I don't think those packages care what init you're using, of course they prefer systemd because systemd can and will change things to accommodate what it wants to do, but those kernel calls do the same thing using those same systemd packages. Me I can stop those service I don't need or want, my requirements are simple, but people running servers, ouch! One other thing I notice is those kernel calls mess with Intel video drivers big time, ATI and Nvidia don't seem to suffer as much. Bottom line is to get Devuan back to what Debian was and dump the systemd packages, all of them and I'm pretty sure there is someone working on Devuan doing that vary thing and I wish I could help, all I know to do is install and test, I've worked close with some past Debian Developers and they used my testing service and took my help while using private email. -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting daemon
On 10/20/18 11:18 PM, J. Fahrner wrote: Am 2018-10-21 08:10, schrieb Steve Litt: In Devuan, what's the command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting a daemon. man update-rc.d You can remove or disable a service. Jochen Can a person simple remove the 'exe' properties from the rc-* script or just rename it? -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
