Re: Mailing list conduct and long threads [WAS new computer arriving soon etc.]

[hlyg]

is it possible for moderator to remove posts that go astray too far when 
archiving?

Re: Finding appropriate support for packages in Debian repository

[Richard Owlett]

On 1/11/25 9:00 AM, Paul M. Foster wrote:

On 1/11/25 07:58, Richard Owlett wrote:


*SNIP*
However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time 
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI 
took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate.*SNIP*


I would suggest moc (Music On Console). It's a terminal app, but it's 
very easy to operate. Simple single character commands, but no real 
menus. It's not a GUI per se, but uses ncurses. If you can deal with the 
terminal visually, moc should work for you.


The first paragraph of its man-page emphasizes that it's *full screen*.
Project pages focus of playing multiple songs in one session. I'm 
focused on moving around in a single lecture.

Re: Finding appropriate support for packages in Debian repository

[Richard Owlett]

On 1/11/25 10:24 AM, e...@gmx.us wrote:

On 1/11/25 09:01, Fred wrote:

On 1/11/25 05:58, Richard Owlett wrote:


I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI took up
a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to several
overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight forward.


Hi,
mpg123 is a command line program that plays mp3s.


So is mplayer.  As far as graphical programs, I think gmplayer has a fairly
small footprint, but I might have used it once.


It's not in Debian repository.
I had visited its homepage in my initial search. It is a "movie player" 
and is one of the applications I labeled as overpowered and complex.



 clementine is not small,
but basic functions are available from its taskbar icon.



Too focused on playing multiple songs.

Re: Finding appropriate support for packages in Debian repository

[Olafur Jens Sigurdsson]

On Sat, Jan 11, 2025 at 06:58:04AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> As I'm over 80 and a computer *user* since introduction via Hollerith cards
> and line-printers in 60's (q.v. CORC & CUPL - BASIC didn't exist) and later
> using an Acoustic coupler with an RBBS, I'm not a newbie per se.
> 
> However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time (currently
> a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI took up a very
> minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to several overpowered
> complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight forward.
> 
> Due to vision and perception issues, I avoid sites over using graphics or
> requiring JavaScript. For support I look for USENET groups &/or mailing
> lists (not having found _any_ usable WEB based fora).
> 
> I didn't find anything at www.videolan.org (and linked pages).
> Searching for alternative support channels, I went to
>https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc-bin/vlc.1.en.html
> and
>https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc
> without any luck.
> 
> QUESTIONS
> 1. Suggested alternative application with newbie friendly docs?
>[VLC has attractive features but ...]
> 2. Is there a mailing list or USENET group where application specific
>newbie questions would be appropriate?

Application specific questions are relevant here on debian-user as long as the 
application is installed from the official debian repository.
Applications installed via source, flatpack, snap or what have you are not 
supported on this mailing list.

Oli

Re: Finding appropriate support for packages in Debian repository

[Richard Owlett]

On 1/11/25 8:01 AM, Fred wrote:

On 1/11/25 05:58, Richard Owlett wrote:


*SNIP*
However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time 
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI 
took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to 
several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight 
forward.*SNIP*



Hi,
mpg123 is a command line program that plays mp3s.


But, as indicated above, I'm explicitly looking for a GUI .
VLC includes desired features and has small visual footprint.
I have problems with its documentation and their support channel.

Re: Removing an unwanted RAID 1 array

[Roger Price]

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Michael Stone wrote:

> > root@titan ~ mdadm --misc /dev/md4 --stop
> 
> This is incorrect syntax, and a no-op (so the array did not stop). You want
> `mdadm --misc --stop /dev/md4`. The --misc is implied so you can just use
> `mdadm --stop /dev/md4`

I ran the command

 root@titan ~ mdadm --misc --stop /dev/md124
 mdadm: stopped /dev/md124

md124 has now disappeared from cat /proc/mdstat.  I also updated /etc/fstab, 
ran 
systemctl daemon-reload, updated /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf and ran update-initramfs 
-u .

Thanks, Roger 

Re: Finding appropriate support for packages in Debian repository

[Joe]

On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 04:05:01 -0600
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 1/11/25 8:01 AM, Fred wrote:
> > On 1/11/25 05:58, Richard Owlett wrote:  
> 
> *SNIP*
> >> However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time 
> >> (currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI 
> >> took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was
> >> referred to several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC
> >> as most straight forward.*SNIP*  
> 
> > Hi,
> > mpg123 is a command line program that plays mp3s.  
> 
> But, as indicated above, I'm explicitly looking for a GUI .
> VLC includes desired features and has small visual footprint.
> I have problems with its documentation and their support channel.
> 

It has been assumed that you can use a terminal and that such usage
would minimise the screen real estate considerably. What is it that you
need to look at all the time, which would preclude opening the GUI
window on another desktop, or simply minimising the window?

Is the documentation and support information here insufficient for your
needs? You haven't explained why your particular requirement is so
unusual.

https://www.videolan.org/support/

There are various user forums where you can ask your specific question,
and a means of reporting bugs.

Bear in mind that this is open source software provided free of
charge and you are not likely to find a telephone helpline or
visiting consultant available.

-- 
Joe

Re: Finding appropriate support for packages in Debian repository

[Richard Owlett]

On 1/11/25 8:06 AM, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:

Richard Owlett  wrote:


*SNIP*


Due to vision and perception issues, I avoid sites over using
graphics or requiring JavaScript. For support I look for USENET
groups &/or mailing lists (not having found _any_ usable WEB based
fora).

I didn't find anything at www.videolan.org (and linked pages).

*SNIP*


I'm surprised you didn't find anything at the videolan site, since


The use of the word "anything" was a poor choice.
I was frustrated by how the documentation was "organized"(sic).


that seems to work tolerably well without javascript.


It does. I was indicating that a I surf with JavaScript disabled.
When enabled on a case-by-case basis it can be useful.


And the
application itself has a Help menu that can bring up various useful
documents.


Those links are aimed at casual/first-time user.
A more content oriented link is
  https://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Documentation/


There is a mailing list as listed at
https://www.videolan.org/support/lists.html Have you tried all those
sources?


Go to the history page and note that the general list was last used in 
2015. Current support is via WEB fora at https://forum.videolan.org/ .





You don't say what particular problems you are encountering so it's
difficult to be of more help.



TRUE ;}
As I said in my original post, that though I've been a computer user for 
more than a half-century, I've had no contact with media players.


I, and likely Mr. Cater for the Debian Community Team, would consider 
newbie oriented _application_ questions to be OT on a *OS* support list.


I asked for referral to a suitable USENET group or mailing list because 
they usually have searchable history files. Useful for a newbie's education.

Re: ApacheBench broken for (most) SSL sites on Bookworm?

[cen]

On 11/01/2025 19:37, Michael Stone wrote:
This is because some servers drop a connection when they're done 
rather than closing it gracefully. (This is actually becoming more 
common than not due to changes in the way HTTPS is used between 
browsers and servers on the modern internet.) You can try filing a bug 
against apache2-utils asking that ab add IgnoreUnexpectedEOF to the 
SSL options. I don't know
what kind of reception that will get if you can't demonstrate it being 
a problem on your own site. It's also possible to modify openssl.cnf 
to make this option the default for all connections. To do that, 
create the following in $HOME/openssldemo.cnf:


openssl_conf = openssl_init

[openssl_init]
ssl_conf = ssl_sect

[ssl_sect]
system_default = ssl_default_sect

[ssl_default_sect]
Options = IgnoreUnexpectedEOF


Then run
env OPENSSL_CONF=$HOME/openssldemo.cnf ab -r -n1 -c1 
https://www.google.com/


and it should work fine. It's possible to modify /etc/ssl/openssl.cnf 
to make that the system default by adding the ssl_conf directive to 
the existing [openssl_init] in that file, then adding everything from 
[ssl_sect] down to the bottom. There are various pros and cons to 
doing this, which is why it isn't the default already.


Great answer. Unfortunately this does not seem to work in Bookworm but I 
can make it work in Trixie. Seems to require OpenSSL 3.2 from a few 
issues I found.


Either way, I can live with this, thank you.

Deleting/removing content from Debian mailing lists [WAS Re: Mailing list conduct and long threads]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 02:02:45PM +0800, hlyg wrote:
> is it possible for moderator to remove posts that go astray too far when
> archiving?
>

Hi hlyg,

The Debian lists don't work quite that way. It's quite hard to establish
that there's nothing useful even in the longest threads. Also, Debian
archives are there for future readers - chunks of missing mail won't 
help. 

We don't hide problems as they arise. We also don't delete mails unless
they are obvious spam and that comes after the event and after some
review. If you do find that a post on the lists is spam, please
report it on the web version of the lists where there's a Report as spam
button.

Although I try to keep this list on track, this is not a formally
moderated list. Debian only has one moderated list at the moment, as
far as I'm aware - debian-project gets a lot of spam / off topic posts
from the outside world. Formal moderation of that list means that each post
has to be pre-approved to reach the wider list, which imposes a delay and a
burden on the moderators.

If posts need to be removed from this or any other list, then they need to
be notified to the listmasters to approve the removal from the Debian
archives. Obviously, that doesn't mean that a post disappears completely
because there are lots of archives around the 'Net which aren't under Debian
control and web archives have probably cached it. _Very occasionally,
extremist political propaganda or posts linking to illegal or questionable
content have also been posted to Debian open lists and these have also been
removed by listmasters.
 
I think this is covered by the FAQ but there's no harm in repeating it
occasionally. It does mean that if you post something you regret onto
the Internet / a Debian list, then there's little possibility of 
removing it completely.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andrew Cater
(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: Finding appropriate support for packages in Debian repository

[mick.crane]

On 2025-01-11 14:18, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Jan 11, 2025 at 07:01:23 -0700, Fred wrote:

On 1/11/25 05:58, Richard Owlett wrote:
> However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
> (currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI took
> up a very minimal amount of screen real estate.



mpg123 is a command line program that plays mp3s.


You can also play them with mpv, or mplayer, if you're looking for
something that does more than just MP3.  Both of these can be run from
the command line.

Some MP3 files may have an album cover image (or similar) embedded 
inside
them, and mpv may show this when playing the song.  If that's not 
wanted,

there's an option to disable that:

hobbit:/stuff/music/Tool/Fear$ mpv 01\ -\ Fear\ Inoculum.mp3
 (+) Video --vid=1 [P] (mjpeg 600x600 1.000fps)
 Video --vid=2 [P] 'Cover.jpg' (mjpeg 600x600 1.000fps) (external)
 (+) Audio --aid=1 (mp3 2ch 44100Hz)
[...]
Displaying cover art. Use --no-audio-display to prevent this.
[...]

I've had great results with mpv.  It plays everything I've given it.
Granted, my needs are not terribly exotic.


I wondered if you could do it and a search reveals.
If the audio file has no cover art then a window can be forced with:
"mpv --force-window some-audio.mp3"
The command above will automatically display subtitles if the subtitle 
file is named some-audio.srt or some-audio.vtt etc.

To load subtitles from a custom file you can use:
"mpv --force-window --sub-files=123.srt some-audio.mp3"

mick

Re: playstation 4 kernel module

[tv.debian]

On 12/01/2025 03:54, nsrxnst wrote:

does the stock kernel come with this driver? if not, how can I get it?


Hello,
If you are asking about the controller, Debian kernels are built with 
"CONFIG_HID_SONY=m", so the "hid-playstation.ko" should be available for 
your system and loaded automatically when you plug a controller.


If you want to run Debian kernel on a playstation, I have no idea.

Re: Finding appropriate support for packages in Debian repository

[debian-user]

Richard Owlett  wrote:
> On 1/11/25 8:06 AM, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> > Richard Owlett  wrote:  
> 
> *SNIP*
> >>
> >> Due to vision and perception issues, I avoid sites over using
> >> graphics or requiring JavaScript. For support I look for USENET
> >> groups &/or mailing lists (not having found _any_ usable WEB based
> >> fora).
> >>
> >> I didn't find anything at www.videolan.org (and linked pages).  
> *SNIP*
> 
> > I'm surprised you didn't find anything at the videolan site, since  
> 
> The use of the word "anything" was a poor choice.
> I was frustrated by how the documentation was "organized"(sic).

I'm not quite sure why the word organized is in quotes, so I have no
idea why you were frustrated.

> > that seems to work tolerably well without javascript.  
> 
> It does. I was indicating that a I surf with JavaScript disabled.
> When enabled on a case-by-case basis it can be useful.
> 
> > And the
> > application itself has a Help menu that can bring up various useful
> > documents.  
> 
> Those links are aimed at casual/first-time user.
> A more content oriented link is
>https://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Documentation/
> 
> >There is a mailing list as listed at
> > https://www.videolan.org/support/lists.html Have you tried all those
> > sources?  
> 
> Go to the history page and note that the general list was last used
> in 2015. Current support is via WEB fora at
> https://forum.videolan.org/ .

Ah I didn't go any further than wondering why you had complained about
its absence. I'm not as motivated as you.

> > You don't say what particular problems you are encountering so it's
> > difficult to be of more help.
> >   
> 
> TRUE ;}
> As I said in my original post, that though I've been a computer user
> for more than a half-century, I've had no contact with media players.
> 
> I, and likely Mr. Cater for the Debian Community Team, would consider 
> newbie oriented _application_ questions to be OT on a *OS* support
> list.

I think as long as you're using a debian-packaged application on a
debian system you're unlikely to get into too much trouble. Why not try
asking about whatever your specific problem of the moment is?

> I asked for referral to a suitable USENET group or mailing list
> because they usually have searchable history files. Useful for a
> newbie's education.

If you consider yourself a newbie, then I'm puzzled as to why you find
the links in the help to be unhelpful, if they are as you say aimed at
a first-time user?

But in any case the forum seems to have a complete archive, which
functions in much the same way as an email archive and can be used in a
similar way. So seems to satisfy your requirement.

Re: Finding appropriate support for packages in Debian repository

[David Wright]

On Sat 11 Jan 2025 at 06:58:04 (-0600), Richard Owlett wrote:
[ … ]
> However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
> (currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI
> took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to
> several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight
> forward.

I would have thought that if screen real estate is a real criterion,
it would be difficult to beat audacious. In its winamp skin, it runs
here in a window about 275x112 pixels when displaying all its controls
(play/skip etc motion controls, time, file name/parameters, equaliser,
volume/balance, etc), and as few as about 275x12 when reduced to just
the motion controls. You can also iconify it, which gives it a
marginal size of zero if there's a space in your icon grid.

Your criticism that the timing was too coarse was answered (±1sec
is better than your "point x minutes into a file").

So what's the real problem?

> 2. Is there a mailing list or USENET group where application specific
>newbie questions would be appropriate?

If a Debian application doesn't work, then questions are on topic
here. If it works, then the man page, or my previous post¹, should
be enough for playing your dozen lectures. If you've lived a life
sheltered enough for ⏴ ⏵ ⏸ ⏹ to mystify you, then you can run
audacious with keystrokes. It seems perfect for satisfying your
"focused on moving around in a single lecture".

Beyond that, you toss out thoughts like:

> Then I started speculating about taking notes tied to specific times.
> Can audacious do that? Is there a media player with that orientation?
> What should I be reading?

later qualified with:

> It was more of a "I wonder if..." question than a specific "How do I.."

I don't think you're serious about wanting to write some sort of
multimedia application combining editing and presenting text and
audio clips, so I think it's safe to ignore these asides.

You say you're looking for appropriate support. What are you trying
to get out of the documentation that requires it to be organised
in some particular way? I'll hazard that most people use these players
with barely a glance at any documentation. (Those criticising it could
file a bug or wishlist, to be passed upstream if appropriate.)

On Sun 12 Jan 2025 at 05:58:56 (-0600), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 1/11/25 10:24 AM, eben wrote:
[ … ]
> > So is mplayer.  As far as graphical programs, I think gmplayer has a fairly
> > small footprint, but I might have used it once.
> 
> It's not in Debian repository.

Yes it is: mplayer-gui. Playing mp3s is usual for "movie players".

¹ https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/12/msg00409.html

Cheers,
David.

Bridge without bridge-utils does not work

[Luís Felipe]

I'm trying to configure a persistent bridge through
/etc/network/interfaces. My configuration is as follows: iface ens192
inet manual auto br0 iface br0 inet static bridge_ports ens192
#address 10.60.0.20/24 #gateway 10.60.0.1 However, this returns the
following errors: ifup[742]: Cannot find device "br0" ifup[742]: ifup:
failed to bring up br0 I noticed that this occurs because I did not
install the deprecated package "bridge-utils", since Debian comes with
iproute2, which already creates bridges. If I install bridge-utils, it
works. It doesn't make sense to me that "ifup" depends on a deprecated
package that has already been replaced by iproute2. If I create a
bridge directly using "ip link add name br0 type bridge" it works
normally, but I want to leave it in etc/network/interface so that it
is a persistent and automatic configuration. Please, I need some help
with this because I don't believe that Debian forces us to install a
deprecated package.

-- 
At.te, Luís.

Re: Finding appropriate support for packages in Debian repository

[Dan Ritter]

Paul M. Foster wrote: 
> I would suggest moc (Music On Console). It's a terminal app, but it's very
> easy to operate. Simple single character commands, but no real menus. It's
> not a GUI per se, but uses ncurses. If you can deal with the terminal
> visually, moc should work for you.

I use moc regularly. It's great at what I want: play all the
music files in a directory, then stop, while allowing me to
pause, skip, or start over.

It does other things too, but it excels at that.

It has a local client-server arrangement, so the server part
(started automatically when you start mocp) runs in the
background and the client can go away and come back to issue
specific commands. That includes one-off commands, so it's easy
to integrate into scripts or GUIs.

-dsr-

Re: Slightly off topic--Wifi capable convenience outlet

[jeremy ardley]

On 13/1/25 05:49, Nate Bargmann wrote:

As the knowledge base on this list is wide and deep, I am asking to cut
through the commercial clutter.  Ideally, what I would like to find is a
WiFi (802.11a/b/g) capable device that would plug into the end of an
extension cord (common US NEMA 5-15 receptacle/plug) and allow me to
activate power to the connected device (in this case engine block
warmer) over the network via some scripting and cron jobs.



There are two basic technologies that can be used. WiFi and Zigbee using 
a range of smart end devices.


WiFi seems to be mostly proprietary and usually requires an internet 
connection. Zigbee is also proprietary but doesn't require an internet 
connection.


In both cases there is a wide hacker community that allows devices to be 
modified, firmware replaced, and proprietary (i.e. subscription) 
features removed.


I recommend looking at Zigbee to start with. You need to buy a USB to 
Zigbee converter for the controller, for which there are Linux driver 
packages. Then you need a matching Zigbee end device.


In my use-case, end devices require AC mains connection and can switch 
around 10 amps AC - I am switching lights off and on.


One relatively safe approach is to look at the Ikea Dirigera series. It 
has a strong hacker community and many user guides.

Re: Slightly off topic--Wifi capable convenience outlet

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 4:50 PM Nate Bargmann  wrote:
>
> As the knowledge base on this list is wide and deep, I am asking to cut
> through the commercial clutter.  Ideally, what I would like to find is a
> WiFi (802.11a/b/g) capable device that would plug into the end of an
> extension cord (common US NEMA 5-15 receptacle/plug) and allow me to
> activate power to the connected device (in this case engine block
> warmer) over the network via some scripting and cron jobs.

802.11a and 802.11b are from the 1990's and early 2000's. You should
have that disabled on your Wifi networks nowadays. They usually
interfere with current standards, like 802.11ac (Wifi5) and 802.11ax
(Wifi6). You will usually experience the problems as degraded
performance.

> Searches invariably lead to a near endless result list of proprietary
> devices and apps and household items that aren't likely to be up to the
> task of being exposed to outdoor elements.  Of course there is the Home
> Assistant forum I can sign up for and ask but I thought I would try here
> first in case someone has already found such devices.

I think you are looking for an outlet timer,
 or smart outlet plug,
. The smart ones
allow you to control the outlet from a phone or tablet.

Jeff

Slightly off topic--Wifi capable convenience outlet

[Nate Bargmann]

Hi All.

As the knowledge base on this list is wide and deep, I am asking to cut
through the commercial clutter.  Ideally, what I would like to find is a
WiFi (802.11a/b/g) capable device that would plug into the end of an
extension cord (common US NEMA 5-15 receptacle/plug) and allow me to
activate power to the connected device (in this case engine block
warmer) over the network via some scripting and cron jobs.

Searches invariably lead to a near endless result list of proprietary
devices and apps and household items that aren't likely to be up to the
task of being exposed to outdoor elements.  Of course there is the Home
Assistant forum I can sign up for and ask but I thought I would try here
first in case someone has already found such devices.

TIA

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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