Re: MUA CLI IMAP and SMTP without ncurses interface

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 05 ian 20, 10:29:43, 황병희 wrote:
> [sorry actually it is off-topic]
> 
> Jude DaShiell  writes:
> 
> >> No, there are apline and gnus, to name a few.
> > alpine will be a more correct spelling.
> 
> Really i read Reco's apline as *alpine* without doubt. There is some
> magic?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/can-you-raed-tihs/

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: uefi boot install and disk partitions

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 04/01/2020 à 20:47, Sven Joachim a écrit :

On 2020-01-04 13:38 +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote:


Some new boot specification mounts the EFI partition on /boot


Citation needed, which specification is that?


Freedesktop/systemd's Boot Loader Specification.

now 

Also mentionned in the Discoverable Partitions Specification.




but Debian does not follow it (yet) and still
mounts the EFI partition on /boot/efi.


There are good reasons for not mounting the EFI system partition on
/boot, the most important one is that FAT filesystems do not support
files with multiple hard links,


You mean that FAT filesystems do not support hard links at all. The 
concept of hard link requires some level of indirection between a 
directory entry and a file. In common Unix-like filesystems such as 
ext*, this is provided by inodes structures which contain the file 
metadata. FAT filesystems do not have such indirection and the file 
metadata are contained in the directory entry instead.



a feature that is crucial for dpkg.


I vaguely remember this, but not when and why dpkg needs to create 
additional hard links. Can you refresh my memories ?

No sound with Pulseaudio

[Yoann LE BARS]

Hello everybody out there!

I have just installed Debian 10 with XFCE on an old laptop. It works
quite well, but for the sound: I can not get any sound and in
Pavucontrol I can only see a virtual sound output.

However, the system seems to successfully detect the hardware:

$ lspci | grep -i audio
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Atom/Celeron/Pentium Processor
x5-E8000/J3xxx/N3xxx Series High Definition Audio Controller (rev 21)

$ cat /proc/asound/cards
 0 [PCH]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
  HDA Intel PCH at 0x9141 irq 122

$ cat /proc/asound/pcm
00-00: ALC255 Analog : ALC255 Analog : playback 1 : capture 1
00-03: HDMI 0 : HDMI 0 : playback 1

In Alsamixer, I have set everything to its maximum. Still, I cannot get
any sound and all that is available in Pavucontrol is a virtual output.
My guess is there is something wrong in PulseAudio configuration, but I
have not found anything helpful on the Internet and I do not have any
clue on what I can do.

Does anyone have an idea to solve this problem?

Best regards.

-- 
Yoann LE BARS
http://le-bars.net/yoann/
Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org

Re: uefi boot install and disk partitions

[tomas]

On Sun, Jan 05, 2020 at 10:47:52AM +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Le 04/01/2020 à 20:47, Sven Joachim a écrit :

[FAT, hard links]

> >a feature that is crucial for dpkg.
> 
> I vaguely remember this, but not when and why dpkg needs to create
> additional hard links. Can you refresh my memories ?

My search engine is lucky today (no, Goog, no cookies for you today ;-)

  
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/208073/dpkg-replacing-files-on-a-fat-filesystem

I'd be more worried about whatever packagers do in their post-install
scripts. After all, hard links are pretty handy when trying to do
atomic operations on file systems. If there's no policy explicitly
banning hard links, I'd expect them to be used...

Cheers
-- tomás


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Any Bluetooth 5 adapter Debian compatible

[André Rodier]

Hello,

I am looking for a USB / Bluetooth 5 adapter, natively compatible with
Debian.

Thanks,
André

Re: Any Bluetooth 5 adapter Debian compatible

[deloptes]

André Rodier wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am looking for a USB / Bluetooth 5 adapter, natively compatible with
> Debian.
> 
> Thanks,
> André

most of them are

I use ID 0a12:0001 Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd Bluetooth Dongle (HCI mode)

Double check if adapter (newer once) are LE - there were issues with them.

I would just pick up one and see if the chipset is supported in linux and
what is the experience with that chip.

regards

Package comitup: bootstrap Wifi using Wifi

[Cindy Sue Causey]

Hi..

Just an observation about a package that bubbled to the top of the
10,000 or so available on Debian's main repository. Debian-Cross has a
post this morning [0] that got me wondering how many things
"bootstrap" might sound interesting in Debian.

In the process, "comitup" showed up in an "apt-cache search" query.
Its description is:

+
Description-en: bootstrap Wifi using Wifi
 Comitup will attempt to connect to wifi using an established connection. If
 that fails, is creates a hotspot and web service to aid in configuring a
 connection.
+

Comitup didn't pull up at all when I searched 5860MB of outstanding
emails so I figured maybe it doesn't see much airtime. Am wandering
off now wondering out loud if a Wifi guru out here might, either yay
or nay, see any usefulness in comitup for assisting Users with
unusually difficult to connect Wifi setups.

Additionally, that creating a hotspot part of its description,
maybe... any useful tips about security related to that would be
helpful, too, now that this is out here where new Users turn for
information

Happy Sunday.. :)

[0] kfreebsd-any support in rebootstrap?
https://lists.debian.org/debian-cross/2020/01/msg0.html

PS Make that... 586*1* MB... QUIT IT!! :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with... a *oops*, forgot to buy those Debian-friendly dial-up
modems, need to do that... Right. Now. *

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Markus Grunwald]

Hello


[...] I can not get any sound and in



Pavucontrol I can only see a virtual sound output.
Does anyone have an idea to solve this problem?


I had the same experience for (almost) every new or old 
installation
that I made. Fresh install of testing or stable, never mind: each 
time,
Sound didn't work from scratch with Pulseaudio. I deinstalled it, 
and

voila, everything worked fine.

There is only one exception and that's my home theatre/gaming 
PC. I
don't remember the details now, but to get kodi run along with 
steam
nicely, I hat to get Pulseaudio to work. And in /this/ case, the 
PA
tools were a blessing because I could very easily switch between a 
7.2 and a

5.1 setup. That was necessary, because one game crashed with 7.2 🤦

So whenever I do a fresh installation now, I check if Pulseaudio 
works

and if not I immediately uninstall it. It's usually not worth the
hassle.

cu
--
Markus Grunwald
https://www.the-grue.de/~markus/markus_grunwald.gpg


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Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Levente]

There are switches also in alsamixer. Try thoes.

Also check if ther's other sound cards in your system, like a connected
hdmi.

It should work.


Levente


On Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 12:31 Markus Grunwald  wrote:

> Hello
>
> > [...] I can not get any sound and in
>
> > Pavucontrol I can only see a virtual sound output.
> >   Does anyone have an idea to solve this problem?
>
> I had the same experience for (almost) every new or old
> installation
> that I made. Fresh install of testing or stable, never mind: each
> time,
> Sound didn't work from scratch with Pulseaudio. I deinstalled it,
> and
> voila, everything worked fine.
>
> There is only one exception and that's my home theatre/gaming
> PC. I
> don't remember the details now, but to get kodi run along with
> steam
> nicely, I hat to get Pulseaudio to work. And in /this/ case, the
> PA
> tools were a blessing because I could very easily switch between a
> 7.2 and a
> 5.1 setup. That was necessary, because one game crashed with 7.2 🤦
>
> So whenever I do a fresh installation now, I check if Pulseaudio
> works
> and if not I immediately uninstall it. It's usually not worth the
> hassle.
>
> cu
> --
> Markus Grunwald
> https://www.the-grue.de/~markus/markus_grunwald.gpg
>

Re: uefi boot install and disk partitions

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 05/01/2020 à 11:00, to...@tuxteam.de a écrit :

On Sun, Jan 05, 2020 at 10:47:52AM +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

Le 04/01/2020 à 20:47, Sven Joachim a écrit :


[FAT, hard links]


a feature that is crucial for dpkg.


I vaguely remember this, but not when and why dpkg needs to create
additional hard links. Can you refresh my memories ?


   
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/208073/dpkg-replacing-files-on-a-fat-filesystem


Thanks. I would be very careful when using a hard link to back up a file 
before replacing it, because it depends on the method used to replace 
the original file with the new file. For example plain 'cp' or shell 
redirection does not break the link and overwrites the contents of the 
original file (and of the hard link), whereas 'cp -d' breaks the link 
and creates a new file.



I'd be more worried about whatever packagers do in their post-install
scripts. After all, hard links are pretty handy when trying to do
atomic operations on file systems.


What kind of atomic operations ?

Re: Any Bluetooth 5 adapter Debian compatible

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting deloptes (2020-01-05 12:24:55)
> André Rodier wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I am looking for a USB / Bluetooth 5 adapter, natively compatible with
> > Debian.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > André
> 
> most of them are
> 
> I use ID 0a12:0001 Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd Bluetooth Dongle (HCI mode)
> 
> Double check if adapter (newer once) are LE - there were issues with them.
> 
> I would just pick up one and see if the chipset is supported in linux and
> what is the experience with that chip.

I suspect you are talking about slightly different things.

Few bluetooth adapters work with Debian alone.

Most bluetooth adapters work when adding nonfree blobs to the mix.

(so seems one of you talk about Debian-the-project, and the other talks 
about Debian-the-main-product-by-Debian-the-project).

Sorry, I don't have a list of Bluetooth dongles not needing non-free 
runtime-loaded firmware.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: uefi boot install and disk partitions

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 1/5/20, to...@tuxteam.de  wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 05, 2020 at 10:47:52AM +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>> Le 04/01/2020 à 20:47, Sven Joachim a écrit :
>
> [FAT, hard links]
>
>> >a feature that is crucial for dpkg.
>>
>> I vaguely remember this, but not when and why dpkg needs to create
>> additional hard links. Can you refresh my memories ?
>
> My search engine is lucky today (no, Goog, no cookies for you today ;-)
>
>
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/208073/dpkg-replacing-files-on-a-fat-filesystem
>
> I'd be more worried about whatever packagers do in their post-install
> scripts. After all, hard links are pretty handy when trying to do
> atomic operations on file systems. If there's no policy explicitly
> banning hard links, I'd expect them to be used...


DISCLAIMER: HOPEFULLY I'm understanding the use of "hard links" here
such as has been my understanding of that topic for *many* years.. :)

For the most part, I thought about the only problem with hard links
was that whatever was using them had to exit an entire hierarchy to
then dig back in from the top to find its target. That comes from my
earliest days of creating anchor links in web design where you're
trying to help your webpages load as fast as possible for the end
user.

As I was sitting pondering this, two thoughts keep floating in my head...

1) Maybe this, primarily the "fat" part of it, somehow explains why
rsync flat out refused to copy a limited number of files over to a USB
for me a few ago. Happened a couple times in different situations. I
can't remember how to recreate it to say yay or nay on it having been
about this topic.

2) A couple years ago, my linux-image installations on debootstraps
were creating "hard" /vmlinuz and /initrd.img links. At some point in
my decades' old perennial newbie-ness, I accidentally stumbled on a
usage case where that very detrimentally linked out of my chroot
somehow... and was targeting my host's /boot directory, i.e. NOT the
intended /mnt/deboostrap/boot directory which it SHOULD have been
seeking, instead...

To this day to fix it, one of my early-on debootstrap checklist points
is to consciously verify that /vmlinuz and /initrd.img symlinks are
being used instead of hard links immediately after apt/apt-get is
finished installing linux-image. Apparently a Developer at some point
noticed the same on some level because I haven't had to create new
links there in a LONG time now.

In wondering how I would have caught that major whoa, maybe it was
that the hard link was reflecting the different kernel version. That
sounds like the most likely way a User would catch that kind of
[anomaly].

Maybe "fat" is trying to (intelligently, proactively) protect us
from the rare occasion something like my experience might occur??

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with... a... seriously... more backup modems... NOW. Because
weather-util says another thunderstorm is in the queue this week.
*

Re: Package comitup: bootstrap Wifi using Wifi

[Dan Ritter]

Cindy Sue Causey wrote: 
> +
> Description-en: bootstrap Wifi using Wifi
>  Comitup will attempt to connect to wifi using an established connection. If
>  that fails, is creates a hotspot and web service to aid in configuring a
>  connection.
> +

https://github.com/davesteele/comitup looks like the originator.

> Comitup didn't pull up at all when I searched 5860MB of outstanding
> emails so I figured maybe it doesn't see much airtime. Am wandering
> off now wondering out loud if a Wifi guru out here might, either yay
> or nay, see any usefulness in comitup for assisting Users with
> unusually difficult to connect Wifi setups.

Probably not.

>From a brief reading, comitup is for machines that have good
working wifi interfaces but are headless (no monitor, no
keyboard) and so cannot be told which wifi network they should
connect to.

This is plausible for a Raspberry Pi or similar tiny portable
computer, or an embedded device, but unlikely to be the case for
a laptop or desktop user.


> Additionally, that creating a hotspot part of its description,
> maybe... any useful tips about security related to that would be
> helpful, too, now that this is out here where new Users turn for
> information

The usual tool for this is hostapd. By default, you have no
security, so unless that's your intent, you will also need to
learn about the various kinds of encryption options and set one
up.

-dsr-

Re: Any Bluetooth 5 adapter Debian compatible

[Curt]

On 2020-01-05, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:

>
> Most bluetooth adapters work when adding nonfree blobs to the mix.
>

Not to belabor a trivial point, but I wondered whether "natively" (about
whose definition I didn't really reflect when first reading the OP) is
actually synonymous with free as opposed to nonfree in the Debian sense
(though upon reading your post it seems likely that must've been what
the OP meant by the word), or whether it doesn't in fact denote
something entirely orthogonal to that concept.

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Nate Bargmann]

IIRC, I've had to select the card (F6) in alsamixer and unmute its Master
channel (m command).  It's maddening at first when the default channel
in alsamixer and pavucontrol are not muted.  Once this is done
everything has worked well and I've been using pulseaudio for a number
of years.

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 05 ian 20, 10:44:21, Yoann LE BARS wrote:
> 
>   In Alsamixer, I have set everything to its maximum. Still, I cannot get
> any sound and all that is available in Pavucontrol is a virtual output.
> My guess is there is something wrong in PulseAudio configuration, but I
> have not found anything helpful on the Internet and I do not have any
> clue on what I can do.

Are you a member of the 'audio' group?
How is pulseaudio started?


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Debian Graphical Installer: why does it format swap?

[Clod Turner]

Hello all,

Longer version of the question : –

Why does the Debian Graphical installer compromise any other Linux install
on the same HDD/SSD by reformatting swap. I doubt that it affects Windows
since it does not use swap (I do not have any Windows installed so cannot
test).

I used debian-10.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso to add an installation to the same
HDD as my main Mint/Mate installation. I used the Graphical Installer
(which is recommended for new users) and when it came to partitions,
requested that Debian installed in to the largest free space. Everything
seemed to go well and after a lot of processing I was running a Debian/Mate
system.

However, when using the grub menu to access my main Mint/Mate system I
noted that the boot process was not normal. After some investigation,I
found the the UUID of the swap partition had been changed and therefore
initramfs.../resume and fstab were now pointing to a non-existent swap
partition. Also, once it start to run, the system had no active swap.

The reason is that no matter what options you try to select in the
partitioning dialogue, the installer will always reformat swap and
therefore swap gets a new UUID. Yes I can fix that but I don’t want to and
why format an already healthy swap partition anyway.

As I pointed out above, I have been using Mint/Mate and occasionally
SparkyLinux (approx 12 years without Windows) and always put a new release
or trial system into a new partition on my system disk, set it up, check it
out and secure it. During this process I would continue to maintain my
existing healthy system for day to day use – at no time does swap or any
other partition get reformatted unless I want it to. And then when ready,
change my main system to the new system.

I tried again with an empty drive adding two debian installs using default
settings in both cases. The first set up efi boot correctly as well as swap
and its own partition. The second added it’s own partition but compromised
the first installation by reformatting swap.

One of the other install options does appear to provide a way out of
formatting swap but that installer is quite technical and not something to
be used as a trial system.

Is the reformat normal for Debian or is it being instigated because of a
response from my old hardware (2010) to the hardware identification process
carried out during the install? It does not happen in Mint, Sparky or
Manjaro all of which I have trialled in the last month.

Re: Any Bluetooth 5 adapter Debian compatible

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting André Rodier (2020-01-05 13:38:03)
> On Sun, 2020-01-05 at 12:24 +0100, deloptes wrote:
> > André Rodier wrote:
> > > I am looking for a USB / Bluetooth 5 adapter, natively compatible 
> > > with Debian.

> > most of them are
> > 
> > I use ID 0a12:0001 Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd Bluetooth Dongle 
> > (HCI mode)
> > 
> > Double check if adapter (newer once) are LE - there were issues with 
> > them.
> > 
> > I would just pick up one and see if the chipset is supported in 
> > linux and what is the experience with that chip.
> > 
> > regards
> > 
> 
> Thanks for your answer. I have this one, but I could not manage to 
> have it working. The usual hciconfig command fails, with an error 
> message "not supported". The interface is marked as down.
> 
> The device appears on Windows, but neither works.
> 
> I don't mind (too much) a non-free firmware for now.

Ah, if non-free is acceptable for you then I apologize for my unhelpful 
and wrong guess in my previous response, and can maybe hepl a bit:

Try this:

  sudo apt install firmware-linux firmware-brcm80211 firmware-atheros 
firmware-realtek

...and then reboot.

Good luck!

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Yoann LE BARS]

Hello everybody out there!

On 2020/01/05 at 00:31 pm, Markus Grunwald wrote:
> I had the same experience for (almost) every new or old installation
> that I made. Fresh install of testing or stable, never mind: each time,
> Sound didn't work from scratch with Pulseaudio. I deinstalled it, and
> voila, everything worked fine.

The thing is, the user of this laptop uses applications which needs
Pulseaudio running. So, I need to make it running.

Best regards.

-- 
Yoann LE BARS
http://le-bars.net/yoann/
Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Yoann LE BARS]

Hello everybody out there!

On 2020/01/05 at 00:50 pm, Leventewrote:
> There are switches also in alsamixer. Try thoes.

Well, I have check out: nothing is muted in Alsamixer.

> Also check if ther's other sound cards in your system, like a connected
> hdmi.

No, there is only one sound device on this computer.

Best regards.

-- 
Yoann LE BARS
http://le-bars.net/yoann/
Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Yoann LE BARS]

Hello everybody out there!

On 2020/01/05 on 3:43 pm, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> IIRC, I've had to select the card (F6) in alsamixer and unmute its Master
> channel (m command).  It's maddening at first when the default channel
> in alsamixer and pavucontrol are not muted.  Once this is done
> everything has worked well and I've been using pulseaudio for a number
> of years.

Well, I have unmute everything on Alsamixer, but still nothing but
virtual output appears on Pavucontrol.

Best regards.

-- 
Yoann LE BARS
http://le-bars.net/yoann/
Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Yoann LE BARS]

Hello everybody out there!

On 2020/01/05 4:14 pm, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> Are you a member of the 'audio' group?

Yes indeed.

> How is pulseaudio started?

This is a good question, I do not really know …

Anyway, restarting Pulseaudio does not change anything.

Best regards.

-- 
Yoann LE BARS
http://le-bars.net/yoann/
Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org

Re: Debian Graphical Installer: why does it format swap?

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 05/01/2020 à 16:40, Clod Turner a écrit :


Why does the Debian Graphical installer compromise any other Linux install
on the same HDD/SSD by reformatting swap.


This is a well known long standing "feature" of the Debian installer. It 
is not specific to the graphical installer. Also it does not break all 
other Linux systems, only those which use a swap device (not a swap 
file, like Ubuntu and Mint do now) and identify it by UUID or LABEL. 
Linux systems which identify their swap device by PARTUUID, PARTLABEL or 
persistent device node (such as LVM logical volumes) are unaffected, as 
the reformat does not affect these identifiers. Those which rely on 
systemd-auto-gpt-generator to activate any swap partition on a GPT 
system disk are also unaffected.



no matter what options you try to select in the
partitioning dialogue, the installer will always reformat swap and


This is not correct. You have the option to not use existing swap 
devices, and the installer will not reformat them.

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Georgi Naplatanov]

On 1/5/20 6:27 PM, Yoann LE BARS wrote:
> 
> Hello everybody out there!
> 
> On 2020/01/05 at 00:50 pm, Leventewrote:
>> There are switches also in alsamixer. Try thoes.
> 
>   Well, I have check out: nothing is muted in Alsamixer.
> 
>> Also check if ther's other sound cards in your system, like a connected
>> hdmi.
> 
>   No, there is only one sound device on this computer.
> 
>   Best regards.
> 

Hey,

try this:

- start pavucontrol application
- select "Configuration" tab and select "Analog Stereo Duplex" under
"Built-in Audio" device.

HTH

Kind regards
Georgi

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Yoann LE BARS]

Hello everybody out there!

On 2020//01/05 5:45 pm, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
> try this:
> 
> - start pavucontrol application
> - select "Configuration" tab and select "Analog Stereo Duplex" under
> "Built-in Audio" device.

Well, unfortunately, there is no device available for configuration.

Best regards.

-- 
Yoann LE BARS
http://le-bars.net/yoann/
Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Curt]

On 2020-01-05, Yoann LE BARS  wrote:
>
> Hello everybody out there!
>
> On 2020/01/05 at 00:50 pm, Leventewrote:
>> There are switches also in alsamixer. Try thoes.
>
>   Well, I have check out: nothing is muted in Alsamixer.

For the card in question, of course (HDA whatever--F6).

>> Also check if ther's other sound cards in your system, like a connected
>> hdmi.
>
>   No, there is only one sound device on this computer.

Is the sound module being loaded (snd_hda_intel et. al.)?

>   Best regards.
>


-- 
"J'ai pour me guérir du jugement des autres toute la distance qui me sépare de
moi." Antonin Artaud

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Curt]

On 2020-01-05, Yoann LE BARS  wrote:
>
> Hello everybody out there!
>
> On 2020//01/05 5:45 pm, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
>> try this:
>> 
>> - start pavucontrol application
>> - select "Configuration" tab and select "Analog Stereo Duplex" under
>> "Built-in Audio" device.
>
>   Well, unfortunately, there is no device available for configuration.

You need one in order to get anywhere.

>   Best regards.
>


-- 
"J'ai pour me guérir du jugement des autres toute la distance qui me sépare de
moi." Antonin Artaud

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Yoann LE BARS]

Hello everybody out there!

On 2020/01/05 6:09 pm, Curt wrote:
>>  Well, I have check out: nothing is muted in Alsamixer.
> 
> For the card in question, of course (HDA whatever--F6).

Of course, I have enabled every view and selected the HDA Intel PCH 
device.

> Is the sound module being loaded (snd_hda_intel et. al.)?

$ lsmod | grep snd
snd_hrtimer16384  1
snd_seq81920  1
snd_seq_device 16384  1 snd_seq
snd_hda_codec_hdmi 57344  1
snd_hda_codec_realtek   122880  1
snd_hda_codec_generic86016  1 snd_hda_codec_realtek
snd_hda_intel  45056  4
snd_hda_codec 151552  4
snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec_realtek
snd_hda_core   98304  5
snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_codec_realtek
snd_hwdep  20480  1 snd_hda_codec
snd_pcm   114688  5
snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_core
snd_timer  36864  4 snd_seq,snd_hrtimer,snd_pcm
snd   102400  17
snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hwdep,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_timer,snd_pcm
soundcore  16384  1 snd

Best regards.

-- 
Yoann LE BARS
http://le-bars.net/yoann/
Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Yoann LE BARS]

Hello everybody out there!

On 2020/01/05 6:19 pm, Curt wrote:
>>  Well, unfortunately, there is no device available for configuration.
> 
> You need one in order to get anywhere.

Indeed. So, there is still this question: why does the system detect
the sound card and why can I not find it on Pavucontrol?

Let remind what I gave at the first message:

$ lspci | grep -i audio
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Atom/Celeron/Pentium Processor
x5-E8000/J3xxx/N3xxx Series High Definition Audio Controller (rev 21)

$ cat /proc/asound/cards
 0 [PCH]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
  HDA Intel PCH at 0x9141 irq 122

$ cat /proc/asound/pcm
00-00: ALC255 Analog : ALC255 Analog : playback 1 : capture 1
00-03: HDMI 0 : HDMI 0 : playback 1

So, I am still at the same point: it seems the system does detect the
hardware, but it also seems that there is some trouble in Pulseaudio
configuration and I still do not have any clue on how to solve this.

Best regards.

-- 
Yoann LE BARS
http://le-bars.net/yoann/
Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Georgi Naplatanov]

On 1/5/20 7:08 PM, Yoann LE BARS wrote:
> 
> Hello everybody out there!
> 
> On 2020//01/05 5:45 pm, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
>> try this:
>>
>> - start pavucontrol application
>> - select "Configuration" tab and select "Analog Stereo Duplex" under
>> "Built-in Audio" device.
> 
>   Well, unfortunately, there is no device available for configuration.
> 

Make sure that pulseaudio is running. If it's running then another
possibility may be that another daemon is using audio device and you
have to figure out which daemon this is.


try to search on web with keyword "pulseaudio no device detected" and
try to figure out what the problem is.

Re: Debian Graphical Installer: why does it format swap?

[Felix Miata]

Clod Turner composed on 2020-01-05 15:40 (UTC):

> no matter what options you try to select in the
> partitioning dialogue, the installer will always reformat swap and
> therefore swap gets a new UUID.

Not true. There's another selectable option I always use: create no swap. /If/
swap is actually needed, the existing one can be added to fstab after 
installation
is complete, easy if by-label or by LABEL instead of by-uuid.

I have swap partition, but with 16G RAM it was never used, so because not
/needed/, I keep it turned off.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Curt]

On 2020-01-05, Yoann LE BARS  wrote:
>
>   So, I am still at the same point: it seems the system does detect the
> hardware, but it also seems that there is some trouble in Pulseaudio
> configuration and I still do not have any clue on how to solve this.

You might try

 rm -r ~/.pulse*; pulseaudio -k

to "refresh" your user config.

>   Best regards.
>


-- 
"J'ai pour me guérir du jugement des autres toute la distance qui me sépare de
moi." Antonin Artaud

Re: Debian Graphical Installer: why does it format swap?

[Joe]

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 15:40:56 +
Clod Turner  wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Longer version of the question : –
> 
> Why does the Debian Graphical installer compromise any other Linux
> install on the same HDD/SSD by reformatting swap. I doubt that it
> affects Windows since it does not use swap (I do not have any Windows
> installed so cannot test).
> 
Windows uses a swap file, not a separate partition. We are told that
there is no performance penalty for Linux to do so also.

> I used debian-10.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso to add an installation to the
> same HDD as my main Mint/Mate installation. I used the Graphical
> Installer (which is recommended for new users)

Did you select the expert installation from the advanced options? It
could certainly be argued that someone building a multi-boot system is
not a 'new user'.

As far as I can recall, the expert system allows you to designate
existing partitions to be used or not, and also whether to reformat
them. Someone using hibernation with multiple OSes would not want them
to share /swap.

-- 
Joe

Re: Any Bluetooth 5 adapter Debian compatible

[deloptes]

André Rodier wrote:

> Thanks for your answer. I have this one, but I could not manage to have
> it working. The usual hciconfig command fails, with an error message
> "not supported". The interface is marked as down.
> 
> The device appears on Windows, but neither works.
> 
> I don't mind (too much) a non-free firmware for now.

I have installed

# dpkg -l | grep firm
ii  bluez-firmware  1.2-4   
 
all  Firmware for Bluetooth devices
ii  firmware-linux-free 3.4 
 
all  Binary firmware for various drivers in the Linux kernel
ii  firmware-misc-nonfree   20190114-2  
 
all  Binary firmware for various drivers in the Linux kernel

I think could be you want the bluez-firmware package.

If it does not work - try opening the system log unplug and plug in the usb
stick - or unload - load the drivers and post the log output.

regards

Re: Debian Graphical Installer: why does it format swap?

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 05/01/2020 à 18:50, Joe a écrit :


Windows uses a swap file, not a separate partition. We are told that
there is no performance penalty for Linux to do so also.


Using a swap file can cause a performance penalty if the file is heavily 
fragmented. Granted, it also applies to a fragmented LVM logical volume, 
but the granularity is bigger (4 MiB extents for LVM vs 4 KiB for usual 
filesystem blocks). Also, not all filesystems support swap files 
properly. For those which don't, you can still use a swap file through a 
loop device, but this will cause a performance penalty and I doubt it is 
supported in /etc/fstab.



As far as I can recall, the expert system allows you to designate
existing partitions to be used or not, and also whether to reformat
them.


This has nothing to do with the expert install but with the manual 
partitioning, which is also available in the standard install.

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 05 ian 20, 17:37:42, Yoann LE BARS wrote:
> 
> Hello everybody out there!
> 
> On 2020/01/05 4:14 pm, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > Are you a member of the 'audio' group?
> 
>   Yes indeed.
> 
> > How is pulseaudio started?
> 
>   This is a good question, I do not really know …
> 
>   Anyway, restarting Pulseaudio does not change anything.

As far as I remember pulseaudio can be started either as a system 
service or a user service. top, ps, etc. will show. It probably doesn't 
matter if the user is already a member of 'audio'.

As someone else mentioned, possibly some other process is keeping the 
audio device busy. 'lsof | grep /dev/snd/' (as root) should help.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Any Bluetooth 5 adapter Debian compatible

[deloptes]

André Rodier wrote:

> For a while, I thought your instructions would work, but no:
> 
> --
> root@lovelace:~# hciconfig
> hci1:   Type: Primary  Bus: USB
> BD Address: 00:1A:7D:DA:71:11  ACL MTU: 679:9  SCO MTU: 48:16
> DOWN
> RX bytes:574 acl:0 sco:0 events:30 errors:0
> TX bytes:368 acl:0 sco:0 commands:30 errors:0
> 
> hci0:   Type: Primary  Bus: USB
> BD Address: 44:85:00:73:E2:17  ACL MTU: 1021:4  SCO MTU: 96:6
> UP RUNNING PSCAN
> RX bytes:15131 acl:0 sco:0 events:2447 errors:0
> TX bytes:602626 acl:0 sco:0 commands:2445 errors:0
> 
> root@lovelace:~# hciconfig hci1
> hci1:   Type: Primary  Bus: USB
> BD Address: 00:1A:7D:DA:71:11  ACL MTU: 679:9  SCO MTU: 48:16
> DOWN
> RX bytes:574 acl:0 sco:0 events:30 errors:0
> TX bytes:368 acl:0 sco:0 commands:30 errors:0
> 
> root@lovelace:~# hciconfig hci1 up
> Can't init device hci1: Operation not supported (95)
> root@lovelace:~# hciconfig hci1 reset
> Can't init device hci1: Operation not supported (95)
> root@lovelace:~# journalctl -f
> -- Logs begin at Sun 2020-01-05 16:27:32 GMT. --
> ...
> Jan 05 17:46:26 lovelace kernel: usb 1-1: new full-speed USB device
> number 13 using xhci_hcd
> Jan 05 17:46:26 lovelace kernel: usb 1-1: New USB device found,
> idVendor=0a12, idProduct=0001, bcdDevice=88.91
> Jan 05 17:46:26 lovelace kernel: usb 1-1: New USB device strings:
> Mfr=0, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
> Jan 05 17:46:26 lovelace kernel: usb 1-1: Product: USB1.1-A
> Jan 05 17:46:26 lovelace URfkill[973]: adding killswitch idx 6 soft 0
> hard 0
> Jan 05 17:46:26 lovelace URfkill[973]: killswitch state:
> KILLSWITCH_STATE_UNBLOCKED new_state: KILLSWITCH_STATE_UNBLOCKED
> Jan 05 17:46:26 lovelace URfkill[973]: Setting device 6 (BLUETOOTH) to
> unblock
> Jan 05 17:46:32 lovelace systemd[1]: systemd-rfkill.service: Succeeded.
> --
> 
> I do not have the time to investigate further, so if you know a web
> site to order adapters that work, I am very interested.

I am not sure it will solve your problem.

The devices in debian buster are managed by bluetoothctl. Prerequisite is
you unblock the device though it says at the end of the log output it is
disabled - double check it with rfkill.

Add your user to the bluetooth group and perhaps other groups needed by the
purpose of use.

Another thing is that you plug in the stick to usb3 port. If you have usb2
port try there.

Buying a new one could solve but also could not solve your problem.

regards

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Curt]

On 2020-01-05, Andrei POPESCU  wrote:
>
> As someone else mentioned, possibly some other process is keeping the=20
> audio device busy. 'lsof | grep /dev/snd/' (as root) should help.
>

 fuser -v /dev/snd/*

as a normal joe seems to do the trick here too.


-- 
"J'ai pour me guérir du jugement des autres toute la distance qui me sépare de
moi." Antonin Artaud

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Curt]

On 2020-01-05, Curt  wrote:
> On 2020-01-05, Yoann LE BARS  wrote:
>>
>>  So, I am still at the same point: it seems the system does detect the
>> hardware, but it also seems that there is some trouble in Pulseaudio
>> configuration and I still do not have any clue on how to solve this.
>
> You might try
>
>  rm -r ~/.pulse*; pulseaudio -k
>
> to "refresh" your user config.
>
>>  Best regards.
>>

The relevant Debian wiki suggests (as a possible cure for missing
playback devices):

 $ rm -r ~/.config/pulse /tmp/pulse-*
 $ pulseaudio --kill
 $ pulseaudio --start

https://wiki.debian.org/PulseAudio#Missing_playback_devices_or_audio_capture

-- 
"J'ai pour me guérir du jugement des autres toute la distance qui me sépare de
moi." Antonin Artaud

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 05 ian 20, 18:32:22, Curt wrote:
> On 2020-01-05, Andrei POPESCU  wrote:
> >
> > As someone else mentioned, possibly some other process is keeping the=20
> > audio device busy. 'lsof | grep /dev/snd/' (as root) should help.
> >
> 
>  fuser -v /dev/snd/*

Nice, learned something new.

> as a normal joe seems to do the trick here too.

Not for me, needs root as well.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Debian Graphical Installer: why does it format swap?

[Joe]

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:22:58 +0100
Pascal Hambourg  wrote:

> Le 05/01/2020 à 18:50, Joe a écrit :
> >
> > Windows uses a swap file, not a separate partition. We are told that
> > there is no performance penalty for Linux to do so also.  
> 
> Using a swap file can cause a performance penalty if the file is
> heavily fragmented. Granted, it also applies to a fragmented LVM
> logical volume, but the granularity is bigger (4 MiB extents for LVM
> vs 4 KiB for usual filesystem blocks). Also, not all filesystems
> support swap files properly. For those which don't, you can still use
> a swap file through a loop device, but this will cause a performance
> penalty and I doubt it is supported in /etc/fstab.
> 
> > As far as I can recall, the expert system allows you to designate
> > existing partitions to be used or not, and also whether to reformat
> > them.  
> 
> This has nothing to do with the expert install but with the manual 
> partitioning, which is also available in the standard install.
> 

OK, I stand corrected, I haven't used a standard install in many years,
not since it failed to find a DHCP server (I wasn't using one then) and
left me with no network interfaces but lo.

-- 
Joe

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Yoann LE BARS]

Hello everybody out there!

On 2020/01/05 7:37 pm, Curt wrote:
> The relevant Debian wiki suggests (as a possible cure for missing
> playback devices):
> 
>  $ rm -r ~/.config/pulse /tmp/pulse-*
>  $ pulseaudio --kill
>  $ pulseaudio --start
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/PulseAudio#Missing_playback_devices_or_audio_capture

Yes, I have tried this before asking for help in this list. I still
cannot get any sound. Actually, I have read (once again before asking
for help on this list) the wiki page on Pulseaudio and have not been
able to solve the problem.

Best regards.

-- 
Yoann LE BARS
http://le-bars.net/yoann/
Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org

Re: No sound with Pulseaudio

[Yoann LE BARS]

Hello everybody out there!

On 2020/01/05 7:25 pm, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> As someone else mentioned, possibly some other process is keeping the 
> audio device busy. 'lsof | grep /dev/snd/' (as root) should help.

Yes, why have I not done this before?

# lsof | grep /dev/snd/
lsof: WARNING: can't stat() fuse.gvfsd-fuse file system /run/user/1000/gvfs
  Output information may be incomplete.
alsactl573   root4r  CHR
116,7   0t0  16293 /dev/snd/controlC0
timidity   861   timidity  mem   CHR
116,216230 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
timidity   861   timidity3r  CHR
116,33   0t0  12983 /dev/snd/timer
timidity   861   timidity4u  CHR
116,2   0t0  16230 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
timidity   861   timidity5u  CHR
116,7   0t0  16293 /dev/snd/controlC0
timidity   861   timidity6u  CHR
116,1   0t0  12984 /dev/snd/seq

Now, this is interesting, as some reported troubles between Timidity
and Pulseaudio (e.g. https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=154002).
I have no problem with Timidity and Pulseaudio on other Debian 10
systems, as well on Fedora or Ubuntu. Anyway, I should investigate this.

Best regards.

-- 
Yoann LE BARS
http://le-bars.net/yoann/
Diaspora* : yleb...@framasphere.org

Re: Giveaway-Laptop: sending system mails

[Markus Grunwald]

Hi Reco,

> NEWS.Debian.gz have this to say on the issue:


That was the hint I needed :) Thanks a lot! I sometimes read the files
in /usr/share/doc/${PACKAGE}, but not often enough, it seems.

Now I have a working E-Mail setup and the guy who got the computer is
happy with it. He doesn't even know he's using Linux instead of window$
:p

Thanks again,
--
Markus Grunwald
https://www.the-grue.de/~markus/markus_grunwald.gpg


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

apple mini

[mick crane]

yes I know this is Debian user list
yes I know that apple is unix.
I got an apple mini to give to somebody
to clean it up is that
"userdel"
"makeusr" or something like that ?
mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Debian Graphical Installer: why does it format swap?

[Peter Ehlert]

that reformat "feature" is hateful. I fail to see any advantage.
It does break the other systems, but they can be recovered by editing 
you fstab file with the New UUID as you know.


I use the Manual mode... _auto installers never seem to get it right_ 
(my way).


*Using Manual, select existing swap partitions, one by one, and edit 
settings to "do not use". That prevents the reformatting and new UUID.

On 1/5/20 7:40 AM, Clod Turner wrote:


Hello all,

Longer version of the question : –

Why does the Debian Graphical installer compromise any other Linux 
install on the same HDD/SSD by reformatting swap. I doubt that it 
affects Windows since it does not use swap (I do not have any Windows 
installed so cannot test).


I used debian-10.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso to add an installation to the 
same HDD as my main Mint/Mate installation. I used the Graphical 
Installer (which is recommended for new users) and when it came to 
partitions, requested that Debian installed in to the largest free 
space. Everything seemed to go well and after a lot of processing I 
was running a Debian/Mate system.


However, when using the grub menu to access my main Mint/Mate system I 
noted that the boot process was not normal. After some investigation,I 
found the the UUID of the swap partition had been changed and 
therefore initramfs.../resume and fstab were now pointing to a 
non-existent swap partition. Also, once it start to run, the system 
had no active swap.


The reason is that no matter what options you try to select in the 
partitioning dialogue, the installer will always reformat swap and 
therefore swap gets a new UUID. Yes I can fix that but I don’t want to 
and why format an already healthy swap partition anyway.


As I pointed out above, I have been using Mint/Mate and occasionally 
SparkyLinux (approx 12 years without Windows) and always put a new 
release or trial system into a new partition on my system disk, set it 
up, check it out and secure it. During this process I would continue 
to maintain my existing healthy system for day to day use – at no time 
does swap or any other partition get reformatted unless I want it to. 
And then when ready, change my main system to the new system.


BTW: The Ubuntu/Mint etc. installers do the opposite, as default they 
set all swaps to mount, but do not format them. Also undesirable for the 
same reasons.


I tried again with an empty drive adding two debian installs using 
default settings in both cases. The first set up efi boot correctly as 
well as swap and its own partition. The second added it’s own 
partition but compromised the first installation by reformatting swap.



I don't use EFI, only legacy, but I don't think it matters.


One of the other install options does appear to provide a way out of 
formatting swap but that installer is quite technical and not 
something to be used as a trial system.


Is the reformat normal for Debian or is it being instigated because of 
a response from my old hardware (2010) to the hardware identification 
process carried out during the install? It does not happen in Mint, 
Sparky or Manjaro all of which I have trialled in the last month.


I too do lots of test installs (same menu and more), and often have many 
swap partitions to deal with. I use a Separate swap for each OS.
In my mind the Manual Debian Installer is far superior to the others, 
despite this annoyance.

Re: apple mini

[David Christensen]

On 2020-01-05 13:54, mick crane wrote:

yes I know this is Debian user list
yes I know that apple is unix.
I got an apple mini to give to somebody
to clean it up is that
"userdel"
"makeusr" or something like that ?
mick


I would boot a Debian installer or live image and zero the drive(s) 
inside the Apple Mac mini.



David

Re: apple mini

[Marco Shaw]

https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-add-and-delete-users-on-debian-8

Do you know what might be on this system?  It’s “best” to wipe it clean though. 

That will take more effort obviously:
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/how-to-wipe-a-mac-hard-drive/

> On Jan 5, 2020, at 5:54 PM, mick crane  wrote:
> 
> yes I know this is Debian user list
> yes I know that apple is unix.
> I got an apple mini to give to somebody
> to clean it up is that
> "userdel"
> "makeusr" or something like that ?
> mick
> -- 
> Key ID4BFEBB31
> 

Re: apple mini

[Felix Miata]

mick crane composed on 2020-01-05 21:54 (UTC):

> yes I know this is Debian user list
> yes I know that apple is unix.
> I got an apple mini to give to somebody
> to clean it up is that
> "userdel"
> "makeusr" or something like that ?

Seems all you really need to do is remove the content from the home directories,
e.g. rm -R
/Users//[.Trash,,bash_sessions,.cache,config,.local,Documents,Desktop,Downloads,Movies,Music,Pictures]/*
or similar ought to get most of what matters:
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/macOS-home2.jpg

Whether the new Mac owner could use it if the only configured user's entire home
tree were to be removed I have no idea.

Better I think to boot the MacOS and goto system preferences > users & groups 
and
add a new account, followed by removing the old account. It's logical that 
removal
would result in a popup asking whether or not to remove (move to trash?) the old
user's files. I'm not in the mood to attempt it here. It took too long for me to
figure out how to configure things the way I can tolerate the MacOS way of doing
things.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: MUA CLI IMAP and SMTP without ncurses interface

[john doe]

On 1/4/2020 6:12 PM, Steve Kemp wrote:
>> As far as I can tell, Mutt uses the ncurses interface
>
>   Yes.
>
>> Can I use Mutt without ncurses?
>
>   No.
>
>> If no, is my only alternative Sup/Notmuch?
>
>   https://aerc-mail.org/ is new, and golang-based.  No ncurses.
>
>   Though it has to be said it seems like an odd-requirement,
>  is there a specific reason to avoid ncurses?
>
>> If I use Sup or Notmuch I also need to configure IMAP and SMTP access,
>> is there a MUA which does IMAP SMTP that does not rely on ncurses?
>
>   On that I have no idea; I wrote a console-based mail-client,
>  inspired by mutt but using Lua for UI/scripting, but I just
>  exec "/usr/sbin/sendmail .." for outgoing mail, and that's a
>  pretty common approach.   
>

Yes there is, I connect to a VM using SSH and my Windows screenreader
does not like curses interface and maybe .other interface(s) as well

Regarding Alpine/re-alpine, it is somewhat better accessible then Mutt
but far from usable at first glance.

Regarding gnus, is only for emax, if I'm not mistaking and I'm a vim
user! :)

Regarding "mail", I'll look into that, thanks to...@tuxteam.de.

My goal in all of this is to move away from Enigmail/Thunderbird for the
following reasons:
- Thunderbird moving from enigmail to use his own GPG implementation
- Using GPG with multiple signing subkies


Sendmail/msmtp could do what I want, I'll look into that.

Thanks to Jonathan Dowland  for Mutt and 'slang'.

Thanks to Reco  for his input.


Thanks to anyone else for their input.

--
John Doe

Re: MUA CLI IMAP and SMTP without ncurses interface

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting john doe (2020-01-06 07:54:44)
> On 1/4/2020 6:12 PM, Steve Kemp wrote:
> >> As far as I can tell, Mutt uses the ncurses interface
> >
> >   Yes.
> >
> >> Can I use Mutt without ncurses?
> >
> >   No.
> >
> >> If no, is my only alternative Sup/Notmuch?
> >
> >   https://aerc-mail.org/ is new, and golang-based.  No ncurses.
> >
> >   Though it has to be said it seems like an odd-requirement,
> >  is there a specific reason to avoid ncurses?
> >
> >> If I use Sup or Notmuch I also need to configure IMAP and SMTP access,
> >> is there a MUA which does IMAP SMTP that does not rely on ncurses?
> >
> >   On that I have no idea; I wrote a console-based mail-client,
> >  inspired by mutt but using Lua for UI/scripting, but I just
> >  exec "/usr/sbin/sendmail .." for outgoing mail, and that's a
> >  pretty common approach.   
> >
> 
> Yes there is, I connect to a VM using SSH and my Windows screenreader
> does not like curses interface and maybe .other interface(s) as well
> 
> Regarding Alpine/re-alpine, it is somewhat better accessible then Mutt
> but far from usable at first glance.
> 
> Regarding gnus, is only for emax, if I'm not mistaking and I'm a vim
> user! :)
> 
> Regarding "mail", I'll look into that, thanks to...@tuxteam.de.
> 
> My goal in all of this is to move away from Enigmail/Thunderbird for the
> following reasons:
> - Thunderbird moving from enigmail to use his own GPG implementation
> - Using GPG with multiple signing subkies
> 
> 
> Sendmail/msmtp could do what I want, I'll look into that.
> 
> Thanks to Jonathan Dowland  for Mutt and 'slang'.
> 
> Thanks to Reco  for his input.
> 
> 
> Thanks to anyone else for their input.

I appreciate this thread - for me Steve's lumail was new info worth a 
closer look!

I currently use "afew" - a notmuch frontend ising Urwid to draw.

On my laptops I use interimap - a more efficient alternative to 
offlineimap (only available in unstable and testing currently).

As MTA I use msmtp on laptops, and postfix, dovecot-imap, dovecot-sieve 
and spamassassin on reliably connected hosts.


Enjoy the many options :-)

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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