Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
See my comments below. On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 19:04, Halim Boukaram wrote: > I don't know enough to really know, but it sure sounds > impressive. > > Presumably you are aware of the various GNU projects for these > sorts of > libraries? > > If not, go hunting from www.gnu.org -> software or something > like that. > > If so, what does your library bring to the table that the > existing > libraries don't have? > > What license are you planning to use? > > If you are planning to use GPL or LGPL or MIT/X style license, > is there > room for cooperation/ integration with existing (namely GNU) > projects > that are similar? > > And a big welcome aboard to Debian, The Universal Operating > System (TM). > > cheers > zen > > -- > * Debian Enterprise: http://debian-enterprise.org/ > * Homepage: http://soulsound.net/ > * PGP Key: http://soulsound.net/zen.asc > * Please respect the confidentiality of this email as sensibly > warranted. > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > // > > Hi > > The closest thing to my own library is Octave. > > the main differences are: > > pluses for mine: > > 1) Octave only allows Ordinary differential equations of a > very simple form. My library can take any ode of any form > > 2) there is no support for general least-squares methods in > Octave mine done. > > 3) octave can only solve equations, differientail equations, > integrals, by one method. mine can solve them using many > different numerical methods. > > 4) octave han only handle continous integrals and fourier > transforms mine can also handle discrete. > > 5) octave seems to have many dependancies not included in > default libraries and programs mine is programmed from > scratch. > > negatives for mine: > > 1) no financial, image or audio stuff. > > 2) no statististical stuff(yet) > > > /// > > I'm fairly sure that my library is more powerful for > mathematical stuff and pure numerical solutions. > > as mentioned before my library has more than one way of > integrating or differentiating ex i have 6 seperate functions > for integrating which are computer simulations of known rules > such as trapizoidal, boole, simpson, simpson3/8, > trapizoidal-4,trapizoidal-8. > > > / If you want decent comments and feedback, you have to reply-all to the list, so that those who actually know about maths libraries can comment. I can't do this because I don't know about them. If you do reply-all, it is generally better to remove the address of the person you are replying to (unless they ask for that) so that they don't get two copies of your message (which is annoying). > how do i get the library evaluated? Sell it, or give demo copies away, or make it Free Software and set up a web page so that other people in the Free Software community will be interested in helping out/ supporting - but that will only happen if you use a Free Software license. > its all done with help file and working examples. > > If possible id like to keep it closed source. i dont want any > one ripping me off. Thats happened to me alot and is really > frustrating having someone else claim the glory for your work. > > is there such a thing as closed source under linux? if not > then i'll take the closest licence. You might try packaging for debian "non-free" archive, but there are plans to remove that from Debian. > PS: I could make head or tail of the GPL, LGPL MIT/X licences > that you pointed out and thats the third time that i've read > them in detail. That's probably because you don't have clear goals - what do you want to achieve - eg. fame and glory, money, resume kudos, etc ??? All of these can be achieved with Free Software, but yo
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
Ok so i want the library as Free and under the GPL License. I dont want to work with Octave since it is interpreter based and the whole point behind numerical analysis is super speed. If other people want to work on it with me thats fine but i have to say where numerical methods are concerned you have to be good at: 1) math 2) assembly 3) C 4) math Also the university i'm from sukz big time. The Computer Science and Enginnering students dont even know what linux is (go figure). They think that MS visual basic, MS visual .net etc are THE languages. The moral of the story is I have absolutely no faith in other programmers as i have never actaully met other programmers. 6000 students and only 2 people I know are good at programming and they are the only to people who know Linux( anyone see a pattern :)? ) Ok so with the library as Free and License as GPL (or MIT/X or LGPL I dont really care as I've completely given up on understanding the Licence philosophies) where do i goe from here? Somewhere on debian page there was something about uploading and testing. Also if any one can explain to me the licensing issues in 5 3-letter words or less I'll be happy. Hey I might be good at C, assembly, and math*2 but i really suck at legal gibberish. power to the penguin PS: Zen my library is perfect but if you want I'll try my best to add some bugs Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
> PS:
>
> Zen my library is perfect but if you want I'll try my best to
> add some bugs
Hey, your libary may well be perfect :)
More power to you, dude!
http://www.gnu.org/directory/ is the top level GNU software page,
and here is the GNU mathematics packages page:
http://www.gnu.org/directory/science/math/
And those pages don't even seem to list glpk - GNU Linear Programming
Kit (but searching from those pages for "glpk" finds it). Your stuff
sounds like it might be nicely complementary. Anyway, my only point is
there is a lot of software out there, and it is useful to tell people
what makes yours different/ better/ etc., especially if you want to
enlist supporters/ testers/ users/ documentors/ etc.
For uploading, there are probably some free sites you can upload to, eg.
sourceforge.net, freshmeat.net, geocities (?), savannah.org, etc.
You can choose to make your software an official GNU project, or simply
package it for a GNU/Linux distribution such as the widely popular and
highly recommended Debian.
For packaging, you might be interested in the New Maintainers Guide,
found by scrolling down from this page:
http://www.debian.org/devel/
Alternatively you can simply hope that one day someone else will package
it.
Initially, the simplest route is to find some place to upload it (eg.
create a sourceforge site) and tell people about it - announce it to the
Debian.org, www.GNU.org and Slashdot.org websites.
On licensing:
GPL:
The minimum requirements imposed (on users of your library), to
guarantee maximum freedoms are maintained over the long term.
LGPL ("Lesser" GPL):
"Maintains" less freedom-preserving requirements than the GPL, by
allowing Proprietary applications to link with your library. This may be
a good thing to get more users, especially if your library is competing
with others out there. If your library is unique, you may not wish to
"give away your effort for nothing", and use the GPL instead (like the
company Trolltech does with their QT software - you can buy licenses to
QT if you want to release Proprietary software; that's how that company
makes money).
X/MIT:
Essentially public domain - people can take your code and relicense it
under Proprietary license. This is probably not what you want. Some
people say this is "more" freedom than the GPL provides, which is kind
of true. But history shows us that there is today an enormous body of
GPL software out there, so the GPL, for various reasons, has certainly
resulted in a lot of Free Software. Which for many of us is The Worthy
Goal (TM).
BTW, don't confuse Proprietary with Commercial with Free Software.
Proprietary and Free Software are opposites, Commercial and
Non-commercial are opposites and both Free and Proprietary software can
be either of Commercial, or Non-commercial. Eg., You can give away
Proprietary software gratis, and you can charge (a lot of money in fact)
for distribution and enhancement of Free Software.
cheers
zen
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 22:27, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Initially, the simplest route is to find some place to upload it (eg. > create a sourceforge site) and tell people about it - announce it to the > Debian.org, www.GNU.org and Slashdot.org websites. And be sure to clearly state the license that you use in your source files, to ensure that your licensing choice is clear so people can abide by it, before uploading your library. cheers zen
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
Actually Zen my goal from the begining was to package it for a GNU/Linux distribution specifically the widely popular and highly recommended Debian. I'll get on making the page at source forge also i'll make a more detailed comparison between octave and my library which i'm calling matlib. i'm comparing it with octave since ocatve seems to be doing the best (most hits for "linux matlab" in google) also thanks for explaining the licences finally i understand. actually i'm not interested in making money from the software. I'm just doing to proove that i can. so i guess i'll go with the GPL. i was just afraid that people would copy-paste the source. (again that happens alot where i'm from) power to the GPL penguin :) Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 01:50:50AM -0800, Halim Boukaram wrote: > > I dont want to work with Octave since it is interpreter based and the > whole point behind numerical analysis is super speed. > Old fashion programmer uh? :) Anyway, any C library can be potentially embedded in a scripting language like octave (as it's true for perl or python). So the integration with octave or scilab or anything else can be attained later. -- Francesco P. Lovergine
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Halim, If you want it to be widely usable, then I would also suggest packaging your software in .rpm format. I know a lot of people who work as sys-admins on Linux systems, and they feel much better when software is in .rpm, because that's what they know. > I'll get on making the page at source forge also i'll make a more > detailed comparison between octave and my library which i'm calling > matlib. Yes, and put on your page a very detailed description of what your software does, what platforms it runs on, and so on. It would also be a good idea to detail what tests you've run that indicate your software is better than what exists. I advise you to find a different name for your software. There are a couple of things out there that have the name "matlib", and it will create confusion with "matlab", a commercial product. Pick something that will stand out, like cheetamath. > afraid that people would copy-paste the source. (again that happens alot > where i'm from) Where _are_ you from, just out of curiosity? Good luck in what you're doing. Realize that what you're striving for (a math library that does everything, completely optimized) is the Holy Grail of scientific computing. Speaking as one who works in that area, when you do have a product ready to demo, there will be lots of people interested in what you have. Good luck! Sincerely, Craig Steffen - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] public key available at http://www.craigsteffen.net/GPG/ current goal: use a CueCat scanner to inventory my books career goal: be the first Vorlon Time Lord -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAI8Hl63RQ21/5HgURAkv8AJ9qnjFk7UOW1mwpjEnWgBM7nWxczACeJpQx X+5fh7MzNKwMJ/S4kEMTkOo= =ep0T -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 03:33, Craig P. Steffen wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Halim, > > If you want it to be widely usable, then I would also suggest packaging > your software in .rpm format. I know a lot of people who work as > sys-admins on Linux systems, and they feel much better when software is in > .rpm, because that's what they know. Don't RPM distros now have apt/ alien to install? (ie. so they can install .deb archives) ??? > > I'll get on making the page at source forge also i'll make a more > > detailed comparison between octave and my library which i'm calling > > matlib. > > Yes, and put on your page a very detailed description of what your > software does, what platforms it runs on, and so on. It would also be a > good idea to detail what tests you've run that indicate your software is > better than what exists. Ie., how bug-free it is :) cheers zen
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
See my comments below. On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 19:04, Halim Boukaram wrote: > I don't know enough to really know, but it sure sounds > impressive. > > Presumably you are aware of the various GNU projects for these > sorts of > libraries? > > If not, go hunting from www.gnu.org -> software or something > like that. > > If so, what does your library bring to the table that the > existing > libraries don't have? > > What license are you planning to use? > > If you are planning to use GPL or LGPL or MIT/X style license, > is there > room for cooperation/ integration with existing (namely GNU) > projects > that are similar? > > And a big welcome aboard to Debian, The Universal Operating > System (TM). > > cheers > zen > > -- > * Debian Enterprise: http://debian-enterprise.org/ > * Homepage: http://soulsound.net/ > * PGP Key: http://soulsound.net/zen.asc > * Please respect the confidentiality of this email as sensibly > warranted. > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > // > > Hi > > The closest thing to my own library is Octave. > > the main differences are: > > pluses for mine: > > 1) Octave only allows Ordinary differential equations of a > very simple form. My library can take any ode of any form > > 2) there is no support for general least-squares methods in > Octave mine done. > > 3) octave can only solve equations, differientail equations, > integrals, by one method. mine can solve them using many > different numerical methods. > > 4) octave han only handle continous integrals and fourier > transforms mine can also handle discrete. > > 5) octave seems to have many dependancies not included in > default libraries and programs mine is programmed from > scratch. > > negatives for mine: > > 1) no financial, image or audio stuff. > > 2) no statististical stuff(yet) > > > /// > > I'm fairly sure that my library is more powerful for > mathematical stuff and pure numerical solutions. > > as mentioned before my library has more than one way of > integrating or differentiating ex i have 6 seperate functions > for integrating which are computer simulations of known rules > such as trapizoidal, boole, simpson, simpson3/8, > trapizoidal-4,trapizoidal-8. > > > / If you want decent comments and feedback, you have to reply-all to the list, so that those who actually know about maths libraries can comment. I can't do this because I don't know about them. If you do reply-all, it is generally better to remove the address of the person you are replying to (unless they ask for that) so that they don't get two copies of your message (which is annoying). > how do i get the library evaluated? Sell it, or give demo copies away, or make it Free Software and set up a web page so that other people in the Free Software community will be interested in helping out/ supporting - but that will only happen if you use a Free Software license. > its all done with help file and working examples. > > If possible id like to keep it closed source. i dont want any > one ripping me off. Thats happened to me alot and is really > frustrating having someone else claim the glory for your work. > > is there such a thing as closed source under linux? if not > then i'll take the closest licence. You might try packaging for debian "non-free" archive, but there are plans to remove that from Debian. > PS: I could make head or tail of the GPL, LGPL MIT/X licences > that you pointed out and thats the third time that i've read > them in detail. That's probably because you don't have clear goals - what do you want to achieve - eg. fame and glory, money, resume kudos, etc ??? All of these can be achieved with Free Software, but yo
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
Ok so i want the library as Free and under the GPL License. I dont want to work with Octave since it is interpreter based and the whole point behind numerical analysis is super speed. If other people want to work on it with me thats fine but i have to say where numerical methods are concerned you have to be good at: 1) math 2) assembly 3) C 4) math Also the university i'm from sukz big time. The Computer Science and Enginnering students dont even know what linux is (go figure). They think that MS visual basic, MS visual .net etc are THE languages. The moral of the story is I have absolutely no faith in other programmers as i have never actaully met other programmers. 6000 students and only 2 people I know are good at programming and they are the only to people who know Linux( anyone see a pattern :)? ) Ok so with the library as Free and License as GPL (or MIT/X or LGPL I dont really care as I've completely given up on understanding the Licence philosophies) where do i goe from here? Somewhere on debian page there was something about uploading and testing. Also if any one can explain to me the licensing issues in 5 3-letter words or less I'll be happy. Hey I might be good at C, assembly, and math*2 but i really suck at legal gibberish. power to the penguin PS: Zen my library is perfect but if you want I'll try my best to add some bugs Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
> PS:
>
> Zen my library is perfect but if you want I'll try my best to
> add some bugs
Hey, your libary may well be perfect :)
More power to you, dude!
http://www.gnu.org/directory/ is the top level GNU software page,
and here is the GNU mathematics packages page:
http://www.gnu.org/directory/science/math/
And those pages don't even seem to list glpk - GNU Linear Programming
Kit (but searching from those pages for "glpk" finds it). Your stuff
sounds like it might be nicely complementary. Anyway, my only point is
there is a lot of software out there, and it is useful to tell people
what makes yours different/ better/ etc., especially if you want to
enlist supporters/ testers/ users/ documentors/ etc.
For uploading, there are probably some free sites you can upload to, eg.
sourceforge.net, freshmeat.net, geocities (?), savannah.org, etc.
You can choose to make your software an official GNU project, or simply
package it for a GNU/Linux distribution such as the widely popular and
highly recommended Debian.
For packaging, you might be interested in the New Maintainers Guide,
found by scrolling down from this page:
http://www.debian.org/devel/
Alternatively you can simply hope that one day someone else will package
it.
Initially, the simplest route is to find some place to upload it (eg.
create a sourceforge site) and tell people about it - announce it to the
Debian.org, www.GNU.org and Slashdot.org websites.
On licensing:
GPL:
The minimum requirements imposed (on users of your library), to
guarantee maximum freedoms are maintained over the long term.
LGPL ("Lesser" GPL):
"Maintains" less freedom-preserving requirements than the GPL, by
allowing Proprietary applications to link with your library. This may be
a good thing to get more users, especially if your library is competing
with others out there. If your library is unique, you may not wish to
"give away your effort for nothing", and use the GPL instead (like the
company Trolltech does with their QT software - you can buy licenses to
QT if you want to release Proprietary software; that's how that company
makes money).
X/MIT:
Essentially public domain - people can take your code and relicense it
under Proprietary license. This is probably not what you want. Some
people say this is "more" freedom than the GPL provides, which is kind
of true. But history shows us that there is today an enormous body of
GPL software out there, so the GPL, for various reasons, has certainly
resulted in a lot of Free Software. Which for many of us is The Worthy
Goal (TM).
BTW, don't confuse Proprietary with Commercial with Free Software.
Proprietary and Free Software are opposites, Commercial and
Non-commercial are opposites and both Free and Proprietary software can
be either of Commercial, or Non-commercial. Eg., You can give away
Proprietary software gratis, and you can charge (a lot of money in fact)
for distribution and enhancement of Free Software.
cheers
zen
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 22:27, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Initially, the simplest route is to find some place to upload it (eg. > create a sourceforge site) and tell people about it - announce it to the > Debian.org, www.GNU.org and Slashdot.org websites. And be sure to clearly state the license that you use in your source files, to ensure that your licensing choice is clear so people can abide by it, before uploading your library. cheers zen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
Actually Zen my goal from the begining was to package it for a GNU/Linux distribution specifically the widely popular and highly recommended Debian. I'll get on making the page at source forge also i'll make a more detailed comparison between octave and my library which i'm calling matlib. i'm comparing it with octave since ocatve seems to be doing the best (most hits for "linux matlab" in google) also thanks for explaining the licences finally i understand. actually i'm not interested in making money from the software. I'm just doing to proove that i can. so i guess i'll go with the GPL. i was just afraid that people would copy-paste the source. (again that happens alot where i'm from) power to the GPL penguin :) Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 01:50:50AM -0800, Halim Boukaram wrote: > > I dont want to work with Octave since it is interpreter based and the > whole point behind numerical analysis is super speed. > Old fashion programmer uh? :) Anyway, any C library can be potentially embedded in a scripting language like octave (as it's true for perl or python). So the integration with octave or scilab or anything else can be attained later. -- Francesco P. Lovergine -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Halim, If you want it to be widely usable, then I would also suggest packaging your software in .rpm format. I know a lot of people who work as sys-admins on Linux systems, and they feel much better when software is in .rpm, because that's what they know. > I'll get on making the page at source forge also i'll make a more > detailed comparison between octave and my library which i'm calling > matlib. Yes, and put on your page a very detailed description of what your software does, what platforms it runs on, and so on. It would also be a good idea to detail what tests you've run that indicate your software is better than what exists. I advise you to find a different name for your software. There are a couple of things out there that have the name "matlib", and it will create confusion with "matlab", a commercial product. Pick something that will stand out, like cheetamath. > afraid that people would copy-paste the source. (again that happens alot > where i'm from) Where _are_ you from, just out of curiosity? Good luck in what you're doing. Realize that what you're striving for (a math library that does everything, completely optimized) is the Holy Grail of scientific computing. Speaking as one who works in that area, when you do have a product ready to demo, there will be lots of people interested in what you have. Good luck! Sincerely, Craig Steffen - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] public key available at http://www.craigsteffen.net/GPG/ current goal: use a CueCat scanner to inventory my books career goal: be the first Vorlon Time Lord -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAI8Hl63RQ21/5HgURAkv8AJ9qnjFk7UOW1mwpjEnWgBM7nWxczACeJpQx X+5fh7MzNKwMJ/S4kEMTkOo= =ep0T -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C library for numerical analysis and math
On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 03:33, Craig P. Steffen wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Halim, > > If you want it to be widely usable, then I would also suggest packaging > your software in .rpm format. I know a lot of people who work as > sys-admins on Linux systems, and they feel much better when software is in > .rpm, because that's what they know. Don't RPM distros now have apt/ alien to install? (ie. so they can install .deb archives) ??? > > I'll get on making the page at source forge also i'll make a more > > detailed comparison between octave and my library which i'm calling > > matlib. > > Yes, and put on your page a very detailed description of what your > software does, what platforms it runs on, and so on. It would also be a > good idea to detail what tests you've run that indicate your software is > better than what exists. Ie., how bug-free it is :) cheers zen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
