Re: Size matters. Debian binary package stats
On Sun, Dec 18, 2005 at 12:34:56PM +0100, Gürkan Sengün wrote: > Hi > > I've run some scripts to find out the size of binary pakcages in debian > and how theycould be made smaller, here's the results: > > http://www.linuks.mine.nu/sizematters/ FWIW : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Dpkg7Zip Actual maintainer of dpkg is evaluating the possibility to use 7zip. Even if the decision of using 7zip by default is far from being taken, it looks likely that dpkg will at least start supporting it. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Freexian : des développeurs Debian au service des entreprises http://www.freexian.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Thoughts on Debian quality, including automated testing
For the record, I have been favorable to team maintenance for years. That's why the PTS begs for co-maintainers on packages of priority standard or higher. That's why I pushed to setup alioth.debian.org. On Wed, 21 Dec 2005, Thomas Hood wrote: > It turns out that there is no need for them to be hurt at all. Lone > can carry on working as before and find a co-maintainer who won't get > in his way. But when Lone falls off his horse he'll be glad that Tonto > is nearby. Unfortunately, this is simply not true for many small packages. None of my packages are maintained in a team. I tried several times to get help for libdbd-pg-perl and libdbd-mysql-perl but I never got any (except once). (Now, I should probably move them to pkg-perl on alioth but I haven't took the time to do that yet) That is to say: you can't require the actual maintainer to find co-maintainer by himself. I do agree that maintaining more packages in team is a good idea but you can't decide that it's the rule and be done. What you can do however, is to work in that direction (like I do). For example, you could have participated in the thread in debian-qa that I recently started about "Collaborative maintenance", and put your brightest ideas in the wiki : http://wiki.debian.org/CollaborativeMaintenance http://lists.debian.org/debian-qa/2005/12/msg00026.html Or more concretely, you can help the maintainers find people to help. I'm convinced that most maintainers of packages of priority standard or higher have absolutely nothing against team maintenance but they simply didn't took the time to organize this. So help them organize the transition ! Find co-maintainers, request an alioth project (or join an already existing team) and get done with it. Start again with another package... > In other words, this rule can have only positive effects. :) The Debian world has no "police" to force the application of any rule. Governing the Debian world requires common sense, communication skills and much time ! Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Thoughts on Debian quality, including automated testing
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005, Daniel Ruoso wrote: > Em Qua, 2005-12-21 às 14:34 +, Matthew Garrett escreveu: > > I think I've said this before, but I have no objections to anyone > > uploading any of my packages. I'd be even happier if anyone who did so > > was willing to enter into some sort of reciprocal agreement. > > So do I, but I would be really happy if the uploader knows how I > maintain the packages (I mean, using CVS, SVN or such) and cooperate > using such tools. This is legitimate. > Maybe it would be interesting to have some information in the package > saying how the package is managed and the preferrable way of doing an > NMU (I actually, think that it's desirable to self-include in the > Uploaders field, to acquire responsability also)... This is definitely required. If I had time, I would have drafted such a proposal for the Debian policy. In the PTS, I'd like to be able to point people to the CVS/SVN/arch repository used by the maintainers, however I can't because the information is not stored, or is stored in a non-formal manner in README.Debian. Example: VCS-Maint-Repository: svn://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-gnome/packages/unstable/gksu VCS-Maint-Repository: cvs://cvs.debian.org/debian-boot/debian-cd VCS-Maint-Repository: none We may also need to be able to specify multiple repositories: for example, if several branches are maintained in parallel (unstable/experimental), or maybe for derived distributions like Ubuntu which may want to list there, the URL of the "branch" that they're maintaining on top of the original Debian package. BTW, at the same time, it would be good to add more similar meta-data like "VCS-Upstream-Repository" or "Upstream-Website" which are definitely needed to make the PTS effective for QA workers which need to find out the upstream website/community to seek help, to check for potential patches, etc. Be my guest, and formalize such a proposal for debian-policy. :-) Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Thoughts on Debian quality, including automated testing
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, Daniel Ruoso wrote: > > In the PTS, I'd like to be able to point people to the CVS/SVN/arch > > repository used by the maintainers, however I can't because the > > information is not stored, or is stored in a non-formal manner in > > README.Debian. > > Hmmm... You probably pointed out the best way to achieve that... If you > look carefully, you'll see that the PTS uses informations that are > spreaded around several subsystems... I know that, I've written it ! :-) > So, the nicest way is to create yet another subsystem that would manage > this type of information, and once many people starts putting > information there, the PTS will include it also... Why should I create yet another unofficial thing while we already have proper infrastructure in place to distribute meta-data about our packages ? Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Canonical's business model
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Gustavo Franco wrote: > I see, i would like to see the utnubu patch list[0] integrated in PTS > (scott's already is[1]), with that everyone subscribed to the package The patch list from utnubu is the same than the one from Scott, so there's no point to add a pointer to the utnubu patch repository. The utnubu repository adds "diffstat" about the patch and a sort by maintainer. Since the PTS is package-oriented and not developer-oriented, it doesn't bring anything interesting. > could receive a mail after a patch shows up there. I'm sure that > Rafael or someone else said something about it, but not the entire > idea. Is it possible, Rafael? Everything is possible, please start hacking your own script which mails @packages.qa.debian.org ... we can integrate it in the PTS when you want after that. :-) http://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/pts Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Development standards for unstable
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Andreas Barth wrote: > One can try to come up with some metric, yes. > > However, on the other hand feel free to create a "common maintained > packages team" that adopts such packages :) This may happen sooner that one may think. The project "collab-maint" on alioth is actually empty but it will be used for that purpose ... possibly starting with packages created by Ubuntu's MOTU which are of generic interest for Debian too. http://wiki.debian.org/CollaborativeMaintenance This proposal has recently been discussed in the last Ubuntu MOTU meeting and hopefully something will come out of it. A+ -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Need for launchpad
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > Um, I have said nothing against crediting maintainers in the > packages. I have only said that I would like Ubuntu to clearly label > which is the Debian maintainer and which is the Ubuntu maintainer. There's no "Ubuntu maintainer" for a specific package... packages in Universe are sometimes uploaded by several different person. Packages in Ubuntu main usually have the same set of maintainer however. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about their packages in Ubuntu
Hello, On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Bill Allombert wrote: > On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 11:35:24PM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > I believe Ubuntu fills an important gap in the Debian world and as such > > Ubuntu is not part of the Debian world, That's simply wrong given the many people who use both and who cares about both. You're only one inside Debian and you can't generalize your personal opinion on the whole project. > If such gap exist, we should not abdicate our responsability to fill > it to others that do not adhere to our principles. Sorry, you missed my point. I do not direct our users/developers to another distribution, I call for better cooperation so that WE can fill the gap by taking part of their work. Furthermore we heard several times that some DD were unhappy about the version of their packages in Ubuntu which was integrated without their opinion and this mail is an opportunity for people like those who care to voice their opinion about their packages in Ubuntu. If you don't care about Ubuntu, just don't collaborate but please do not fight other Debian developers who are intested in working together with Ubuntu. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about their packages in Ubuntu
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Andrew Suffield wrote: > On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 10:27:31PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > > That's kind of a strange position to take, isn't it? Does this mean that > > the many users who use Debian directly sheerly on technical excellence > > alone, without sharing Debian's "founding values", are not part of the > > "Debian world"? For that matter, I don't know of any derivative Debian > > distributions that require their developers to agree to the social contract; > > so by that standard, are *any* of them part of the "Debian world"? > > Intuitively, I would not expect any standard to classify any of the > current derivatives as 'part of the Debian world'. We have very little > interaction with any of them. And that's a pity. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Need for launchpad
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, Hamish Moffatt wrote: > > There's no "Ubuntu maintainer" for a specific package... packages in > > Universe are sometimes uploaded by several different person. [...] > > OK, but is listing the Debian maintainer as the only contact person > appropriate? > > I've seem some forks of my packages in universe that I don't want > responsibility for, thanks. Maybe we need to provide Ubuntu a list of maintainer who don't want their name listed in the Ubuntu packages ... I don't see another solution to satisfy everyone. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Development standards for unstable
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Thomas Viehmann wrote: > How do you know? The BTS. > > Most of the orphaned packages are orphaned because they're obscure and the > > person who cared about the package has left the project or run out of > > time. However, they are probably still working fine for people with those > > obscure needs, and as such there isn't an obvious significant gain for > > Debian by getting rid of them. > > I think that not shipping unmaintained and unsupported packages is a > benefit. Packages need a maintainer to enter, I think they should need > one to stay. You wouldn't say that if you were a user using an orphaned package ... I'm sorry, there's no "global answer" to orphaned packages. Sometimes they are obsolete and should be dropped. Sometimes they're not and we should try to find maintainers for them. If we can't find maintainers inside Debian, we should look in the upstream community around the software and use adequate infrastructure : http://wiki.debian.org/CollaborativeMaintenance Of course, it's easier to say than to do and I have only 24 hours per day. :-) Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about their packages in Ubuntu
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Andrew Suffield wrote: > > That's simply wrong given the many people who use both and who cares about > > both. > > By this reasoning, Windows is 'part of the Debian world'. I hope you > didn't expect anybody to take it seriously. Ok, not well worded, let me rephrase it. It's wrong given the many exchanges that we have between the two communities. If the Ubuntu/Debian community didn't overlap so much (and if we were in two different world), we certainly wouldn't have so many discussions about Ubuntu. (and no I don't plan to respond to the rest of your troll) Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Need for launchpad
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, Kevin Mark wrote: > > There's no "Ubuntu maintainer" for a specific package... packages in > > Universe are sometimes uploaded by several different person. > > Hi Rapael, > So WHO exactly would you expect Ubuntu folks to think to email with > requests? The result by experience is Debian maintainers who for various > reasons don't wan't/expect/are confused by this. Maybe create an > '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' for the Maintainer: and > have a similar mailing list for bugs and then have any Ubuntu person > monitor and help on that list? Hi, Packages from Universe are maintained by the MOTU and they have a mailing list: ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com If the decision to override the Maintainer field is taken, it should probably be replaced with that list. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Need for launchpad
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, Joey Hess wrote: > Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > This is only the latest expression of the same general discontent which has > > been rehashed again and again on this list. A year ago it was "Ubuntu > > aren't contributing", then "Ubuntu aren't contributing in the right way", > > and now "Ubuntu aren't contributing in the way that they say that they are". > > Ubuntu hasn't significantly changed its practices; it is only the > > accusation which has changed over time. > > Hmm, it seems to me that Ubuntu has recently changed its practices > regarding what degree of divergence from Debian is appropriate, notably > in the introduction of the MOTU group. But this evolves constantly... for me it looks like it's evolving again in the other direction as the MOTU discover how difficult it is to maintain so many diverged packages. Of course, not every MOTU share that opinion but I see a growing number who are concerned by this. Nobody is perfect. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about their packages in Ubuntu
Hello Joey, On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, Joey Hess wrote: > Leaving ubuntu out of this, what puzzles me about your message, Raphael, > is this: > > Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > If you have some uploads pending, and would like to see those packages > > included [...] > > > If for whatever reason you don't want to upload the new package to Debian > > directly [...] > > This seems to assume that > > a) There might be a lot of Debian developers who have some upload ready >to go but are sitting on them for some reason. Not really... it happens quite often that I plan on working on a new upstream version (or whatever) but for various reasons, I do not prioritze it much because I know I will do it in time for etch... however I may be interested to have that better version in Ubuntu as well instead of the actual version (which may be too buggy in my opinion). If I don't know about the Ubuntu freeze, I may miss the opportunity to work on it in time... > b) There might be a lot of Debian developers who are more interested in >contributing to other distributions rather than Debian, or who don't >know how to upload to experimental or something. I can only imagine that it may be interesting in some particular cases, for example when Ubuntu has already done a transition that Debian hasn't and where we know that the packages in Ubuntu and in Debian can't be the same. > What I don't understand is why you'd think that either group is large > enough to warrant a post to d-d-a. Do Debian developers habitually delay > uploading packages that are ready to go? Is there some reason why Debian > developers who are no longer interested in contributing to Debian > shouldn't be shown the door? I hope I have better explained why I thought it was relevant. BTW, I'll take the opportunity of your mail (which is the only public response which is actually constructive) to give some facts and conclusion about this announce : - I received 2 private emails saying that this should have gone to -devel - I received 3 private emails thanking me for the announce and the effort I do to favor the cooperation between Ubuntu and Debian - of course, there have been lots of discussion on IRC and on the list - there's the stupid mail to d-d-a from Andrew Suffield (which should be tought how to reply by private email to simply tell me that this should have gone to -devel (like others have done)) I won't reuse d-d-a for this purpose and I'll ask Lucas Nussbaum (who asked me to forward this announce) to publish those himself directly on -devel in the future (he has been subscribed for a long time). Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about their packages in Ubuntu
On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 04:58:40PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > >> Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > I'm quickly losing interest in discussing this with you at all, to be > >> > honest. > >> > >> Then, um, don't. Doesn't affect me either way. > > > > Thomas, if you don't care about a topic please don't waste all of our time > > while you browbeat your opposition (and in this case, fellow Debian > > developer) in to the ground. Some of us who do care might want to see > > something positive come out of this long and painful thread. > > I do care about the topic. I do not care about Matt's ego. I'm in line with David. Thomas, if you care about the topic, you must be interested in convincing the one who can make a change on Ubuntu's policy. And the person in question is Matt. If you scare your only interlocutor with Ubuntu, then you can be sure that you won't get what you want. And what's interesting is the actual result, not the discussion itself ! (Or reworded: avoid flames if you want a positive outcome, otherwise it would look like you're only interesed in the confrontation) Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about their packages in Ubuntu
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Christian Perrier wrote: > > > It is the great danger of this thread that Matt et al. will feel > > sufficiently put upon that they *don't* take to heart the legitimate > > suggestions that could improve cooperation between Debian and Ubuntu (and > > "distinguishing version numbers for binaries" being by far the least of > > these). "If you're not cooperating with me the way I want, I'll make you > > regret it" doesn't benefit *anyone* involved. Indeed, it just makes it > > easier to conclude that Debian is no longer worth the effort of trying to > > give back to. > > Seconded. Seconded too. > I am amazed by the involvment made by Matt and a few other Ubuntu > people in this thread. And I actually fear they could give up and lose > what I personnally consider as good will. Mee too as well. The only solution that I know is to discuss the matter in a "smaller group" (like within Utnubu) and present the decision later to the larger group ... because people who join smaller group have a real common interest while people flaming here are only eager to impose their opinion on the project (since d-d is in theory the main discussion list of the developers). Cheers, PS: Yes it's about time that we limit the number of email that a single person can post on this list. Or impose a greater delay each time a new mail comes. Or whatever, but we need to try something to avoid problems like we had in the recent threads. -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Collaborative maintenance, time to work
[Same crosspost than last time + debian-devel, but reply-to set to a new list] Hello everybody, following the previous mail on the subject, I revised a bit the proposal and started to write down the design of the infrastructure. I also created a mailing list where everybody interested to help should subscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/collab-maint-devel Please join and we'll continue the discussion over there (reply-to is set). Here are the wiki pages of the project : http://wiki.debian.org/CollaborativeMaintenance http://wiki.debian.org/CollaborativeMaintenance/Design I've started to write some code. There's not much but I have a module which is able to access a (local) subversion repository and extract the list of packages managed in the repository as well as the associated meta-information (version, distribution, urgency for now). We should aim to quickly create a web interface for this. I don't know yet how this interface should be made. I'm tempted to try Turbogears for this project but I'd welcome your suggestions. Cheers, Raphaël. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
More polls and social pressure
[ Reply-to debian-project ] Hi everybody, given the size of the project, it's very difficult for any of us to evaluate the popularity of random ideas/opinions in a short time frame. Jeroen (jvw) recently conducted two informal polls (vi-tiny vs elvis, and maintainer field for ubuntu) and I liked those. My idea would be to officialize a "weekly consultation" of the developers. Devotee (the voting software) may need to be modified to allow for several votes in a single mail. Each week a mail to d-d-a would contain the results of the vote of the previous week together with the new set of polls for the current week. Those polls are not fully crafted GR so they are not as binding as a GR could be but they should give up a pretty good overview of the current opinion inside the project (if each poll has been well prepared by its proponent). The possible uses are very broad: for example, I'd tempted to start a serie of GRs to officialize by the project at large some decisions which have been implicitely taken. However I don't want to start that if a majority of developers think that this is useless, so I'd like to have the opinion of the project and I'd like to submit a poll. Any DD should be able to submit such a poll to the project. That's so far the "normal usage" of the polls. But I may have found a new interesting application: In the light of recent events, those polls could be used to give a physical reality to the social peer pressure that should exist on our mailing lists (and maybe avoid going straight to extreme solutions): --- [] XXX behaviour in thread YY is inacceptable [] XXX behaviour in thread YY is borderline [] XXX behaviour in thread YY is OK [] I have no opinion, I didn't check --- [] XXX posts way too much and he repeats his argument over & over [] XXX should answer less frequently but with more elaborate mails [] XXX posts many mails, but they are interesting [] I have no opinion, I didn't check --- The result of the polls could eventually be used by the listmasters to take action if needed. This is a civilized way to define what *must change* and what is ok. If you believe someone is misconducting on the lists, or is hurting the project by his behaviour, just submit a poll and in the light of the results, both sides will know what the project thinks (if enough people take the time to vote of course). The current limitation is that we probably ought to open the votes to a larger group than the DD but we might start with DD only and check out the results. So coments are welcome. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: On binary compatibility
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Michael Gilbert wrote: > First of all, I think it is useful to analyze Ubuntu's motivation -- > releasing well-integrated bleeding-edge software. The easiest way to > accomplish this goal is by branching from sid. This means that Ubuntu > libraries differ from the stable Debian release. Hence, Debian stable > (and sid/testing) packages are incompatible with the Ubuntu libraries; Most packages from sid and Ubuntu are compatible. > thus creating the need for duplicate packaging work by both the Ubuntu > and Debian communities. And in several cases, the work done by Ubuntu is reused by Debian and vice-versa. There's some duplicate work done but the idea is to reduce it and not to augment it (see reasoning below). > The solution would be to convince Ubuntu to branch from stable instead > of sid. The problem is that this creates a lot of work for Ubuntu Understand that Ubuntu is doing work on packages based on our sid packages. This means that the changes they do can (sometimes) be applied back to our sid packages where we *do* our work. In this way Ubuntu helps Debian. Their work would be almost useless if they did it on our stable version, since stable doesn't evolve in Debian. > undertaking. Maybe a solution would be to force the sid GNOME release > (and hence the upstream GNOME) to use the Debian stable GTK. This can't work. While we can discuss with upstream, we can't force anything. And any upstream has tons of good reasons to use newer libs... that's how we improve free software ! > Obviously this would have some major political issues. How can we Indeed. > backport support for newer hardware, which may involve backporting > newer kernels or backporting support for newer hardware into the > stable kernel. Which also means updating lots of utilities (udev, anyone?) and in fact your "stable" wouldn't be stable any more ... > One final open-ended question is: which consumes more resources? > Duplicate packaging or backporting? Backporting is a packaging work ... a special kind of it but backporting is not always straightforward and can't always be done without upgrading other softwares. So the answer is "it depends". In the end, I doubt that your proposal could work. You said in turn "it means more work for Ubuntu, it means more work for Debian and it requires to force upstream to use older libs". That's simply not possible. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Debian Backup Server
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006, Frank Küster wrote: > >> Are there any plans to add svn.debian.org / alioth to this set? > > > > No. > > > > Alioth will have its own backup facility. > > But svn.debian.org is costa.debian.org, just that the access controls > work via alioth. > > Anyway, do you know who's caring about backing up alioth, or about the > state of its backuping? It's a bit weird when I learn such things by reading debian-devel while I'm supposed to be one of the Alioth administrators. I *imagine* that it might be related to the new machine that we have received for several months and that wiggy (Wichert Akkerman) is currently preparing (but he looks like busy with many other things :-(). The new machine is *very* amazing (we're speaking in terabytes for disk for example). Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A new arch support proposal, hopefully consensual (?)
Le dimanche 20 mars 2005 à 12:45 +0100, Sven Luther a écrit : > Hello, Hi Sven, > This is an attempt to do a vancouver-counter proposal in such a way that would > be acceptable to all, including the folk who was at the vancouver meeting. > Please be resonable when we post here, refrain from agressive behavior, and > provide argumentation to your proposed solutions. Your proposal makes sense of course, and I'm sure it will be well accepted... furthermore I think that this was the intent behind the Vancouver proposal even if it wasn't worded very well. Debian as a whole shouldn't suffer from minority arches. So we decide to refuse most of the constraints imposed by the minority arches... this way the release team shouldn't pester porter until they setup an rbuilder for security uploads or a supplementary buildd. Instead they just say : if you want to release together with tier1 arches, you have to meet those criteria at that date. I believe everyone is supportive of the various ports, nobody has any interest in making a port fail... but it's clear that many maintainers are frustrated to be blocked because their package doesn't build on an arch they don't care about. So your proposal conciles everybody and I hope it will be mostly ok for everybody. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW handling: About rejects, and kernels (Was: Re: NEW handling ...)
Le mardi 22 mars 2005 à 17:46 +0100, Bernhard R. Link a écrit : > * Matthew Wilcox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [050322 16:51]: > > Debian has already decided to destroy what it is by giving in to the > > crackpots who insist that everything is software. > > You mean some people failed to destroy Debian though loudly and very > often repeating the claim that some types of software do not count as > software? Why should people always be so counterproductive ? I'm also not satisfied with the non-productiveness of the removal of useful documentation. I'm also ashamed that some hardware doesn't work out of the box on Debian because we decided that firmware are software and thus should meet DFSG. However I don't plan to leave Debian because it's just not the right thing to do. I joined Debian because its goal was to satisfy its users... and sadly it turns that some developers forget about that when prefering freeness over the service to our users. We need to have a big political shift on that side, or we'll loose more valuable contributors in favor of other distributions... you may not care but I want Debian to stay the central distribution and I don't want that other distributions do a better service to users than us. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: If Debian's too radical for you... [was: NEW handling: About rejects, and kernels]
Le jeudi 24 mars 2005 à 11:13 +1100, Matthew Palmer a écrit : > "Some would say that this has already happened". Not a fork, per se, > but Ubuntu's licencing policy (and the general level-headedness of the > people I know who are deeply involved in it) suggests that it may be > the refuge you seek. It's not the right answer. When I joined Debian, we were not considered as fanatic. In facts, we were much more pragmatic... Debian was separated from the FSF because it decided to stay pragmatic and refused to remove non-free just for the intellectual satisfaction of the fanatics. Nowadays, we're going backwards and it's not good. I don't want to leave Debian, I want Debian to stay like it has always been. So I prefer to fight the fanatics inside Debian instead of leaving. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proper use of Replaces
Le samedi 28 mai 2005 à 08:35 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez a écrit : > Good. That is what I wanted to do, but I wasn't sure how it would go > over. Second question, how do handle the version numbering? Increment > only the Debian part of the version and include the GTK2 patch as a > Debian patch? Patch the original source and sort of make my own "new > upstream release" and increment that main version number? I wouldn't touch the upstream version unless you're really taking over upstream maintenance... is your upstream dead ? Including the patch in the debian diff is quite common nowadays. You can always use a build system that applies patches at build time rather than patching by hand before generating the .deb ... those system let you quickly add/remove patches. You can check for example how I did it in libdbdpg-perl (I borrowed it from someone else). > Also, should I plan this bing uploaded to unstable or experimental? It depends... I'd wait a few fays until sarge is released and then upload it to unstable. (Uploading right now probably wouldn't hurt since it's not a library but ... if you discover a RC bug for sarge, then you're forced to use t-p-u) Regards, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ongoing Firefox (and Thunderbird) Trademark problems
Le mardi 14 juin 2005 à 14:50 -0400, Eric Dorland a écrit : > Certainly retaining the name makes life easier. But the easier thing > and the right thing are often in conflict. I've clearly been very > reluctant to take the renaming step, because I know it will cause a > lot of acrimony. But just because it's a painful step doesn't > necessarily make it the wrong one. Sorry I don't get your point. I agree with Anthony and I share the point of view of Matthew. Rebranding mozilla-firefox is a wrong choice, both in the short term and in the long term. If you think that you can't maintain firefox with this trademark problem, then let someone else maintain it. But *please* do not impose a rebranding of the software because you think it's the right thing to do. I think we have had enough people in this tread who are in favor of keeping the name just like we do with other software in similar situations. But again the people against are the ones who are the more active... :-| > I think keeping the name does hurt Debian. No, it doesn't. I don't want to repeat all the points already made by Matthew, Anthony and the others. Consider this a "me too" for their mails. Regards, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ongoing Firefox (and Thunderbird) Trademark problems
Le mercredi 15 juin 2005 à 02:10 -0400, Eric Dorland a écrit : > > In the firefox case, people say "You have all the rights of the > > license; > > and as long as it's in Debian or it's not modified, you may call it > > firefox". > > Exactly. How is that permissible under DFSG #8. The logic behind the point 8 of the DFSG is that the "Debian specific part of the license" should not transform a non-DFSG-free program into a DFSG-free program. Because a DFSG-free program for Debian only makes no sense. Consider Firefox without the trademark license, it's DFSG-free. You add a trademark license forbiding to call the program "firefox" if a change was made, it's still DFSG-free (according to point #4 of DFSG). So Firefox is and has always been free for Debian ! Now you extend that trademark license to say that Debian can make modifications and still call it firefox. That's not worse than before because any people taking firefox from Debian would still have a program complying with DFSG... i.e. they have all the freedoms that Debian guarantees to offer to its users. Regards, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ongoing Firefox (and Thunderbird) Trademark problems
Le mardi 14 juin 2005 à 14:42 +0200, Jonas Meurer a écrit : > > i think it should. i second the idea that debian should provide > sources > to the community which are entirely free. sources which contain the > Mozilla trademarks and ignore their license are not entirely free. Debian defines "freedom" with the DFSG. Firefox sources complies with the DFSG. So firefox is free software !! End of discussion. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ongoing Firefox (and Thunderbird) Trademark problems
Le mercredi 15 juin 2005 à 12:50 -0400, Eric Dorland a écrit : > > I don't think it's arcane. It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, > > which Debian itself has done in the past (TrustedDebian -> Adamantix) > > > > You're free to make /any/ modifications to firefox, as long as you > > either rename it to something else or get permission to call it firefox. > > Doesn't sound non-free to me. > > Please explain to me why it's alright to get special permission to use > a trademark but not ok for a software license? Because our goal is to provide the best operating system with free software and because that special permission on the trademark changes nothing to that. In all cases we provide a software that is DFSG-free to our users. And we don't need more to be happy. :-) Cf my previous mail : http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/06/msg01430.html Point #8 of DFSG was meant to avoid people creating license like this "You cannot redistribute the software except as a part of the Debian distribution" where the license is clearly not DFSG-free for entities outside of Debian and where the exception would make the software DFSG-free within Debian only. Your interpretation of the point #8 of DFSG is way too strict compared to the original pupose of that point. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ongoing Firefox (and Thunderbird) Trademark problems
Le jeudi 16 juin 2005 à 01:03 -0400, Eric Dorland a écrit : > > The Mozilla Foundation have made many shows of good faith via Gervase in > > this long running debate which he has continued to follow despite the > > criticisms levelled at him/the Mozilla Foundation. Obviously if they > > turn around in the future and say "oh we hate your blah patch you can't > > use the name" then we can /then/ make it a big issue and change the name > > to iceweasel and be happy. I honestly think this is unlikely though and > > to do so now would be not only be premature but be harmful to users and > > your/the project's relationship with Mozilla. > > Well actually to some degree they've already done this. Recently the > CAcert (www.cacert.org) project's root CA made it into our > ca-certificates package. However I can't have Firefox use that as a > root CA by default and still use the trademark: > > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.security.cacert/2752 > > This seems like a pretty unacceptable to me. Given the trademark license, you can just add the CA-Cert and wait until MoFo complains to you... if they decide to complain ! Another approach (which would be more respectful to MoFo) would be to ask them to add the CA certificate into upstream's list of trusted CA so that the whole issue becomes a non-issue for us. We're all reasonable people, if we add that CA cert it's because we trust them. Given our track of security consciousness I see no reason why MoFo wouldn't trust what we trust (that's even the reason why they made an exceptin). Third approach is to ask again for an exception concerning this change. Choose whatever you prefer. In any case it doesn't change anything to the status of the software ... Firefox with its original name is free software and should be included as-is within Debian. Furthermore I'm sure that you can avoid that problem by using a debconf question: "Do you want to add the CA certs contained in CA-certificates in the list of CA trusted by Firefox ?" We don't change the list of CA certs but we're letting the user change it on his own machine. And I suppose that this has always been possible... (it was just more difficult for the user) Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: packages.d.o mail (Re: Greylisting for @debian.org email, please)
Le jeudi 23 juin 2005 à 19:33 +0200, Andreas Barth a écrit : > * Marco d'Itri ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050623 19:31]: > > On Jun 23, Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > There are plans to merge @packages.d.o and @packages.QA.d.o, so that > > > both reach the maintainer and the PTS subscribers. The QA address > > > requires the presence of an X-PTS-Approved header to let a message > > > reach @p.q.d.o, but I never asked Frank what his plans about > > > this wrt the merge were. > > > This is evil, I just verified that packages.qa.debian.org generates > > backscatter. > > You mean, this mails should rather be checked during SMTP time? Agreed. Patches accepted. The PTS source is in CVS (cvs.debian.org:/cvs/qa/pts) and you can see the installation at master.debian.org:/org/packages.qa.debian.org/ In the mean time, the only spam that PTS users receives is the spam sent to the BTS ... so it's better than nothing. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Documentation of alioth?
Le lundi 11 juillet 2005 à 09:17 +0200, Marc Haber a écrit : > Mailing list moderation is broken for like three months. There is an - > unreplied - tracker ticket (#301440) open, people have been prodded on > IRC multiple times, and all I got - after two weeks of trying to get > this issue at least acknowledged - was a "yeah, there is an > incompatbility between gforge and mailman". > > Same goes for tracker ticket #301374 - open since three months, not a > bit of reply. I never said we were perfect. But alioth is not "unmaintained". Gforge has its bugs, you're more than welcomon to work on it... > I do not care too much about alioth's internal problems. Fact is that > important parts of alioth infrastructure are broken since multiple > months, users are ignored, and nobody seems to care. This makes _my_ > work as a DD significantly harder since I have to look after my > mailing lists manually since a quarter of a year. Did you try to check where the problem is ? Did you try to prepare a patch for us to apply ? Regards, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Documentation of alioth?
Le lundi 11 juillet 2005 à 17:57 +0200, Eduard Bloch a écrit : > > Did you try to check where the problem is ? Did you try to prepare a > > patch for us to apply ? > > It's not my beer, but... did you ask for one? Did you ask for help at > all (since there seem to be real problems, my last request for an > obvious feature has been some months in the queue before beeing > processed). No we didn't. But that's common when you are group of volunteers sharing the work. The fact that I didn't had much time/interest is mostly unrelated to the fact that the other admins were in the same situation... so it takes time to just realize that there's a problem. Alioth's problems are not dramatic, but the list of tickets is growing and help would certainly be appreciated to sort them out. https://alioth.debian.org/tracker/?atid=21&group_id=1&func=browse A first step in that direction would be to have a public SVN with alioth's gforge ... I'll try to pester Lo-Lan-Do (Roland Mas) in doing that. :-) Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools
On Wed, 02 Aug 2006, David Nusinow wrote: > On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:56:44PM +0200, Adeodato Simó wrote: > > * David Nusinow [Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:37:23 +]: > > > > > (I'm seriously > > > interested in setting up git.debian.org for XSF work, for example*), > > > > > * If anyone else is interested in this, contact me and we'll talk > > > > There is _something_ in costa:/srv/git.debian.org/git already. > > Interesting... any idea if the git server is working? Also, if its > permissions are hooked in the rest of alioth like svn? If so, I'll be a > very happy boy. I've installed git-core (IIRC) on request of maks. AFAICT, it's enough to use git rsync method apparently. And yes permissions on costa are always hooked to alioth. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: package ownership in Debian
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> >Another, perhaps more parseable format, would be:
> >
> > X-VCS-Url: ${VCS}:${URL}
> > X-Vcs-Url: bzr:http://people.debian.org/~adeodato/code/packages/taglib
> >
> >Though you'd had to wonder what you'd do with a svn:// url.
> >
>
> Looks good, but i think we could write a proposal for new headers to
> address 'vcs' and 'homepage' needs, or add it somewhere else and sync
> (like we do with Tags). Thoughts?
My plan has always been to add this to a new (collaborative) database:
http://wiki.debian.org/CRMI
Why not in the control file? Because some maintainers don't want and it's
very important to have consistency across all packages so we must have the
possibility to add that information for packages where the maintainer is
not interested in providing it himself.
(But it's still vapourware at this stage.)
Cheers,
--
Raphaël Hertzog
Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/
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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Russ Allbery wrote: > We really need to put our heads together and come up with a good system > for managing pre-built kernel modules for the kernels in Debian. It's a > much more widespread problem than just a question of free vs. non-free. > It's possible to do right now, but it involves a ton of manual work by the > maintainer every time the list of officially supported kernels changes, > and pretty much every upload goes through NEW. I think that to have a > really good solution, we're going to need a larger plan that includes > changes to the archive management software as well. > > I'd love to see this be a priority for etch+1. There's already work being done in that direction, please check out with the kernel team. AFAIK there's a "linux-modules-extra-" source package created to auto-build all those modules. And it's also something that I would love to see completed sooner rather than later. I've hoping for something like that for years. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problem sending to Alioth lists?
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: > accessible mail server. The point is that I only experience this > problem with Alioth and SourceForge lists, where they use braindead call > back mechanism to try and reach the host that originated the message. I'm an Alioth administrator. If you expect help from us, you'd better not say that our configuration is "braindead". This is the most basic thing that we can do to avoid spam. > Since I am using mutt and I simply have postfix set to use a smarthost, > which does have a publicly accesible postfix running. Other solution to fix your problem with postfix (instead of mutt) is to configure address rewriting (/etc/postfix/main.cf): # ADDRESS REWRITING # # The ADDRESS_REWRITING_README document gives information about # address masquerading or other forms of address rewriting including # username->Firstname.Lastname mapping. sender_canonical_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/canonical And then put this in /etc/postfix/canonical: And then generate the corresponding DB: sudo postmap /etc/postfix/canonical Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, Adeodato Simó wrote: > * Brian May [Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:22:55 +1000]: > > > Adeodate> Also, do you remember having root > > Adeodato> bzr as root? > > > Huh? > > Sorry, that should have read: "do you remember having *run* bzr as root". > It's the most likely cause for those .pyc files to be there, since > bzrtools did not. What helper tool did you to use to byte-compules modules before python-support? (dh_python v1, python-central, nothing) Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problem sending to Alioth lists?
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: > On the other hand, I already tried to discuss that problem with you > guys (alioth admin team) in May 2006; nothing really came out of > it. Wichert questioned that it was a problem at all, I (tried to) > explain why it was a problem, nothing further happened. > > More testing suggests that costa is behind a firewall that _very_ > severely curtails ICMP; I cannot ping any host from costa (although I > can reach them alright over TCP). The fact that costa does not > ICMP-reply "port unreachable" (or TCP-reset) on rfc1413 TCP > connections creates delays that make your sender callback fail for no > good reason when dealing with hosts that do rfc1413 callbacks with a > timeout bigger than your callback timeout. First of all, at that time I had no contacts with the local admin, only Wichert had them. Second, very few people have ident check in their SMTP configuration, so it's not like your configuration is very common. Anyway, I sent a mail to the local admin to know if we could loosen the firewalling rules concerning ICMP. Feel free to ask for news in a few days. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 07:17:47PM -0700, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 08:48:00PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: > > > > > Debian needs to make a decision on how it will deal with this legal > > > minefield. That is higher priority than the entire discussion going on > > > right now, because it determines whether Debian will distribute these 53 > > > BLOBs *at all*, in 'main' or in 'non-free'. > > > > > Oddly enough nobody has proposed a GR addressing this, > > > > Because voting is an absurd means of settling questions of legal liability. > > It's the domain of the ftp team to determine whether we can legally > > distribute a package on our mirrors. > > So, all in all, all this fuss for seven blobs ? waw, what a waste of > time. 53 + 7 = 60. Please Mike, you have lately a tendency to inflame discussions for nothing. You've used me to expect better from you. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: claiming bugs, BTS delay, planning BSPs
On Sat, 02 Sep 2006, martin f krafft wrote: > Hi all, > > we're in the middle of the BSPMarathon[0]. Among the things new this > year (as opposed to the sarge BSPs) are usertags for claiming bugs > [1]. Unfortunately, the BTS is known to lag a bit these days, and it > won't get better during a BSP, so I wonder how to best handle this. Hi Martin, the best would be to use a dedicated tracker... it might be the time to try to use the result of Arnaud's summer of code: the "Distribution wide tracker tool", codenamed "Working together made easy". :-) http://netu.naquadah.org:8080/ It has the possibility for users to "lock" a package for a few hours and the result will be immediately visible to others. (You need to register to be able to lock a package and leave comment and so on) The main problem is keeping the tracker in sync with the official list of RC bugs since it evolves each day. Arnaud, can you work out a script for that ? Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Install packages automatically based on the detected hardware
On Fri, 01 Sep 2006, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: > Would you like to have gtkpod installed automatically if an ipod is in > the machine? Or 915resolution if your video card is supported by it? > Or perhaps mpt-status if your RAID controller uses the mptscshih > kernel module? Until yesterday, this was not possible in Debian. Now > it is. Yay! That's a great feature. Thank you for coding it. > But for this to be useful, a database of hardware->package mappings > need to be updated. At the moment a few entries are listed in the > discover-data package, but I am sure more of them. If you know some > debian packages that is useful or required to use a specific piece of > hardware, please report a wishlist bug against discover-data > specifying the hardware id (PCI, USB, SBus, etc.) and the package > name. I am mostly interested in packages in main, but also packages > in contrib and non-free are interesting. Ideally, we should rely on our users to send us suggestions here. But for that we need to write down a wiki explaining how to get the required information (lsusb, lspci, etc.). Of course, this need to advertised to a wider audience than -devel. -devel-announce seems a good option. > I hope to have this feature integrated into debian-installer before > etch, so useful hardware related packages can be installed > automatically on request. I look forward to that! Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: claiming bugs, BTS delay, planning BSPs
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006, Pierre Habouzit wrote: > > the best would be to use a dedicated tracker... it might be the time > > to try to use the result of Arnaud's summer of code: the > > "Distribution wide tracker tool", codenamed "Working together made > > easy". :-) > > > > http://netu.naquadah.org:8080/ > > seems nice, but very slow, not considerably faster than the BTS e.g. > > http://netu.naquadah.org:8080/tracker/python24 takes 15.576s to be > generated, the same page on the bts is twice as fast to show up. I think that coordinating a BSP with a delay of only 15 seconds is good enough ;-) What madduck was refering to, was more that the time between when you send the mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to usertag a bug and the time when people wil notice on the corresponding BTS web page, is in the amount of ~15 minutes (between two [EMAIL PROTECTED] run). (And like Arnaud told, he has been working on improving performances which mainly required to replace sqlite by postgresql) Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new passwd
Hi, On Thu, 07 Sep 2006, Atsuhito Kohda wrote: > Hi all, > > yesterday, I failed to login svn.debian.org with ssh. > I was asked Passwd and input the correct passwd (as far > as I remembered) three times but failed. > > I was given my first passwd in 2001/01 and it was changed > in 2003/12/16 (perhaps because of compromise of Debian servers). svn.debian.org account database is separate from the usual Debian developers account. It is hooked into Alioth's account database. http://wiki.debian.org/Alioth http://wiki.debian.org/AliothFAQ Thus the password is different, if you never used svn.d.o before, you'll need to ask for a new password. The link is in one the above mentionned pages. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new passwd
On Thu, 07 Sep 2006, Atsuhito Kohda wrote: > > So I tried to get a new passwd > > following the instruction of http://db.debian.org/password.html > > at about 12am JST (3am UTC) but I've gotten nothing yet (after > > one day already). > > Does the procedure > > echo "Please change my Debian password" | gpg --clearsign \ > | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > work yet? I get nothing even now. Are you sure that the GPG key is still in the Debian keyring? And on the web page you mentionned, it's written that you should contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] in case of problem... Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Request to mailing list Pkg-qof-maintainers rejected
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: > Unfortunately, I haven't seen much support for my position yet - most > responses are in the line of "if you don't want to be flamed, don't set > the mailinglist to moderated". I remain at "flaming your fellows never > helps the project, making requests and doing suggestions does". You have support, I agree that Ganneff has been to harsh, it's just that meta-discussions like this one also do not help much. A private reply to Ganneff would have showed you that it was not particularly against you, but he has seen that mistake several times already and decided to rant a bit publicly in the hope to reduce the frequence of such incidents. (At least I think so, Ganneff feel free to confirm :-)) > I agree with you here, but I aspire a mailing list environment where one > could start reading right away without having to build up a database of > swearing posters first. Indeed. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Request to mailing list Pkg-qof-maintainers rejected
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006, Frans Pop wrote: > On Tuesday 12 September 2006 02:11, Charles Plessy wrote: > > It is really unfortunate that the regulation of moderation is hidden > > under a "privacy" menu in Mailman. Maybe the most straightforward mean > > to slove this in the future would be to make the new lists unmoderated > > by default? > > Or ask the alioth admins to set up defaults that allow at least BTS and > PTS and maybe some other categories of mails? I'm not mailman expert and I don't know how to do that. However I'll happily apply a patch to the right configuration file if someone send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP: bzr-plugin-webserve -- web interface for bazaar-ng
Hi, On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, Arnaud Fontaine wrote: > Package: wnpp > Owner: Arnaud Fontaine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Severity: wishlist > > * Package name: bzr-plugin-webserve > Version : web interface for bazaar-ng > Upstream Author : Goffredo Baroncelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > * URL : > http://goffredo-baroncelli.homelinux.net/bazaar/bazaar-webserve > * License : GPL > Programming Lang: Python > Description : web interface for bazaar-ng > > Webserve is a web interface to bazaar-ng (aka bzr) repositories. This is > the porting of the mercurial web interface to bazaar-ng. It can be used > as a standalone server or as a cgi script with apache for example. There's already someone working on that: see #385349. Please merge the bugs and work together. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tracking differences between Ubuntu and Debian for a set ofpackages
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, Fabio Tranchitella wrote: > Il giorno mer, 20/09/2006 alle 10.31 +0200, Daniel Baumann ha scritto: > > I know I could get it from gluck, but I wanted to be kind and ask before > > I take it. > > > > Thanks a lot, very well done. I'll modify it so that I can track > > differences between backports and etch, to keep my backports easier > > uptodate. > > Fine, that's another good use case. Could you please put it somewhere > public? We could have a common area for these "track the differences > between distributions" tools? There's also "MultiDistroTools" that are similar to this use case: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiDistroTools Examples of reports generated: http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/ http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/ruby.html Ccing lucas since he offered this service to other Debian teams like the ruby team and the debian-multimedia team. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: apt-findremovable v0.1 (initial release)
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006, Ron Johnson wrote: > > Cool, didn't know that. > > But it doesn't work for packages that are already installed via apt-get. > > I guess I'll use aptitude instead of apt-get from now on, and try to > > cleanup via apt-findremovable :) > > Some of us are partial to apt-get and would appreciate > apt-findremovable. I would rather appreciate that apt-get and aptitude share the information of which packages have been explicitely installed and which have been automatically installed. This needs more work than apt-findremovable however. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: apt-findremovable v0.1 (initial release)
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006, Alexey Feldgendler wrote: > On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:07:02 +0700, Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Some of us are partial to apt-get and would appreciate > >> apt-findremovable. > > > I would rather appreciate that apt-get and aptitude share the information > > of which packages have been explicitely installed and which have been > > automatically installed. > > Why not just stop using apt-get? aptitude can do everything the same as > apt-get and even supports the same command line parameters. Because "aptitude dist-upgrade" didn't work for upgrading my sarge desktop to etch... it was unable to compute a solution while apt-get did just fine. And this even if I tried to help him by indicating which packages to remove and which packages to install. And dist-upgrading involves lots of installation of new packages... and removal of old packages. I aptitude dist-upgrade regularly in my sid chroot without troubles. But upgrading from one release to the other is almost impossible with aptitude only, in particular if you have many packages installed with some who have been removed from Debian in the mean time and so on. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gdm/Gnome/KDE and device permissions
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006, Roland Mas wrote: > Sam Morris, 2006-10-11 13:40:08 +0200 : > > > I think HAL/PolicyTool/pam_foreground will eventually give us a > > (slow?) solution to problems like this, but it's some way off at the > > moment. Being able to add/revoke permissions with traditional > > security methods (i.e. group membership) requires kernel > > modification AFAIK. > > One could envision usage of POSIX ACLs. Very hackish, but some daemon > could add an ACL entry to various files in /dev when a user logs in, > or logs out, or time passes, or some device is plugged in, or > whatever. No need for special groups. Of course, maintenance would > probably be a nightmare, unless there's a way to share ACLs between > files that I'm not aware of. /dev is a tmpfs and that filesystem supports ACL only in very recent kernel. IIRC it has been introduced in the (upcoming) 2.6.19. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: arches and etch
On Tue, 24 Oct 2006, Reinhard Tartler wrote: > The only clean way to do this is IMO a dedicated upgrader tool. This > tool could then have special rules for the following issues: I don't know if we need such a tool, but it would be definitely helpful if we had a mechanism to give "hints" to aptitude/apt-get in order to let them know important changes in the packaging: It could be new fields like: Package: python-something Supersedes: python2.3-something, python2.4-something Renders-Useless: python-something-common It could be some generic regexps: Hint: python\d.\d-(.*) -> python-$1 We could have some priorities associated to hints so that very specific hints overrides global ones. > This is of course an etch+1 thing, and really specific for a given > release. > > You can of course imagine that these ideas don't come out of the > blue. In fact, such a tool is already deployed in ubuntu. I think we > could port it to debian as well, if enough people see a need for it. I've never evaluated it but such a tool should try to be generic: for example it should detect priority changes and proposes for example the replacement of netkit-inetd by openbsd-inetd. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: First draft of review of policy must usage
Hi, On Wed, 25 Oct 2006, Andreas Barth wrote: > * Manoj Srivastava ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061025 08:04]: > > [...] > > Manoj, I'm seriously asking you if we can delay this discussion until > after Etch is out. I'm very interessted in takeing part in the > discussion, but I really have already to many open very urgent tasks at > my hands. Andreas, I understand your feeling but you have to accept that you can't be on all fronts at the same time. I understand we need to make concessions towards a release (like concentrating on fixing bugs instead of introducing new major upstream changes) but it shouldn't block Debian's progress in all areas. You must understand that if Manoj is not fixing the policy, he probably won't use that time to fix RC bugs. And in that particular case, I have the feeling that Manoj has taken into account the remarks of the RM since he removed the problematic parts for now, and loosened some must into should in order to better fit the RM conception of 'release critical'. Manoj, I have reviewed your patch and it looks ok for me. I haven't checked its completeness (wrt etch_release_policy.txt) however. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Alioth upgrade -- done
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > As a side note: yes, we know SVN isn't reachable through svn://. > > The SVN server is up, but the relevant port is blocked by the firewall > > at the hosting facility. The admins have been contacted. In the > > meantime, use svn+ssh:// if you can. We apologise for the > > inconvenience. > > Could you perhaps set http:// exports up for the time being? Or would > that not be worth it? If the firewall is fixed tomorrow as I expect it, then I think that it's not worth it. Having a single anonymous access method is simpler in the long run and since many repositories have been checked out via svnserve, it's best to continue that way. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: .ssh/authorized_keys on alioth is disappearing
Hi, On Wed, 01 Nov 2006, Peter Samuelson wrote: > > [Norbert Preining] > > | The SSH keys are not synchronized between alioth.debian.org and > > | svn.debian.org. > > > > so this seems to be outdated. > > Correct - svn.debian.org _is_ alioth.debian.org, as of last Friday. I updated the wiki page accordingly. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: exim configuration in master, and per-user DNSBLs
Hello, On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Santiago Vila wrote: > While we are at it, allowing each user to choose among several popular > DNSBLs would be great too. In fact, there is a dnslists file in /etc/exim4 > which already contains several role accounts (and at least one which is not). > We would just need to modify db.debian.org slightly so that such file > is generated automatically from email preferences in our LDAP database. > > Would debian-admin be willing to do this sort of thing, please? Ryan Murray (neuro) already told that they would be accepting patches implementing that. But nobody wrote them yet. I started documenting myself concerning LDAP to add this information in our schema but I haven't had enough time yet and I don't know when I'll have enough. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: exim configuration in master, and per-user DNSBLs
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Santiago Vila wrote: > What about elementary HELO checking? Do they need "patches" as well? > [ I would gladly explain how to do it with postfix, but we are using exim ]. I can't answer for them. But as an alioth admin, I always like patches even for changes which look like trivial. It proves that someone has investigated a bit, wrote a patch and possibly tested it. > Back to DNSBLs: We could even store the preferences in our /home in master > in the meantime (until the LDAP schema is modified). For example: > > /home/foo/.dnsbl-preferences/zen.spamhaus.org > > A script to collect those items and write the dnslists file from them > would be almost trivial to write. I don't think that they are interested in short term hacks. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Politeness was: woody removed from mirrors
Hello, On Mon, 08 Jan 2007, Klaus Ethgen wrote: > Hello, > > Am Mo den 8. Jan 2007 um 5:15 schrieb Steve Langasek: > [flame] > > is it really necessary to start flames in this list? Kevin Mark did > answer completely objective. To bring him down with this kind of answer > is absolute below the level cultivated people should communicate with > each other. Steve ranted. Unfortunately, he had good reasons to do so. Kevin is adding noise to the list. He tries to answer even when he doesn't have the answer to the question. He's welcome here to continue to learn but he shouldn't answer for the sake of it. His last contribution to the "sex vs gender thread" shows that he's prompt to answer on subjects which are not technical and even off-topic. Fwiw, I already told him once by private mail that many of his contributions were not matching the expected technical level of the list, and after some private discussion, obviously he's not doing anything bad on purpose but his envy to participate should be directed more to learning some real technical stuff than to posting on -devel. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best scheme for teams and Maintainer/Uploaders fields ?
On Mon, 08 Jan 2007, Marcus Better wrote: > Christoph Berg wrote: > > Note that you can subscribe additional packages to any maintainer > > view. The GIS team does that: > > Is there a way to subscribe a mailing list to receive bug reports also, > without having the mailing list in the Maintainer field? Subscribe the mailing list to the PTS. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch-resources.en.html#s-pkg-tracking-system Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conffile purging and maintainer scripts
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Thomas Hood writes ("Re: conffile purging and maintainer scripts"):
> > If a file /etc/foo was formerly a conffile of the package but no
> > longer is so then /etc/foo should be dealt with in the preinst or
> > postinst.
>
> Regrettably this is currently true. I think this is a bug in dpkg and
> I think I know how to fix it. I'll see what I can do about it in a
> more appropriate venue than debian-devel :-).
Maybe at the same time you could integrate ucf into dpkg... because with
ucf you have a similar problem: the configuration file is no longer a
conffile since it's handled by ucf, and you have to take care to remove it
in maintainer scripts (on purge).
Cheers,
--
Raphaël Hertzog
Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/
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Re: Downtime for some debian.org machines (people, db, buildd, etc.)
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, James Troup wrote: > This Saturday (2006-03-25) between 13:00 - 21:00 UTC, the debian.org > machines hosted by HP are going down due to maintenance in their cage > on the power systems. The following machines and services are > affected: > > o gluck - people.d.o, planet.d.o, cvs.d.o, lintian.d.o, etc. > o raff - buildd.d.o > o merkel - qa.d.o, nm.d.o > o samosa - db.d.o > o merulo - ia64 porter box > o paer - hppa porter box > o peri - hppa 2nd buildd And haydn - alioth.debian.org ! Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How (not) to write copyright files - take two
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006, Joerg Jaspert wrote: > In many packages there is more than one author, more than one > copyright-holder and more than one license. Do not miss to list them > all, even if that other license is just for one file. Yes, any single > file is important. Each package with translations has several dozens of copyright holder, we don't have to keep that list in the copyright file, do we ? I understand that we have to be picky for packages where problems can be expected, but in general the copyright file should not reproduce the list of all the copyright holders. I suggest that it points to the relevant files (AUTHORS and similar). Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: project machine architecture aliases
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006, Hamish Moffatt wrote: > > Questions/Proposals like these are not concerning Debian development per > > se and would be better suited for debian-project. > > I disagree. It certainly does concern development. The line is blur, and when don't know really of which side it should be, I agree that we shouldn't recommend one over the other (or by private mail only). > Threads about which list to use are even more wasteful than threads that > are on the wrong list. Please let's stop now. Michael, please don't. I think Michael's efforts are useful to increase the quality of -devel. It's just this particular answer that he could have avoided. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Upload getting lost
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: > On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 10:08:21AM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote: > > On 10622 March 1977, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: > > >> I'm trying to upload a new mailman package, but this is failing > >> utterly. Could someone please help me? Thanks in advance. > > > The problem is the : in your .changes name. The match is: > > re_taint_free = re.compile(r"^[-+~/\.\w]+$"); > > > You probably want to use a + instead. > > So you are telling me this is a dpkg-source bug? The filenames are > chosen by dpkg-source. Which uses debian/changelog ... the ":" is used to indicate a "period", period can be used to use smaller upstream version if you increased it by error (or if you really need to use an older upstream version). The period should be a single digit in most cases, and here you have a period with dots in it. Edit debian/changelog, and change the ":" by "+" and you're probably done. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Upload getting lost
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Steve Langasek wrote: > > Which uses debian/changelog ... the ":" is used to indicate a "period", > > period can be used to use smaller upstream version if you increased it by > > error (or if you really need to use an older upstream version). > > > The period should be a single digit in most cases, and here you have a > > period with dots in it. > > For sake of clarity, this is called an epoch, not a period. > > A period is the dot *in* the epoch. :) Indeed ... /me hides ashamed (for yet another english vocabulary error). Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reforming the NM process
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Luca Capello wrote: > > For 2.2, I'd recommend that NM's maintain a page about them on > > wiki.d.org (my current applicant did that, and I found that rather > > useful). In a glance you can see applicants that are not comited > > enough. > > I wouldn't measure an NM commitment WRT a wiki page, at least if > she/he doesn't want to deal mainly with web pages. Writing a wiki page is like writing a mail... you can cut & paste raw text in the wiki page and it will be ok. It's really not a big requirement... you should be able to manage that if you're going to manage more complicated things like maintaining a package. > I stopped putting too much effort in maintaining my website [1], while > I increased the time involved in Debian (or F/LOSS in general). We're not asking you to maintain a debian-dedicated website... :-) Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reforming the NM process
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Luca Capello wrote: > I fear of the fact that my wiki page will be outdated, while my > involvement in Debian not. Probably it's a specific problem of mine, > as I try to be the most perfectionist I can and... without success. > > Obviously, as soon as the wiki page will be a requirement for an NM or > a DD, I'll put my best in it. Well, the wiki page has a "last change" date. The AM (or FD) will notice that it's not up-to-date and they can ask you to update it. Really it's only important to have it ready when you start the process, and if all goes well the idea is that your process starts immediately because we've gotten rid of the backlog due to our changes. Even if that's not the case, you will notice when you're getting at the top of the waiting list and at that time you could decide to update your wiki page. It's not necessary to be up-to-date always. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reforming the NM process
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Luca Capello wrote: > > Well, the wiki page has a "last change" date. The AM (or FD) will > > notice that it's not up-to-date and they can ask you to update it. > > Thank you for the explanation. > > Last questions: > > - is there something like a template for an NM page? Not yet, but we can create one quite easily. It could contain standard sections for the different kind of possible contributions along with some basic explanation of what we expect to have in such a page. > - am I correct if I create my page at w.d.o/LucaCapello? Yes, mine is w.d.o/RaphaelHertzog and many other have pages following the same logic. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Simon Huggins wrote: > On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 11:13:13PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > * All existing packaging projects should use svnmailer to send SVN diffs > > to the Package Tracking System. A sample configuration file is provided > > and I can help if you have troubles installing it. > > Are you proposing that existing projects that send to a project mailing > list should change and send to the PTS and if so can you put forward > some reasons? No, I'm not proposing that. I'm just asking to send diffs to the PTS as well as to the mailing list. I even documented that configuration in the sample configuration file. That's what I've done with python-modules recently. Some people subscribe to the -commits list because they are very involved in the team and other just use the PTS to follow the 2-3 packages that are of interest to them. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Peter Palfrader wrote: > > I am inclined to agree with the bug reporter, but I want to double check > > and ask if anybody has other arguments. > > I use ifrename to give useful names to interfaces and just because udev > may be able to do this now as well does not mean they should conflict. It looks like a good case for a debconf note, which would be displayed only if ifrename is installed. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Frank Küster wrote: > > I even documented that configuration in the sample configuration file. > > That's what I've done with python-modules recently. Some people subscribe > > to the -commits list because they are very involved in the team and other > > just use the PTS to follow the 2-3 packages that are of interest to them. > > But isn't the maintainer automatically subscribed to all messages to the > PTS? No, this has never been the case. The maintainer gets the bug reports from the BTS directly and the PTS is useful for people who are not the maintainer but which do want to receive all the information that the maintainer usually receives. Furthermore, the PTS has a very fine-grained mechanism to select which messages one wants to receive. Thus you can always work around any problem by enabling or disabling a specific keyword on a specific subscription. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > Meanwhile, which is the PTS keyword that will control the receipt of svn > commit notifications? Looking at [1] the only one I can figure out is > "cvs". Can that be generalized and/or "svn" added? I know, it's a really > minor point, but why not signaling it :) It's "cvs" yes. I have no plan to introduce a svn keyword... if I change something here I would replace "cvs" by "vcs" but I'm not sure that people would understand "vcs" better than "cvs" or "svn". So I might as well keep cvs and simply document that it is valid for any kind of "version control system". Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth
Russ wrote: > > In fact, upload notifications (the one that includes the changelog) are > > not, so far as I can tell, sent to the maintainer by default and I end up > > subscribing to the PTS to get those even for packages where I'm the only > > maintainer. I subscribe to debian-devel-changes for that. :-) On Fri, 21 Apr 2006, Mike Hommey wrote: > ... and maintainers should be subscribed to that by default. There's room for improvement indeed. I would be in favor of a tighter integration between the PTS and the @packages.debian.org email address too for example. I could implement a default subscription to the PTS for package maintainers but you first need to solve several problems: - decide which keywords they will receive by default (all except bts, bts-control and upload-binary is my choice, and maybe katie-other) - when the maintainer changes, we logically need to unsubcribe the previous. So this must be recorded somewhere. (it's not a subscription like the others) - in many cases, the maintainer doesn't want the "diff" since there's a dedicated mailing list for that on alioth ... is it OK if we leave the problem up to the maintainer to change the set of keyword accepted ? Of course help to implement it is always welcome... Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006, Simon Huggins wrote: > Sure the config file was clearer on that than your mail certainly. :-) > Yes this makes more sense now. I must admit I still thought the PTS was > only really a way to get all the bugs for a package. > > Is there a reason that when you subscribe to the PTS you don't just get > everything by default? Yes, the PTS is not a "developer-only" tool. It's also for users who care about a specific software in Debian and they certainly don't care about the diff of the packaging. They do want to know when a new version comes out and they may help duplicating bugs and so on. But not much more. (Well, that's the theory, I never did any study of who the subscribers are) > I'll go look at adding the PTS to pkg-xfce now anyway. Thanks! Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006, Mike Hommey wrote: > > - when the maintainer changes, we logically need to unsubcribe the previous. > > So this must be recorded somewhere. (it's not a subscription like the > > others) > > Isn't that a non issue if you subscribe @p.d.o ? I didn't thought of subscribing this email. In this case, yes it's a non issue but you have different issue: if the first maintainer changes the default keyword he chooses to receive, then the second maintainer won't know it and may not receive everything that he expect to receive. We would still need a way to reset the set of keyword of this email when the maintainer changes. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Andreas Metzler wrote: > I guess more people are interested in that, but this should be > different keyword triggered when debian-release marks a package for > bin-NMU, but not for the >10 separate uploads. I tend to agree. In fact I have a wishlist bug to show the bin-nmu on the web interface already. > cu andreas > [1] I am interested when they do not build package, of course. ;-) I wanted to do that from the very first day of the PTS but Ryan Murray never agreed to send mails on failed build. He said that many compilations fail because of a (temporarily) broken buildd and that it would generate too many error messages for nothing because the maintainer can't help fix the buildd issue. I don't know if the situation improved in the last 3 years, would it be more reasonable to do that nowadays? Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Simon Huggins wrote: > On Fri, Apr 21, 2006 at 03:46:36PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Apr 2006, Simon Huggins wrote: > > > I'll go look at adding the PTS to pkg-xfce now anyway. > > Thanks! > > Except as discussed on IRC in #alioth it sends to the first package > affected if many packages are so I've not added this in yet. > > We're sending to our list (as we have been for ages) for now. Please send to both the PTS and the list. You can use separate group for the PTS and for the commit list to be sure to miss absolutely nothing. [bysource] for_repos = (.*/|)svn/(?P[^/]+)$ for_paths = (desktop/trunk|goodies)/(?P[^/]+)/ bcc_addr = %(package)[EMAIL PROTECTED] to_fake = %(package)[EMAIL PROTECTED] show_nonmatching_paths = ignore [mailinglist] for_repos = (.*/|)svn/(?P[^/]+)$ for_paths = .* to_addr = [EMAIL PROTECTED] This way the PTS may miss some commits done over several packages but the mailing list will not. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Mike Hommey wrote: > > We would still need a way to reset the set of keyword of this email > > when the maintainer changes. > > Or have simpler rules: you can't change the set of keyword for > @p.d.o. > > If a maintainer wants some special set of keyword, he can still > subscribe with his own address. But then he will get the mail twice. :-| Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > Those cases can be treated differently than failures due to other > > reasons, though. > > Uh, yes; and they are. But that's not the point. > > The point really is that build failures rarely need maintainer > intervention. Bothering the maintainer with things that do not concern > them, therefore, seems of little point to me. And of course build failures that the maintainer must solve will result in FTBFS bugs (sooner or later). And these will go to the PTS like all the bugs. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wiki.debian.org mailer b0rken
On Wed, 03 May 2006, Ondrej Sury wrote: > (added openldap2.2 + gnutls to SummerOfCode2006 page) > > Status of sending notification mails: > [fr] PhilBat: (421, 'Too many concurrent SMTP connections; please try > again later.') > [en] PhilippKern, RaphaelHertzog, AlphaPapa, AlexanderSchmehl, > SteveMcIntyre, DavidMorenoGarza, aba, ChristianKuelker, BaruchEven, > JoseParrella, baszoetekouw: (421, 'Too many concurrent SMTP connections; > please try again later.') I also add the same the other day... for me wiki.d.o (moinmoin) should be configured to send mail via /usr/sbin/sendmail instead of SMTP connection. SMTP connection is too unreliable nowadays (think greylisting) and those scripts can't handle resend after a temporary error. CCing debian-admin so that they can fix this. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Policy version
Hi, On Thu, 04 May 2006, Joe Smith wrote: > It seems to me that it is unreasonable for the PTS to be updated before the > policy package actually hits the mirrors. > There is a period of time after a package leaves incomming but before the > mirrors are updated when the package is difficult to > obtain. Frankly, I updated it a bit soon, right, but that was only because 3.7.2 revert the cgi-lib stuff and the PTS will let people notice that there's a newer version and that they must take care... And do we really need to complain of something that is broken for a few hours and that's will resolve itself alone in a few hours? /me wishes people wouldn't complain when we're actually fast Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Easy way to incorporate Ubuntu improvements back into Debian?
On Fri, 05 May 2006, Daniel Stone wrote: > > What processes, infrastructure and tools are in place to streamline > > Debian integrating improvements Ubuntu makes? > > See the Utnubu project (on Alioth). Having automatic mail notifications > and the like was discussed, but many DDs did not want anything to do > with it, so the idea was quickly dropped. The PTS will receive notifications once Gustavo Franco enables his script. There's a new "derivatives" keyword for that. I will announce that when it becomes effective. > > It seems to me that Ubuntu is getting alot more out of their friendship > > with Debian, than Debian gets out of Ubuntu. Anyone have comments on > > this? Please correct me if I'm wrong, and examples would be great. > > Does Debian get lots of benefits from Ubuntu (in the software) that I'm > > unaware of? > > ... GNOME, Xorg, et al. We do benefit but we could benefit way more. In several occasions when I discovered an interesting bug fix in Ubuntu I informed the Debian maintainer. (example: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=351621) Some people like Ian Jackson work for Ubuntu and always send their patches back to Debian: he has done so for at least dpkg and firefox on several occasions. Colin Watson is working directly on debian-installer as part of his Ubuntu work as well. I wish more Ubuntu developers would act like Ian and Colin. Ubuntu also introduced some packages to provide better support for laptop (like acpi-support) and those packages are not always submitted back. I recently asked Matthew Garrett to upload it to Debian also so that our laptop task could install it... In short: in many cases we need to pull out ourselves what we want, you can't rely on Ubuntu developers to send all enhancements to us directly. That's sad, but that's not a reason to not make the effort to look into Ubuntu and see what we can grab. And that's precisely the purpose of Utnubu... but this project needs fresh blood. There's a dormant mailing list and that's all right now. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: python 2.4?
On Fri, 12 May 2006, Andreas Barth wrote: > > How about, right now, just a statement "this is what the issues are". > > Or even, "this [URL here] is the mailing list post where the issues > > are outlined." > > I forgot about them. So, I need to collect them again. Even release > managers don't have a superhuman brain (though we sometimes pretend we > do :). The only issue is Matthias Klose who absolutely wants to push big packaging changes at the same time[1] whereas everybody else agree that we should take our time for those changes since we managed to live with the current python policy until now. Doko wants python-central but the python modules team uses mostly python-support: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPythonTODO I certainly hope we can discuss that IRL at Debconf. I would welcome a Python BoF. Cheers, [1] Otherwise he could already have uploaded them since the packages are ready... cf http://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2006/01/msg00028.html -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Laptop support: acpi-support
Hello everybody, Ubuntu has made some efforts to better support a wide range of laptops and this resulted in some changes that are still not completely integrated in Debian. One of the changes is that they install automatically a package called "acpi-support" which provides lots of laptop-specific scripts. I asked Matthew Garrett to package it for Debian but he's not interested to maintain it because in his opinion this package is not a long-term solution. He prefers to invest time in pm-utils of freedesktop.org. Since I want Debian etch to work "out of the box" on most laptops, I uploaded acpi-support to Debian. It's right now in NEW, but the sources are in collab-maint SVN repository: svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/svn/collab-maint/deb-maint/acpi-support/trunk I would like this package to be added in the "laptop" task of Debian. Since I'm definitely not an expert on this subject, I would welcome co-maintainers for this package and of course testers! Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Java available from non-free
On Sun, 21 May 2006, Francesco Poli wrote: > > Anyway, the background is that James Troup, Jeroen van Wolffelaar and > > myself examined the license before accepting it into non-free (which > > is three times the usual examination, > > It may be three times the usual examination, but when the license is not > *clearly* suitable for the archive under consideration (non-free, in > this case), the general recommendation is to check with debian-legal, > AFAICT. > Do you three think that the DLJ is trivially suitable for the non-free > archive? There's something that you must keep in mind. Ftpmasters are responsible to decide if the license is OK for us or not. debian-legal is nothing more than an "advisory board" for them. They can examine a license and share remarks to ftpmasters but they certainly can't decide if the ftpmasters have to accept the package or not. In that case, ftpmasters accepted it, end of discussion. You HAVE to accept decisions of delegates within Debian, that's how we can effectively work. If you really fear legal problems, then you should work with Sun to see if you can reword the license so that it better matches the FAQ which gives us currently all the warranties that we need. We can terminate the license as soon as Sun starts bothering us with non-FAQ-conforming interpretations of their license. > Why weren't you able to examine the license in public? Because the license change was not yet public and that we *cooperate* with Sun (because we want them to free the product even more in the future). Furthermore, doing a bit of Debian PR by having a timely announce of the new java license, is good for us too. > > extensive contact with Sun to ensure that the tricky clauses were > > actually okay. > > Unfortunately that didn't mean the tricky clauses were fixed or made > harmless in any (legally binding) way. You are not responsible to make that decision in Debian, ftpmasters are. Criticizing ftpmasters won't help them changing their minds. > As has already been pointed out: what if Sun Java manages to enter a > future stable (or oldstable) release? > How quickly can Debian "effectively" drop a package from there? Just like usual. > It would be bad PR if Debian will have to remove Sun Java from the > archive, shortly after public announcements that it accepted it in. No it wouldn't. > I really hope we can solve the issues in a graceful manner. You're not interested in that. "graceful manner" means you want ftpmasters to agree with you. They won't. And I don't. Thanks to everyone who worked (even privately) on this issue! > Even better, I hope that Sun Java can become DFSG-free as quickly as > possible, You're not facilitating it. People who managed that java upload did discuss with Sun and they probably know that this was the right first step. You have no idea of the internal lobbying that may be going on and you can't judge how to best achieve DFSG-freeness of java. Cheers, PS: Yeah I'm a bit pissed of that we only have people criticizing when we do great things. -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Java available from non-free
On Sun, 21 May 2006, Thomas Weber wrote: > Don't you think that the main problem here is that there *wasn't* any > discussion, at least for the vast majority of Debian developers and > users? No, if we should discuss before taking any action we wouldn't get anything done. If you really want to contest the decision, you have the GR. That's it, but it would be unproductive. > And yes, as a Debian user I'm surprised that such decisions are > taken behind closed doors; this is not a security related issue and it > wouldn't have done any harm to Debian to discuss this in the open. Someone from Sun contacts you to examinate a new license for Java and ask you advice and all, and ask you to keep that info private. What do you respond to him ? "No sorry, we really don't care, go away"? There was no other choice, that's all. > If that had delayed the inclusion, so be it; after several years without > Sun's Java in Debian, some more weeks wouldn't have hurt neither users > nor the project itself. And we would have lost an opportunity to do some PR stuff and show everyone that we're an important player in the Linux world. The choice has already been made. Both sides have positive sides and negative ones. The choice has been made, no point in discussing it over again and again. > Oh, and the impression that pushing non-free packages in after several > hours has a high priority, while (license-wise) simple packages linger > for weeks in NEW was probably a bonus[1]. I have to agree this sucks but if you have the schedule in mind it's easy to understand: - NEW is done by Joerg usually, he's organizing debconf so there's a backlog due to that - Sun guys are here at debconf and finalize discussions with the java maintainers (Jeroen, Matthias Klose, Barry Hawkins), the package is finally uploaded and immediately installed by Jeroen (or another ftpmaster) - We make an announce (almost) the same day than Sun announces its stuff at Javaone ... > > > It would be bad PR if Debian will have to remove Sun Java from the > > > archive, shortly after public announcements that it accepted it in. > > > > No it wouldn't. > > Well, there I disagree with you: it would. At the very least, it would > give the impression that Debian can't decide what it wants. No, it would simply show that Sun is not committed to what they told us. We have been reasonable and accepted to work with them. If they change their mind, then it's Sun which is not reasonable. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Java available from non-free
On Sun, 21 May 2006, Romain Beauxis wrote: > I know I shouldn't, but I was really upset by your answer. You shouldn't be upset. > I'm happy that people speak up and claim their fear with this licence, and > no, This is OK. They can ask questions and have a right to know why ftpmasters accepted the package. > I won't hide my personal reponsability behind the ftp masters' decision: my > concern is not a fear for myself but a fear for the project. > > To all the questions and fears raised consciously and with arguments, you > answer them to shut up and respect the others decisions, that is not the way > I would work in this project as for sure. No I don't answer to "shut up". I answer to stop now because Anthony Tows responded to all the questions and give a precise course of action on how we can continue improving the situation concerning the java licensing. And I responded to someone who clearly doesn't agree with the ftpmasters decision and will continue flaming as hell when he already knows everything that he needs. Fears are unfounded, we can at any time terminate the license by removing java! Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Java available from non-free
On Sun, 21 May 2006, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Le dimanche 21 mai 2006 à 22:38 +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst a écrit : > > Given this legal background of yours, could you please help by using that > > to improve the licence, instead of just complaining about how others > > handled it? Please give the right example. > > I'm afraid I have more interesting things to do than helping non-free > software developers to get their non-free crap in the non-free archive. Good, but you shouldn't decide what others have to do. Some people are interested in java in non-free, it's not your job to try to forbid them to work on that. > If Sun doesn't fix the license (and I don't think it is our work to fix The license is good enough for Debian (ftpmasters took their decisions). There's no fix to require, but it would be good to continue working them to enhance even more the license. Such a constructive behaviour would put us in a good position to make sure that Sun releases java in a DFSG-free compliant license when they will open-source it. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Java available from non-free
On Sun, 21 May 2006, Josselin Mouette wrote: > > interested in java in non-free, it's not your job to try to forbid them to > > work on that. > > Not if it hurts the project. And it does. You think it does. Others do. Others don't. I don't. Start a GR if you think the ftpmasters are wrong. There's no point in telling everyone that you don't agree just for the sake of it. > Collaborating with Sun is a good idea for people interested in it. But > those people abused of their position in the project to force the > software directly into non-free, without any kind of discussion. How can someone force the inclusion when he's ultimately the one which decides if the software can go in or not? Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Move to python 2.4 / Changing the packaging style for python packages
On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, martin f krafft wrote: > also sprach Matthias Klose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.06.13.0149 +0200]: > > - The current pythonX.Y-foo packages having modules in the python > >library path are collapsed into one package python-foo. Binary > >independent modules are made available for the python versions > >currently supported in the distribution. Binary dependent > >extensions are put for all supported python versions into the > >same python-foo package. The overhead for a maybe unused > > Python will create optimised, binary dependent modules on first > access to .py files, right? In our case, though, this fails because > /usr is mostly read-only to those running Python. The byte-compilation is done in the postinst (with root rights), so it works. > Couldn't Python be extended to store .pyc files in /var? Python doesn't need to be changed. If you use python-support that's precisely what will happen for public modules (but they are still created in the postint with root rights). Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Move to python 2.4 / Changing the packaging style for python packages
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006, Pierre Habouzit wrote: > Le Mar 13 Juin 2006 07:12, Anthony Towns a écrit : > > Apps can do either: > > > > Package: foo > > Depends: python (>= 2.4), python-bar > > > > /usr/bin/foo: #!/usr/bin/env python > > doesn't it breaks if python-bar only provides 2.3 modules ? because in > an apt PoV the dependencies will be fullfiled, but the application > won't work for obvious reasons. "python-bar" must provide support of the current version. Given the Depends above, we suppose that python 2.4 is the default. So python-bar can't provide support for 2.3 only. :-) > the XS-Python-Version for that application would be >= 2.4 e.g., and It would be "current, >= 2.4" as an application can only use one python version at a time. If it is started with "#!/usr/bin/python2.4", then it would be plain "2.4". > that would mean that at package build time, one should ensure all the > dependency chain *has* to provide at least one fully available chain > (not necessarily 2.4, maybe 2.5 or higher ...). The dependency chain must be respected for the python version that the application uses. > and if it breaks because at some point a secondary dependency does not > provides one of the modules it was supposed to, apt won't see it's > uninstallable, because real dependencies schemes do not match how they > are projected into the apt ones, they are more subtle. This concerns only the few applications that are using a non-current python version (i.e. != /usr/bin/python). Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NMUs for Python Policy -- please hold them a little
On Fri, 23 Jun 2006, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Fri, Jun 23, 2006 at 04:33:50PM +0200, Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Probably the biggest reason why I feel this extra time would be useful > > is because the new Python Policy and the tools supporting it saw > > non-negligible changes in the last days. All of this only settled very > > recently. This explains why maintainers have been reluctant in moving > > packages to the new policy immediately. > > > > (This is not a call against properly done NMUs in general, but a > > specific call to postpone NMUs concerning the Python Policy by a few > > days because the situation just stabilized.) > > Is it actually stabilized ? Yes: http://www.ouaza.com/wordpress/2006/06/23/the-python-transition-can-continue/ I wonder if I should make a second announce on -devel-announce just to make it clear to everybody. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: News from the python policy transition
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > We also have many python applications (or badly packaged modules which > have not been caught by the first mass-bug filing) that have a dependency > "python (<< 2.4)" and that needs to be updated as well. Please find the > list below (~150 packages). The maintainers concerned have to follow the > same instructions than the maintainers of modules/extensions: > http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy Of course, it has been ported to my attention that packages already converted to the new policy but who are only supporting the current versions (like apps with private extensions) still have this dependency... and it's _normal_. So there are false positives in the list. It's also true that packages with (only) private extensions do not benefit much from the transition to the new policy, apart from offering a way to identify them more easily. The main point of the new policy was for public modules/extensions. In fact, the new dh_python even has a bug that lead to an incomplete dependency in some cases for packages with private extensions. (I have patch and I will send it to debhelper's BTS) Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bits from the Package Tracking System
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > Is an archive of those mails available somewhere? This way the "small > patches" will be available even for packages of people not subscribed to > the PTS. Or for people who subscribe after some version has been > uploaded to ubuntu. There's only the mailing list archive on the Ubuntu side for now. I agree that the PTS should have a web archive for all the content that is generated mainly for it and that is not simply relayed via it (like the BTS mails). Nobody has implemented that yet though, and it will also be quite expensive on disk size... (it shouldn't be a big worry however given the disk size that recent Debian servers tend to have) > A dumb way to implement that is of course set up a mail account > subscribed to all packages with the derivative keyword. I can set up > such an account, but I guess there exists an easier solution for setting > up the archive on the PTS side. Could you comment on that? Please don't go to the "quick & dirty" route. With the scale of the PTS you would simply create unnecessary load for the mail processing that master.debian.org really doesn't need. The PTS scripts receive the mail directly, they can be patched to store a copy for the web frontend. Someone just needs to do it prperly... (cf my call for help at the of the announce ;-)). Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bits from the Package Tracking System
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> On 2006-07-17 20:39, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
>
> > The Ubuntu distribution will be the first to make use of this new feature.
> > Each time that a new package is uploaded to Ubuntu, the PTS will receive
> > the diff between the new version and the previous one. This way we'll
> > receive regularly small patches instead of having only a big monolithic
> > patch on http://patches.ubuntu.com/ (those will continue to be updated
> > anyway). Those mails will look like this:
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-patches/2006-July/thread.html
> >
> Note that this isn't working right now (as of about 15 minutes ago); the
> problem's somewhere at Debian's end (the PTS is rejecting our mails all
> of a sudden) and Raphael will hopefully look into it.
I just did. Master's exim configuration has been changed today [1]. DSA
probably tried to improve the configuration since master.d.o has been
suffering from overload recently.
The check for the X-PTS-Approved header has been hardwired in exim4.conf
but the check is more strict that the one I used to have: I would only
require the header when sending mail to @packages.qa.debian.org
and *not* when sending mails to _@packages.qa.debian.org
since those emails are not advertised and not (yet) spammed.
Dear admins, any chance to implement the same (looser) check in exim4.conf
instead of the current one?
In the mean time, anyone who is affected by this change should just add
the required header.
Cheers,
[1] I've found this in master's /etc/exim4/exim4.conf (which has been modified
today):
#!!# ACL that is used after the DATA command
check_message:
require verify = header_syntax
denyhosts = !+debianhosts
condition = ${if [EMAIL PROTECTED]
def:h_X-PTS-Approved:{false}{true}}}{false}}
message = messages to the PTS require an X-PTS-Approved header
--
Raphaël Hertzog
Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/
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Re: lilypond and python
Hi Matthias, On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Matthias Klose wrote: > well, there's curently only one person spreading lies and fud about > python packaging, so please don't talk about "lies" as well. Please stop ranting against Josselin, in particular if you have nothing precise/factual to criticize. You're not making it easy to colloborate with you. I expect more from you. > I'm still testing uprades and fixing upgrade issues. experimental has a > python-defaults pointing to 2.4, so you can prepare your package and > upload it to experimental. "pending" doesn't imply "will be fixed in x > days". You sent an announce to debian-devel-announce announcing the upload of the new python2.4 by default more than a month ago. You're not living up to your own promise. I tried to help you in numerous ways: - I've done the new dh_python and handled the initial bugs in a timely fashion - I coordinated the discussion between you and Josselin while you refused to discuss together - I tried to help you setup a real Python team and you promised me to start using "pkg-python" SVN repository and you never did that. Now, please accept the blame of Thomas, you're late and it's your fault. You are the python maintainer and nobody is forcing you to keep that responsibility and I explicitely asked you to share it with other people having more time than you have but you haven't done anything to help that process... Would you please, accept the facts, open your eyes and start making efforts to setup a real python maintenance team? I'll gladly assist you in that process. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bits from the Package Tracking System
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > Denis, pissed off > > PS: No, I am not joking > > Raphael ensured us that this would be an opt-in notification, and we agreed > to provide the data feed for it under this assumption. If there was a > configuration error which caused this not to be the case, please try not to > overreact, be patient and allow it to be corrected. I did what I said in the announce (ie initialize the "derivatives" keyword with the people who had 'already opt-in' for the cvs keyword). I had this discussion with Denis on IRC before and it's precicely for people like him that I added the "keywordall" command. There's nothing else to add. I did what's best im my "PTS maintainer" point of view. And since I did the work, I decided following my opinion. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilypond and python
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > Matthias Klose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > experimental has a python-defaults pointing to 2.4 > > When did this happen? Is there some reason you didn't reply to my > status-requests with this information? Why are you trying to keep > things secret from me? Please stop exagerating as well. Matthias has its share of responsibility, but don't accuse him of hiding stuff when you didn't read carefully debian-devel-announce and when you're not subscribed to debian-python. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/06/msg8.html So the experimental upload was announced (and done) more than a month ago. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
debian-admin CVS, tarballs available
Hello, the debian-admin CVS repository is not accessible via pserver. After some discussion with Joey, it looks like it's a choice of DSA rather than a mistake (security concern with pserver implementation probably). And since the web interface [1] also doesn't provide any nice way to download the content of the repository I just hacked a little script that I've put in my crontab on gluck: it checkouts (in read-only mode) the various repositories and generate a tarball: http://people.debian.org/~hertzog/cvs-debian-admin/ Just FYI and for those who need to grab the latest sources and were annoyed like I was. :-) (Some non-DD who don't have access to gluck told me that this was annoying them as well, that's why I'm announcing the availablity of tarballs here) Cheers, [1] http://cvs.debian.org/?root=debian-admin -- Raphaël Hertzog Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
