Re: Stus-List Helicoils

[schiller via CnC-List]

Helicoils are great things!

We used to wet install helicoils with a poly imide epoxy primer for both 
galvanic isolation and as a thread locker building precision guided 
munitions.  If you can find poly imide epoxy in anything less than 
gallon sizes it is very useful anytime you need to install stainless 
into aluminum.  Tef Gel is great stuff but it is a lubricant.


If you can find locking helicoils, install those.  Remember to break the 
tangs after installation.  If you don't it will gall the fastener very 
quickly.


Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC
Launch on Monday!


On 5/14/2020 10:27 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:
Helicoils are just one option to deal with stripped threads.  IMO if 
you can go with a larger bolt then it is a better option.  Some 
applications such as spark plugs have limited "meat" and fixed 
diameter threads so staying with original size is really probably the 
only option.  In other circumstances (SS fasteners in aluminum) you 
may actually find a good option is to drill the hole clean and install 
a "liner" such as a rivnut (rivet-nut).  This way you will have 
stainless on stainless.  This is really only an option when the 
material is relatively thin and has space behind (masts).


As for your furler I imagine that the fasteners failed because of the 
aluminum to stainless galvanic corrosion?  In this case you probably 
have room to increase the diameter but probably not the depth for a 
rivnut (or for that matter a Helicoil).  I would definitely suggest up 
sizing for this situation.  You will now find that you have options. 
Standard or metric, and how much larger?  I would walk the isle of the 
hardware store and evaluate availability of fasteners before settling 
on anything.  Particularly difficult to find may be metric set screws 
in stainless.  This is your opportunity to "upgrade" to more available 
standard sizes in stainless.  In the case of set screws, you may want 
to consider availability of allen wrench.  9/32nds or 17/64ths is 
relatively less available.  Stepping up another fraction might put you 
in a more conventional size of tool.  When you install them, make sure 
to use a galvanic isolating material, either a lubricant like tef-gel 
or anti-seize, or a thread locker. Blue or green thread locker would 
be my choice for 1/8 to 1/4 inch set screws.  You'll probably have to 
plan on bringing a micro torch when to go to remove the screws.


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Thu, May 14, 2020, 21:52 David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


I have seen mention of helicoils several times on this list but I
have no experience with them.  I have several stripped screws on
my Harken furler and was thinking they might be useful to repair. 
What is unclear to me from what I have read is the reason to use
them.  I still have threads there, and I thought the idea was to
screw in a helicoil to make the threads grab again.  However,
every description I have seen of using them drills out the hole,
taps and then screws in a helicoil.  I don’t get the point.  If I
am going to drill and tap, why would I use a helicoil instead of
just putting a screw into the newly tapped hole?  Is it that you
can use the same size screw as before instead of going to a larger
size?  Is that preferable for some reason?  Dave

David Knecht
S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT


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Re: Stus-List C&C 29s with a Dodger

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

 Jeremy; your question is a good one, and it is a good idea to get the 
information about what the former owners had for a dodger;  the other 29 owners 
on this list will give you some excellent ideas; however, I suggest that you 
take a deeper look at the differing types of dodgers before spending hard 
earned bucks on a your dodger. 
This inquiry starts with some questions; 1. what type of sailing are you 
planning; racing, cruising, day sailing, etc; each of these affects the type 
and design of a dodger...for example, racers will want a smaller dodger for 
visibility and access to cabin top winches and gear; cruisers, will want 
maximum coverage for both rain and sun, so they will want larger dodgers; 
2. What area of the country are you sailing?   Northern climates usually have 
smaller and more closed in dodgers to ward off cold spray from waves and wind, 
while in warmer climates, it is common to forego the dodger altogether and go 
with a large bimini; 
3. What's in your wallet; a good canvas dodger can get pricey, and there are 
lots of extras, like leather edges, hand holds and fittings and provisions for 
solar panels; and on the other end there are kits available where you can make 
your own;
We had a 29 II model and we had a dodger custom made to allow the hatch to be 
open even in rains, (light rains-not squalls), it worked well for us, but we 
didn't race and it was worth the expense for us...So, some things to think 
about...and let us know what you decide upon!  
 
Richard
 s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596;
Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
 
-Original Message-
From: Jeremy Dinsel via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeremy Dinsel 
Sent: Wed, May 13, 2020 7:46 pm
Subject: Stus-List C&C 29s with a Dodger


I’m looking to add a dodger to my C&C 29 (the original model). It used to have 
one, but one of the previous owners removed it before I ever saw it. I’m 
wondering if any of the C&C 29 owners on this list wouldn’t mind sending me a 
photo of their dodger along with any statements of affirmation that adding such 
a costly item to the boat is worth it. My friend, and fellow C&C owner Lee has 
already advised me that I’m not likely to get the return on investment when I 
eventually sell the boat, but it might make the boat easier to sell when the 
time comes. I think I’m okay with this because I think the dodger will help 
with keeping some of the cold pacific northwest winds off me when I’m relaxing 
in full foulies in the cockpit, staring at the sun with eyes closed (or the 
clouds blocking the sun). 
Best regards and thanks in advance!
Jeremy DinselS/V Whisper, 1977 C&C 29

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Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

If you did not want to rely on taking showers ashore, what C&Cs are best set up 
for onboard showers? I know in theory I could do it now, but it makes a mess 
out of the head and then some. We shower aboard with a hose in the cockpit now.
Landfall 38 maybe? Don’ they have a shower stall?


Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com


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Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Joe,

C&C 37+ — completely separate shower stall with a seat in there too. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 











On May 15, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:

If you did not want to rely on taking showers ashore, what C&Cs are best set up 
for onboard showers? I know in theory I could do it now, but it makes a mess 
out of the head and then some. We shower aboard with a hose in the cockpit now.
Landfall 38 maybe? Don’ they have a shower stall?
 
 
Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com 
 
 
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Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[Doug Mountjoy via CnC-List]

My Landfall 39 has 2 showers. Plus an added one in the cockpit. Doug Mountjoysv 
Rebecca Leah C&C Landfall 39Port Orchard yacht club
 Original message From: "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
 Date: 5/15/20  08:40  (GMT-08:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: "Della Barba, Joe"  Subject: 
Stus-List Best Shower Boat 




If you did not want to rely on taking showers ashore, what C&Cs are best set up 
for onboard showers? I know in theory I could do it now, but it makes a mess out
 of the head and then some. We shower aboard with a hose in the cockpit now.
Landfall 38 maybe? Don’ they have a shower stall?
 
 
Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com

 
 



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Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Listers-

A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him to 
the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and dropped me 
like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a one-hour race 
despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating (demonstrating yet 
again that ratings don’t necessarily account for performance differences).  It 
was an eye-opening demonstration.

So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on a 
30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line block, 
and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this Ranger 28, 
I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the asym) to be 
able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an asym tack line 
block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and hoist/douse the asym using 
a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem to accommodate a furler.

Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or 
bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did 
some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of course 
wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice or 
recommendations?

Thanks,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO
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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Randy

You may take a rating hit for having a sprit on the boat for this.  The 
measurement will be Total Sprit Length (TSL) and if that exceeds J there is 
usually an adjustment.

Have you considered a symmetrical spinnaker?  The 30 was designed for one and 
the downwind angles would clobber a Ranger 28 flying an asym tacked at bow.

Regards

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via 
CnC-List
Sent: May 15, 2020 1:23 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Randy Stafford 
Subject: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

Listers-

A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him to 
the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and dropped me 
like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a one-hour race 
despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating (demonstrating yet 
again that ratings don’t necessarily account for performance differences).  It 
was an eye-opening demonstration.

So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on a 
30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line block, 
and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this Ranger 28, 
I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the asym) to be 
able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an asym tack line 
block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and hoist/douse the asym using 
a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem to accommodate a furler.

Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or 
bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did 
some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of course 
wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice or 
recommendations?

Thanks,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO
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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Mike,

Yes Grenadine is rigged for symmetrical spinnaker and I fly it in some races.  
I’m still at a disadvantage in speed of setting sails without furlers.

I would be surprised if TSL would need to be greater than 13.5’!

Cheers,
Randy

> On May 15, 2020, at 10:28 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Randy
> 
> You may take a rating hit for having a sprit on the boat for this.  The 
> measurement will be Total Sprit Length (TSL) and if that exceeds J there is 
> usually an adjustment.
> 
> Have you considered a symmetrical spinnaker?  The 30 was designed for one and 
> the downwind angles would clobber a Ranger 28 flying an asym tacked at bow.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Mike Hoyt
> Persistence
> Halifax, NS
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Randy Stafford 
> via CnC-List
> Sent: May 15, 2020 1:23 PM
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Randy Stafford 
> Subject: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I
> 
> Listers-
> 
> A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
> top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him to 
> the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and dropped me 
> like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a one-hour 
> race despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating 
> (demonstrating yet again that ratings don’t necessarily account for 
> performance differences).  It was an eye-opening demonstration.
> 
> So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on 
> a 30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line 
> block, and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this 
> Ranger 28, I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the 
> asym) to be able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an 
> asym tack line block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and 
> hoist/douse the asym using a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem 
> to accommodate a furler.
> 
> Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or 
> bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did 
> some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of 
> course wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice 
> or recommendations?
> 
> Thanks,
> Randy Stafford
> S/V Grenadine
> C&C 30 MK I #79
> Ken Caryl, CO
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 


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Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%26C_37/40#/media/File:C&C_37-40_Heads_Interior.jpg


On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 12:48, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Joe,
>
> C&C 37+ — completely separate shower stall with a seat in there too.
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Captain of the Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL
>
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 15, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> If you did not want to rely on taking showers ashore, what C&Cs are best
> set up for onboard showers? I know in theory I could do it now, but it
> makes a mess out of the head and then some. We shower aboard with a hose in
> the cockpit now.
> Landfall 38 maybe? Don’ they have a shower stall?
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I*
> *www.dellabarba.com *
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Hi Randy,

Few years ago we added an A2 on a Facnor furler and and Selden sprit to our 
33-2. We do like it,  easy and safe to use single or shorthanded and my 
girlfriend feels confortable knowing i can manage everything safely by myself 
while she drives the boat.
But if i had to choose again i would go for a sock instead of a furler. That 
would be cheaper and faster in my opinion. It is pretty slow to furl a big asym 
on a rope, maybe the profurl with the plastic balls is faster with a larger 
diameter ? racing i need to plan ahead and start furling early.
Also to consider, on my setup, the tack (furler drum) is fixed on the sprit and 
anyways, the tack and head are on a fixed lenth of torque rope, the tuning is 
limited compared to a free flying sail with a regular adjustable tack line.

On windward/leeward courses, you can't really go straight downwind and usually 
need to jibe and sail longer course that sym spin boats, you can go wing on 
wing in some conditions but it is not ideal. Sometimes a similar boat with a 
big no1 genoa poled out with a whisker pole is almost as fast and correct with 
a better rating.

this year we got a new Symmetrical and i'm getting a carbon pole. it is a more 
complex setup short handed but way more efficient downwind on our displacement 
boat. Something new to learn on our boat!

Food for thought.

Best.

Bruno Lachance
Bécassine, 1987 33-2
New-Richmond, Qc

De : CnC-List  de la part de Hoyt, Mike via 
CnC-List 
Envoyé : 15 mai 2020 12:28
À : 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
Cc : Hoyt, Mike 
Objet : Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

Hi Randy

You may take a rating hit for having a sprit on the boat for this.  The 
measurement will be Total Sprit Length (TSL) and if that exceeds J there is 
usually an adjustment.

Have you considered a symmetrical spinnaker?  The 30 was designed for one and 
the downwind angles would clobber a Ranger 28 flying an asym tacked at bow.

Regards

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via 
CnC-List
Sent: May 15, 2020 1:23 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Randy Stafford 
Subject: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

Listers-

A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him to 
the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and dropped me 
like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a one-hour race 
despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating (demonstrating yet 
again that ratings don’t necessarily account for performance differences).  It 
was an eye-opening demonstration.

So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on a 
30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line block, 
and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this Ranger 28, 
I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the asym) to be 
able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an asym tack line 
block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and hoist/douse the asym using 
a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem to accommodate a furler.

Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or 
bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did 
some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of course 
wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice or 
recommendations?

Thanks,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO
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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Randy:

What do you mean when you say "rigged"?  I have an asym, but I just use 
my spin pole set all the way forward and as low as possible.  Do you have one 
of those pole gizmos?

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 12:36 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Randy Stafford 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

Hi Mike,

Yes Grenadine is rigged for symmetrical spinnaker and I fly it in some races.  
I’m still at a disadvantage in speed of setting sails without furlers.

I would be surprised if TSL would need to be greater than 13.5’!

Cheers,
Randy

> On May 15, 2020, at 10:28 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Randy
> 
> You may take a rating hit for having a sprit on the boat for this.  The 
> measurement will be Total Sprit Length (TSL) and if that exceeds J there is 
> usually an adjustment.
> 
> Have you considered a symmetrical spinnaker?  The 30 was designed for one and 
> the downwind angles would clobber a Ranger 28 flying an asym tacked at bow.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Mike Hoyt
> Persistence
> Halifax, NS
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Randy Stafford 
> via CnC-List
> Sent: May 15, 2020 1:23 PM
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Randy Stafford 
> Subject: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I
> 
> Listers-
> 
> A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
> top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him to 
> the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and dropped me 
> like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a one-hour 
> race despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating 
> (demonstrating yet again that ratings don’t necessarily account for 
> performance differences).  It was an eye-opening demonstration.
> 
> So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on 
> a 30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line 
> block, and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this 
> Ranger 28, I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the 
> asym) to be able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an 
> asym tack line block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and 
> hoist/douse the asym using a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem 
> to accommodate a furler.
> 
> Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or 
> bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did 
> some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of 
> course wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice 
> or recommendations?
> 
> Thanks,
> Randy Stafford
> S/V Grenadine
> C&C 30 MK I #79
> Ken Caryl, CO
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 


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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Donald Kern via CnC-List]

Randy,

Most PHRF rating organizations will adjust (negatively) your rating for 
adding a tack point forward of the "J" measurement of the boat. You may 
receive a credit for both a retrofit application and due to a smaller 
sail area for a spinnaker - depends on the rating rules for your PHRF 
organization.  Also an asymmetrical spinnaker is a free fly sail, thus 
adding a hard furler is not done for an asym.  I do not understand why 
you stated "So I can’t just shackle an asym tack line block to the spare 
headsail shackle on the stem, and hoist/douse the asym using a sock." 
That should be an option. Lastly, the 30 Mk1 was designed to go deep 
downwind with a symmetrical spinnaker, which would have a greater sail 
area projected to windward an inherently faster than a asym rig deep 
downwind.  The plus side that an asym would give your 30 Mk1 would be on 
reaching legs.  Hope this helps.


Don Kern
Fireball C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI
Commo. PHRF-NB


On 5/15/2020 12:22 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List wrote:

Listers-

A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him to 
the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and dropped me 
like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a one-hour race 
despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating (demonstrating yet 
again that ratings don’t necessarily account for performance differences).  It 
was an eye-opening demonstration.

So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on a 
30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line block, 
and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this Ranger 28, 
I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the asym) to be 
able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an asym tack line 
block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and hoist/douse the asym using 
a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem to accommodate a furler.

Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or bracket 
etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did some 
reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of course wanted to 
check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice or recommendations?

Thanks,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO
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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Matt,

What I mean is my boat has a spinnaker pole, mast ring on track, topping lift, 
pole downhaul deck hardware, etc.  What do you mean pole gizmos?  :)

Interesting that you use your spin pole at the tack of your asym if I 
understood correctly.  Can you keep it low enough with the pole downhaul?  My 
spin pole doesn’t extend forward of the stem - I can dip gybe with it.

Cheers,
Randy

> On May 15, 2020, at 11:01 AM, Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Randy:
> 
>   What do you mean when you say "rigged"?  I have an asym, but I just use 
> my spin pole set all the way forward and as low as possible.  Do you have one 
> of those pole gizmos?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Randy Stafford 
> via CnC-List
> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 12:36 PM
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Randy Stafford 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> Yes Grenadine is rigged for symmetrical spinnaker and I fly it in some races. 
>  I’m still at a disadvantage in speed of setting sails without furlers.
> 
> I would be surprised if TSL would need to be greater than 13.5’!
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy
> 
>> On May 15, 2020, at 10:28 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Randy
>> 
>> You may take a rating hit for having a sprit on the boat for this.  The 
>> measurement will be Total Sprit Length (TSL) and if that exceeds J there is 
>> usually an adjustment.
>> 
>> Have you considered a symmetrical spinnaker?  The 30 was designed for one 
>> and the downwind angles would clobber a Ranger 28 flying an asym tacked at 
>> bow.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Mike Hoyt
>> Persistence
>> Halifax, NS
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Randy Stafford 
>> via CnC-List
>> Sent: May 15, 2020 1:23 PM
>> To: cnc-list 
>> Cc: Randy Stafford 
>> Subject: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I
>> 
>> Listers-
>> 
>> A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
>> top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him 
>> to the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and 
>> dropped me like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a 
>> one-hour race despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating 
>> (demonstrating yet again that ratings don’t necessarily account for 
>> performance differences).  It was an eye-opening demonstration.
>> 
>> So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on 
>> a 30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line 
>> block, and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this 
>> Ranger 28, I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the 
>> asym) to be able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an 
>> asym tack line block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and 
>> hoist/douse the asym using a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem 
>> to accommodate a furler.
>> 
>> Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or 
>> bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did 
>> some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of 
>> course wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice 
>> or recommendations?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Randy Stafford
>> S/V Grenadine
>> C&C 30 MK I #79
>> Ken Caryl, CO
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

The 90s version of the 36XL (formerly the 34/36?) also have a shower with a 
seat separate from the toilet.
Charlie Nelson1995 36XL/kcbWater Phantom

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
 On Friday, May 15, 2020, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  
wrote:

 
If you did not want to rely on taking showers ashore, what C&Cs are best set up 
for onboard showers? I know in theory I could do it now, but it makes a mess 
out of the head and then some. We shower aboard with a hose in the cockpit now.
 
Landfall 38 maybe? Don’ they have a shower stall?
 
  
 
  
 
Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
 
www.dellabarba.com
 
  
 
  
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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Randy,

I added a Selden sprit to a dock neighbor's Peterson 37.  In our region, he
was able to add a certain length without penalty.  We marked the maximum
allowed extension.  Your PHRF authority may be different.  The racing
success of the boat didn't change substantially.

Have you strenuously analyzed the adjustments in your PHRF bylaws for any
relief, cheats, hacks, etc.?

If you change to a furling headsail, will you get a credit?  I carry a +6
second roller furler credit on Touche'.  Personally, I don't think it's
worth the decrease in sail area.  I had to cut my racing headsail down to
fit the furler.  C&C's are primarily headsail driven.  You'd be decreasing
your main engine.  On the other hand, on a long downwind distance race
carrying a chute, the 6 seconds comes in handy.  Your races are too short
to benefit from that.

If you decide to go asym, I think a sock is the way to go if you have
enough crew to manage it.

Can you add a plate or fitting onto the front of your bow chain plate for
the tack point?

Dennis C.

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 11:23 AM Randy Stafford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Listers-
>
> A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a
> top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him
> to the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and
> dropped me like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in
> a one-hour race despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted
> rating (demonstrating yet again that ratings don’t necessarily account for
> performance differences).  It was an eye-opening demonstration.
>
> So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one
> on a 30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack
> line block, and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with
> this Ranger 28, I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one
> for the asym) to be able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just
> shackle an asym tack line block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem,
> and hoist/douse the asym using a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the
> stem to accommodate a furler.
>
> Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or
> bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did
> some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of
> course wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any
> advice or recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
> Randy Stafford
> S/V Grenadine
> C&C 30 MK I #79
> Ken Caryl, CO
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>

-- 
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Don,

Thanks for the reply.

My RSA hasn't published rating rules on retrofit sprits and asyms etc. - it’s 
new territory for them.

It would seem that people do use top-down furlers for asyms: see for example 
https://www.quantumsails.com/en/resources-and-expertise/articles/the-top-5-reasons-top-down-spinnaker-furlers-are-a
 
.

I can shackle an asym tack line block to the spare headsail shack on the stem, 
and hoist/douse the asym using a sock.  It just might not be as fast as using a 
furler like my competitor does.

When the Ranger 28 with the asym beat me off-wind Wednesday night, I was under 
jib and main, not my symmetrical chute.  It was a broad reach (AWA ~140) to the 
next mark, then a beam reach to the last mark.

The responses from you and Mike Hoyt make me think I should try going 
head-to-head with him while flying my symmetrical spinnaker - which of course 
is a reasonable suggestion, and one that would save me money :)  I’ll still be 
at a disadvantage in sail setting speed because he has furlers and I don’t.  
But I should try that first.

Cheers,
Randy

> On May 15, 2020, at 11:05 AM, Donald Kern via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Randy,
> 
> Most PHRF rating organizations will adjust (negatively) your rating for 
> adding a tack point forward of the "J" measurement of the boat. You may 
> receive a credit for both a retrofit application and due to a smaller sail 
> area for a spinnaker - depends on the rating rules for your PHRF 
> organization.  Also an asymmetrical spinnaker is a free fly sail, thus adding 
> a hard furler is not done for an asym.  I do not understand why you stated 
> "So I can’t just shackle an asym tack line block to the spare headsail 
> shackle on the stem, and hoist/douse the asym using a sock." That should be 
> an option. Lastly, the 30 Mk1 was designed to go deep downwind with a 
> symmetrical spinnaker, which would have a greater sail area projected to 
> windward an inherently faster than a asym rig deep downwind.  The plus side 
> that an asym would give your 30 Mk1 would be on reaching legs.  Hope this 
> helps.
> 
> Don Kern
> Fireball C&C35 Mk2
> Bristol, RI
> Commo. PHRF-NB
> 
> 
> On 5/15/2020 12:22 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List wrote:
>> Listers-
>> 
>> A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
>> top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him 
>> to the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and 
>> dropped me like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a 
>> one-hour race despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating 
>> (demonstrating yet again that ratings don’t necessarily account for 
>> performance differences).  It was an eye-opening demonstration.
>> 
>> So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on 
>> a 30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line 
>> block, and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this 
>> Ranger 28, I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the 
>> asym) to be able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an 
>> asym tack line block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and 
>> hoist/douse the asym using a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem 
>> to accommodate a furler.
>> 
>> Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or 
>> bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did 
>> some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of 
>> course wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice 
>> or recommendations?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Randy Stafford
>> S/V Grenadine
>> C&C 30 MK I #79
>> Ken Caryl, CO
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

No wonder you got spanked.

 

Yes, try the chute first before making any big changes.  I only use my asym for 
closer hauled stuff 65 to 110 range.  Deeper than that and the big chute comes 
out.

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 2:18 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Randy Stafford 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

 

Hi Don,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

My RSA hasn't published rating rules on retrofit sprits and asyms etc. - it’s 
new territory for them.

 

It would seem that people do use top-down furlers for asyms: see for example 
https://www.quantumsails.com/en/resources-and-expertise/articles/the-top-5-reasons-top-down-spinnaker-furlers-are-a.

 

I can shackle an asym tack line block to the spare headsail shack on the stem, 
and hoist/douse the asym using a sock.  It just might not be as fast as using a 
furler like my competitor does.

 

When the Ranger 28 with the asym beat me off-wind Wednesday night, I was under 
jib and main, not my symmetrical chute.  It was a broad reach (AWA ~140) to the 
next mark, then a beam reach to the last mark.

 

The responses from you and Mike Hoyt make me think I should try going 
head-to-head with him while flying my symmetrical spinnaker - which of course 
is a reasonable suggestion, and one that would save me money :)  I’ll still be 
at a disadvantage in sail setting speed because he has furlers and I don’t.  
But I should try that first.

 

Cheers,

Randy





On May 15, 2020, at 11:05 AM, Donald Kern via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Randy,

Most PHRF rating organizations will adjust (negatively) your rating for adding 
a tack point forward of the "J" measurement of the boat. You may receive a 
credit for both a retrofit application and due to a smaller sail area for a 
spinnaker - depends on the rating rules for your PHRF organization.  Also an 
asymmetrical spinnaker is a free fly sail, thus adding a hard furler is not 
done for an asym.  I do not understand why you stated "So I can’t just shackle 
an asym tack line block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and 
hoist/douse the asym using a sock." That should be an option. Lastly, the 30 
Mk1 was designed to go deep downwind with a symmetrical spinnaker, which would 
have a greater sail area projected to windward an inherently faster than a asym 
rig deep downwind.  The plus side that an asym would give your 30 Mk1 would be 
on reaching legs.  Hope this helps.

Don Kern
Fireball C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI
Commo. PHRF-NB


On 5/15/2020 12:22 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List wrote:



Listers-

A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him to 
the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and dropped me 
like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a one-hour race 
despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating (demonstrating yet 
again that ratings don’t necessarily account for performance differences).  It 
was an eye-opening demonstration.

So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on a 
30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line block, 
and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this Ranger 28, 
I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the asym) to be 
able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an asym tack line 
block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and hoist/douse the asym using 
a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem to accommodate a furler.

Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or 
bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did 
some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of course 
wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice or 
recommendations?

Thanks,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO
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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

 

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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have been flying both sym and asym spinnakers on Windburn for the last few 
years.
A small tack point has been added on the bow forward of everything for the 
asym. I found
that using an oversized pole works better, maybe a C&C 30-1 thing. Pulling the 
pole back
a bit and getting some more chute in front generates way more power than 
centerline
tacking. Enough of a difference to make up for sailing a bit deeper.


The largest chutes are 195%, about a 26.5' foot on the asym, and 26.3' max 
girth on the sym.


The load on the guy is high so the line runs through a snatch block to the 
primary winch.
It is a Samson line with a no stretch core, normal good double braid was a 
problem.
At higher wind speeds the force back through the spinnaker pole has to be 
hundreds of
pounds. I upgraded the spin track and car to the midsize Harken series. Even 
with that
it is dicey adjusting the height while flying. The Torlon bearings appear to go 
slightly
oval each season so that is on the winter maintence replace list.


When flying the asym at 100 degrees AWA or tighter in heavier winds the genoa 
does not
depower the spinnaker for take down. If it gets even slightly away from you it 
will fill, sometimes
pretty violently.


I am glad the 30-1 is so heavily over built.

Michael Brown

Windburn
C&C 30-1





 From:   Randy Stafford  
 To:   cnc-list  
 Sent:   5/15/2020 12:22 PM 
 Subject:   Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I 

Listers- 
 
A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him to 
the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and dropped me 
like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a one-hour race 
despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating (demonstrating yet 
again that ratings don’t necessarily account for performance differences).  It 
was an eye-opening demonstration. 
 
So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on a 
30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line block, 
and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this Ranger 28, 
I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the asym) to be 
able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an asym tack line 
block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and hoist/douse the asym using 
a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem to accommodate a furler. 
 
Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or 
bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did 
some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of course 
wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice or 
recommendations? 
 
Thanks, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK I #79 
Ken Caryl, CO 
 
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Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi Joe,

Both the 34+ (34/36) and the 37+ (37/40) have separate shower stalls.  Both
have curtain and all. Amazingly enough even the one in the 34+ is normal
human size / comfortable to take a decent shower  / store stuff / house a
free standing A/C unit.

Also, they have a separate shower sump with pump for direct overboard
discharge so that the sudsy water doesn't end-up stinking-up your bilge.

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA
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Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

Actually, the 37+ (37/40) has a plexiglass shower door, not a curtain. The
door can open into a shallow recess in the wall, hidden behind the wood
door in the photo linked below, so it will be completely out of the way
when you don't need it.

It works very well actually.  And there is a seat in the shower stall too,
as Edd pointed out.

Ken H.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%26C_37/40#/media/File:C&C_37-40_Heads_Interior.jpg


On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 16:06, Francois Rivard via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Joe,
>
> Both the 34+ (34/36) and the 37+ (37/40) have separate shower stalls.
> Both have curtain and all. Amazingly enough even the one in the 34+ is
> normal human size / comfortable to take a decent shower  / store stuff /
> house a free standing A/C unit.
>
> Also, they have a separate shower sump with pump for direct overboard
> discharge so that the sudsy water doesn't end-up stinking-up your bilge.
>
> -Francois Rivard
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, GA
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List]

Following this closely.
Generally, the C&C 30 with it's smallish main covering the largish 
headsail doesn't go downwind fast.  Getting a sym spin out from behind
the main greatly improves it's downwind speed.  I don't see where an 
Asym would improve that scenario much at all, especially without a sprit 
pole.
The angles would be near what you'd have to sail to keep a headsail 
full...albeit there would be a lot more of it in a light wind.


Generally, hoisting and dousing the spin doesn't take my team very long 
at all. Hoist would definitely be equivalent to unfurling. Light wind douses
into the bag on the foredeck or in moderate winds into the cockpit 
behind the main and headsails is pretty quick.  Does take some practice tho.


If you've got light wind reaching a drifter/asym would do you great 
gains.  C&C 30 has the shortest mast and highest ballest ratio to any

of the C&C's, so it's never gonna be a light wind competative boat.

Food for thought.

Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
   C&C 30
   Armdale Y.C.

On 5/15/2020 2:05 PM, Donald Kern via CnC-List wrote:

Randy,

Most PHRF rating organizations will adjust (negatively) your rating 
for adding a tack point forward of the "J" measurement of the boat. 
You may receive a credit for both a retrofit application and due to a 
smaller sail area for a spinnaker - depends on the rating rules for 
your PHRF organization.  Also an asymmetrical spinnaker is a free fly 
sail, thus adding a hard furler is not done for an asym.  I do not 
understand why you stated "So I can’t just shackle an asym tack line 
block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and hoist/douse the 
asym using a sock." That should be an option. Lastly, the 30 Mk1 was 
designed to go deep downwind with a symmetrical spinnaker, which would 
have a greater sail area projected to windward an inherently faster 
than a asym rig deep downwind.  The plus side that an asym would give 
your 30 Mk1 would be on reaching legs.  Hope this helps.


Don Kern
Fireball C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI
Commo. PHRF-NB



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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

Now that you mention it I remember the Mockey's 37+ with the Plexiglas
door.

The 34+ has a seat in the shower as well.  It makes a good shelf for stuff
if you use for storage :-)

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 3:26 PM Ken Heaton  wrote:

> Actually, the 37+ (37/40) has a plexiglass shower door, not a curtain. The
> door can open into a shallow recess in the wall, hidden behind the wood
> door in the photo linked below, so it will be completely out of the way
> when you don't need it.
>
> It works very well actually.  And there is a seat in the shower stall too,
> as Edd pointed out.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%26C_37/40#/media/File:C&C_37-40_Heads_Interior.jpg
>
>
> On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 16:06, Francois Rivard via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Joe,
>>
>> Both the 34+ (34/36) and the 37+ (37/40) have separate shower stalls.
>> Both have curtain and all. Amazingly enough even the one in the 34+ is
>> normal human size / comfortable to take a decent shower  / store stuff /
>> house a free standing A/C unit.
>>
>> Also, they have a separate shower sump with pump for direct overboard
>> discharge so that the sudsy water doesn't end-up stinking-up your bilge.
>>
>> -Francois Rivard
>> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
>> Lake Lanier, GA
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
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Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[detroito91 via CnC-List]

Optional on the 38 landfall...separate shower stall. Otherwise shower hose from 
sink connectors.JimSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Doug Mountjoy via CnC-List 
 Date: 5/15/20  11:55 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Doug Mountjoy  Subject: Re: 
Stus-List Best Shower Boat My Landfall 39 has 2 showers. Plus an added one in 
the cockpit. Doug Mountjoysv Rebecca Leah C&C Landfall 39Port Orchard yacht 
club Original message From: "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
 Date: 5/15/20  08:40  (GMT-08:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: "Della Barba, Joe"  Subject: 
Stus-List Best Shower Boat 




If you did not want to rely on taking showers ashore, what C&Cs are best set up 
for onboard showers? I know in theory I could do it now, but it makes a mess out
 of the head and then some. We shower aboard with a hose in the cockpit now.
Landfall 38 maybe? Don’ they have a shower stall?
 
 
Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com

 
 



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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Adding to Michael’s point regarding the loading, I should have added in my note 
to Randy that we always use a reaching strut with the pole set-up.  The loads 
are high and the guy sheeting angle really bad.

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Michael Brown via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 2:52 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Michael Brown 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

 

I have been flying both sym and asym spinnakers on Windburn for the last few 
years.

A small tack point has been added on the bow forward of everything for the 
asym. I found

that using an oversized pole works better, maybe a C&C 30-1 thing. Pulling the 
pole back

a bit and getting some more chute in front generates way more power than 
centerline

tacking. Enough of a difference to make up for sailing a bit deeper.

 

The largest chutes are 195%, about a 26.5' foot on the asym, and 26.3' max 
girth on the sym.

 

The load on the guy is high so the line runs through a snatch block to the 
primary winch.

It is a Samson line with a no stretch core, normal good double braid was a 
problem.

At higher wind speeds the force back through the spinnaker pole has to be 
hundreds of

pounds. I upgraded the spin track and car to the midsize Harken series. Even 
with that

it is dicey adjusting the height while flying. The Torlon bearings appear to go 
slightly

oval each season so that is on the winter maintence replace list.

 

When flying the asym at 100 degrees AWA or tighter in heavier winds the genoa 
does not

depower the spinnaker for take down. If it gets even slightly away from you it 
will fill, sometimes

pretty violently.

 

I am glad the 30-1 is so heavily over built.


Michael Brown

Windburn

C&C 30-1






From: Randy Stafford mailto:randal.staff...@icloud.com> > 
To: cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: 5/15/2020 12:22 PM 
Subject: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I 

Listers- 

A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him to 
the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and dropped me 
like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a one-hour race 
despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating (demonstrating yet 
again that ratings don’t necessarily account for performance differences).  It 
was an eye-opening demonstration. 

So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on a 
30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line block, 
and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this Ranger 28, 
I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the asym) to be 
able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an asym tack line 
block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and hoist/douse the asym using 
a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem to accommodate a furler. 

Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or 
bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did 
some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of course 
wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice or 
recommendations? 

Thanks, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK I #79 
Ken Caryl, CO 

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Re: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I would suggest taking a couple of Quaaludes until you relax a bit, and that 
anxiety goes away. I can only imagine the feeling you must have had when he 
rolled that Asymmetrical out and just left you in the dust. But probably what 
will happen, is that there are going to be questions about Sprint length, The 
Asymmetrical, and whether you can jump back and forth between Asymmetrical and 
Symmetrical without an additional penalty. Then they might change the rules 
that may make him sad.  On our fleet, they allowed 12in, until I brought it up 
that that didn't take into account different lengths of boats, and the amount 
of space you need for an asymmetric furler on a larger boat. Then they made it 
a percentage of length. But only to a certain length.  

Also,  how often do you have triangles, which it sounds like this race was?. in 
our local fleet, we used to have triangles equally interspersed with windward 
leeward's, but then whoever runs the fleet changed it mostly to Windward 
Leeward's, which screws everything up for our type of boats. Obviously the 
people running ours have newer boats like J boats and Shocks and that sort of 
thing. If you can count on triangles, The Asymmetrical might make sense. 
On my 39, we got the biggest bang for the buck by adding a foot onto the boom, 
and a large Roach. That really helped downwind and off the wind. That only cost 
6 seconds, but was well worth it.

Bill Coleman
Erie Pa

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 12:23 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: Randy Stafford
Subject: Stus-List Tacking Down an Asym on a 30 MK I

Listers-

A guy in my yacht club has started an arms race by adding an asym with a 
top-down furler to his Ranger 28.  Wednesday night in light air I beat him to 
the windward mark by a minute or two, then he hoisted his asym and dropped me 
like a bad habit.  He beat me by five minutes corrected time in a one-hour race 
despite spotting me 12 sec/mile with his new adjusted rating (demonstrating yet 
again that ratings don’t necessarily account for performance differences).  It 
was an eye-opening demonstration.

So now I’m thinking I need an asym to compete.  I know a guy who flew one on a 
30 MK I.  He welded a bracket forward of the stem, to fasten a tack line block, 
and had a sock instead of a furler.  If I want to compete with this Ranger 28, 
I’ll have to add two furlers (one on the forestay and one for the asym) to be 
able to set sails as fast as him.  So I can’t just shackle an asym tack line 
block to the spare headsail shackle on the stem, and hoist/douse the asym using 
a sock.  I need a tack point forward of the stem to accommodate a furler.

Thus my question to you listers: any experience with adding a bowsprit or 
bracket etc. to your C&C for tacking down an asymmetrical spinnaker?  I did 
some reading last night on after-market bowsprits (e.g. Selden), but of course 
wanted to check with the collective wisdom on Stu’s list.  Any advice or 
recommendations?

Thanks,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO
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Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[David Risch via CnC-List]

Two things would make Corsair perfect.  Idlsn berth and s seperate shower stall.

Dont say it Edd...

Sent from my Android. Please forgive typos. Thank you.


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Ken Heaton via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 12:50:43 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Ken Heaton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%26C_37/40#/media/File:C&C_37-40_Heads_Interior.jpg

On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 12:48, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Joe,

C&C 37+ — completely separate shower stall with a seat in there too.

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log










On May 15, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

If you did not want to rely on taking showers ashore, what C&Cs are best set up 
for onboard showers? I know in theory I could do it now, but it makes a mess 
out of the head and then some. We shower aboard with a hose in the cockpit now.
Landfall 38 maybe? Don’ they have a shower stall?


Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com


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Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Damn. Censored again.. 

By the way everyone, despite everything you may know about me or my C&C, I had 
absolutely nothing to do with the naming of “Operation Warp Speed.”

 though I do love the name. 

All the best, 

Edd

———-
Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the “Starship Enterprise”
C&C 37+ | Sail No.: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL
www.StarshipSailing.com
———-
914.774.9767   | Mobile
———-
Sent via iPhone 11 Pro
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize


On May 15, 2020, at 6:34 PM, David Risch via CnC-List  
wrote:


Two things would make Corsair perfect.  Idlsn berth and s seperate shower 
stall. 

Dont say it Edd...

Sent from my Android. Please forgive typos. Thank you.

From: CnC-List  on behalf of Ken Heaton via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 12:50:43 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Ken Heaton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%26C_37/40#/media/File:C&C_37-40_Heads_Interior.jpg
  

On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 12:48, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
wrote:
Joe,

C&C 37+ — completely separate shower stall with a seat in there too. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log















On May 15, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:

If you did not want to rely on taking showers ashore, what C&Cs are best set up 
for onboard showers? I know in theory I could do it now, but it makes a mess 
out of the head and then some. We shower aboard with a hose in the cockpit now.
Landfall 38 maybe? Don’ they have a shower stall?
 
 
Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com
 
 
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Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[bwhitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all, another vote for the 37/40+.  The shower and the centerline stern 
berth.  I can post photos later if desired.Bruce Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE 
Device
 Original message From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
 Date: 5/15/20  6:38 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Edd Schillay  Subject: Re: 
Stus-List Best Shower Boat Damn. Censored again.. By the way everyone, 
despite everything you may know about me or my C&C, I had absolutely nothing to 
do with the naming of “Operation Warp Speed.” though I do love the name. 
All the best, Edd———-Edd M. SchillayCaptain of the “Starship 
Enterprise”C&C 37+ | Sail No.: NCC-1701-BVenice Yacht Club | Venice Island, 
FLwww.StarshipSailing.com———-914.774.9767   | 
Mobile———-Sent via iPhone 11 ProiPhone. iTypos. iApologizeOn May 
15, 2020, at 6:34 PM, David Risch via CnC-List  wrote:





Two things would make Corsair perfect.  Idlsn berth and s seperate shower 
stall. 



Dont say it Edd...





Sent from my Android. Please forgive typos. Thank you. 



From: CnC-List  on behalf of Ken Heaton via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 12:50:43 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Ken Heaton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat
 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%26C_37/40#/media/File:C&C_37-40_Heads_Interior.jpg
  



On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 12:48, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
wrote:


Joe,


C&C 37+ — completely separate shower stall with a seat in there too. 








All the best,


Edd





Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL






Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
























On May 15, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:







If you did not want to rely on taking showers ashore, what C&Cs are best set up 
for onboard showers? I know in theory I could do it now, but it makes a mess 
out of the head and
 then some. We shower aboard with a hose in the cockpit now.

Landfall 38 maybe? Don’ they have a shower stall?

 

 

Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I

www.dellabarba.com


 

 



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 everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and every one 
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contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray




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___Thanks everyone for supporting 
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Stus-List Hi

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

Mike,

I was #3 launched and you still have your cover frame on.   What going on?

Rob



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Re: Stus-List Best Shower Boat

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

I am always blown away at how C&C was so far out in front with these cool 
features on a race boat. separate  showers walk thru transom ... great 
stuff!!

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon
S/V Heartbeat
www.flirtingwithfire.com


On May 15, 2020, at 12:51 PM, Ken Heaton via CnC-List  
wrote:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%26C_37/40#/media/File:C&C_37-40_Heads_Interior.jpg

On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 12:48, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Joe,

C&C 37+ — completely separate shower stall with a seat in there too.

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log










On May 15, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

If you did not want to rely on taking showers ashore, what C&Cs are best set up 
for onboard showers? I know in theory I could do it now, but it makes a mess 
out of the head and then some. We shower aboard with a hose in the cockpit now.
Landfall 38 maybe? Don’ they have a shower stall?


Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com


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Stus-List Spinnakers

[Barry Lenoble via CnC-List]

Hello,
Regarding spinnakers for racing - you didn’t write (or maybe I just missed) if 
you are currently using a spinnaker now or not. If you’re currently a Jib and 
Main (JAM) boat and you’re trying to race against spinnaker boats, you will not 
do well (especially in light air). 
If you are JAM and looking to enter the spinnaker fleet then I would suggest 
going to asymm sails over standard square sails, spin pole, up haul, downhaul, 
guys, blah blah blah. 
If you are currently flying a chute then I suggest you spend more time working 
on that before you scrap everything and go to asym sails.
I do most of my racing on a C&C 35. First - listen to Don. I have raced against 
Fireball many times and he knows what he is doing (Don, in case you are reading 
I race on R JMS, the white boat from Port Jefferson, NY). We raced with 
standard spinnakers for years and did well. A few years ago the owner changed 
to asym sails and a Selden sprit, and we have never looked back. Depending on 
conditions, sometimes the asym has an advantage and other times the square 
chute does. But the asym is easier to set, jibe, trim, and douse than the 
square chute. We used to need 6-7 guys to race in breezy conditions. Now we do 
it with 4-5 guys. No pole to worry about, no guys, no worrying about gibing the 
pole, etc. 
Last point, I have never seen a real fast boat use a sock or a furler. I’m sure 
there are some out there, but for a fully crewed boat there is no way a sock or 
furler would be faster than just a standard set and douse. In light to regular 
conditions we douse down the front hatch. Helm steers down, tack line released, 
foredeck grabs tack line and passes to crew in the V Berth. Halyard is eased 
and the chute pulled into the boat. In windy conditions we do a letter box take 
down. I’m usually in the back of the boat tending the main so I can’t tell you 
how exactly we do that one, I try to stay out of the way,
Around here racing is on hold for now and that makes me sad.
Good luck.  Barry
Barry LenobleDeep Blue C - C&C 110Mt. Sinai, NY
Barry. Sent from iPad
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Re: Stus-List Spinnakers

[Donald Kern via CnC-List]

Barry,

Thanks for the vote of confidence and yes I am well aware of R JMS - 
been seeing way too much of her transom !!  Drop by the boat, we will be 
in Mitchell Park Marina for the Fall Off Soundings flying a large Texas 
flag due to my son boarding Fireball with his Viper 830 crew from 
Dallas.  (Given the nanny states lifts the 14 day quarantine restrictions.}


Don Kern
/Fireball/ C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI

On 5/15/2020 10:18 PM, Barry Lenoble via CnC-List wrote:

Hello,

Regarding spinnakers for racing - you didn’t write (or maybe I just 
missed) if you are currently using a spinnaker now or not. If you’re 
currently a Jib and Main (JAM) boat and you’re trying to race against 
spinnaker boats, you will not do well (especially in light air).


If you are JAM and looking to enter the spinnaker fleet then I would 
suggest going to asymm sails over standard square sails, spin pole, up 
haul, downhaul, guys, blah blah blah.


If you are currently flying a chute then I suggest you spend more time 
working on that before you scrap everything and go to asym sails.


I do most of my racing on a C&C 35. First - listen to Don. I have 
raced against Fireball many times and he knows what he is doing (Don, 
in case you are reading I race on R JMS, the white boat from Port 
Jefferson, NY). We raced with standard spinnakers for years and did 
well. A few years ago the owner changed to asym sails and a Selden 
sprit, and we have never looked back. Depending on conditions, 
sometimes the asym has an advantage and other times the square chute 
does. But the asym is easier to set, jibe, trim, and douse than the 
square chute. We used to need 6-7 guys to race in breezy conditions. 
Now we do it with 4-5 guys. No pole to worry about, no guys, no 
worrying about gibing the pole, etc.


Last point, I have never seen a real fast boat use a sock or a furler. 
I’m sure there are some out there, but for a fully crewed boat there 
is no way a sock or furler would be faster than just a standard set 
and douse. In light to regular conditions we douse down the front 
hatch. Helm steers down, tack line released, foredeck grabs tack line 
and passes to crew in the V Berth. Halyard is eased and the chute 
pulled into the boat. In windy conditions we do a letter box take 
down. I’m usually in the back of the boat tending the main so I can’t 
tell you how exactly we do that one, I try to stay out of the way,


Around here racing is on hold for now and that makes me sad.

Good luck.
Barry

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C - C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

Barry. Sent from iPad


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Re: Stus-List Need to replace forward hatch on 35 mkIII

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

The goo was mainly dirt, held together by the remains of butyl. Not sticky
at all, but enough to keep 80% of the water out.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Fri, 8 May 2020 at 07:27, Michael Brannon via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I just removed the hatches on my 36.   As with Jim’s boat they lifted
> right off.   The “goo” on mine was butyl.
>
> Mike.
>
> Mike Brannon
> Virginia Lee 93295
> 1978 C&C 36 CB
> Virginia Beach, VA
>
>
>
>
> On May 8, 2020, at 7:10 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Do you mean the goo was not sticky or that there was none?
>
> Joe
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Jim Watts via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, May 08, 2020 1:34 AM
> *To:* 1 CnC List 
> *Cc:* Jim Watts 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Need to replace forward hatch on 35
> mkIII
>
> Once I had the screws out, the hatch frames just lifted off. They were not
> held on *at all* by goo.
>
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C&C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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