Re: Stus-List Black goo in keel joint - 35-2

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Hi there,

Well, she's on the hard for two weeks, so I'm attending to anything below
the waterline during this time, and puttering on smaller items inside as
well.

The black goo is not water soluble, and seems like a sticky grease. One guy
suggested it could be some of the flexible sealant which didn't set due to
exposure to water or acetone. Both sides of the joint have been faired with
white epoxy, and the goo coincides with a few small voids in the original
layup, so possibly water or a cleaner was trapped in there. If it continued
to ooze out I would be worried, but only a small amount came out when I cut
the sealer out, and then stopped.

Here are some photos showing the hull after pressure washing, and then
after sanding and cleaning out the keel joint.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YRS6RhB6iRCJmm5y9

There are two sections where the epoxy is separating from the keel and lead
corrosion is evident, so it has been suggested that I grind this back to
clean lead and then re-seal with epoxy. I am not sure if I should just make
the whole joint smooth with epoxy, or try to maintain a V shaped gap, and
then seal the gap with Sikaflex in case there is some movement. If there
has been moved, it is minimal, as the old black sealer was in a V gap about
3-5mm wide by 3-5mm deep, and was well bonded both top and bottom before I
cut it out with a knife. The final photos in the album are after I sanded
with a wedge of 80 grit to clean out the joint.

Here is the photo of the section with the epoxy delaminating from the keel:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GMqo3PdtWHk5JuzT8

On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 8:10 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> You're not wasting any time are you?!  Forgive me if you already described
> this boat defect but how bad was the keel joint that you are already
> tearing in to it?  Most people live with a smile for a few years, then
> tighten the bolts and wait another few years, then if needed perform some
> type of additional remediation.
>
> You didn't describe if the goo was water soluble.  All types of biological
> growth and slime occurs when water gets trapped and bilges are subject to
> collect lost of various liquids.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Fri, May 3, 2019, 9:46 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> While cutting out the rubbery sealant between the keel joint on my 35-2,
>> I came across a spot on the starboard side, about 14-16" from the aft end
>> of the keel, where some black goo came out. It has a consistency of grease,
>> with no obvious smell.
>>
>> Any idea what this might be? Perhaps some water in the cavity which
>> prevented the sealant from curing in that area? It only appears in a small
>> 3-4" long section.
>>
>> --
>> Shawn Wright
>> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>

-- 
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
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Re: Stus-List Speed & depth transducers

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Thanks for the info. The fellow I spoke with owns a Landfall 42, and
suggested for the small amount I will need, they should have some at the
club that I can use, rather than buying a whole tin. I will see if it is
G-Flex that they have.

Although I will need to haul again next year for a new survey, I'd prefer
to do this job right this time, and not have to dig into it again. I'm also
planning to check the keel bolt torque. Should I do this before applying
epoxy? The joint seems very tight, with no sign of a smile - just a bit of
lead corrosion at the leading edge. I suppose I could take some of the
weight off the keel with the stands to see if it opens up, but I doubt it
will based on the tight sealant I pulled out.

On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 8:20 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I have not heard of anyone using Sikaflex.  I would recommend G-Flex and
> follow the prescription in the link below.
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yV1JEN3YxQk1RbHc/view?usp=drivesdk
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2019, 10:59 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I spent the day wet-sanding the bottom of Callisto and she is nearly
>> ready for a coat of paint. I also cut out the old keel joint rubbery
>> sealant, in preparation for some Sikaflex 291. I plan to scrub the gap a
>> bit more and clean with lacquer thinner before letting dry.
>>
>> All the through hulls look good, bronze with marelon valves.
>>
>> I have two depth transducers, one for a Standard Horizon DS30, and the
>> other for a Garmin 140 Fishfinder, both working. There is a plug for the
>> old B&G speed sensor, but I was pleased to find another newer speed sensor
>> in good shape, it appears to be a Garmin like this:
>>
>> http://www.airmar.com/productdescription.html?id=103
>>
>> The specs show either a NMEA 2000 or analog cable, but I haven't traced
>> it yet to determine which one I have. Of course, the B&G H1000 system I
>> have only does NMEA 0183, so I will need a signal converter, I think. I'm
>> hesitant to spend any money on the old B&G system until I verify the pieces
>> I have actually work though.
>>
>> Also, the plug for the old B&G sensor is very thin plastic, about 2mm
>> thick. I'm thinking of filling the hollow plug with epoxy so it doesn't
>> sink the boat if it ever cracks. Or maybe just find a better one? It's 1
>> 3/4" diameter.
>>
>> --
>> Shawn Wright
>> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>

-- 
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
___

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Stus-List Prop for 35-2

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

I'm posting this for reference, in case it is helpful to anyone. The prop
on our new 35-2 is a Campbell Sailor 3 blade, marked 14 1/2 RH P16, on a 1"
shaft. It is driven by a 40hp VW diesel, through a Hurth 100 2.5:1
transmission. The engine does not have a tach, but I plan on adding one so
I can see how things compare with engine speed vs: boat speed.

While the shaft overhang is quite long at about 12" beyond the cutlass
bearing and strut, a surveyor looked at it and said he'd seen quite a few
done this way, and didn't feel it was an issue, and the shaft was true. Of
course, if I snag a line, I am more likely to bend something, so I will
exercise care. My only options to reduce the overhang are moving to a long
strut closer to the prop, or installing a smaller prop and shortening the
shaft. I'm at a 16 pitch now, so I don't know if a smaller prop with a
steeper pitch will work. I'll investigate that if the current setup starts
to cause issues.

-- 
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
___

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Re: Stus-List Black goo in keel joint - 35-2

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Shawn,

Since you're hauled out for two weeks, why not do 
the keel joint properly? It will mean using an 
amount of epoxy to warrant purchasing a 2 litre 
pack, some fibre & tape. Leftovers go into 
general storage for cruising projects/repairs.


Remember: cruising is simply the act of 
travelling to some other place to work on your boat. :)


Try a solvent wash on the black goo. If it 
dissolves with a bit of exposure to solvent or 
gasoline then it's probably butyl sealant.


For local epoxy & great customer service I have 
been using Fiber Tek products for bulk epoxy.

https://www.fibertek.ca/product-category/fiberglass-materials/epoxy-resins/aqua-set/

Years ago my fave was Industial Formulatiors but 
they were bought up by Systems Three many years 
ago. The Cold Cure formulation is still the best wet cure repair epoxy, IMHO.


Cheers, Russ
ex-Sweet 35 mk-1

=
Next is a set of instruction from Dennis, provided many year ago.
One thing to add, if you expose fresh lead while 
sanding/grinding it needs an epoxy primer coat 
right away as oxidation starts immediately.
My routine was: at the end of the day I would mix 
a small batch of epoxy and freshly sand any 
exposed lead while the little woman would come 
follow right after and brush on the neat epoxy.


From Dennis:
  Here's the revised, completed reply.

The pics on the photoalbum are of my 35-1, 
Touche'.  I repaired the smile when I bought the 
boat in 1999.  Here's the words to go with the pics.
   * Tighten the keelbolts.  If you don't 
properly torque the bolts, any attempts to fix 
the smile may fail. The torque specs are on the 
photoalbum site under the "Technical Info" 
button.  Keelbolts should be backed off then 
torque dry (without lubrication) to the proper spec.
   * Dig out and loose crumbly keel material at 
the hull/keel joint back to solid material.
   * Preparation is critical.  Rough up the 
fiberglass and make sure all dust and loose particles are removed.
   * Fill the area with thickened epoxy.  You 
can use epoxy thickened with microfibers if the 
gap is fairly narrow (1/4 inch or less).  If the 
gap is wider, I would use epoxy thickened with 
chopped fiber or "kitty hair".  I used chopped 
carbon fiber (whoohoo! high tech!)  If the gap is 
wide, fill in a few layers rather than one large fill.

   * After curing, fair out the repair.
   * I covered the entire hull keel joint with a 
strip of 4 inch biaxial tape and epoxy.
   * I then covered the first layer of tape with 
2 overlapping strips of biaxial tape and 
epoxy.  Probably overkiil if the bolts are properly torqued.

   * Fair out the repair.

This repair has held for 12 years.  I have had a 
fairly hard grounding or two with no noticeable effects.


I am familiar with G-Flex having used it to 
re-attach the floor in an inflatable dinghy 
(worked fairly well).  As this repair involves a 
joint that is under significant compression, I 
think I would want a material that was rigid and did not compress.


Now for the caveats.  This assumes that your 
hull, keel stub, keelbolts, washers, spacers and 
keel top are all in good condition.


If the washers and/or spacers under your keelbolt 
nuts are not stainless, change them now.


A chronic leak could have deteriorated the 
keelbolts.  A friend of mine with a Tartan 33 had 
a chronic leak at the hull/keel joint.  When the 
yard dropped his keel, a few of his keelbolts 
were deteriorated.  The keel was shipped to Mars Metals for bolt replacement.


Problems with the integrity and construction of 
the keel stub have been reports for some 
boats.  I'll let other listers describe these issues.


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
=

At 09:03 AM 5/4/2019, you wrote:
Thanks for the info. The fellow I spoke with 
owns a Landfall 42, and suggested for the small 
amount I will need, they should have some at the 
club that I can use, rather than buying a whole 
tin. I will see if it is G-Flex that they have.


Although I will need to haul again next year for 
a new survey, I'd prefer to do this job right 
this time, and not have to dig into it again. 
I'm also planning to check the keel bolt torque. 
Should I do this before applying epoxy? The 
joint seems very tight, with no sign of a smile 
- just a bit of lead corrosion at the leading 
edge. I suppose I could take some of the weight 
off the keel with the stands to see if it opens 
up, but I doubt it will based on the tight sealant I pulled out.


On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 8:20 PM Josh Muckley via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
I have not heard of anyone using Sikaflex.  I 
would recommend G-Flex and follow the prescription in the link below.


https://dri

Re: Stus-List Prop for 35-2

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Shawn,

I suggest you don't do any improvements to the 
prop or shaft right now. Use her for a year and see how it performs.


Sure, the blade tip clearance looks too small 
(should be 15% of diameter) and the overhang 
looks enormous but why not wait & see?


Moving the strut back is no small deal and 
requires a new (longer) strut or an ugly hull buildup at mounting location.


Nice to have the 2.5:1 tranny. That could easily 
swing a 16 X 16 prop with the old Pathfinder 
diesel... given enough room of course. The 
Campbell Sailor is an excellent choice for a 
cruising boat and your size will be able to put 
something like 25 - 30 HP into the water if you need to.


For prop porn try:
http://www.kiwiprops.co.nz/cms/index.php

I chose one of these for Sweet in considering 
sailing performance AND tip clearance 
considerations. The tips are so far back on the 
hub that I could swing a 15 1/2" prop with the normal space abaft the strut.


Cheers, Russ

Hey! Why aren't you under the boat all dirty and 
grimy on this Saturday morning?





At 09:17 AM 5/4/2019, you wrote:
I'm posting this for reference, in case it is 
helpful to anyone. The prop on our new 35-2 is a 
Campbell Sailor 3 blade, marked 14 1/2 RH P16, 
on a 1" shaft. It is driven by a 40hp VW diesel, 
through a Hurth 100 2.5:1 transmission. The 
engine does not have a tach, but I plan on 
adding one so I can see how things compare with engine speed vs: boat speed.Â


While the shaft overhang is quite long at about 
12" beyond the cutlass bearing and strut, a 
surveyor looked at it and said he'd seen quite a 
few done this way, and didn't feel it was an 
issue, and the shaft was true. Of course, if I 
snag a line, I am more likely to bend something, 
so I will exercise care. My only options to 
reduce the overhang are moving to a long strut 
closer to the prop, or installing a smaller prop 
and shortening the shaft. I'm at a 16 pitch now, 
so I don't know if a smaller prop with a steeper 
pitch will work. I'll investigate that if the 
current setup starts to cause issues.


--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with 
your contributions.  Each and every one is 
greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the 
list - use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___

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Stus-List C&C 35-1 mast step

[Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List]

Looking for advise/photos/instruction on doing a mast step replacement.
Have searched and looked at some previous posts just seeing if there's any
more ideas out there. Also have a small leak around our rudder post, any
ideas as to what can be done to remedy that?

Thanks,
Jeff Helsdingen
Caposhi
1972 C&C 35-1 #54
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Re: Stus-List C&C 35-1 mast step

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

Jeff,

Many 35-1 owners have had to do the mast step job, and each will 
probably have a different approach. Mine was as follows:
There's a stack of plywood layers under the aluminum casting that span 
the bilge sump with a thin layer of glass over it all.   My approach was 
to cut out the plywood and replace it with fiberglass. The problem is 
that the upper layers are too wide to fit through the opening in the 
cabin sole in one piece.  I used a sheet of McMaster Carr fiberglass 
board at the bottom, which was small enough to fit in, then I put down 
about 20 -25 layers of glass cloth in resin, which allows you to fit the 
resin/cloth layers through the opening. (This is doable if you wait in 
between layers long enough for them to set up to the point where you can 
still make a dent in the glass with your thumbnail, but keeps it from 
overheating.)  I figured that was plenty strong, so then I built the 
level back up with smaller pieces of the fiberglass board that would fit 
through and epoxied them in place.


As I say I'm sure there's many was to do this.  It's a simple job in 
concept, just a PITA to work down in the sump under the sole.  My boat 
also had issues with the wood under the forward-most keelbolt, I had to 
put some fiberglass board in there as well.


Feel free to contact me for more info if you go this route.

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY



On 5/4/2019 6:14 PM, Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List wrote:
Looking for advise/photos/instruction on doing a mast step 
replacement. Have searched and looked at some previous posts just 
seeing if there's any more ideas out there. Also have a small leak 
around our rudder post, any ideas as to what can be done to remedy that?


Thanks,
Jeff Helsdingen
Caposhi
1972 C&C 35-1 #54


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Re: Stus-List Speed & depth transducers

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

As I stated previously, most people start with tightening/checking the
torque.  So yes the sequence should be - torque bolts, Sail for a year,
check for smile, if needed dig out a channel for the G-Flex and fill, Sail
for a year, then check for smile, if that still wasn't enough, take more
invasive remediation such as grinning a wide swath for an fiberglass
"bandage" that wraps around the keel, Sail for a year, check for a smile,
if that still wasn't enough then make plans to remove the keel and re-bed
and take additional remedial steps depending on the findings.  The way I
see it, you just bought a used car and on the second day of ownership
decided that the engine needed completely rebuilt.

Sikaflex is a one part polyurethane sealant that is typically used to hold
windshields in cars.  Some owners have had very good results using it to
replace the polycarbonate windows in their boats and hatches.  I've never
heard of anyone using Sikaflex for a keel joint or any other underwater
sealant need.  Despite having flex in the name, G-Flex is completely
different.  It is a 1:1, 2 part epoxy, that comes in 2 separate containers
and that tends to be tougher and less brittle than regular fiberglass layup
epoxy.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Sat, May 4, 2019, 12:04 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the info. The fellow I spoke with owns a Landfall 42, and
> suggested for the small amount I will need, they should have some at the
> club that I can use, rather than buying a whole tin. I will see if it is
> G-Flex that they have.
>
> Although I will need to haul again next year for a new survey, I'd prefer
> to do this job right this time, and not have to dig into it again. I'm also
> planning to check the keel bolt torque. Should I do this before applying
> epoxy? The joint seems very tight, with no sign of a smile - just a bit of
> lead corrosion at the leading edge. I suppose I could take some of the
> weight off the keel with the stands to see if it opens up, but I doubt it
> will based on the tight sealant I pulled out.
>
> On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 8:20 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I have not heard of anyone using Sikaflex.  I would recommend G-Flex and
>> follow the prescription in the link below.
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yV1JEN3YxQk1RbHc/view?usp=drivesdk
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>> On Thu, May 2, 2019, 10:59 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I spent the day wet-sanding the bottom of Callisto and she is nearly
>>> ready for a coat of paint. I also cut out the old keel joint rubbery
>>> sealant, in preparation for some Sikaflex 291. I plan to scrub the gap a
>>> bit more and clean with lacquer thinner before letting dry.
>>>
>>> All the through hulls look good, bronze with marelon valves.
>>>
>>> I have two depth transducers, one for a Standard Horizon DS30, and the
>>> other for a Garmin 140 Fishfinder, both working. There is a plug for the
>>> old B&G speed sensor, but I was pleased to find another newer speed sensor
>>> in good shape, it appears to be a Garmin like this:
>>>
>>> http://www.airmar.com/productdescription.html?id=103
>>>
>>> The specs show either a NMEA 2000 or analog cable, but I haven't traced
>>> it yet to determine which one I have. Of course, the B&G H1000 system I
>>> have only does NMEA 0183, so I will need a signal converter, I think. I'm
>>> hesitant to spend any money on the old B&G system until I verify the pieces
>>> I have actually work though.
>>>
>>> Also, the plug for the old B&G sensor is very thin plastic, about 2mm
>>> thick. I'm thinking of filling the hollow plug with epoxy so it doesn't
>>> sink the boat if it ever cracks. Or maybe just find a better one? It's 1
>>> 3/4" diameter.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shawn Wright
>>> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

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every o

Re: Stus-List Prop for 35-2

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Go sailing!   😏.  It’s survived a lng time the way it is.  Congrats on the 
purchase by the way.

Dave - 33-2





Sent from my iPhone

> On May 4, 2019, at 12:17 PM, Shawn Wright  wrote:
> 
> I'm posting this for reference, in case it is helpful to anyone. The prop on 
> our new 35-2 is a Campbell Sailor 3 blade, marked 14 1/2 RH P16, on a 1" 
> shaft. It is driven by a 40hp VW diesel, through a Hurth 100 2.5:1 
> transmission. The engine does not have a tach, but I plan on adding one so I 
> can see how things compare with engine speed vs: boat speed. 
> 
> While the shaft overhang is quite long at about 12" beyond the cutlass 
> bearing and strut, a surveyor looked at it and said he'd seen quite a few 
> done this way, and didn't feel it was an issue, and the shaft was true. Of 
> course, if I snag a line, I am more likely to bend something, so I will 
> exercise care. My only options to reduce the overhang are moving to a long 
> strut closer to the prop, or installing a smaller prop and shortening the 
> shaft. I'm at a 16 pitch now, so I don't know if a smaller prop with a 
> steeper pitch will work. I'll investigate that if the current setup starts to 
> cause issues.
> 
> -- 
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
___

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Re: Stus-List Black goo in keel joint - 35-2

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

That doesn't appear to me as anything but a typical flexing at the keel
stub which caused the fairing compound to crack away.  The remediation
which you've done looks good.  Use the G-Flex to fill joint level.  G-Flex
is the perfect solution for your situation since it is strong and tough.
You may want to expose a slightly wider areas away from the joint just to
allow for a nice tapered transition.  You'll probably find that more than
one application is needed which is totally fine.  Don't let the previous
application complete cure before applying more for the build up.  If really
needed you can even thicken G-Flex.  Kinda depends on how deep it
ultimately is.  When applying to raw lead, clean the area appropriately and
then use a disposable wire brush to scrub the G-Flex into the raw lead.
Lead oxidizes so quickly that doing it this way cuts into fresh lead and
immediately seals it from oxidizing.  In this manner I imagine a "primer"
coat, lightly cure, followed by a filler coat, lightly cure, followed by a
finish coat.  If you are careful with your trowel and get a clean look from
the filler coat then the finish coat is really just to get a final
smoothness.  While it is still tacky apply your bottom paint of choice.
Doing this gets a good bond with the bottom paint.  Otherwise the paint may
flake of in the areas of the epoxy.  Also remember that you can put hard
paint on hard paint, soft paint in hard, and soft on soft, but not hard on
top of soft.  If the boat already has soft then you really need to select
another soft paint.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Sat, May 4, 2019, 11:58 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Well, she's on the hard for two weeks, so I'm attending to anything below
> the waterline during this time, and puttering on smaller items inside as
> well.
>
> The black goo is not water soluble, and seems like a sticky grease. One
> guy suggested it could be some of the flexible sealant which didn't set due
> to exposure to water or acetone. Both sides of the joint have been faired
> with white epoxy, and the goo coincides with a few small voids in the
> original layup, so possibly water or a cleaner was trapped in there. If it
> continued to ooze out I would be worried, but only a small amount came out
> when I cut the sealer out, and then stopped.
>
> Here are some photos showing the hull after pressure washing, and then
> after sanding and cleaning out the keel joint.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/YRS6RhB6iRCJmm5y9
>
> There are two sections where the epoxy is separating from the keel and
> lead corrosion is evident, so it has been suggested that I grind this back
> to clean lead and then re-seal with epoxy. I am not sure if I should just
> make the whole joint smooth with epoxy, or try to maintain a V shaped gap,
> and then seal the gap with Sikaflex in case there is some movement. If
> there has been moved, it is minimal, as the old black sealer was in a V gap
> about 3-5mm wide by 3-5mm deep, and was well bonded both top and bottom
> before I cut it out with a knife. The final photos in the album are after I
> sanded with a wedge of 80 grit to clean out the joint.
>
> Here is the photo of the section with the epoxy delaminating from the keel:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GMqo3PdtWHk5JuzT8
>
> On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 8:10 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> You're not wasting any time are you?!  Forgive me if you already
>> described this boat defect but how bad was the keel joint that you are
>> already tearing in to it?  Most people live with a smile for a few years,
>> then tighten the bolts and wait another few years, then if needed perform
>> some type of additional remediation.
>>
>> You didn't describe if the goo was water soluble.  All types of
>> biological growth and slime occurs when water gets trapped and bilges are
>> subject to collect lost of various liquids.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>> On Fri, May 3, 2019, 9:46 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> While cutting out the rubbery sealant between the keel joint on my 35-2,
>>> I came across a spot on the starboard side, about 14-16" from the aft end
>>> of the keel, where some black goo came out. It has a consistency of grease,
>>> with no obvious smell.
>>>
>>> Any idea what this might be? Perhaps some water in the cavity which
>>> prevented the sealant from curing in that area? It only appears in a small
>>> 3-4" long section.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shawn Wright
>>> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for suppo

Re: Stus-List Black goo in keel joint - 35-2

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Are you doing this sanding by hand?  The voids you reference look mostly
like fairing compound that chipped off.  Definitely get a hand sander or
even a grinder and don't hesitate to go down to 60 grit.  Feather the
chipped areas back and then fill and fair as previously discussed.  I would
definitely plan on fairing the gap at least 4 inches wide and 6 or 8
wouldn't be unreasonable.  As such, feather back the bottom paint and use a
straight edge to the see what things look like so you can select an
appropriate width putty knife.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Sat, May 4, 2019, 11:58 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Well, she's on the hard for two weeks, so I'm attending to anything below
> the waterline during this time, and puttering on smaller items inside as
> well.
>
> The black goo is not water soluble, and seems like a sticky grease. One
> guy suggested it could be some of the flexible sealant which didn't set due
> to exposure to water or acetone. Both sides of the joint have been faired
> with white epoxy, and the goo coincides with a few small voids in the
> original layup, so possibly water or a cleaner was trapped in there. If it
> continued to ooze out I would be worried, but only a small amount came out
> when I cut the sealer out, and then stopped.
>
> Here are some photos showing the hull after pressure washing, and then
> after sanding and cleaning out the keel joint.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/YRS6RhB6iRCJmm5y9
>
> There are two sections where the epoxy is separating from the keel and
> lead corrosion is evident, so it has been suggested that I grind this back
> to clean lead and then re-seal with epoxy. I am not sure if I should just
> make the whole joint smooth with epoxy, or try to maintain a V shaped gap,
> and then seal the gap with Sikaflex in case there is some movement. If
> there has been moved, it is minimal, as the old black sealer was in a V gap
> about 3-5mm wide by 3-5mm deep, and was well bonded both top and bottom
> before I cut it out with a knife. The final photos in the album are after I
> sanded with a wedge of 80 grit to clean out the joint.
>
> Here is the photo of the section with the epoxy delaminating from the keel:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GMqo3PdtWHk5JuzT8
>
> On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 8:10 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> You're not wasting any time are you?!  Forgive me if you already
>> described this boat defect but how bad was the keel joint that you are
>> already tearing in to it?  Most people live with a smile for a few years,
>> then tighten the bolts and wait another few years, then if needed perform
>> some type of additional remediation.
>>
>> You didn't describe if the goo was water soluble.  All types of
>> biological growth and slime occurs when water gets trapped and bilges are
>> subject to collect lost of various liquids.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>> On Fri, May 3, 2019, 9:46 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> While cutting out the rubbery sealant between the keel joint on my 35-2,
>>> I came across a spot on the starboard side, about 14-16" from the aft end
>>> of the keel, where some black goo came out. It has a consistency of grease,
>>> with no obvious smell.
>>>
>>> Any idea what this might be? Perhaps some water in the cavity which
>>> prevented the sealant from curing in that area? It only appears in a small
>>> 3-4" long section.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shawn Wright
>>> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Black goo in keel joint - 35-2 - +C&C smile fixed

[john sandford via CnC-List]

This may be relevant or not, but I recently (3 years) successfully fixed a
similar issue on my LF38.

In addition, we no longer have a C&C smile.

Have photos but have no idea how to get them visible to folks. Everytime I
tried to get a web based thing, they wanted $$ so I bailed.

 

Years ago, I was chief Engineer on a steam turbine ship and we had a gasket
leak between the LP turbine and the main condenser. Huge problem and
potentially likely weeks alongside while the condenser was dropped and
re-gasketted. GE showed up with a few drills, taps, grease nipples, HP
grease guns and RTV silicone. We were back on charter in 2 days.

Anyway here is the method;

Tools;

 - 4200 In tubes. Have 3 or four on hand. Color not important, but white is
helpful.

 - A small cheap grease gun from Craptyre or PA. Its sacrificial.

 -A number of grease nipples, NPT male thread. 1/8” is fine. (Keel Length /
25mm = Qty)

 - NPT Tap to suit nipple, and tap drill.

 - A long drill around 1/8” x 12” 

 - Acetone

Method;

 -Remove all fairing and crap at the joint, both sides, You want to see
Fiberglass above and lead below the joint.

 - Masking tape plastic sheet to the keel below the joint if you want to
save some work later on.

 - Mark out drill point along the joint, starting at the fwd centre of the
keel, and going down both side of the joint, at 25-35mm spacings.

 - Put a drop cloth under the keel. You will need it later

 - Drill all marks using the long drill bit, through to just over half
thickness of the keel. 

 - Drill and tap only one side of the keel using these holes, and fit grease
nipples.

 - Load the grease gun with Acetone and pump it through all nipples until it
comes out the other side. Don’t smoke while doing this unless your insurance
is paid up.

 - ( I then removed the nipples and blew through with compressed air. If you
don’t have compressed air then just wait for the acetone to evaporate.)

 - Load the grease gun with 4200. Very messy, but stay with it.

 - Pump the 4200 into the grease nipples, and watch the other side. In my
case, the first thing coming out was water and then black goo. Then 4200,
which started out with a grey’ish tint and then got fully white.

 - Continue the full length.

 - Remove the grease nipples, Fill the nipple holes with more 4200

 - Putty knife off the excess and then go for a beer.

 - Drop the Grease gun in the garbage bin on the way out of the yard.

 - Drink beer until the 4200 is very dry.

 - The rest is obvious. You can Antifoul over 4200 and it sticks. Well mine
did. I think I used interprotect/Fibreglass Bottomkote/CSC

 

As I said, I did this 3 years ago and now am fully convinced that this IS
the ultimate smile fix.

Using 4200 keeps a little bit of flex at the joint, unlike fibreglass or
filler. It is waterproof for sure.

 

Hope this helps someone

 

John

 

 

 

From: Russ & Melody [mailto:russ...@telus.net] 
Sent: May-04-19 2:33 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Black goo in keel joint - 35-2

 


Hi Shawn, 

Since you're hauled out for two weeks, why not do the keel joint properly?
It will mean using an amount of epoxy to warrant purchasing a 2 litre pack,
some fibre & tape. Leftovers go into general storage for cruising
projects/repairs.

Remember: cruising is simply the act of travelling to some other place to
work on your boat. :)

Try a solvent wash on the black goo. If it dissolves with a bit of exposure
to solvent or gasoline then it's probably butyl sealant.

For local epoxy & great customer service I have been using Fiber Tek
products for bulk epoxy.
https://www.fibertek.ca/product-category/fiberglass-materials/epoxy-resins/a
qua-set/

Years ago my fave was Industial Formulatiors but they were bought up by
Systems Three many years ago. The Cold Cure formulation is still the best
wet cure repair epoxy, IMHO.

Cheers, Russ
ex- Sweet 35 mk-1


=
Next is a set of instruction from Dennis, provided many year ago. 
One thing to add, if you expose fresh lead while sanding/grinding it needs
an epoxy primer coat right away as oxidation starts immediately. 
My routine was: at the end of the day I would mix a small batch of epoxy and
freshly sand any exposed lead while the little woman would come follow right
after and brush on the neat epoxy. 

>From Dennis:
  Here's the revised, completed reply.

The pics on the photoalbum are of my 35-1, Touche'.  I repaired the smile
when I bought the boat in 1999.  Here's the words to go with the pics. 

1.  Tighten the keelbolts.  If you don't properly torque the bolts, any
attempts to fix the smile may fail. The torque specs are on the photoalbum
site under the "Technical Info" button.  Keelbolts should be backed off then
torque dry (without lubrication) to the proper spec. 
2.  Dig out and loose crumbly keel material at the hull/keel joint back
to solid material. 
3.  Preparation is c

Re: Stus-List Prop for 35-2

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I completely agree with Russ.

In your pictures I saw 3 anodes.  The oldest of them quite close to the
strut.  Some people do this to prevent the shaft from falling out of the
boat in the event of some catastrophic failure at the coupling in the
boat.  Being as close as yours is may obstruct water flow to the cutlass
bearing so moving it back a bit might be appropriate.  3 anodes are
completely unnecessary.  I would remove the oldest one since it is old
anyway.  Remove the forward most new anode and save for later.  When
installing them make sure to tighten evenly and have a hammer nearby to
give 'em a good seating blow on both side a couple of times.  Strike
upwards in line with the strength of the strut to oppose the impact.

Bonus points: I use electrically conductive grease, like that used in house
wiring when working with aluminum wires, to help create and ensure a good
and lasting electrical connection.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Sat, May 4, 2019, 1:53 PM Russ & Melody via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Hi Shawn,
>
> I suggest you don't do any improvements to the prop or shaft right now.
> Use her for a year and see how it performs.
>
> Sure, the blade tip clearance looks too small (should be 15% of diameter)
> and the overhang looks enormous but why not wait & see?
>
> Moving the strut back is no small deal and requires a new (longer) strut
> or an ugly hull buildup at mounting location.
>
> Nice to have the 2.5:1 tranny. That could easily swing a 16 X 16 prop with
> the old Pathfinder diesel... given enough room of course. The Campbell
> Sailor is an excellent choice for a cruising boat and your size will be
> able to put something like 25 - 30 HP into the water if you need to.
>
> For prop porn try:
> http://www.kiwiprops.co.nz/cms/index.php
>
> I chose one of these for *Sweet *in considering sailing performance AND
> tip clearance considerations. The tips are so far back on the hub that I
> could swing a 15 1/2" prop with the normal space abaft the strut.
>
> Cheers, Russ
>
> Hey! Why aren't you under the boat all dirty and grimy on this Saturday
> morning?
>
>
>
>
> At 09:17 AM 5/4/2019, you wrote:
>
> I'm posting this for reference, in case it is helpful to anyone. The prop
> on our new 35-2 is a Campbell Sailor 3 blade, marked 14 1/2 RH P16, on a 1"
> shaft. It is driven by a 40hp VW diesel, through a Hurth 100 2.5:1
> transmission. The engine does not have a tach, but I plan on adding one so
> I can see how things compare with engine speed vs: boat speed.Â
>
> While the shaft overhang is quite long at about 12" beyond the cutlass
> bearing and strut, a surveyor looked at it and said he'd seen quite a few
> done this way, and didn't feel it was an issue, and the shaft was true. Of
> course, if I snag a line, I am more likely to bend something, so I will
> exercise care. My only options to reduce the overhang are moving to a long
> strut closer to the prop, or installing a smaller prop and shortening the
> shaft. I'm at a 16 pitch now, so I don't know if a smaller prop with a
> steeper pitch will work. I'll investigate that if the current setup starts
> to cause issues.
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Black goo in keel joint - 35-2

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Thanks, Josh. On the advice of a club member, I got a scotch brite type
wheel for the angle grinder today and ground the joint down to clean lead
all the way around, which in most cases was just going down 1/2" or so, and
2-3" in the few bad spots. So it sounds like I need to feather it further
by hand, then apply the G-Flex material as you suggested. I didn't get much
else done today due to forgetting too many things so I quit early. Having
the boat 45 minutes away is a pain when you forget things.

No chance of getting G-Flex tomorrow, so I'll probably do the bottom paint
on the upper part of the hull, and finish the keel joint Monday. I planned
to start the paint today, but forget my paint mixer, amongst other little
things that went wrong...

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:39 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Are you doing this sanding by hand?  The voids you reference look mostly
> like fairing compound that chipped off.  Definitely get a hand sander or
> even a grinder and don't hesitate to go down to 60 grit.  Feather the
> chipped areas back and then fill and fair as previously discussed.  I would
> definitely plan on fairing the gap at least 4 inches wide and 6 or 8
> wouldn't be unreasonable.  As such, feather back the bottom paint and use a
> straight edge to the see what things look like so you can select an
> appropriate width putty knife.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
> On Sat, May 4, 2019, 11:58 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Well, she's on the hard for two weeks, so I'm attending to anything below
>> the waterline during this time, and puttering on smaller items inside as
>> well.
>>
>> The black goo is not water soluble, and seems like a sticky grease. One
>> guy suggested it could be some of the flexible sealant which didn't set due
>> to exposure to water or acetone. Both sides of the joint have been faired
>> with white epoxy, and the goo coincides with a few small voids in the
>> original layup, so possibly water or a cleaner was trapped in there. If it
>> continued to ooze out I would be worried, but only a small amount came out
>> when I cut the sealer out, and then stopped.
>>
>> Here are some photos showing the hull after pressure washing, and then
>> after sanding and cleaning out the keel joint.
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/YRS6RhB6iRCJmm5y9
>>
>> There are two sections where the epoxy is separating from the keel and
>> lead corrosion is evident, so it has been suggested that I grind this back
>> to clean lead and then re-seal with epoxy. I am not sure if I should just
>> make the whole joint smooth with epoxy, or try to maintain a V shaped gap,
>> and then seal the gap with Sikaflex in case there is some movement. If
>> there has been moved, it is minimal, as the old black sealer was in a V gap
>> about 3-5mm wide by 3-5mm deep, and was well bonded both top and bottom
>> before I cut it out with a knife. The final photos in the album are after I
>> sanded with a wedge of 80 grit to clean out the joint.
>>
>> Here is the photo of the section with the epoxy delaminating from the
>> keel:
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GMqo3PdtWHk5JuzT8
>>
>> On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 8:10 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You're not wasting any time are you?!  Forgive me if you already
>>> described this boat defect but how bad was the keel joint that you are
>>> already tearing in to it?  Most people live with a smile for a few years,
>>> then tighten the bolts and wait another few years, then if needed perform
>>> some type of additional remediation.
>>>
>>> You didn't describe if the goo was water soluble.  All types of
>>> biological growth and slime occurs when water gets trapped and bilges are
>>> subject to collect lost of various liquids.
>>>
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C&C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 3, 2019, 9:46 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 While cutting out the rubbery sealant between the keel joint on my
 35-2, I came across a spot on the starboard side, about 14-16" from the aft
 end of the keel, where some black goo came out. It has a consistency of
 grease, with no obvious smell.

 Any idea what this might be? Perhaps some water in the cavity which
 prevented the sealant from curing in that area? It only appears in a small
 3-4" long section.

 --
 Shawn Wright
 shawngwri...@gmail.com
 ___

 Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
 and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
 use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

 ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is

Re: Stus-List Black goo in keel joint - 35-2

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I'd feather it back with a electric sander, top and bottom such that you
have equal distance above and below the crack all the way around the keel.
It doesn't have to be deep but this is going to be the width of the faired
and feathered repair.

Josh

On Sat, May 4, 2019, 10:33 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Josh. On the advice of a club member, I got a scotch brite type
> wheel for the angle grinder today and ground the joint down to clean lead
> all the way around, which in most cases was just going down 1/2" or so, and
> 2-3" in the few bad spots. So it sounds like I need to feather it further
> by hand, then apply the G-Flex material as you suggested. I didn't get much
> else done today due to forgetting too many things so I quit early. Having
> the boat 45 minutes away is a pain when you forget things.
>
> No chance of getting G-Flex tomorrow, so I'll probably do the bottom paint
> on the upper part of the hull, and finish the keel joint Monday. I planned
> to start the paint today, but forget my paint mixer, amongst other little
> things that went wrong...
>
> On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:39 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Are you doing this sanding by hand?  The voids you reference look mostly
>> like fairing compound that chipped off.  Definitely get a hand sander or
>> even a grinder and don't hesitate to go down to 60 grit.  Feather the
>> chipped areas back and then fill and fair as previously discussed.  I would
>> definitely plan on fairing the gap at least 4 inches wide and 6 or 8
>> wouldn't be unreasonable.  As such, feather back the bottom paint and use a
>> straight edge to the see what things look like so you can select an
>> appropriate width putty knife.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 4, 2019, 11:58 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> Well, she's on the hard for two weeks, so I'm attending to anything
>>> below the waterline during this time, and puttering on smaller items inside
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> The black goo is not water soluble, and seems like a sticky grease. One
>>> guy suggested it could be some of the flexible sealant which didn't set due
>>> to exposure to water or acetone. Both sides of the joint have been faired
>>> with white epoxy, and the goo coincides with a few small voids in the
>>> original layup, so possibly water or a cleaner was trapped in there. If it
>>> continued to ooze out I would be worried, but only a small amount came out
>>> when I cut the sealer out, and then stopped.
>>>
>>> Here are some photos showing the hull after pressure washing, and then
>>> after sanding and cleaning out the keel joint.
>>>
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/YRS6RhB6iRCJmm5y9
>>>
>>> There are two sections where the epoxy is separating from the keel and
>>> lead corrosion is evident, so it has been suggested that I grind this back
>>> to clean lead and then re-seal with epoxy. I am not sure if I should just
>>> make the whole joint smooth with epoxy, or try to maintain a V shaped gap,
>>> and then seal the gap with Sikaflex in case there is some movement. If
>>> there has been moved, it is minimal, as the old black sealer was in a V gap
>>> about 3-5mm wide by 3-5mm deep, and was well bonded both top and bottom
>>> before I cut it out with a knife. The final photos in the album are after I
>>> sanded with a wedge of 80 grit to clean out the joint.
>>>
>>> Here is the photo of the section with the epoxy delaminating from the
>>> keel:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GMqo3PdtWHk5JuzT8
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 8:10 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 You're not wasting any time are you?!  Forgive me if you already
 described this boat defect but how bad was the keel joint that you are
 already tearing in to it?  Most people live with a smile for a few years,
 then tighten the bolts and wait another few years, then if needed perform
 some type of additional remediation.

 You didn't describe if the goo was water soluble.  All types of
 biological growth and slime occurs when water gets trapped and bilges are
 subject to collect lost of various liquids.

 Josh Muckley
 S/V Sea Hawk
 1989 C&C 37+
 Solomons, MD

 On Fri, May 3, 2019, 9:46 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> While cutting out the rubbery sealant between the keel joint on my
> 35-2, I came across a spot on the starboard side, about 14-16" from the 
> aft
> end of the keel, where some black goo came out. It has a consistency of
> grease, with no obvious smell.
>
> Any idea what this might be? Perhaps some water in the cavity which
> prevented the sealant from curing in that area? It only appears in a small
> 3-4" long section.
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngw

Re: Stus-List Black goo in keel joint - 35-2 - +C&C smile fixed

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Thanks, John, that is a very interesting method for sure!

Just for the record, I don't think I have the standard C&C smile, as there
is no sign of separation of the joint anywhere along the length, just some
areas where there is lead corrosion on the keel, and a few small voids
which appeared on the upper stub which appeared after cutting away the
small amount of sealant. After grinding material away today, there a few
voids perhaps 1" long by 1/8" wide just above the joint, and the material
is a dark grey, unlike the surface fairing which is white.

I'll probably just go with the G-flex and if there are signs of movement in
a year's time, I will dig deeper. Bit in speaking with the previous owner,
this fairing was likely done in 2003 and has held up pretty well for 15
years. Everyone who's look at it has said the joint looks good, including
other C&C owners.



On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:41 PM john sandford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> This may be relevant or not, but I recently (3 years) successfully fixed a
> similar issue on my LF38.
>
> In addition, we no longer have a C&C smile.
>
> Have photos but have no idea how to get them visible to folks. Everytime I
> tried to get a web based thing, they wanted $$ so I bailed.
>
>
>
> Years ago, I was chief Engineer on a steam turbine ship and we had a
> gasket leak between the LP turbine and the main condenser. Huge problem and
> potentially likely weeks alongside while the condenser was dropped and
> re-gasketted. GE showed up with a few drills, taps, grease nipples, HP
> grease guns and RTV silicone. We were back on charter in 2 days.
>
> Anyway here is the method;
>
> Tools;
>
>  - 4200 In tubes. Have 3 or four on hand. Color not important, but white
> is helpful.
>
>  - A small cheap grease gun from Craptyre or PA. Its sacrificial.
>
>  -A number of grease nipples, NPT male thread. 1/8” is fine. (Keel Length
> / 25mm = Qty)
>
>  - NPT Tap to suit nipple, and tap drill.
>
>  - A long drill around 1/8” x 12”
>
>  - Acetone
>
> Method;
>
>  -Remove all fairing and crap at the joint, both sides, You want to see
> Fiberglass above and lead below the joint.
>
>  - Masking tape plastic sheet to the keel below the joint if you want to
> save some work later on.
>
>  - Mark out drill point along the joint, starting at the fwd centre of the
> keel, and going down both side of the joint, at 25-35mm spacings.
>
>  - Put a drop cloth under the keel. You will need it later
>
>  - Drill all marks using the long drill bit, through to just over half
> thickness of the keel.
>
>  - Drill and tap only one side of the keel using these holes, and fit
> grease nipples.
>
>  - Load the grease gun with Acetone and pump it through all nipples until
> it comes out the other side. Don’t smoke while doing this unless your
> insurance is paid up.
>
>  - ( I then removed the nipples and blew through with compressed air. If
> you don’t have compressed air then just wait for the acetone to evaporate.)
>
>  - Load the grease gun with 4200. Very messy, but stay with it.
>
>  - Pump the 4200 into the grease nipples, and watch the other side. In my
> case, the first thing coming out was water and then black goo. Then 4200,
> which started out with a grey’ish tint and then got fully white.
>
>  - Continue the full length.
>
>  - Remove the grease nipples, Fill the nipple holes with more 4200
>
>  - Putty knife off the excess and then go for a beer.
>
>  - Drop the Grease gun in the garbage bin on the way out of the yard.
>
>  - Drink beer until the 4200 is very dry.
>
>  - The rest is obvious. You can Antifoul over 4200 and it sticks. Well
> mine did. I think I used interprotect/Fibreglass Bottomkote/CSC
>
>
>
> As I said, I did this 3 years ago and now am fully convinced that this IS
> the ultimate smile fix.
>
> Using 4200 keeps a little bit of flex at the joint, unlike fibreglass or
> filler. It is waterproof for sure.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps someone
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Russ & Melody [mailto:russ...@telus.net]
> *Sent:* May-04-19 2:33 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Black goo in keel joint - 35-2
>
>
>
>
> Hi Shawn,
>
> Since you're hauled out for two weeks, why not do the keel joint properly?
> It will mean using an amount of epoxy to warrant purchasing a 2 litre pack,
> some fibre & tape. Leftovers go into general storage for cruising
> projects/repairs.
>
> Remember: cruising is simply the act of travelling to some other place to
> work on your boat. :)
>
> Try a solvent wash on the black goo. If it dissolves with a bit of
> exposure to solvent or gasoline then it's probably butyl sealant.
>
> For local epoxy & great customer service I have been using Fiber Tek
> products for bulk epoxy.
>
> https://www.fibertek.ca/product-category/fiberglass-materials/epoxy-resins/aqua-set/
>
> Years ago my fave was Industial Formulatiors but they were bought up by
> Systems Three many years ago. The Cold Cure formulation is still the best