Stus-List Upgrade to 36

[Adam Hayden via CnC-List]

> As an owner of a 1981 36, I can say that we have done some good coastal 
> cruising around Nova Scotia and the Gulf of St Lawrence in all kinds of 
> weather and in some cases the boat was tougher than us and held up very well. 
>  It will depend on the type of cruising you plan.   I do not think it would 
> be a good boat to take south.  Storage is relatively limited as is tankage 
> but for coastal cruising for a couple of weeks at a time it would serve you 
> well.  The other beef I have with the boat is that the engine space is open 
> to the main lazerette so the engine noise is a little louder than I would 
> like.

As for additional room we have had 8 sitting around the table for dinner.

I would also agree with Joe that age isn't necessarily as important as how the 
boat was maintained.   I have seen newer boats that are in pretty rough 
condition that I wouldn't want to sail out of the harbour.  

Adam Hayden



> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:35 PM, Ryan Doyle via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hey everyone,
>> 
>> So the wife and I have been coastal sailing our 30-1 around NY and NJ, and
>> we love her, but of course now that we're more experienced, we're
>> considering taking the jump to some longer distance crusing and we're
>> ***possibly*** looking to sell our beautiful 30-1 that I've worked so hard
>> to restore and move up to a larger boat - ideally with a shallower draft
>> and some nicer amenities.
>> 
>> I've been looking at this 1981 C&C 36.  Ticks a lot of boxes for us...
>> Shallow draft, significantly bigger, a wheel, and a diesel.
>> 
>> I know there are a ton of 36 owners on here.  Anyone have anything to say
>> about this boat good or bad?  Any advice if I go up to look at her?  She
>> definitely appears to need a little TLC, but I'm looking for a bargain with
>> good bones that I can fix up like I did my 30-1.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Ryan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 

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Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36

[Dave via CnC-List]

For sure Joe, there will be much more variance boat to boat, and  anyway it's 
just one man's opinion.  (Well, I suppose two, cuz I agreed).  I.   I won't 
speak for the gentleman, but I remember the context, and the inference was not 
that earlier boats somehow lacked 'quality' relative to later, only that as 
manufacturers, c&c progressed .  (One would hope so, and I'm now comforted he 
did not suggest otherwise!)

 To speak to the original post, Model-specific concerns are probably more 
relevant, as (to your point) is the condition of the specific boat. Really, 
they are all 'old'.

Has blistering been an issue specific to any C&c production periods?   Windstar 
(1985)  has had half-dozen tiny ones pop up, but nothing major.  (Again, To 
your point - my first boat, 1972 vintage, had none, ever, though it had some 
period-correct soggy deck coring - easily repaired in a boat with no hull liner)

Dave 



Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 22:02:32 -0400
From: "Joe Della Barba" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36
Message-ID: <002001d1ff3d$e933a960$bb9afc20$@dellabarba.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I would disagree. C&C has been through enough changes that I would not say they 
have a graph of quality heading only upwards*. It would not take long to find 
older boat X better than newer boat Y. Besides for that, the boats are old 
enough to have had very different lives.



* remember that as of 1970, blisters were a thing that had not yet happened



Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com 

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

Sent from my iPhone___

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Re: Stus-List Re-stus list. Boat buck

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Used to be $100 when we had a c&c designed paceship p23.  Then again that was 
our first boat and I think the boat buck people were trying not to scare us off 
…

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Free Girls 
Sailing via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 5:33 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Free Girls Sailing
Subject: Re: Stus-List Re-stus list. Boat buck

I think it's still $1000.

On Thursday, August 25, 2016, 
svpegasu...@gmail.com via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

entire pump--less than 3 boat bucks (~ $270).



Did someone change the value of a boat buck? I thought it was $1000. Is this 
deflation as opposed to inflation?



Doug Mountjoy

svPegasus

LF38 #4

just west of Ballard, WA.





-- Original message--

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List

Date: Thu, Aug 25, 2016 09:05

To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com;

Cc: cenel...@aol.com;

Subject:Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gm20f - raw H2O pump issue


On my Beta 28, the pump bearings (on the shaft behind the impeller) also have 
O-rings on them on both sides of the bearing and these can leak, especially if 
a bad bearing has 'scored' the shaft.

In my case, IIRC the shaft was scored enough that the entire pump needed 
replacement--the shaft could not reasonably be smoothed out enough for the old 
or new O-rings to seal.

With a new pump in hand (or a rebuilt one?), it was a simple matter to replace 
the entire pump--less than 3 boat bucks (~ $270).

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
'95 C&C 36 XL/kcb
Oriental, NC

cenel...@aol.com


-Original Message-
From: kelly petew via CnC-List 
>
To: cnc-list >
Cc: kelly petew >
Sent: Thu, Aug 25, 2016 10:44 am
Subject: Stus-List Yanmar 2gm20f - raw H2O pump issue
Recently, I discovered my raw water pump was leaking during engine operation.  
So, I replaced the impeller [old one looked perfect after extraction] and the 
"O" ring seal.

After renewal of impeller and "O" ring, I ran engine about 2 to 3 hours, and no 
leakage was observed.
However, yesterday, it was leaking at about 10 to 20 drips per minute while 
motoring.

Are these pumps similar to an automobile water pump?  That is, when the auto 
pump's bearing fails, it starts to leak?
Is the leakage telling me that I have a bad bearing in this pump??

Thanks,


Pete W.
Siren Song
'91 C&C30-2
Deltaville, Va.


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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
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greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Re-stus list. Boat buck

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

We used to say a boat buck was $100 and an AMU (Aviation Maintenance Unit) was 
10 boat bucks.
(At work someone was going on about how their neighbor bought some kind of boat 
and it needed a *$300 repair*. I think I said I would be on my knees 
thanking God for a yard bill that small)
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 8:24 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike
Subject: Re: Stus-List Re-stus list. Boat buck

Used to be $100 when we had a c&c designed paceship p23.  Then again that was 
our first boat and I think the boat buck people were trying not to scare us off 
…

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Free Girls 
Sailing via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 5:33 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Free Girls Sailing
Subject: Re: Stus-List Re-stus list. Boat buck

I think it's still $1000.

On Thursday, August 25, 2016, 
svpegasu...@gmail.com via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

entire pump--less than 3 boat bucks (~ $270).



Did someone change the value of a boat buck? I thought it was $1000. Is this 
deflation as opposed to inflation?



Doug Mountjoy

svPegasus

LF38 #4

just west of Ballard, WA.





-- Original message--

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List

Date: Thu, Aug 25, 2016 09:05

To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com;

Cc: cenel...@aol.com;

Subject:Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gm20f - raw H2O pump issue


On my Beta 28, the pump bearings (on the shaft behind the impeller) also have 
O-rings on them on both sides of the bearing and these can leak, especially if 
a bad bearing has 'scored' the shaft.

In my case, IIRC the shaft was scored enough that the entire pump needed 
replacement--the shaft could not reasonably be smoothed out enough for the old 
or new O-rings to seal.

With a new pump in hand (or a rebuilt one?), it was a simple matter to replace 
the entire pump--less than 3 boat bucks (~ $270).

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
'95 C&C 36 XL/kcb
Oriental, NC

cenel...@aol.com


-Original Message-
From: kelly petew via CnC-List 
>
To: cnc-list >
Cc: kelly petew >
Sent: Thu, Aug 25, 2016 10:44 am
Subject: Stus-List Yanmar 2gm20f - raw H2O pump issue
Recently, I discovered my raw water pump was leaking during engine operation.  
So, I replaced the impeller [old one looked perfect after extraction] and the 
"O" ring seal.

After renewal of impeller and "O" ring, I ran engine about 2 to 3 hours, and no 
leakage was observed.
However, yesterday, it was leaking at about 10 to 20 drips per minute while 
motoring.

Are these pumps similar to an automobile water pump?  That is, when the auto 
pump's bearing fails, it starts to leak?
Is the leakage telling me that I have a bad bearing in this pump??

Thanks,


Pete W.
Siren Song
'91 C&C30-2
Deltaville, Va.


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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!
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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Re-stus list. Boat buck

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

Easy to remember, as: B.O.A.T. = Break_Out_Another_Thousand :-)

Bill Bina

On 8/26/2016 8:23 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:


Used to be $100 when we had a c&c designed paceship p23. Then again 
that was our first boat and I think the boat buck people were trying 
not to scare us off …


*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Free Girls Sailing via CnC-List

*Sent:* Thursday, August 25, 2016 5:33 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Free Girls Sailing
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re-stus list. Boat buck

I think it's still $1000.

On Thursday, August 25, 2016, svpegasu...@gmail.com 
 via CnC-List > wrote:


entire pump--less than 3 boat bucks (~ $270).

Did someone change the value of a boat buck? I thought it was $1000. 
Is this deflation as opposed to inflation?


Doug Mountjoy

svPegasus

LF38 #4

just west of Ballard, WA.




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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Re-stus list. Boat buck

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

I was just having a conversation about this over the weekend and it 
seems that ny boat buck units are now about $3,000.00  LOL


everything is $3,000!  Not really the $1k unit still stands it just 
doesn't get as much!  LMAO


Danny


On 8/26/2016 8:23 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:


Used to be $100 when we had a c&c designed paceship p23. Then again 
that was our first boat and I think the boat buck people were trying 
not to scare us off …


*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Free Girls Sailing via CnC-List

*Sent:* Thursday, August 25, 2016 5:33 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Free Girls Sailing
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re-stus list. Boat buck

I think it's still $1000.

On Thursday, August 25, 2016, svpegasu...@gmail.com 
 via CnC-List > wrote:


entire pump--less than 3 boat bucks (~ $270).

Did someone change the value of a boat buck? I thought it was $1000. 
Is this deflation as opposed to inflation?


Doug Mountjoy

svPegasus

LF38 #4

just west of Ballard, WA.

-- Original message--

*From: *Charlie Nelson via CnC-List

*Date: *Thu, Aug 25, 2016 09:05

*To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
;


*Cc: *cenel...@aol.com ;

*Subject:*Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gm20f - raw H2O pump issue

On my Beta 28, the pump bearings (on the shaft behind the impeller) 
also have O-rings on them on both sides of the bearing and these can 
leak, especially if a bad bearing has 'scored' the shaft.


In my case, IIRC the shaft was scored enough that the entire pump 
needed replacement--the shaft could not reasonably be smoothed out 
enough for the old or new O-rings to seal.


With a new pump in hand (or a rebuilt one?), it was a simple matter to 
replace the entire pump--less than 3 boat bucks (~ $270).


Charlie Nelson

Water Phantom

'95 C&C 36 XL/kcb

Oriental, NC

cenel...@aol.com 

-Original Message-
From: kelly petew via CnC-List > 

To: cnc-list > 

Cc: kelly petew > 


Sent: Thu, Aug 25, 2016 10:44 am
Subject: Stus-List Yanmar 2gm20f - raw H2O pump issue

Recently, I discovered my raw water pump was leaking during engine 
operation.  So, I replaced the impeller [old one looked perfect after 
extraction] and the "O" ring seal.


After renewal of impeller and "O" ring, I ran engine about 2 to 3 
hours, and no leakage was observed.
However, yesterday, it was leaking at about 10 to 20 drips per minute 
while motoring.


Are these pumps similar to an automobile water pump?  That is, when 
the auto pump's bearing fails, it starts to leak?

Is the leakage telling me that I have a bad bearing in this pump??

Thanks,


Pete W.
Siren Song
'91 C&C30-2
Deltaville, Va.

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If 
you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All 
Contributions are greatly appreciated!




___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Our former port had 2.5 feet to get in channel at moon low tide.  We sailed for 
years with Hinterhoeller Niagara 26 at 4' draft and then for a bunch more years 
with J27 at 4.9 foot draft.  That same marina had a C&C 99 (5.5ft) for years 
and currently has a C&C 34, a C&C 35-1, a C&C 35-3 and a number of the C&C30s.  
We visited this summer with current boat (6.25 ft).  So long as you pay 
attention to the tides it is not an issue.  The C&C 30 with its shallow keel 
seems very well suited to the area as it only draws 5' and the keel shape is 
good for bouncing over objects 

As to the 1981 C&C 36?  Our family bought the standard keel 1981 model new in 
Fall 1980 and had it for 9 seasons.  The interior is very similar to the C&C 
35-3.  A big feature was standing headroom for my 6'3" father and bunks for 6 
(we had a large family).  We never found the boat particularly tender but then 
we did not sail on many other mid 30 foot boats at the time so did not have a 
frame of reference.  Compared to our later Niagara 26 I would call the 36 
stiff.  I always thought it was a wonderful boat and our thinking at the time 
it was discontinued for the 35-3 was that the 29-2, 35-3 and 27-V replaced the 
larger 30, 36 and 27-4 as a way to sell a less expensive boat to the same 
market.

All these old boats are good but they are indeed old.  I would suggest you find 
the one with the best access to engine and most comfortable interior combined 
with evidence it has been much loved over its life (new sails, instruments, 
cushions etc ).  These boats we are discussing are all ancient and the 
engines will require constant maintenance and repair.  Our 3GM30F on or Frers 
33 is jammed into an extremely small area with horrible access and yet I have 
been forced to work on or around it a number of times over the past 3 seasons.  
OTOH the sail inventory is quite new as are the instruments, windows and many 
other features that tell me that each of the previous 3 owners lavished the 
boat and this attention would cover all aspects of its maintenance

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 5:44 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Ryan Doyle
Subject: Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

Thanks guys.  The wife is actually focusing in on Landfall 38's, but they are 
pricier.  Although, they do seem better suited to cruising.  

Regarding draft - my home port is on the Barnegat Bay where when you tell 
people you have a 5' draft they say "oh wow... so you a deep draft boat..."  
I've survived with a 5' draft long enough though, and the landfall 38 is 4'11". 
 Every inch helps on the barnegat!

Going to take a hard look now at the landfall 35 and 38 as well..  Thanks guys. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 25, 2016, at 4:33 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Re:  Possible upgrade to a C&C 36

___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Good suggestions.
In today's market, I would be looking for a well-loved boat that does NOT need 
engine, sails, or cushions. If you have to do all three the boat would need to 
be nearly free for it make sense.
If you go old school, this is 4'3" board up:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1970/C%26C-Yachts-Crusader-40-2968402/Manchester-by-the-Sea/MA/United-States#.V8A5G4f2ZDw

I would pick a good 36 over a bad LF38 and vice versa. We have a lot of LF38 
expertise on this list. One thing I know is a PITA with them is the 
foamed-in-place fuel tank will eventually leak and it is not easy to get out. 
My tank rusted through too, but on the 35 MK I tank removal is a 15 minute job 
and it is a standard size available at West Marine. I am on my third engine and 
the 35 MK I is an easy boat for changing engines. It takes about an hour to get 
the engine out myself using ship's tackle. The LF38 is a bit trickier with the 
V-drive.

Joe
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 8:37 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike
Subject: Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

Our former port had 2.5 feet to get in channel at moon low tide.  We sailed for 
years with Hinterhoeller Niagara 26 at 4' draft and then for a bunch more years 
with J27 at 4.9 foot draft.  That same marina had a C&C 99 (5.5ft) for years 
and currently has a C&C 34, a C&C 35-1, a C&C 35-3 and a number of the C&C30s.  
We visited this summer with current boat (6.25 ft).  So long as you pay 
attention to the tides it is not an issue.  The C&C 30 with its shallow keel 
seems very well suited to the area as it only draws 5' and the keel shape is 
good for bouncing over objects 

As to the 1981 C&C 36?  Our family bought the standard keel 1981 model new in 
Fall 1980 and had it for 9 seasons.  The interior is very similar to the C&C 
35-3.  A big feature was standing headroom for my 6'3" father and bunks for 6 
(we had a large family).  We never found the boat particularly tender but then 
we did not sail on many other mid 30 foot boats at the time so did not have a 
frame of reference.  Compared to our later Niagara 26 I would call the 36 
stiff.  I always thought it was a wonderful boat and our thinking at the time 
it was discontinued for the 35-3 was that the 29-2, 35-3 and 27-V replaced the 
larger 30, 36 and 27-4 as a way to sell a less expensive boat to the same 
market.

All these old boats are good but they are indeed old.  I would suggest you find 
the one with the best access to engine and most comfortable interior combined 
with evidence it has been much loved over its life (new sails, instruments, 
cushions etc ).  These boats we are discussing are all ancient and the 
engines will require constant maintenance and repair.  Our 3GM30F on or Frers 
33 is jammed into an extremely small area with horrible access and yet I have 
been forced to work on or around it a number of times over the past 3 seasons.  
OTOH the sail inventory is quite new as are the instruments, windows and many 
other features that tell me that each of the previous 3 owners lavished the 
boat and this attention would cover all aspects of its maintenance

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 5:44 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Ryan Doyle
Subject: Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

Thanks guys.  The wife is actually focusing in on Landfall 38's, but they are 
pricier.  Although, they do seem better suited to cruising.  

Regarding draft - my home port is on the Barnegat Bay where when you tell 
people you have a 5' draft they say "oh wow... so you a deep draft boat..."  
I've survived with a 5' draft long enough though, and the landfall 38 is 4'11". 
 Every inch helps on the barnegat!

Going to take a hard look now at the landfall 35 and 38 as well..  Thanks guys. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 25, 2016, at 4:33 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Re:  Possible upgrade to a C&C 36

___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Exactly

A boat with original 1970s or 1980s instruments with some not working and very 
old sails shows me a boat that has not had money spent on it by an owner that 
either absolutely cannot afford it or one who is cheap and content to use up 
what previous owners paid for.  That boat will likely also sufer from 
inadequate maintenance on engine and other key systems.

The Crusader that Joe linked to is an example of the opposite.  In addition to 
being a very handsome design there are indications all over that boat that 
continuous upgrades have taken place.  The engine panel and engine look like a 
recent repower.  The instruments are recent and the galley has been overhauled 
with both refrigeration and stove replaced.  That is one very nice looking boat!

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, 
Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 9:51 AM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

Good suggestions.
In today's market, I would be looking for a well-loved boat that does NOT need 
engine, sails, or cushions. If you have to do all three the boat would need to 
be nearly free for it make sense.
If you go old school, this is 4'3" board up:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1970/C%26C-Yachts-Crusader-40-2968402/Manchester-by-the-Sea/MA/United-States#.V8A5G4f2ZDw

I would pick a good 36 over a bad LF38 and vice versa. We have a lot of LF38 
expertise on this list. One thing I know is a PITA with them is the 
foamed-in-place fuel tank will eventually leak and it is not easy to get out. 
My tank rusted through too, but on the 35 MK I tank removal is a 15 minute job 
and it is a standard size available at West Marine. I am on my third engine and 
the 35 MK I is an easy boat for changing engines. It takes about an hour to get 
the engine out myself using ship's tackle. The LF38 is a bit trickier with the 
V-drive.

Joe
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 8:37 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike
Subject: Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

Our former port had 2.5 feet to get in channel at moon low tide.  We sailed for 
years with Hinterhoeller Niagara 26 at 4' draft and then for a bunch more years 
with J27 at 4.9 foot draft.  That same marina had a C&C 99 (5.5ft) for years 
and currently has a C&C 34, a C&C 35-1, a C&C 35-3 and a number of the C&C30s.  
We visited this summer with current boat (6.25 ft).  So long as you pay 
attention to the tides it is not an issue.  The C&C 30 with its shallow keel 
seems very well suited to the area as it only draws 5' and the keel shape is 
good for bouncing over objects 

As to the 1981 C&C 36?  Our family bought the standard keel 1981 model new in 
Fall 1980 and had it for 9 seasons.  The interior is very similar to the C&C 
35-3.  A big feature was standing headroom for my 6'3" father and bunks for 6 
(we had a large family).  We never found the boat particularly tender but then 
we did not sail on many other mid 30 foot boats at the time so did not have a 
frame of reference.  Compared to our later Niagara 26 I would call the 36 
stiff.  I always thought it was a wonderful boat and our thinking at the time 
it was discontinued for the 35-3 was that the 29-2, 35-3 and 27-V replaced the 
larger 30, 36 and 27-4 as a way to sell a less expensive boat to the same 
market.

All these old boats are good but they are indeed old.  I would suggest you find 
the one with the best access to engine and most comfortable interior combined 
with evidence it has been much loved over its life (new sails, instruments, 
cushions etc ).  These boats we are discussing are all ancient and the 
engines will require constant maintenance and repair.  Our 3GM30F on or Frers 
33 is jammed into an extremely small area with horrible access and yet I have 
been forced to work on or around it a number of times over the past 3 seasons.  
OTOH the sail inventory is quite new as are the instruments, windows and many 
other features that tell me that each of the previous 3 owners lavished the 
boat and this attention would cover all aspects of its maintenance

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 5:44 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Ryan Doyle
Subject: Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

Thanks guys.  The wife is actually focusing in on Landfall 38's, but they are 
pricier.  Although, they do seem better suited to cruising.  

Regarding draft - my home port is on the Barnegat Bay where when you tell 
people you have a 5' draft they say "oh wow... so you a deep draft boat..."  
I've survived wit

Re: Stus-List Re-stus list. Boat buck

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Or, "Broken Or About To…”   :^)

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Aug 26, 2016, at 7:30 AM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Easy to remember, as: B.O.A.T. = Break_Out_Another_Thousand :-)
> 
> Bill Bina
> 

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Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

I would seriously consider that Crusader - she is a beauty!
Looking through Yachtworld, you see boats that look like they have been
abandoned for years. You could at least clean the thing. One I wish I had
saved the link to had an unflushed dump in the head!

Joe Della Barba
j...@dellabarba.com

Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 9:01 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

Exactly

A boat with original 1970s or 1980s instruments with some not working and
very old sails shows me a boat that has not had money spent on it by an
owner that either absolutely cannot afford it or one who is cheap and
content to use up what previous owners paid for.  That boat will likely also
sufer from inadequate maintenance on engine and other key systems.

The Crusader that Joe linked to is an example of the opposite.  In addition
to being a very handsome design there are indications all over that boat
that continuous upgrades have taken place.  The engine panel and engine look
like a recent repower.  The instruments are recent and the galley has been
overhauled with both refrigeration and stove replaced.  That is one very
nice looking boat!

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della
Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 9:51 AM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

Good suggestions.
In today's market, I would be looking for a well-loved boat that does NOT
need engine, sails, or cushions. If you have to do all three the boat would
need to be nearly free for it make sense.
If you go old school, this is 4'3" board up:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1970/C%26C-Yachts-Crusader-40-2968402/Manche
ster-by-the-Sea/MA/United-States#.V8A5G4f2ZDw

I would pick a good 36 over a bad LF38 and vice versa. We have a lot of LF38
expertise on this list. One thing I know is a PITA with them is the
foamed-in-place fuel tank will eventually leak and it is not easy to get
out. My tank rusted through too, but on the 35 MK I tank removal is a 15
minute job and it is a standard size available at West Marine. I am on my
third engine and the 35 MK I is an easy boat for changing engines. It takes
about an hour to get the engine out myself using ship's tackle. The LF38 is
a bit trickier with the V-drive.

Joe
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 8:37 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike
Subject: Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

Our former port had 2.5 feet to get in channel at moon low tide.  We sailed
for years with Hinterhoeller Niagara 26 at 4' draft and then for a bunch
more years with J27 at 4.9 foot draft.  That same marina had a C&C 99
(5.5ft) for years and currently has a C&C 34, a C&C 35-1, a C&C 35-3 and a
number of the C&C30s.  We visited this summer with current boat (6.25 ft).
So long as you pay attention to the tides it is not an issue.  The C&C 30
with its shallow keel seems very well suited to the area as it only draws 5'
and the keel shape is good for bouncing over objects 

As to the 1981 C&C 36?  Our family bought the standard keel 1981 model new
in Fall 1980 and had it for 9 seasons.  The interior is very similar to the
C&C 35-3.  A big feature was standing headroom for my 6'3" father and bunks
for 6 (we had a large family).  We never found the boat particularly tender
but then we did not sail on many other mid 30 foot boats at the time so did
not have a frame of reference.  Compared to our later Niagara 26 I would
call the 36 stiff.  I always thought it was a wonderful boat and our
thinking at the time it was discontinued for the 35-3 was that the 29-2,
35-3 and 27-V replaced the larger 30, 36 and 27-4 as a way to sell a less
expensive boat to the same market.

All these old boats are good but they are indeed old.  I would suggest you
find the one with the best access to engine and most comfortable interior
combined with evidence it has been much loved over its life (new sails,
instruments, cushions etc ).  These boats we are discussing are all
ancient and the engines will require constant maintenance and repair.  Our
3GM30F on or Frers 33 is jammed into an extremely small area with horrible
access and yet I have been forced to work on or around it a number of times
over the past 3 seasons.  OTOH the sail inventory is quite new as are the
instruments, windows and many other features that tell me that each of the
previous 3 owners lavished the boat and this attention would cover all
aspects of its maintenance

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cn

Re: Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40

[David via CnC-List]

Bruno,

Did that boat come from Buzzards Bay?

David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 22:08:20 -0600
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: bmannsber...@outlook.com









Yes she is a very nice boat. Like any boat, there are definitely things that 
need to be done. Speaking of which, the Britt Chance keel is due to be repaired 
next winter. Thanks for the note about the archived drawings,
 I was not aware of them, I will definitely look them up since we are slowly 
restoring her, with the hopes of getting her back into a racing condition. If 
anyone knows any of her history, I would appreciate it.
 
Bruno Mannsberger

Wave Train | C&C 37/40R

Ladysmith, BC
 

From: Ken Heaton via CnC-List

Sent: August 25, 2016 10:29 AM

To: cnc-list

Cc: Ken Heaton

Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40

 


Kevin,



You should see what the keel on Wave Train looks like, a Britt Chance designed 
racing bulb keel (aluminum & lead), one of a kind.



Actually, this boat was extensively customized at the factory for the first 
owner during the initial build.  Things like heavier bulkheads, all tabbed to 
the overhead (coach roof), a different layout inside, and so on.



The Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston has blueprints specific to 
this custom "Wave Train" 37R in its archives showing the modifications 
requested by the first owner, Prof. Watt E. Webb.



Ken H.













On 25 August 2016 at 13:10, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List
 wrote:


I googled Bruno's 37/40R (as the 37/40xl is a "maybe someday" boat for us) and 
this is what I came up with: http://www.phrfne.org/html/boats/cc37.htm It's
 a briefing on ratings for 37/40's. 



The very last line is this:

"Be careful with a boat called WAVE TRAIN. Just about everything is different 
with this 
boat."
Sounds like you have a special boat Bruno!



KD 
30-2








On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:01 AM Bruno Mannsberger via CnC-List 
 wrote:





On ours, there is a through deck block that is inset within the boom so that 
the exit of the block lines up just below the centre of the boom. The main 
sheet is protected from the boom cut out by a stainless steel guard
 that is shown in the picture. Chaffing is a definite possibility based on the 
design.

 
Bruno Mannsberger
C&C37/40 R
Wave Train
Ladysmith BC
 
 

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List

Sent: August 25, 2016 7:33 AM

To: C&C List

Cc: Josh Muckley

Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40

 




Evidently not the same on all 37+ or 37/40s.  Mine doesn't look anything like 
that.  I can't quite tell from the picture where the chafe is occurring but it 
kinda looks like the entry box (the place where it enters the boom on the right 
side of
 the picture) is missing a sheave.
Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C&C 37+

Solomons, MD
On Aug 24, 2016 6:41 PM, "Brian Fry via CnC-List"  wrote:


My mainsheet enters the boom and is chafing at the entry point. There is 
another small block aft the pulls on the main sheet and seems to be causing

The chafe. Is this standard on other C&Cs?




http://i.imgur.com/tLfmXHf.jpg




Brian Fry 

La Neige

Havre de Grace MD


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___



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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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___



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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!












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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated! ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

[Ryan Doyle via CnC-List]

Wow... That Crusader is gorgeous.  Look at those overhangs.


Sent from my iPhone

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36 - now also landfall 38

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

When considering a Crusader, look carefully at the shroud chain plates.  I
worked aloft on one several years ago and the chain plates didn't look
good.  Might need replacing.

Dennis C.

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ryan Doyle via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Wow... That Crusader is gorgeous.  Look at those overhangs.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36.

[Mitchell's via CnC-List]

Ryan, The 81 36KCB is a great boat. I had one for 10 years. It's about 4 foot 2 
inch draft despite what the C&C brochure said. Sails well with board up if 
necessary. You will need to seal the cast iron board specially in salt water, I 
would get a bigger wheel (42) and install spinnaker winches. It sailed well and 
would go anywhere. I've sailed a 29 and a 30-1 both great boats but they lack 
interior space the 36 has. You will find it a lot stiffer than the 30. That's a 
great price if it's in good condition. You would sail past a lot of new 36 and 
bigger boats if racing. The older C&Cs will last forever if kept well. 36KCB 
would make a great boat for the Bahamas too! 
Len Mitchell
Crazy Legs
89 37+
Sent from my mobile device.

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40

[Bruno Mannsberger via CnC-List]

I believe so. I got the boat from Hamilton ON, however I have a 2007 Survey 
from Bevans Marine and the boat was in Marion at the time.

Bruno Mannsberger
Wave Train | C&C 37/40R
Ladysmith, BC

From: David via CnC-List
Sent: August 26, 2016 8:10 AM
To: CNC CNC
Cc: David
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40

Bruno,

Did that boat come from Buzzards Bay?

David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 22:08:20 -0600
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: bmannsber...@outlook.com









Yes she is a very nice boat. Like any boat, there are definitely things that 
need to be done. Speaking of which, the Britt Chance keel is due to be repaired 
next winter. Thanks for the note about the archived drawings,
 I was not aware of them, I will definitely look them up since we are slowly 
restoring her, with the hopes of getting her back into a racing condition. If 
anyone knows any of her history, I would appreciate it.

Bruno Mannsberger

Wave Train | C&C 37/40R

Ladysmith, BC


From: Ken Heaton via CnC-List

Sent: August 25, 2016 10:29 AM

To: cnc-list

Cc: Ken Heaton

Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40




Kevin,



You should see what the keel on Wave Train looks like, a Britt Chance designed 
racing bulb keel (aluminum & lead), one of a kind.



Actually, this boat was extensively customized at the factory for the first 
owner during the initial build.  Things like heavier bulkheads, all tabbed to 
the overhead (coach roof), a different layout inside, and so on.



The Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston has blueprints specific to 
this custom "Wave Train" 37R in its archives showing the modifications 
requested by the first owner, Prof. Watt E. Webb.



Ken H.













On 25 August 2016 at 13:10, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List
 wrote:


I googled Bruno's 37/40R (as the 37/40xl is a "maybe someday" boat for us) and 
this is what I came up with: http://www.phrfne.org/html/boats/cc37.htm It's
 a briefing on ratings for 37/40's.



The very last line is this:

"Be careful with a boat called WAVE TRAIN. Just about everything is different 
with this
boat."
Sounds like you have a special boat Bruno!



KD
30-2








On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:01 AM Bruno Mannsberger via CnC-List 
 wrote:





On ours, there is a through deck block that is inset within the boom so that 
the exit of the block lines up just below the centre of the boom. The main 
sheet is protected from the boom cut out by a stainless steel guard
 that is shown in the picture. Chaffing is a definite possibility based on the 
design.


Bruno Mannsberger
C&C37/40 R
Wave Train
Ladysmith BC



From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List

Sent: August 25, 2016 7:33 AM

To: C&C List

Cc: Josh Muckley

Subject: Re: Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40






Evidently not the same on all 37+ or 37/40s.  Mine doesn't look anything like 
that.  I can't quite tell from the picture where the chafe is occurring but it 
kinda looks like the entry box (the place where it enters the boom on the right 
side of
 the picture) is missing a sheave.
Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C&C 37+

Solomons, MD
On Aug 24, 2016 6:41 PM, "Brian Fry via CnC-List"  wrote:


My mainsheet enters the boom and is chafing at the entry point. There is 
another small block aft the pulls on the main sheet and seems to be causing

The chafe. Is this standard on other C&Cs?




http://i.imgur.com/tLfmXHf.jpg




Brian Fry

La Neige

Havre de Grace MD


___



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___



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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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___



This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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___

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Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36.

[RANDY via CnC-List]

A lot stiffer than the 30? The 36KCB must be one helluva stiff boat then! 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Mitchell's via CnC-List"  
To: "CNC List"  
Cc: "Mitchell's"  
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 8:46:50 AM 
Subject: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36. 

Ryan, The 81 36KCB is a great boat. I had one for 10 years. It's about 4 foot 2 
inch draft despite what the C&C brochure said. Sails well with board up if 
necessary. You will need to seal the cast iron board specially in salt water, I 
would get a bigger wheel (42) and install spinnaker winches. It sailed well and 
would go anywhere. I've sailed a 29 and a 30-1 both great boats but they lack 
interior space the 36 has. You will find it a lot stiffer than the 30. That's a 
great price if it's in good condition. You would sail past a lot of new 36 and 
bigger boats if racing. The older C&Cs will last forever if kept well. 36KCB 
would make a great boat for the Bahamas too! 
Len Mitchell 
Crazy Legs 
89 37+ 
Sent from my mobile device. 

___ 

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greatly appreciated! 

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Stus-List Northeast Rendezvous - Mystic Food Festival

[Robert Gallagher via CnC-List]

Hi,

Just an update for those planning or considering attending this years
gathering at the Mystic Seaport.

The town of Mystic is holding a "Riverside Food Festival" that same
weekend.  Live music and food from over 30 restaurants.  Entry is free,
food tickets are $1 each!

The festival will be at Mystic Riverside Park.  It is about 3/4 of a mile
walk from the Mystic Seaport and there is a large floating dinghy dock
located at the park.

http://www.mysticeats.com

http://mysticdowntown.org

http://cncnortheast.com

Rob Gallagher
HANUMAN
30MKII
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Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

[rjcasciato via CnC-List]

Thanks Rick and Josh...
To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the 
width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.  The 
lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...
So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was 
sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid 
80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual process 
of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very well to her 
rating in PHRF.These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been 
rebuilt at least once by me
We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.
It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.
I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the 
lifelines, etc.
I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..Harken is the obvious 
choice, but I thought there might be an alternative to their pricing..Weight is 
also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make it
Thanks again Ron



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
 Date: 8/26/16  12:18 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Rick Brass  Subject: Re: 
Stus-List New Subject.  Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII 
38ST’s? Those must be huge. I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi 
with Barient 32s (equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I’m in 
the process of upgrading to 32ST’s to make single handing easier.  But even 
with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135 headsail I now 
use is easier, but I can’t imagine that I would want anything smaller unless I 
was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or 110 and not going out in winds 
of 20 apparent or more.  I’ve tried using the Barient 28 secondaries 
(equivalent to Harken 52s) to trim the headsail a few times. The bigger winched 
are noticeably easier. Harken recommends a formula based on sail area to 
calculate the target power ratio of new winches. Based on a 400 sq. ft. 
headsail (100% on our boats) and a pull of 35 pounds on the winch handle, 
Harken 68’s are the right size for our boats. My 135 is 562 sq. ft., which 
means the load on the end of the winch handle can be as high as 60 pounds with 
my current winches. I’d definitely stick with the big winches. So why are you 
replacing your big winches? Are they worn out beyond redemption? Rick 
BrassImzadi  C&C 38 mk 2la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1Washington, NC  From: 
CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rjcasciato via 
CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:34 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Rjcasciato 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII Hoping 
there is some help and advice out there among the group. I’m going to replace 
my primary winches on Impromptu over the winter.  Currently, I have a pair of 
Barient 38ST’s.  While I think it would be nice to try a 3 speed…….I’m sure 
that price is prohibitive. So given the size of the current winches.who has 
had some good experience with other manufacturers and keeping value in mind, 
any recommendations. The boat is used primarily for PHRF racing………but like most 
of , the crew is aging gracefully………..and I’d like to keep it that way. Thanks 
for your input and insight. Ron C.ImpromptuC&C 38MKIIC…..’77___

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Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Those 28s are virtually indistructable but they are heavy. What size are
you going up to?
Joel

On Friday, August 26, 2016, rjcasciato via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Thanks Rick and Josh...
>
> To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the
> width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.
> The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...
>
> So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was
> sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid
> 80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual
> process of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very
> well to her rating in PHRF.
> These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at
> least once by me
>
> We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.
>
> It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.
>
> I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the
> lifelines, etc.
>
> I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..
> Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative
> to their pricing..
> Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make
> it
>
> Thanks again
> Ron
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
>  Original message 
> From: Rick Brass via CnC-List  >
> Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> Cc: Rick Brass  >
> Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>
> 38ST’s? Those must be huge.
>
>
>
> I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s
> (equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I’m in the process of
> upgrading to 32ST’s to make single handing easier.
>
>
>
> But even with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135
> headsail I now use is easier, but I can’t imagine that I would want
> anything smaller unless I was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or
> 110 and not going out in winds of 20 apparent or more.
>
>
>
> I’ve tried using the Barient 28 secondaries (equivalent to Harken 52s) to
> trim the headsail a few times. The bigger winched are noticeably easier.
>
>
>
> Harken recommends a formula based on sail area to calculate the target
> power ratio of new winches. Based on a 400 sq. ft. headsail (100% on our
> boats) and a pull of 35 pounds on the winch handle, Harken 68’s are the
> right size for our boats. My 135 is 562 sq. ft., which means the load on
> the end of the winch handle can be as high as 60 pounds with my current
> winches. I’d definitely stick with the big winches.
>
>
>
> So why are you replacing your big winches? Are they worn out beyond
> redemption?
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> *Imzadi  *C&C 38 mk 2
>
> *la Belle Aurore *C&C 25 mk1
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On
> Behalf Of *Rjcasciato via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:34 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> *Cc:* Rjcasciato  >
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>
>
>
> Hoping there is some help and advice out there among the group.
>
>
>
> I’m going to replace my primary winches on Impromptu over the winter.
> Currently, I have a pair of Barient 38ST’s.  While I think it would be nice
> to try a 3 speed…….I’m sure that price is prohibitive.
>
>
>
> So given the size of the current winches.who has had some good
> experience with other manufacturers and keeping value in mind, any
> recommendations.
>
>
>
> The boat is used primarily for PHRF racing………but like most of , the crew
> is aging gracefully………..and I’d like to keep it that way.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your input and insight.
>
>
>
> Ron C.
>
> Impromptu
>
> C&C 38MKIIC…..’77
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Winch replacement and winch failures

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Well, some of the 28's are indestructible.  The alloy Barient and Barlows
suffer from metal failures.

Failure mode 1 - wallowing out of the pawl sockets.  This can result in the
pawl not operating smoothly or at all.

Failure mode 2 - breaking off of teeth in the drum skirt.  This usually
happens when the headsail flogs violently with a wrap or two on a winch.

Note: I've only seen these failures on alloy winches.  Stainless and
chrome/bronze winches are much more robust.

When Touche' had alloy winches, I kept a spare 28 just in case.  I have
upgraded to chrome/bronze or stainless winches so the spare 28 (non-ST) is
available.  I also have some spare roller bearings for Barient 28 Non-ST's
if anybody needs them.  Sorry, no pawls or springs.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Those 28s are virtually indistructable but they are heavy. What size are
> you going up to?
> Joel
>
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36 has a 
power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I mentioned 
would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55 pounds for my 
135. 

 

The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey 
(though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.

 

You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get 32ST 
conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be able to put 
32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up. The bases on my 
32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s and use them for your 
spinnaker – for which they work well.

 

I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the 
winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the 
grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out to 
the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long winch 
handle is still problematic.

 

Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of 
“winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to upgrade 
the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a spot on one 
of those TV reality shows.

 

Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could exert a 
max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100 pulling up, and 
125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50 pound number). The 
information about selecting winches from the Harken site currently recommends 
keeping the force level around 35 for longer term comfort and a mixed sex crew.

 

BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:

 

(Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X 6) 
/force = power ratio

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of rjcasciato 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: rjcasciato 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

 

Thanks Rick and Josh...

 

To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the 
width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.  The 
lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...

 

So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was 
sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid 
80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual process 
of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very well to her 
rating in PHRF.

These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at least 
once by me

 

We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.

 

It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.

 

I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the 
lifelines, etc.

 

I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..

Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative to 
their pricing..

Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make it

 

Thanks again 

Ron

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 Original message 

From: Rick Brass via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 

Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00) 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com   

Cc: Rick Brass mailto:rickbr...@earthlink.net> > 

Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII 

 

38ST’s? Those must be huge.

 

I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s (equivalent 
to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I’m in the process of upgrading to 
32ST’s to make single handing easier. 

 

But even with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135 
headsail I now use is easier, but I can’t imagine that I would want anything 
smaller unless I was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or 110 and not 
going out in winds of 20 apparent or more. 

 

I’ve tried using the Barient 28 secondaries (equivalent to Harken 52s) to trim 
the headsail a few times. The bigger winched are noticeably easier.

 

Harken recommends a formula based on sail area to calculate the target power 
ratio of new winches. Based on a 400 sq. ft. headsail (100% on our boats) and a 
pull of 35 pounds on the winch handle, Harken 68’s are the right size for our 
boats. My 135 is 562 sq. ft., which means the load on the end of the winch 
handle can be as high as 60 pounds with my current winches. I’d definitely 
stick with the big winches.

 

So why are you replacing your big winches? Are they worn out beyond redemption?

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!

Josh
On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36
> has a power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I
> mentioned would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55
> pounds for my 135.
>
>
>
> The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey
> (though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.
>
>
>
> You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get
> 32ST conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be
> able to put 32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up.
> The bases on my 32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s
> and use them for your spinnaker – for which they work well.
>
>
>
> I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the
> winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the
> grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out
> to the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long
> winch handle is still problematic.
>
>
>
> Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of
> “winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to
> upgrade the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a
> spot on one of those TV reality shows.
>
>
>
> Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could
> exert a max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100
> pulling up, and 125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50
> pound number). The information about selecting winches from the Harken site
> currently recommends keeping the force level around 35 for longer term
> comfort and a mixed sex crew.
>
>
>
> BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:
>
>
>
> (Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X
> 6) /force = power ratio
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *rjcasciato
> via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* rjcasciato 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>
>
>
> Thanks Rick and Josh...
>
>
>
> To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the
> width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.
> The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...
>
>
>
> So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was
> sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid
> 80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual
> process of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very
> well to her rating in PHRF.
>
> These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at
> least once by me
>
>
>
> We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.
>
>
>
> It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.
>
>
>
> I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the
> lifelines, etc.
>
>
>
> I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..
>
> Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative
> to their pricing..
>
> Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make
> it
>
>
>
> Thanks again
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
>
> Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00)
>
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> Cc: Rick Brass 
>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>
>
>
> 38ST’s? Those must be huge.
>
>
>
> I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s
> (equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I’m in the process of
> upgrading to 32ST’s to make single handing easier.
>
>
>
> But even with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135
> headsail I now use is easier, but I can’t imagine that I would want
> anything smaller unless I was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or
> 110 and not going out in winds of 20 apparent or more.
>
>
>
> I’ve tried using the Barient 28 secondaries (equivalent to Harken 52s) to
> trim the headsail a few times. The bigger winched are noticeably easier.
>
>
>
> Harken recommends a formula based on sail area to calculate the target
> power ratio of new winches. Based on a 400 sq. ft. headsail (100% on our
> boats) and a pull of 35 pounds on the winch handle, Harken 68’s are the
> right size for our boats. My 135 is 562 sq. ft., which means the load on
> the end of the winch handle can be as high as 60

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

[Rjcasciato via CnC-List]

Thanks Josh...have you seen any pricing for the 4 speeds?  Ron

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 12:41 PM
To: C&C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

 

Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!

Josh

On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" 
wrote:

One occasionally sees Barient 36's on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36
has a power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I
mentioned would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55
pounds for my 135. 

 

The Lewmar EVO65ST's on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey
(though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.

 

You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get
32ST conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be able
to put 32ST's in place of the 28ST's for something like $2500 all up. The
bases on my 32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s and
use them for your spinnaker - for which they work well.

 

I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the
winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the
grinder. Don't do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out to
the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long winch
handle is still problematic.

 

Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of
"winch apes" from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to upgrade
the winches? Tell them it's cross-fit training and will get them a spot on
one of those TV reality shows.

 

Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could
exert a max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100
pulling up, and 125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I'm certain of the 50
pound number). The information about selecting winches from the Harken site
currently recommends keeping the force level around 35 for longer term
comfort and a mixed sex crew.

 

BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:

 

(Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X 6)
/force = power ratio

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-bounces@cnc-
 list.com] On Behalf Of rjcasciato via
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: rjcasciato 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

 

Thanks Rick and Josh...

 

To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the
width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.
The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...

 

So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was
sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid
80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual
process of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very
well to her rating in PHRF.

These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at least
once by me

 

We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.

 

It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.

 

I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the
lifelines, etc.

 

I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..

Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative to
their pricing..

Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make
it

 

Thanks again 

Ron

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 Original message 

From: Rick Brass via CnC-List  

Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00) 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Cc: Rick Brass  

Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII 

 

38ST's? Those must be huge.

 

I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s
(equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I'm in the process of
upgrading to 32ST's to make single handing easier. 

 

But even with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135
headsail I now use is easier, but I can't imagine that I would want anything
smaller unless I was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or 110 and not
going out in winds of 20 apparent or more. 

 

I've tried using the Barient 28 secondaries (equivalent to Harken 52s) to
trim the headsail a few times. The bigger winched are noticeably easier.

 

Harken recommends a formula based on sail area to calculate the target power
ratio of new winches. Based on a 400 sq. ft. headsail (100% on our boats)
and a pull of 35 pounds on the winch handle, Harken 68's are t

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I was thinking $4k each but no.  I'll see what I can find.
On Aug 26, 2016 1:04 PM, "Rjcasciato via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Thanks Josh…….have you seen any pricing for the 4 speeds?  Ron
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 12:41 PM
> *To:* C&C List
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>
>
>
> Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!
>
> Josh
>
> On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
> One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36
> has a power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I
> mentioned would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55
> pounds for my 135.
>
>
>
> The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey
> (though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.
>
>
>
> You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get
> 32ST conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be
> able to put 32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up.
> The bases on my 32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s
> and use them for your spinnaker – for which they work well.
>
>
>
> I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the
> winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the
> grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out
> to the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long
> winch handle is still problematic.
>
>
>
> Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of
> “winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to
> upgrade the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a
> spot on one of those TV reality shows.
>
>
>
> Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could
> exert a max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100
> pulling up, and 125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50
> pound number). The information about selecting winches from the Harken site
> currently recommends keeping the force level around 35 for longer term
> comfort and a mixed sex crew.
>
>
>
> BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:
>
>
>
> (Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X
> 6) /force = power ratio
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *rjcasciato
> via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* rjcasciato 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>
>
>
> Thanks Rick and Josh...
>
>
>
> To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the
> width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.
> The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...
>
>
>
> So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was
> sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid
> 80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual
> process of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very
> well to her rating in PHRF.
>
> These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at
> least once by me
>
>
>
> We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.
>
>
>
> It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.
>
>
>
> I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the
> lifelines, etc.
>
>
>
> I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..
>
> Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative
> to their pricing..
>
> Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make
> it
>
>
>
> Thanks again
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
>
> Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00)
>
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> Cc: Rick Brass 
>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>
>
>
> 38ST’s? Those must be huge.
>
>
>
> I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s
> (equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I’m in the process of
> upgrading to 32ST’s to make single handing easier.
>
>
>
> But even with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135
> headsail I now use is easier, but I can’t imagine that I would want
> anything smaller unless I was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or
> 110 and not going out in winds of 20 apparent or more.
>
>
>
> I’ve

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Way better priced than I thought!

http://www.defender.com/pontos.jsp

Josh
On Aug 26, 2016 1:04 PM, "Rjcasciato via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Thanks Josh…….have you seen any pricing for the 4 speeds?  Ron
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 12:41 PM
> *To:* C&C List
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>
>
>
> Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!
>
> Josh
>
> On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
> One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36
> has a power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I
> mentioned would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55
> pounds for my 135.
>
>
>
> The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey
> (though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.
>
>
>
> You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get
> 32ST conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be
> able to put 32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up.
> The bases on my 32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s
> and use them for your spinnaker – for which they work well.
>
>
>
> I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the
> winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the
> grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out
> to the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long
> winch handle is still problematic.
>
>
>
> Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of
> “winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to
> upgrade the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a
> spot on one of those TV reality shows.
>
>
>
> Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could
> exert a max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100
> pulling up, and 125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50
> pound number). The information about selecting winches from the Harken site
> currently recommends keeping the force level around 35 for longer term
> comfort and a mixed sex crew.
>
>
>
> BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:
>
>
>
> (Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X
> 6) /force = power ratio
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *rjcasciato
> via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* rjcasciato 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>
>
>
> Thanks Rick and Josh...
>
>
>
> To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the
> width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.
> The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...
>
>
>
> So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was
> sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid
> 80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual
> process of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very
> well to her rating in PHRF.
>
> These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at
> least once by me
>
>
>
> We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.
>
>
>
> It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.
>
>
>
> I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the
> lifelines, etc.
>
>
>
> I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..
>
> Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative
> to their pricing..
>
> Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make
> it
>
>
>
> Thanks again
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
>
> Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00)
>
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> Cc: Rick Brass 
>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>
>
>
> 38ST’s? Those must be huge.
>
>
>
> I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s
> (equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I’m in the process of
> upgrading to 32ST’s to make single handing easier.
>
>
>
> But even with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135
> headsail I now use is easier, but I can’t imagine that I would want
> anything smaller unless I was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or
> 110 and not going out in winds of 20 apparent or m

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

$1600
On Aug 26, 2016 1:21 PM, "Josh Muckley"  wrote:

> Way better priced than I thought!
>
> http://www.defender.com/pontos.jsp
>
> Josh
> On Aug 26, 2016 1:04 PM, "Rjcasciato via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Josh…….have you seen any pricing for the 4 speeds?  Ron
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
>> Muckley via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 12:41 PM
>> *To:* C&C List
>> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>>
>>
>>
>> Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36
>> has a power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I
>> mentioned would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55
>> pounds for my 135.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey
>> (though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And
>> get 32ST conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be
>> able to put 32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up.
>> The bases on my 32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s
>> and use them for your spinnaker – for which they work well.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the
>> winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the
>> grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out
>> to the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long
>> winch handle is still problematic.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple
>> of “winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to
>> upgrade the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a
>> spot on one of those TV reality shows.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could
>> exert a max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100
>> pulling up, and 125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50
>> pound number). The information about selecting winches from the Harken site
>> currently recommends keeping the force level around 35 for longer term
>> comfort and a mixed sex crew.
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:
>>
>>
>>
>> (Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X
>> 6) /force = power ratio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Brass
>>
>> Washington, NC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
>> *rjcasciato
>> via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* rjcasciato 
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Rick and Josh...
>>
>>
>>
>> To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient
>> 28ST's.the width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures
>> at 8.5" now.  The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the
>> winch...
>>
>>
>>
>> So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was
>> sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid
>> 80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual
>> process of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very
>> well to her rating in PHRF.
>>
>> These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at
>> least once by me
>>
>>
>>
>> We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a
>> 110.
>>
>>
>>
>> It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.
>>
>>
>>
>> I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the
>> lifelines, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..
>>
>> Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative
>> to their pricing..
>>
>> Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make
>> it
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>>
>> From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
>>
>> Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00)
>>
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>
>> Cc: Rick Brass 
>>
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII
>>
>>
>>
>> 38ST’s? Those must be huge.
>>
>>
>>
>> I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s
>> (equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I’m in the process of
>> upgrading to 32ST’s to make single handing easier.
>>

Re: Stus-List Winch replacement and winch failures

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

Dennis, I would definitely be interested in the Barient 28 to replace one
of my sad cabin top winches. Is it a two speed 28? Would take the bearings
too for backup. Let me know what you want for the winch.

Kevin
30-2

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 9:29 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Well, some of the 28's are indestructible.  The alloy Barient and Barlows
> suffer from metal failures.
>
> Failure mode 1 - wallowing out of the pawl sockets.  This can result in
> the pawl not operating smoothly or at all.
>
> Failure mode 2 - breaking off of teeth in the drum skirt.  This usually
> happens when the headsail flogs violently with a wrap or two on a winch.
>
> Note: I've only seen these failures on alloy winches.  Stainless and
> chrome/bronze winches are much more robust.
>
> When Touche' had alloy winches, I kept a spare 28 just in case.  I have
> upgraded to chrome/bronze or stainless winches so the spare 28 (non-ST) is
> available.  I also have some spare roller bearings for Barient 28 Non-ST's
> if anybody needs them.  Sorry, no pawls or springs.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Those 28s are virtually indistructable but they are heavy. What size are
>> you going up to?
>> Joel
>>
>>
>> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Raymarine rudder angle indicator

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

My indicator is off by  8 degrees. Is there a software adjustment or do I
need to adjust the length of the connecting rod ?

Joel


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Raymarine rudder angle indicator

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

You should be able to center up in the setup menu of the pilot; but having the 
rod centered helps.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Aug 26, 2016, at 12:42 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> My indicator is off by  8 degrees. Is there a software adjustment or do I 
> need to adjust the length of the connecting rod ?
> 
> Joel 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winch replacement and winch failures

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

I have two spare (non-ST) 28's that are currently being used as paper weights.  
They  were cleaned and greased after being taken out of service.  Low-ball 
offers great fully received...

Tim
Ex-35-3

> On Aug 26, 2016, at 12:28 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Well, some of the 28's are indestructible.  The alloy Barient and Barlows 
> suffer from metal failures.
> 
> Failure mode 1 - wallowing out of the pawl sockets.  This can result in the 
> pawl not operating smoothly or at all.
> 
> Failure mode 2 - breaking off of teeth in the drum skirt.  This usually 
> happens when the headsail flogs violently with a wrap or two on a winch.
> 
> Note: I've only seen these failures on alloy winches.  Stainless and 
> chrome/bronze winches are much more robust.
> 
> When Touche' had alloy winches, I kept a spare 28 just in case.  I have 
> upgraded to chrome/bronze or stainless winches so the spare 28 (non-ST) is 
> available.  I also have some spare roller bearings for Barient 28 Non-ST's if 
> anybody needs them.  Sorry, no pawls or springs.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Those 28s are virtually indistructable but they are heavy. What size are you 
>> going up to?  
>> Joel  
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Owners Database

[Wayne via CnC-List]

To update the info on the CC30 “Resilience” the HIN is 30028874; the engine is 
a Westerbeke Diesel Model 30B, 27 horsepower, Wheel steering. She is located at 
the Armdale Yacht Club, Halifax, Nova Scotia.
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Yes the Pontos 4 speed 40 is $1600. (Which, BTW is $300 more than a Lewmar 
Ocean 40 and $600 more than a Lewmar EVO 40) And it gets line in fast. And it 
shifts gears automatically at a comfortable 25 pounds on the winch handle. But…

 

The ultimate power ratio in the lowest gear is still a 40 – which means it has 
the same power as the Barient 24 that came as the halyard winch on my 38. (And 
that I have installed as primaries on my C&C25)

 

Ron, you indicated dissatisfaction with how hard it is to grind in your 155 
with the current Barient 28’s. The current Barient 28’s have a power ratio of 
52 – the same as the Pontos 52’s that sell at Defender for $3400 each.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 1:25 PM
To: C&C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

 

$1600

On Aug 26, 2016 1:21 PM, "Josh Muckley" mailto:muckl...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Way better priced than I thought!

http://www.defender.com/pontos.jsp

Josh

On Aug 26, 2016 1:04 PM, "Rjcasciato via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Thanks Josh…….have you seen any pricing for the 4 speeds?  Ron

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 12:41 PM
To: C&C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

 

Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!

Josh

On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36 has a 
power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I mentioned 
would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55 pounds for my 
135. 

 

The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey 
(though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.

 

You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get 32ST 
conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be able to put 
32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up. The bases on my 
32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s and use them for your 
spinnaker – for which they work well.

 

I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the 
winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the 
grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out to 
the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long winch 
handle is still problematic.

 

Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of 
“winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to upgrade 
the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a spot on one 
of those TV reality shows.

 

Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could exert a 
max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100 pulling up, and 
125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50 pound number). The 
information about selecting winches from the Harken site currently recommends 
keeping the force level around 35 for longer term comfort and a mixed sex crew.

 

BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:

 

(Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X 6) 
/force = power ratio

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
 ] On Behalf Of rjcasciato via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: rjcasciato mailto:rjcasci...@comcast.net> >
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII

 

Thanks Rick and Josh...

 

To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the 
width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.  The 
lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...

 

So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was 
sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid 
80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual process 
of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very well to her 
rating in PHRF.

These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at least 
once by me

 

We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.

 

It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.

 

I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the 
lifelines, etc.

 

I just think it's time to move on to a mode

Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36.

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

Only thing stiffer than a 30-1 is a rock dike.RonWild CheriC&C 30-1STL


  From: RANDY via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list  
Cc: RANDY ; Mitchell's 
 Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 10:09 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Possible upgrade to a C&C 36.
   
A lot stiffer than the 30?  The 36KCB must be one helluva stiff boat then!
Cheers,Randy StaffordS/V GrenadineC&C 30-1 #7Ken Caryl, CO

   ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!