Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints (long)

[Curtis]

Glad you guys are sharing this. This is my First time learning how to use
the gps.  I sail in sight of land most of the time. I do want to learn and
go of shore this spring. If fact, That's why I got a new GPS.  keep in mind
I have been studying paper charts and dead reckoning I do understand that
the fundamentals should not be bypassed in lew of technology. I will be
using the GPS/ Sonar and I find that is a great tool. You got to admit it.
It gives me Local weather, temp, sonar Depth, Local marinas with phone
numbers, it gives me tides and velocity, It has a WiFi hot spot.It has
anchor drag alarms. It has a snooze alarm. The modern Garmin is not junk.
How ever that being said, It is a tool and only a tool. I've seen paper
charts that if followed you would be high and dry on a sand bar as well.
They are all tools and should be used only with a human looking and seeing
and using piloting skills learned form experience.  I think as far as tool
go for helping a sailor find his way its a great invention. We should not
be afraid of technology but we should never forgo basic fundamentals on
navigation.
 there in a nut shell is my 2 cents.
Cheers, Curtis



On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:19 PM, Rick Brass  wrote:

> About 15-20 years ago, when GPS started to become ubiquitous, it was not
> uncommon to hear about GPS assisted groundings where a skipper set a
> waypoint here, and a waypoint over there a few miles, and forgot to look at
> the shoal or headland between the two waypoints. So much so that the Power
> Squadron Piloting course segment on GPS navigation was changed to teach
> folks to avoid the situation.
>
>
>
> Then when GPS accuracy increase significantly, there was rash of GPS
> assisted collisions with objects. I had a friend, a two time
> circumnavigator with decades of wxperience, who used a channel market for a
> waypoint and left a big blue paints stripe on the marker as his boat
> scraped along side. And a far less experienced local was bringing his
> new-to-him Bermuda 40 home under full sail, using all those expensive
> instruments to steer the boat, when he ran head on into a channel turning
> marker mounted on a dolphin made of 3 12” telephone poles. Actually I was
> really impressed by the Bermuda 40, which had bent the polished stainless
> CQR and the bow pulpit when it hit the dolphin, but which did not even
> crack the fiberglass of the boat. Again the course was changed to teach
> offset waypoints.
>
>
>
> Now you hear about the occasional collision between boats using almost the
> same waypoints to steer a route. And on my recent delivery up the ICW from
> Port Royal to Pamlico Sound, I saw an uncomfortable number of boats who
> seemed to be following the ”Magenta Line” with no one at the helm. I can
> recall several stretches of the ICW where I was firmly in the middle of the
> cut, but the boat icon was in the weeds on the chart and the Magenta Line
> was a fair bit away from it. At times like that is is good to recall that
> the positions shown on the chart were determined 25, 45, 65, or more years
> ago by using methods far less accurate than GPS.
>
>
>
> Makes sense that the warning on electronic navigation devices say they
> should not be your only means of navigation. The rule should be that you be
> at the helm and keep your eyes out of the boat.
>
>
>
> Maybe the GPS should have a button that needs to be pressed at random
> intervals of 2 minutes or less, and if not pressed the boat stops. Think of
> it as a sort of “deadman switch” for the terminally stupid boater.
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis
> C.
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2014 4:44 PM
> *To:* Cn Clist
> *Subject:* Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints (long)
>
>
>
> I made a transit with a learning sailor who had just bought a new handheld
> GPS.  It was a lower priced model with a map but not a true chartplotter.
>  He wanted to see The Rigolets, the outlet of Lake Pontchartrain, so he
> wouldn't be intimidated should he ever do it himself.
>
>
>
> As we made turn after turn along the route, I noticed he wasn't setting
> any waypoints in his GPS.  I mentioned it and he said he didn't need to
> because all the marks were in the pre-loaded database in the GPS.  I
> suggested to him that it might be a good idea to have waypoints set in the
> middle of the channels where he wanted to turn rather than using the fixed
> marks that lined the channel.  He thought about it and then the light came
> on.
>
>
>
> On another occasion, I helped a friend bring his new boat home from across
> the lake.  It had a nice Raymarine charplotter.  Imagine his amazement
> when, as we motored down the middle of Mandeville Harbor, the symbol for
> the boat on his chartplotter went through the middle of the seawall on our
> port side.  What if the visibility had been zero and we were totally
> relying on the chartplotter?  I have a waypoint set a hundred yards or so
> off the entrance.  I can arr

Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints (long)

[Dr. Mark Bodnar]

  
  

  For me this brings up a good question.  I'm intrigued to hear that
  Curtis's new GPS has several additional features I didn't expect.
  
  If you were starting from scratch - what electronics would you put
  on the boat.
  Speed and depth are obvious.  Seems thru hull depth sounder is
  preferable if you don't already have a hole.
  Mast head wind instruments?
  Chartplotter/GPS? Handheld GPS backup?
  VHF and handhelf VHF
  Later on the list an autopilot
  Not sure about radar - we get pretty serious fog, but not sure how
  much I'll be out sailing in it
  
  I've read lots about the challenges of getting different systems
  to talk - so I assume a suite of electronics from one manufacturer
  would be simpler. Preferences - quality, cost, value
  
  Not like I'm going to jump in all at once, but my new boat only
  has speed, depth and a VHF - and I expect I'll be adding to that
  as I move forwards - I want to make sure I don't have to go
  backwards because I made a bad early choice.  
  
  Thoughts appreciated,
  Mark
  -
  Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
-

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana
  On 16/01/2014 8:31 AM, Curtis wrote:


  Glad you guys are sharing this. This is my First
time learning how to use the gps.  I sail in sight of land most
of the time. I do want to learn and go of shore this spring. If
fact, That's why I got a new GPS.  keep in mind I have been
studying paper charts and dead reckoning I do understand that
the fundamentals should not be bypassed in lew of technology. I
will be using the GPS/ Sonar and I find that is a great tool.
You got to admit it. It gives me Local weather, temp, sonar
Depth, Local marinas with phone numbers, it gives me tides and
velocity, It has a WiFi hot spot.It has anchor drag alarms. It
has a snooze alarm. The modern Garmin is not junk. How ever that
being said, It is a tool and only a tool. I've seen paper charts
that if followed you would be high and dry on a sand bar as
well. They are all tools and should be used only with a human
looking and seeing and using piloting skills learned form
experience.  I think as far as tool go for helping a sailor find
his way its a great invention. We should not be afraid of
technology but we should never forgo basic fundamentals on
navigation.

   there in a nut shell is my 2 cents.
Cheers, Curtis


  
  

On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:19 PM, Rick
  Brass 
  wrote:
  

  
About
15-20 years ago, when GPS started to become
ubiquitous, it was not uncommon to hear about GPS
assisted groundings where a skipper set a waypoint
here, and a waypoint over there a few miles, and
forgot to look at the shoal or headland between the
two waypoints. So much so that the Power Squadron
Piloting course segment on GPS navigation was
changed to teach folks to avoid the situation.
 
Then
when GPS accuracy increase significantly, there was
rash of GPS assisted collisions with objects. I had
a friend, a two time circumnavigator with decades of
wxperience, who used a channel market for a waypoint
and left a big blue paints stripe on the marker as
his boat scraped along side. And a far less
experienced local was bringing his new-to-him
Bermuda 40 home under full sail, using all those
expensive instruments to steer the boat, when he ran
head on into a channel turning marker mounted on a
dolphin made of 3 12” telephone poles. Actually I
was really impressed by the Bermuda 40, which had
bent the polished stainless CQR and the bow pulpit
when it hit the dolphin, but which did not even
crack the fiberglass of the boat. Again the course
was changed to teach offset waypoints.
 
Now
you hear about the occasional collision between
boats using almost the same waypoints to steer a
route. And on my recent delivery up the ICW from
Port Royal to Pamlico Sound, I saw an uncomfortable
number 

Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints (long)

[Andrew Burton]

In order?
1 Depth
2 VHF
3 Stereo
4 GPS
5 Plotter
6 Speed
7 wind
8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
isn't the more valuable tool
9 SSB

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine



On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Dr. Mark Bodnar wrote:

>
> For me this brings up a good question.  I'm intrigued to hear that
> Curtis's new GPS has several additional features I didn't expect.
>
> If you were starting from scratch - what electronics would you put on the
> boat.
> Speed and depth are obvious.  Seems thru hull depth sounder is preferable
> if you don't already have a hole.
> Mast head wind instruments?
> Chartplotter/GPS? Handheld GPS backup?
> VHF and handhelf VHF
> Later on the list an autopilot
> Not sure about radar - we get pretty serious fog, but not sure how much
> I'll be out sailing in it
>
> I've read lots about the challenges of getting different systems to talk -
> so I assume a suite of electronics from one manufacturer would be simpler.
> Preferences - quality, cost, value
>
> Not like I'm going to jump in all at once, but my new boat only has speed,
> depth and a VHF - and I expect I'll be adding to that as I move forwards -
> I want to make sure I don't have to go backwards because I made a bad early
> choice.
>
> Thoughts appreciated,
> Mark
>
> -
>   Dr. Mark Bodnar
> B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
> Bedford Chiropractic
> -
>
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>   - George Santayana
>
> On 16/01/2014 8:31 AM, Curtis wrote:
>
> Glad you guys are sharing this. This is my First time learning how to use
> the gps.  I sail in sight of land most of the time. I do want to learn and
> go of shore this spring. If fact, That's why I got a new GPS.  keep in mind
> I have been studying paper charts and dead reckoning I do understand that
> the fundamentals should not be bypassed in lew of technology. I will be
> using the GPS/ Sonar and I find that is a great tool. You got to admit it.
> It gives me Local weather, temp, sonar Depth, Local marinas with phone
> numbers, it gives me tides and velocity, It has a WiFi hot spot.It has
> anchor drag alarms. It has a snooze alarm. The modern Garmin is not junk.
> How ever that being said, It is a tool and only a tool. I've seen paper
> charts that if followed you would be high and dry on a sand bar as well.
> They are all tools and should be used only with a human looking and seeing
> and using piloting skills learned form experience.  I think as far as tool
> go for helping a sailor find his way its a great invention. We should not
> be afraid of technology but we should never forgo basic fundamentals on
> navigation.
>  there in a nut shell is my 2 cents.
> Cheers, Curtis
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:19 PM, Rick Brass wrote:
>
>>  About 15-20 years ago, when GPS started to become ubiquitous, it was
>> not uncommon to hear about GPS assisted groundings where a skipper set a
>> waypoint here, and a waypoint over there a few miles, and forgot to look at
>> the shoal or headland between the two waypoints. So much so that the Power
>> Squadron Piloting course segment on GPS navigation was changed to teach
>> folks to avoid the situation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then when GPS accuracy increase significantly, there was rash of GPS
>> assisted collisions with objects. I had a friend, a two time
>> circumnavigator with decades of wxperience, who used a channel market for a
>> waypoint and left a big blue paints stripe on the marker as his boat
>> scraped along side. And a far less experienced local was bringing his
>> new-to-him Bermuda 40 home under full sail, using all those expensive
>> instruments to steer the boat, when he ran head on into a channel turning
>> marker mounted on a dolphin made of 3 12” telephone poles. Actually I was
>> really impressed by the Bermuda 40, which had bent the polished stainless
>> CQR and the bow pulpit when it hit the dolphin, but which did not even
>> crack the fiberglass of the boat. Again the course was changed to teach
>> offset waypoints.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now you hear about the occasional collision between boats using almost
>> the same waypoints to steer a route. And on my recent delivery up the ICW
>> from Port Royal to Pamlico Sound, I saw an uncomfortable number of boats
>> who seemed to be following the ”Magenta Line” with no one at the helm. I
>> can recall several stretches of the ICW where I was firmly in the middle of
>> the cut, but the boat icon was in the weeds on the chart and the Magenta
>> Line was a fair bit away from it. At times like that is is good to recall
>> that the positions shown on the chart were determined 25, 45, 65, or more
>> years ago by using methods far less accurate than GPS.
>>
>>
>>
>> Makes sense that the warning on electronic navigation devices say they
>> should not be your only means of navigation. The rule should be that you be
>> at the helm and keep your eyes out of the boat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe the GPS should have a b

Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints (long)

[Andrew Burton]

Forgot one.
4 Autopilot before GPS

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Andrew Burton wrote:

> In order?
> 1 Depth
> 2 VHF
> 3 Stereo
> 4 GPS
> 5 Plotter
> 6 Speed
> 7 wind
> 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
> isn't the more valuable tool
> 9 SSB
>
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Dr. Mark Bodnar 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> For me this brings up a good question.  I'm intrigued to hear that
>> Curtis's new GPS has several additional features I didn't expect.
>>
>> If you were starting from scratch - what electronics would you put on the
>> boat.
>> Speed and depth are obvious.  Seems thru hull depth sounder is preferable
>> if you don't already have a hole.
>> Mast head wind instruments?
>> Chartplotter/GPS? Handheld GPS backup?
>> VHF and handhelf VHF
>> Later on the list an autopilot
>> Not sure about radar - we get pretty serious fog, but not sure how much
>> I'll be out sailing in it
>>
>> I've read lots about the challenges of getting different systems to talk
>> - so I assume a suite of electronics from one manufacturer would be
>> simpler. Preferences - quality, cost, value
>>
>> Not like I'm going to jump in all at once, but my new boat only has
>> speed, depth and a VHF - and I expect I'll be adding to that as I move
>> forwards - I want to make sure I don't have to go backwards because I made
>> a bad early choice.
>>
>> Thoughts appreciated,
>> Mark
>>
>> -
>>   Dr. Mark Bodnar
>> B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
>> Bedford Chiropractic
>> -
>>
>> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>>   - George Santayana
>>
>> On 16/01/2014 8:31 AM, Curtis wrote:
>>
>> Glad you guys are sharing this. This is my First time learning how to use
>> the gps.  I sail in sight of land most of the time. I do want to learn and
>> go of shore this spring. If fact, That's why I got a new GPS.  keep in mind
>> I have been studying paper charts and dead reckoning I do understand that
>> the fundamentals should not be bypassed in lew of technology. I will be
>> using the GPS/ Sonar and I find that is a great tool. You got to admit it.
>> It gives me Local weather, temp, sonar Depth, Local marinas with phone
>> numbers, it gives me tides and velocity, It has a WiFi hot spot.It has
>> anchor drag alarms. It has a snooze alarm. The modern Garmin is not junk.
>> How ever that being said, It is a tool and only a tool. I've seen paper
>> charts that if followed you would be high and dry on a sand bar as well.
>> They are all tools and should be used only with a human looking and seeing
>> and using piloting skills learned form experience.  I think as far as tool
>> go for helping a sailor find his way its a great invention. We should not
>> be afraid of technology but we should never forgo basic fundamentals on
>> navigation.
>>  there in a nut shell is my 2 cents.
>> Cheers, Curtis
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:19 PM, Rick Brass wrote:
>>
>>>  About 15-20 years ago, when GPS started to become ubiquitous, it was
>>> not uncommon to hear about GPS assisted groundings where a skipper set a
>>> waypoint here, and a waypoint over there a few miles, and forgot to look at
>>> the shoal or headland between the two waypoints. So much so that the Power
>>> Squadron Piloting course segment on GPS navigation was changed to teach
>>> folks to avoid the situation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then when GPS accuracy increase significantly, there was rash of GPS
>>> assisted collisions with objects. I had a friend, a two time
>>> circumnavigator with decades of wxperience, who used a channel market for a
>>> waypoint and left a big blue paints stripe on the marker as his boat
>>> scraped along side. And a far less experienced local was bringing his
>>> new-to-him Bermuda 40 home under full sail, using all those expensive
>>> instruments to steer the boat, when he ran head on into a channel turning
>>> marker mounted on a dolphin made of 3 12” telephone poles. Actually I was
>>> really impressed by the Bermuda 40, which had bent the polished stainless
>>> CQR and the bow pulpit when it hit the dolphin, but which did not even
>>> crack the fiberglass of the boat. Again the course was changed to teach
>>> offset waypoints.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now you hear about the occasional collision between boats using almost
>>> the same waypoints to steer a route. And on my recent delivery up the ICW
>>> from Port Royal to Pamlico Sound, I saw an uncomfortable number of boats
>>> who seemed to be following the ”Magenta Line” with no one at the helm. I
>>> can recall several stretches of the ICW where I was firmly in the middle of
>>> the cut, but the boat icon was in the weeds on the chart and the Magenta
>>> Line was a fair bit away from it. At times like that is is good to recall
>>> that the positions shown on the chart were determined 25, 45, 65, or more
>>> years ago by using methods far less accurate than GPS.
>>>
>>>

Re: Stus-List Redundant instrumentation / tools

[Bill Coleman]

Interesting story about a novice going coastal cruising with only his phone
for location

 

http://www.soundingsonline.com/dispatches/291566-video-a-novice-sailor-and-a
-moonless-night

 

 

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2014/01/09/2869285/boat-rescue-helicopter-piedr
as.html

 

 

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39

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Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints (long)

[Marek Dziedzic]

If I may add to it a bit...

When you mark a waypoint and you are able to remain stationary for a few 
seconds, try making the waypoint using the average from numerous readings 
(usually the default is 16 or 64). When you capture 16 reading the GPS error is 
substantially reduced (especially, if you care to be within single metres or 
tens of feet). The older GPSs read once per second (1Hz); some of the newer 
ones do that 10 times faster (10 Hz). So you need to be in the same place for, 
let’s say 20 s.

I am somewhat surprised that so few people mentioned the log book and making 
records on an hourly basis. I admit not using one here, but I sail on a 
lake/river, where the furthest you can be from the shore is about 1 km (0.5 nm) 
and when daysailing, you don’t go out in a dense fog. But I cannot imagine 
going offshore and not using one. Maybe I am too old.

Marek (in Ottawa)

--

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 13:44:17 -0800 (PST)
From: "Dennis C." 
To: Cn Clist 
Subject: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints (long)
Message-ID:
<1389822257.90860.yahoomail...@web164803.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Anyway, relative to the subject line, ALL the waypoints in my GPS's are 
OBSERVED, ?That is, I took the boat to the spot where I wanted the waypoint and 
hit the "Mark" button on the GPS unit. If I'm not comfortable with it, I've 
been known to swing the boat around and go back and re-mark it. ?I always 
delete the other one.


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints (long)

[Stevan Plavsa]

Aha! The stereo is very important! I thought so too. But then again, I sail
within sight of land. I did install the stereo before I installed the new
speed and depth. I was so happy when I got the stereo working that I put a
video on youtube to show some friends .. and now you guys get to see it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3o3wqfjk00

Elton John was playing on the radio. I was happy with my install and
continue to be, the stereo is an easy reach from the cockpit and I can
stream music to it via my phone (or friend's phones). The thing also
charges my iPad.

My opinion as to what to install and in what order isn't worth much
considering the company on this mailing list but I know one thing, it can
be a lot of fun. Take your time and enjoy it. They might be tools but
they're also toys. The other thing I know is that my iPad is an awesome
navigation tool (and lots more). It might go overboard and I'de be SOL but
if you've been reading the list lately like I have you'll know that you
need to learn to use a sextant anyway ;)


Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto



On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Andrew Burton wrote:

> Forgot one.
> 4 Autopilot before GPS
>
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Andrew Burton 
> wrote:
>
>> In order?
>> 1 Depth
>> 2 VHF
>> 3 Stereo
>> 4 GPS
>> 5 Plotter
>> 6 Speed
>> 7 wind
>> 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
>> isn't the more valuable tool
>> 9 SSB
>>
>> Andy
>> C&C 40
>> Peregrine
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Dr. Mark Bodnar 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> For me this brings up a good question.  I'm intrigued to hear that
>>> Curtis's new GPS has several additional features I didn't expect.
>>>
>>> If you were starting from scratch - what electronics would you put on
>>> the boat.
>>> Speed and depth are obvious.  Seems thru hull depth sounder is
>>> preferable if you don't already have a hole.
>>> Mast head wind instruments?
>>> Chartplotter/GPS? Handheld GPS backup?
>>> VHF and handhelf VHF
>>> Later on the list an autopilot
>>> Not sure about radar - we get pretty serious fog, but not sure how much
>>> I'll be out sailing in it
>>>
>>> I've read lots about the challenges of getting different systems to talk
>>> - so I assume a suite of electronics from one manufacturer would be
>>> simpler. Preferences - quality, cost, value
>>>
>>> Not like I'm going to jump in all at once, but my new boat only has
>>> speed, depth and a VHF - and I expect I'll be adding to that as I move
>>> forwards - I want to make sure I don't have to go backwards because I made
>>> a bad early choice.
>>>
>>> Thoughts appreciated,
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> -
>>>   Dr. Mark Bodnar
>>> B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
>>> Bedford Chiropractic
>>> -
>>>
>>> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>>>   - George Santayana
>>>
>>> On 16/01/2014 8:31 AM, Curtis wrote:
>>>
>>> Glad you guys are sharing this. This is my First time learning how to
>>> use the gps.  I sail in sight of land most of the time. I do want to learn
>>> and go of shore this spring. If fact, That's why I got a new GPS.  keep in
>>> mind I have been studying paper charts and dead reckoning I do understand
>>> that the fundamentals should not be bypassed in lew of technology. I will
>>> be using the GPS/ Sonar and I find that is a great tool. You got to admit
>>> it. It gives me Local weather, temp, sonar Depth, Local marinas with phone
>>> numbers, it gives me tides and velocity, It has a WiFi hot spot.It has
>>> anchor drag alarms. It has a snooze alarm. The modern Garmin is not junk.
>>> How ever that being said, It is a tool and only a tool. I've seen paper
>>> charts that if followed you would be high and dry on a sand bar as well.
>>> They are all tools and should be used only with a human looking and seeing
>>> and using piloting skills learned form experience.  I think as far as tool
>>> go for helping a sailor find his way its a great invention. We should not
>>> be afraid of technology but we should never forgo basic fundamentals on
>>> navigation.
>>>  there in a nut shell is my 2 cents.
>>> Cheers, Curtis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:19 PM, Rick Brass wrote:
>>>
  About 15-20 years ago, when GPS started to become ubiquitous, it was
 not uncommon to hear about GPS assisted groundings where a skipper set a
 waypoint here, and a waypoint over there a few miles, and forgot to look at
 the shoal or headland between the two waypoints. So much so that the Power
 Squadron Piloting course segment on GPS navigation was changed to teach
 folks to avoid the situation.



 Then when GPS accuracy increase significantly, there was rash of GPS
 assisted collisions with objects. I had a friend, a two time
 circumnavigator with decades of wxperience, who used a channel market for a
 waypoint and left a big blue paints stripe on the marker as his boat
 scr

Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints

[Maturo, John]

I certainly subscribe to Dennis's practice. It took me a couple of years before 
I trusted the routing capabilities of my gps. All of my routes are verified in 
good visibility before I trust them in the dark of night or fog. 

A proper watch and attention to what you see and hear rather than exclusively 
relying on the electronic version of reality is the way to keep ones boat and 
life safe. As has been said electronics are an aid to extend our vision not to 
replace it


John Maturo
Ashe Baltic 39
203-494-6782

> On Jan 16, 2014, at 8:30, "cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com" 
>  wrote:
> 
>   4.  Electronics - was Re:  Setting GPS Waypoints

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Re: Stus-List PHRF Question

[Gary Nylander]

Totally agree - we have folks with stop watches guessing when the boat crosses 
the line and then we want sub-second results! It cost our boat a title that 
year - we had one race where we tied the other boat at the one second level - 
but they beat us at the half second level, costing us a point and the 
championship. I lost the scoring "job" and the title

Gary
  - Original Message - 
  From: Ronald B. Frerker 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 6:02 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Question


  I can't believe there's a race committee quick enough to require split second 
timing!  Most are lucky to get with in a half minute.
  Ron
  Wild Cheri
  C&C 30
  STL





--
  From: Gary Nylander 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 3:03 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Question



  I also used RaceSail for years and our Friday group uses it still. RaceSail 
supports just about everything you need - I used it for low point scoring, the 
Friday folks use high point - the author (nice guy) is responsive to 
corrections and upgrades (or used to be - its been a while).

  The only downside is that it only scores down to the second - the guy who 
took over for me wanted it down to half a second.

  Gary


- Original Message - 
From: Gary Russell 
To: C&C List 
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Question


We use RaceSail which is free and can be downloaded from the Internet.  It 
seems to do everything we need.  It's not the easiest software to learn, but it 
is free and does the job nicely.  It supports race series and pursuit starts.  
It also supports multiple handicapping methods including PHRF time-on-time and 
time-on-distance. 


Gary
S/V Expresso
C&C 35 Mk II
East Greenwich, RI, USA





On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Glen Eddie  wrote:

  Hello everyone,

  I have been given the task of updating our club’s Racing software for 
Wednesday night PHRF races.  If anyone knows what there club uses or better yet 
has experience with the various software options it would be appreciated.  We 
are on Lake Ontario (PHRF LO) and the PHRF association does not make any 
recommendations on software choices.

  Your assistance is appreciated.  

  Freya IV
  C&C 35 Mk I
  Toronto


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Tel:  416-777-5357 
Fax:  1-888-812-2557 
ged...@torkinmanes.com 
VCard 

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  This email message, and any attachments, is intended only for the named 
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and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this 
message in error, please notify the sender and delete this email message. Thank 
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Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints (long)

[Dennis C.]

Agreed on the slowing/stopping the boat to mark the waypoint.  I forgot to 
mention that in my original post.  I may even circle or move the boat slightly 
until I'm comfortable with the spot.

Ditto the logbook.  While I don't log position each hour, I may log miles when 
entering/leaving harbors, marinas or channels, bridge passages, anchorages, 
weather conditions, etc.  Makes for good reference for future trips and for 
good reading and remembering.

I log engine hours and miles at anchorages, dockages, fuel docks, etc.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


>
> From: Marek Dziedzic 
>To: CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
>Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 7:52 AM
>Subject: Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints (long)
> 
>
>
>If I may add to it a bit...
> 
>When you mark a waypoint and you are able to remain stationary for a few 
seconds, try making the waypoint using the average from numerous readings 
(usually the default is 16 or 64). When you capture 16 reading the GPS error is 
substantially reduced (especially, if you care to be within single metres or 
tens of feet). The older GPSs read once per second (1Hz); some of the newer 
ones 
do that 10 times faster (10 Hz). So you need to be in the same place for, let’s 
say 20 s.
> 
>I am somewhat surprised that so few people mentioned the log book and 
making records on an hourly basis. I admit not using one here, but I sail on a 
lake/river, where the furthest you can be from the shore is about 1 km (0.5 nm) 
and when daysailing, you don’t go out in a dense fog. But I cannot imagine 
going 
offshore and not using one. Maybe I am too old.
> 
>Marek (in Ottawa)
> --
>
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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Marek Dziedzic]

I would say Speed first. It gives you enough that you can navigate (assuming 
that you have a compass (and a watch)).

I would drop Stereo from this list (we never have it on; I like the sound of 
sailing – I hope this does not open a can of worms)

I would put a GPS ahead of the autopilot, probably, mainly, because of the 
costs associated.

Marek

> In order?
> 1 Depth
> 2 VHF
> 3 Stereo
>4 Autopilot
> 4 GPS
> 5 Plotter
> 6 Speed
> 7 wind
> 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
> isn't the more valuable tool
> 9 SSB
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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Bill Coleman]

Interesting, I am a musicaholic, and even tho I have a nice radio and speakers 
on the boat, I never listen to the radio under sail. Maybe a few times a year 
when I am working on  the boat.  It just doesn’t work for me when sailing.  
Like my old man used to say, “Everyone’s different”

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 animated_favicon1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:14 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

 

I would say Speed first. It gives you enough that you can navigate (assuming 
that you have a compass (and a watch)).

 

I would drop Stereo from this list (we never have it on; I like the sound of 
sailing – I hope this does not open a can of worms)

 

I would put a GPS ahead of the autopilot, probably, mainly, because of the 
costs associated.

 

Marek

 

> In order?
> 1 Depth
> 2 VHF
> 3 Stereo

>4 Autopilot
> 4 GPS
> 5 Plotter
> 6 Speed
> 7 wind
> 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
> isn't the more valuable tool
> 9 SSB

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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Andrew Burton]

Since getting my iPad a couple of years ago, I haven't pulled out a paper
chart once. As you say, It's a great tool.
I have to admit that my sextant hasn't accompanied me on a passage since
about 2007 or 50,000 miles ago. I carry spare GPSs, but in the back of my
mind always is the possibility that the whole system may go down and then
what do I do? Well, I'm pretty confident of my ability to keep a good DR
and EP, and in my ability to stay out of trouble when approaching a
shoreline if I'm not confident of my position (which is pretty much always).

The bottom line is, I think that learning piloting--coastal navigation,
etc--is a higher priority than learning to use a sextant.

One little trick when approaching a shoreline without a position fix for
some time is to steer to one side of where you want to go. That way when
you see land, you know which way to turn to make your port. So if I want to
get to Charleston, I may aim for Hilton Head and when I see land, or it
starts getting shallow, I know to turn north in order to get to Charleston.
If I aim straight for where I want to go, and miss, I'm not sure which
direction to turn, the land being pretty featureless from offshore. This
tip is courtesy of Chichester from when he was flying his Gypsy Moth
biplane.

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Marek Dziedzic wrote:

>   I would say Speed first. It gives you enough that you can navigate
> (assuming that you have a compass (and a watch)).
>
> I would drop Stereo from this list (we never have it on; I like the sound
> of sailing – I hope this does not open a can of worms)
>
> I would put a GPS ahead of the autopilot, probably, mainly, because of the
> costs associated.
>
> Marek
>
> > In order?
> > 1 Depth
> > 2 VHF
> > 3 Stereo
> >4 Autopilot
> > 4 GPS
> > 5 Plotter
> > 6 Speed
> > 7 wind
> > 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
> > isn't the more valuable tool
> > 9 SSB
>
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>
>


-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone  +401 965 5260
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Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[OldSteveH]

Maybe all know this and maybe not - If you're towing a dinghy and your boat
holes and sinks, it will take the dinghy with it.
Unless you can untie or cut the painter really fast. In the midst of the
emergency when you're trying to figure out what happened, where the water is
coming in, if there is anything you can do about it, making the decision to
stay with or abandon ship - much happening all at once and in a short time.
With everything else going on I'm not confident I would get the painter
untied in time.

For those who have considered this, how do you attach your painter? Has
anyone ever experienced something like this?
A slip knot is not secure. A breakable link - what if it breaks when there's
no emergency? Is a sharp knife the best bet? Which means it cannot be
'nearby', it has to be with you. (Mine clips on my PFD)

I did my first cruise in 1985 and never thought of this in 29 years until
the Antigua trip in November, someone brought this up as an issue.

Comments?

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON





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Re: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[Rich Knowles]

Knife sounds good. I keep one in a plastic holster attached to the binnacle. 

Rich

> On Jan 16, 2014, at 10:30, OldSteveH  wrote:
> 
> Maybe all know this and maybe not - If you're towing a dinghy and your boat
> holes and sinks, it will take the dinghy with it.
> Unless you can untie or cut the painter really fast. In the midst of the
> emergency when you're trying to figure out what happened, where the water is
> coming in, if there is anything you can do about it, making the decision to
> stay with or abandon ship - much happening all at once and in a short time.
> With everything else going on I'm not confident I would get the painter
> untied in time.
> 
> For those who have considered this, how do you attach your painter? Has
> anyone ever experienced something like this?
> A slip knot is not secure. A breakable link - what if it breaks when there's
> no emergency? Is a sharp knife the best bet? Which means it cannot be
> 'nearby', it has to be with you. (Mine clips on my PFD)
> 
> I did my first cruise in 1985 and never thought of this in 29 years until
> the Antigua trip in November, someone brought this up as an issue.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Steve Hood
> S/V Diamond Girl
> C&C 34
> Lions Head ON
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[Bill Coleman]

If you were Robert Redford, Your boat, dingy and liferaft would all go down
while you were shaving.
Sorry, I know this was a serious post, sometimes I just can't help myself.

Bill Coleman
C&C 39 


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of OldSteveH
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:30 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

Maybe all know this and maybe not - If you're towing a dinghy and your boat
holes and sinks, it will take the dinghy with it.
Unless you can untie or cut the painter really fast. In the midst of the
emergency when you're trying to figure out what happened, where the water is
coming in, if there is anything you can do about it, making the decision to
stay with or abandon ship - much happening all at once and in a short time.
With everything else going on I'm not confident I would get the painter
untied in time.

For those who have considered this, how do you attach your painter? Has
anyone ever experienced something like this?
A slip knot is not secure. A breakable link - what if it breaks when there's
no emergency? Is a sharp knife the best bet? Which means it cannot be
'nearby', it has to be with you. (Mine clips on my PFD)

I did my first cruise in 1985 and never thought of this in 29 years until
the Antigua trip in November, someone brought this up as an issue.

Comments?

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON





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Re: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[Rich Knowles]

If you were Redford, you could probably walk on water and this would be moot. 

Rich

> On Jan 16, 2014, at 10:36, "Bill Coleman"  wrote:
> 
> If you were Robert Redford, Your boat, dingy and liferaft would all go down
> while you were shaving.
> Sorry, I know this was a serious post, sometimes I just can't help myself.
> 
> Bill Coleman
> C&C 39 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of OldSteveH
> Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:30 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat
> 
> Maybe all know this and maybe not - If you're towing a dinghy and your boat
> holes and sinks, it will take the dinghy with it.
> Unless you can untie or cut the painter really fast. In the midst of the
> emergency when you're trying to figure out what happened, where the water is
> coming in, if there is anything you can do about it, making the decision to
> stay with or abandon ship - much happening all at once and in a short time.
> With everything else going on I'm not confident I would get the painter
> untied in time.
> 
> For those who have considered this, how do you attach your painter? Has
> anyone ever experienced something like this?
> A slip knot is not secure. A breakable link - what if it breaks when there's
> no emergency? Is a sharp knife the best bet? Which means it cannot be
> 'nearby', it has to be with you. (Mine clips on my PFD)
> 
> I did my first cruise in 1985 and never thought of this in 29 years until
> the Antigua trip in November, someone brought this up as an issue.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Steve Hood
> S/V Diamond Girl
> C&C 34
> Lions Head ON
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[David]

I have always kept a knife at the mast and binnacle.   I have yet to sink the 
boat to test the binnacle knife but we did save my brand new kevlar 150 from 
self-destructing with the mast knife.


David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


> From: oldste...@sympatico.ca
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 09:30:20 -0500
> Subject: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat
> 
> Maybe all know this and maybe not - If you're towing a dinghy and your boat
> holes and sinks, it will take the dinghy with it.
> Unless you can untie or cut the painter really fast. In the midst of the
> emergency when you're trying to figure out what happened, where the water is
> coming in, if there is anything you can do about it, making the decision to
> stay with or abandon ship - much happening all at once and in a short time.
> With everything else going on I'm not confident I would get the painter
> untied in time.
> 
> For those who have considered this, how do you attach your painter? Has
> anyone ever experienced something like this?
> A slip knot is not secure. A breakable link - what if it breaks when there's
> no emergency? Is a sharp knife the best bet? Which means it cannot be
> 'nearby', it has to be with you. (Mine clips on my PFD)
> 
> I did my first cruise in 1985 and never thought of this in 29 years until
> the Antigua trip in November, someone brought this up as an issue.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Steve Hood
> S/V Diamond Girl
> C&C 34
> Lions Head ON
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[dwight]

For me: compass and paper charts, dividers and parallel rule always on board
as well as clock and barometer

 

1.   VHF (safety for me and monitoring channel 16 always while
underway to lend a hand to others if needed)

2.   depth

3.   gps chart plotter

4.   boat speed

5.   radar.we get a lot of fog offshore around here and it moves
in quickly sometimes

6.   wind instruments

7.   autopilot

8.   handheld gps with proper charts installed for backup

9.   stereo ( but not while sailing)

 

The chart plotter ranks higher for me because I and all new sailors I take
on board like to know where they are on the water most of the time.it also
gives SOG and exact lat / long location and Rosalie became very comfortable
with steering once she had a chart plotter in front of her.it does give
recorded depths and she likes that.

 

I think the rankings may depend on where you sail (traffic considerations
and landmarks) and how far away from home water you go (unfamiliar waters I
mean).

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek
Dziedzic
Sent: January 16, 2014 10:14 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

 

I would say Speed first. It gives you enough that you can navigate (assuming
that you have a compass (and a watch)).

 

I would drop Stereo from this list (we never have it on; I like the sound of
sailing - I hope this does not open a can of worms)

 

I would put a GPS ahead of the autopilot, probably, mainly, because of the
costs associated.

 

Marek

 

> In order?
> 1 Depth
> 2 VHF
> 3 Stereo

>4 Autopilot
> 4 GPS
> 5 Plotter
> 6 Speed
> 7 wind
> 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
> isn't the more valuable tool
> 9 SSB

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Re: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[Steve Thomas]

An automatic detachment device might not be of much use for a dingy used as a 
liferaft unless it were also automatically rigged to
deploy a sea anchor. Unless conditions were calm, one would have to be very 
lucky not to have it blow away from you.

I think I can detach a line properly tied to a cleat as quickly as I can cut it 
but I admit that I have not done the experiment.

Steve Thomas
c&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of
OldSteveH
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:30 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat


Maybe all know this and maybe not - If you're towing a dinghy and your boat
holes and sinks, it will take the dinghy with it.
Unless you can untie or cut the painter really fast. In the midst of the
emergency when you're trying to figure out what happened, where the water is
coming in, if there is anything you can do about it, making the decision to
stay with or abandon ship - much happening all at once and in a short time.
With everything else going on I'm not confident I would get the painter
untied in time.

For those who have considered this, how do you attach your painter? Has
anyone ever experienced something like this?
A slip knot is not secure. A breakable link - what if it breaks when there's
no emergency? Is a sharp knife the best bet? Which means it cannot be
'nearby', it has to be with you. (Mine clips on my PFD)

I did my first cruise in 1985 and never thought of this in 29 years until
the Antigua trip in November, someone brought this up as an issue.

Comments?

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON





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Re: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[Russ & Melody]

If you have a concern then put a knife in the dinghy, similar to 
having one at the mast and one in the cockpit.


My preference is a fixed blade (not folding).

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 06:30 AM 16/01/2014, you wrote:

Maybe all know this and maybe not - If you're towing a dinghy and your boat
holes and sinks, it will take the dinghy with it.
Unless you can untie or cut the painter really fast. In the midst of the
emergency when you're trying to figure out what happened, where the water is
coming in, if there is anything you can do about it, making the decision to
stay with or abandon ship - much happening all at once and in a short time.
With everything else going on I'm not confident I would get the painter
untied in time.

For those who have considered this, how do you attach your painter? Has
anyone ever experienced something like this?
A slip knot is not secure. A breakable link - what if it breaks when there's
no emergency? Is a sharp knife the best bet? Which means it cannot be
'nearby', it has to be with you. (Mine clips on my PFD)

I did my first cruise in 1985 and never thought of this in 29 years until
the Antigua trip in November, someone brought this up as an issue.

Comments?

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON





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Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints (long)

[Della Barba, Joe]

This is a good discussion. This has been a big issue in the flying world too.  
Airplanes now are EXACTLY on the charted airway, not just within a few miles of 
it. This caused a head-on collision down in Brazil between a 737 and an Embraer 
jet. A lot of restricted airspace violations come from setting the destination 
waypoint and not bothering to look at what is between here and there.

I like to use OpenCPN which allows very easy point-and-click setting of 
waypoints. I do not couple the autopilot. I like to stay in the loop and do the 
cross checking and corrections myself. One other thing to be way of – 
especially on mapping GPSs with small screens, is a lot of things vanish when 
you zoom out. The entire crew of a boat in the race to Ensenada (iirc?) died 
when they plotted a course through an island and apparently they all fell 
asleep. Their tracker showed a ruler straight line right into the island that 
would have gone straight to the finish line.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Della Barba, Joe]

We did something similar heading to Bermuda. We could get a decent latitude 
from a sunsight, so we made SURE we were north and clear of the reefs that lie 
out to the west side of the island. We then followed an RDF bearing south to 
Saint George's. Speaking of biplanes, I was delivering a plane from New England 
home to Baltimore and the nav radio crapped out. Over Block Island fog/haze 
settled in below me so I could only see straight down. I didn't want to miss 
Long Island and not know if I was east or west of it, so I "tacked" out over 
the Atlantic and then back in to Long Island. I *knew* when I crossed the beach 
I had to turn left to head for New York.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Burton
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:19 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

Since getting my iPad a couple of years ago, I haven't pulled out a paper chart 
once. As you say, It's a great tool.
I have to admit that my sextant hasn't accompanied me on a passage since about 
2007 or 50,000 miles ago. I carry spare GPSs, but in the back of my mind always 
is the possibility that the whole system may go down and then what do I do? 
Well, I'm pretty confident of my ability to keep a good DR and EP, and in my 
ability to stay out of trouble when approaching a shoreline if I'm not 
confident of my position (which is pretty much always).
The bottom line is, I think that learning piloting--coastal navigation, etc--is 
a higher priority than learning to use a sextant.

One little trick when approaching a shoreline without a position fix for some 
time is to steer to one side of where you want to go. That way when you see 
land, you know which way to turn to make your port. So if I want to get to 
Charleston, I may aim for Hilton Head and when I see land, or it starts getting 
shallow, I know to turn north in order to get to Charleston. If I aim straight 
for where I want to go, and miss, I'm not sure which direction to turn, the 
land being pretty featureless from offshore. This tip is courtesy of Chichester 
from when he was flying his Gypsy Moth biplane.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Marek Dziedzic 
mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
I would say Speed first. It gives you enough that you can navigate (assuming 
that you have a compass (and a watch)).

I would drop Stereo from this list (we never have it on; I like the sound of 
sailing - I hope this does not open a can of worms)

I would put a GPS ahead of the autopilot, probably, mainly, because of the 
costs associated.

Marek

> In order?
> 1 Depth
> 2 VHF
> 3 Stereo
>4 Autopilot
> 4 GPS
> 5 Plotter
> 6 Speed
> 7 wind
> 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
> isn't the more valuable tool
> 9 SSB

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61 W Narragansett Ave
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USA 02840
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phone  +401 965 5260
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Re: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[Della Barba, Joe]

Knife?
I could my dinghy line in about 10 seconds if motivated by being knee-deep!

Joe Della Barba 
Coquina

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Re: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[Rich Knowles]

Fear makes the teeth sharp 

Rich

> On Jan 16, 2014, at 12:14, "Della Barba, Joe"  wrote:
> 
> Knife?
> I could my dinghy line in about 10 seconds if motivated by being knee-deep!
> 
> Joe Della Barba 
> Coquina
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Stus-List Fwd: See Tomorrow's Fantastic Friday Deal Today

[Joel Aronson]

-- Forwarded message --
From: *West Marine* 
Date: Thursday, January 16, 2014
Subject: See Tomorrow's Fantastic Friday Deal Today
To: joel.aron...@gmail.com


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©2014 West Marine Products, Inc. All rights reserved.



-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints

[Michael Brown]

I upgraded from my ST4000 Autohelm to a SPX-5 with P70 control head last 
summer.  The main reason
was the ST4000 was challenged holding a tight heading in bigger wave / higher 
wind days. Although
suitable for my purposes it did not hold on course accurately either, which at 
the time I did not realize was
an advantage ;-)

As a side note, the SPX-5 core pack does work with the original ST4000 fluxgate 
compass, rudder sensor
and wheel drive. I did purchase the kit with new pieces but thought I would try 
the old stuff first before
selling it so that I could claim it was working correctly and tested.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1


 
Message: 3 
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 11:07:55 -0500 
From: "Della Barba, Joe"  
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints (long) 
Message-ID: 
     <1073606396712942aee54d9a960e45a718c9654...@hq-mb-07.ba.ad.ssa.gov> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
This is a good discussion. This has been a big issue in the flying world too.  
Airplanes now are EXACTLY on the charted airway, not just within a few miles of 
it. This caused a head-on collision down in Brazil between a 737 and an Embraer 
jet. A lot of restricted airspace violations come from setting the destination 
waypoint and not bothering to look at what is between here and there. 
 
I like to use OpenCPN which allows very easy point-and-click setting of 
waypoints. I do not couple the autopilot. I like to stay in the loop and do the 
cross checking and corrections myself. One other thing to be way of ? 
especially on mapping GPSs with small screens, is a lot of things vanish when 
you zoom out. The entire crew of a boat in the race to Ensenada (iirc?) died 
when they plotted a course through an island and apparently they all fell 
asleep. Their tracker showed a ruler straight line right into the island that 
would have gone straight to the finish line. 
 
Joe Della Barba 
Coquina 

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Re: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[Jim Watts]

I have a super-sharp serrated "net and line knife" made specifically for
line that cuts anything very quickly, it lives on the binnacle. The dinghy
is actually held by a large Harken cam cleat, with the end of the painter
through the hole in a stanchion cleat and secured with a figure 8 stopper
knot.
In use (and this actually works), the painter is long enough for the excess
to be tossed into the dinghy. From there, we can undo the figure 8 when
we're ready, pull on that end, and it pops it out of the cam cleat. Because
the painter is around the lower rail of the stern pulpit we can keep
connected to the boat until there are no other options.


Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On 16 January 2014 08:19, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> Fear makes the teeth sharp
>
> Rich
>
> > On Jan 16, 2014, at 12:14, "Della Barba, Joe" 
> wrote:
> >
> > Knife?
> > I could my dinghy line in about 10 seconds if motivated by being
> knee-deep!
> >
> > Joe Della Barba
> > Coquina
> >
> > ___
> > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
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Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints

[Steve Sharkey]

Are you seeing significantly better performance from the SPX-5 vs the ST4000?

Steve Sharkey

> On Jan 16, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Michael Brown  wrote:
> 
> I upgraded from my ST4000 Autohelm to a SPX-5 with P70 control head last 
> summer.  The main reason
> was the ST4000 was challenged holding a tight heading in bigger wave / higher 
> wind days. Although
> suitable for my purposes it did not hold on course accurately either, which 
> at the time I did not realize was
> an advantage ;-)
> 
> As a side note, the SPX-5 core pack does work with the original ST4000 
> fluxgate compass, rudder sensor
> and wheel drive. I did purchase the kit with new pieces but thought I would 
> try the old stuff first before
> selling it so that I could claim it was working correctly and tested.
> 
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C&C 30-1
> 
> 
> 
> Message: 3 
> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 11:07:55 -0500 
> From: "Della Barba, Joe"  
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints (long) 
> Message-ID: 
> <1073606396712942aee54d9a960e45a718c9654...@hq-mb-07.ba.ad.ssa.gov> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
> 
> This is a good discussion. This has been a big issue in the flying world too. 
>  Airplanes now are EXACTLY on the charted airway, not just within a few miles 
> of it. This caused a head-on collision down in Brazil between a 737 and an 
> Embraer jet. A lot of restricted airspace violations come from setting the 
> destination waypoint and not bothering to look at what is between here and 
> there. 
> 
> I like to use OpenCPN which allows very easy point-and-click setting of 
> waypoints. I do not couple the autopilot. I like to stay in the loop and do 
> the cross checking and corrections myself. One other thing to be way of ? 
> especially on mapping GPSs with small screens, is a lot of things vanish when 
> you zoom out. The entire crew of a boat in the race to Ensenada (iirc?) died 
> when they plotted a course through an island and apparently they all fell 
> asleep. Their tracker showed a ruler straight line right into the island that 
> would have gone straight to the finish line. 
> 
> Joe Della Barba 
> Coquina 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Stus-List West line sail

[Joel Aronson]

All,

Tomorrow West has 40% off all line!  I think they do this twice a year.

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[Josh Muckley]

What about a hydrostatic release like those used on the prainters of
inflatable life rafts?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
Maybe all know this and maybe not - If you're towing a dinghy and your boat
holes and sinks, it will take the dinghy with it.
Unless you can untie or cut the painter really fast. In the midst of the
emergency when you're trying to figure out what happened, where the water is
coming in, if there is anything you can do about it, making the decision to
stay with or abandon ship - much happening all at once and in a short time.
With everything else going on I'm not confident I would get the painter
untied in time.

For those who have considered this, how do you attach your painter? Has
anyone ever experienced something like this?
A slip knot is not secure. A breakable link - what if it breaks when there's
no emergency? Is a sharp knife the best bet? Which means it cannot be
'nearby', it has to be with you. (Mine clips on my PFD)

I did my first cruise in 1985 and never thought of this in 29 years until
the Antigua trip in November, someone brought this up as an issue.

Comments?

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON





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Re: Stus-List Redundant instrumentation / tools

[Don Newman]

Run up the coast from Florida to NY and you will be 100 miles offshore.
I wouldn't want to try to find Bermuda with DR only.

If your DR is current then you should be OK for most coastal runs. But it is so 
easy to learn basic sun sights and the sextant is such a great tool for racing 
on longer courses. 30 seconds tells if you are gaining or loosing on a 
competitor and many other uses. 


Don Newman
C&C 44

> On Jan 15, 2014, at 16:21, Curtis  wrote:
> 
> Hold on Don, I'm new to the world of sailing. I would like to learn all that 
> I can as soon as I can. I have spent a great many hours looking up stuff on 
> Google and U-tube. But very little time on sex-tents I want to and will learn 
> how they did it back in the OLD day. I don't think I will be freaking out to 
> make a coastal run from Charleston to say St Augustine without knowing how to 
> read the stars. I mean really?  If you are doing long passage's. sure. But 
> the most of us are not going to Spain via the Philippians. I have a new 
> Garmin echo50s for Christmas and I now have a back up Garmin 215 and A Garmin 
> battery operated 76s. I feel safe with this. I do keep soft plugs and a 
> rubber hammer. 
> Just saying its good to feel this way. Nobody likes change. My dad was like 
> this about his type writer. Said the ned word processors would kill the 
> writer. and work will be lost. Bla, Bla,.Bla 
> My ¢ 
>  
> 
> Cheers   
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Don Newman  wrote:
>> Absolutely right Martin.
>> 
>> Too many years ago we were delivering a Landfall 48 from the Lyford Key to 
>> New York. A new boat that had been south one winter with all the latest 
>> toys.  Loran, course computer, radar etc.  The guys were giving me the gears 
>> about not needing my sextant.
>> 
>> The first waves out of port washed the decks and ran through the deck Prism 
>> into the electronics bay, by the 4th wave everything was out.  I pulled out 
>> the sextant and said "This still works". 
>>  
>> Even today, with everyone having two spare GPSs in their pockets and another 
>> on their watch, I wouldn't go offshore without it.  A close lightning strike 
>> and all electronics on the boat could be taken out. I can't believe that 
>> some people don't even keep a DR log up to date updated with regular GPS 
>> fixes.  How else could you tell if you are getting strange values from the 
>> magic box?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Martin DeYoung  
>>> wrote:
>>> >>… found none of the boats electronics working.<<
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I still carry a lead line, paper charts, battery operated GPS and VHF, and 
>>> a sextant if going offshore.  I rarely carry my very old school Walker 
>>> Taffrail Log but I have been looking for a 70’s Heathkit RDF to add to my 
>>> old boat stuff museum.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Back in ’93 I was skipper on a delivery (Hawaii to Seattle) on a custom 46’ 
>>> sloop.  A day or so out of Honolulu the engine ceased to function.  When 
>>> trouble shooting we found the owner had incorrectly wired a new battery 
>>> into the bank in such a way that only 1 small starting battery was charged.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The winds were un-characteristically light for early September making the 
>>> choice to carry on vs. a downwind trip back to Hawaii the lessor of two 
>>> weevils.  To conserve the very limited 12 volt supply on board I shut 
>>> everything off.  Lights, nav gear, water pumps etc.  The crew grumbled but 
>>> all became much better “by feel” sailors, especially at night.  I did have 
>>> a AA battery powered GPS that I turned on once a day for a fix.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> After a few days of very creative engine repairs including making our own 
>>> replacement valve springs.  We used the sheet winches to turn the engine 
>>> over (think a lawnmower pull starter) to save 12 volt power for one engine 
>>> start attempt.  We did get the engine to run on 3 cylinders to charge 12 V 
>>> batteries and chill the refrig and freezer.  We could motor at slow speed 
>>> in flat water.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Experiences like that one reinforce the habit of keeping old school 
>>> navigation equipment and charts/books on board whenever going any place 
>>> interesting or where the charts state “here there be monsters”.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Martin
>>> 
>>> Calypso
>>> 
>>> 1971 C&C 43
>>> 
>>> Seattle
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Curtis
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 10:10 AM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Redundent instrumentation / tools
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I love the fact that I will have some back up;s to back ups. Plus paper 
>>> charts and hand held Garmin 76 It gives me comfort to know that when done 
>>> with this process I will now all of my equipment. Before i sail.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>> CnC-List@c

Re: Stus-List Painter Attachment to Boat

[Colin Kilgour]

I think you're over thinking it.  A knife would certainly do the trick, but
you'd probably just untie it.

(BTW: if you DO have a liferaft on board, make sure it is tied to the boat
securely BEFORE you deploy it.  Then, don't cut it free until you're safely
in the raft.  There's nothing worse than launching your raft and then
watching as it drifts away.)

Cheers,
Colin



On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 4:07 PM, Josh Muckley  wrote:

> What about a hydrostatic release like those used on the prainters of
> inflatable life rafts?
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> Maybe all know this and maybe not - If you're towing a dinghy and your boat
> holes and sinks, it will take the dinghy with it.
> Unless you can untie or cut the painter really fast. In the midst of the
> emergency when you're trying to figure out what happened, where the water
> is
> coming in, if there is anything you can do about it, making the decision to
> stay with or abandon ship - much happening all at once and in a short time.
> With everything else going on I'm not confident I would get the painter
> untied in time.
>
> For those who have considered this, how do you attach your painter? Has
> anyone ever experienced something like this?
> A slip knot is not secure. A breakable link - what if it breaks when
> there's
> no emergency? Is a sharp knife the best bet? Which means it cannot be
> 'nearby', it has to be with you. (Mine clips on my PFD)
>
> I did my first cruise in 1985 and never thought of this in 29 years until
> the Antigua trip in November, someone brought this up as an issue.
>
> Comments?
>
> Steve Hood
> S/V Diamond Girl
> C&C 34
> Lions Head ON
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
> ___
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Redundant instrumentation / tools

[Andrew Burton]

True, Don. and depending on how far away I am, I to doubt I'd find Bermuda,
so on to my destination...unless I had a portable radio I could make use as
a makeshift RDF, or was within 50 miles and could get Bermuda Radio to give
me a bearing on my VHF signal.

Given all the crap I have to pack on these trips, not having to take a
sextant along--and get it through security without some bozo TSA agent
picking it up by the arm and then getting it in the overhead bin without it
being banged around, etc.--saves a lot of trouble.

 I can use a hand-bearing compass to tell whether someone's gaining or
losing


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Don Newman  wrote:

> Run up the coast from Florida to NY and you will be 100 miles offshore.
> I wouldn't want to try to find Bermuda with DR only.
>
> If your DR is current then you should be OK for most coastal runs. But it
> is so easy to learn basic sun sights and the sextant is such a great tool
> for racing on longer courses. 30 seconds tells if you are gaining or
> loosing on a competitor and many other uses.
>
>
> Don Newman
> C&C 44
>
> On Jan 15, 2014, at 16:21, Curtis  wrote:
>
> Hold on Don, I'm new to the world of sailing. I would like to learn all
> that I can as soon as I can. I have spent a great many hours looking up
> stuff on Google and U-tube. But very little time on sex-tents I want to and
> will learn how they did it back in the OLD day. I don't think I will be
> freaking out to make a coastal run from Charleston to say St Augustine
> without knowing how to read the stars. I mean really?  If you are doing
> long passage's. sure. But the most of us are not going to Spain via the
> Philippians. I have a new Garmin echo50s for Christmas and I now have a
> back up Garmin 215 and A Garmin battery operated 76s. I feel safe with
> this. I do keep soft plugs and a rubber hammer.
> Just saying its good to feel this way. Nobody likes change. My dad was
> like this about his type writer. Said the ned word processors would kill
> the writer. and work will be lost. Bla, Bla,.Bla
> My ¢
>
>
> Cheers
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Don Newman  wrote:
>
>> Absolutely right Martin.
>>
>> Too many years ago we were delivering a Landfall 48 from the Lyford Key
>> to New York. A new boat that had been south one winter with all the latest
>> toys.  Loran, course computer, radar etc.  The guys were giving me the
>> gears about not needing my sextant.
>>
>> The first waves out of port washed the decks and ran through the deck
>> Prism into the electronics bay, by the 4th wave everything was out.  I
>> pulled out the sextant and said "This still works".
>>
>> Even today, with everyone having two spare GPSs in their pockets and
>> another on their watch, I wouldn't go offshore without it.  A close
>> lightning strike and all electronics on the boat could be taken out. I
>> can't believe that some people don't even keep a DR log up to date updated
>> with regular GPS fixes.  How else could you tell if you are getting strange
>> values from the magic box?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Martin DeYoung 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  >>… found none of the boats electronics working.<<
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I still carry a lead line, paper charts, battery operated GPS and VHF,
>>> and a sextant if going offshore.  I rarely carry my very old school Walker
>>> Taffrail Log but I have been looking for a 70’s Heathkit RDF to add to my
>>> old boat stuff museum.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Back in ’93 I was skipper on a delivery (Hawaii to Seattle) on a custom
>>> 46’ sloop.  A day or so out of Honolulu the engine ceased to function.
>>>  When trouble shooting we found the owner had incorrectly wired a new
>>> battery into the bank in such a way that only 1 small starting battery was
>>> charged.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The winds were un-characteristically light for early September making
>>> the choice to carry on vs. a downwind trip back to Hawaii the lessor of two
>>> weevils.  To conserve the very limited 12 volt supply on board I shut
>>> everything off.  Lights, nav gear, water pumps etc.  The crew grumbled but
>>> all became much better “by feel” sailors, especially at night.  I did have
>>> a AA battery powered GPS that I turned on once a day for a fix.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After a few days of very creative engine repairs including making our
>>> own replacement valve springs.  We used the sheet winches to turn the
>>> engine over (think a lawnmower pull starter) to save 12 volt power for one
>>> engine start attempt.  We did get the engine to run on 3 cylinders to
>>> charge 12 V batteries and chill the refrig and freezer.  We could motor at
>>> slow speed in flat water.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Experiences like that one reinforce the habit of keeping old school
>>> navigation equipment and charts/books on board whenever going any place
>>> interesting or where the charts state “here there be monsters”.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> Calypso
>>>
>>> 1971 C&C 43
>>>
>>> Seattle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CnC-List [mailt

Re: Stus-List Redundant instrumentation / tools

[Don Newman]

The odds are slim but you could loose all electronics including that transistor 
radio from a close lightning strike and a plastic sextant is cheap and light. 

Working on computers since 1965 has destroyed any faith I have in any 
electronic device working when I really need it. 

I am sure you will always find a safe harbour but we need to encourage everyone 
to plan ahead and understand the basic tools first. 

Fair winds and calm seas. 


Don Newman
C&C 44

>  wrote:
> 
> True, Don. and depending on how far away I am, I to doubt I'd find Bermuda, 
> so on to my destination...unless I had a portable radio I could make use as a 
> makeshift RDF, or was within 50 miles and could get Bermuda Radio to give me 
> a bearing on my VHF signal.
> 
> Given all the crap I have to pack on these trips, not having to take a 
> sextant along--and get it through security without some bozo TSA agent 
> picking it up by the arm and then getting it in the overhead bin without it 
> being banged around, etc.--saves a lot of trouble.
> 
>  I can use a hand-bearing compass to tell whether someone's gaining or losing
> 
> 

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Re: Stus-List Redundant instrumentation / tools

[Andrew Burton]

I own a nice 1954 Plath sextant that I used to make my living for a couple
of decades. The novelty has kind of warn off. Remember, it's not just the
sextant, but at least two volumes of HO 249 plus the almanac.
That being said, I'd never tell a crewmember there wasn't room for their
sextant aboard any boat I was on.

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Don Newman  wrote:

> The odds are slim but you could loose all electronics including that
> transistor radio from a close lightning strike and a plastic sextant is
> cheap and light.
>
> Working on computers since 1965 has destroyed any faith I have in any
> electronic device working when I really need it.
>
> I am sure you will always find a safe harbour but we need to encourage
> everyone to plan ahead and understand the basic tools first.
>
> Fair winds and calm seas.
>
>
> Don Newman
> C&C 44
>
> >  wrote:
> >
> > True, Don. and depending on how far away I am, I to doubt I'd find
> Bermuda, so on to my destination...unless I had a portable radio I could
> make use as a makeshift RDF, or was within 50 miles and could get Bermuda
> Radio to give me a bearing on my VHF signal.
> >
> > Given all the crap I have to pack on these trips, not having to take a
> sextant along--and get it through security without some bozo TSA agent
> picking it up by the arm and then getting it in the overhead bin without it
> being banged around, etc.--saves a lot of trouble.
> >
> >  I can use a hand-bearing compass to tell whether someone's gaining or
> losing
> >
> >
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>



-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
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phone  +401 965 5260
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Re: Stus-List 'round the World Non-stop Alone Attempt Abandoned

[Colin Kilgour]

Yep.


On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Joel Aronson wrote:

> and Lyman Morse who built it.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Colin Kilgour 
> wrote:
>
>> I think the folks at Farr have some 'splaining to do...
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure he's disappointed:(
>>>
>>> Rich
>>>
>>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 22:34, "bobmor99 ."  wrote:
>>>
>>> Not C&C related, but the 76-year-old sailor from down the road in St
>>> Augustine abandoned his attempt to sail non-stop around the world. His
>>> Farr-designed 63-footer had some serious rigging issues and he is bailing
>>> out in Capetown.
>>> http://stanleyparis.com/?cat=2
>>> Bob M
>>> Ox 33-1
>>> Jax, FL
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
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Re: Stus-List Redundant instrumentation / tools

[Jim Watts]

On our latest cruise, we put the portable GPS and one of the VHF handhelds
into the oven whenever there was any electrical activity. Better chance
than zero.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On 16 January 2014 14:24, Andrew Burton  wrote:

> I own a nice 1954 Plath sextant that I used to make my living for a couple
> of decades. The novelty has kind of warn off. Remember, it's not just the
> sextant, but at least two volumes of HO 249 plus the almanac.
> That being said, I'd never tell a crewmember there wasn't room for their
> sextant aboard any boat I was on.
>
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Don Newman  wrote:
>
>> The odds are slim but you could loose all electronics including that
>> transistor radio from a close lightning strike and a plastic sextant is
>> cheap and light.
>>
>> Working on computers since 1965 has destroyed any faith I have in any
>> electronic device working when I really need it.
>>
>> I am sure you will always find a safe harbour but we need to encourage
>> everyone to plan ahead and understand the basic tools first.
>>
>> Fair winds and calm seas.
>>
>>
>> Don Newman
>> C&C 44
>>
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > True, Don. and depending on how far away I am, I to doubt I'd find
>> Bermuda, so on to my destination...unless I had a portable radio I could
>> make use as a makeshift RDF, or was within 50 miles and could get Bermuda
>> Radio to give me a bearing on my VHF signal.
>> >
>> > Given all the crap I have to pack on these trips, not having to take a
>> sextant along--and get it through security without some bozo TSA agent
>> picking it up by the arm and then getting it in the overhead bin without it
>> being banged around, etc.--saves a lot of trouble.
>> >
>> >  I can use a hand-bearing compass to tell whether someone's gaining or
>> losing
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett Ave
> Newport, RI
> USA 02840
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> phone  +401 965 5260
>
> ___
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> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Redundant instrumentation / tools

[Dennis C.]

http://www.amazon.com/Antistatic-Bags-Resealable-6X10-Pack/dp/B000BSN274


Dennis C.


>
> From: Jim Watts 
>To: 1 CnC List  
>Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 5:43 PM
>Subject: Re: Stus-List Redundant instrumentation / tools
> 
>
>
>On our latest cruise, we put the portable GPS and one of the VHF handhelds 
>into the oven whenever there was any electrical activity. Better chance than 
>zero. 
>
>
>
>Jim Watts
>Paradigm Shift
>C&C 35 Mk III
>Victoria, BC
>
>
>
>On 16 January 2014 14:24, Andrew Burton  wrote:
>
>I own a nice 1954 Plath sextant that I used to make my living for a couple of 
>decades. The novelty has kind of warn off. Remember, it's not just the 
>sextant, but at least two volumes of HO 249 plus the almanac. 
>>That being said, I'd never tell a crewmember there wasn't room for their 
>>sextant aboard any boat I was on.
>>
>>Andy
>>C&C 40
>>Peregrine
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Don Newman  wrote:
>>
>>The odds are slim but you could loose all electronics including that 
>>transistor radio from a close lightning strike and a plastic sextant is cheap 
>>and light.
>>>
>>>Working on computers since 1965 has destroyed any faith I have in any 
>>>electronic device working when I really need it.
>>>
>>>I am sure you will always find a safe harbour but we need to encourage 
>>>everyone to plan ahead and understand the basic tools first.
>>>
>>>Fair winds and calm seas.
>>>
>>>
>>>Don Newman
>>>C&C 44
>>>
>>>
  wrote:

 True, Don. and depending on how far away I am, I to doubt I'd find 
 Bermuda, so on to my destination...unless I had a portable radio I could 
 make use as a makeshift RDF, or was within 50 miles and could get Bermuda 
 Radio to give me a bearing on my VHF signal.

 Given all the crap I have to pack on these trips, not having to take a 
 sextant along--and get it through security without some bozo TSA agent 
 picking it up by the arm and then getting it in the overhead bin without 
 it being banged around, etc.--saves a lot of trouble.

  I can use a hand-bearing compass to tell whether someone's gaining or 
 losing


>>>
>>>
>>>___
>>>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>Andrew Burton
>>61 W Narragansett Ave
>>Newport, RI
>>USA 02840
>>http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>>phone  +401 965 5260 
>>___
>>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>
>
>___
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Redundant instrumentation / tools

[Russ & Melody]

Couldn't you have the SR tables & almanac on a PDA, mini-computer or phone :)

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 02:24 PM 16/01/2014, you wrote:
I own a nice 1954 Plath sextant that I used to make my living for a 
couple of decades. The novelty has kind of warn off. Remember, it's 
not just the sextant, but at least two volumes of HO 249 plus the almanac.
That being said, I'd never tell a crewmember there wasn't room for 
their sextant aboard any boat I was on.


Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Don Newman 
<donrnew...@gmail.com> wrote:
The odds are slim but you could loose all electronics including that 
transistor radio from a close lightning strike and a plastic sextant 
is cheap and light.


Working on computers since 1965 has destroyed any faith I have in 
any electronic device working when I really need it.


I am sure you will always find a safe harbour but we need to 
encourage everyone to plan ahead and understand the basic tools first.


Fair winds and calm seas.


Don Newman
C&C 44

> <a.burton.sai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> True, Don. and depending on how far away I am, I to doubt I'd 
find Bermuda, so on to my destination...unless I had a portable 
radio I could make use as a makeshift RDF, or was within 50 miles 
and could get Bermuda Radio to give me a bearing on my VHF signal.

>
> Given all the crap I have to pack on these trips, not having to 
take a sextant along--and get it through security without some bozo 
TSA agent picking it up by the arm and then getting it in the 
overhead bin without it being banged around, etc.--saves a lot of trouble.

>
>  I can use a hand-bearing compass to tell whether someone's 
gaining or losing

>
>

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--
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone  +401 965 5260
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Stus-List redundant items

[Jimmy Kelly]

it has been mentioned use of portable transistor radio to find bermuda from
mainland coast USAback in late 70s ..80s many skippers going to
windward islands went by way of bermuda...turned right near bermuda
..sailed directly south about 900 nm then sse to islands...we had b&g rdf
and sailed the null to bermuda more than a few times on deliveries...simple
& always reliable..especially if had couple cheap transistor
radios...really quite simple.never used autopilots  to much electric
draw   ...loran  c  was degraded as travelled southnice to have gps
today to back up your  estimated position...we actually sailed to
bermuda...where today seem to meet a lot of sailboats  motoring to
destinations..just a note that really ,  alot has not changed  when
sailing long distance atlantic offshore  just more gadgets from west marine
to buy ...bigger fuel tanks..etc
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Stus-List storing handheld gps ..radios etc.

[Jimmy Kelly]

have not heard of oven storage before..would like to hear more...i was hit
by lightning   a number years a go  ...only electrics not totally fried was
 spare  b&g  rdf...was not trailing ground  from shrouds  as was   & is
still  a habit  thanks.
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Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints

[Michael Brown]

Short answer is yes.

A bit more detail...  The ST4000 works OK until the amplitude of
waves gives us a "corkscrew" path upwind. I played with various
setting, like damping, and added a rudder sensor. The ST4000
would steer but get out of cadence with the waves, then over or
under correct. Not a big problem well off the wind or cruising,
but I mainly race. Under spinnaker with a quartering sea I would
be concerned about an accidental gybe.

The SPX-5 has an easy to adjust response setting. When set to
responsive, upwind in 3' waves, 18 kts TWS it will hold a very tight
course. Could set it for around 32 degrees AWA, think it would
stray maybe +/- 2 degrees. I tried it downwind, hands on the wheel
and ready to dis-engage the wheel drive, under spinnaker in
20 - 24 kts TWS. The SPX-5 kept a steady course even when the
stern started to lift and surf.

The longer answer is that when racing solo under more exciting
conditions the ST4000 was not useful. The SPX-5 does a competent
job and I trust it enough to go forward and change sails.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1

PS: I can post more information about the installation and getting the
Seatalk NG working with ST50 instruments on Seatalk 1 if anyone is
interested.




Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 14:52:33 -0500 
From: Steve Sharkey  
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Cc: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints 
Message-ID:  
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 
Are you seeing significantly better performance from the SPX-5 vs the ST4000? 
 
Steve Sharkey 
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Re: Stus-List storing handheld gps ..radios etc.

[Jim Watts]

The concept, IIRC, is that the metal oven acts as a Faraday cage when it's
closed and there is no entry point for a sideflash. I'm sure someone will
correct me here.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On 16 January 2014 16:42, Jimmy Kelly  wrote:

> have not heard of oven storage before..would like to hear more...i was hit
> by lightning   a number years a go  ...only electrics not totally fried was
>  spare  b&g  rdf...was not trailing ground  from shrouds  as was   & is
> still  a habit  thanks.
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
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Re: Stus-List storing handheld gps ..radios etc.

[Rich Knowles]

Spot on. 

Rich

> On Jan 16, 2014, at 20:58, Jim Watts  wrote:
> 
> The concept, IIRC, is that the metal oven acts as a Faraday cage when it's 
> closed and there is no entry point for a sideflash. I'm sure someone will 
> correct me here. 
> 
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C&C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
> 
> 
>> On 16 January 2014 16:42, Jimmy Kelly  wrote:
>> have not heard of oven storage before..would like to hear more...i was hit 
>> by lightning   a number years a go  ...only electrics not totally fried was  
>> spare  b&g  rdf...was not trailing ground  from shrouds  as was   & is still 
>>  a habit  thanks.
>> 
>> ___
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>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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>> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Brad Crawford]

Andrew,
I have used my iPad most of the time as a chartplotter also, using Navionics, 
we also carry back up paper charts.  So far our long distance trips have been 
to the San Juan islands and Gulf Islands of British Columbia.  Just out of 
curiosity, how far off shore have you used your iPad as a navigational tool, 
and have you always had cell coverage.

Brad
C&C 36
Dora Pearl 
Seattle

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 16, 2014, at 6:19 AM, Andrew Burton  wrote:
> 
> Since getting my iPad a couple of years ago, I haven't pulled out a paper 
> chart once. As you say, It's a great tool.
> I have to admit that my sextant hasn't accompanied me on a passage since 
> about 2007 or 50,000 miles ago. I carry spare GPSs, but in the back of my 
> mind always is the possibility that the whole system may go down and then 
> what do I do? Well, I'm pretty confident of my ability to keep a good DR and 
> EP, and in my ability to stay out of trouble when approaching a shoreline if 
> I'm not confident of my position (which is pretty much always).
> 
> The bottom line is, I think that learning piloting--coastal navigation, 
> etc--is a higher priority than learning to use a sextant. 
> 
> One little trick when approaching a shoreline without a position fix for some 
> time is to steer to one side of where you want to go. That way when you see 
> land, you know which way to turn to make your port. So if I want to get to 
> Charleston, I may aim for Hilton Head and when I see land, or it starts 
> getting shallow, I know to turn north in order to get to Charleston. If I aim 
> straight for where I want to go, and miss, I'm not sure which direction to 
> turn, the land being pretty featureless from offshore. This tip is courtesy 
> of Chichester from when he was flying his Gypsy Moth biplane.
> 
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Marek Dziedzic  
>> wrote:
>> I would say Speed first. It gives you enough that you can navigate (assuming 
>> that you have a compass (and a watch)).
>>  
>> I would drop Stereo from this list (we never have it on; I like the sound of 
>> sailing – I hope this does not open a can of worms)
>>  
>> I would put a GPS ahead of the autopilot, probably, mainly, because of the 
>> costs associated.
>>  
>> Marek
>>  
>> > In order?
>> > 1 Depth
>> > 2 VHF
>> > 3 Stereo
>> >4 Autopilot
>> > 4 GPS
>> > 5 Plotter
>> > 6 Speed
>> > 7 wind
>> > 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
>> > isn't the more valuable tool
>> > 9 SSB
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett Ave
> Newport, RI
> USA 02840
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> phone  +401 965 5260
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Setting GPS Waypoints -> Seatalk

[Russ & Melody]

Hi Michael,

Please post the Seatalk talk info.

I don't need it right now but I save these kinds of posts for when I 
do need it.


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 04:55 PM 16/01/2014, you wrote:

Short answer is yes.
.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1

PS: I can post more information about the installation and getting the
Seatalk NG working with ST50 instruments on Seatalk 1 if anyone is
interested.

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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Prime Interest]

I've used my iPad for navigation on the Great Lakes using iNavx on an iPad 
without a SIM card and thus no cell service. Not sure whether Navionics 
requires a cell/internet connection to update chart information but iNax loads 
the regional maps so can operate in a unconnected manner.

Although I have location, AIS and boat instruments feeding the navigation 
application via a ShipModul Wifi multiplexer the iPads GPS works well enough by 
itself.



ed
Prime Interest
1982 C&C Landfall 38
Toronto, Canada


> On Jan 16, 2014, at 8:40 PM, Brad Crawford  wrote:
> 
> Andrew,
> I have used my iPad most of the time as a chartplotter also, using Navionics, 
> we also carry back up paper charts.  So far our long distance trips have been 
> to the San Juan islands and Gulf Islands of British Columbia.  Just out of 
> curiosity, how far off shore have you used your iPad as a navigational tool, 
> and have you always had cell coverage.
> 
> Brad
> C&C 36
> Dora Pearl 
> Seattle
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jan 16, 2014, at 6:19 AM, Andrew Burton  wrote:
>> 
>> Since getting my iPad a couple of years ago, I haven't pulled out a paper 
>> chart once. As you say, It's a great tool.
>> I have to admit that my sextant hasn't accompanied me on a passage since 
>> about 2007 or 50,000 miles ago. I carry spare GPSs, but in the back of my 
>> mind always is the possibility that the whole system may go down and then 
>> what do I do? Well, I'm pretty confident of my ability to keep a good DR and 
>> EP, and in my ability to stay out of trouble when approaching a shoreline if 
>> I'm not confident of my position (which is pretty much always).
>> 
>> The bottom line is, I think that learning piloting--coastal navigation, 
>> etc--is a higher priority than learning to use a sextant. 
>> 
>> One little trick when approaching a shoreline without a position fix for 
>> some time is to steer to one side of where you want to go. That way when you 
>> see land, you know which way to turn to make your port. So if I want to get 
>> to Charleston, I may aim for Hilton Head and when I see  land, or it starts 
>> getting shallow, I know to turn north in order to get to Charleston. If I 
>> aim straight for where I want to go, and miss, I'm not sure which direction 
>> to turn, the land being pretty featureless from offshore. This tip is 
>> courtesy of Chichester from when he was flying his Gypsy Moth biplane.
>> 
>> Andy
>> C&C 40
>> Peregrine
>> -- 
>> Andrew Burton
>> 61 W Narragansett Ave
>> Newport, RI
>> USA 02840
>> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>> phone  +401 965 5260
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Martin DeYoung]

>… how far off shore have you used your iPad as a navigational tool, and have 
>you always had cell coverage.<

A few years back I experienced occasional coverage 5 to 10 miles offshore from 
Tofino BC (West Coast, Vancouver Island) to San Diego.  There is little to no 
Vancouver Island coverage north of Port Hardy around the top back south to 
Tofino.  On the inside of Vancouver Island, north of Campbell River the 
coverage can be spotty.  Your mileage will vary on the height of the cell tower 
and your carrier’s equipment.

A personal best for cell phone coverage was back in 1993 using a Motorola 
“brick” phone.  I was 200 miles west of Cape Flattery and needed to contact the 
boat’s owner to discuss delivery of engine parts (+ coffee, bread, and a French 
brand of cigarettes) to Neah Bay.  I was firing up the SSB when one of the crew 
stated he had the owner on the cell phone.  My guess is the higher wattage of 
that era of cell phones allowed the signal to bounce off the atmosphere and hit 
an antenna on Vancouver Island.

For the US west coast, some cell coverage can be found when close to shore 
mostly near towns but I strongly recommend having a VHF.

As to the iPad or other non-marine nav aids offshore, carry backup nav aids 
(paper charts, separate GPS etc.) as the salt water never rests in its 
relentless attack on electronics and your power will always quit at the worst 
possible time (i.e. not on bright sunny days with the coast in sight).

Martin
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Brad Crawford
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 5:40 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

Andrew,
I have used my iPad most of the time as a chartplotter also, using Navionics, 
we also carry back up paper charts.  So far our long distance trips have been 
to the San Juan islands and Gulf Islands of British Columbia.  Just out of 
curiosity, how far off shore have you used your iPad as a navigational tool, 
and have you always had cell coverage.

Brad
C&C 36
Dora Pearl
Seattle

Sent from my iPad

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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Joel Aronson]

If your IPad has cell capability it will work as a GPS without cell service.

Joel

On Thursday, January 16, 2014, Martin DeYoung 
wrote:

>  >… how far off shore have you used your iPad as a navigational tool, and
> have you always had cell coverage.<
>
>
>
> A few years back I experienced occasional coverage 5 to 10 miles offshore
> from Tofino BC (West Coast, Vancouver Island) to San Diego.  There is
> little to no Vancouver Island coverage north of Port Hardy around the top
> back south to Tofino.  On the inside of Vancouver Island, north of Campbell
> River the coverage can be spotty.  Your mileage will vary on the height of
> the cell tower and your carrier’s equipment.
>
>
>
> A personal best for cell phone coverage was back in 1993 using a Motorola
> “brick” phone.  I was 200 miles west of Cape Flattery and needed to contact
> the boat’s owner to discuss delivery of engine parts (+ coffee, bread, and
> a French brand of cigarettes) to Neah Bay.  I was firing up the SSB when
> one of the crew stated he had the owner on the cell phone.  My guess is the
> higher wattage of that era of cell phones allowed the signal to bounce off
> the atmosphere and hit an antenna on Vancouver Island.
>
>
>
> For the US west coast, some cell coverage can be found when close to shore
> mostly near towns but I strongly recommend having a VHF.
>
>
>
> As to the iPad or other non-marine nav aids offshore, carry backup nav
> aids (paper charts, separate GPS etc.) as the salt water never rests in its
> relentless attack on electronics and your power will always quit at the
> worst possible time (i.e. not on bright sunny days with the coast in sight).
>
>
>
> Martin
>
> Calypso
>
> 1971 C&C 43
>
> Seattle
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com  'cvml', 'cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com');>] *On Behalf Of *Brad Crawford
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2014 5:40 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com  'cnc-list@cnc-list.com');>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints
>
>
>
> Andrew,
>
> I have used my iPad most of the time as a chartplotter also, using
> Navionics, we also carry back up paper charts.  So far our long distance
> trips have been to the San Juan islands and Gulf Islands of British
> Columbia.  Just out of curiosity, how far off shore have you used your iPad
> as a navigational tool, and have you always had cell coverage.
>
>
>
> Brad
>
> C&C 36
>
> Dora Pearl
>
> Seattle
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[sam . c . salter]

I've used the iPad with iNavX in the Caribbean, Mexico, on the west coast, Catalina (off LA), Chesapeake all with no sim card. But you do need the more expensive one with GPS in - they are not all the same.  I've not used it "deep sea " as I have no intention of going off shore. Did it once - boring! But it would work fine. sam :-) From: Prime InterestSent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 7:17 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS WaypointsI've used my iPad for navigation on the Great Lakes using iNavx on an iPad without a SIM card and thus no cell service. Not sure whether Navionics requires a cell/internet connection to update chart information but iNax loads the regional maps so can operate in a unconnected manner.Although I have location, AIS and boat instruments feeding the navigation application via a ShipModul Wifi multiplexer the iPads GPS works well enough by itself.edPrime Interest1982 C&C Landfall 38Toronto, CanadaOn Jan 16, 2014, at 8:40 PM, Brad Crawford  wrote:Andrew,I have used my iPad most of the time as a chartplotter also, using Navionics, we also carry back up paper charts.  So far our long distance trips have been to the San Juan islands and Gulf Islands of British Columbia.  Just out of curiosity, how far off shore have you used your iPad as a navigational tool, and have you always had cell coverage.BradC&C 36Dora Pearl SeattleSent from my iPadOn Jan 16, 2014, at 6:19 AM, Andrew Burton  wrote:Since getting my iPad a couple of years ago, I haven't pulled out a paper chart once. As you say, It's a great tool.I
 have to admit that my sextant hasn't accompanied me on a passage since 
about 2007 or 50,000 miles ago. I carry spare GPSs, but in the back of 
my mind always is the possibility that the whole system may go down and 
then what do I do? Well, I'm pretty confident of my ability to keep a 
good DR and EP, and in my ability to stay out of trouble when 
approaching a shoreline if I'm not confident of my position (which is 
pretty much always).
The bottom line is, I think that learning piloting--coastal 
navigation, etc--is a higher priority than learning to use a sextant. One
 little trick when approaching a shoreline without a position fix for 
some time is to steer to one side of where you want to go. That way when
 you see land, you know which way to turn to make your port. So if I 
want to get to Charleston, I may aim for Hilton Head and when I see 
land, or it starts getting shallow, I know to turn north in order to get
 to Charleston. If I aim straight for where I want to go, and miss, I'm 
not sure which direction to turn, the land being pretty featureless from
 offshore. This tip is courtesy of Chichester from when he was flying 
his Gypsy Moth biplane.
AndyC&C 40Peregrine-- Andrew Burton61 W Narragansett AveNewport, RIUSA 02840http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/


phone  +401 965 5260

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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Andrew Burton]

You don't
 Need cell coverage for the iPad to work as a plotter as long as you've got 3 
or 4G cell capability. I guess the farthest offshore was just between Bermuda 
and the Virgins. 

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Jan 16, 2014, at 20:40, Brad Crawford  wrote:

> Andrew,
> I have used my iPad most of the time as a chartplotter also, using Navionics, 
> we also carry back up paper charts.  So far our long distance trips have been 
> to the San Juan islands and Gulf Islands of British Columbia.  Just out of 
> curiosity, how far off shore have you used your iPad as a navigational tool, 
> and have you always had cell coverage.
> 
> Brad
> C&C 36
> Dora Pearl 
> Seattle
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jan 16, 2014, at 6:19 AM, Andrew Burton  wrote:
> 
>> Since getting my iPad a couple of years ago, I haven't pulled out a paper 
>> chart once. As you say, It's a great tool.
>> I have to admit that my sextant hasn't accompanied me on a passage since 
>> about 2007 or 50,000 miles ago. I carry spare GPSs, but in the back of my 
>> mind always is the possibility that the whole system may go down and then 
>> what do I do? Well, I'm pretty confident of my ability to keep a good DR and 
>> EP, and in my ability to stay out of trouble when approaching a shoreline if 
>> I'm not confident of my position (which is pretty much always).
>> 
>> The bottom line is, I think that learning piloting--coastal navigation, 
>> etc--is a higher priority than learning to use a sextant. 
>> 
>> One little trick when approaching a shoreline without a position fix for 
>> some time is to steer to one side of where you want to go. That way when you 
>> see land, you know which way to turn to make your port. So if I want to get 
>> to Charleston, I may aim for Hilton Head and when I see land, or it starts 
>> getting shallow, I know to turn north in order to get to Charleston. If I 
>> aim straight for where I want to go, and miss, I'm not sure which direction 
>> to turn, the land being pretty featureless from offshore. This tip is 
>> courtesy of Chichester from when he was flying his Gypsy Moth biplane.
>> 
>> Andy
>> C&C 40
>> Peregrine
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Marek Dziedzic  
>> wrote:
>>> I would say Speed first. It gives you enough that you can navigate 
>>> (assuming that you have a compass (and a watch)).
>>>  
>>> I would drop Stereo from this list (we never have it on; I like the sound 
>>> of sailing – I hope this does not open a can of worms)
>>>  
>>> I would put a GPS ahead of the autopilot, probably, mainly, because of the 
>>> costs associated.
>>>  
>>> Marek
>>>  
>>> > In order?
>>> > 1 Depth
>>> > 2 VHF
>>> > 3 Stereo
>>> >4 Autopilot
>>> > 4 GPS
>>> > 5 Plotter
>>> > 6 Speed
>>> > 7 wind
>>> > 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
>>> > isn't the more valuable tool
>>> > 9 SSB
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Andrew Burton
>> 61 W Narragansett Ave
>> Newport, RI
>> USA 02840
>> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>> phone  +401 965 5260
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Rich Knowles]

I don't understand. 3 or 4 4G cell capability Is cell coverage.

Rich







On Jan 16, 2014, at 10:56 PM, Andrew Burton  wrote:

You don't
 Need cell coverage for the iPad to work as a plotter as long as you've got 3 
or 4G cell capability. I guess the farthest offshore was just between Bermuda 
and the Virgins. 

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Jan 16, 2014, at 20:40, Brad Crawford  wrote:

> Andrew,
> I have used my iPad most of the time as a chartplotter also, using Navionics, 
> we also carry back up paper charts.  So far our long distance trips have been 
> to the San Juan islands and Gulf Islands of British Columbia.  Just out of 
> curiosity, how far off shore have you used your iPad as a navigational tool, 
> and have you always had cell coverage.
> 
> Brad
> C&C 36
> Dora Pearl 
> Seattle
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jan 16, 2014, at 6:19 AM, Andrew Burton  wrote:
> 
>> Since getting my iPad a couple of years ago, I haven't pulled out a paper 
>> chart once. As you say, It's a great tool.
>> I have to admit that my sextant hasn't accompanied me on a passage since 
>> about 2007 or 50,000 miles ago. I carry spare GPSs, but in the back of my 
>> mind always is the possibility that the whole system may go down and then 
>> what do I do? Well, I'm pretty confident of my ability to keep a good DR and 
>> EP, and in my ability to stay out of trouble when approaching a shoreline if 
>> I'm not confident of my position (which is pretty much always).
>> 
>> The bottom line is, I think that learning piloting--coastal navigation, 
>> etc--is a higher priority than learning to use a sextant. 
>> 
>> One little trick when approaching a shoreline without a position fix for 
>> some time is to steer to one side of where you want to go. That way when you 
>> see land, you know which way to turn to make your port. So if I want to get 
>> to Charleston, I may aim for Hilton Head and when I see land, or it starts 
>> getting shallow, I know to turn north in order to get to Charleston. If I 
>> aim straight for where I want to go, and miss, I'm not sure which direction 
>> to turn, the land being pretty featureless from offshore. This tip is 
>> courtesy of Chichester from when he was flying his Gypsy Moth biplane.
>> 
>> Andy
>> C&C 40
>> Peregrine
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Marek Dziedzic  
>> wrote:
>> I would say Speed first. It gives you enough that you can navigate (assuming 
>> that you have a compass (and a watch)).
>>  
>> I would drop Stereo from this list (we never have it on; I like the sound of 
>> sailing – I hope this does not open a can of worms)
>>  
>> I would put a GPS ahead of the autopilot, probably, mainly, because of the 
>> costs associated.
>>  
>> Marek
>>  
>> > In order?
>> > 1 Depth
>> > 2 VHF
>> > 3 Stereo
>> >4 Autopilot
>> > 4 GPS
>> > 5 Plotter
>> > 6 Speed
>> > 7 wind
>> > 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
>> > isn't the more valuable tool
>> > 9 SSB
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Andrew Burton
>> 61 W Narragansett Ave
>> Newport, RI
>> USA 02840
>> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>> phone  +401 965 5260
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Jim Reinardy]

Rich,

 

It's an Apple thing.  WiFi only models don't have a true GPS.  The only GPS
chip that you can get built into an iPad is contained in the cellular
connectivity module. You don't have to activate any cellular data plan to
get it to work, just buy the capability with the device.  It doesn't make
much sense, but that is how they did it.  It's true of every model up to and
including the Air.  Hope that helps.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Reinardy

C&C 30-2 "Firewater"

Milwaukee, WI

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Knowles
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:24 PM
To: cnc-list Cnc-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

 

I don't understand. 3 or 4 4G cell capability Is cell coverage.

 

Rich







 

On Jan 16, 2014, at 10:56 PM, Andrew Burton mailto:a.burton.sai...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

You don't

 Need cell coverage for the iPad to work as a plotter as long as you've got
3 or 4G cell capability. I guess the farthest offshore was just between
Bermuda and the Virgins. 

 

Andy

C&C 40

Peregrine

Andrew Burton

61 W Narragansett

Newport, RI 

USA02840

 

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/

+401 965-5260


On Jan 16, 2014, at 20:40, Brad Crawford mailto:bcrawf7...@comcast.net> > wrote:

Andrew,

I have used my iPad most of the time as a chartplotter also, using
Navionics, we also carry back up paper charts.  So far our long distance
trips have been to the San Juan islands and Gulf Islands of British
Columbia.  Just out of curiosity, how far off shore have you used your iPad
as a navigational tool, and have you always had cell coverage.

 

Brad

C&C 36

Dora Pearl 

Seattle

Sent from my iPad


On Jan 16, 2014, at 6:19 AM, Andrew Burton mailto:a.burton.sai...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Since getting my iPad a couple of years ago, I haven't pulled out a paper
chart once. As you say, It's a great tool.

I have to admit that my sextant hasn't accompanied me on a passage since
about 2007 or 50,000 miles ago. I carry spare GPSs, but in the back of my
mind always is the possibility that the whole system may go down and then
what do I do? Well, I'm pretty confident of my ability to keep a good DR and
EP, and in my ability to stay out of trouble when approaching a shoreline if
I'm not confident of my position (which is pretty much always).

The bottom line is, I think that learning piloting--coastal navigation,
etc--is a higher priority than learning to use a sextant. 

One little trick when approaching a shoreline without a position fix for
some time is to steer to one side of where you want to go. That way when you
see land, you know which way to turn to make your port. So if I want to get
to Charleston, I may aim for Hilton Head and when I see land, or it starts
getting shallow, I know to turn north in order to get to Charleston. If I
aim straight for where I want to go, and miss, I'm not sure which direction
to turn, the land being pretty featureless from offshore. This tip is
courtesy of Chichester from when he was flying his Gypsy Moth biplane.

Andy

C&C 40

Peregrine

 

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Marek Dziedzic mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com> > wrote:

I would say Speed first. It gives you enough that you can navigate (assuming
that you have a compass (and a watch)).

 

I would drop Stereo from this list (we never have it on; I like the sound of
sailing - I hope this does not open a can of worms)

 

I would put a GPS ahead of the autopilot, probably, mainly, because of the
costs associated.

 

Marek

 

> In order?
> 1 Depth
> 2 VHF
> 3 Stereo

>4 Autopilot
> 4 GPS
> 5 Plotter
> 6 Speed
> 7 wind
> 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
> isn't the more valuable tool
> 9 SSB


___
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-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone  +401 965 5260 

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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Rich Knowles]

OK. Thanks! I knew that. I just under/mis-read the email:) Sorry.

Rich







On Jan 16, 2014, at 11:29 PM, Jim Reinardy  wrote:

Rich,
 
It’s an Apple thing.  WiFi only models don’t have a true GPS.  The only GPS 
chip that you can get built into an iPad is contained in the cellular 
connectivity module. You don’t have to activate any cellular data plan to get 
it to work, just buy the capability with the device.  It doesn’t make much 
sense, but that is how they did it.  It’s true of every model up to and 
including the Air.  Hope that helps.
 
Regards,
 
Jim Reinardy
C&C 30-2 “Firewater”
Milwaukee, WI
 
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:24 PM
To: cnc-list Cnc-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints
 
I don't understand. 3 or 4 4G cell capability Is cell coverage.
 
Rich






 
On Jan 16, 2014, at 10:56 PM, Andrew Burton  wrote:
 
You don't
 Need cell coverage for the iPad to work as a plotter as long as you've got 3 
or 4G cell capability. I guess the farthest offshore was just between Bermuda 
and the Virgins. 
 
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840
 
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Jan 16, 2014, at 20:40, Brad Crawford  wrote:

Andrew,
I have used my iPad most of the time as a chartplotter also, using Navionics, 
we also carry back up paper charts.  So far our long distance trips have been 
to the San Juan islands and Gulf Islands of British Columbia.  Just out of 
curiosity, how far off shore have you used your iPad as a navigational tool, 
and have you always had cell coverage.
 
Brad
C&C 36
Dora Pearl 
Seattle

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 16, 2014, at 6:19 AM, Andrew Burton  wrote:

Since getting my iPad a couple of years ago, I haven't pulled out a paper chart 
once. As you say, It's a great tool.
I have to admit that my sextant hasn't accompanied me on a passage since about 
2007 or 50,000 miles ago. I carry spare GPSs, but in the back of my mind always 
is the possibility that the whole system may go down and then what do I do? 
Well, I'm pretty confident of my ability to keep a good DR and EP, and in my 
ability to stay out of trouble when approaching a shoreline if I'm not 
confident of my position (which is pretty much always).

The bottom line is, I think that learning piloting--coastal navigation, etc--is 
a higher priority than learning to use a sextant. 

One little trick when approaching a shoreline without a position fix for some 
time is to steer to one side of where you want to go. That way when you see 
land, you know which way to turn to make your port. So if I want to get to 
Charleston, I may aim for Hilton Head and when I see land, or it starts getting 
shallow, I know to turn north in order to get to Charleston. If I aim straight 
for where I want to go, and miss, I'm not sure which direction to turn, the 
land being pretty featureless from offshore. This tip is courtesy of Chichester 
from when he was flying his Gypsy Moth biplane.

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine
 

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
I would say Speed first. It gives you enough that you can navigate (assuming 
that you have a compass (and a watch)).
 
I would drop Stereo from this list (we never have it on; I like the sound of 
sailing – I hope this does not open a can of worms)
 
I would put a GPS ahead of the autopilot, probably, mainly, because of the 
costs associated.
 
Marek
 
> In order?
> 1 Depth
> 2 VHF
> 3 Stereo
>4 Autopilot
> 4 GPS
> 5 Plotter
> 6 Speed
> 7 wind
> 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
> isn't the more valuable tool
> 9 SSB

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-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone  +401 965 5260
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Re: Stus-List Electronics - was Re: Setting GPS Waypoints

[Andrew Burton]

That's what I was trying to say, Rich. I think when you get the iPad that has 
cell service it also has a dedicated GPS installed as well. That makes it work 
well offshore, out of cell range.

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Jan 16, 2014, at 22:23, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> I don't understand. 3 or 4 4G cell capability Is cell coverage.
> 
> Rich
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 16, 2014, at 10:56 PM, Andrew Burton  wrote:
> 
> You don't
>  Need cell coverage for the iPad to work as a plotter as long as you've got 3 
> or 4G cell capability. I guess the farthest offshore was just between Bermuda 
> and the Virgins. 
> 
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
> 
> On Jan 16, 2014, at 20:40, Brad Crawford  wrote:
> 
>> Andrew,
>> I have used my iPad most of the time as a chartplotter also, using 
>> Navionics, we also carry back up paper charts.  So far our long distance 
>> trips have been to the San Juan islands and Gulf Islands of British 
>> Columbia.  Just out of curiosity, how far off shore have you used your iPad 
>> as a navigational tool, and have you always had cell coverage.
>> 
>> Brad
>> C&C 36
>> Dora Pearl 
>> Seattle
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Jan 16, 2014, at 6:19 AM, Andrew Burton  wrote:
>> 
>>> Since getting my iPad a couple of years ago, I haven't pulled out a paper 
>>> chart once. As you say, It's a great tool.
>>> I have to admit that my sextant hasn't accompanied me on a passage since 
>>> about 2007 or 50,000 miles ago. I carry spare GPSs, but in the back of my 
>>> mind always is the possibility that the whole system may go down and then 
>>> what do I do? Well, I'm pretty confident of my ability to keep a good DR 
>>> and EP, and in my ability to stay out of trouble when approaching a 
>>> shoreline if I'm not confident of my position (which is pretty much always).
>>> 
>>> The bottom line is, I think that learning piloting--coastal navigation, 
>>> etc--is a higher priority than learning to use a sextant. 
>>> 
>>> One little trick when approaching a shoreline without a position fix for 
>>> some time is to steer to one side of where you want to go. That way when 
>>> you see land, you know which way to turn to make your port. So if I want to 
>>> get to Charleston, I may aim for Hilton Head and when I see  land, or it 
>>> starts getting shallow, I know to turn north in order to get to Charleston. 
>>> If I aim straight for where I want to go, and miss, I'm not sure which 
>>> direction to turn, the land being pretty featureless from offshore. This 
>>> tip is courtesy of Chichester from when he was flying his Gypsy Moth 
>>> biplane.
>>> 
>>> Andy
>>> C&C 40
>>> Peregrine
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Marek Dziedzic  
>>> wrote:
 I would say Speed first. It gives you enough that you can navigate 
 (assuming that you have a compass (and a watch)).
  
 I would drop Stereo from this list (we never have it on; I like the sound 
 of sailing – I hope this does not open a can of worms)
  
 I would put a GPS ahead of the autopilot, probably, mainly, because of the 
 costs associated.
  
 Marek
  
 > In order?
 > 1 Depth
 > 2 VHF
 > 3 Stereo
 >4 Autopilot
 > 4 GPS
 > 5 Plotter
 > 6 Speed
 > 7 wind
 > 8 radar or AIS, depending on area of use; offshore, I'm not sure that AIS
 > isn't the more valuable tool
 > 9 SSB
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Andrew Burton
>>> 61 W Narragansett Ave
>>> Newport, RI
>>> USA 02840
>>> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>>> phone  +401 965 5260
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