Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini

[Andrew Burton]

Thanks, I gave Neil a call and he's working up a quote for me.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine 

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:31 PM, "Harry"  wrote:

> Andy,
> Ditto Thurston.  Steve Thurston just made a new Quantum jib for me…excellent 
> service and pricing.
>  
> Harry
>  
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
> djhaug...@juno.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:18 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
>  
> I would try Thurston Canvass in Bristol, RI and Harding sails over in Marion. 
>  
>  
> Danny
> Lolita
> 1973 Viking 33
> Westport Point, MA
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: Andrew Burton 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:27:19 -0500
> 
> I need to put a bimini top on my boat for this summer. Has anyone info on 
> where to go for a canvas company in New England that's made one for a C&C 40? 
> 
> Andy
> 
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> -- 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett Ave
> Newport, RI
> USA 02840
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> phone� +401 965 5260
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini

[Danny Haughey]

Andy,

You should wait a couple weeks and go to the Boston boat show.  You get a few 
canvas Venders there and get boat show discount.  Thurston canvas was not there 
last year but Thurston sails were.  Thurston sails gave me a 15% discount but 
Thurston canvas would not because he said they are different companies and he 
did not attend the show.  I think Thurston sails give more competitive pricing 
than Thurston canvas.  I asked for a winter cover quote from Thurston and they 
were 4200.  I got a cover from fairclough for 2600.  It seemed Apple's to 
Apple's...

I would really call every one.  I have to go back into the archives and get you 
another reputable shop over in Bristol


From my Android phone

 Original message 
From: Andrew Burton  
Date:  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini 
 
Thanks, I gave Neil a call and he's working up a quote for me.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine 

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA    02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:31 PM, "Harry"  wrote:

Andy,
Ditto Thurston.  Steve Thurston just made a new Quantum jib for me…excellent 
service and pricing.
 
Harry
 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
djhaug...@juno.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:18 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
 
I would try Thurston Canvass in Bristol, RI and Harding sails over in Marion. 
 
Danny
Lolita
1973 Viking 33
Westport Point, MA


-- Original Message --
From: Andrew Burton 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:27:19 -0500

I need to put a bimini top on my boat for this summer. Has anyone info on where 
to go for a canvas company in New England that's made one for a C&C 40? 

Andy

C&C 40
Peregrine

-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone� +401 965 5260
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Re: Stus-List Poly Navicular Morbus - too many boats disease - group confessional session; Keep Turning Left

[Ronald B. Frerker]

Do we have to count a model boat?RonWild Cheri

--- On Fri, 2/1/13, Curtis  wrote:

From: Curtis 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Poly Navicular Morbus - too many boats disease - group 
confessional session; Keep Turning Left
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Friday, February 1, 2013, 12:02 PM

62 feet here  one 16' mckee cc  One Kayak 16' and then my CYC 30 MK1

On 2/1/13, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
> I hate to admit, but I am at 115 ft (6 boats). But I hope to go down one
> (actually, in negotiations as we speak). This would get me down to only 91
> ft.
>
> Btw. this calculations give an unfair advantage to kayak owners (they are
> long (17-22 ft?)).
>
> Marek in Ottawa
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[Dave Godwin]

Dave,

I redid all my original floorboards on my boat about 13 years ago. I did it 
exactly the way that Graham describes. Hopefully to add a bit more, I used the 
better part of two full sheets of teak/holly plywood. I put two coats of West 
epoxy on first to seal everything (it didn't…) and then started applying coat 
after coat of varnish (gloss, will probably go with satin next time) until I 
had about 10-12 coats total. I did all of this before the cuts.

After making the cutouts for access to the bilge I routed out both sides back 
and used lengths of solid teak, ripped to 1/4 width, 3/4 height to face each 
side of raw plywood. Glue and tacked. Makes a nice finishing touch.

I can provide pictures if you'd like

Unfortunately, because of flooding and general humidity/wet bilge I have to 
redo this project…

Cheers,
Dave
1982 C&C 37 - "Ronin"

On Feb 1, 2013, at 6:24 PM, Joel Aronson wrote:

> Great idea!
> 
> Joel
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Feb 1, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Graham Collins  wrote:
> 
>> I pulled mine, used them as templates.  Where the underside has an angled 
>> cut I used a 45 degree angled bit in the router.  2 full sheets.
>> 
>> On mine the sole doesn't run under the settee, the only piece that may be 
>> pinned in place was a small piece that is around the mast   step base.
>> 
>> Tip - rough cut the new pieces to size, screw the old pieces onto the new 
>> using the original screw holes (which establishes where the screw holes need 
>> to be) and trim to size using a trimming bit with bearing in the router.
>> Graham Collins
>> Secret Plans
>> C&C 35-III #11
>> On 2013-02-01 9:28 AM, chef2s...@aol.com wrote:
>>> I am thinking of pulling up the sole and redoing.  I have already searched 
>>> out the flooring and want to begin the process of removing the present sole 
>>> in its pieces so they can be used to "template" the cuts for the new sole. 
>>> On Haleakula they are screwed down in most spots by casual observation.
>>>  
>>> Has anyone done this project? How far under the port settee does the sole 
>>> run? What tricks/ tips could you give me before I start this?
>>>  
>>> Dave
>>>  
>>> S/V Haleakula
>>> C&C MKIII # 76
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Stus-List Cabin sole refinish

[Chuck S]

Ultimate Sole was a great product. I used it and would buy more. Great shiny 
finish and almost non-slip. Made to be applied by DIY with foam brushes. Shame 
someone didn't grab the business. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Abbott"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 2:39:05 PM 
Subject: Stus-List Cabin sole refinish 


Andy 
There was a product called 'Ultimate Sole' that did a great job it is/was 
shiny but not slippery, even when wet. I have heard that it has been 
discontinued but I bet there a few quarts in someone's inventory 
somewhere..worth a try to try and find a quart. 

I put 5 coats of it on the cabin sole 6 years ago and it still looks good. 

Bob Abbott 
AZURA 
C&C 32 - 84 
Halifax, N.S. 



On 2013/02/01 3:15 PM, Andrew Burton wrote: 


Weren't there some here who really liked polyurethane for floorboards? I'd love 
to see some pics and get some input. I have mine sealed and am trying to decide 
whether to go that route or stick with varnish, which is what I know, but will 
take many coats to fill the grain and get the finish I want. 
By the way, I am a big fan of gloss finish on the floorboards. Yes they are 
more slippery than non-skid or unfinished boards, but I'm not considering those 
options... and it's not like our boats have acres of cabin sole on which to 
achieve a decent velocity. And gloss sure is pretty! 
cheers 
Andy 
C&C 40 
Peregrine 


On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Bill Connon < billcon...@navigue.com > wrote: 




Joel Aronson wrote: 


I'm applying epoxy to the topside of the sole using West 105 and 207. 
I added a couple before/after pictures to facebook.com/theoffice35 
under the photo timeline. Next week I'll start applying Cetol to as 
many board as I can fit into my breakfast rom at one time. 

Joel 
Sent from my iPad 

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Joel, 

I bought my 36 in 1995. The first year at layup, I removed the boards and made 
temporary ones out of 1/2"presswood. I store the teak and holly in the basement 
until after the new year. The undersides get a good check up for damage from 
water/humidity from the bilge. Bottom and edges are kept well sealed. On the 
topside I give a light sanding and then a thin coat of Minwax - Helmsman - Spar 
Urethane - Clear Gloss. The result is a hard, shiny finish which is not 
slippery when wet. Floor finish is a matter of taste but I get a lot of 
compliments over the appearance of my floorboards. 

Bill 
Caprice 1 
C&C 36 - 1978 



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-- 
Andrew Burton 
61 W Narragansett Ave 
Newport, RI 
USA 02840 
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
phone +401 965 5260 

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Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes

[Dennis C.]

Rich,

Due to the small space, I'd suggest 4 inch tiles with 1/4 inch spacing.  Maybe 
a rectangle in the center of the salon framed with dark emperador marble and 
filled with tiles on a diagonal.  Nice way to get more ballast.  :)

Or maybe some nice Mexican tile.  You could build in a nice gas grill against 
the forward bulkhead.  Don't forget the tiki torches and granite countertops.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83 (love my fiberglass sole covered with olefin carpet!)
Mandeville, LA





>
> From: Rich Knowles 
>To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
>Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 11:20 PM
>Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes
> 
>
>I guess this proves once more that there are as many ways to finish cabin 
>soles as there are boat owners. Maybe I'll try ceramic tile next time around. 
>Cool on the feet and I can work in some nice patterns. Good ballast too. 
>
>
>Rich Knowles
>Indigo. LF38
>Halifax
>
>On 2013-02-02, at 1:02, Bill McNamara  wrote:
>
>
> 
>Last season we heat stripped the cabin sole of our 
'78 34' and re-did it with Epifanes.
>7 coats of clear gloss, thinned 25%, then 3 coats 
Satin Epifanes, also thinned, to kill the gloss and slip hazards.
>Once the prep work is done, the multiple coats 
EASILY build protection and fill grain nicely.
> Light hand sanding and tack rag between 
coats, Scotch-Bright and tack between Satin coats.
> VERY happy with the performance and 
appearance.
> 
>Bill McNamara
>Miss Conduct
>Picton On.
> 
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>
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes

[Brent Driedger]

Be sure to run the cooling system from the engine under the tile for comfy 
in-floor heating on those cool nights too. 
:)
Brent
C&C 27-5 
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone on the MTS High Speed Mobility Network

-Original Message-
From: "Dennis C." 
Sender: "CnC-List" 
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 09:55:38 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Reply-To: "Dennis C." , cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes

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Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini

[djhaug...@juno.com]

Andy, Here is the other canvas shop I found during my search for a winter 
cover.  they came in a little higher than fairclough by a few hundred.  However 
I found a few posts that were happy with their winter covers from them. Kinder 
Industries
26 Burnside Street
Bristol RI 02809
401-253-7076 You may want to try fairclough.  I'm not 100% sure they do 
bimini's but they offered me a 10% winter discount for the winter cover and 
their service was fast and the cover looks great.  I really found no negative 
comments about them. The disclaimer, I have no affiliation with any sail or 
canvas shops except as a customer. Good luck on your search and purchase. 
DannyLolita1973 Viking 33Westport Point, MA

-- Original Message --
From: Danny Haughey 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 09:17:37 -0500


Andy, You should wait a couple weeks and go to the Boston boat show.  You get a 
few canvas Venders there and get boat show discount.  Thurston canvas was not 
there last year but Thurston sails were.  Thurston sails gave me a 15% discount 
but Thurston canvas would not because he said they are different companies and 
he did not attend the show.  I think Thurston sails give more competitive 
pricing than Thurston canvas.  I asked for a winter cover quote from Thurston 
and they were 4200.  I got a cover from fairclough for 2600.  It seemed Apple's 
to Apple's... I would really call every one.  I have to go back into the 
archives and get you another reputable shop over in Bristol  From my Android 
phone 


 Original message 
From: Andrew Burton  
Date: 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini 
 


Thanks, I gave Neil a call and he's working up a quote for me.AndyC&C 
40Peregrine 

Andrew Burton61 W NarragansettNewport, RI USA02840 
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/+401 965-5260
On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:31 PM, "Harry"  wrote:

Andy,
Ditto Thurston.  Steve Thurston just made a new Quantum jib for 
me…excellent service and pricing.
 
Harry
 
 
 
-Original Message-
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
djhaug...@juno.com
 Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 20134:18 PM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
 
I would try Thurston Canvass in Bristol, RI and Harding sails over in Marion.  
 
Danny
Lolita
1973 Viking 33
Westport Point, MA

 
 -- Original Message --
 From: Andrew Burton 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
 Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:27:19 -0500
 
 I need to put a bimini top on my boat for this summer. Has anyone info on 
where to go for a canvas company in New England that's made one for a C&C 40? 
 
 Andy
 
 C&C 40
 Peregrine 
 -- 
 Andrew Burton
 61 W Narragansett Ave
 Newport, RI
 USA 02840
 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
 phone� +401 965 5260
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Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes

[Rich Knowles]

Great ideas! Thank you. And it will go very well with the AstroTurf in the 
cockpit. It's all party-proof. A good thing!

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-02-02, at 12:55, "Dennis C."  wrote:

Rich,

Due to the small space, I'd suggest 4 inch tiles with 1/4 inch spacing.  Maybe 
a rectangle in the center of the salon framed with dark emperador marble and 
filled with tiles on a diagonal.  Nice way to get more ballast.  :)

Or maybe some nice Mexican tile.  You could build in a nice gas grill against 
the forward bulkhead.  Don't forget the tiki torches and granite countertops.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83 (love my fiberglass sole covered with olefin carpet!)
Mandeville, LA


From: Rich Knowles 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes

I guess this proves once more that there are as many ways to finish cabin soles 
as there are boat owners. Maybe I'll try ceramic tile next time around. Cool on 
the feet and I can work in some nice patterns. Good ballast too. 

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-02-02, at 1:02, Bill McNamara  wrote:

Last season we heat stripped the cabin sole of our '78 34' and re-did it with 
Epifanes.
7 coats of clear gloss, thinned 25%, then 3 coats  Satin Epifanes, also 
thinned, to kill the gloss and slip hazards.
Once the prep work is done, the multiple coats EASILY build protection and fill 
grain nicely.
 Light hand sanding and tack rag between coats, Scotch-Bright and tack between 
Satin coats.
 VERY happy with the performance and appearance.
 
Bill McNamara
Miss Conduct
Picton On.
 
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Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini

[Andrew Burton]

I know Kinder. They are very high quality and charge for it.

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Feb 2, 2013, at 8:22 PM, "djhaug...@juno.com"  wrote:

> Andy,
>  
> Here is the other canvas shop I found during my search for a winter cover.  
> they came in a little higher than fairclough by a few hundred.  However I 
> found a few posts that were happy with their winter covers from them.
>  
> Kinder Industries
> 26 Burnside Street
> Bristol RI 02809
> 401-253-7076
>  
> You may want to try fairclough.  I'm not 100% sure they do bimini's but they 
> offered me a 10% winter discount for the winter cover and their service was 
> fast and the cover looks great.  I really found no negative comments about 
> them.
>  
> The disclaimer, I have no affiliation with any sail or canvas shops except as 
> a customer.
>  
> Good luck on your search and purchase.
>  
> Danny
> Lolita
> 1973 Viking 33
> Westport Point, MA
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: Danny Haughey 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 09:17:37 -0500
> 
> Andy,
>  
> You should wait a couple weeks and go to the Boston boat show.  You get a few 
> canvas Venders there and get boat show discount.  Thurston canvas was not 
> there last year but Thurston sails were.  Thurston sails gave me a 15% 
> discount but Thurston canvas would not because he said they are different 
> companies and he did not attend the show.  I think Thurston sails give more 
> competitive pricing than Thurston canvas.  I asked for a winter cover quote 
> from Thurston and they were 4200.  I got a cover from fairclough for 2600.  
> It seemed Apple's to Apple's...
>  
> I would really call every one.  I have to go back into the archives and get 
> you another reputable shop over in Bristol
>  
>  
> From my Android phone 
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Andrew Burton  
> Date: 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I gave Neil a call and he's working up a quote for me.
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine 
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
>  
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
> 
> On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:31 PM, "Harry"  wrote:
> 
> Andy,
> 
> Ditto Thurston.  Steve Thurston just made a new Quantum jib for me…excellent 
> service and pricing.
> 
>  
> 
> Harry
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
> djhaug...@juno.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 20134:18 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
> 
>  
> 
> I would try Thurston Canvass in Bristol, RI and Harding sails over in Marion. 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Danny
> 
> Lolita
> 
> 1973 Viking 33
> 
> Westport Point, MA
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: Andrew Burton 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:27:19 -0500
> 
> I need to put a bimini top on my boat for this summer. Has anyone info on 
> where to go for a canvas company in New England that's made one for a C&C 40? 
> 
> Andy
> 
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> -- 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett Ave
> Newport, RI
> USA 02840
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> phone� +401 965 5260
> 
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Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes

[Andrew Burton]

Why wouldn't you go with granite? It polishes up nicely and is available in a 
number of different colors. I'd continue the motif into the cockpit sole.It 
wears well, too.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Feb 2, 2013, at 3:35 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> Great ideas! Thank you. And it will go very well with the AstroTurf in the 
> cockpit. It's all party-proof. A good thing!
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo. LF38
> Halifax
> 
> On 2013-02-02, at 12:55, "Dennis C."  wrote:
> 
> Rich,
> 
> Due to the small space, I'd suggest 4 inch tiles with 1/4 inch spacing.  
> Maybe a rectangle in the center of the salon framed with dark emperador 
> marble and filled with tiles on a diagonal.  Nice way to get more ballast.  :)
> 
> Or maybe some nice Mexican tile.  You could build in a nice gas grill against 
> the forward bulkhead.  Don't forget the tiki torches and granite countertops.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83 (love my fiberglass sole covered with olefin carpet!)
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> 
> From: Rich Knowles 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
> Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes
> 
> I guess this proves once more that there are as many ways to finish cabin 
> soles as there are boat owners. Maybe I'll try ceramic tile next time around. 
> Cool on the feet and I can work in some nice patterns. Good ballast too. 
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo. LF38
> Halifax
> 
> On 2013-02-02, at 1:02, Bill McNamara  wrote:
> 
> Last season we heat stripped the cabin sole of our '78 34' and re-did it with 
> Epifanes.
> 7 coats of clear gloss, thinned 25%, then 3 coats Satin Epifanes, also 
> thinned, to kill the gloss and slip hazards.
> Once the prep work is done, the multiple coats EASILY build protection and 
> fill grain nicely.
>  Light hand sanding and tack rag between coats, Scotch-Bright and tack 
> between Satin coats.
>  VERY happy with the performance and appearance.
>  
> Bill McNamara
> Miss Conduct
> Picton On.
>  
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery sole and cockpit floor

[Chuck S]

Or try diamond plate in carbon fiber? 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Andrew Burton"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:45:43 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes 


Why wouldn't you go with granite? It polishes up nicely and is available in a 
number of different colors. I'd continue the motif into the cockpit sole.It 
wears well, too. 
Andy 
C&C 40 
Peregrine 

Andrew Burton 
61 W Narragansett 
Newport, RI 
USA 02840 

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Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein

[randy]

And if we haven't beat this to death yet, (it is winter, after all.) one
more on gnss and time."

 

http://www.profsurv.com/magazine/article.aspx?i=71249

 

randy

Tamanawas

29-II

Hood River, OR

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Leslie
Paal
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:45 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein

 

some numbers to put it into perspective

1) clocks at GPS orbital altitudes will tick faster by about 45,900 ns/day
2) clocks moving at GPS orbital speeds will tick slower by about 7,200
ns/day
3) clocks adjusted before launch to these numbers, resulting no more than
+/- 200 ns/day error
(1 ns = 1 foot)

4) gravitational lensing is not an issue, and there is no difference in the
speed of light in any direction from an observer (GPS related)

5) there is some curving of the RF signal due to air density changes, ground
users can ignore it.

6) accuracy of the orbital position of each satellite is the major component
of the solution accuracy.  Satellites do not fly in perfect, repetitive
circle.  For example the pressure of the sunlight is a very observable
effect

 

To get "extreme" accuracy, down to a couple of centimeters, is not done in
real time.  It takes inputs from many different sources and long
computations.  But it is very satisfactory when the ground observations
match the GPS solutions...

 

Leslie.

 

  _  

From: "dre...@gmail.com" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein





Hi,

 

While we are chatting about how GPS works and its accuracy, I would like add
a few interesting tidbits.   

 

A good part of the accuracy come from taking Einstein's Relativity into
account.  Special Relativistic effects like properly calculating doppler
shifts and relative motion are important, but also General Relativistic
effects need to be applied.   For example, Special Relativity states that
moving clocks run slower, but General Relativity states that clocks run
slower in a gravitational field.   Satellites are moving fast compared to
someone on Earth so this makes their clocks to run slower.  But satellites
feel less of the earth's gravity so our Earth-bound clocks run slower.
Since a satellite speed, while fast to us is slow relative to the speed of
light,  our Earthly clocks end up running slower than clocks on GPS
satellites (~50 microseconds/day which amounts to about a 7 nautical mile
spread!).  Also, light (i.e. GPS signals) do not travel in a straight path
as one assumes in triangulating a "fix".  Rather matter curves space around
it, so GPS signals actually bend (i.e. gravitational lensing).  The latter
effect, which is tiny compared to the former, was actually proved using a
sextant of sort, by measuring a star's position during a solar eclipse in
1919.

 

While these effects are ordinarily insignificant for life on Earth, they are
important on the scale of GPS accuracy.I am sure that Einstein did not
have GPS in mind when he wrote down the theory of Relativity, but I'll still
thank him nonetheless.

 

 

-
Paul E.
1979 C&C 29 Mk1
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL 

 

On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:44 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:





Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 05:55:03 +
From: "Brent Driedger" < 
bren...@highspeedcrow.ca>
To: "Leslie Paal" <  lpaalc...@yahoo.com>,
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy
Message-ID:
  <499177535-1359438905-

cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1984730907-@b17.c8.bise6.blackberry
>
  
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

I'm enjoying this in depth GPS education.
I recall some scuttlebutt in Sail magazine a year or two ago warning that
most of the birds in the system were approaching their "best before date" of
over 25 years and without getting immediate replacement the system would be
down a few leaving some holes or temporary signal loss in some locations in
the coming years. Have you heard any updates to this rumor?

Brent Driedger
s/v Wild Rover
C&C 27-5
Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone on the MTS High Speed Mobility Network

-Original Message-
From: Leslie Paal <  lpaalc...@yahoo.com>
Sender: "CnC-List" < 
cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:04:01 
To:   cnc-list@cnc-list.com<
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Reply-To: Leslie Paal <  lpaalc...@yahoo.com>,
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy

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Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes

[Rich Knowles]

I was really thinking of terrazzo as a good compromise. Getting the finishing 
gear below is the big problem. I'll take some pics. 

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-02-02, at 15:45, Andrew Burton  wrote:

Why wouldn't you go with granite? It polishes up nicely and is available in a 
number of different colors. I'd continue the motif into the cockpit sole.It 
wears well, too.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Feb 2, 2013, at 3:35 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> Great ideas! Thank you. And it will go very well with the AstroTurf in the 
> cockpit. It's all party-proof. A good thing!
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo. LF38
> Halifax
> 
> On 2013-02-02, at 12:55, "Dennis C."  wrote:
> 
> Rich,
> 
> Due to the small space, I'd suggest 4 inch tiles with 1/4 inch spacing.  
> Maybe a rectangle in the center of the salon framed with dark emperador 
> marble and filled with tiles on a diagonal.  Nice way to get more ballast.  :)
> 
> Or maybe some nice Mexican tile.  You could build in a nice gas grill against 
> the forward bulkhead.  Don't forget the tiki torches and granite countertops.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83 (love my fiberglass sole covered with olefin carpet!)
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> 
> From: Rich Knowles 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
> Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes
> 
> I guess this proves once more that there are as many ways to finish cabin 
> soles as there are boat owners. Maybe I'll try ceramic tile next time around. 
> Cool on the feet and I can work in some nice patterns. Good ballast too. 
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo. LF38
> Halifax
> 
> On 2013-02-02, at 1:02, Bill McNamara  wrote:
> 
> Last season we heat stripped the cabin sole of our '78 34' and re-did it with 
> Epifanes.
> 7 coats of clear gloss, thinned 25%, then 3 coats  Satin Epifanes, also 
> thinned, to kill the gloss and slip hazards.
> Once the prep work is done, the multiple coats EASILY build protection and 
> fill grain nicely.
>  Light hand sanding and tack rag between coats, Scotch-Bright and tack 
> between Satin coats.
>  VERY happy with the performance and appearance.
>  
> Bill McNamara
> Miss Conduct
> Picton On.
>  
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery sole and cockpit floor

[Don Harben]

         Galvanized industrial refining plant grating will never need 
attention, ever ...

Don
  



>
> From: Chuck S 
>To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
>Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:54:18 PM
>Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery sole and cockpit floor
> 
>
>Or try diamond plate in carbon fiber?  
>
>
>Chuck
>Resolute
>1990 C&C 34R
>Atlantic City, NJ
>
>
>From: "Andrew Burton" 
>To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:45:43 PM
>Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes
>
>
>Why wouldn't you go with granite? It polishes up nicely and is available in a 
>number of different colors. I'd continue the motif into the cockpit sole.It 
>wears well, too.
>Andy
>C&C 40
>Peregrine
>
>Andrew Burton
>61 W Narragansett
>Newport, RI 
>USA    02840
>
>
>___
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>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery sole and cockpit floor

[dwight veinot]

If you like black, asphalt and for grey, reinforced concrete could be made
to look pretty, like the countertops, both would also get some weight where
it might help stability 

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don
Harben
Sent: February 2, 2013 5:22 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery sole and cockpit floor

 

 

 Galvanized industrial refining plant grating will never need
attention, ever ...

 

  Don

  

 


  _  


From: Chuck S 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:54:18 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery sole and cockpit floor

 

Or try diamond plate in carbon fiber?  

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ


  _  


From: "Andrew Burton" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:45:43 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes

Why wouldn't you go with granite? It polishes up nicely and is available in
a number of different colors. I'd continue the motif into the cockpit
sole.It wears well, too.

Andy

C&C 40

Peregrine

Andrew Burton

61 W Narragansett

Newport, RI 

USA02840

 

 


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CnC-List@cnc-list.com



  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5576 - Release Date: 02/02/13

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Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery sole and cockpit floor

[Rich Knowles]

Not true!  Galvanised steel is prone to rusting eventually in a high salinity 
environment. 316 stainless grating would be the answer, but it's awful hard on 
bare feet. 

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-02-02, at 16:21, Don Harben  wrote:


 Galvanized industrial refining plant grating will never need 
attention, ever ...

Don
  

From: Chuck S 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:54:18 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery sole and cockpit floor

Or try diamond plate in carbon fiber?  

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ
From: "Andrew Burton" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:45:43 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Non-Slippery Epifanes

Why wouldn't you go with granite? It polishes up nicely and is available in a 
number of different colors. I'd continue the motif into the cockpit sole.It 
wears well, too.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840



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Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini

[djhaug...@juno.com]

They were considerably less than Thurston on my winter cover quote.  Like 25% 
less.Couldn't hurt to get a quote. Danny

-- Original Message --
From: Andrew Burton 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 15:41:59 -0500


I know Kinder. They are very high quality and charge for it.

Andrew Burton61 W NarragansettNewport, RI USA02840 
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/+401 965-5260
On Feb 2, 2013, at 8:22 PM, "djhaug...@juno.com"  wrote:

Andy, Here is the other canvas shop I found during my search for a winter 
cover.  they came in a little higher than fairclough by a few hundred.  However 
I found a few posts that were happy with their winter covers from them. Kinder 
Industries
26 Burnside Street
Bristol RI 02809
401-253-7076 You may want to try fairclough.  I'm not 100% sure they do 
bimini's but they offered me a 10% winter discount for the winter cover and 
their service was fast and the cover looks great.  I really found no negative 
comments about them. The disclaimer, I have no affiliation with any sail or 
canvas shops except as a customer. Good luck on your search and purchase. 
DannyLolita1973 Viking 33Westport Point, MA

-- Original Message --
From: Danny Haughey 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 09:17:37 -0500

 
Andy, You should wait a couple weeks and go to the Boston boat show.  You get a 
few canvas Venders there and get boat show discount.  Thurston canvas was not 
there last year but Thurston sails were.  Thurston sails gave me a 15% discount 
but Thurston canvas would not because he said they are different companies and 
he did not attend the show.  I think Thurston sails give more competitive 
pricing than Thurston canvas.  I asked for a winter cover quote from Thurston 
and they were 4200.  I got a cover from fairclough for 2600.  It seemed Apple's 
to Apple's... I would really call every one.  I have to go back into the 
archives and get you another reputable shop over in Bristol  From my Android 
phone 


 Original message 
From: Andrew Burton  
Date: 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini 
 


Thanks, I gave Neil a call and he's working up a quote for me.AndyC&C 
40Peregrine 

Andrew Burton61 W NarragansettNewport, RI USA02840 
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/+401 965-5260
On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:31 PM, "Harry"  wrote:

Andy,
Ditto Thurston.  Steve Thurston just made a new Quantum jib for 
me…excellent service and pricing.
 
Harry
 
 
 
-Original Message-
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
djhaug...@juno.com
 Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 20134:18 PM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
 
I would try Thurston Canvass in Bristol, RI and Harding sails over in Marion.  
 
Danny
Lolita
1973 Viking 33
Westport Point, MA

 
 -- Original Message --
 From: Andrew Burton 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
 Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:27:19 -0500
 
 I need to put a bimini top on my boat for this summer. Has anyone info on 
where to go for a canvas company in New England that's made one for a C&C 40? 
 
 Andy
 
 C&C 40
 Peregrine 
 -- 
 Andrew Burton
 61 W Narragansett Ave
 Newport, RI
 USA 02840
 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
 phone� +401 965 5260
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Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini

[Andrew Burton]

I'll do that. Thanks!

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:20 PM, "djhaug...@juno.com"  wrote:

> They were considerably less than Thurston on my winter cover quote.  Like 25% 
> less.
> Couldn't hurt to get a quote.
>  
> Danny
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: Andrew Burton 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 15:41:59 -0500
> 
> I know Kinder. They are very high quality and charge for it.
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
>  
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
> 
> On Feb 2, 2013, at 8:22 PM, "djhaug...@juno.com"  wrote:
> 
> Andy,
>  
> Here is the other canvas shop I found during my search for a winter cover.  
> they came in a little higher than fairclough by a few hundred.  However I 
> found a few posts that were happy with their winter covers from them.
>  
> Kinder Industries
> 26 Burnside Street
> Bristol RI 02809
> 401-253-7076
>  
> You may want to try fairclough.  I'm not 100% sure they do bimini's but they 
> offered me a 10% winter discount for the winter cover and their service was 
> fast and the cover looks great.  I really found no negative comments about 
> them.
>  
> The disclaimer, I have no affiliation with any sail or canvas shops except as 
> a customer.
>  
> Good luck on your search and purchase.
>  
> Danny
> Lolita
> 1973 Viking 33
> Westport Point, MA
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: Danny Haughey 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 09:17:37 -0500
> 
>  
> 
> Andy,
>  
> You should wait a couple weeks and go to the Boston boat show.  You get a few 
> canvas Venders there and get boat show discount.  Thurston canvas was not 
> there last year but Thurston sails were.  Thurston sails gave me a 15% 
> discount but Thurston canvas would not because he said they are different 
> companies and he did not attend the show.  I think Thurston sails give more 
> competitive pricing than Thurston canvas.  I asked for a winter cover quote 
> from Thurston and they were 4200.  I got a cover from fairclough for 2600.  
> It seemed Apple's to Apple's...
>  
> I would really call every one.  I have to go back into the archives and get 
> you another reputable shop over in Bristol
>  
>  
> From my Android phone 
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Andrew Burton  
> Date: 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I gave Neil a call and he's working up a quote for me.
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine 
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
>  
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
> 
> On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:31 PM, "Harry"  wrote:
> 
> Andy,
> 
> Ditto Thurston.  Steve Thurston just made a new Quantum jib for me…excellent 
> service and pricing.
> 
>  
> 
> Harry
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
> djhaug...@juno.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 20134:18 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
> 
>  
> 
> I would try Thurston Canvass in Bristol, RI and Harding sails over in Marion. 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Danny
> 
> Lolita
> 
> 1973 Viking 33
> 
> Westport Point, MA
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: Andrew Burton 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List C&C 40 Bimini
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:27:19 -0500
> 
> I need to put a bimini top on my boat for this summer. Has anyone info on 
> where to go for a canvas company in New England that's made one for a C&C 40? 
> 
> Andy
> 
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> -- 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett Ave
> Newport, RI
> USA 02840
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> phone� +401 965 5260
> 
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Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein

[Leslie Paal]

And 'then' you try to reduce the number of rubidium atoms used in the 'gas' 
since the various isotopes have slightly different native frequency.  The best 
is to keep one atom in the field of observation, then the frequency will be 
consistent...

It works most of the time in the lab, people are working on it to make it 
practical.  It is at least a 100 times more accurate.


;-)

Leslie.




 From: randy 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein
 

And if we haven’t beat this to death yet, (it is winter, after all…) one more 
on gnss and time…”
 
http://www.profsurv.com/magazine/article.aspx?i=71249
 
randy
Tamanawas
29-II
Hood River, OR
 
 
 
From:CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Paal
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:45 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein
 
some numbers to put it into perspective

1) clocks at GPS orbital altitudes will tick faster by about 45,900 ns/day
2) clocks moving at GPS orbital speeds will tick slower by about 7,200 ns/day
3) clocks adjusted before launch to these numbers, resulting no more than +/- 
200 ns/day error
(1 ns = 1 foot)
4) gravitational lensing is not an issue, and there is no difference in the 
speed of light in any direction from an observer (GPS related)
5) there is some curving of the RF signal due to air density changes, ground 
users can ignore it.
6) accuracy of the orbital position of each satellite is the major component of 
the solution accuracy.  Satellites do not fly in perfect, repetitive circle.  
For example the pressure of the sunlight is a very observable effect
 
To get "extreme" accuracy, down to a couple of centimeters, is not done in real 
time.  It takes inputs from many different sources and long computations.  But 
it is very satisfactory when the ground observations match the GPS solutions...
 
Leslie.
 



From:"dre...@gmail.com" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein


Hi,
 
While we are chatting about how GPS works and its accuracy, I would like add a 
few interesting tidbits.   
 
A good part of the accuracy come from taking Einstein's Relativity into 
account.  Special Relativistic effects like properly calculating doppler shifts 
and relative motion are important, but also General Relativistic effects need 
to be applied.   For example, Special Relativity states that moving clocks run 
slower, but General Relativity states that clocks run slower in a gravitational 
field.   Satellites are moving fast compared to someone on Earth so this makes 
their clocks to run slower.  But satellites feel less of the earth's gravity so 
our Earth-bound clocks run slower.  Since a satellite speed, while fast to us 
is slow relative to the speed of light,  our Earthly clocks end up running 
slower than clocks on GPS satellites (~50 microseconds/day which amounts to 
about a 7 nautical mile spread!).  Also, light (i.e. GPS signals) do not travel 
in a straight path as one assumes in triangulating a "fix".  Rather matter 
curves space around it, so
 GPS signals actually bend (i.e. gravitational lensing).  The latter effect, 
which is tiny compared to the former, was actually proved using a sextant of 
sort, by measuring a star's position during a solar eclipse in 1919.
 
While these effects are ordinarily insignificant for life on Earth, they are 
important on the scale of GPS accuracy.    I am sure that Einstein did not have 
GPS in mind when he wrote down the theory of Relativity, but I'll still thank 
him nonetheless.
 
 
-
Paul E.
1979 C&C 29 Mk1
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL 
 
On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:44 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:


Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 05:55:03 +
From: "Brent Driedger" 
To: "Leslie Paal" , cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy
Message-ID:
  
<499177535-1359438905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1984730907-@b17.c8.bise6.blackberry>
  
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

I'm enjoying this in depth GPS education.
I recall some scuttlebutt in Sail magazine a year or two ago warning that most 
of the birds in the system were approaching their "best before date" of over 25 
years and without getting immediate replacement the system would be down a few 
leaving some holes or temporary signal loss in some locations in the coming 
years. Have you heard any updates to this rumor?

Brent Driedger
s/v Wild Rover
C&C 27-5
Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone on the MTS High Speed Mobility Network

-Original Message-
From: Leslie Paal 
Sender: "CnC-List" 
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:04:01 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Reply-To: Leslie Paal , cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy

__

Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein

[randy]

Well, sure, Leslie, but this one’s not much bigger than a quarter!  It’ll be so 
much easier to keep track of time when doing sun shots!

 

;-)

 

randy

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Paal
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:57 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein

 

And 'then' you try to reduce the number of rubidium atoms used in the 'gas' 
since the various isotopes have slightly different native frequency.  The best 
is to keep one atom in the field of observation, then the frequency will be 
consistent...

It works most of the time in the lab, people are working on it to make it 
practical.  It is at least a 100 times more accurate.

 

;-)

Leslie.

 

  _  

From: randy 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein





And if we haven’t beat this to death yet, (it is winter, after all…) one more 
on gnss and time…”

 

http://www.profsurv.com/magazine/article.aspx?i=71249

 

randy

Tamanawas

29-II

Hood River, OR

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Paal
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:45 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein

 

some numbers to put it into perspective

1) clocks at GPS orbital altitudes will tick faster by about 45,900 ns/day
2) clocks moving at GPS orbital speeds will tick slower by about 7,200 ns/day
3) clocks adjusted before launch to these numbers, resulting no more than +/- 
200 ns/day error
(1 ns = 1 foot)

4) gravitational lensing is not an issue, and there is no difference in the 
speed of light in any direction from an observer (GPS related)

5) there is some curving of the RF signal due to air density changes, ground 
users can ignore it.

6) accuracy of the orbital position of each satellite is the major component of 
the solution accuracy.  Satellites do not fly in perfect, repetitive circle.  
For example the pressure of the sunlight is a very observable effect

 

To get "extreme" accuracy, down to a couple of centimeters, is not done in real 
time.  It takes inputs from many different sources and long computations.  But 
it is very satisfactory when the ground observations match the GPS solutions...

 

Leslie.

 

  _  

From: "dre...@gmail.com" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein

 

Hi,

 

While we are chatting about how GPS works and its accuracy, I would like add a 
few interesting tidbits.   

 

A good part of the accuracy come from taking Einstein's Relativity into 
account.  Special Relativistic effects like properly calculating doppler shifts 
and relative motion are important, but also General Relativistic effects need 
to be applied.   For example, Special Relativity states that moving clocks run 
slower, but General Relativity states that clocks run slower in a gravitational 
field.   Satellites are moving fast compared to someone on Earth so this makes 
their clocks to run slower.  But satellites feel less of the earth's gravity so 
our Earth-bound clocks run slower.  Since a satellite speed, while fast to us 
is slow relative to the speed of light,  our Earthly clocks end up running 
slower than clocks on GPS satellites (~50 microseconds/day which amounts to 
about a 7 nautical mile spread!).  Also, light (i.e. GPS signals) do not travel 
in a straight path as one assumes in triangulating a "fix".  Rather matter 
curves space around it, so GPS signals actually bend (i.e. gravitational 
lensing).  The latter effect, which is tiny compared to the former, was 
actually proved using a sextant of sort, by measuring a star's position during 
a solar eclipse in 1919.

 

While these effects are ordinarily insignificant for life on Earth, they are 
important on the scale of GPS accuracy.I am sure that Einstein did not have 
GPS in mind when he wrote down the theory of Relativity, but I'll still thank 
him nonetheless.

 

 

-
Paul E.
1979 C&C 29 Mk1
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL 

 

On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:44 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

 

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 05:55:03 +
From: "Brent Driedger" <  
bren...@highspeedcrow.ca>
To: "Leslie Paal" <  lpaalc...@yahoo.com>,  
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy
Message-ID:
  <499177535-1359438905- 

 cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1984730907-@b17.c8.bise6.blackberry>
  
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

I'm enjoying this in depth GPS education.
I recall some scuttlebutt in Sail magazine a year or two ago warning that most 
of the birds in the system were approaching their

Stus-List 35-3 cushions and Gas systems oven parts

[Howard and Skippy]

I have an almost complete set of interior cushions in mostly good shape 
for free for a 35-3.  If anyone wants them and will pay the freight or 
come get them, they are yours.  Does anyone have a lead for parts for a 
Gas Systems 3 burner range and oven?  the top right burner on mine does 
not work and it is the feed for the oven which works, but not too well.  
Would rather replace and repair than get a new one.  Thanks for any info.

Howard Paul, Knot Again 35-3.


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List 35-3 cushions and Gas systems oven parts

[Joel Aronson]

Howard
Where are you located?

Joel Aronson


On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:29 PM, Howard and Skippy  wrote:

> I have an almost complete set of interior cushions in mostly good shape for 
> free for a 35-3.  If anyone wants them and will pay the freight or come get 
> them, they are yours.  Does anyone have a lead for parts for a Gas Systems 3 
> burner range and oven?  the top right burner on mine does not work and it is 
> the feed for the oven which works, but not too well.  Would rather replace 
> and repair than get a new one.  Thanks for any info.
> Howard Paul, Knot Again 35-3.
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List 35-3 cushions and Gas systems oven parts

[Dennis C.]

Maybe this will help:  http://www.suremarine.com/stove-repair.htm  

From near the top of the page 

"This oven troubleshooting guide was written specifically for 
Seaward / Princess / Hillerange stoves manufactured prior to September 2007
It is applicable to many other brands of RV & marine stoves including 
many Magic Chef, Wedgewood, Kenyon, & early Gas Systems ovens (not the REGAL)."


Dennis C.




>
> From: Howard and Skippy 
>To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
>Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 9:28 PM
>Subject: Stus-List 35-3 cushions and Gas systems oven parts
> 
>I have an almost complete set of interior cushions in mostly good shape for 
>free for a 35-3.  If anyone wants them and will pay the freight or come get 
>them, they are yours.  Does anyone have a lead for parts for a Gas Systems 3 
>burner range and oven?  the top right burner on mine does not work and it is 
>the feed for the oven which works, but not too well.  Would rather replace and 
>repair than get a new one.  Thanks for any info.
>Howard Paul, Knot Again 35-3.
>
>
>___
>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Stus-List 35-3 cushions

[Howard and Skippy]

Sorry all,
Forgot to mention that the 35-3 cushions are in North Brunswick, NJ
Howard

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein

[Leslie Paal]

Randy,

I agree a 10%.  Those last few femtoseconds really reduce the uncertainty 
circle...


Brings back wonderful memories, many a night spent in the desert using the Deep 
Space Network antennas for the development of the uplink arraying capability.  
Luckily, I only had to worry about picoseconds accuracy in measuring 20+ 
minutes of oneway light-time.

The first sentence is sailing related!  The rest is...   ;-)

Leslie.




 From: randy 
To: 'Leslie Paal' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 4:17 PM
Subject: RE: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein
 

Well, sure, Leslie, but this one’s not much bigger than a quarter!  It’ll be so 
much easier to keep track of time when doing sun shots!
 
;-)
 
randy
 
From:CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Paal
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:57 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein
 
And 'then' you try to reduce the number of rubidium atoms used in the 'gas' 
since the various isotopes have slightly different native frequency.  The best 
is to keep one atom in the field of observation, then the frequency will be 
consistent...

It works most of the time in the lab, people are working on it to make it 
practical.  It is at least a 100 times more accurate.
 
;-)
Leslie.
 



From:randy 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein


And if we haven’t beat this to death yet, (it is winter, after all…) one more 
on gnss and time…”
 
http://www.profsurv.com/magazine/article.aspx?i=71249
 
randy
Tamanawas
29-II
Hood River, OR
 
 
 
From:CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Paal
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:45 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein
 
some numbers to put it into perspective

1) clocks at GPS orbital altitudes will tick faster by about 45,900 ns/day
2) clocks moving at GPS orbital speeds will tick slower by about 7,200 ns/day
3) clocks adjusted before launch to these numbers, resulting no more than +/- 
200 ns/day error
(1 ns = 1 foot)
4) gravitational lensing is not an issue, and there is no difference in the 
speed of light in any direction from an observer (GPS related)
5) there is some curving of the RF signal due to air density changes, ground 
users can ignore it.
6) accuracy of the orbital position of each satellite is the major component of 
the solution accuracy.  Satellites do not fly in perfect, repetitive circle.  
For example the pressure of the sunlight is a very observable effect
 
To get "extreme" accuracy, down to a couple of centimeters, is not done in real 
time.  It takes inputs from many different sources and long computations.  But 
it is very satisfactory when the ground observations match the GPS solutions...
 
Leslie.
 



From:"dre...@gmail.com" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein
 
Hi,
 
While we are chatting about how GPS works and its accuracy, I would like add a 
few interesting tidbits.   
 
A good part of the accuracy come from taking Einstein's Relativity into 
account.  Special Relativistic effects like properly calculating doppler shifts 
and relative motion are important, but also General Relativistic effects need 
to be applied.   For example, Special Relativity states that moving clocks run 
slower, but General Relativity states that clocks run slower in a gravitational 
field.   Satellites are moving fast compared to someone on Earth so this makes 
their clocks to run slower.  But satellites feel less of the earth's gravity so 
our Earth-bound clocks run slower.  Since a satellite speed, while fast to us 
is slow relative to the speed of light,  our Earthly clocks end up running 
slower than clocks on GPS satellites (~50 microseconds/day which amounts to 
about a 7 nautical mile spread!).  Also, light (i.e. GPS signals) do not travel 
in a straight path as one assumes in triangulating a "fix".  Rather matter 
curves space around it, so
 GPS signals actually bend (i.e. gravitational lensing).  The latter effect, 
which is tiny compared to the former, was actually proved using a sextant of 
sort, by measuring a star's position during a solar eclipse in 1919.
 
While these effects are ordinarily insignificant for life on Earth, they are 
important on the scale of GPS accuracy.    I am sure that Einstein did not have 
GPS in mind when he wrote down the theory of Relativity, but I'll still thank 
him nonetheless.
 
 
-
Paul E.
1979 C&C 29 Mk1
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL 
 
On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:44 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 05:55:03 +
From: "Brent Driedger" 
To: "Leslie Paal" , cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: St