Well, sure, Leslie, but this one’s not much bigger than a quarter! It’ll be so much easier to keep track of time when doing sun shots!
;-) randy From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Paal Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:57 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein And 'then' you try to reduce the number of rubidium atoms used in the 'gas' since the various isotopes have slightly different native frequency. The best is to keep one atom in the field of observation, then the frequency will be consistent... It works most of the time in the lab, people are working on it to make it practical. It is at least a 100 times more accurate. ;-) Leslie. _____ From: randy <spins...@embarqmail.com> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 1:03 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein And if we haven’t beat this to death yet, (it is winter, after all…) one more on gnss and time…” http://www.profsurv.com/magazine/article.aspx?i=71249 randy Tamanawas 29-II Hood River, OR From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Paal Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:45 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein some numbers to put it into perspective 1) clocks at GPS orbital altitudes will tick faster by about 45,900 ns/day 2) clocks moving at GPS orbital speeds will tick slower by about 7,200 ns/day 3) clocks adjusted before launch to these numbers, resulting no more than +/- 200 ns/day error (1 ns = 1 foot) 4) gravitational lensing is not an issue, and there is no difference in the speed of light in any direction from an observer (GPS related) 5) there is some curving of the RF signal due to air density changes, ground users can ignore it. 6) accuracy of the orbital position of each satellite is the major component of the solution accuracy. Satellites do not fly in perfect, repetitive circle. For example the pressure of the sunlight is a very observable effect.... To get "extreme" accuracy, down to a couple of centimeters, is not done in real time. It takes inputs from many different sources and long computations. But it is very satisfactory when the ground observations match the GPS solutions... Leslie. _____ From: "dre...@gmail.com" <dre...@gmail.com> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:04 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy & Einstein Hi, While we are chatting about how GPS works and its accuracy, I would like add a few interesting tidbits. A good part of the accuracy come from taking Einstein's Relativity into account. Special Relativistic effects like properly calculating doppler shifts and relative motion are important, but also General Relativistic effects need to be applied. For example, Special Relativity states that moving clocks run slower, but General Relativity states that clocks run slower in a gravitational field. Satellites are moving fast compared to someone on Earth so this makes their clocks to run slower. But satellites feel less of the earth's gravity so our Earth-bound clocks run slower. Since a satellite speed, while fast to us is slow relative to the speed of light, our Earthly clocks end up running slower than clocks on GPS satellites (~50 microseconds/day which amounts to about a 7 nautical mile spread!). Also, light (i.e. GPS signals) do not travel in a straight path as one assumes in triangulating a "fix". Rather matter curves space around it, so GPS signals actually bend (i.e. gravitational lensing). The latter effect, which is tiny compared to the former, was actually proved using a sextant of sort, by measuring a star's position during a solar eclipse in 1919. While these effects are ordinarily insignificant for life on Earth, they are important on the scale of GPS accuracy. I am sure that Einstein did not have GPS in mind when he wrote down the theory of Relativity, but I'll still thank him nonetheless. - Paul E. 1979 C&C 29 Mk1 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:44 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Message: 5 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 05:55:03 +0000 From: "Brent Driedger" < <mailto:bren...@highspeedcrow.ca> bren...@highspeedcrow.ca> To: "Leslie Paal" < <mailto:lpaalc...@yahoo.com> lpaalc...@yahoo.com>, <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy Message-ID: <499177535-1359438905- <mailto:cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1984730907-@b17.c8.bise6.blackberry> cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1984730907-@b17.c8.bise6.blackberry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" I'm enjoying this in depth GPS education. I recall some scuttlebutt in Sail magazine a year or two ago warning that most of the birds in the system were approaching their "best before date" of over 25 years and without getting immediate replacement the system would be down a few leaving some holes or temporary signal loss in some locations in the coming years. Have you heard any updates to this rumor? Brent Driedger s/v Wild Rover C&C 27-5 Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone on the MTS High Speed Mobility Network -----Original Message----- From: Leslie Paal < <mailto:lpaalc...@yahoo.com> lpaalc...@yahoo.com> Sender: "CnC-List" < <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:04:01 To: <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com< <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Reply-To: Leslie Paal < <mailto:lpaalc...@yahoo.com> lpaalc...@yahoo.com>, <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List More on GPS accuracy _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/ <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> CnC-List@cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com <http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/> CnC-List@cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com <http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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