[Video] The Generative Generation

[Mayank Jain]

*Summary*
Aaron Bedra shows code samples for writing Clojure tests using the
test.generative framework, explaining why this framework and testing are
useful.

*Bio*
Aaron Bedra is a senior software engineer at Groupon. He is a frequent
contributor to the Clojure language and its supporting libraries as well as
an active member of the Clojure community. Aaron has led the development of
several commercial Clojure projects and is the co-author of Programming
Clojure, 2nd Edition

*About the conference*
Clojure/West is a new conference bringing the Clojure community together to
discuss techniques, tools, and the state of the Clojure ecosystem March
16-17th for three tracks of sessions. Prior to the conference, register for
three days of training by the Clojure experts.

Link : http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Clojure-Generative-Testing

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Re: Fund raiser for our projects

[John Gabriele]

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 3:40:12 PM UTC-4, Simone Mosciatti wrote:
>
>  

Then still there if I write one article, you write another and @whoever 
> write the next we will have 3 different articles in 3 different blogs, 
> honestly I am sure that 3 articles doesn't worth 3 page of real 
> documentation (and because in your article you cannot assume that your 
> readers know what you are talking about, but you can do so in the second 
> page of a wiki, and because probably the maintaners of the lib would write 
> it better)
>
>
Another factor to consider is that folks often prefer blogging (which gives 
them recognition) rather than adding to a project's wiki (which tends to 
give the project author credit).

Phil wrote:
> It can be helpful in some cases to blog about how you got something 
> working, but it's much more helpful to contribute to the official 
> documentation, even if it's more work. In many cases the project changes 
> in the future and third-party blog documentation ends up doing more harm 
> than good. 

Here's a possible solution: write your article as a wiki page in the 
project's wiki, while simultaneously posting it as a blog post. Have the 
blog post contain a link at the top pointing to the wiki article. This way:

  * the author gets public recognition for their work,
  * the blog post doesn't need to be updated (and can be kept in its 
current state for posterity),
  * the wiki article can be kept up-to-date, and
  * months later, readers who stumble upon the blog post can easily find 
the most current version of the article at the wiki.
 

> Finally you cannot assume that the creators of a library will be always 
> there to help us, they may change career, they may don't have time anymore 
> for some stuff, they may move in Buthan, however you can be about sure that 
> a wiki page will still.
>
>
As an aside, note that when you clone a github repo, you don't get the wiki 
too. :) To clone the wiki, visit the wiki and click the "Git Access" tab 
(though, it currently doesn't look much like a tab) for info.

---John

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Literate Programming in org-babel (ob-clojure.el) is broken under nrepl.el

[lambdatronic]

For those people (like myself) who do a lot of Literate Programming in 
Emacs using Clojure and org-babel, migrating to nrepl and nrepl.el is 
somewhat non-trivial. This is because the existing Clojure support in 
org-babel (ob-clojure.el) relies on slime and swank-clojure when running 
org-babel-execute-src-block (which redirects to org-babel-execute:clojure 
in ob-clojure.el).

So clearly this is actually an issue for both nrepl.el and ob-clojure.el, 
not simply one or the other. All the same, I've hacked together a simple 
workaround that fixes the problem and makes Literate Programming under 
nrepl possible once again. If there is some slick way this could be worked 
into nrepl.el's codebase that wouldn't break its existing behavior (as this 
does), I'd be excited to see it.

Here we go:

;; Patch result table rendering bug in ob-clojure (NREPL version)
(defun nrepl-send-request-sync (request)
  "Send a request to the backend synchronously (discouraged).
The result is a plist with keys :value, :stderr and :stdout."
  (with-current-buffer "*nrepl-connection*"
(setq nrepl-sync-response nil)
(nrepl-send-request request (nrepl-sync-request-handler 
(current-buffer)))
(while (not (plist-get nrepl-sync-response :done))
  (accept-process-output))
nrepl-sync-response))

(defun org-babel-execute:clojure (body params)
  "Execute a block of Clojure code with Babel."
  (let ((result-plist (nrepl-send-string-sync 
(org-babel-expand-body:clojure body params) nrepl-buffer-ns))
(result-type  (cdr (assoc :result-type params
(org-babel-script-escape
 (cond ((eq result-type 'value)  (plist-get result-plist :value))
   ((eq result-type 'output) (plist-get result-plist :value))
   (t(message "Unknown :results type!"))

Have fun!

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Re: Literate Programming in org-babel (ob-clojure.el) is broken under nrepl.el

[Tim King]

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:42 AM, lambdatronic  wrote:

> For those people (like myself) who do a lot of Literate Programming in
> Emacs using Clojure and org-babel, migrating to nrepl and nrepl.el is
> somewhat non-trivial. This is because the existing Clojure support in
> org-babel (ob-clojure.el) relies on slime and swank-clojure when running
> org-babel-execute-src-block (which redirects to org-babel-execute:clojure
> in ob-clojure.el).
>
> So clearly this is actually an issue for both nrepl.el and ob-clojure.el,
> not simply one or the other. All the same, I've hacked together a simple
> workaround that fixes the problem and makes Literate Programming under
> nrepl possible once again. If there is some slick way this could be worked
> into nrepl.el's codebase that wouldn't break its existing behavior (as this
> does), I'd be excited to see it.
>
>
Hi,
You may want to check out the below thread... there has been some recent
activity in this area and nrepl.el 0.1.4-preview should have better support
for org-babel.

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/nrepl-el/txLYH9tH6AU/discussion

Cheers,
Tim

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PBI: Datomic-based wiki

[Rich Morin]

I have a partly-baked idea about basing a wiki on Datomic.
This could allow users to view the entire wiki as of some
time in the past, compare versions of pages, etc.

If you find this interesting, please offer any comments or
suggestions you might have.

-r

 -- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdmRich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume r...@cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841

Software system design, development, and documentation


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Re: Plural dispatch

[Brent Millare]

I've made my own take of your plural dispatch system.

https://gist.github.com/3659663

I switched from using vars and a map for determining which pluralfn to use, 
to atoms and metadata tied to the pluralfn. My method reduces the amount of 
indirection and invocations. I originally tried to make a deftype version 
to store the data, but then I'd have to reimplement all of the microsyntax 
of of clojure.core/fn and expand out the args to all the arities, not fun.

Also I created defplural-body which doesn't specify the argument arity 
which you can use to avoid sequencing/unsequencing arguments for 
performance. I defined defplural in terms of defplural-body, which 
maintains compatibility with your examples.

My code has the advantage over some implementation details in multimethods 
in that redefining the pluralfn does not cause you to forget all the 
implementations since defplural-body checks for existing implementations. 
This, however, will require the user to run clear-implementations! if one 
does want to forget all the implementations.

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 6:48:36 AM UTC-4, Chris Ford wrote:
>
> I was watching David Nolan's talk about predicate 
> dispatch, 
> and he articulated something that I've found frustrating about multimethods 
> - the set of implementations is open, but the dispatch function is closed. 
> That means that if your dispatch value can't be computed in the same way 
> for all your data, you can't use multimethods.
>
> Predicate dispatch allows implementations to be registered with a test 
> that decides whether or not they are applicable, so it can do things that 
> multimethods cannot. For example, predicate dispatch would allow you to 
> write an open function that categorises integers as "prime", "perfect" or 
> some other category without baking them all into the dispatch function.
>
> In his talk, David speaks about the problem of overlap. 2 is both "prime" 
> and "even", for example. That got me thinking whether overlap is a bug or a 
> feature.
>
> I've hacked together a simple plural dispatch 
> system, 
> which allows the specification of a custom resolution function that can 
> decide whether to use one or all of the registered implementations. You can 
> use this system to implement both multimethods and predicate dispatch.
>
> What practical reason would you have for doing this? Random dispatch! 
> Can't decide which implementation to use? Now you don't have to!
>
> (defplural random (fn [implementations args] (-> implementations rand-nth 
> (apply args
> (defimplementation random #(+ % 100))
> (defimplementation random #(- % 100))
> (random 1)
>
> It could also be useful for gathering a set of all possible results, 
> quasi-AOP extension points, broadcasting events etc.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>

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Sobel edge detection library

[Zak Wilson]

I found a performance-optimized Sobel edge detection library on pastebin 
here: http://pastebin.com/auqEvM7J

There's no indication of who owns it or license terms. I'd like to use it. 
Does someone here know whose this is?

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Re: How to run Clooj?

[Lee Spector]

(It has been a while since the OP asked this question, but I didn't see an 
answer...)

You should be able to just download a "standalone" jar version of clooj, launch 
it as an application, and get to work editing and running code. No downloading 
of anything else or command-line calls to java are required.

 -Lee

On Aug 30, 2012, at 9:19 PM, gearss wrote:

> I am new to Clojure, I want to know how ot run the Clooj IDE? 
> If it needs to install Clojure to my computer, or every time I use   
> java -cp /path/to/the/clojure.jar clojure.main /path/to/your/code.clj
> to run my code?

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Re: Where is Clojure CLR ?

[Aaron]

I can personally attest to the quality of the ClojureCLR compiler using it 
on a daily basis for production code.  I have never had any problems with 
stability and I have found the code gen to be of quite high quality (via 
inspection with Reflector).

It is the build and development environment which is lagging a little 
behind.  For my work I've basically had to set up my own environment which 
I can say was a small price to pay for the productivity gains my team has 
seen.

Here's how my setup looks:  I'm using a custom build of the compiler (
https://github.com/aaronc/clojure-clr) which allows me to package .clj 
files into C# DLL's as embedded resources.  I also have a little prototype 
build tool that has some leiningen like functionality which allows me to 
easily start up a repl with the right paths referenced and also allows me 
to AOT compile and package multiple clojure files.  For development, I use 
emacs *inferior-lisp* quite comfortably.

I'm hoping that some of my changes to the compiler will be merged into the 
main branch soon and I also hope to share the rest of my custom tools on 
github as soon as I get a little more free time.

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edn

[Rich Hickey]

I've started to document a subset of Clojure's data format in an effort to get 
it more widely used as a data exchange format, e.g. as an alternative to JSON.

Please have a look:

https://github.com/richhickey/edn

Rich

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RE: edn

[Weber, Martin S]

which problem other than "NIH" is edn solving? - given it's a subset of 
clojure's data notation, it's not really native clojure either, so you gotta 
convert to/fro.
So: Why do we need another JSON? 

I'm sure you have answers to these questions, possibly answered them before, 
but definitely not answered them on the edn page.

Regards,
-Martin Weber

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Re: edn

[Rich Hickey]

On Sep 6, 2012, at 9:10 PM, Weber, Martin S wrote:

> which problem other than "NIH" is edn solving? - given it's a subset of 
> clojure's data notation, it's not really native clojure either, so you gotta 
> convert to/fro.

Of course it's native Clojure. Being a subset doesn't affect that. Clojure can 
read/print it without conversion.

> So: Why do we need another JSON? 
> 
> I'm sure you have answers to these questions, possibly answered them before, 
> but definitely not answered them on the edn page.
> 

Correct, there isn't yet a rationale on that page. Coming soon.

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RE: edn

[Weber, Martin S]

Rich:
> On Sep 6, 2012, at 9:10 PM, Weber, Martin S wrote:
> > which problem other than "NIH" is edn solving? - given it's a subset of 
> > clojure's data notation, it's not really native clojure either, so you 
> > gotta convert to/fro.
> Of course it's native Clojure. Being a subset doesn't affect that. Clojure 
> can read/print it without conversion.

Of course. For some data.But "subset" means there is clojure data that it 
cannot represent. 
Thus even though the data that it can represent will not have to be converted, 
the data it 
cannot, will have to be. To determine which data can or can not be represented, 
each piece 
of data must be tested for whether or not it lies in this subset. Which means 
that you cannot 
blindly write out any clojure data. Then you read it and will want to 
reconstruct your 
representation of that data that did not lie in the subset. The tagged literals 
might completely 
take care of that. But this is not the same level of nativeness than printing 
out an integer
and reading it back in.

If you're going to establish a new alternative, why not go for the whole cake. 
I assume this
question will be answered by the rationale.

> > So: Why do we need another JSON?
> >
> > I'm sure you have answers to these questions, possibly answered them 
> > before, but definitely not answered them on the edn page.
> >
> Correct, there isn't yet a rationale on that page. Coming soon.

Looking forward to that.

Regards,
-Martin

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RE: edn

[Softaddicts]

Here we moved away from yaml (json was in its infancy when we opted for yaml).
We now serialize values over the wire using Clojure expressions and nippy to 
get some 
compression and speed improvement.
Nippy falls back to the reader if it does not know how to compress a given 
value.

We plan to migrate to 1.4 to extend the reader with our custom literals. JSON 
is not extensible as far as I know.

The combination of nippy and reader custom literals look to me as a transparent
way to integrate some value representations specific to our business domain
without compromising on performance, extensibility and simplicity.

Am I missing something ?

Luc P.


> which problem other than "NIH" is edn solving? - given it's a subset of 
> clojure's data notation, it's not really native clojure either, so you gotta 
> convert to/fro.
> So: Why do we need another JSON? 
> 
> I'm sure you have answers to these questions, possibly answered them before, 
> but definitely not answered them on the edn page.
> 
> Regards,
> -Martin Weber
> 
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Re: edn

[Rich Hickey]

On Sep 6, 2012, at 9:52 PM, Weber, Martin S wrote:

> Rich:
>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 9:10 PM, Weber, Martin S wrote:
>>> which problem other than "NIH" is edn solving? - given it's a subset of 
>>> clojure's data notation, it's not really native clojure either, so you 
>>> gotta convert to/fro.
>> Of course it's native Clojure. Being a subset doesn't affect that. Clojure 
>> can read/print it without conversion.
> 
> Of course. For some data.But "subset" means there is clojure data that it 
> cannot represent. 
> Thus even though the data that it can represent will not have to be 
> converted, the data it 
> cannot, will have to be. To determine which data can or can not be 
> represented, each piece 
> of data must be tested for whether or not it lies in this subset. Which means 
> that you cannot 
> blindly write out any clojure data. Then you read it and will want to 
> reconstruct your 
> representation of that data that did not lie in the subset. The tagged 
> literals might completely 
> take care of that. But this is not the same level of nativeness than printing 
> out an integer
> and reading it back in.
> 
> If you're going to establish a new alternative, why not go for the whole 
> cake. I assume this
> question will be answered by the rationale.

There's no reason to try to cram Clojure code through edn. Clojure's format 
still stands, and is useful. However, there are many aspects of the reader that 
are specific to Clojure code and only complicate implementations that don't 
deal with Clojure code. #(), @, #=, syntax-quote etc.

Note that metadata will likely make it into edn.

Please don't use edn if you don't see the point. I'm not trying to convince you 
or anyone else.

Rich


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RE: edn

[Weber, Martin S]

> Please don't use edn if you don't see the point. I'm not trying to convince 
> you or anyone else.

I expect there to be a point, and thus also expect it to be communicatable. If 
there wasn't
a point, you wouldn't have chosen to use it in datomic, or create the page. I 
feel you haven't
communicated the point adequately yet, which is why I raised the questions I 
raised, also as
a sign to you that these questions do exist. As I wrote, I look forward to 
reading the rationale.
It's not "you" who needs to convince me (or anybody), it's edn that needs to. 
If it cannot convince
anyone, you're wasting your time. I don't expect you to waste your time. Thus, 
I expect edn
to be able to convince me, once it gets its point across. And I will refrain 
from further comments
until I've seen that "argument" edn makes for itself.

Regards,
-Martin

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Higher-order namespaces. Does it any make sense?

[Thomaz Leite]

Does it make any sense to have a higher-order namespace? For instance, I 
have a namespace with functions that manipulating data from an arbitrary 
source, and each function takes a "source" argument. On the mutable state 
side of things, I require this namespace but partially apply a given source 
to all its functions.

I recognize this would require all functions in the namespace to have the 
same first argument, and I probably have the wrong perspective. I come from 
an OO (Ruby) background and I'm trying to translate ideas (in this case 
dependency inversion).

-- Thomaz

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Re: Fund raiser for our projects

[Thomaz Leite]

Good point. I remember a SproutCore (JS framework) documentation project[1] 
in which one of the developers would teach a course to some selected 
people, and in exchange they would write a manual for the framework. In the 
end they didn't reach the sponsorship quota and the thing was cancelled.

[1] http://erichocean.com/book/index.html

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 8:02:20 PM UTC-3, Brian Marick wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:15 PM, Simone Mosciatti wrote: 
>
> > I would say raise money to help people improve their project 
> (documentation is a very important part that). 
>
> Many people who are good at writing code are not good at writing 
> documentation. Writing good explanations is hard, even if you have a knack 
> for it. It's not something J. Random Superprogrammer can just automatically 
> do by virtue of his enormous brain. 
>
> If money is to be spent, it would be better spent on people other than the 
> developers, people who *don't* know the project (because the troubles they 
> have learning it will inform their documentation), are quick studies, and 
> are skilled explainers. 
>
> - 
> Brian Marick, Artisanal Labrador 
> Contract programming in Ruby and Clojure 
> Occasional consulting on Agile 
> Writing /Functional Programming for the Object-Oriented Programmer/: 
> https://leanpub.com/fp-oo 
>
>
>

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Re: webnoir on openshift (Paas by RedHat), little guide

[Dick Davies]

Heroku was pretty painless (so long as your project/app is git based).

https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/clojure

On 3 September 2012 21:22, Simone Mosciatti  wrote:
> Yes, I know it is an issue, but I didn't really find any other PaaS (free to
> start) without such problem...
>
>
> On Monday, September 3, 2012 3:21:02 AM UTC+2, raould wrote:
>>
>> now if only they had a webinar that explained the utterly horrendous
>> leagaleze nightmare tolsoty-length terms and conditions.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 2:49 PM, John Holland  wrote:
>> > This is awesome!
>> >
>> > On Friday, August 31, 2012 4:31:38 PM UTC-4, Simone Mosciatti wrote:
>> >>
>> >> A little guide to use webnoir on openshift
>> >>
>> >> http://sisciatech.tumblr.com/post/29614188595/webnoir-in-openshift
>> >>
>> >> English is not my first language, if you find any mistake please let me
>> >> know.
>> >>
>> >> I hope it will be useful to somebody.
>> >>
>> >> Simone
>> >
>> > --
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Browser as an Evaluation Environment error

[goracio]

Hi
I try to follow this guide 
https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/The-REPL-and-Evaluation-Environments
and get an error 
No 'xpc' param provided to chid iframe

when loading http://localhost:9000/repl
and my clojurescript repl hangs 

Clojure 1.4.0
user=> (require '[cljs.repl :as repl])
nil
user=> (require '[cljs.repl.browser :as browser])
nil
user=> (def env (browser/repl-env))
#'user/env
user=> (repl/repl env)
"Type: " :cljs/quit " to quit"
ClojureScript:cljs.user> (+ 1 1)


what could be wrong with this ?

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Lightweight lib/way to strip html from text

[jamieorc]

Hey all, I'm looking for a lightweight way to strip html from a long String 
of text and leave just the text. I've come across JSoup, but at over 300kb 
for the lib, not quite lightweight. 

Suggestions?

Cheers,
Jamie

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Re: Expanding the Community Through Online Courses

[Jorge Fiallega]

This is a story from the trenches of your every day developer:
I am in platonic love with clojure. I have tried 2 or 3 times to pick up a 
book and go through it. The truth is that I always get distracted by 
something else and other priorities. I promised myself that before I ever 
learn Scala I would learn Clojure which I am so attracted to.
On Sept 18th  I will start the Scala course in Coursera, 'Functional 
Programming Principles in Scala'. What made me violate my promisse ?
1. It is a course with a structure, deadlines and a grade, which will make 
me finish it.
2. I know I will succeed in learning.
3. It is taught by Martin Odersky himself and that sells a lot, a lot, a 
lot.
4. It is free.

I think that is such a smart move by Martin Odersky and the Scala 
community, and I only wish Rich Hickey or Stuart Halloway would do the 
same. To showcase such a language in such a platform (Coursera or Udacity 
does not matter), reaching 30K - 100K developers in such a short period of 
time and having control on teaching them the right way, is creating a force 
that will work for you, from within the companies.

I am kindly asking Rich Hickey, Stuart Halloway or some other big name to 
create a course like this in Clojure.


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Re: Expanding the Community Through Online Courses

[Erlis Vidal]

Just to imagine what you are asking and unbelievable!! I want to be in
that course

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Jorge Fiallega wrote:

> This is a story from the trenches of your every day developer:
> I am in platonic love with clojure. I have tried 2 or 3 times to pick up a
> book and go through it. The truth is that I always get distracted by
> something else and other priorities. I promised myself that before I ever
> learn Scala I would learn Clojure which I am so attracted to.
> On Sept 18th  I will start the Scala course in Coursera, 'Functional
> Programming Principles in Scala'. What made me violate my promisse ?
> 1. It is a course with a structure, deadlines and a grade, which will make
> me finish it.
> 2. I know I will succeed in learning.
> 3. It is taught by Martin Odersky himself and that sells a lot, a lot, a
> lot.
> 4. It is free.
>
> I think that is such a smart move by Martin Odersky and the Scala
> community, and I only wish Rich Hickey or Stuart Halloway would do the
> same. To showcase such a language in such a platform (Coursera or Udacity
> does not matter), reaching 30K - 100K developers in such a short period of
> time and having control on teaching them the right way, is creating a force
> that will work for you, from within the companies.
>
> I am kindly asking Rich Hickey, Stuart Halloway or some other big name to
> create a course like this in Clojure.
>
>
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Re: Lightweight lib/way to strip html from text

[Michael Klishin]

2012/9/6 jamieorc 

> Hey all, I'm looking for a lightweight way to strip html from a long
> String of text and leave just the text. I've come across JSoup, but at over
> 300kb for the lib, not quite lightweight.
>
> Suggestions?
>

JSoup is good way to do it. If you need to identify the "main" part of a
Web page, Boilerplate
is a great library. Because Boilerplate is such a pain to get started with
(dependency and documentation wise), I highly suggest that you use
Crawlista for this:

http://github.com/michaelklishin/crawlista

300kb does not sound like a lot. JVM will only load what is really used.
-- 
MK

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Re: Lightweight lib/way to strip html from text

[Richard Lyman]

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:41 AM, jamieorc  wrote:
> Hey all, I'm looking for a lightweight way to strip html from a long String
> of text and leave just the text. I've come across JSoup, but at over 300kb
> for the lib, not quite lightweight.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>

When you say 'html' do you mean any html that a modern or even older
browser would accept, or is a very restricted set of very clean html?

-Rich

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Re: edn

[Stuart Halloway]

The rationale appears to be up now, and for my money, it is quite clear: JSON 
not powerful enough, Clojure does too much and is a burden for implementers.

That said, I won't complain if somebody happens to implement full Clojure 
serialization while implementing edn. ;-)

Stu

> I expect there to be a point, and thus also expect it to be communicatable. 
> If there wasn't
> a point, you wouldn't have chosen to use it in datomic, or create the page. I 
> feel you haven't
> communicated the point adequately yet, which is why I raised the questions I 
> raised, also as
> a sign to you that these questions do exist. As I wrote, I look forward to 
> reading the rationale.
> It's not "you" who needs to convince me (or anybody), it's edn that needs to. 
> If it cannot convince
> anyone, you're wasting your time. I don't expect you to waste your time. 
> Thus, I expect edn
> to be able to convince me, once it gets its point across. And I will refrain 
> from further comments
> until I've seen that "argument" edn makes for itself.
> 
> Regards,
> -Martin


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Re: Where is Clojure CLR ?

[Erlis Vidal]

Hi Aaron,

thanks for your response, I'll take a look at your set up and I'll give it
a try.

Have you tried vsClojure? It's a Visual Studio extension that will allow us
to write clojure from within the Visual Studio, very interesting...I was
trying to make it work and I was not able to compile...I'm sure I'm doing
something wrong, but I couldn't make it work. Some one knows if there is
something special to do to make this work? The github page doesn't have
much information about this https://github.com/vsClojure/vsClojure

Thanks,
Erlis

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Aaron  wrote:

> I can personally attest to the quality of the ClojureCLR compiler using it
> on a daily basis for production code.  I have never had any problems with
> stability and I have found the code gen to be of quite high quality (via
> inspection with Reflector).
>
> It is the build and development environment which is lagging a little
> behind.  For my work I've basically had to set up my own environment which
> I can say was a small price to pay for the productivity gains my team has
> seen.
>
> Here's how my setup looks:  I'm using a custom build of the compiler (
> https://github.com/aaronc/clojure-clr) which allows me to package .clj
> files into C# DLL's as embedded resources.  I also have a little prototype
> build tool that has some leiningen like functionality which allows me to
> easily start up a repl with the right paths referenced and also allows me
> to AOT compile and package multiple clojure files.  For development, I use
> emacs *inferior-lisp* quite comfortably.
>
> I'm hoping that some of my changes to the compiler will be merged into the
> main branch soon and I also hope to share the rest of my custom tools on
> github as soon as I get a little more free time.
>
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Re: Where is Clojure CLR ?

[Aaron Craelius]

I tried it a while back and couldn't get it working, but I have since heard
that it was updated.  I wouldn't be the one to ask though.  In my case, I
prefer Emacs for editing lisp and it is much lighter on system resources
than Visual Studio.

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Erlis Vidal  wrote:

> Hi Aaron,
>
> thanks for your response, I'll take a look at your set up and I'll give it
> a try.
>
> Have you tried vsClojure? It's a Visual Studio extension that will allow
> us to write clojure from within the Visual Studio, very interesting...I was
> trying to make it work and I was not able to compile...I'm sure I'm doing
> something wrong, but I couldn't make it work. Some one knows if there is
> something special to do to make this work? The github page doesn't have
> much information about this https://github.com/vsClojure/vsClojure
>
> Thanks,
> Erlis
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Aaron  wrote:
>
>> I can personally attest to the quality of the ClojureCLR compiler using
>> it on a daily basis for production code.  I have never had any problems
>> with stability and I have found the code gen to be of quite high quality
>> (via inspection with Reflector).
>>
>> It is the build and development environment which is lagging a little
>> behind.  For my work I've basically had to set up my own environment which
>> I can say was a small price to pay for the productivity gains my team has
>> seen.
>>
>> Here's how my setup looks:  I'm using a custom build of the compiler (
>> https://github.com/aaronc/clojure-clr) which allows me to package .clj
>> files into C# DLL's as embedded resources.  I also have a little prototype
>> build tool that has some leiningen like functionality which allows me to
>> easily start up a repl with the right paths referenced and also allows me
>> to AOT compile and package multiple clojure files.  For development, I use
>> emacs *inferior-lisp* quite comfortably.
>>
>> I'm hoping that some of my changes to the compiler will be merged into
>> the main branch soon and I also hope to share the rest of my custom tools
>> on github as soon as I get a little more free time.
>>
>> --
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RE: edn

[Weber, Martin S]

Stu:
> The rationale appears to be up now, and for my money, it is quite clear: JSON 
> not powerful enough, Clojure does too much and is a burden for implementers.
> That said, I won't complain if somebody happens to implement full Clojure 
> serialization while implementing edn. ;-)

The question that's left for me is: why vectors and lists? I mean, from a data 
format perspective, and a non-clojure implementor, I'm not sure the distinction 
makes sense. After all for the _data format_, in its serialized form, the 
vector will not be a random access structure. It has to be deserialized, and 
access to an element will have linear time complexity. Again, I understand its 
relevance from the clojure perspective. Is this just "too important" for edn's 
current "implementor", clojure ?

Regards,
-Martin

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Re: edn

[Justin Kramer]

Looks great. What mime type should be used? "application/edn"?

Justin

On Thursday, September 6, 2012 9:01:15 PM UTC-4, Rich Hickey wrote:
>
> I've started to document a subset of Clojure's data format in an effort to 
> get it more widely used as a data exchange format, e.g. as an alternative 
> to JSON. 
>
> Please have a look: 
>
> https://github.com/richhickey/edn 
>
> Rich 
>
>

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Re: edn

[David Nolen]

On Thursday, September 6, 2012, Rich Hickey wrote:

> I've started to document a subset of Clojure's data format in an effort to
> get it more widely used as a data exchange format, e.g. as an alternative
> to JSON.
>
> Please have a look:
>
> https://github.com/richhickey/edn
>
> Rich


So will colons become whitespace in maps so the JSON using hordes have an
easy upgrade path? ;)

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Re: edn

[Daniel Pittman]

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Rich Hickey  wrote:

> I've started to document a subset of Clojure's data format in an effort to 
> get it more widely used as a data exchange format, e.g. as an alternative to 
> JSON.
>
> Please have a look:
> https://github.com/richhickey/edn

The current specification has two problems that have bitten us on
other projects (and with other formats): it has no specified encoding
for strings, and it has no native mechanism for binary data.  It would
be awesome if you could consider both in the format.

Strings without encoding are an interoperability headache, even if
they allow binary data - someone will forget to tag the data, or will
just throw whatever random 8-bit encoding in, and problems arise.

Strings with a specific encoding (like JSON and UTF-8) are great, but
they can't carry binary, so something specific is needed - and
hopefully something better than "base64 into the string".

-- 
Daniel Pittman
♲ Made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons

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Re: edn

[Richard Lyman]

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Rich Hickey  wrote:
> I've started to document a subset of Clojure's data format in an effort to 
> get it more widely used as a data exchange format, e.g. as an alternative to 
> JSON.
>
> Please have a look:
>
> https://github.com/richhickey/edn
>
> Rich
>

Thanks for sharing!

I've added a link on the wiki implementations page to an initial stab
at an Amotoen grammar for edn (
https://github.com/richhickey/edn/wiki/Implementations )

I'm very interested in any test data that I can code against. While
I'll be coming up with my own examples, since edn is so
straightforward, it could help to have a 'canonical' collection of
test data.

-Rich

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Does moustache work with latest ring and clojure ?

[Murtaza Husain]

Hi,

Moustache seems to be a great library and I would like to use it for my 
next project (No offense to compojure :) ) . However it still lists clojure 
1.1 and ring 0.2 as its dependencies (on clojars). Does moustache work with 
clojure 1.4 and ring 1.1.5 ? Also is it still being maintained ?

Thanks,
Murtaza

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Re: Expanding the Community Through Online Courses

[Mayank Jain]

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Jorge Fiallega wrote:

>
> I am kindly asking Rich Hickey, Stuart Halloway or some other big name to
> create a course like this in Clojure.
>
>
That would be great! :)

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