Re: Looking for RX01/02 rack slides

[Al Kossow]

On 10/6/15 11:14 AM, Ben Sinclair wrote:

I actually need some slides for my RL02... Are these the same type?


Nope. DIGITAL designed their own chassis slides after the 11/34

11/44, RLxx and everything after were custom.

Symbolics MCD-405 tape drive / Georgens Industries

[Al Kossow]

Does anyone have a loose 3M/Georgens MCD-405 tape drive they could take board 
pictures
and firmware dumps from, or any of the other MCD-40 series tape drives? I'm 
trying to
figure out how similar it is to the one in the Apple 40mb tape drive.

I was asked about recovering some tapes from a Supermac 40mb tape/disk scsi 
box, and I
am trying to figure out what tape drive I might need to do it. It appears it is 
Gammamat
format, which would work with the Apple drives, and I wanted to compare the 
firmware from
a non-Apple, so I started looking around for SCSI Gammamat drives. I also 
thought this
would be useful knowledge for anyone trying to dump Symbolics XL-Series DC2040 
tapes.

One interesting thing mentioned in the Amiga BTNTape tape handler was they 
mention it was
possible on some MCD series drives to format a blank DC2000 tape. They mention 
formatting
with 2:1 interleave.

Sadly, there were also people who said there was a tech manual available from 
Georgens on
the series, but they didn't want to spend $50 for it. Georgens Industries was 
in San Diego
and there still a few traces of them, but they are long gone at their last adr. 
I see that
Chuck mentioned they were into the maintenance biz, Georgens was involved with 
DEI down there
looking at his patents, and bought 3M's streamer tape line.

Places like Weird Stuff have piles of the DC2000 floppy tape drives, need to do 
more digging
to see if there are any SCSI ones around.

Then, I have to redo the pinch roller. All the Apple tape drives have been dead 
for over ten
years with rollers turned to orange goo.

Re: MFM Emulator

[Al Kossow]

On 10/8/15 10:07 AM, Ian Finder wrote:


If Al decides these sorts of images belong on bitsavers, I'll go on a full-on 
imaging spree and work to improve my information hygiene.



yes, that is the plan. I received one this week as well that I was going to put 
into an 1186 to make some Koto/Lyric/Medley fresh system images.

Re: MFM Emulator

[Al Kossow]

On 10/8/15 11:18 AM, Al Kossow wrote:

On 10/8/15 10:07 AM, Ian Finder wrote:


If Al decides these sorts of images belong on bitsavers, I'll go on a full-on 
imaging spree and work to improve my information hygiene.



yes, that is the plan. I received one this week as well that I was going to put 
into an 1186 to make some Koto/Lyric/Medley fresh system images.



I also see there's a computer museum coming to Capitol Hill
https://twitter.com/retrocompsea

Re: MFM Emulator

[Al Kossow]

On 10/8/15 11:38 AM, Ian Finder wrote:


We do not intend to overlap with a big, professional museum like CHM or LCM. 
Rather think of this as a kind of a maker-space for old systems; There is a lot 
of interest in Seattle- largely people from the software industry- who would 
love to code something on a real PDP 11, Symbolics or a Xerox or a 3B2 / BLIT, 
but aren't equipped to handle care and feeding of these sorts of machines.



Good. There have been false starts for something similar down here for at least 
five years

The problem is real estate has become insanely expensive here, so it is tough 
to get traction.

I have a good friend that lived on CH in the 90's, and it sounds like things 
are getting bad up there
too.

Re: Symbolics MCD-405 tape drive / Georgens Industries

[Al Kossow]

On 10/8/15 11:15 AM, Al Kossow wrote:

Does anyone have a loose 3M/Georgens MCD-405 tape drive they could take board 
pictures
and firmware dumps from, or any of the other MCD-40 series tape drives? I'm 
trying to
figure out how similar it is to the one in the Apple 40mb tape drive.



looks like Brad went down this rabbit hole 10 years ago

List:   classiccmp
Subject:QIC-100 SCSI tape drive?
From:   Brad Parker 
Date:   2004-03-29 15:01:57
Message-ID: 200403291501.i2TF1vX09756 () mwave ! heeltoe ! com
[Download message RAW]


Anyone have a QIC-100 SCSI tape drive drive?  Or know where to get one?

Seems like there was a brief window when such a thing existed, but I
can't seem to find any evidence on the web.  I must be searching for the
wrong thing.  I probably need a specific product.

I've got a qic-150 drive (the large 4x6x.5" carts).  I need a qic-100 drive.

(I suspect it's the same size cart as a TU-58.  I don't plan to use it to
read TU-58's, but who knows, maybe it will read them)

---

Other Google searches turned up articles in InfoWorld saying the format was
developed by Tallgrass, which explains the ASIC with their name on in inside the
3M/Apple tape mechanism I have pictures of on bitsavers/3M and that Gammamat is 
QIC-100

At least the on-tape format is documented in the QIC spec.

Re: Burroughs Distribution Box

[Al Kossow]

On 10/8/15 4:22 PM, Kyle Owen wrote:

Any idea what this might go to? Someone suggested a B1700, but wasn't
exactly sure.



probably, since it was made in Goleta.

Re: Symbolics MCD-405 tape drive / Georgens Industries

[Al Kossow]

On 10/9/15 9:32 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:



On 10/8/15 3:53 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Al Kossow mailto:a...@bitsavers.org>> wrote:

Does anyone have a loose 3M/Georgens MCD-405 tape drive they could
take board pictures
and firmware dumps from, or any of the other MCD-40 series tape
drives? I'm trying to
figure out how similar it is to the one in the Apple 40mb tape drive.


I believe I have one in my XL1200, I will check tonight.

- Josh


So, I'm a day late, but here are some pictures:

http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/3m/

If this is the right drive, and if you need the EPROM dumped, let me know and 
I'll take care of it this weekend.

- Josh



It would be good to get the firmware dumped
...hmmm just looked at the pics I have of the Apple drive and the firmware part 
number is identical!

Now that I think about it, someone on a lisp list from SRI said they USED an 
Apple tape drive on an XL!

I'm sure that is good news for anyone trying to read Symbolics tapes. The Apple 
drives are easier to find
but you'll have to fix the pinch roller. It looks like the roller on your drive 
is made from a different
material.

Re: blog entry

[Al Kossow]

On 10/11/15 6:13 PM, Tony wrote:

I also included about 30 pictures.


Any message with attachments is bounced on this mailing list.

Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard

[Al Kossow]

On 10/14/15 3:55 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:


I have one sitting in a drawer at home, I can crack it open tonight if
anyone's curious what's inside ;).



Did that a while ago, and they are passive. They are designed to work with
a PA-RISC workstation that can deal with either kind of keyboard on the same
connector

Re: Oddball floppies for trade - 8", HS (outer edge), weird cutout

[Al Kossow]

On 10/18/15 6:00 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:


it's truly amazing that Memorex still exists--as a brand of Imation.



Thank Ella Fitzgerald

"Is it live, or is it Memorex"

http://www.totalmedia.com/content/trivia-and-tips/maxells-chair-man-hell-blow-you-away-part-1.html

Re: Has anyone hear of the Computer History Archives Project?

[Al Kossow]

On 10/20/15 11:35 AM, Christian Liendo wrote:

I found a channel that's about a Month old, but no real information as to who 
they are.


Computer History Archives
Educational Vintage Computer Films



I think it is a guy in Sacramento. I remember buying a CD of the 1050 film off 
ebay
years ago and I think that was what he was going by then.

Re: Common Maxtor MFM drive failure mode -- any ideas?

[Al Kossow]

On 10/23/15 12:04 AM, Josh Dersch wrote:


The 2190 does not, and it fails in precisely the same way I've personally seen 
three or four other Maxtor drives of the same era fail: It spins up fine, but 
when it goes to load the heads, it sounds
like the voice coil positioner for the heads is "screaming" -- it emits a 
high-pitched, quite loud whine/buzz which persists until you power the drive down.  The 
drive is unresponsive during this time.



Sounds like a failure of the positioner servo. It is on a separate platter.

It should be possible to build something to open the servo loop and position 
the heads
externally. One of those projects that I would like to get to some day. I have 
about 50
Maxtor ESDI drives from Apollo's build system that I REALLY want to get the 
data off of
and I suspect there will be the same sort of problem with them.

Re: Common Maxtor MFM drive failure mode -- any ideas?

[Al Kossow]

On 10/23/15 1:33 AM, Joseph Lang wrote:

the scream is the stepper motor trying to move with only one phase working. 
(Also a common drive failure.)


Maxtor drives have a very distinctive (and loud) recal sound.

Re: Common Maxtor MFM drive failure mode -- any ideas?

[Al Kossow]

On 10/23/15 12:39 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:

I don't
suppose anyone has a service manual for these things so I know what stuff
to probe?  (Nothing on Bitsavers and a casual Google search turns up
nothing of interest.)



Service manuals/schematics/ASIC info is EXTREMELY difficult to get for anything 
beyond
the stepper motor era. What is on bitsavers are the results of my searching for
20+ years, and that isn't much. I've been digging into early 90's DC2000 QIC 
drives over the
past couple weeks, and hw docs for them are just as difficult to find.

Re: Common Maxtor MFM drive failure mode -- any ideas?

[Al Kossow]

On 10/24/15 10:15 AM, Josh Dersch wrote:

there are a few ICs surface-mounted to the flat ribbon
cable running to the head assembly.


Those are the head preamps. You should be able to scope out if there is 
anything coming out of them.

Re: Common Maxtor MFM drive failure mode -- any ideas?

[Al Kossow]

On 10/24/15 11:40 AM, tony duell wrote:


Most likely those ICs are head switch/preamp devices and the servo head
preamplifier. They are very likely to be custom.



Silicon Systems was a common supplier in the 80s to mid-90s, which is why their
Storage Products data books have been scanned.

Re: Mac IIsi - SoG?

[Al Kossow]

On 10/27/15 4:42 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:

I don't know if
it's just some lowly service processor


nope, just the 68030.

Re: Mac IIsi - SoG?

[Al Kossow]

On 10/26/15 8:30 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:


I've got a system here which makes encouraging startup noises, but isn't
outputting any video to a VGA screen (adapter cable OK with my other Macs).



The si and cx/ci are old enough that it doesn't support VGA timing.

Re: Mac IIsi - SoG?

[Al Kossow]

On 10/27/15 7:10 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:

On 10/27/2015 08:36 PM, Al Kossow wrote:



On 10/26/15 8:30 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:


I've got a system here which makes encouraging startup noises, but isn't
outputting any video to a VGA screen (adapter cable OK with my other Macs).



The si and cx/ci are old enough that it doesn't support VGA timing.


Hmm, so strapping pin 7 to pin 10 on the video connector isn't enough to kick 
it into 640x480 mode like it is with various other Apple hardware?

For the 512x384 mode it's certainly not within VGA spec, but I know the system 
is capable of 640x480, which I'm assuming should be. I'm currently wondering if 
it's outputting composite sync, though -
everything I'd seen suggested it was either SoG or separate h/vsync, but maybe 
that's wrong and it's neither.

cheers

J.





here is a mirror of the tech note that describes the pinouts and sense codes

https://web.archive.org/web/20040222182709/http://developer.apple.com/technotes/hw/hw_30.html

The RBV ASIC in the SI only knows about the original 8 sense codes.

Re: Front Panels - Thoughts

[Al Kossow]

On 10/30/15 11:32 PM, rod wrote:


What about a front panel with lights and switches for systems
that never had one and could have done with one?
Which computer would you nominate?



Motorola 68030

Re: Front Panels - Thoughts

[Al Kossow]

On 10/30/15 11:32 PM, rod wrote:


Which computer would you nominate?


here is the weirdest DEC panel I have ever come across

http://bitsavers.org/mysteries/mysteryPanel_Nov74.jpg

that I spotted in a lot of DEC panels that were on display at CHM in 2001


It is labeled "Special Order PDP/15 Order 11/20/74 s/s" but when Bob Supnik
and I talked about it, we concluded it was for a Xerox Signa architecture 
machine
in PDP 11/20 colors (magenta and wild rose)

Re: youtube video of a runnning XDS Sigma mainframe with lots of nice peripherals

[Al Kossow]

On 11/2/15 2:15 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:


Not just running condition.  100,000 pounds of gear, including the 9, 6, and a
7 that had been retired in the 90s, spares for all of them, the 8 running disk
drives and 4 running tape drives, along with about 20 more disk drives (the
older 50MB hydraulic units) from the 7.  Five 24' trucks, driven by Stan and his
brothers from Flagstaff to Seattle.



I am glad that LCM was able to save these systems.
If I were king, there would be a Sigma running where the 1401 is at CHM.

sort by date back in google groups searches

[Al Kossow]

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/classiccmp|sort:date

for example

Re: VCF-Berlin, 2015

[Al Kossow]

are? They look to be PDP-10 {something}, given what appear to be two rows of
36 lights on the bottom (although they are hard to see clearly), but I
couldn't find a panel like that in my PDP-10 manual.




I don't have time to go down this rathole right now.
If you are sure they are off a 10, check the peripheral controller manuals on
bitsavers under pdp10/periph

Re: VCF-Berlin, 2015

[Al Kossow]

On 11/5/15 4:51 AM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:


The tags say
DEC PDP-10 - tape controller, 1973
retrocmp.com, c-c-g.de



They are both disk controller panels.
The one marked tape controller has "sector word count"
in the upper right

Re: VCF-Berlin, 2015

[Al Kossow]

On 11/5/15 8:46 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

 > now that I have the better picture, let me see what I can turn up.

Got it! It's the _bottom_ indicator panel from an RP15 disk controller - from
a PDP-15. I think that's the only DEC controller I've ever seen with _two_
indictor panels on it!

And no, the one in the back is not the other RP15 indicator panel; it really
is an RP11.

Noel



sounds like it was a nicely configured PDP-15. Too bad only the panels seem to 
exist

Re: IBM System/32 available

[Al Kossow]

On 11/5/15 2:47 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote:

A new user on the Vintage Computer Forums is posting about what appears to be 
this machine in random, unrelated threads. In one of them, he shared a 
System/32 picture which came from the Corestore site. He doesn't have enough 
posts yet to enable the private message feature, so I don't know how to contact 
him. His profile says he's in Riverside, CA, which happens to be where I live. 
I don't have room or spare cash for this computer at this time, but I'd be 
happy to go look at it for anybody who's interested in it (assuming I find a 
way to contact the seller).

The posting in random threads with somebody else's picture looks a bit hinky, 
but maybe it's just somebody who isn't familiar with Internet forum etiquette. 
If this seller and machine are for real, and it's really located in Riverside, 
then I can look at the machine and report what I see.



http://www.angelectronics.org/

Mike should be able to confirm it

Re: IBM System/32 available

[Al Kossow]

On 11/5/15 3:19 PM, Mike Ross wrote:

That's the guy I've been talking to. Pissed he's stealing pics from my
site. Can someone post the URL or thread where he's using them?



http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?36875-Molecular-Computers-board/page3

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?48531-DG-Nova/page2

Re: WD9000 Pascal microengine schematics available

[Al Kossow]

On 11/5/15 10:40 AM, Jos Dreesen wrote:


And then around 100 / 150 8" floppies to image


when it rains it pours..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/311470113149

Eric Smith and I have been looking for these for a long time.
They are BASF floppies, though.

Re: WD9000 Pascal microengine schematics available

[Al Kossow]

On 11/5/15 3:55 PM, Al Kossow wrote:

On 11/5/15 10:40 AM, Jos Dreesen wrote:


And then around 100 / 150 8" floppies to image


when it rains it pours..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/311470113149

Eric Smith and I have been looking for these for a long time.
They are BASF floppies, though.





and about a month ago a friend had the instruction chip with the decode PLA 
decapped and photographed.

Re: WD9000 Pascal microengine schematics available

[Al Kossow]

On 11/5/15 9:06 PM, Jos Dreesen wrote:


As are mine... ( some 3M and CDC disk also part of the haul )
Does that mean they will need baking ?



Yes. I was going to try what I use on one, white board cleaner.
Chuck has not had good luck with BASF recovery.

Re: WTB: Unix/Solaris Adobe FrameMaker 8

[Al Kossow]

On 11/7/15 4:45 PM, Kevin Parker wrote:


Try contacting Weird Stuff


Most of the boxed software goes out on the floor or in the 'free' box outside
the store.

Lyle might see it when it comes in, though generally they don't sort
used software or books, they just give it to retail.

Re: WD9000 Pascal microengine schematics available

[Al Kossow]

On 11/9/15 6:04 AM, Brad Parker wrote:


I was wondering about software.  Is anyone planning to turn those schematics 
into verilog?



Help would be nice reverse-engineering the chipset.

I also picked up some of the Russian versions of the instruction decode chip.

Re: youtube video of a runnning XDS Sigma mainframe with lots of nice peripherals

[Al Kossow]

On 11/9/15 6:14 AM, Brad Parker wrote:


I'll never forget the community memory at Project One.


We have the tape backups along with their paper archives at CHM thanks to Lee F.
I'm hoping to get to archiving the cartridge tapes at some point. They aren't
in normal QIC format.

Re: IBM System/32 available

[Al Kossow]

On 11/9/15 11:46 AM, Mark J. Blair wrote:

I got a reply from the seller of this system, and I'll see if I can go take a 
look at it today or tomorrow.


And so far, it's still priceless.

Re: PDP 8E Panel Paint Chipping - How to seal edges

[Al Kossow]

On 11/9/15 3:04 PM, rod wrote:


  2.  Screen Print first holes second.



That was clearly the case on the panel that I sent scans of to you
and I mentioned that they had milled off some of the white lines around
the cutouts for the paddle switches.

Re: WD9000 Pascal microengine schematics available

[Al Kossow]

On 11/10/15 2:00 AM, GerardCJAT wrote:

Help would be nice reverse-engineering the chipset.



I also picked up some of the Russian versions of the >instruction decode chip.


Any idea how one can do it ???



The same way the other NMOS devices like the 6502 have been done. Mapping the 
photos to polygons and tracing
out the layout.

My problem is I've not done it before. I also have the logic-analyzer-on-a-chip 
out of the 165xx series shot but
not analyzed.

http://siliconpr0n.org/archive/doku.php?id=mcmaster:hp:hp-c5_1fi1-0001

Re: MAINDEC-11-DZQKC-E-D listing posted (Re: Deciphering PDP-11/05 ZQKC (Instruction Exerciser) MAINDEC failures...)

[Al Kossow]

On 11/10/15 2:10 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:


A PDF is there as well as a zip file containing the original .tif files
as Al Kossow prefers for submissions.  (Al:  Hint, Hint  ;) ).



Thanks! Just send me an email as you add things, and I will pick them up.

Re: WD9000 Pascal microengine schematics available

[Al Kossow]

On 11/10/15 3:47 PM, Brad Parker wrote:

but what is special about the HP 165xx chip which Al referenced?


Variations of that ASIC are the core of HP's logic logic analyzers for a LONG 
time
(at least while they were using 68K processors).

One of my back burner projects has been to understand how they worked as an 
embedded
system. Sadly, I've heard the person who designed it passed away this past year.

One of the things that made HP magical in the 70's and 80's was how advanced 
their ASIC
capabilites were compared to the competition.

Re: WD9000 Pascal microengine schematics available

[Al Kossow]

On 11/10/15 3:56 PM, Brad Parker wrote:

fyi:  from the 6502 faq:

/* How do you turn bitmaps into polygons?/
We draw them in our custom Python app.  We spent about two months looking at 
automatic vectorization and using the bitmaps to create polygon fragments, but 
neither of these was better than just
sitting down and clicking out the polygons.  It's almost essential to have our 
own vector drawing app, so we can control snapping, do fancy copy-paste, get 
good vector data, and greatly speed up the
work.




/* How did automatic vectorization fail?/
It was more work to clean up the results of automatic vectorization than to do 
clean work in the first place.  Damage, dirt, and ambiguous or falsely detected 
features in the chip die shots create
problems.  We also rely on finding and modelingburied contacts 
like they would appear in the original 
fabrication masks, not like they appear in silicon.  This is
very difficult, if not impossible, to do automatically.

I'm not surprised by this.  So in the end, a human brain figured out where the polygons 
are.  It might be a fun "internet distributed" project to farm out sections to 
lots of people and then assemble
the results...

-brad



you may want to check out
https://siliconpr0n.org/archive/doku.php?id=motorola:68000

Re: DECtape reliability?

[Al Kossow]

On 11/12/15 7:27 AM, Jon Elson wrote:


LINCtape is essentially identical to DECtape.  I think the directory
format is different, but I think the block format is the same.  I think
the tapes are wound in reverse order and the order of increasing block
numbers is reversed.



Actually the block format is different. "Obverse Compliment" encoding 
was created for DECtape. LINCtape blocks aren't bidirectional.


The actual spec for the 3M tape can be found at
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/dectape/3M_DECtape_Spec_nov66.pdf
The protective overlay is .04 mils.

Re: x86/DOS system backup via rs232?

[Al Kossow]

On 11/12/15 4:00 PM, Mouse wrote:


However, I _think_ some old Sun and MicroVAX machines play in that
space; I've seen Qbus hardware that talks to drives with card-edge
connectors and I've seen SCSI-to-cardedge interfaces on Suns of
Sun-3/260 vintage.  I don't know the details of ST506, ESDI, and all
that, but it strikes me as at least _possible_ that something in that
line might be able to help.



Not really. Sun used Adaptec 4000's for MFM and Emulex MD21 for ESDI
DEC did its own thing, Emulex sold into that space with MFM/ESDI but
with their own formats.

Dave G's MFM emulator could read it, but just finding a serial block
transfer program that can cope with bad sectors would probably be easiest.
It wouldn't even be that difficult to write one if the system still knows
about the disk geometry in the CMOS RAM and you can use BIOS calls.

Re: To Al Kossow at bitsavers

[Al Kossow]

On 11/14/15 5:46 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:


Another thing that I don't know is if XX2247 would possibly be required to pay 
a fee to HP for each license sold. It might be, which would make it hard to 
even give licenses for binary distributions
tricky.



That is the crux of the problem. While XX2247 bought the rights from Mentec as 
the corporation was dissolving, no one in Mentec actually HAD a copy
of the original agreement so the current owner doesn't know what the terms were. 
Trying to chase back HP->Compaq->DEC has essentially become impossible
because the people who would have known aren't with the company any more, and 
HP doesn't want to invest any time trying to find the agreement. That was
as far as I got working with HP's archivist, who has been incredibly helpful 
negotiating non-commercial releases of software for the HP-developed product
lines and for Apollo. As Johnny said, someone on the inside who knows where to 
look would have to deal with this.

11/70 front panel colors

[Al Kossow]

On 11/15/15 9:43 AM, rod wrote:


Right now back to 11/70 front panels. Anybody know what the colours are called?


Magenta and Wild Rose

Re: Could someone make the list do the [cctalk] thing in the subject line?

[Al Kossow]

On 11/17/15 7:54 AM, et...@757.org wrote:

Hello,

   By any chance could someone configure the mailing list to add [cctalk] or 
[cc] or [cct] into the beginning of the subject line?


If you do this, please do the same for cctech, and make sure messages go out 
from the correct source on cross-posted messages
(ie. "[cctalk] foo" on cctech), so I can simplify my dups filters.

Re: Could someone make the list do the [cctalk] thing in the subject line?

[Al Kossow]

On 11/17/15 11:46 AM, Eric Christopherson wrote:


What gets duplicated? Are you subscribed to both -talk and -tech at one
time?



Yes, they were two separate lists at one point, then someone decided to start
forwarding messages between the two, and other people started posting replies
to the wrong list. All of the replies to the post about the collection being
given away was from cctalk, but the actual message was posted on cctech. You
can't effectively filter out the crap from the other list because the headers
being sent through aren't always right. I lost the original collection msg
because my filter thought it had been sent from cctalk and forwarded to cctech.

There was a discussion about getting rid of one or the other list.
I wish someone would just DO IT.

Re: Front Panel Orders - Special Update

[Al Kossow]

On 11/20/15 1:44 AM, rod wrote:


What it reveals was that they silk screened the panel first then routed
or milled out


yes, and I posted that a week ago here when I sent you the scans of one
of my panels.

Re: Front Panel Orders - Special Update

[Al Kossow]

On 11/20/15 8:04 AM, rod wrote:


  So the more sets of measurements I get the better.



OK, will check the panels I have and send the pn/demensions to you

An interesting delema I noticed is the milling cut off some of the
vertical white lines around the paddle switches. So should the repro
do the same, if so, where, since the milling moves relative to the
silk screen

Re: Emulation

[Al Kossow]

On 11/21/15 7:16 AM, wulfman wrote:


I have been collecting roms for years for repair of my huge collection
of game board
but this is the first time i have seen the retro computers in the rom sets.



There were two independent projects, MAME and MESS. MESS was merged with MAME
recently to make core code merges easier. Since most of the non-encrypted arcade
games have been simulated, more and more effort is going into preserving pretty
much anything the developers are interested in that has a CPU. A lot of work has
been going on improving 68K Macintosh and IBM PC simulators. A lot of the 
public-facing
discussions go on at 
http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=1&page=1

--al (mamedev since the mid-90's)

Re: 1980s/1990s 68k C cross (and not so cross) compilers

[Al Kossow]

On 11/21/15 8:09 AM, Mark Green wrote:


Does anyone know which 68000 compilers were available in 1993, and which could 
produce ROM code? Or a few?



In the embedded space, Alcyon and Green Hills
Metrowerks maybe. I'm more familiar with their CodeWarrior Mac product. They 
were bought out by Motorola.

Re: HP 7914

[Al Kossow]

On 11/20/15 7:16 PM, Jay West wrote:

I have a board from a HP 7914 disc drive (07914-60001). No clue how I
obtained it, as I've never owned a 7914 (but did have a hard luck case 7912,
which is long gone). In any case... free for shipping if anyone wants it.

J




There are a bunch of 7912/4 boards on eBay right now. I picked up one that had 
a CPU to
dump the firmware since I've never seen one. I'm guessing the guy had a bunch 
and scrapped
them for the gold.

Re: Looking for an IBM manual PDF

[Al Kossow]

On 11/21/15 1:38 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:


Unfortunately, downloading the DjVu file does nothing


and Firefox reports it as a web forgery.

If someone can find real djvu files for those manuals, I will
convert them to pdf and put them on bitsavers.

Any site that requires you to start java and use their djvu
web applet is concentrated evil.

Re: 1980s/1990s 68k C cross (and not so cross) compilers

[Al Kossow]

On 11/21/15 2:54 AM, Philip Pemberton wrote:


Which is one instruction longer... so it's not Aztec.



Alcyon was popular.

Re: 1980s/1990s 68k C cross (and not so cross) compilers

[Al Kossow]

On 11/21/15 9:29 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:


Let's not forget the VersaDOS/EXORmacs platforms.  That's where I did my 80's 
68K work.



Arg, totally forgot to include the HP 64000 and Tek 8560 development systems 
though I'm
blanking right now on if they did their own or sold third-party C compilers.

Re: 1980s/1990s 68k C cross (and not so cross) compilers

[Al Kossow]

On 11/21/15 10:44 AM, Paul Koning wrote:


Arg, totally forgot to include the HP 64000 and Tek 8560 development systems 
though I'm
blanking right now on if they did their own or sold third-party C compilers.


Third party, I believe.  I used one of those for a 68040 (developing the 
DECbridge 900).  I think the compiler was Green Hills.  GCC was around, I 
think, but that isn't the one we used as far as I remember.

paul



It would have been impossible to use GCC on the 8560, it was a V7 PDP-11 
Unix. The 64000 processor is pretty much the same as the HP 9845.

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

[Al Kossow]

On 11/23/15 11:46 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:


Your native interface have the additional problem that in addition to requiring 
people to write their own device driver for any OS usage, it will be rather 
difficult to get booting from it, since that
require special support.



There is no reason you can't have two simulated controllers, one small enough 
and early enough to boot a range of operating systems (RL02?), then
another which exports a simple block-level interface which would be simple 
enough to easily write drivers against.

RL02 is also interesting because there was a 22 bit version for qbus.

I'm trying to remember if DSD had extended block length or partioning for their 
controllers.

Re: 1980s/1990s 68k C cross (and not so cross) compilers

[Al Kossow]

On 11/25/15 8:46 AM, Brad Parker wrote:


In 1987 gcc would compile to 68k quite well.  Before that I seem to recall that 
there was also a C compiler from Standford, from sumex (wow - do I still have 
those brain cells?).  Remember sumex-aim ?
SumMacC. Anyway, I think the Kinetics fastpath was compiled with that and I 
could swear I was using it as a C compiler on a vax-11/750 running mt. xinu in 
mid 80's.  Find someone from pixar - they
were using it to compile Macintosh code.  I don't know the lineage of that 
compiler, but I think it was a port of something older.



SumMacC was based on MIT/LCS/Terman's port of pcc for the NuMachine project.
I thought I had the sources, but all I've been able to turn up is the MIT 
compiler collection tape with
a bunch of obscure pcc ports.

Re: PDP 8 Timesharing

[Al Kossow]

On 11/30/15 2:20 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:


I'm told by a former operator of one that TSS/8 will also run on an 8/e, but
I don't have independent confirmation that that is so.



It did. The University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee's system was an 8/e with 
custom mods that let you store files on an RK05 drive. Some of

the sources for that system and the source for TSS/8 BASIC are on
bitsavers.

Re: Triprocessor PDP-10 [Was: Re: [multicians] Emacs humor]

[Al Kossow]

On 12/2/15 12:18 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:

On Wed, Dec 02, 2015 at 02:13:06AM +, Rich Alderson wrote:


 KL-10/PDP-10/PDP-6 triprocessor,



Who, besides Peter Löthberg, ran threeprocessor machines?



SAIL, which is the triprocessor Rich is referring to.

Re: TU-58

[Al Kossow]

On 12/4/15 6:40 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:



I seem to recall that the "roller" in the cartridge also turns
to goo, might want to check that out also.



Nope, it's hard plastic. They have been known to have crescents worn
into them if the tape jams and it can't spin against the pinch roller
though.

Re: Help w/ HP 88780 Tape Drive (corrected email).

[Al Kossow]

On 12/3/15 10:45 AM, Mark J. Blair wrote:


 I haven't done much with my Kennedy drive yet other than ordering a 
replacement power switch for it.



Keep an eye on the tach roller, the rubber degrades.
They are nice drives, but they spin fast and are not gentle on tapes.
When they work, they do pretty well on 800bpi media. There were a couple
of different revs of SCSI board, later ones have bigger buffers that
stream better. They also have the advantage over the 88780 that I was
able to find complete service manuals for them with schematics.

If people really get stuck for parts, I still have a few 88780s buried
in storage that I gave up on because I was promised a set of drawings that
came indirectly through some mysterious guy in Seattle, but I never got them.

Re: Evotek Winchester Harddisk

[Al Kossow]

On 12/7/15 3:54 AM, Oliver Lehmann wrote:


And - I found nothing "compatible" so far to replace them with other
harddisks.


It looks similar to the SA1000 interface.  Memorex 112/Fujitsu 2301?
Fujitsu drives were used in Morrow 8" disk units.

Re: Anyone interested in old (PDP-8 driven) Radio Automation hardware?

[Al Kossow]

On 12/8/15 8:54 PM, Alexis Kotlowy wrote:


Very interesting. The cartridges were probably NAB cartridges.


They are continuous loop, lubricated with graphite, with cue tones
on the non-audio tracks. The graphite shed onto the playback head
so you had to clean the heads every couple of shifts at a non-automated
station.
I would assume they had enough carts so that during a normal day the
engineer would only have to clean them once or twice.

The systems I'm familiar with were made by Gates (not Bill) in the early 70s.
No computers at all in them.

Re: Anyone interested in old (PDP-8 driven) Radio Automation hardware?

[Al Kossow]

On 12/9/15 6:24 AM, Mike Boyle wrote:

Do you have photos?



They look just like a Lear 4-track tape, with the hole for the capstan
to pop up into.

Re: DEC MM15 core mem found

[Al Kossow]

On 12/8/15 11:52 PM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:


What where the failure(s) with System Modules in the PDP-6? cost?
reliabilty?



Connectors. They had over the top and backplane connectors. They also
had problems with solder joints on rivets used for connecting traces
on the front and back side of the pcb.

I think Steve Russell talked about having to resolder all of the rivets
in SAIL's PDP-6 over time in his CHM oral history.

Re: Anyone interested in old (PDP-8 driven) Radio Automation hardware?

[Al Kossow]

On 12/9/15 6:24 AM, Mike Boyle wrote:

Do you have photos?



http://www.jimprice.com/prosound/carts.htm

or do a google image search for "broadcast cart"

I had forgotten the top of the cart was often clear

Re: Anyone interested in old (PDP-8 driven) Radio Automation hardware?

[Al Kossow]

On 12/9/15 6:54 AM, Al Kossow wrote:

you had to clean the heads every couple of shifts at a non-automated
station.



I hadn't ever thought much about this, but the air sound of a 1960's Top-40 AM
radio station was the direct result of the invention of the cart machine.

mail hosting

[Al Kossow]

On 12/10/15 8:47 AM, et...@757.org wrote:


Self hosted mail systems for the win.



Sadly, I'm seeing more and more organizations abandoning hosting their own mail
servers (and mailing lists) because it has become too much of a PITA to keep 
spam / being blacklisted
under control.

CHM is in the process of shutting down all of their mailing lists because the 
IT people
don't want to support them any more. The radio station I volunteer for (KFJC) 
trying to
decide if it's worth doing it themselves or just having Google do it :-(

So much for Mailman list archives :-(

Re: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

[Al Kossow]

The biggest one, which started me down the path of software preservation,
was giving away all the DECtapes that were on UW-Milwaukee's TSS/8 system
to Gary Coleman in Cleveland. I managed to find a box or two that other
people on the system kept, which is where what I have of the TSS/8 sources
came from. Gary told me he gave them to Jeff Russ at Indiana University,
but even after going down there to talk to him I got nowhere finding out
if he had (has?) them. I don't even know if Jeff is still alive, or what
happened to the big stash of 18-bit DEC computers he had.

Re: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

[Al Kossow]

On 12/17/15 10:44 AM, Lee Courtney wrote:

About 10-15 years ago a pristine multi-rack fully stuffed HP1000 F-Series
with disc, 1/2 tape, and rack of analog I/O (maybe 2250?) at AuctionBDI.


I have it in storage in San Carlos.

Re: Fw: Odd disk image format... .552?

[Al Kossow]

Could the 552 just be a serial

number `?



It is the version number of the program
There is an entry in the directory "RPO6VER522"
along with "RP06.EXE"

Re: Fw: Odd disk image format... .552?

[Al Kossow]

On 12/22/15 10:57 AM, Al Kossow wrote:




Could the 552 just be a serial

number `?



It is the version number of the program
There is an entry in the directory "RPO6VER522"
along with "RP06.EXE"



It is nice that the Massbus emulator disks have been found.

Re: Anyone collect Fortune 32/16 systems?

[Al Kossow]

On 12/23/15 4:57 AM, Tony Pflum wrote:

I was with a retailer that sold Fortune in about 1982.  It is Motorola
68000 system running UNIX.   It was sold to small business for word
processing and accounting and supported multiple dumb CRT terminals.


You could get a C compiler for it.
The problem is the software is locked to the unit.

I have manuals and a set of floppies (most likely locked)

No time to do anything though, I'm in the middle of a move to a new
building at work.

Re: Odd disk image format... .552?

[Al Kossow]

On 12/23/15 3:38 AM, Mike Ross wrote:

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 12:17 AM, Wouter de Waal  wrote:




Recently found some long-lost images of 5 1/4" floppies that were sent
to me...  10-15 years ago. Here's one of them:

http://www.corestore.org/RP06.552



Looks like a straight image for a 1.44 what we call "stiffy". The 522 is the
version of RP06.

Google leads me to http://www.corestore.org/rp12.htm so you already know
what it's for :-)


Yep. The other thing I'm missing is the removable drive module for the
Quantum XL of course... but I'm hoping I can simply replace the
Passport drive with a SCSI2SD or SCSI2CF device and it'll Just Work...



It was mentioned on another list that 7zip can deal with raw floppy images.

Re: Anyone collect Fortune 32/16 systems?

[Al Kossow]

On 12/23/15 9:45 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

I did the development of the firmware for the monochrome terminal--still have 
the code as well as the prototype PCB. Z80-based.  I used the 32/16 a bit for 
testing.  Fortune was located at the old
Pepsi Bottling Plant in Redwood City.



Did it use ANSI escape sequences?

There is another computer collector in the Bay Area who worked on the Fortune 
Unix port.

The MAME/MESS folks might be interested in simulating the terminal. They like 
working on
things like that. The main CPU would be another simulation target if the 
technical docs ever turn up.

Re: IBM channel-attached DASD emulation

[Al Kossow]

On 12/25/15 5:55 PM, Mike Ross wrote:

I've recently been poking about with various bits of emulation with
hardware interfaces... Dave's MFM emulator; various SCSI-to-USB or
SCSI-to-SDcard devices; my Setasi RP12 Massbus disk emulator; the
Sigma Seven Lisa widget/ProFile emulator etc.

What about IBM channel-attached DASD?




FWIW, I picked this up in October
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230304621233

It is a PC-based device that lets you exercise channel peripherals off-line
simulating the CPU.

Re: IBM channel-attached DASD emulation

[Al Kossow]

On 12/26/15 9:32 AM, William Donzelli wrote:

FWIW, I picked this up in October
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230304621233

It is a PC-based device that lets you exercise channel peripherals off-line
simulating the CPU.


Does it work?

Can I borrow it?

For a long, long time?

--
Will



Sure. I got it cheap and I owe you a favor.

[SPOILERS] Re: Targeting Computers in X wing fighters.

[Al Kossow]

On 12/31/15 3:10 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:

Hi
  Went to Starwars last night.


Thanks a lot.

I should have known better than to open a message with that subject.

Re: Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[Al Kossow]

On 1/6/16 9:42 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:


I have a DEC manual (actually a Products Guide) still in its original
shrink-wrap, and I'm interested in hearing opinions/rationales on whether or
not I should keep it like that


The CHM archivists tell me shrink wrap will continue to shrink, and it 
should be removed. We also don't keep vinyl binders, because they outgas

and get sticky over time.

Re: What to Do with a PS/2?

[Al Kossow]

IS the multiplatform aspect one of the reason why the kernel as such
worked so well ?


It was designed by a crew of ex DEC people who knew WTF they were doing
after having built a couple of kernels from the ground up.

They did quite well for themselves as a result of being in the right 
place at the right time.


The rest of the system is the result of the project management cluster 
fsck that is MSFT.

Re: Jacques Laporte's HP-35 webpage

[Al Kossow]

On 1/28/16 10:48 AM, Kyle Owen wrote:

I'm mostly interested in his work on reverse engineering the HP-35
hardware.
Talk to Eric Smith. He is easier to communicate with, since he is still 
alive.

Re: CDC Sabre 8" SMD blues

[Al Kossow]

only problem would be formatting them for the Symbolics..

On 1/28/16 10:19 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:


I just realized, that I have 2 8" SMD drives that are bolted together
(along with their power supplies).  I have *no* idea of their
operational condition (but physically they're in good shape). If you
want to come down and collect them, they're yours.  They are way too
heavy to ship.

Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Al Kossow]

On 1/29/16 8:04 AM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:


The one thing I'm not seeing mentioned in re VirtualBox is that what if
you have a legacy Win 98SE system with hardware in it, like a GPIB card
or sound card?   Or if you have software that talks to hardware via
serial or parallel ports eg. eprom burners, Zector ZVG vector graphic
driver for MAME, etc.



A cycle-accurate simulator, like MAME, may be more appropriate in those 
cases. Physical device pass through doesn't exist (yet) though. That is

one thing I think a lot of people would be interested in for legacy hw
though then you run into the problem of finding modern hardware with old
slots, since the simulation will give you a 100x hit in performance.

Pascal Microengine software images

[Al Kossow]

I successfully imaged OS revs E0, F0, F1, G0 and H0 of the Pascal 
Microengine from the original
distribution media this morning with the application of cyclomethicone 
as Chuck suggested. I
was worried since they were 79'ish vintage BASF media, but the 
lubrication did the trick and

they read without errors.

http://bitsavers.org/bits/WesternDigital/microengine_distributions_E0-H0.zip

Re: MEM11 update

[Al Kossow]

On 2/8/16 10:09 AM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:

So, things are moving forward.  I also wanted to get folk's opinion on the need 
to actually produce
an SBC form factor board.  In other words (and sort of in line with how 
peripherals were done on the
original 11/20) is it OK to have the MEM11 be outside of the 11/20 chassis and 
connect via BC11A
(my replica) cables?


main problem would be now you'll have to come up with a box and a power 
supply


I assume you meant SPC (quad unibus) and not SBC

Re: Real tape drive densities

[Al Kossow]

On 2/15/16 2:32 AM, Christian Corti wrote:


I've added another picture of a closeup of the R/W head. In my opinion 
it's a 9 track read-after-write head. The geometry and gaps are 
identical to those of the adjacent 7970B 800bpi-only tape drive we have.
I have two 7/9 track HP drives, and a bunch of head stacks. There is no 
erase head. The 7 and 9 track head stacks sit next to each other. I may 
have time to dig them out and take pictures at some point this month.

Re: QSIC update

[Al Kossow]

On 2/15/16 5:05 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

Anyway, we think getting slave cycles working was a major milestone (for a
couple of software guys :-)


yay!

Have you guys thought about a panel that would connect to the KM11
connector slots of real rk11/tc11 controllers? At one point, I thought about
a cable that would let you run virtual KM11's on a laptop screen.

Re: Couple of Xerox 6085 questions

[Al Kossow]

On 2/16/16 2:35 PM, Mike Ross wrote:

1. Anyone who has played with Xerox systems will have encountered the
dreaded 0937 code at boot time; it means "I have been configured for
network operations. I abjure the world and will wait until hell
freezes over before continuing the boot - unless I get the time from a
network time server!"

This is inconvenient and frustrating at times. Netware IPX/SPX is
basically Xerox XNS implemented pretty much unchanged; does anyone
happen to know if a Netware server can provide network time server
functions - and in a way that a Xerox workstation would grok?


there was an NS time server for Unix. it would require some hacking to 
get it

to work on another system

You can set the time manually, but its a bit awkward to set up. See page 
B-7 of 610E00201_XDE_User_Guide_Oct88.pdf under xerox/xde on bitsavers



2. I haven't powered up my 6085s in a long time - at least 5 years;
maybe 10 for some of them. The results have been most disappointing.
They won't even *start* POST - and/or they give a rolling screen with
no sync - and/or a blank screen - and/or they pass POST but won't boot
with an 0151 error. I've tracked these down in most cases to flaky IOB
boards. These boards hold the system PROMs. Anyone else seen similar
issues? Could it be bit rot in the PROMs? Is that a known thing with
6085s?

possible. I'm digging out all of my 6085 parts now so I'll know more in 
a couple of months

Re: Looking to buy a Tektronix 405x computer.

[Al Kossow]

I have an NOS 4054 in Silicon Valley.
It is BIG and HEAVY


On 2/21/16 3:35 PM, Ian Finder wrote:

I've been looking for one of these for ages- I have a lead on a TeK storage
tube terminal and will make a trip for it as soon as I can, but I'd love to
find one of the computers.

I'll pay for one in any condition and shipping from anywhere I can find
one. Does anyone have a lead? Please let me know...

Thanks,

- Ian

Re: HP 21MX paper tapes

[Al Kossow]

They would be part of the cupertino binary distribution tapes on bitsavers.
Unlike DEC, HP had part numbers for EVERY program, with date-coded 
revisions.



On 3/7/16 1:14 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:

I have been going to our HP 21MX paper tapes that come with a M-series
system that we received many years ago:

http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/hp-paper-tapes

I tried to check if they already were available online somewhere but didn't
find them

Re: VMS 4.4 source code microfiche

[Al Kossow]

On 3/12/16 8:11 AM, Antonio Carlini wrote:


It's probably worth experimenting a little


No, it's not.
I'm sorry, but file size matters squat compared to the time it's
going to take to scan them.

Re: Sun 4/260

[Al Kossow]

On 3/12/16 12:56 AM, James Vess wrote:

Howdy there folks,

I've been kicking myself for giving away a dying Sun4/260 due to space
issues and moving about 15 years ago and since then my life has settled
I've started looking occasionally to see if I can find another one.



Where are you?

I have a pair of 280 series servers in racks and a 3 or 4/260 that I'm 
in the process of pulling out of storage along with a LOT of 9u boards 
in the SF bay area. They are going to be available before April.


I am not willing to handle shipping beyond having someone pick them up.

AM-100 board set

[Al Kossow]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201536498192

FYI (esp Cameron)
I was the buyer.
The instruction decoder will be decapped, and the microcode roms send to 
Eric Smith for reading

anyone have a working RV-20 or RV-64?

[Al Kossow]

we have a bunch of optical packs at CHM that we'd like to archive
does anyone have a working setup?

Re: anyone have a working RV-20 or RV-64?

[Al Kossow]

On 3/18/16 9:15 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:

I have a RV20 somewhere. Are you in a big hurry?

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Al Kossow  wrote:


we have a bunch of optical packs at CHM that we'd like to archive
does anyone have a working setup?




no, but I have nothing with a LESI interface, so finding a whole running
system would be better

Re: anyone have a working RV-20 or RV-64?

[Al Kossow]

On 3/20/16 4:27 AM, Al Kossow wrote:

On 3/20/16 12:05 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:


Not a working setup, but if you need spares. They are not mine but I
think you
could have them for free for the good cause.

/P



thanks!



btw, this would be to recover the CAD design data for the VAX 9000

Re: anyone have a working RV-20 or RV-64?

[Al Kossow]

On 3/20/16 12:05 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:


Not a working setup, but if you need spares. They are not mine but I think you
could have them for free for the good cause.

/P



thanks!

Re: "Abandonware" and copyright [was Re: WinWorld]

[Al Kossow]

On 3/30/16 6:26 PM, Paul Koning wrote:





I have a few ideas of my own.. but for now, I'd like to hear other members
thoughts on the matter. Ultimately, it might necessarily involve bringing
the rights holders and/or publishers over on to "our side".


Yes, that's precisely correct.  And doing so requires treating each 
individually as the rightful owner of something we're interested in, and 
treating that owner with respect rather than dismissal.  Fred made that point 
quite clear also.




And that process, from personal experience with several large companies 
while working at CHM, takes time and most often someone sympathetic on 
the inside. It took personal lobbying of Steve Jobs by Andy Herztfeld 
and Bill Atkinson to get Apple to release the Macpaint and Quickdraw 
sources. Fortunately, that example has opened up other code from Apple 
(like the Apple DOS sources) that are being made available.


There are also VERY few examples where we were able to get an agreement 
beyond non-commercial educational use.


Claiming that any MSFT product is "abandonware" is absurd. They DO very 
much care.

tumble under BSD

[Al Kossow]

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever gotten Eric Smith's tumble pdf 
creation program running under any version of BSD?


I ran into a problem porting it to OS X, in the way it used rewind()
and was wondering if anyone else ran into that on other BSDs