DECmate II disk image tooling?

[David Schmidt via cctalk]

I have some disks that look like they're from a DECmate II computer,
standard RX50K drives.  The disk images all look like they're a mix of
12-bit (OS/78 or OS/278?) and 8-bit all on the same media.  I can't
convince PUTR to make sense of the images, so I'm wondering if there is
anything else out there that is likely to be able to examine the disk
contents?  I'm really looking for PUTR-like functionality to list and copy
files.

Maybe SIMH could be configured to be a DECmate II and be fed the disks?

I have a couple of disk images available in case anyone wants to try them
out - they're purported to be "DECmate II CP/M 2.2 version 2.0" and "System
Disk ver. 2.0 8/24/87":
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PD0TlUPiT7MIPEX6abEn33e7s3kSXp_H?usp=sharing

- David

Re: DECmate II disk image tooling?

[Ray Jewhurst via cctalk]

I'm not sure what would be on the "System Disks“ but it's probably OS/78 or 
278. As far as the CP/M disks and the 8-bit component of the disks, those are 
for the Z-80 expansion card which Simh does not emulate.

Ray

Get Outlook for Android

From: cctech  on behalf of David Schmidt via 
cctech 
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2022 3:20:15 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts 
Subject: DECmate II disk image tooling?

I have some disks that look like they're from a DECmate II computer,
standard RX50K drives.  The disk images all look like they're a mix of
12-bit (OS/78 or OS/278?) and 8-bit all on the same media.  I can't
convince PUTR to make sense of the images, so I'm wondering if there is
anything else out there that is likely to be able to examine the disk
contents?  I'm really looking for PUTR-like functionality to list and copy
files.

Maybe SIMH could be configured to be a DECmate II and be fed the disks?

I have a couple of disk images available in case anyone wants to try them
out - they're purported to be "DECmate II CP/M 2.2 version 2.0" and "System
Disk ver. 2.0 8/24/87":
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PD0TlUPiT7MIPEX6abEn33e7s3kSXp_H?usp=sharing

- David

Re: DECmate II disk image tooling?

[Rick Murphy via cctalk]

On 3/12/2022 3:20 PM, David Schmidt via cctech wrote:

I have some disks that look like they're from a DECmate II computer,
standard RX50K drives.  The disk images all look like they're a mix of
12-bit (OS/78 or OS/278?) and 8-bit all on the same media.  I can't
convince PUTR to make sense of the images, so I'm wondering if there is
anything else out there that is likely to be able to examine the disk
contents?  I'm really looking for PUTR-like functionality to list and copy
files.


Since it's a DECMate II, these may be WPS disks.

At least for the RX01/RX02, Those are 8-bit mode except for the boot 
sector (because the standard boot was for a 12-bit mode disk.)  I don't 
know the layout for the RX50 - since it's not using the RX boot, there 
shouldn't have been a need for a 12-bit boot sector.


It's also possible they're COS-310 disks, which also were 8-bit mode.  
Using byte mode allowed WPS and COS to use the full capacity of the 
disks.  Apparently the RX50 controller retained this wasteful 12-bit mode.



Maybe SIMH could be configured to be a DECmate II and be fed the disks?


SIMH doesn't have an emulation for the RX50 controller on the DM2.  
There's probably a different interleave being used here, so decoding the 
layout would be a matter of trial-and-error.


The specs for the RX50 controller are available - 
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp8/cmos8/DECmate/Decmate_II_Specification_Jan83.txt 


That means that an emulator is possible.

    -Rick

Re: DECmate II disk image tooling?

[Tom Hunter via cctalk]

David,
I have a working DECmate III I could try your images on.
Tom

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022, 4:20 am David Schmidt via cctech, <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I have some disks that look like they're from a DECmate II computer,
> standard RX50K drives.  The disk images all look like they're a mix of
> 12-bit (OS/78 or OS/278?) and 8-bit all on the same media.  I can't
> convince PUTR to make sense of the images, so I'm wondering if there is
> anything else out there that is likely to be able to examine the disk
> contents?  I'm really looking for PUTR-like functionality to list and copy
> files.
>
> Maybe SIMH could be configured to be a DECmate II and be fed the disks?
>
> I have a couple of disk images available in case anyone wants to try them
> out - they're purported to be "DECmate II CP/M 2.2 version 2.0" and "System
> Disk ver. 2.0 8/24/87":
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PD0TlUPiT7MIPEX6abEn33e7s3kSXp_H?usp=sharing
>
> - David
>

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 90, Issue 7 - Re: DEC H500 Digital Computer Lab

[DI Gerhard Kreuzer via cctalk]

Hi,
   I also have an H500 waiting for restoration.
   Maybe anyone can give better winfos about the plugs/connectors of the
patch cables.

   I didn't have any, I have to make new.

   With best regards

   Gerhard

   Zitat von cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org:

Send cctalk mailing list submissions to
          cctalk@classiccmp.org

  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
          http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk
  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
          cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org

  You can reach the person managing the list at
          cctalk-ow...@classiccmp.org

  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specificthan "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 90, Issue 7 - Re: DEC H500 Digital Computer Lab

[Tom Hunter via cctalk]

Hi Gerhard,

I used the following banana plugs:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002907717547.html

Please note that only about 30% of the plugs I received were a good fit.
The rest I had to modify.

I had to remove the barrel shaped contact spring and compress it carefully
to open it up to make good contact with the sockets.
I also soldered the barrel shaped contact spring onto the plug body. It is
a lot of work to make the patch cables with plugs which don't quite fit,
but with the modification the result is now neat and usable.

I couldn't find anything else with a better fit. The original 0.1" taper
pins are "unobtainium".

Regards
Tom


On Sun, Mar 13, 2022 at 7:18 PM DI Gerhard Kreuzer via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> I also have an H500 waiting for restoration.
> Maybe anyone can give better winfos about the plugs/connectors of the
> patch cables.
>
> I didn't have any, I have to make new.
>
> With best regards
>
> Gerhard
>
> Zitat von cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org:
> > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to
> >   cctalk@classiccmp.org
> >
> >   To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >   http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk
> >   or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >   cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org
> >
> >   You can reach the person managing the list at
> >   cctalk-ow...@classiccmp.org
> >
> >   When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> > specificthan "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."
>

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 90, Issue 7 - Re: DEC H500 Digital Computer Lab

[DI Gerhard Kreuzer via cctalk]

Hi Tom,

   what do you think about this parts:

Microsoft Word - D5936.doc (mouser.at)[1]

   Looks like 0.09" diameter.

   With best regards

   Gerhard

   Zitat von Tom Hunter :

Hi Gerhard,
 
I used the following banana plugs:
 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002907717547.html
 
Please note that only about 30% of the plugs I received were a good
fit. The rest I had to modify.
 
I had to remove the barrel shaped contact spring and compress it
carefully to open it up to make good contact with the sockets.
I also soldered the barrel shaped contact spring onto the plug
body. It is a lot of work to make the patch cables with plugs which
don't quite fit, but with the modification the result is now neat
and usable.
 
I couldn't find anything else with a better fit. The original 0.1"
taper pins are "unobtainium".

 Regards
 Tom
 



 
On Sun, Mar 13, 2022 at 7:18 PM DI Gerhard Kreuzer via cctalk
 wrote:


Hi,
     I also have an H500 waiting for restoration.
     Maybe anyone can give better winfos about the
plugs/connectors of the
 patch cables.

     I didn't have any, I have to make new.

     With best regards

     Gerhard

     Zitat von cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org:
 > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to
 >           cctalk@classiccmp.org
 >
 >   To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 >           http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk
 >   or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
 >           cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org
 >
 >   You can reach the person managing the list at
 >           cctalk-ow...@classiccmp.org
 >
 >   When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more 
 > specificthan "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."









Links:
--
[1] https://www.mouser.at/datasheet/2/159/D5936-1514588.pdf

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 90, Issue 7 - Re: DEC H500 Digital Computer Lab

[Tom Hunter via cctalk]

Hi Gerhard,

Yes - these look good but the price is much higher than what I paid. As I
no longer work, modifying the cheap Chinese banana plugs was viable. If you
still work and are time limited then the Pomona plugs may be the better
option. It may be best to get a small number first to try before committing
to a larger order.

Best regards
Tom



On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 1:06 AM DI Gerhard Kreuzer <
gerhard.kreu...@liftoff.at> wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> what do you think about this parts:
>
> Microsoft Word - D5936.doc (mouser.at)
> 
>
> Looks like 0.09" diameter.
>
> With best regards
>
> Gerhard
>
> Zitat von Tom Hunter :
>
> Hi Gerhard,
>
> I used the following banana plugs:
>
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002907717547.html
>
> Please note that only about 30% of the plugs I received were a good fit.
> The rest I had to modify.
>
> I had to remove the barrel shaped contact spring and compress it carefully
> to open it up to make good contact with the sockets.
> I also soldered the barrel shaped contact spring onto the plug body. It is
> a lot of work to make the patch cables with plugs which don't quite fit,
> but with the modification the result is now neat and usable.
>
> I couldn't find anything else with a better fit. The original 0.1" taper
> pins are "unobtainium".
>
> Regards
> Tom
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2022 at 7:18 PM DI Gerhard Kreuzer via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I also have an H500 waiting for restoration.
>> Maybe anyone can give better winfos about the plugs/connectors of the
>> patch cables.
>>
>> I didn't have any, I have to make new.
>>
>> With best regards
>>
>> Gerhard
>>
>> Zitat von cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org:
>> > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to
>> >   cctalk@classiccmp.org
>> >
>> >   To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >   http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk
>> >   or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >   cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org
>> >
>> >   You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >   cctalk-ow...@classiccmp.org
>> >
>> >   When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>> > specificthan "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."
>>
>
>
>

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 90, Issue 7 - Re: DEC H500 Digital Computer Lab

[DI Gerhard Kreuzer via cctalk]

Hi Tom,

   everything else ist more expensive than Chinese stuff, but quality ..

   I have to order parts at Mouser, so I will get 10 pcs.
   This will take 3 or 4 weeks, so stay tunes, I will report.

   With best regards

   Gerhard

   Zitat von Tom Hunter :

Hi Gerhard,
 
Yes - these look good but the price is much higher than what I paid.
As I no longer work, modifying the cheap Chinese banana plugs was
viable. If you still work and are time limited then the Pomona plugs
may be the better option. It may be best to get a small number first
to try before committing to a larger order.
 
Best regards
Tom
 
 


 
On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 1:06 AM DI Gerhard Kreuzer
 wrote:


Hi Tom,

  what do you think about this parts:

Microsoft Word - D5936.doc (mouser.at)[1]

  Looks like 0.09" diameter.

  With best regards

  Gerhard

  Zitat von Tom Hunter :

Hi Gerhard,
 
I used the following banana plugs:
 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002907717547.html
 
Please note that only about 30% of the plugs I received were a
good fit. The rest I had to modify.
 
I had to remove the barrel shaped contact spring and compress it
carefully to open it up to make good contact with the sockets.
I also soldered the barrel shaped contact spring onto the
plug body. It is a lot of work to make the patch cables with plugs
which don't quite fit, but with the modification the result is now
neat and usable.
 
I couldn't find anything else with a better fit. The original 0.1"
taper pins are "unobtainium".

 Regards
 Tom
 



 
On Sun, Mar 13, 2022 at 7:18 PM DI Gerhard Kreuzer via cctalk
 wrote:


Hi,
     I also have an H500 waiting for restoration.
     Maybe anyone can give better winfos about the
plugs/connectors of the
 patch cables.

     I didn't have any, I have to make new.

     With best regards

     Gerhard

     Zitat von cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org:
 > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to
 >           cctalk@classiccmp.org
 >
 >   To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 >           http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk
 >   or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
 >           cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org
 >
 >   You can reach the person managing the list at
 >           cctalk-ow...@classiccmp.org
 >
 >   When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more 
 > specificthan "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."







   










Links:
--
[1] https://www.mouser.at/datasheet/2/159/D5936-1514588.pdf

Re: DECmate II disk image tooling?

[David Schmidt via cctalk]

Good point about the CP/M disk - actually it is read just fine with
cpmtools with this diskdef:

# PRO CP/M RX50 DZ format (Perhaps only 79 tracks should be used?)
diskdef dec_pro
  seclen 512
  tracks 80
  sectrk 10
  blocksize 2048
  maxdir 128
  skew 2
  boottrk 2
  os 2.2
end

So I'm left with figuring out how to pull files off of 12-bit OS/{2}78
disks.

- David

On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 5:55 PM Ray Jewhurst  wrote:

> I'm not sure what would be on the "System Disks“ but it's probably OS/78
> or 278. As far as the CP/M disks and the 8-bit component of the disks,
> those are for the Z-80 expansion card which Simh does not emulate.
>
> Ray
>
> Get Outlook for Android 
> --
> *From:* cctech  on behalf of David Schmidt
> via cctech 
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 12, 2022 3:20:15 PM
> *To:* General Discussion: On-Topic Posts 
> *Subject:* DECmate II disk image tooling?
>
> I have some disks that look like they're from a DECmate II computer,
> standard RX50K drives.  The disk images all look like they're a mix of
> 12-bit (OS/78 or OS/278?) and 8-bit all on the same media.  I can't
> convince PUTR to make sense of the images, so I'm wondering if there is
> anything else out there that is likely to be able to examine the disk
> contents?  I'm really looking for PUTR-like functionality to list and copy
> files.
>
> Maybe SIMH could be configured to be a DECmate II and be fed the disks?
>
> I have a couple of disk images available in case anyone wants to try them
> out - they're purported to be "DECmate II CP/M 2.2 version 2.0" and "System
> Disk ver. 2.0 8/24/87":
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PD0TlUPiT7MIPEX6abEn33e7s3kSXp_H?usp=sharing
>
> - David
>

Re: DECmate II disk image tooling?

[Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk]

On 3/13/2022 7:57 AM, David Schmidt via cctech wrote:

Good point about the CP/M disk - actually it is read just fine with
cpmtools with this diskdef:

# PRO CP/M RX50 DZ format (Perhaps only 79 tracks should be used?)
diskdef dec_pro
   seclen 512
   tracks 80
   sectrk 10
   blocksize 2048
   maxdir 128
   skew 2
   boottrk 2
   os 2.2
end

So I'm left with figuring out how to pull files off of 12-bit OS/{2}78
disks.



If you can extract the byte stream from the IMD/IMG files (and 
de-interleave them if necessary into logical order), I have tools to 
read the OS/8, COS, etc. file-systems.


The tools want essentially a 16 bit short for each 12 bit word, in 
logical order.  I think this is essentially what you get for the 
"inefficient" 12 bit mode.  I also have tools to unpack some of the 
interlaced 8-bit formats for RX01/RX02, and those tools may be adaptable 
to the RX50.


Vince

Re: Found! Ge 115 computer brochure

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

A person that had this ge computer would know.   Anyway this listserv still 
rejects images still ?

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 8:31 AM, Adrian Stoness wrote:  
 Upload a scan would help
On Sat., Mar. 12, 2022, 12:26 a.m. ED SHARPE via cctalk, 
 wrote:

Found! Ge 115 computer brochure where can I find the computer?

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android

  

Re: Found! Ge 115 computer brochure

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
A person that had this ge computer would know.   Anyway this listserv 
still rejects images still ?


Sent from the all new AOL app for Android


Yes.  They screw up the teletype.

Re: Found! Ge 115 computer brochure

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

If you can switch to a non-proportional font (not easy with AOHell), you 
can make "ASCII Art".   It's not just for soft-core porn.



On Sun, 13 Mar 2022, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:


A person that had this ge computer would know.   Anyway this listserv still 
rejects images still ?

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android

Text art (Was: Found! Ge 115 computer brochure

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

more like this:
(Who needs VGA, if you have a non-proportional font?)
(Text art, with a proportional font, is psychedelic)


  __
|--|--| __   __   __ | ___ |   () |
| 64X4 | 64X4 | || |  | |  | |  |||   ||   ___|
|--|--| || |  | |  | |  |||   || || D |
| 64X4 | 64X4 | || |__| |__| |__|   ||| I |
|--|--|  |     __   __   | ADV476KN50 | ||| P |
| 64X4 | 64X4 ||TRIDENT | |__| |__|  | 1-54BV  8940   | ||| S |
|--|--| || |TVGA| |__| |__|  || |||___|
| 64X4 | 64X4 | || |8800CS  |  ___|
|--|--| || |11380029|LOW->|  /\ SUPER VGA  | _|   |
| 64X4 | 64X4 | BIOS  | \/ (1) ||_|   | 1 |
|--|--| ||  __  J  __ || _| 5 |
| 64X4 | 64X4 | || |__| 2 |__|  |_|   |___|
|--|--| ||     __ |  /\ SUPER VGA  |   ___|
| 64X4 | 64X4 ||| |__|| \/ (2) |   _  |   |
|--|--| ()  HIGH->||  |_| | 9 |
| 64X4 | 64X4 |    _   _   _  |   |
|__|__|__  || |_| |_| |_| |___|
 |   __TVGA-1623D_ () |
 |LL|  || |___|
  |
  |