Re: Ibm rs6000 7025-f50

[Peter Coghlan via cctalk]

>
> I have a CD still in the original shrink wrap of 5765-393 AIX 4.1.4
> for Clients, LCD4-0114-00. Can't be that hard to find. I have no use
> for it myself anymore, got rid of my RS/6000 systems a few years back.
>

I have a CD which has "5765-393 AIX 4.1.4 for Server for D5 Processors" and
"LCD4-0115-00" on the label.  I'm not sure where I got it.  I think it was in
a CD drive that I rescued from a skip (dumpster).  There are some light
scratches on it but it looks like it should be ok.  Is this of any use to
anyone?

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

Looking for PDP-11/44 / BA11-A rack slides.

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

I would like to rack mount a PDP-11/44 in a proper way and it would be nice
to get hold of a pair of rack slides for the PDP-11/44 (BA11-A) box.

They look like this: http://i.imgur.com/ssetuUt.png

The DEC part number for the entire mounting kit is 70-18133

Does anyone have a pair of spares or know where to find / buy?

Or juts maybe it would be possible to modify a couple or RL0x slides to
carry the 11/44. What do you think? They look sort of similar.

/Mattis

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Dave Wade

>> All CPU's were upgradable on site to any other model. There wasn't
>> really any difference between the models

Yes and no, is my impression. I got the impression from my recent reading
that the addition of the Appending Unit used to create the Multics segmented
memory meant changes throughout the CPU, so that in any line (Multics/GCOS) a
CPU could be field upgraded, but one couldn't upgrade from one line to the
other.

>> Later models also had virtual memory which I think used the MULTICs
>> hardware

No, I think GCOS had it's own. (The Multics one was complex, a lot more than
GCOS needed.)

>> so whilst its possible to say a panel is not from a multics box, I
>> don't think its possible to say exactly which model it came from, and
>> indeed as the CPU was upgradable the same panel could have been on
>> multiple models

Good point.

> Actually looking at this manual:-
> 
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/dps-8/58009853_DPS8_46_70_Reference_Man_Sep82.pdf
> these are from the original hardware GE600/6000/L66/DPS300 machines.
> The DPS8 had a redesigned panel...

Thanks for that pointer! I don't know why I hadn't thought of looking for
Honeywell CPU manuals, that should have been obvious!!

Anyway,I found several with useful bits, especially this one:

  
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/AM81-04_maintPrcds_Nov86.pdf

which does illustrate a number of the panels. From which it's pretty
conclusive that these aren't Multics CPU panels (sigh).

These two:

 
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/GB61-01B_OperatorsGde_Dec87.pdf
 
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/_58009997-040_MULTICS_Differences_Manual_DPS_8-70M_Aug83.pdf

are also interesting in filling in the history.

Noel

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Jim Stephens

> I have a collection of photographs of some here, including my panel.

Yes, I've had a look through all them, thanks for saving them!


To say a bit more about what each one is (as best I can work out), let me
start with the one labelled "The whole group" (which will allow me to name
them all, for talking about the rest of the images).

That shows (from left to right) one of these non-Multics 6000 series CPU
panels, and then what seem to be 5 IOMs (Input/Output Multiplexors), of three
different types. The first, second, and fourth all match. The third is
identical to the one shown on the MIT Multics machine, here:

  http://www.multicians.org/mulimg/h6180-doors-open-big.jpg

Alas, there don't seem to be any closeups of this panel, which is a real
pity! Oh well.

The fifth is similar to the set of three, except that it is missing the
'Configuration' sub-panel in the lower right corner. This is thought to be an
IOM since there some closeups of it, which allow the labels to be read, and
these seem to indicate that it's an IOM. As to the other three, although
there are no closeups, since they match this one, they are thought to be IOMs
also.

I wish I knew why there were two different kinds of IOM panel, but I'd
only be guessing - I haven't seen anything in the manuals so far.

For the discussion below, I'll call them IA (the set of three), IB (the short
one), and II (the one like the one on the MIT 6180).


OK, so here's the rundown on the rest:

- The first 6 show the 'short' IOM (type IB)
- The next three seem to be the back of a Multics CPU panel
- The next is the back of a type IA IOM
- A non-Multics 6000 series CPU
- The type II IOM
- The next two are type IA IOMs
- The type IB IOM
- The whole group
- A Multics CPU panel (this may be the one that went to the LCM?)
- Another image of the back of that
- The next four are details of the front of the Multics CPU
- Then two more images of the back of it
- The front of a non-Multics 6000 series CPU
- The back of it
- Finally, three detail images of the front


I _think_ I have them all right - if not, apologies!

Noel

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 6:33 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> I wish I knew why there were two different kinds of IOM panel, but I'd
> only be guessing - I haven't seen anything in the manuals so far.
>
>
I know that the IOMs evolved; starting with the GE era GIOC (Generalized
I/O Controller), IOM, IMU (Information Multiplexor Unit), and the NSA (New
System Architecture).

I have seen references to IOM 6000 and IOM 6000A model numbers.

The NSA units duplicated the page table lookup hardware, allow process
generated channel programs to do I/O in the process memory space.

If one of the IOM panels has any reference to paging, then it would be from
the NSA series.

The SCU memory size configuration switches would also be a clue. I believe
that the early SCUs had a 256K word maximum configuration, the later 4MW
SCU a 4MW maximum; the settings on the configuration switches should
correspond to earlier or later models, but I don't have any correlation
between model names/numbers and capacity.

-- Charles

RE: Looking for PDP-11/44 / BA11-A rack slides.

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Mattis Lind via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 7:22 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Looking for PDP-11/44 / BA11-A rack slides.

I would like to rack mount a PDP-11/44 in a proper way and it would be nice
to get hold of a pair of rack slides for the PDP-11/44 (BA11-A) box.

They look like this: http://i.imgur.com/ssetuUt.png

The DEC part number for the entire mounting kit is 70-18133

Does anyone have a pair of spares or know where to find / buy?

Or juts maybe it would be possible to modify a couple or RL0x slides to
carry the 11/44. What do you think? They look sort of similar.

/Mattis
__

Interesting.  That looks nothing like the slides that were on the 11/44's I had.
Mine were much heftier, allowed the box to flip up giving access to the bottom
and had damper to keep it from falling and cutting your fingers off as they
weigh a ton.

bill

RE: DecWindows on remote display

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Richard Loken via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2017 9:06 PM
To: Cameron Kaiser
Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: DecWindows on remote display

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Cameron Kaiser wrote:

> Wit. There was a Mozilla build for VAX???

> I have Netscape Navigator 3, but I thought that was the last VAX build. It
> runs ... acceptably on my M76, though I wouldn't call it sprightly.

No, I remembered after I sent it.  It would be Netscape 3?.  But remember!!
It is spelled Netscape but it is pronounced Mozilla! :)

I still have that 3100.  I wonder if the disk will spin up?  I took out
the battery on general principle, it is sitting up here beside me with
nary a leak, it has been lying there for years...

___

My 3100's all still run.  Take that Intel (before I moved to my new
and smaller quarters 3 years ago I went thru my stash of PC's and
threw out about 2 dozen that would not even get thru POST!!  And
that was after just sitting on shelves in my computer room for a few
years.)

bill

RE: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
> Chiappa via cctalk
> Sent: 27 July 2017 14:02
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?
> 
> > From: Dave Wade
> 
> >> All CPU's were upgradable on site to any other model. There wasn't
> >> really any difference between the models
> 
> Yes and no, is my impression. I got the impression from my recent reading
> that the addition of the Appending Unit used to create the Multics
> segmented memory meant changes throughout the CPU, so that in any line
> (Multics/GCOS) a CPU could be field upgraded, but one couldn't upgrade
> from one line to the other.
> 

That's actually how I see it. I meant within the 600/6000/L66/DPS line.
After doing more reading it looks like the three generations so transistor
(600?), TTL (6000, L66, DPS100/200/300) and MOS (some of the DPS8) systems
had different panels. 
I think there is one other difference. The 600 and 6000 models had core
memory. L66 onwards had solid state memory..


> >> Later models also had virtual memory which I think used the MULTICs
> >> hardware
> 
> No, I think GCOS had it's own. (The Multics one was complex, a lot more
than
> GCOS needed.)
> 

Ah yes that makes sense.

> >> so whilst its possible to say a panel is not from a multics box, I
> >> don't think its possible to say exactly which model it came from,
and
> >> indeed as the CPU was upgradable the same panel could have been on
> >> multiple models
> 
> Good point.
> 
> > Actually looking at this manual:-
> > http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/dps-
> 8/58009853_DPS8_46_70_Reference_Man_Sep82.pdf
> > these are from the original hardware GE600/6000/L66/DPS300 machines.
> > The DPS8 had a redesigned panel...
> 
> Thanks for that pointer! I don't know why I hadn't thought of looking for
> Honeywell CPU manuals, that should have been obvious!!
> 

Glad you found the link usefull...

> Anyway,I found several with useful bits, especially this one:
> 
>   http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/AM81-
> 04_maintPrcds_Nov86.pdf
> 
> which does illustrate a number of the panels. From which it's pretty
> conclusive that these aren't Multics CPU panels (sigh).
> 
> These two:
> 
>  http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/GB61-
> 01B_OperatorsGde_Dec87.pdf
>  http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/_58009997-
> 040_MULTICS_Differences_Manual_DPS_8-70M_Aug83.pdf
> 
> are also interesting in filling in the history.
> 
>   Noel

I just wish I had kept more of my Honeywell documentation...

Dave

Re: Ibm rs6000 7025-f50

[Mark G Thomas via cctalk]

Hi,

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 04:05:56AM +0100, Henry Bond via cctalk wrote:
> I'd be more than happy to buy it, do you think settling for 4.1.4 when it can 
> run 4.1.5?
> Probably a patience moment! 

AIX 5.3 should run on this machine, so why run 4.x?

Here are the AIX_5.3 release notes, which mention 7025-f50:

https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/community/forums/ajax/download/----13948999/d5c75973-f837-4fe1-b0d2-d0aff023a00a/attachment_13948999_AIX_5_3_Release_Notes.pdf

As best I can tell, 5300-12-02-1036 was the final service pack and technology
level. 5.3 CDs shoud be readily available on ebay for cheap. I think I got 
mine for less than $20, and you can probably find the 5300-12-02-1036 SP 
download via google.

Mark

-- 
Mark G. Thomas (m...@misty.com), KC3DRE

Re: Looking for PDP-11/44 / BA11-A rack slides.

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

torsdag 27 juli 2017 skrev Bill Gunshannon via cctalk :

>
> __
>
> Interesting.  That looks nothing like the slides that were on the 11/44's
> I had.
> Mine were much heftier, allowed the box to flip up giving access to the
> bottom
> and had damper to keep it from falling and cutting your fingers off as they
> weigh a ton.


That is the PDP-11X44 style mounting where the box is mounted on the top of
a low cabinet. The PDP-11X44 has a dual TU58 below the CPU. I am a bit
curious about what the rest of the low cabinet was used for.

The other option is to mount it on slides as usual.

I have seen the same type of slides used on VAX82xx box.

/Mattis

Re: Ibm rs6000 7025-f50

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> AIX 5.3 should run on this machine, so why run 4.x?

Depends on what you want to run on it. AIX 5 definitely had poorer multimedia
support and I think was an overall worse workstation operating system than 4
or even 3.2.5.

OTOH, AIX 5 is certainly a lot easier to find, and works well enough at the
command line.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Emulate your heroes, but not if they're dead. --

Re: Looking for PDP-11/44 / BA11-A rack slides.

[Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 06:06:05PM +0200, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:

> I am a bit curious about what the rest of the low cabinet was used 
> for.
> 

Me too, bu I guess the answer is "cabling".

/P

Re: Looking for PDP-11/44 / BA11-A rack slides.

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Pontus Pihlgren pontus at Update.UU.SE 

> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 06:06:05PM +0200, Mattis Lind wrote:

> I am a bit curious about what the rest of the low cabinet was used >
> for.

I have an -11/44 which has a BA11-K mounted below the CPU.

Noel

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Dave Wade

> three generations so transistor (600?), TTL (6000, L66, DPS100/200/300)
> and MOS (some of the DPS8) systems had different panels. 

I've never seen mention of a Multics DPS100/200/300 machine, so maybe they
skipped Multics support in that generation?


> From: Charles Anthony

> I know that the IOMs evolved; starting with the GE era GIOC
> (Generalized I/O Controller), IOM, IMU (Information Multiplexor Unit)

They can't be IMU's (or anything later, I'm pretty sure); according to the
Dec '87 Operator's Guide (GB61-01B), page 2-2, "All switch functions for an
IMU are done via a console connected to ... a microprocessor in the IMU." So
no big light/switch boards on them...

Noel

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:52 AM, jim stephens via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
>> I have a collection of photographs of some here, including my panel.
>
> http://jimsoldtoys.blogspot.com/search/label/multics
>

According to Multicians.org, the only Atlanta Multics was: "

   1. Southern Company Services Inc.
 (Atlanta
   GA, USA) (2 L68, 4 MSU0451, 4 MSU0501) [1982 - ?]"
   2.
   3.

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Charles Anthony <
charles.unix@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:52 AM, jim stephens via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> I have a collection of photographs of some here, including my panel.
>>
>> http://jimsoldtoys.blogspot.com/search/label/multics
>>
>
> According to Multicians.org, the only Atlanta Multics was: "
>
>1. Southern Company Services Inc. 
> (Atlanta GA, USA) (2 L68, 4 MSU0451, 4 MSU0501) [1982 - ?]"
>2.
>3.
>
>
My email skillz are quickly deteriorating . Trying again:

Southern Company Services Inc. (Atlanta GA, USA) (2 L68, 4 MSU0451, 4
MSU0501) [1982 - ?]"

I'm not sure how authoritative that is, but it implies that Jim's Atlanta
CPU panels would be from a Level 68 machine.(In 1975, Honeywell rebranded
everything into Level xx lines, so 645 -> 6180 -> Level 68 -> DPS8/M).

-- Charles

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On the subject, I need someone with a better memory.

Around 1973 or so, I visited a friend at the old GE Plant in Phoenix.
All Hoyt could talk about was GECOS, but he was gracious enough to give
me a cook's tour of the development area, including the water-cooled
something or the other, which was still in free-standing racks.  The CE
console for that thing was impressive--several CRTs, a couple of Nixie
thermometer-type displays.

At any rate, prowling around, he pointed out a few of the older GE
systems, apparently awaiting a journey to the scrapyard.   One really
impressed me--the console had an analog meter in it calibrated in
"thousands of operations per second".   I have never seen such a thing
since.

Anyone remember what system this might have been?

--Chuck

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:52 AM, jim stephens via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
>> I have a collection of photographs of some here, including my panel.
>
> http://jimsoldtoys.blogspot.com/search/label/multics


FIRST+Maintenance+Panel:

IOM configuration panel.Note the bootload control on the lower right.
Booting was handled by the IOM, not the CPU.

Configuration+Panel+WHITE:

Hard to read the writing, but I think it is a SCU configuration panel.
Closer examination of the memory size switches should reveal if it is a
256K or 4MW model.

SECOND Maintenance  panel:

IOM

Two Thirds Maintenance panel:

Can't make it out.

Configuration panel black:

CPU maintenance panel, for a four port CPU.

-- Charles

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On the subject, I need someone with a better memory.
>
> Around 1973 or so, I visited a friend at the old GE Plant in Phoenix.
> All Hoyt could talk about was GECOS, but he was gracious enough to give
> me a cook's tour of the development area, including the water-cooled
> something or the other, which was still in free-standing racks.  The CE
> console for that thing was impressive--several CRTs, a couple of Nixie
> thermometer-type displays.
>
> At any rate, prowling around, he pointed out a few of the older GE
> systems, apparently awaiting a journey to the scrapyard.   One really
> impressed me--the console had an analog meter in it calibrated in
> "thousands of operations per second".   I have never seen such a thing
> since.
>
> Anyone remember what system this might have been?
>
>
Gah. I saw a picture of one somewhere recently, but I can't remember where.

-- Charles

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Ed via cctalk]

In looking at our  collection of  panels  in front of us,  the  large group 
of smaller and   large black panels  seem  to be the same between all op 
sys  however.   On the   main panel - yes the difference is the APU  lights.  
As  I  work  though the volume of  stuff in warehousing will have to keep an 
 eye out  for one  with  APU.
 
Would  all the  processors  have  APU on the panel  or  just  some of them 
in a cluster ( if that is the correct  term)
 
So the ones on the surface here   were probably running  GCOS  or  CP6 (The 
Big H that thought it was a Xerox Sigma...) 
 
For me that is a closer personal tie since I had a GCOS account I   would 
occasionally 'Play'  with.
 
Looking at all the panels in the publications below is  really a brain  
whack  compared to the   full maint  panel I  have   for series II series III 
HP-3000  that neatly fits in a  suitcase I can carry under one  arm.. ( I 
guess I had it easy!)
 
Ed Sharpe Archivist  for SMECC 
 
 
 
In a message dated 7/27/2017 6:01:49 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

> From: Dave Wade

>> All CPU's were  upgradable on site to any other model. There wasn't
>>  really any difference between the models

Yes and no, is my impression.  I got the impression from my recent reading
that the addition of the  Appending Unit used to create the Multics 
segmented
memory meant changes  throughout the CPU, so that in any line 
(Multics/GCOS) a
CPU could be field  upgraded, but one couldn't upgrade from one line to  the
other.

>> Later models also had virtual  memory which I think used the MULTICs
>>  hardware

No, I think GCOS had it's own. (The Multics one was  complex, a lot more 
than
GCOS needed.)

>> so  whilst its possible to say a panel is not from a multics box, I
>> don't think its possible to say exactly which model it came  from, and
>> indeed as the CPU was upgradable the same  panel could have been on
>> multiple models

Good  point.

> Actually looking at this manual:-
>  
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/dps-8/58009853_DPS8_46_70_Reference_Man_Sep82.pdf
> these are from the original hardware GE600/6000/L66/DPS300  machines.
> The DPS8 had a redesigned  panel...

Thanks for that pointer! I don't know why I hadn't thought of  looking for
Honeywell CPU manuals, that should have been  obvious!!

Anyway,I found several with useful bits, especially this  one:

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/AM81-04_maintPrcds_
Nov86.pdf

which  does illustrate a number of the panels. From which it's pretty
conclusive  that these aren't Multics CPU panels (sigh).

These  two:

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/GB61-01B_OperatorsG
de_Dec87.pdf
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/_58009997-040_MULTI
CS_Differences_Manual_DPS_8-70M_Aug83.pdf

are  also interesting in filling in the history.

Noel

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Ed via cctalk]

I will have  to  dig out our  GE 400 op console and   look  -Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 7/27/2017 11:47:07 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

On Thu,  Jul 27, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On the subject, I need  someone with a better memory.
>
> Around 1973 or so, I visited a  friend at the old GE Plant in Phoenix.
> All Hoyt could talk about was  GECOS, but he was gracious enough to give
> me a cook's tour of the  development area, including the water-cooled
> something or the other,  which was still in free-standing racks.  The CE
> console for that  thing was impressive--several CRTs, a couple of Nixie
> thermometer-type  displays.
>
> At any rate, prowling around, he pointed out a few  of the older GE
> systems, apparently awaiting a journey to the  scrapyard.   One really
> impressed me--the console had an  analog meter in it calibrated in
> "thousands of operations per  second".   I have never seen such a thing
>  since.
>
> Anyone remember what system this might have  been?
>
>
Gah. I saw a picture of one somewhere recently, but I  can't remember where.

--  Charles

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Ed via cctalk]

the  the one  doing the snake  crawl is an op panel?   that has  apu
and these other  white multics panels are maint panels or?
Thanks  Ed# 
 
 
In a message dated 7/27/2017 11:22:57 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

My email  skillz are quickly deteriorating . Trying again:

Southern Company  Services Inc. (Atlanta GA, USA) (2 L68, 4 MSU0451, 4
MSU0501) [1982 -  ?]"

I'm not sure how authoritative that is, but it implies that Jim's  Atlanta
CPU panels would be from a Level 68 machine.(In 1975, Honeywell  rebranded
everything into Level xx lines, so 645 -> 6180 -> Level 68  -> DPS8/M).

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 7:37 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> However, the suspect CPU panels don't have those sections; see an image of
> one
> here:
>
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/multics/jpg/multics_panel.jpg
>
> with detailed images here:
>
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/multics/jpg/multics_panel_cu1.jpg
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/multics/jpg/multics_panel_cu2.jpg
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/multics/jpg/multics_panel_cu3.jpg
>
> Which is not _definitive_ that they aren't from a Multics machine, but it
> certainly raises a big question mark. So, the question is, 'are they
> Multics
> panels, just for some reason without the APU section, or what'?
>
>
Image cu2, right side, "HISTORY REGISTER SELECT" had "CU COUNTER" (Control
Unit; instruction decoding), "OU COUNTER" (Operations Unit; fixed point and
boolean arithmetic) and "DU COUNTER" (Decimal Unit; floating point and
decimal math").

Notably, no "APU COUNTER" as seen on the LCM_Labs panel; so presumably no
Append Unit. This panel is from a GCOS machine.

-- Charles

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 12:03 PM,  wrote:

> the  the one  doing the snake  crawl is an op panel?  that has  apu
> and these other  white multics panels are maint panels or?
> Thanks  Ed#
>

[Details vary across models]

Typically 'maintenance panel' and 'configuration panel'.

The snake crawl is the maintenance panel; the snake is the contents of the
A and Q registers. Set "DISPLAY SELECT" to "SCROLL" and rotate the DATA
scroll wheel to "AQ".

The maintenance panels are mostly lights; the configuration panels mostly
switches.

-- Charles

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Ed via cctalk]

Charles - OK  do the difference in the MULTICS  processor  is  just the one 
 panel   With the APU then? Thx - Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 7/27/2017 12:12:18 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
charles.unix@gmail.com writes:



On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 12:03 PM,  wrote:


the  the one  doing the snake  crawl is an op  panel?  that has  apu
and these other  white multics panels are maint panels or?
Thanks  Ed# 





[Details vary across models]


Typically 'maintenance panel' and 'configuration panel'.


The snake crawl is the maintenance panel; the snake is the contents of  the 
A and Q registers. Set "DISPLAY SELECT" to "SCROLL" and rotate the DATA  
scroll wheel to "AQ".


The maintenance panels are mostly lights; the configuration panels mostly  
switches.


-- Charles

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Ed via cctalk]

wait...you Mean  the LCM one doing the  snake dance is not MULTICS? or 
am I getting confused?
( Hey that  snake  dance is captivating! I want one of our panels to  do 
that!)
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 7/27/2017 12:04:38 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

Notably,  no "APU COUNTER" as seen on the LCM_Labs panel; so presumably no
Append  Unit. This panel is from a GCOS machine.

--  Charles

About Computer History wiki accounts

[Antonio Carlini via cctalk]

Hi Noel,

I thought I'd send this offlist to avoid cluttering things up.


This has now been cleared; Tore has put up accounts for all the requests he
could find, and he's also made me an 'admin' on the wiki, so I can create
accounts. So if you would like to add/edit content there, please let me know,
and I can create an account for you. (Send me the desired account name.)



I did send an email way back when and never heard back. But I could easily have 
missed a reply recently ...

That did spur me to take the VAX data that I gathered over the years in various 
text files and push them through a script to turn them
into wiki pages that I keep on my local wiki (in the house). If these would be 
of any interest I could export them and try to import them,
or pass them along and let someone else have a go. It needs a template too.

If this sounds interesting, let me know and I can pass along a sample for you 
to look at.

Currently I have no pictures, I doubt that I have anything unique but I could 
always dig stuff out and take photos if that would help at all.
Sadly I only have one MicroPDP-11 and (I think) a WT72 ... everything else is 
VAX or Alpha ...

Regards,

Antonio

--
Antonio Carlini
arcarl...@iee.org

Re: CPU meter Was: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Charles Anthony

> Gah. I saw a picture of one somewhere recently, but I can't remember
> where.

Are you thinking of this one:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/SysConKAPanel.jpg

Meter closeup here:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/SysConMeter.jpg

Noel

Re: CPU meter Was: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > From: Charles Anthony
>
> > Gah. I saw a picture of one somewhere recently, but I can't remember
> > where.
>
> Are you thinking of this one:
>
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/SysConKAPanel.jpg
>
> Meter closeup here:
>
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/SysConMeter.jpg
>
>
Yes; that's the one I saw.

-- Charles

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 12:19 PM,  wrote:

> wait...you Mean  the LCM one doing the snake dance is not MULTICS? or
> am I getting confused?
> ( Hey that  snake dance is captivating! I want one of our panels to  do
> that!)
>

The LCM is Multics; it has the "APU SELECT" switches.

-- Charles

Re: CPU meter Was: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 07/27/2017 12:48 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
> > From: Charles Anthony
> 
> > Gah. I saw a picture of one somewhere recently, but I can't remember
> > where.
> 
> Are you thinking of this one:
> 
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/SysConKAPanel.jpg
> 
> Meter closeup here:
> 
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/SysConMeter.jpg

Nope, this wasn't a minicomputer.  And the meter labeling was definitely
"Thousand operations per second".

--Chuck

DECstation 220 Impasse Reached

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

Hello Everyone,

 

As I have mentioned before I have made some progress on a DECstation 220,
but I have reached an impasse. I get some signals on the data bus which I am
not sure about. They look odd, but they could be normal, I just don't know.
I took a picture of the scope trace, which is here:
https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/decstation-220-data-signals.jpg
.

 

Any advice on whether that looks like a "normal" signal?

 

If anyone is interested, I have posted more details on general progress in
this blog posting: https://robs-old-computers.com/2017/07/27/decstation-220/

 

Thanks

 

Rob

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Thu, 27 Jul 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

impressed me--the console had an analog meter in it calibrated in
"thousands of operations per second".   I have never seen such a thing
since.


Several generic clone PC cases had a 2 digit numeric display.
I moved the jumpers on one in the lab from "10" to "18".  Two instructors 
commented about how much faster it was now running, than it had been!


(for anybody not familiar with generic clone hardware, it did not measure 
ANYTHING, it simply had two values that it could display based on a 
"speed" pin.  "HI" and "LO" were a popular alternative)

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Ed via cctalk 
wrote:

> In looking at our  collection of  panels  in front of us,  the  large group
> of smaller and   large black panels  seem  to be the same between all op
> sys  however.   On the   main panel - yes the difference is the APU
> lights.
> As  I  work  though the volume of  stuff in warehousing will have to keep
> an
>  eye out  for one  with  APU.
>
>
If you know the provenance of a panel (which site it came from), it may be
possible to work out what model of machine it came from; Multicians.org has
a list of sites and some information about the sites hardware.



> Would  all the  processors  have  APU on the panel  or  just  some of them
> in a cluster ( if that is the correct  term)
>
>
For a multiple CPU Multics, all of the CPUs would have the APU.

I don't know if CGOS supported multiple CPUs; a quick google didn't turn up
any examples, but I don't think that there is any hardware reason why they
couldn't.

I don't think there is any difference in GCOS/Multics SCUs; later SCU
models had more memory (Multics: Many Unnecessarily Large Tables In Core
Simultaneously).

Some of the IOMs had a "Multics" mode that enabled them to access the
Multics page tables; it is not clear(to me) that that model was required
for Multics; I am researching.

-- Charles

Cromemco and AM Jacquard

[Gary McGill via cctalk]

Anyone interested in diskettes of system software and some application
software of AM Jacquard for the Cromemco computer?  They are over 25 years
old.

Email me direcly at nwsoftw...@comcast.net 

  GM
Gary McGill

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


> (for anybody not familiar with generic clone hardware, it did not measure
> ANYTHING, it simply had two values that it could display based on a "speed"
> pin.  "HI" and "LO" were a popular alternative)
>
>
There were some of the clones (I seem to recall) that had a front panel
high/low speed switch; at low speed it throttled the CPU to allow some CPU
speed sensitive games to play correctly.

-- Charles

Re: Cromemco and AM Jacquard

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Gary McGill via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Anyone interested in diskettes of system software and some application
> software of AM Jacquard for the Cromemco computer?  They are over 25 years
> old.
>
>
Wow. I wrote applications for the AM100 and AM500 back in the what? late
70's/early 80's.  Nova clones, I seem to recall.

-- Charles

Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Thu, 27 Jul 2017, Charles Anthony wrote:

There were some of the clones (I seem to recall) that had a front panel
high/low speed switch; at low speed it throttled the CPU to allow some CPU
speed sensitive games to play correctly.


That was to turn on and off the TURBOCHARGER that was used to speed them 
up.
I was never quick enough to play the early LODERUNNER with the 
turbocharger enabled.
Could they have saved some power by using a SUPERCHARGER, driven by the 
waste computrons?

RE: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Charles
> Anthony via cctalk
> Sent: 27 July 2017 21:22
> To: Ed Sharpe ; General Discussion: On-Topic and
> Off-Topic Posts 
> Cc: Noel Chiappa 
> Subject: Re: Honeywall mainframe CPU front panel ID?
> 
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Ed via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
> > In looking at our  collection of  panels  in front of us,  the  large group
> > of smaller and   large black panels  seem  to be the same between all op
> > sys  however.   On the   main panel - yes the difference is the APU
> > lights.
> > As  I  work  though the volume of  stuff in warehousing will have to
> > keep an  eye out  for one  with  APU.
> >
> >
> If you know the provenance of a panel (which site it came from), it may be
> possible to work out what model of machine it came from; Multicians.org has
> a list of sites and some information about the sites hardware.
> 
> 
> 
> > Would  all the  processors  have  APU on the panel  or  just  some of
> > them in a cluster ( if that is the correct  term)
> >
> >
> For a multiple CPU Multics, all of the CPUs would have the APU.
> 
> I don't know if CGOS supported multiple CPUs; a quick google didn't turn up
> any examples, but I don't think that there is any hardware reason why they
> couldn't.
> 

GCOS (and the original GECOS) supported multiple CPU's, up to 4 CPUs. I 
remember being told that Littlewoods (who had 2 x 4 CPU systems) noticed that 
one complex was running slowly, and eventually realized it had lost a CPU 
because a switch on one of the panels we have been discussing was set wrongly.


As for the DPS100/200/300 I think this was merely a "re-badging" of the L66 
systems. When I was at NERC our L66/60 single CPU box was upgraded to a 2 x CPU 
DSP300..

> I don't think there is any difference in GCOS/Multics SCUs; later SCU models
> had more memory (Multics: Many Unnecessarily Large Tables In Core
> Simultaneously).
> 
> Some of the IOMs had a "Multics" mode that enabled them to access the
> Multics page tables; it is not clear(to me) that that model was required for
> Multics; I am researching.
> 
> -- Charles


Dave Wade
G4UGM & EA7KAE

Supply reel on HP 7970

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

Stupid me left a tape on my HP 7970 drive for too long and it has wedded
itself to the rubber hub retainer.  Brute force isn't gong to work this
time.(Imation tape with the plastic hub).  Tried getting some silicone
lube in to loosen things; no go.

So I need to pull off the reel hub from the motor.   I've looked at both
the 7970 and 7878 drive service manuals and I'm not sure that I see how
it's done.  Is it the allen-head setscrew near the center of the hub?

Thanks for any advice,
Chuck

tapes

[Gary McGill via cctalk]

I have 7 brand new reel tapes, BASF 2400', 800-6250 BPI, free to whoever
will pay shipping.

I have over a dozen cartridge tapes (Verbatim DC9120, 3M 6150, 3M DC300XL/P,
etc.) new or gently used on S/36 system, free to whoever will pay shipping.

I'm Bellingham, WA.  Email me directly at nwsoftw...@comcast.net

  GM
Gary McGill

Re: DecWindows on remote display

[John Blake via cctalk]

Is there a version of Lynx for VMS that will work with HTTPS?  The
version I have won't work with it and CSWB is a horribly outdated pig.
> Probably Mozilla 1 or there about.  I think that was about the time I stopped 
> trying to run any browser other than Lynx on my DEC Alpha.
>
> Zane

Sperry UTS 40 on Ebay - Statesboro, Georgia

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

No association with the seller, just passing the info on 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142458218680

Re: Sperry UTS 40 on Ebay - Statesboro, Georgia

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Oh, I have a Sperry Univac UTS 40 and its 8-inch floppy disk subsystem. 
I love this machine but it's been down for 15 years now. I suspect a 
simple PSU problem but it would be the opportunity to have possible rare 
parts.
However I reside in Belgium. I sent a mail to the seller to know his 
price for a shipment.


A photo of my dear beast :

http://www.actingmachines.com/img/photos/24_big.jpg


On 27/07/2017 23:58, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:

No association with the seller, just passing the info on 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142458218680

Re: Sperry UTS 40 on Ebay - Statesboro, Georgia

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 7/27/2017 10:31 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
Oh, I have a Sperry Univac UTS 40 and its 8-inch floppy disk 
subsystem. I love this machine but it's been down for 15 years now. I 
suspect a simple PSU problem but it would be the opportunity to have 
possible rare parts.
However I reside in Belgium. I sent a mail to the seller to know his 
price for a shipment.


A photo of my dear beast :

http://www.actingmachines.com/img/photos/24_big.jpg


On 27/07/2017 23:58, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:

No association with the seller, just passing the info on 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142458218680




I did a project for C-Itoh / Sperry years ago to do an interface board 
to run a CI-300 / 600 / 900 on a mainframe, I think the 1100.


The interface channel the mainframe used could be fitted to the UTS-40, 
so they had shipped a system as you describe to us with CPM, so I could 
print to the channel interface for testing my interface board / firmware.


I had to run the channel to pull the lines of information, and translate 
them to the line printer in more or less "normal" streaming format.  I 
also had a serial channel added so you could flip an option and run from 
the channel to any serial port, so there was no need to burn up paper.


The system was quite solid, built like a tank.

At the time TWA was still operating, and with an appropriate keyboard, 
they used the UTS-40 for airline res terminals.  When they were moved to 
Saber when Pars was killed off, there was a temporary surge of the 
terminal boxes, but the keyboards would have been a pain to use, and 
there was no simple way to add the 8" drive subsystem you have.


Hope you fix it, it is an impressive CP/M system.  representative of 
"anything worth doing is worth overdoing" as far as CP/M.  So much 
hardware that never gets touched when running that.


If you happen to have drawings or pointer to such (if on bitsavers as I 
write, I have not checked) I'd be interested of stashing such in case 
one ever drops in my lap.


thanks
Jim