PS2 Model 30 memory
I have a friend who wants to add more memory to a PS2 model 30. They are off in the wilds of Oz and acquired this for a good price and would like to just upgrade it to run some programs they have which do not run on modern faster systems. I know this is a snake pit to deal with, and can get more info if someone can get me some information or point me at references for them to look at. What I'm really interested in doing is seeing if just the memory can be had, and it isn't easy to find Sim modules these days, though I suspect there are metric tons of them rotting in places forgotten and not recycled yet. anyway any info to get started would be useful. i see there are entire systems on epay, and may suggest just buying one of them and cannibalizing them for their memory should the asking price for the individual SIMM parts be ridiculous. i could buy the system, us the system to be sure the memory does something and send them the memories alone for reasonable shipping. It would also net them a backup hard drive which are very scarce in even good times as well. I'm hoping that the memories were common to other systems and not some oddball special IBM part. Old advertisements that show up on google show a number of people making them, but that doesn't mean they can be found now of course. thanks jim
Re: PS2 Model 30 memory
Are they different than plain 30 pin simm? I remember I had one of these, had a 30 pin simm, used it as a keyholder, when first 386 boards appeared, I sold it to use on a 386 for a hefty price! :oD AFAIR, these are common 1mb 30 pin simm http://www.terapeak.com/worth/vintage-30-pin-simm-pulled-from-ibm-ps2-30-268-8530-e01/131699477584/ 2017-01-26 6:09 GMT-02:00 jim stephens : > I have a friend who wants to add more memory to a PS2 model 30. They are > off in the wilds of Oz and acquired this for a good price and would like to > just upgrade it to run some programs they have which do not run on modern > faster systems. > > I know this is a snake pit to deal with, and can get more info if someone > can get me some information or point me at references for them to look at. > > What I'm really interested in doing is seeing if just the memory can be > had, and it isn't easy to find Sim modules these days, though I suspect > there are metric tons of them rotting in places forgotten and not recycled > yet. > > anyway any info to get started would be useful. > > i see there are entire systems on epay, and may suggest just buying one of > them and cannibalizing them for their memory should the asking price for > the individual SIMM parts be ridiculous. i could buy the system, us the > system to be sure the memory does something and send them the memories > alone for reasonable shipping. It would also net them a backup hard drive > which are very scarce in even good times as well. > > I'm hoping that the memories were common to other systems and not some > oddball special IBM part. Old advertisements that show up on google show a > number of people making them, but that doesn't mean they can be found now > of course. > > thanks > jim > >
Re: 8085 Address Decoding
On 26/01/2017 01:09, "Alexis Kotlowy" wrote:
>> My Executel ROM disassembly puts this block of code between 0x0F38 and
>> 0x0F3E:
>>
>> 0F38L0F38:
>> 0F38 : 7B"{"[4]mova,e
>> 0F39 : 95" "[4]subl
>> 0F3A : 5F"_"[4]move,a
>> 0F3B : 7A"z"[4]mova,d
>> 0F3C : 9C" "[4]sbbh
>> 0F3D : 57"W"[4]movd,a
>> 0F3E : C9" "[10] ret
>>
>> Does that make sense? I might not have a full disassembly since L0F38 is
>> only called from two places and neither of them jump back to 0x0FB2 but I
>> know that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>
> Hi Adrian,
>
> The instruction at 0x0F3E is RET, so it's going to read two bytes off
> the stack and jump to it. This is what you're seeing at 0xF0B2 and
> 0xF0B3. I'd suggest you look at how RAM is addressed at the top of
> memory space and see if it's correct.
I was afraid someone might say that. Whilst I don't have a memory map for
this system (or any other docs apart from the ones I'm writing myself) I did
notice last night that CAS-1 was missing. RAM is laid out like a CBM PET
with 16x 4116 DRAMs split into lower and upper blocks. RAS and CAS-0 are
pulsing.
More probing tonight then!
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
Re: Selling off my collection
How much is the - -Bell Labs MAC-8 Microprocessor Trainer Kit thanks Ed# In a message dated 1/25/2017 11:01:50 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, sellam.ism...@gmail.com writes: I'm starting the long process of selling off my entire collection. There's a lot to go through. Some more details are here: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55964-Selling-Off-the-Collection And some photos are here: http://s350.photobucket.com/user/Sellam_Abraham/library/ Keep in mind the machines represented here are the cream of the crop. I have much more stuff in the form of 40 pallets that needs to get sorted through and moved on. I'll be much more inclined to sell off that stuff quickly, but with these I am ready to take my time. That being said, I'll entertain any reasonable offer. I still have a bunch of photos of magazines to post (just scratching the surface). Pallets worth. Probably best to contact me directly if you're interested in something. I have much, much more. Thanks for looking! Sellam
Re: Selling off my collection
Marvellous collection. On the other hand, so far from me to get or purchase anything else. The CP/M would be my choice but... Good luck with all the process. Hope all goes well, by the way. Kind Regards Sergio 2017-01-26 3:22 GMT+01:00 Sellam Ismail : > I'm starting the long process of selling off my entire collection. There's > a lot to go through. Some more details are here: > > http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55964-Selling-Off-the-Collection > > And some photos are here: > > http://s350.photobucket.com/user/Sellam_Abraham/library/ > > Keep in mind the machines represented here are the cream of the crop. I > have much more stuff in the form of 40 pallets that needs to get sorted > through and moved on. I'll be much more inclined to sell off that stuff > quickly, but with these I am ready to take my time. That being said, I'll > entertain any reasonable offer. > > I still have a bunch of photos of magazines to post (just scratching the > surface). Pallets worth. > > Probably best to contact me directly if you're interested in something. I > have much, much more. > > Thanks for looking! > > Sellam
Re: PS2 Model 30 memory
According to http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-28274.html , this machine has 128KB soldered in, and can optionally use 2 256KB SIMMs. If this is the case, I may have some SIMMs of the right type. Do you have the exact details of the correct SIMMs to use? On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 9:09 AM, jim stephens wrote: > I have a friend who wants to add more memory to a PS2 model 30. They are > off in the wilds of Oz and acquired this for a good price and would like to > just upgrade it to run some programs they have which do not run on modern > faster systems. > > I know this is a snake pit to deal with, and can get more info if someone > can get me some information or point me at references for them to look at. > > What I'm really interested in doing is seeing if just the memory can be > had, and it isn't easy to find Sim modules these days, though I suspect > there are metric tons of them rotting in places forgotten and not recycled > yet. > > anyway any info to get started would be useful. > > i see there are entire systems on epay, and may suggest just buying one of > them and cannibalizing them for their memory should the asking price for > the individual SIMM parts be ridiculous. i could buy the system, us the > system to be sure the memory does something and send them the memories > alone for reasonable shipping. It would also net them a backup hard drive > which are very scarce in even good times as well. > > I'm hoping that the memories were common to other systems and not some > oddball special IBM part. Old advertisements that show up on google show a > number of people making them, but that doesn't mean they can be found now > of course. > > thanks > jim > >
11/34 with drives on ebay
Nice 11/34 with 4 RL02's and some misc other stuff. Not mine, just passing it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/192087506057 Ed -- Ik email, dus ik besta. BTC : 1Lk6141nvDKPxtCa5erfFyovsoJN2LKqNJ
Re: 11/34 with drives on ebay
On Jan 26, 2017 7:10 AM, "E. Groenenberg" wrote: > > > Nice 11/34 with 4 RL02's and some misc other stuff. > Not mine, just passing it. > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/192087506057 > > Ed > -- > Ik email, dus ik besta. > BTC : 1Lk6141nvDKPxtCa5erfFyovsoJN2LKqNJ > Pricey but looks nice, this seller has sold a lot of DEC gear lately. 11/35, etc. My opinion..the 11/34 is an 11/40 without the aggrevation... and the lights. I have owned a few, a great UNIBUS system and I regret not spending more time on them when I had one...but for $5000, not that much regret. Bill
Re: 11/34 with drives on ebay
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 7:32 AM, william degnan wrote: > On Jan 26, 2017 7:10 AM, "E. Groenenberg" wrote: >> Nice 11/34 with 4 RL02's and some misc other stuff. >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/192087506057 I've run quad-RL02 systems before - kinda handy. Usually the 4th one is available for transfers between machines and not in use 100% of the time... > Pricey but looks nice, this seller has sold a lot of DEC gear lately. > 11/35, etc. > > My opinion..the 11/34 is an 11/40 without the aggrevation... and the lights. Hmm... I've worked with a lot of 11/34 over the years but not 11/40. > I have owned a few, a great UNIBUS system and I regret not spending more > time on them when I had one...but for $5000, not that much regret. The 11/34 is a great small-to-medium Unibus system. In the full-sized BA11-K, plenty of room for peripherals. The only real limitation I ever had was the 256K memory space (that's where the 11/24 comes in handy - not faster but fatter). It will be interesting to see if that price holds up to real-world demand. -ethan
Re: Looking to read past EOT on DDS/DLT/LTO
On Wed, 25 Jan 2017, Nico de Jong wrote: > I did some research, and the most reasonable outcome was that it was not > possible by normal means, because some algorithm reading synchronisation > data couldnt find out what was happening, so, the backup was ruined. Odd. This would imply you couldn't wind a tape past a medium error and read what's behind, but I surely did it a couple of times with DDS tapes. And this is exactly why I gave up on some proprietary (OSF/1 IIRC) `dump' utility as it recorded an archive directory at the beginning making the whole archive unusable if an error developed there. OTOH `tar' keeps file information along with actual data spreading it across the archive, so any medium error only causes the immediately affected file to be lost. Same with `cpio' (except for the arcane CLI). Maciej
Re: Looking to read past EOT on DDS/DLT/LTO
On 01/26/2017 10:23 AM, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote: > And this is exactly why I gave up on some proprietary (OSF/1 IIRC) > `dump' utility as it recorded an archive directory at the beginning > making the whole archive unusable if an error developed there. OTOH > `tar' keeps file information along with actual data spreading it > across the archive, so any medium error only causes the immediately > affected file to be lost. Same with `cpio' (except for the arcane > CLI). I find that the tar CLI in its full glory is no less arcane than the creaky old cpio one. tar used to be simple with few options. --Chuck
Re: Looking to read past EOT on DDS/DLT/LTO
> I find that the tar CLI in its full glory is no less arcane than the > creaky old cpio one. Ah, but what is "the tar CLI"? The POSIX one (which version?)? The GNU one (which version?)? The V7 one? The one you learnt 15 years ago and have trouble remembering anything beyond even now? :-) > tar used to be simple with few options. True - and true of a lot more than just tar. And, if you are ready to give up all the functionality correspnoding to the new options (whichever set of new options you mean), it probably wouldn't be that hard to tweak an old tar source into building today. _Also_ true of a lot more than just tar /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: 11/34 with drives on ebay
On Thu, January 26, 2017 13:32, william degnan wrote: > On Jan 26, 2017 7:10 AM, "E. Groenenberg" wrote: >> >> >> Nice 11/34 with 4 RL02's and some misc other stuff. >> Not mine, just passing it. >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/192087506057 >> >> Ed >> -- >> Ik email, dus ik besta. >> BTC : 1Lk6141nvDKPxtCa5erfFyovsoJN2LKqNJ >> > > Pricey but looks nice, this seller has sold a lot of DEC gear lately. > 11/35, etc. > > My opinion..the 11/34 is an 11/40 without the aggrevation... and the > lights. > > I have owned a few, a great UNIBUS system and I regret not spending more > time on them when I had one...but for $5000, not that much regret. > > Bill > Price is steep indeed, my guess a grand for the system (if fully working) would be a more realistic price, but that's just my opinion. I have 2 11/34's, one in the 5.25 inch box, and one in a BA11-K box, I also have an 11/40 in need of some minor repair. Ed -- Ik email, dus ik besta. BTC : 1Lk6141nvDKPxtCa5erfFyovsoJN2LKqNJ
Re: Looking to read past EOT on DDS/DLT/LTO
For the NCAR Mass Storage System, when we upgraded our tape drives to Sun STK T1 models, we lost the ability to skip past the EOT mark with standard firmware. We asked Sun to provide a firmware modification that let us issue four or so reads after reaching the EOT mark, and the drive would then continue on until it found good data again. We didn’t need it very often, but it was handy to recover single copy data.
Re: Service Manual Direct 831, Direct 825 or Basic Four S/10
On 25.01.2017 22:01, Armin Diehl wrote: finally got one of the Basic Four S10. Does someone have a service manual for these or the Direct Inc. models ? The one i got was a little bit damaged due to shipping within Europe. Found at least one transistor and one cap that broke off the video monitor board. Will try to fix that next week. The Basic Four S/10 was developed and build by Direct Inc, Santa Clara, California. They sold the machine as a serial terminal (Dec/HP) as well as a terminal in combination with a CP/M 2 board. Direct 825 with CP/M: http://basicfour.de/pics/s10/Direct_825.jpg Direct 831 as a terminal without the second cpu/floppy controller board: http://basicfour.de/pics/s10/s-l500.jpg and the basic four s/10: http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/mai/ Btw, I'm also looking for MAI Basic Four Software for the Models 2000, 210/510/730 Thx machine with floppy and terminal boards: http://basicfour.de/pics/s10/3.jpg - Armin Diehl a...@ardiehl.de here the machine is shown as the first one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkC-ftFEytU Grüsse Armin Diehl a...@ardiehl.de
RE: 11/34 with drives on ebay
E. wrote... -- Price is steep indeed, my guess a grand for the system (if fully working) would be a more realistic price, but that's just my opinion. -- A fully working 11/34, in a complete period rack (with all side panels and filler panels), and 4 working RL02's, VT220, a Decwriter, a good set of disk packs, RSTS 7 media and manuals All shown working (except the LA).. $1000 isn't realistic at all. It should definitely be higher than that. Oh, and thus fully outfitted to run RSTS (likely the appropriate memory and serial connectivity)... Of course it all depends on what buyer decides they want it, as "worth" and "selling price" aren't the same thing with a datapoint of just one sale particularly on ebay. But as to "worth"... I would bet $3K to $5K USD. J
Re: 11/34 with drives on ebay
On 1/26/2017 12:26 PM, Jay West wrote: A fully working 11/34, in a complete period rack (with all side panels and filler panels), and 4 working RL02's, VT220, a Decwriter, a good set of disk packs, RSTS 7 media and manuals All shown working (except the LA).. $1000 isn't realistic at all. It should definitely be higher than that. I've seen the H960 racks go for a significant percentage of the $1000 in the shape this system is in. As Jay said, someone backs up to this guys operation and moves this carefully and has a running system (and the RL02's don't crash after relocation) $3000 to $5000 is a great deal. I guess the hassle of finding all the parts, or just getting them turnkey ready has a price, as well as the trend for things to go up these days. thanks Jim
ISO: Documentation for a Northern Scientific NS-600
Hi all -- Went spelunking in a hoarder's basement this morning (long story) and came out with a few interesting items, including a Northern Scientific NS-600. >From what I can tell it's from the late 60s and is capable of storing and analyzing digital data (and can display it on a tiny scope display). There isn't any real documentation out there, just a few research papers here and there noting its use in various experiments. Anyone have anything on this? Thanks, Josh
Re: 11/34 with drives on ebay
On Thu, January 26, 2017 21:41, jim stephens wrote: > > > On 1/26/2017 12:26 PM, Jay West wrote: >> A fully working 11/34, in a complete period rack (with all side panels >> and >> filler panels), and 4 working RL02's, VT220, a Decwriter, a good set of >> disk >> packs, RSTS 7 media and manuals All shown working (except the LA).. >> $1000 isn't realistic at all. It should definitely be higher than that. > I've seen the H960 racks go for a significant percentage of the $1000 in > the shape this system > is in. As Jay said, someone backs up to this guys operation and moves > this carefully and has > a running system (and the RL02's don't crash after relocation) $3000 to > $5000 is a great deal. > > I guess the hassle of finding all the parts, or just getting them > turnkey ready has a price, as well > as the trend for things to go up these days. > > thanks > Jim I'm actually surprised that it would be worth that much. Moving RL02's is easy, just make sure the heads are locked by moving the little metal plate next to the heads (and undo it after relocation is done). Ed -- Ik email, dus ik besta. BTC : 1Lk6141nvDKPxtCa5erfFyovsoJN2LKqNJ
Re: Looking to read past EOT on DDS/DLT/LTO
Hi, Thanks for the notes/comments/suggestions. Recovery service: not that I've found. Most of the ones I know of have *us* as their HP 3000 experts (i.e., we help them :) ... when I've asked in recent years about handling damaged or overwritten DDS (or newer) tapes, I've always been told 'no'. The "cut out some tape" would definitely not work. At least LTO, probably DLT, have multiple tracks and the tape makes multiple passes from start of tape to end of tape as it writes the entire tape. That means on a 16 track tape, you'd lose part of 16 different sections if you cut out a piece of tape (ignoring the question of whether or not the drive could resynch after such an error :) Eric's reply is closest to home ... that's why I mentioned a 'hacked' drive, hoping someone might know specialists who have one. Chuck mentioned an approach I had mentioned: the power kill during writing approach. I'm hesitant to try that as it will (based on dim memory of doing it 15 years ago on a DDS) lose a small bit of data ... if it works at all. I'm giving up for now. thanks, Stan > From: Eric Smith > > I hope someone can prove me wrong, but I think that short of a major effort > to hack the drive firmware, the data is gone. Modern tape drives are "too > smart" to allow reading past logical EOT, and the tape format is too > complex to allow fooling the firmware by any simple means. > > -- > From: "Nico de Jong" > > I've had the same problem some years back, with a DDS-3, IIRC > > I did some research, and the most reasonable outcome was that it was not > possible by normal means, because some algorithm reading synchronisation > data couldnt find out what was happening, so, the backup was ruined. > > > From: Chuck Guzis > > With nothing left to lose, I suppose that one might overwrite the EOT > and then kill power during the write, then attempt to read backward from > the end of the tape. > > -- > From: "j...@cimmeri.com" > > Would it be possible to just physically > cut the 1kb + EOT portion of tape out, > and then attempt to read from > beginning? I suppose this would depend > on how the backup data is formatted on > the tape (using some kind of container > format with error checking, for instance). > > -- > From: Jerry Weiss > > Have you approached a commercial recovery service for a quote? > A few do tape media. Whether they quote or not may provide a data point > about how feasible it may be.
Re: 11/34 with drives on ebay
> From: Jay West > A fully working 11/34, in a complete period rack (with all side panels > and filler panels), and 4 working RL02's, VT220, a Decwriter ... > $1000 isn't realistic at all. It should definitely be higher than that. I concur. My methodology for _accurately_ valuing something like this is to create as comprhensive a list of sub-items as possible, then value them, and then add it up; something like this: $A Bare H960 $B 2 x H960 side panels $C BA11-K (box and power supply) $D BA11-K slides $E DD11-PK backplane $F PDP-11/34 CPU boards $G MS11-L $H 4 x RL02 drives $I 15 x RL02 packs etc etc. Alas, the listing doesn't say exactly which boards are in the 11/34 (and not even any pictures of the insides). I don't know exactly how much $A, etc are - I have varying levels of experience with these things, but for instance, I know that MS11-L's are much desired, and command high prices. Note that the listing does have a reserve, so their actual asking price is above $5K. Getting that total out of one bidder may be a bit too far; they might have better luck getting it sold if it was a couple of smaller lots. Noel
Re: ISO: Documentation for a Northern Scientific NS-600
Sounds like a dedicated pulse-height analyzer. DEC sold a lot of machines used for this purpose, but there were dedicated units that had no CPU, but had memory, often core. >From Wikipedia: "A Pulse Height Analyzer (PHA) is an instrument used in >nuclear and elementary particle physics research which accepts electronic >pulses of varying heights from particle and event detectors, digitizes the >pulse heights, and saves the number of pulses of each height in registers or >channels for later spectral analysis." --Bill
Re: Anyone have the service guide for a Sanyo VM4209 monitor?
it took a month but http://www.manuals-in-pdf.com did finally come through with a manual i stuck it up on https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98434900/VM4509_SM_SANYO_EN.pdf for now On 1/24/17 5:32 PM, Santo Nucifora wrote: >> I need the schematics. I'm not sure I trust all those "manual" sites on >> the web that want to sell you a PDF for $15. >>
Re: Looking to read past EOT on DDS/DLT/LTO
> On Jan 26, 2017, at 1:23 PM, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Jan 2017, Nico de Jong wrote: > >> I did some research, and the most reasonable outcome was that it was not >> possible by normal means, because some algorithm reading synchronisation >> data couldnt find out what was happening, so, the backup was ruined. > > Odd. This would imply you couldn't wind a tape past a medium error and > read what's behind, but I surely did it a couple of times with DDS tapes. That's a good point. Can it really be true that a tape error that creates a false EOT results in the loss of all remaining data? Surely the designers weren't *that* stupid? paul
Re: 11/34 with drives on ebay
On 1/26/2017 3:13 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > From: Jay West > A fully working 11/34, in a complete period rack (with all side panels > and filler panels), and 4 working RL02's, VT220, a Decwriter ... > $1000 isn't realistic at all. It should definitely be higher than that. I concur. My methodology for _accurately_ valuing something like this is to create as comprhensive a list of sub-items as possible, then value them, and then add it up; something like this: $A Bare H960 $B 2 x H960 side panels $C BA11-K (box and power supply) $D BA11-K slides $E DD11-PK backplane $F PDP-11/34 CPU boards $G MS11-L $H 4 x RL02 drives $I 15 x RL02 packs etc etc. Alas, the listing doesn't say exactly which boards are in the 11/34 (and not even any pictures of the insides). I don't know exactly how much $A, etc are - I have varying levels of experience with these things, but for instance, I know that MS11-L's are much desired, and command high prices. Note that the listing does have a reserve, so their actual asking price is above $5K. Getting that total out of one bidder may be a bit too far; they might have better luck getting it sold if it was a couple of smaller lots. Noel I've dealt with this seller. He is probably willing to tell you what his reserve is, and let you put in an offer. if it doesn't sell he wants to move stuff out, not look at it anymore, and a $5k bid might take it, or he would tell you his reserve. Mind that he has sold and has a lot of stock and probably has better market knowledge right now, so he might hold out, or might surprise you. Also note that the "pick it up in NJ" makes it less desirable, so a good offer and ability to quickly get it out of his way will help too. I've bought select boards, and he was diligent in getting me what I needed for one. I'd love this system if I had the $$, moving capability. If I were to run actual hardware it is hard to argue with a loaded RSTS system already spinning. thanks Jim
Re: Looking to read past EOT on DDS/DLT/LTO
On 01/26/2017 06:01 PM, Paul Koning wrote: > That's a good point. Can it really be true that a tape error that > creates a false EOT results in the loss of all remaining data? > Surely the designers weren't *that* stupid? It happens. You can't skip over it or even space to EOT and then read backwards. Some "intelligent" drives were really stupid. --Chuck
DECUS TECO for OS/8
I am trying to build the DECUS TECO with VT support for OS/8. TECO came from ibiblio and the assembler listing says it is OS/8 TECO VERSION 7. I am using MACREL-V1B. It all assembles without error, but the linker fails with a NO ROOM message. I can't find any information on what NO ROOM means from the MACREL documentation. This is using SIMH PDP8 with 32k words. I also found MACREL V2 source, but it in in MACREL, but I have not tried to bootstrap it using V1. I was hoping to make source editing just a little bit easier. -chuck
Re: IBM 7074 and then some: "Systems we love" conference
On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > "Transactions of Society of Actuaries" > 1959, Volume 11, Number 31 > That's certainly more convincing, but it still seems to be a bit of a mystery. The four authors of IBM's Early Computers were all engineers and engineering managers intimately involved with the development of the computers in that time frame, were researchers at IBM when the book was written, and based much of the book on material from IBM archives. I could imagine them getting a date wrong, but it seems pretty surprising that they would specifically claim that the 7070 was announced far before the 7090 but shipped six months after, if that wasn't true. IBM generally didn't consider a data processing system to have "shipped" until it passed the field acceptance criteria, e.g., assembled on-site and passed diagnostics. Perhaps the 7070 didn't pass acceptance testing until April 1960?
Re: ISO: Documentation for a Northern Scientific NS-600
On 2017-Jan-26, at 1:48 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: > Hi all -- > > Went spelunking in a hoarder's basement this morning (long story) and came > out with a few interesting items, including a Northern Scientific NS-600. > From what I can tell it's from the late 60s and is capable of storing and > analyzing digital data (and can display it on a tiny scope display). > > There isn't any real documentation out there, just a few research papers > here and there noting its use in various experiments. Anyone have anything > on this? Here's a catalog page and pic of the Northern Scientific NS-544 from 1967/8, I wonder if the NS-600 might be a subsequent model: https://books.google.ca/books?id=25-jBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA716&lpg=PA716 This is billed as a Digital Memory Oscilloscope. It sounds like a contemporary of and very similar to the HP5480 Digital Signal Analyser I have, from the same era. The NS-544 and HP5480 are basically precursors to the modern DSO, but rather than being intended as a general purpose scope (too slow and too expensive), they had modes and were targeted for applications that could benefit from the digitisation and (numerical) storage and manipulation of the signal. They could do things like signal averaging and very-slow-signal capture. The HP-5480 had a mode which which would produce histograms of pulse rates (think nuclear decay rates). So they contain AD converters, digital memory (core can be expected as Bill mentioned, if it's from the late 60s, that's what's in my HP5480), adder/ALU, and a whack of hardwired logic to control it all. Pic of the front panel controls would be interesting and might help categorize it.
Re: DECUS TECO for OS/8
On 1/26/2017 9:33 PM, Charles Dickman wrote: I am trying to build the DECUS TECO with VT support for OS/8. TECO came from ibiblio and the assembler listing says it is OS/8 TECO VERSION 7. I am using MACREL-V1B. It all assembles without error, but the linker fails with a NO ROOM message. I can't find any information on what NO ROOM means from the MACREL documentation. This is using SIMH PDP8 with 32k words. I also found MACREL V2 source, but it in in MACREL, but I have not tried to bootstrap it using V1. I was hoping to make source editing just a little bit easier. -chuck What are you trying to do with TECO? I have a OS/8 RK05 image with MACREL and the TECO source that builds correctly. Or, did at some point. LINKing that uses the following: .LINK TECOMy version of the TECO code has been edited to allow ANSI terminals vice VT52, which may be what you're trying to get to. Want a copy of the disk image? -Rick
Re: IBM 7074 and then some: "Systems we love" conference
On 01/26/2017 06:49 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > IBM generally didn't consider a data processing system to have > "shipped" until it passed the field acceptance criteria, e.g., > assembled on-site and passed diagnostics. Perhaps the 7070 didn't > pass acceptance testing until April 1960? Does IBM retain a corporate archivist on staff? That might be a resource. I do get the idea that the 7070, designed as a replacement for the 650, was a machine that IBM probably would like to forget. --Chuck
Re: DECUS TECO for OS/8
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:03 PM, Rick Murphy wrote: > On 1/26/2017 9:33 PM, Charles Dickman wrote: >> >> I am trying to build the DECUS TECO with VT support for OS/8. >> >> TECO came from ibiblio and the assembler listing says it is OS/8 TECO >> VERSION 7. I am using MACREL-V1B. It all assembles without error, but >> the linker fails with a NO ROOM message. >> >> I can't find any information on what NO ROOM means from the MACREL >> documentation. >> >> This is using SIMH PDP8 with 32k words. >> >> I also found MACREL V2 source, but it in in MACREL, but I have not >> tried to bootstrap it using V1. >> >> I was hoping to make source editing just a little bit easier. >> >> -chuck >> > What are you trying to do with TECO? I would like a bit easier way to edit and EDIT and was hoping the VT support made the learning curve less steep. The sources say VT100 and VT52, and if am thinking that means VT52 emulation on a VT100. > I have a OS/8 RK05 image with MACREL and the TECO source that builds > correctly. Or, did at some point. > > LINKing that uses the following: > > .LINK TECO *TECNUM,TECERR,TECOVX,TECOVQ,TECOVF,TECOVI,TECDEF,TECSRH$ The version I have was seems to has more files in the link list. > > Seems likely that the NO ROOM error is coming from the linker. > > My version of the TECO code has been edited to allow ANSI terminals vice > VT52, which may be what you're trying to get to. Want a copy of the disk > image? Oh yes. > -Rick > >
Re: IBM 7074 and then some: "Systems we love" conference
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017, Eric Smith wrote: On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: "Transactions of Society of Actuaries" 1959, Volume 11, Number 31 On a system like that, how much time could elapse between, "We (customer) are switching to..."? decision planning negotiating contract begin manufacturer of first bespoke component finish manufacture of last bespoke component begin shipping delivery of last awaited part begin installation complete assembly and turn on power initial diagnostic IPL diagnostics redo whatever needs redoing first IPL to actually begin customer's data processing 'twould seem that there could be a moderately substantial amount of time between the customer saying, "we are getting" V "we are now using" Even the phrase "shipped" need not be when the customer starts printing out the nine billion names of god. (1953, so it predates the 7074) imagine them getting a date wrong, but it seems pretty surprising that they would specifically claim that the 7070 was announced far before the 7090 but shipped six months after, if that wasn't true. IBM generally didn't consider a data processing system to have "shipped" until it passed the field acceptance criteria, e.g., assembled on-site and passed diagnostics. Perhaps the 7070 didn't pass acceptance testing until April 1960? Yep, That is implied, but not explicitly confirmed by the customer saying, "we are switching to..." ANY "FIRST" will run into overlaps between the ways that the "first" date can be chosen and marked for multiple products in development. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: IBM 7074 and then some: "Systems we love" conference
Even the phrase "shipped" need not be when the customer starts printing out the nine billion names of god. (1953, so it predates the 7074) OK, that was a "Mark V, Automatic Sequence Computer". In the story, Chuck (no last name, so not confirmed to be OUR Chuck), had the last word: "Look" http://downlode.org/Etext/nine_billion_names_of_god.html
Re: IBM 7074 and then some: "Systems we love" conference
On 01/26/2017 07:50 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: >> Even the phrase "shipped" need not be when the customer starts >> printing out the nine billion names of god. (1953, so it >> predates the 7074) > > OK, that was a "Mark V, Automatic Sequence Computer". > > In the story, Chuck (no last name, so not confirmed to be OUR > Chuck), had the last word: "Look" > > http://downlode.org/Etext/nine_billion_names_of_god.html I remember reading that one many years ago. The bit about the stars quietly winking out at the end stuck in my mind.-- Nine Giganames doesn't seem so much in our days of tera- and peta- and yottawhatsis. --Chuck
Re: 11/34 with drives on ebay
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Jay West wrote: > E. wrote... > -- > Price is steep indeed, my guess a grand for the system (if fully working) > would be a more realistic price, but that's just my opinion. > -- > > A fully working 11/34, in a complete period rack (with all side panels and > filler panels), and 4 working RL02's, VT220, a Decwriter, a good set of disk > packs, RSTS 7 media and manuals All shown working (except the LA).. > $1000 isn't realistic at all. It should definitely be higher than that. Agreed. $1000 is low for this system. Prices on empty complete H960 cabinets have gone up over the years, even if the 11/34 isn't the most "valuable" CPU in the line. Then go price 4 BC20J cables and a terminator... > Of course it all depends on what buyer decides they want it, as "worth" and > "selling price" aren't the same thing with a datapoint of just one sale > particularly on ebay. Naturall. > But as to "worth"... I would bet $3K to $5K USD. I'd certainly say this machine should support at least $3K price. -ethan
Re: IBM 7074 and then some: "Systems we love" conference
In the story, Chuck (no last name, so not confirmed to be OUR Chuck), had the last word: "Look" http://downlode.org/Etext/nine_billion_names_of_god.html On Thu, 26 Jan 2017, Chuck Guzis wrote: I remember reading that one many years ago. The bit about the stars quietly winking out at the end stuck in my mind.-- Nine Giganames doesn't seem so much in our days of tera- and peta- and yottawhatsis. Unless they increased commensurate with Moore's law, . . . How large is the NSA Utah Data Center?That is a LottaBytes. They should have enough computrons to get the job done in minutes.
Re: ISO: Documentation for a Northern Scientific NS-600
On 1/26/17 7:02 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote: On 2017-Jan-26, at 1:48 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: Hi all -- Went spelunking in a hoarder's basement this morning (long story) and came out with a few interesting items, including a Northern Scientific NS-600. From what I can tell it's from the late 60s and is capable of storing and analyzing digital data (and can display it on a tiny scope display). There isn't any real documentation out there, just a few research papers here and there noting its use in various experiments. Anyone have anything on this? Here's a catalog page and pic of the Northern Scientific NS-544 from 1967/8, I wonder if the NS-600 might be a subsequent model: https://books.google.ca/books?id=25-jBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA716&lpg=PA716 This is billed as a Digital Memory Oscilloscope. It sounds like a contemporary of and very similar to the HP5480 Digital Signal Analyser I have, from the same era. The NS-544 and HP5480 are basically precursors to the modern DSO, but rather than being intended as a general purpose scope (too slow and too expensive), they had modes and were targeted for applications that could benefit from the digitisation and (numerical) storage and manipulation of the signal. They could do things like signal averaging and very-slow-signal capture. The HP-5480 had a mode which which would produce histograms of pulse rates (think nuclear decay rates). So they contain AD converters, digital memory (core can be expected as Bill mentioned, if it's from the late 60s, that's what's in my HP5480), adder/ALU, and a whack of hardwired logic to control it all. Pic of the front panel controls would be interesting and might help categorize it. Here are some pics (front panel pic is img_0110). It definitely has core memory in it (which makes sense, like you and Bill said). It's filthy on the outside but pretty clean inside... if I could figure out how to interface it and use it it might be fun to play with... http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/ns600 - Josh
