Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[Noel Chiappa]

So I have a question for people who are involved in museums, and similar
roles - how intense should I be about keeping things just as they were?
I have a DEC manual (actually a Products Guide) still in its original
shrink-wrap, and I'm interested in hearing opinions/rationales on whether or
not I should keep it like that, as opposed to (carefully) opening it to be
gain access to the content. Is there any value at all, historically, to
keeping the original packaging intact, or should I just go ahead and open it?
Thanks!

Noel

Wanted: Specific Mallory cap...

[Bill Sudbrink]

Hi all,

I am in the process of restoring/recreating a linear
PS as part of a project and I would like to use the
original parts if possible.  I'm looking for six
Mallory axial electrolytic capacitors.  The physical
dimensions are 11mm in diameter by 44mm in length.
They have a clear plastic wrap, so the aluminum
silver color shows through.  The printing on them
goes around the circumference (not end to end) and
reads:

   +-M-+
2000 MF 10 V
 20-48923

Electrically, they are (were) 2000uf, 10 volt.  My
bet is that these are mil-spec versions of Mallory's
TT10X2000 capacitor.  They physically match some
Mallory TT15X1000 caps that I have in my parts box.
I've been "beating the bushes" for a while now with
no luck on the "20-48923" part number.  I've also
contacted all of the web site owners that claim to
have TT10X2000s.  They have all come back with "well,
we don't actually seem to have that part after all".

If anyone has either of the above, I'll pay a good
price for them.  They don't have to be in operational
condition electronically, I'll "restuff" them if
necessary.

Thanks,
Bill Sudbrink

Re: Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[Ian S. King]

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Noel Chiappa 
wrote:

> So I have a question for people who are involved in museums, and similar
> roles - how intense should I be about keeping things just as they were?
> I have a DEC manual (actually a Products Guide) still in its original
> shrink-wrap, and I'm interested in hearing opinions/rationales on whether
> or
> not I should keep it like that, as opposed to (carefully) opening it to be
> gain access to the content. Is there any value at all, historically, to
> keeping the original packaging intact, or should I just go ahead and open
> it?
> Thanks!
>
> Noel
>

IMHO:

The 'original packaging' approach is more relevant for resale value of
collectables, e.g., toys.  Technology artifacts convey information beyond
simple existence, and I would encourage anyone to explore that
information!  Now if one is keeping a database of museum artifacts, I would
certainly note the original condition in that database, to serve as
evidence that the artifact is almost certainly complete (i.e. no pages were
removed or added).  Then I'd open it up so it can be read!

But keep in mind that I am of the opinion that vintage systems should be,
to the extent possible, restored to running condition *and run*.  :-)

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Free HP 3000 Equipment for removal (Denver Craigslist)

[Ian S. King]

Cool, glad someone's snagging it.  I wish, but I don't know where I'd put
it.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 2:34 PM, CuriousMarc  wrote:

> I'm on it...
> Marc
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Glen
> Slick
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:38 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Free HP 3000 Equipment for removal (Denver Craigslist)
>
> Someone go get this.
>
> posted: 2016-01-04 12:20pm
>
> http://denver.craigslist.org/sys/5387506164.html
>
> I have the following HP 3000 computer equipment in my basement yours FREE
> for removal
>
> QTY Description
> -
> --
> 2 HP 3000 series 30 Computers
> 4 HP 7925 disk drives
> 1 HP 2608A line printer
> 1 HP 7970E tape drive
> 2 HP 3000 Console Terminals
> 3 HP 2645A terminals
> 2 HP 2631A terminal printers
>
> The picture shown is of 3 disk drives and the Tape drive when new (1980).
> This equipment has been mostly idle for 20+ years. The first 4 line items
> of equipment above are relatively large and would require at least 2 men to
> remove each item from my basement.
>
>


-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[Evan Koblentz]

So I have a question for people who are involved in museums, and similar
roles - how intense should I be about keeping things just as they were?


There are a few things to consider. For example:

1. How rare/valuable is the item?
2. What else might be inside the package?
3. Will opening it cause any damage?
4. Can you store it in a suitable way after opening?

A DEC product guide isn't very rare.

One time, my group had an unopened box from a famous computer company. 
We decided to open it. It contained a far more precious artifact than we 
expected. Had we not opened it, we wouldn't have known what we had!


You can always put the guide into a Zip-Lock bag or whatever.

So I'd say open it.

Re: Wanted: Specific Mallory cap...

[wulfman]

   supply a picture if you can

On 1/6/2016 10:52 AM, Bill Sudbrink wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am in the process of restoring/recreating a linear
> PS as part of a project and I would like to use the
> original parts if possible.  I'm looking for six
> Mallory axial electrolytic capacitors.  The physical
> dimensions are 11mm in diameter by 44mm in length.
> They have a clear plastic wrap, so the aluminum
> silver color shows through.  The printing on them
> goes around the circumference (not end to end) and
> reads:
>
>+-M-+
> 2000 MF 10 V
>  20-48923
>
> Electrically, they are (were) 2000uf, 10 volt.  My
> bet is that these are mil-spec versions of Mallory's
> TT10X2000 capacitor.  They physically match some
> Mallory TT15X1000 caps that I have in my parts box.
> I've been "beating the bushes" for a while now with
> no luck on the "20-48923" part number.  I've also
> contacted all of the web site owners that claim to
> have TT10X2000s.  They have all come back with "well,
> we don't actually seem to have that part after all".
>
> If anyone has either of the above, I'll pay a good
> price for them.  They don't have to be in operational
> condition electronically, I'll "restuff" them if
> necessary.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Sudbrink
>
>
>


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RE: Wanted: Specific Mallory cap...

[Cindy Croxton]

http://5970.iso-group.com/Public/Search_Results.aspx?ss=10X2000

There are in stock here, according to their site.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill
Sudbrink
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 11:52 AM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: Wanted: Specific Mallory cap...

Hi all,

I am in the process of restoring/recreating a linear PS as part of a project
and I would like to use the original parts if possible.  I'm looking for six
Mallory axial electrolytic capacitors.  The physical dimensions are 11mm in
diameter by 44mm in length.
They have a clear plastic wrap, so the aluminum silver color shows through.
The printing on them goes around the circumference (not end to end) and
reads:

   +-M-+
2000 MF 10 V
 20-48923

Electrically, they are (were) 2000uf, 10 volt.  My bet is that these are
mil-spec versions of Mallory's
TT10X2000 capacitor.  They physically match some Mallory TT15X1000 caps that
I have in my parts box.
I've been "beating the bushes" for a while now with no luck on the
"20-48923" part number.  I've also contacted all of the web site owners that
claim to have TT10X2000s.  They have all come back with "well, we don't
actually seem to have that part after all".

If anyone has either of the above, I'll pay a good price for them.  They
don't have to be in operational condition electronically, I'll "restuff"
them if necessary.

Thanks,
Bill Sudbrink




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

RE: Wanted: Specific Mallory cap...

[Bill Sudbrink]

Cindy Croxton wrote:
> http://5970.iso-group.com/Public/Search_Results.aspx?ss=10X2000
> 
> There are in stock here, according to their site.

Unfortunately, been there, done that, didn't even get the T-Shirt.
Their email reply is all graphic'd up so I can't easily quote it,
but in the middle of the quotation sheet, is the text
"SORRY, NO STOCK".  If you have an inside contact there (assuming
they didn't want to sell to me due to the small nature of the order)
and can buy them, I'll double your money.

Bill S.

RE: Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[tony duell]

>
> So I have a question for people who are involved in museums, and similar
> roles - how intense should I be about keeping things just as they were?

Well, I don't fit into that category, but I'll give my tuppence-worth.

> I have a DEC manual (actually a Products Guide) still in its original
> shrink-wrap, and I'm interested in hearing opinions/rationales on whether or

I know the feeling... About 25 years ago I managed to buy a shrink-rapped
rare HP manual at a user group sale (actually the HP71 service manual). I amazed
everyone there by immediately ripping off the shrink wrap. People told me that 
I 
had lost significant value by so doing. My reply was simple : 'I bought this 
manual
to learn how to repair HP71 calculators. Not to look nice on the shelf. The 
value to me
is the information it contains.'

I guess if you have multiple copies of the same manual, or it's available on 
line and
you don't mind reading it that way (personally I much prefer a paper manual) 
then there
is no reason to open it. Otherwise, I say that a manual is there to be read.

But then again I feel that old computers should run, even if it means putting 
replacement
parts in. 

-tony

Re: Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[Fred Cisin]

On Wed, 6 Jan 2016, Evan Koblentz wrote:

You can always put the guide into a Zip-Lock bag or whatever.
So I'd say open it.


OTOH, if you want to SELL it, "original shrink wrap" provides an assurance 
to somebody who doesn't know you, that the contents are all there and 
undamaged - no pages missing, etc.

Re: VCF East -- Brian Kernighan video

[Jacob Ritorto]

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:08 PM, Evan Koblentz  wrote:

> You know you wanna watch. :)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUWt_StXKsY
>

excellent!  now I have to try sam.

Re: Phone service; was; 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Chuck Guzis]

Today, while on on my walk, I ran into my favorite two Century Link 
techs at the lcoal DSLAM.  When you see just one guy, maybe he's 
installing subscriber service, but two trucks generally means 
something's afoot.


All the cabinets were open and there were various bits of gear scattered 
around.  So I took the time to ask the guys about ATM vs. IP and got an 
interesting answer.


It seems that the stuff in the boxes is part IP and part ATM--and 
they're having a devil of a time figuring out how to interface the two. 
 Essentially the new IP stuff and the fiber are hooked up, but not 
servicing any subscribers--everyone is still running off the buried 
cable and ATM--and as the rainy season is upon us, this is proving to be 
problematical.  Apparently, among other problems, it's getting difficult 
to find ATM gear anymore.


They did apologize for the false "Real Soon Nows".

So, maybe, if I live long enough, one of these days...

--Chuck

Re: Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Evan Koblentz

> 1. How rare/valuable is the item?

Moderately rare, not very valuable.

> 2. What else might be inside the package?

Nothing - it's clear shrink-wrap around a loose-leaf manual.

> 3. Will opening it cause any damage?

No.

> 4. Can you store it in a suitable way after opening?

If I open it, I plan to store it in an original DEC three-ring binder.. :-)


> From: Fred Cisin

> OTOH, if you want to SELL it

When it comes to me and PDP-11 stuff, 'cold dead hands'! :-)

Noel

AlphaStation 200 NVRAM Problem

[Robert Jarratt]

I tried starting up my AlphaStation 200 today. All I get is some beeps and
an LED diagnostic code that suggests the NVRAM test failed. I swapped the
battery, as the old one was dead, but it still refused to work. I have tried
connecting to the serial port and got nothing (although I could have a
problem with using the correct cable etc). I even tried flipping the jumper
that takes you to the mini console, to no avail.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions for reviving this machine?

 

Thanks

 

Rob

Re: AlphaStation 200 NVRAM Problem

[Peter Coghlan]

>
> I tried starting up my AlphaStation 200 today. All I get is some beeps and
> an LED diagnostic code that suggests the NVRAM test failed. I swapped the
> battery, as the old one was dead, but it still refused to work. I have tried
> connecting to the serial port and got nothing (although I could have a
> problem with using the correct cable etc). I even tried flipping the jumper
> that takes you to the mini console, to no avail.
>
> 
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for reviving this machine?
>

I don't know if it applies to the AlphaStation 200 but I have a PWS 500a which
defaults back to the AlphaBios firmware whenever the battery dies.  After
replacing the battery, I have to connect a keyboard and monitor and go through
the AlphaBios menus to reset it to SRM.  (If I don't replace the battery, it
lets me go through the motions of resetting it but it never starts SRM.)

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

Re: Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[Ian S. King]

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Noel Chiappa 
wrote:

>
>
>
> > From: Fred Cisin
>
> > OTOH, if you want to SELL it
>
> When it comes to me and PDP-11 stuff, 'cold dead hands'! :-)
>
> Noel
>

Implicit in the "involved in museums" domain: artifacts come in, they don't
go back out except on loan.  :-)

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

RE: AlphaStation 200 NVRAM Problem

[Robert Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> Coghlan
> Sent: 06 January 2016 21:39
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 NVRAM Problem
> 
> >
> > I tried starting up my AlphaStation 200 today. All I get is some beeps
> > and an LED diagnostic code that suggests the NVRAM test failed. I
> > swapped the battery, as the old one was dead, but it still refused to
> > work. I have tried connecting to the serial port and got nothing
> > (although I could have a problem with using the correct cable etc). I
> > even tried flipping the jumper that takes you to the mini console, to no
> avail.
> >
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for reviving this machine?
> >
> 
> I don't know if it applies to the AlphaStation 200 but I have a PWS 500a
which
> defaults back to the AlphaBios firmware whenever the battery dies.  After
> replacing the battery, I have to connect a keyboard and monitor and go
> through the AlphaBios menus to reset it to SRM.  (If I don't replace the
> battery, it lets me go through the motions of resetting it but it never
starts
> SRM.)
> 

I believe this reversion back to AlphaBios does indeed apply to the
AlphaStation 200 too. But in my case nothing appears on the monitor and
nothing appears on the serial port either, I just get some beeps and a LED
diagnostic code. It is possible that I have a cabling issue with the serial
port, but I did try a few combinations. If I know that I should expect
output on the serial port despite an NVRAM self-test failure then I could
investigate that further with my breakout box (don't have a protocol
analyser).

Regards

Rob

Re: Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Ian S. King

> Implicit in the "involved in museums" domain: artifacts come in, they
> don't go back out except on loan. :-)

What, you've never heard of 'de-acquisitioning'? (Boy, that one sure wins the
George Orwell Memorial NewSpeak award...)

Noel

Re: Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[Ian S. King]

Yes, I have, but I try not to think about it - gotta keep the blood
pressure under control

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Noel Chiappa 
wrote:

> > From: Ian S. King
>
> > Implicit in the "involved in museums" domain: artifacts come in, they
> > don't go back out except on loan. :-)
>
> What, you've never heard of 'de-acquisitioning'? (Boy, that one sure wins
> the
> George Orwell Memorial NewSpeak award...)
>
> Noel
>



-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[William Donzelli]

The proper term is "deaccession".

--
Will

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> > From: Ian S. King
>
> > Implicit in the "involved in museums" domain: artifacts come in, they
> > don't go back out except on loan. :-)
>
> What, you've never heard of 'de-acquisitioning'? (Boy, that one sure wins the
> George Orwell Memorial NewSpeak award...)
>
> Noel

Re: Free HP 3000 Equipment for removal (Denver Craigslist)

[John Ball]

Marc, this is a good reason for anyone to convert their old rec room into a
machine room. Just make sure to paint the walls brown and fit wall-to-wall
orange carpeting. ;)

I was seriously tempted on this myself but even picking up ONE 7925 from
Idaho was an astounding task. A whole setup in Denver? That's nuts.

-John

>Cool, glad someone's snagging it.  I wish, but I don't know where I'd put
>it.
>
>On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 2:34 PM, CuriousMarc  wrote:
>
>> I'm on it...
>> Marc
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Glen
>> Slick
>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:38 PM
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>> Subject: Free HP 3000 Equipment for removal (Denver Craigslist)
>>
>> Someone go get this.
>>
>> posted: 2016-01-04 12:20pm
>>
>> http://denver.craigslist.org/sys/5387506164.html
>>
>> I have the following HP 3000 computer equipment in my basement yours FREE
>> for removal
>>
>>--TRIMMED--

Re: Free HP 3000 Equipment for removal (Denver Craigslist)

[ben]

On 1/6/2016 7:05 PM, John Ball wrote:

Marc, this is a good reason for anyone to convert their old rec room into a
machine room. Just make sure to paint the walls brown and fit wall-to-wall
orange carpeting. ;)


But where do you get the 2016 Line Printer Calender?

Re: Conservation issue - shrink-wrapped manual

[jwsmobile]

On 1/6/2016 5:42 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

The proper term is "deaccession".

--
Will

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:

 > From: Ian S. King

 > Implicit in the "involved in museums" domain: artifacts come in, they
 > don't go back out except on loan. :-)

What, you've never heard of 'de-acquisitioning'? (Boy, that one sure wins the
George Orwell Memorial NewSpeak award...)

 Noel
I think the condition issue applies if the artifact has some collectors 
value.  The museums will document how an artifact gets to them and 
though they probably don't want bugs crawling out of holes in the item, 
if it fits their collection at all they'll take it. Also the prior 
ownership / use might be of interest, so that will mean it probably 
isn't shrink wrapped.


Collectors of comics and books and such as baseball trading cards value 
the condition but I don't think such as chipped edges, folds, original 
shrink wrap matters that much.  If it was shrink wrapped and in some 
nice convenient cover or such then I'd want the copy with the cover, but 
shrink wrapped wouldn't matter much to me.


Evan makes the point of checking the artifact too, which you can't do 
with a shrink wrapped item.


The shrink wrap plastic may eventually deteriorate if you have the wrong 
stuff, so that might be a reason to unwrap it too.


Thanks
jim

Re: Free HP 3000 Equipment for removal (Denver Craigslist)

[Fred Cisin]

Marc, this is a good reason for anyone to convert their old rec room into a
machine room. Just make sure to paint the walls brown and fit wall-to-wall
orange carpeting. ;)


On Wed, 6 Jan 2016, ben wrote:

But where do you get the 2016 Line Printer Calender?


2016 has the same days of the week to date structure as 1988 and 1960.
Use those years.

Re: Free HP 3000 Equipment for removal (Denver Craigslist)

[Ethan Dicks]

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 9:14 PM, ben  wrote:

jp2a --width=76 snoopy.jpg | lpr
cal 2016 | lpr

Re: Free HP 3000 Equipment for removal (Denver Craigslist)

[Ethan Dicks]

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 9:14 PM, ben  wrote:
> But where do you get the 2016 Line Printer Calender?

jp2a --width=76 snoopy.jpg | lpr
cal 2016 | lpr

-ethan