RE: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Mike Ross]

I did and never got a reply... Could you ping him to check his spam folder,
or email me directly?

Thanks

Mike
On Dec 23, 2015 1:10 AM, "Alexandre Souza" 
wrote:

> His address is symphony.robot...@gmail.com. his name is Sergio. You can
> all
> talk directly to him.
>
> Enviado do meu Tele-Movel
> Em 22/12/2015 10:06, "Dave Wade"  escreveu:
>
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Santo
> > > Nucifora
> > > Sent: 22 December 2015 12:00
> > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > > 
> > > Subject: Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 6:55 AM, Alexandre Souza <
> > > alexandre.tabaj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > That is easy, it is fairly common here. I know of a friend who has
> > some.
> > > >
> > > > Enviado do meu Tele-Movel
> > > > Em 22/12/2015 09:51, "Mike Ross"  escreveu:
> > > >
> > > > > Do we have any South American correspondents listening in? I'm sure
> > > > > I read that IBM had a factory in Brazil producing these - and they
> > > > > kept on churning 3278s out for some considerable time after the
> rest
> > > > > of the world had moved on. I believe it was also stated that there
> > > > > was considerable redesign using more modern components inside that
> > > > > classic
> > > > > 3278 case on these later Brazilian examples. I'd certainly like to
> > > > > get hold of a couple.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'd be interested in one, after Mike who started the thread.  I am in
> > Canada.
> > > Email me off list.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Santo Nucifora
> >
> >
> > Well I have been looking for one in the UK with no luck. I have some
> > ICL/Nokia clones but not a real 3270
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
>

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[jwsmobile]

On 12/30/2015 11:45 PM, Mike Ross wrote:

Thanks for the thought... my main concern is the System/3s and Henk
Stegeman - who has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about
S/3! - says that 60Hz S/3 on 50Hz power is a no-go. Different voltage,
fine - transformer can be restrapped. Different frequency... trouble!

And then there are rotary machines of course. I bet you half my disks
drives need the right frequency or a spindle pulley change.. and even
then *they* probably have ferroresonants in their power...

Mike
Order a boatload of 8kw honda generators?  I think you could get 40 amps 
out of them.  Any reason the power has to be in phase?


I know for the mainframe power that might not be high enough, but on 
smaller machines it would take care of the problem.


thanks
JIm

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 6:37 PM, William Donzelli  wrote:

I bet you (or Mike, actually) could get it to work by trial and error,
swapping in caps. The transformers (generally) are apparently pretty
forgiving - being off in frequency just results in lost efficiency,
maybe 10-15 percent lost at most. Not flames, anyway.

--
Will

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:30 AM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:


On 12/30/15 9:29 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

Of course! Find the exception that proves the rule!


;-)  However, it would've been nice if it were only necessary to change
the capacitor!

TTFN - Guy


--
Will

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:


On 12/30/15 9:06 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

Sorry about digging up a slightly stale thread...


I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
- all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.

...but straight from the horses mouth, most IBM ferroresonant
transformers will work at 50 or 60 Hz. The capacitor may need to be
swapped, depending on the equipment.

I was hanging around some IBM old timers this evening, including the
Big Horse at Endicott.


I just looked up the FE manual for the 3278 and it shows 5 different part
numbers for the
ferroresonant transformer (depending upon region) and only a single part
number for the
capacitor.

TTFN - Guy

Targeting Computers in X wing fighters.

[Rod Smallwood]

Hi
 Went to Starwars last night. Oh boy did they get it right this time!!
Look and feel of the original 1977 version. Really good new actors.

In a way it was like a retelling of history but in a completly new way.

The bombing runs up the trench used the same sighting system as thirty 
odd years ago.


Added to that several scenes  were filmed at the former US Airbase at 
Greenham Common.
Its a mile from where I live and I passed within 50yards of where the 
filming took place on my way to the cinema.
The bunkers are in a natural hollow in the ground and surrounded by 
triple fences with watch towers.


In the film you can see the typical camoflarge netting in the back 
ground. - Nothing to do with the film.

They were trying to hide the set from passing aircraft.

They managed to keep it a secret until one day a guy was passing  in his 
microlight and spotted the MF
(or at least most of it) parked  by the old cruise missile bunkers.. He 
was not a fan but his son was.


He calls his son up on his mobile and says:
  You know that spaceship you got for Christmas years ago. Well there's 
a big one at Greenham Common.
The answer is not repeatable here but he ended by saying I'm on my way 
to your landing strip - pick me up.
It was true and it made the local paper before Lucasfilm could do 
anything about it.


This Abrams guy really understood what people wanted.
Considering how unwell Carrie Fisher is she gave a really good performance.
She gets my special "The show must go on" award.

Disney must be so pleased and if I know them they will keep the faith.

Rod

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Mike Ross]

On Jan 1, 2016 12:05 AM, "jwsmobile"  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12/30/2015 11:45 PM, Mike Ross wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the thought... my main concern is the System/3s and Henk
>> Stegeman - who has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about
>> S/3! - says that 60Hz S/3 on 50Hz power is a no-go. Different voltage,
>> fine - transformer can be restrapped. Different frequency... trouble!
>>
>> And then there are rotary machines of course. I bet you half my disks
>> drives need the right frequency or a spindle pulley change.. and even
>> then *they* probably have ferroresonants in their power...
>>
>> Mike
>
> Order a boatload of 8kw honda generators?  I think you could get 40 amps
out of them.  Any reason the power has to be in phase?
>
> I know for the mainframe power that might not be high enough, but on
smaller machines it would take care of the problem.
>
> thanks
> JIm

Jim most of my 'interesting' machines - both S/3s, S/38, 1800, big disk
drives - do need three phase 60Hz. The 2741s, 3741, 5496, S/32, S/34, &
S/36 are single phase but almost certainly need 60Hz for power supplies
and/or disk drives

On the plus side all of the stuff I brought over from the UK will work fine
- includes pdp-15s, pdp-12s, KL & KS 10, and a bunch of RK05s with 50Hz
pulleys! They all take 240V 50Hz.

Mike

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Paul Berger]

On 2015-12-31 7:17 AM, Mike Ross wrote:

On Jan 1, 2016 12:05 AM, "jwsmobile"  wrote:



On 12/30/2015 11:45 PM, Mike Ross wrote:

Thanks for the thought... my main concern is the System/3s and Henk
Stegeman - who has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about
S/3! - says that 60Hz S/3 on 50Hz power is a no-go. Different voltage,
fine - transformer can be restrapped. Different frequency... trouble!

And then there are rotary machines of course. I bet you half my disks
drives need the right frequency or a spindle pulley change.. and even
then *they* probably have ferroresonants in their power...

Mike

Order a boatload of 8kw honda generators?  I think you could get 40 amps

out of them.  Any reason the power has to be in phase?

I know for the mainframe power that might not be high enough, but on

smaller machines it would take care of the problem.

thanks
JIm

Jim most of my 'interesting' machines - both S/3s, S/38, 1800, big disk
drives - do need three phase 60Hz. The 2741s, 3741, 5496, S/32, S/34, &
S/36 are single phase but almost certainly need 60Hz for power supplies
and/or disk drives

On the plus side all of the stuff I brought over from the UK will work fine
- includes pdp-15s, pdp-12s, KL & KS 10, and a bunch of RK05s with 50Hz
pulleys! They all take 240V 50Hz.

Mike
All of those IBM machines you listed will have resonant capacitors in 
the power supplies, and all have at least one synchronous motor inside, 
not to mention all of the AC fans inside the machines.


Paul.

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Mike Ross]

On Jan 1, 2016 1:34 AM, "Paul Berger"  wrote:
>
> On 2015-12-31 7:17 AM, Mike Ross wrote:
>>
>> On Jan 1, 2016 12:05 AM, "jwsmobile"  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/30/2015 11:45 PM, Mike Ross wrote:

 Thanks for the thought... my main concern is the System/3s and Henk
 Stegeman - who has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about
 S/3! - says that 60Hz S/3 on 50Hz power is a no-go. Different voltage,
 fine - transformer can be restrapped. Different frequency... trouble!

 And then there are rotary machines of course. I bet you half my disks
 drives need the right frequency or a spindle pulley change.. and even
 then *they* probably have ferroresonants in their power...

 Mike
>>>
>>> Order a boatload of 8kw honda generators?  I think you could get 40 amps
>>
>> out of them.  Any reason the power has to be in phase?
>>>
>>> I know for the mainframe power that might not be high enough, but on
>>
>> smaller machines it would take care of the problem.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> JIm
>>
>> Jim most of my 'interesting' machines - both S/3s, S/38, 1800, big disk
>> drives - do need three phase 60Hz. The 2741s, 3741, 5496, S/32, S/34, &
>> S/36 are single phase but almost certainly need 60Hz for power supplies
>> and/or disk drives
>>
>> On the plus side all of the stuff I brought over from the UK will work
fine
>> - includes pdp-15s, pdp-12s, KL & KS 10, and a bunch of RK05s with 50Hz
>> pulleys! They all take 240V 50Hz.
>>
>> Mike
>
> All of those IBM machines you listed will have resonant capacitors in the
power supplies, and all have at least one synchronous motor inside, not to
mention all of the AC fans inside the machines.
>
> Paul.

Yep. I was going through the 5410 parts lists on Bitsavers earlier; it even
lists different part numbers for the fans, 50Hz vs. 60Hz.

So it's frequency converter or bust. Anyone got any specific suggestions?
Someone earlier vaguely waved about the name 'Elgar'; any other suggestions
or advice based on experience??

Thanks!

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Geoff Oltmans]

Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 30, 2015, at 7:06 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
> 
> Talking with the techs working on the DSLAM near my house, this summer, all 
> said it was still ATM--and much of what went into the DSLAM was brand new.  
> So someone is still making ATM gear.

Not saying they don't know what they are talking about, but if it's brand new 
equipment, particularly vdsl then I find that hard to believe from what I've 
been exposed to. Vdsl does fallback to adsl mode for adsl modems in which case 
the dslam has to have an ATM interworking function, but the uplink to the dslam 
would still be Ethernet, fiber or copper. 

Did you happen to get a peek in the cabinet? 

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[William Donzelli]

I was reporting on the ferroresonants, and nothing else.

--
Will

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 7:33 AM, Paul Berger  wrote:
> On 2015-12-31 7:17 AM, Mike Ross wrote:
>>
>> On Jan 1, 2016 12:05 AM, "jwsmobile"  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/30/2015 11:45 PM, Mike Ross wrote:

 Thanks for the thought... my main concern is the System/3s and Henk
 Stegeman - who has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about
 S/3! - says that 60Hz S/3 on 50Hz power is a no-go. Different voltage,
 fine - transformer can be restrapped. Different frequency... trouble!

 And then there are rotary machines of course. I bet you half my disks
 drives need the right frequency or a spindle pulley change.. and even
 then *they* probably have ferroresonants in their power...

 Mike
>>>
>>> Order a boatload of 8kw honda generators?  I think you could get 40 amps
>>
>> out of them.  Any reason the power has to be in phase?
>>>
>>> I know for the mainframe power that might not be high enough, but on
>>
>> smaller machines it would take care of the problem.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> JIm
>>
>> Jim most of my 'interesting' machines - both S/3s, S/38, 1800, big disk
>> drives - do need three phase 60Hz. The 2741s, 3741, 5496, S/32, S/34, &
>> S/36 are single phase but almost certainly need 60Hz for power supplies
>> and/or disk drives
>>
>> On the plus side all of the stuff I brought over from the UK will work
>> fine
>> - includes pdp-15s, pdp-12s, KL & KS 10, and a bunch of RK05s with 50Hz
>> pulleys! They all take 240V 50Hz.
>>
>> Mike
>
> All of those IBM machines you listed will have resonant capacitors in the
> power supplies, and all have at least one synchronous motor inside, not to
> mention all of the AC fans inside the machines.
>
> Paul.

Re: Telecom woes (was: Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes)

[Chris Elmquist]

On Thursday (12/31/2015 at 12:02AM -0600), Jim Brain wrote:
> On 12/30/2015 10:51 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
> >We're at least 2.5 miles from the DSLAM, so DSL is *not* an
> >option. That's the distance on the private roads and I haven't
> >seen where the DSLAM might be (nearest town is 5 miles away once
> >you get to the "public" roads).
> We're in a similar boat.  We're too far away for DSL, microwave
> can't reach us due to the treeline, and Cable isn't available here.
> I took a page from FullTime RV folks, and bought a commercial grade
> router/AP that uses cellular modems for uplink, and then found a
> business cellular package that has unlimited use.  We burn through
> 400GB every month here.

I build those kinds of routers for my day job.  It's pretty much
routine now to see 50Mbps up and down on a 4G LTE link.   CAT4 will do
even better.  I have a little box running OpenWRT (totally open source)
with the cellular modem inside and ethernet out the back.  Does what a
cable modem+router or DSL modem+router does but does it over cellular.

As you have discovered though, finding an affordable package is the trick.
My world is IoT/M2M and so there is a lot of bundling and pooling of
plans going on to reduce the per user costs in that space.

Chris
-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: The KGB, the Computer, and Me

[Mouse]

> [...] industrial espionage [...]
> One wonders how much goes undetected.
> Most of those getting caught are in upper management.  Us lowly
> grunts don't seem to get involved as often or maybe there are those
> among us that are just that much better at covering our tracks.

Or, when a low-level peon is caught, it doesn't make the news, so the
world at large doesn't notice.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Old versions of 2.11BSD

[Jacob Goense]

Over at TUHS an attempt to put the history of 2.11BSD under version
control (git) stranded somewhat.

After some digging the patchlevels that can be found in the archives
are now 195, 277, 303 and 431. The base 2.11BSD is sorely missing.

The numbered updates by Steven M. Schultz are not pure context diffs.
eg. an attempt to reverse them breaks where ld.c is removed in update
#160 and can't be pieced back together accurately using 2.10xBSD and
assorted patches.

Maybe someone here who missed the thread on the TUHS mailing list has
a really old copy of 2.11BSD lying around?

/Jacob

RE: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Dave G4UGM]

> >
> > Paul.
> 
> Yep. I was going through the 5410 parts lists on Bitsavers earlier; it even 
> lists
> different part numbers for the fans, 50Hz vs. 60Hz.
> 
> So it's frequency converter or bust. Anyone got any specific suggestions?
> Someone earlier vaguely waved about the name 'Elgar'; any other
> suggestions or advice based on experience??
> 
> Thanks!

When  wanted to go the other way, and I still need to go the other way for my 
Documation Card Reader, someone suggested getting a UPS with the appropriate 
output but with multiple inputs and using that to run the system

Dave

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Chuck Guzis]

On 12/31/2015 05:27 AM, Geoff Oltmans wrote:


Not saying they don't know what they are talking about, but if it's
brand new equipment, particularly vdsl then I find that hard to
believe from what I've been exposed to. Vdsl does fallback to adsl
mode for adsl modems in which case the dslam has to have an ATM
interworking function, but the uplink to the dslam would still be
Ethernet, fiber or copper.

Did you happen to get a peek in the cabinet?


Several times.  When the weather improves and they start working again, 
I'll corral a tech and ask him to open one up for photos.  They're great 
guys to a man/womam.  It's a big cabinet--perhaps 10-12 feed long. 
There are smaller cabinets there too, but they're mostly filled with wire.


What surprises me is the age of the customer copper. Folks around here 
feed from individual pedestals on the road, using 5-pair buried cable 
that's probably 30 or more years old to the residence.  When the local 
REC (rural electrical cooperative) came through about 5 years ago to 
replace the buried individual 12KV customer feeds, it would have been a 
golden opportunity to bury new customer lines, sadly ignored.  So while 
my electrical goes along the driveway from the disconnect on the road to 
the transformer in my yard, the telco buried wire wanders across the 
property among the trees until it finally enters the house.


During the BBS era, all of those 5 pairs saw use.  Not so today.

--Chuck

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

>
> Several times.  When the weather improves and they start working again,
> I'll corral a tech and ask him to open one up for photos.  They're great
> guys to a man/womam.  It's a big cabinet--perhaps 10-12 feed long. There
> are smaller cabinets there too, but they're mostly filled with wire.
>
> What surprises me is the age of the customer copper. Folks around here
> feed from individual pedestals on the road, using 5-pair buried cable
> that's probably 30 or more years old to the residence.  When the local REC
> (rural electrical cooperative) came through about 5 years ago to replace
> the buried individual 12KV customer feeds, it would have been a golden
> opportunity to bury new customer lines, sadly ignored.  So while my
> electrical goes along the driveway from the disconnect on the road to the
> transformer in my yard, the telco buried wire wanders across the property
> among the trees until it finally enters the house.
>
>
There's a lot of pressure to reuse old copper. As you indicate, there's a
ton of it still in the ground and it's not easy in a lot of cases to dig it
up or replace, plus it's already invested in, wholesale replacement costs
money, and if you don't have to, why bother? In multi-unit housing, it may
not be economically feasible or practical to retrofit the building to use
anything but the existing wiring. As a result, you see a lot of
fiber-to-the-node installations or fiber-to-the-distribution-point,
particularly in established rural applications. The death of copper has
been preached since I started into this business. Back then copper's savior
was HDSL, and ever since there's been some other xDSL technology
improvements to squeeze more out of the existing copper plant.

So, I'd say realistically you're likely to see copper for a good while
longer, but it is getting pushed farther and farther to the edges of the
networks. I'm happy for it to stick around for as long as possible. :)
Eventually xPON will supplant it, and the Cable company and Telco networks
will look virtually identical.

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

I should note too that more "forward looking" approaches such as in
Australia with NBN Co have re-evaluated their wholesale approach at a
fiber-only deployment to also include some copper deployments, due to cost
pressures.

Copper (Was: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Fred Cisin]

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015, Geoffrey Oltmans wrote:
The death of copper has been preached since I started into this 
business.


Almost half a century ago, there were attempts to use aluminium instead of 
copper for house wiring.  It did not go well.



"After having dug to a depth of 1,000 meters last year, French scientists 
found traces of copper dating back 1,000 years and came to the 
conclusion that their ancestors had a telephone network all those 
centuries ago."
"Not to be outdone by the French, English scientists dug to a depth of 
2,000 meters and shortly after headlines in the U.K. newspapers read: 
"English archeologists have found traces of 2,000-year-old fiber-optic 
cable and have concluded that their ancestors had an advanced high-tech 
digital communications network a thousand years earlier than the French."
"One week later, Scottish newspapers reported the following: "After 
digging as deep as 5,000 meters, scientists had found absolutely nothing. 
They, therefore, concluded that 5,000 years ago Scots were already using 
wireless technology."

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Chuck Guzis]

On 12/31/2015 09:40 AM, Geoffrey Oltmans wrote:



So, I'd say realistically you're likely to see copper for a good
while longer, but it is getting pushed farther and farther to the
edges of the networks. I'm happy for it to stick around for as long
as possible. :) Eventually xPON will supplant it, and the Cable
company and Telco networks will look virtually identical.


I've long thought that will eventually be the case.  It makes sense.

One thing that aerial fiber doesn't appear to suffer from is theft. 
It's not unknown for a bunch of guys to steal a half-mile of telco 
copper on a quiet rural road where nobody's likely to ask what they're 
doing.


The "stop and ask" is pretty prudent, as not all telco stuff around here 
is company-serviced--CL uses contractors extensively, so it's not always 
a company vehicle at the site.


The copper theft seems to have abated around here.  At its height, 
idiots were jumping the fences around 500KV substations to rip up the 
grounding grid.


--Chuck

paging Jack Rubin or Jason Timmons, Mike Lee, Chicago Folks

[william degnan]

Jack/Jason/Mike Lee, etc.

If you get a chance please contact me privately about a Chicago rescue.

Thanks 1mb

-- 
Bill

Re: Copper (Was: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

>
> Almost half a century ago, there were attempts to use aluminium instead of
> copper for house wiring.  It did not go well.
>

No, it didn't! We looked at several old houses back in 2012 before we
bought the house we're in now. Several of these houses were from the late
60's/early 70's and that concern was forefront in my mind with them. They
still sell special outlets and switches compatible with aluminum wiring in
the hardware stores.

Re: Copper (Was: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Paul Koning]

> On Dec 31, 2015, at 2:47 PM, Geoffrey Oltmans  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Almost half a century ago, there were attempts to use aluminium instead of
>> copper for house wiring.  It did not go well.
>> 
> 
> No, it didn't! We looked at several old houses back in 2012 before we
> bought the house we're in now. Several of these houses were from the late
> 60's/early 70's and that concern was forefront in my mind with them. They
> still sell special outlets and switches compatible with aluminum wiring in
> the hardware stores.

I haven't see aluminum-rated devices in hardware stores in many years.  Be 
careful: typically they will be labeled either as "copper only" or as "CU/AL".  
But that doesn't mean "copper or aluminum" -- it means you're allowed to user 
copper-clad aluminum.  That's a hack type of wire that was adopted for a while 
after the plain aluminum was discovered to be a Very Bad Idea.  It's not quite 
as bad but there is really no justification for its existence, and indeed it is 
no longer the current practice.  Copper-clad aluminum can be used with copper 
without much trouble, but the wire is thicker and it breaks more easily.

Plain aluminum must only be used with devices specifically rated for plain 
aluminum.  You may need to use anti-corrosion paste.  "devices" includes wire 
nuts -- standard copper-only wire nuts are not approved for use with aluminum 
wire.

My experience is that aluminum-rated devices and wire nuts can only be found at 
electric supply specialists, and they are vastly more expensive than regular 
devices.  When I used up my box of aluminum-rated wire nuts (standard hardware 
store item in 1980) I found that trying to buy them now (2005 or so) was 
possible but I'd have to pay a dollar EACH, if not more.

The only place where you're likely still to find aluminum-rated devices without 
a lot of effort is in high current stuff -- main breakers, 100 amp branch 
breakers, that sort of thing -- because aluminum cable is still used there at 
least by some people.  Personally, I never use it; 2 gauge copper may cost more 
but I prefer the peace of mind it delivers.

paul

Re: Copper (Was: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
> I haven't see aluminum-rated devices in hardware stores in many years.  Be
> careful: typically they will be labeled either as "copper only" or as
> "CU/AL".  But that doesn't mean "copper or aluminum" -- it means you're
> allowed to user copper-clad aluminum.  That's a hack type of wire that was
> adopted for a while after the plain aluminum was discovered to be a Very
> Bad Idea.  It's not quite as bad but there is really no justification for
> its existence, and indeed it is no longer the current practice.
> Copper-clad aluminum can be used with copper without much trouble, but the
> wire is thicker and it breaks more easily.
>

Hmm... if this is to be believed then you can use these for aluminum
wiring...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-15-Amp-Duplex-CO-ALR-Outlet-Ivory-R51-12650-00I/100357026

"CO/ALR switches and outlets are required anywhere aluminum wiring has been
installed."

Although I agree with you... I wouldn't want to knowingly sign up for a
house with aluminum wiring because improperly repairing the wiring could
result in just as much fire risk as if you didn't do any repairs at all.

Re: Copper (Was: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Paul Koning]

> On Dec 31, 2015, at 3:17 PM, Geoffrey Oltmans  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I haven't see aluminum-rated devices in hardware stores in many years.  Be
>> careful: typically they will be labeled either as "copper only" or as
>> "CU/AL".  But that doesn't mean "copper or aluminum" -- it means you're
>> allowed to user copper-clad aluminum.  That's a hack type of wire that was
>> adopted for a while after the plain aluminum was discovered to be a Very
>> Bad Idea.  It's not quite as bad but there is really no justification for
>> its existence, and indeed it is no longer the current practice.
>> Copper-clad aluminum can be used with copper without much trouble, but the
>> wire is thicker and it breaks more easily.
>> 
> 
> Hmm... if this is to be believed then you can use these for aluminum
> wiring...
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-15-Amp-Duplex-CO-ALR-Outlet-Ivory-R51-12650-00I/100357026
> 
> "CO/ALR switches and outlets are required anywhere aluminum wiring has been
> installed."

It sure sounds like it.  I'm impressed, especially at that price.

paul

Re: The KGB, the Computer, and Me

[Ken Seefried]

From: Mouse 

>> [...] industrial espionage [...]
>> One wonders how much goes undetected.
>> Most of those getting caught are in upper management.  Us lowly
>> grunts don't seem to get involved as often or maybe there are those
>> among us that are just that much better at covering our tracks.
>
>Or, when a low-level peon is caught, it doesn't make the news, so the
>world at large doesn't notice.
>

This is a big part of my world these days.  My wildly subjective,
overly general observations:

1) When a big fish is caught, it's usually an "I took a bunch of doco
I shouldn't have to my next job" situation.  I've discussed more
nefarious high-level mole scenarios with the FBI numerous times.  It
happens, but it's not apparently that common.

2) When a little fish is caught, it's usually some variation on "I'll
teach them".  And as Mouse notes, effort is usually made not to
publicize the event unless there's a regulatory driver that requires
it.  That said, there's a *huge* amount of little fish "espionage"
that flies under the radar.  Things like client lists, marketing plans
and confidential designs quietly walk out the door all the time and
are rarely noticed.  With these sorts of things, it's fiendishly
difficult to assess the impact on the victims business.

3) No one is particularly good at covering their tracks (including
people who in theory know how to do it).  Unfortunately, the tools to
proactively spot data exfiltration are rarely implemented and even
more rarely implemented well.  BTW...that's more an function of how
difficult the problem is rather than an indictment of the
practitioners.

KJ

Re: Copper (Was: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Chuck Guzis]

 > On Dec 31, 2015, at 3:17 PM, Geoffrey Oltmans  
wrote:



"CO/ALR switches and outlets are required anywhere aluminum wiring has been
installed."


I thought that the only approved method was using a hydraulic tool to 
crimp a copper pigtail onto aluminum.


My kitchen still has aluminum wiring for the stove and oven 
hookups--gray wire-nuts with goop inside., as does the laundry room 
drier  The heat pump and water heater similarly have aluminum wire, but 
there the runs are very short from the breaker box--perhaps 5 feet, so I 
don't worry too much about those.


I always wondered about how effective the gray nuts were...

Fortunately, the lighting and low-voltage circuits are all 12/3 copper. 
 I wired my shop outlets with 12/3 also, because copper prices were at 
a low then and the price difference between 14/3 and 12/3 was negligible..


--Chuck

[SPOILERS] Re: Targeting Computers in X wing fighters.

[Al Kossow]

On 12/31/15 3:10 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:

Hi
  Went to Starwars last night.


Thanks a lot.

I should have known better than to open a message with that subject.

Happy New Year

[Rik Bos]

To my most favorite 'off-topic list', all of you guys have a Happy and good new 
year.

>From the Netherlands as we say "Gelukkig Nieuwjaar".

-Rik

Re: Happy New Year

[Yvan Janssens]

Same from here, different accent and a time zone away  -  "ne gelukkige
nieuwjaar"!

Y.

On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 12:19 AM Rik Bos  wrote:

> To my most favorite 'off-topic list', all of you guys have a Happy and
> good new year.
>
> From the Netherlands as we say "Gelukkig Nieuwjaar".
>
> -Rik

Happy New Year

[Pete Turnbull]

A very Happy New Year to all the denizens of Classiccmp, and especially 
to Jay: thank you for another year of stewardship!


--
Pete

Happy New Year

[Murray McCullough]

There seems to be in this world a hungering for what’s new: witness
the gazillion smart phones sold; untold number of iPads(tablets) and
their ilk; and plug-n-play computers. What seems to be forgotten is
what came before; what interests us – vintage/classic computers.
Whether in the grand scheme of things it really matters whether we
call it classic computing, this website’s name protected by
copyright(internet ‘laws’), retro-computing; vintage computing;
golden-age computing or just plain old-computing era, nevertheless
helps us to immeasurably enjoy our hobby. And yet there is a hunger,
maybe less so for old computers as historical oddities don’t seem to
attract a large following, for what came before. The new year
hopefully expands our community: wishing all classic computer
enthusiasts a wonderful New Year’s and all your wishes come true in
2016.

Happy computing.

Murray  :)

Re: [SPOILERS] Re: Targeting Computers in X wing fighters.

[jwsmobile]

Some people are waiting for the nuts to quit filing theaters. Please 
don't discuss w/o a warning as Al placed on the line (or if someone else 
did, I've not gotten that message).


It is ill mannered at best.

Happy New Year,

don't mess up the movie for someone.

On 12/31/2015 1:09 PM, Al Kossow wrote:

On 12/31/15 3:10 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:

Hi
  Went to Starwars last night.


Thanks a lot.

I should have known better than to open a message with that subject.

Re: Happy New Year

[Chuck Guzis]

On 12/31/2015 04:39 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote:

A very Happy New Year to all the denizens of Classiccmp, and
especially to Jay: thank you for another year of stewardship!


Allow me to second both sentiments, particularly the second.

--Chuck

Re: [SPOILERS] Re: Targeting Computers in X wing fighters.

[Fred Cisin]

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015, jwsmobile wrote:
Some people are waiting for the nuts to quit filing theaters. Please don't 
discuss w/o a warning as Al placed on the line (or if someone else did, I've 
not gotten that message).

It is ill mannered at best.


OK
But, I probably won't see it for a few years, until it reaches TV.
Theater captioning is rarely adequate)

One quick [non-spoiler?] question:  Is it a remake?  Or is it another in 
the "series"?  (if so, earlier? later?)



I've seen some lousy remakes of good movies, and then the original is 
virtually never seen again.  OTOH, there have been SOME OK remakes that 
were better than mediocre movies they were based on.  I just wish that 
remakes would have some sort of designation in the title that makes the 
original and the remake differentiable by more than copyright date.

When is the "Casablanca" remake due out?

Re: Happy New Year

[drlegendre .]

HNY classiccmp! And a Big Thanks to Jay for another year of service to the
community! =P

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> On 12/31/2015 04:39 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote:
>
>> A very Happy New Year to all the denizens of Classiccmp, and
>> especially to Jay: thank you for another year of stewardship!
>>
>
> Allow me to second both sentiments, particularly the second.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [SPOILERS] Re: Targeting Computers in X wing fighters.

[Sean Conner]

It was thus said that the Great Fred Cisin once stated:
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015, jwsmobile wrote:
> >Some people are waiting for the nuts to quit filing theaters. Please don't 
> >discuss w/o a warning as Al placed on the line (or if someone else did, 
> >I've not gotten that message).
> >It is ill mannered at best.
> 
> OK
> But, I probably won't see it for a few years, until it reaches TV.
> Theater captioning is rarely adequate)
> 
> One quick [non-spoiler?] question:  Is it a remake?  Or is it another in 
> the "series"?  (if so, earlier? later?)

  Sequel, later in the series (30 years after the events in Return of the
Jedi).

  -spc (Amongst friends, all of whom are Star Wars fans, there are mixed
reviews ... )

Re: [SPOILERS] Re: Targeting Computers in X wing fighters.

[Brian L. Stuart]

On Thu, 12/31/15, Fred Cisin  wrote:
> One quick [non-spoiler?] question:  Is it a remake?  Or is it
> another in  the "series"?  (if so, earlier? later?)
 
It's in the series, specifically Episode 7, taking place sometime
after Revenge of the Jedi.

BLS

Re: Happy New Year

[Ian S. King]

I'll put it another way: praises to Jay for putting up with this bunch of
nut-jobs (self included).  :-)  Happy New Year to all, may you find a PDP-6
in your neighbor's barn.  -- Ian

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 7:16 PM, drlegendre .  wrote:

> HNY classiccmp! And a Big Thanks to Jay for another year of service to the
> community! =P
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
>
> > On 12/31/2015 04:39 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> >
> >> A very Happy New Year to all the denizens of Classiccmp, and
> >> especially to Jay: thank you for another year of stewardship!
> >>
> >
> > Allow me to second both sentiments, particularly the second.
> >
> > --Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>



-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Happy New Year

[Fred Cisin]

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015, Ian S. King wrote:

I'll put it another way: praises to Jay for putting up with this bunch of
nut-jobs (self included).  :-)  Happy New Year to all, may you find a PDP-6
in your neighbor's barn.  -- Ian


May the computer that your neighbor brings to you, have a full set of 
spares, manuals, schematics, software, and source code.

RE: Happy New Year

[Rick Bensene]

> I'll put it another way: praises to Jay for putting up with this bunch of 
> nut-jobs
> (self included).  :-)  Happy New Year to all, may you find a PDP-6 in your
> neighbor's barn.  -- Ian
> 

I echo Ian's sentiments -- Jay deserves so much praise all he does for the 
Classic Computer community.

While I'd love to find a PDP-6...I'd certainly settle for a KA-10.  Now /that/ 
would make for an amazing New Year.

Wishing all of the Classic Computer community health, peace, and great finds 
over the coming year.

-Rick

Re: [SPOILERS] Re: Targeting Computers in X wing fighters.

[Rod Smallwood]

On 01/01/2016 02:54, jwsmobile wrote:
Some people are waiting for the nuts to quit filing theaters. Please 
don't discuss w/o a warning as Al placed on the line (or if someone 
else did, I've not gotten that message).


It is ill mannered at best.

Happy New Year,

don't mess up the movie for someone.

On 12/31/2015 1:09 PM, Al Kossow wrote:

On 12/31/15 3:10 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:

Hi
  Went to Starwars last night.


Thanks a lot.

I should have known better than to open a message with that subject.






Ooops!
I'm in the UK and saw it at a half empty seniors showing.
Its been running here for two weeks. The whole thing 
has been sliced and diced in the press.
   If you feel a restriction is needed then unless a time 
period is stated then its a nonsense.



Rod