Re: KiCad Footprint ??

[Eric Smith]

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 6:29 PM, Don North  wrote:
> On 12/20/2015 5:02 AM, GerardCJAT wrote:
>> Speaking of KiCad 
>> Card edge connector ( fingers print ) , any contact count, BUT   pitch =
>> 3.96 mm

> That is pretty obscure, it is not like a standard IC footprint or connector.

That absolutely is a standard connector. It's more commonly referenced as
a .156 inch pitch edge connector.

> Better to learn now how to create your own footprints in the KiCAD symbol
> editor.

Good advice. I use Eagle and I almost always have to create or modify the
symbols and packages I need.

Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?

[Holm Tiffe]

Robert Jarratt wrote:

> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul
> > Koning
> > Sent: 20 December 2015 22:32
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > Subject: Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?
> > 
> > 
> > > On Dec 19, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Robert Jarratt
> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > ...
> > > I can't tell if this is a Kelvin connected one or not, although I
> > > suspect it probably is. You can see a picture with two here:
> > http://1drv.ms/1micVN7.
> > > These are from a second board in the PSU, but they look identical to
> > > the one on the problem board. It would appear to have 4 connections,
> > > but doesn't look anything like the only Kelvin connected one I could
> find.
> > 
> > It does look like a Kelvin hookup.  Yes, usually they are two fat and two
> > skinny connections, but so long as two connections carry the current while
> > the other two do not, it's valid.
> > 
> 
> Thanks Paul, I have been assuming that it is Kelvin connected for the time
> being.
> 
> I have no idea if the resistor is faulty or if the fault is in the detection
> logic. I am not entirely sure how to test it, and if it is faulty then
> finding a replacement may be hard. If it is the detection logic, then I am
> really in trouble because it is all SMD stuff, the board it is on appears to
> have multiple layers and I can barely make out the markings on the
> components, so I can't identify their type (resistor or capacitor) or value,
> and I have never desoldered/resoldered SMD before. There is an op amp and a
> comparator, which are easily identifiable, but there also appear to be some
> transistors, and although I can see the markings "A4H" I have been unable to
> identify what type they are, what the pinout is or if they are even
> transistors at all (but I think they must be). Pictures of the logic board
> here: http://1drv.ms/1QT7641.
> 
> I also noticed another very low value resistor, 0.01R, which looks far more
> conventional (not kelvin connected for sure, it looks just like any ordinary
> resistor, only a bit chunkier), but sadly, it seems to measure fine using my
> ESR/Low Ohms meter, when measured in circuit.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rob

Just resolder the SMD Caps, they sometimes get a loose pad.
You see if that happened while resoldering.

Regards,

Holm

-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
  www.tsht.de, i...@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741

NCR 376 card punch

[E. Groenenberg]

So I saw this NCR376 card punch on the German Ebay and placed a bid,
getting it for Eur 1.50 (approx $1.75).

Last Saturday I picked it up near Frankfurt and brought it back home and
came with a small user manual (in German), 2 sheets of diagrams (need to
find a magnifier to read it properly) and about 500 unused cards.

There are a few small issues, the rubber rollers of the feeder are
melted, but apparently can be replaced using some heat shrink tube, the
rubber layer seems to be very thin.

Another issue are the transport rollers which moves the card from right
to left where the hopper is. Those are also melted but again seem to be
repairable.

Last issue is that when I press some keys on the keyboard, the card does
not advance, only some clicking noises from the backplane is heard.
The backplane consists of s series of relays on a few cards, and a number
of capacitors on a few other cards. (Yes, this card punch is driven
by a series of relays).

This unit is OEM-ed from JUKI (Juki-1300), a Japanese company who made it.

Although the machine is small (about 100 x 100 x 45 cm) is weights 100Kg.

Anybody know a source for other manuals of this machine? Googling for it
did not return much for it.

Ed
--
Ik email, dus ik besta.
BTC : 1J5fajt8ptyZ2V1YURj3YJZhe5j3fJVSHN
LTC : LP2WuEmYPbpWUBqMFGJfdm7pdHEW7fKvDz

DEC corporate cab side panel.

[Mattis Lind]

I have one side panel for a DEC corporate cabinet. It should fit VAX-11/780
or similar cabinets.

It is in good shape. Anyone need one? It is in Stockholm, Sweden. Also has
some other parts for the cabinet, like wheels and other steel parts.

/Mattis

RE: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?

[Robert Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Holm
Tiffe
> Sent: 21 December 2015 08:51
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?
> 
> Robert Jarratt wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> 
> Just resolder the SMD Caps, they sometimes get a loose pad.
> You see if that happened while resoldering.
> 

Shouldn't I be able to detect a loose component by pushing on it with a
small screwdriver or something? I suspect the caps are the darker coloured
(orange) ones, but I am not sure, is that right?

Thanks

Rob

dumping Western Digital Microms (PDP-11, WD16, Pascal Microengine)

[Eric Smith]

The DEC LSI-11, Western Digital WD16 (as used in the Alpha Micro
AM100), and Western Digital Pascal Microengine use variations of the
same chipset, called CP1600 for the LSI-11 and WD16, and WD9000 for
the Pacal Microengine.

The chipset consists of a control chip, a data path chip, and two to
four microcode ROMs, of 512 words of 22 bits each, known as
"Microms".

I built an apparatus on a breadboard to dump the contents of Microms,
using a PIC and a quad gate driver to produce the four-phase 12V
clock, three 74HCT163 four-bit counters and two 74HCT245 buffers to
drive the address onto the microinstruction bus, and a 74HCT4050 and
74HCT04 to level shift the MOS phase 2 clock back to 5V and invert it,
to enable the 74HCT245 buffers.

Photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/22368471@N04/albums/72157662054690240

The apparatus cycles through the entire 2 kibiword address space
continuously. An HP 16701A logic analyzer with 16557D state/timing
card is attached to capture the addresses and data.

Because the microinstruction bus is active low, the addresses are
driven in reverse sequence, and the microinstructions captured on the
logic analyzer are inverted.

So far I have dumped the following LSI-11 Microms:

3010D, DEC P/N 23-001B5 (also designated CP1631-10) - addr 0x000-0x1ff
3007D, DEC P/N 23-002B5 (also designated CP1631-07) - addr 0x200-0x3ff

So far I have dumped the following Pascal Microengine Microms:

WD2171-10 - addr 0x000-0x1ff
WD2171-12 - addr 0x200-0x3ff
WD2171-13 - addr 0x400-0x5ff

WD2171-14 - addr 0x000-0x1ff
WD2171-15 - addr 0x200-0x3ff
WD2171-17 - addr 0x400-0x5ff
WD2171-18 - addr 0x400-0x5ff

There exists at least one other Pascal Microengine Microm which I
don't have, the WD2171-16. I expect that it probably occupies addr
0x400-0x5ff.

I have not yet dumped the WD16 Microms as I do not have an AM100 CPU
board at hand.

My next challenge is exporting the data from the 16701A to anything
else. The 16701A used to work fine on my Ethernet, but for mysterious
reasons it now claims that the network can't be accessed, despite that
plugging a laptop into the same Ethernet cable works fine.

I'll need to write a small Python script to post-process the output,
for use with my disassembler (also in Python).

Note that dumping the Microm contents is only part of the problem; the
control chip also contains PLAs that can force microcode jumps under
various conditions despite there being no corresponding jump
instruction in the Microms. This is used for macroinstruction decode,
and possibly for other purposes.

Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2015-Dec-21, at 1:14 AM, Robert Jarratt wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Holm
> Tiffe
>> Sent: 21 December 2015 08:51
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>> Subject: Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?
>> 
>> Robert Jarratt wrote:
>> 
>> Just resolder the SMD Caps, they sometimes get a loose pad.
>> You see if that happened while resoldering.
>> 
> 
> Shouldn't I be able to detect a loose component by pushing on it with a
> small screwdriver or something? I suspect the caps are the darker coloured
> (orange) ones, but I am not sure, is that right?

The lighter-beige ones, some of which are wider, are likely caps, for example 
the one beside the 34072 dual op amp looks to be a simple power decoupling cap 
(across  the IC power pins).
The reddish-brown units with 4-digit numbers are resistors: 3 sig figs & zeroes 
multiplier, e.g. 1002 = 10,000 ohms, 1330 = 133 ohms, 1181 = 1180 ohms.
The unmarked(?) 'redder' ones I expect are resistors, for example the one above 
the "di" in "digital" looks like the feedback gain control resistor for the op 
amp, although in other places that would make 4 resistors in parallel which is 
unusual. 
Resistors can generally be identified with a multimeter, if you can come up 
with the same value when swapping the multimeter leads (polarity) and stepping 
through the multimeter ohm ranges you've probably got the resistance - making 
the multiple measurements to identify non-linear responses to eliminate 
conductivity readings from semiconductor junctions.

There looks to be two very similar networks around the two op amps in the 
34072. It wouldn't really be that difficult a board to RE, although it does 
look like some poking around with a multimeter for continuity will be necessary 
to track internal traces, but they look to be relatively limited in number.

RE: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?

[Robert Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brent
> Hilpert
> Sent: 21 December 2015 10:12
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?
> 
> The lighter-beige ones, some of which are wider, are likely caps, for
example
> the one beside the 34072 dual op amp looks to be a simple power decoupling
> cap (across  the IC power pins).
> The reddish-brown units with 4-digit numbers are resistors: 3 sig figs &
> zeroes multiplier, e.g. 1002 = 10,000 ohms, 1330 = 133 ohms, 1181 = 1180
> ohms.
> The unmarked(?) 'redder' ones I expect are resistors, for example the one
> above the "di" in "digital" looks like the feedback gain control resistor
for the
> op amp, although in other places that would make 4 resistors in parallel
which
> is unusual.
> Resistors can generally be identified with a multimeter, if you can come
up
> with the same value when swapping the multimeter leads (polarity) and
> stepping through the multimeter ohm ranges you've probably got the
> resistance - making the multiple measurements to identify non-linear
> responses to eliminate conductivity readings from semiconductor junctions.
> 
> There looks to be two very similar networks around the two op amps in the
> 34072. It wouldn't really be that difficult a board to RE, although it
does look
> like some poking around with a multimeter for continuity will be necessary
to
> track internal traces, but they look to be relatively limited in number.

Many thanks. My first measurements with a multimeter had suggested to me
that the darker ones were the caps. Thanks for putting me right before
getting too far with the reverse engineering. The multi-layers mean I won't
necessarily know where there is a connection, I can deduce that there is one
where a through hole appears to go nowhere, but who knows what other
connections I might miss.

Any idea what an A4H and a 2FH are? They must be some kind of transistor,
but I am not sure what kind.

Regards

Rob

Anyone fancy a laugh?

[Adrian Graham]

Having typed that subject line I'm changing my attitude slightly:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ONE-OF-FEW-REMAINING-1ST-AVAILABLE-MICE-IN-THE-WORLD-1983-APPLE-LISA-MOUSE-/172035907806?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

Overblown salesmanship aside, technically I suppose they're right. Even
given Doug Engelbart's introduction in 1964 the mouse wasn't a massive
commercial success by 1983 was it.

Still a lot of cash though, and when I bought my Lisa in 2005 it came with
that rodent so I'll put it alongside my little collection of VSXXX
workstation mice as WOW*R@RE*L@@K* items :)

-- 
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: Anyone fancy a laugh?

[william degnan]

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Adrian Graham 
wrote:

> Having typed that subject line I'm changing my attitude slightly:
>
>
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ONE-OF-FEW-REMAINING-1ST-AVAILABLE-MICE-IN-THE-WORLD-1983-APPLE-LISA-MOUSE-/172035907806?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
>
> Overblown salesmanship aside, technically I suppose they're right. Even
> given Doug Engelbart's introduction in 1964 the mouse wasn't a massive
> commercial success by 1983 was it.
>
> Still a lot of cash though, and when I bought my Lisa in 2005 it came with
> that rodent so I'll put it alongside my little collection of VSXXX
> workstation mice as WOW*R@RE*L@@K* items :)
>
> --
>
>
Believe it or not a Lisa mouse simlar to this has sold for even more.
Crazy.


-- 
Bill

Re: Anyone fancy a laugh?

[Jules Richardson]

On 12/21/2015 07:40 AM, Adrian Graham wrote:

Having typed that subject line I'm changing my attitude slightly


Can someone ask if those are Steve Jobs' dead skin cells still stuck to the 
front pads?

Re: dumping Western Digital Microms (PDP-11, WD16, Pascal Microengine)

[Glen Slick]

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 1:26 AM, Eric Smith  wrote:
>
> My next challenge is exporting the data from the 16701A to anything
> else. The 16701A used to work fine on my Ethernet, but for mysterious
> reasons it now claims that the network can't be accessed, despite that
> plugging a laptop into the same Ethernet cable works fine.
>

I think you meant 16702A here as the 16701A is the expansion
mainframe. Assuming you are using 10BT for the network connection, do
you have the terminator cap installed on the 10B2 BNC jack? I think
some things don't work right with the 16700A/16702A network without
that terminator cap installed.

Re: Anyone fancy a laugh?

[Ian S. King]

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Jules Richardson <
jules.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12/21/2015 07:40 AM, Adrian Graham wrote:
>
>> Having typed that subject line I'm changing my attitude slightly
>>
>
> Can someone ask if those are Steve Jobs' dead skin cells still stuck to
> the front pads?
>
>
>
>
Two words: Xerox Alto.  It was never a "massive commercial success" but
then, it wasn't designed or intended to be such.  But it incorporated a
mouse ten years before the Lisa's introduction.  There were things you just
couldn't do without the mouse, either (for example, using the Neptune file
manager, or the all-important task of playing pool).  -- Ian

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: dumping Western Digital Microms (PDP-11, WD16, Pascal Microengine)

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Eric Smith

> So far I have dumped the following LSI-11 Microms:
>
> 3010D, DEC P/N 23-001B5 (also designated CP1631-10) - addr 0x000-0x1ff
> 3007D, DEC P/N 23-002B5 (also designated CP1631-07) - addr 0x200-0x3ff

Excellent work!

I was going to point out that there is another uROM (KEV11) for the LSI-11,
for the EIS/FIS, and also that there is some variation in the numbers of
the uROM chips, but along the way, I ran into a puzzle.

DEC documentation differs on the location of the two uROM's in the LSI-11/2
(KD11-HA, M7270): the 'Microcomputer Products Handbook' gives the order (from
the handle end) as KEV11, uROM 1, uROM 0, Control, Data Path; the print set
for the KD11-HA gives KEV11, Control, uROM 1, uROM 0, Data Path!

>From which I conclude that either: i) one of the documents, perhaps the
Handbook, is wrong, or ii) the 'Control' chip must also be a uROM, and that
there is some variation in how the 3 chips can be plugged in?

Here is more data from a couple of boards I have access to (from the handle
end):

- 2007C 23-002C4, 3010A 23-001B5, 3007D 23-002B5
- 2007C 23-002C4, 3010D 23-001B5, 3007D 23-007B5
- 2007C 23-003C4, 3010D 23-008B5, 3007D 23-007B5

Anyone know what's up here? 

Getting back to the KEV11, the one I have seen is a 3015 23-003B5.


> the control chip also contains PLAs that can force microcode jumps under
> various conditions despite there being no corresponding jump instruction 
in
> the Microms.

Hmm. Any idea/way to read them out?

Noel

Re: dumping Western Digital Microms (PDP-11, WD16, Pascal Microengine)

[Noel Chiappa]

> DEC documentation differs on the location of the two uROM's in the
> LSI-11/2 (KD11-HA, M7270): the 'Microcomputer Products Handbook' gives
> the order (from the handle end) as KEV11, uROM 1, uROM 0, Control, Data
> Path ...
> From which I conclude that either: i) one of the documents, perhaps the
> Handbook, is wrong, or ii) the 'Control' chip must also be a uROM, and
> that there is some variation in how the 3 chips can be plugged in?
> Anyone know what's up here?

To answer my own post, I looked at the prints (should have done this before I
posted, sigh), and there is no way it can be ii). The Control chip has a
bunch of discrete signals on pins where the uROM's have micro-instruction bus
pins. So there's no way you can swap them around.

So the 'Microcomputer Products Handbook' diagram (pg. C-18) has to be wrong.

Noel

Re: dumping Western Digital Microms (PDP-11, WD16, Pascal Microengine)

[Eric Smith]

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Glen Slick  wrote:
> I think you meant 16702A here as the 16701A is the expansion
> mainframe.

You're correct. 16702A.

> Assuming you are using 10BT for the network connection, do
> you have the terminator cap installed on the 10B2 BNC jack? I think
> some things don't work right with the 16700A/16702A network without
> that terminator cap installed.

Thanks for the suggestion!

There's a black cap over the 10base2 connector, which apparently has
never been removed. I just removed it, with surprising difficulty. I'll
scrounge a terminator and try again, though it wasn't necessary the
last time I used the 16702A on the Ethernet.

As HP-UX boots, it says something to the effect that the network was
disabled on the previous boot, but will be enabled. However, the logic
analyzer software says something to the effect that the network interface
isn't available, and the controls to change the network settings are all
greyed out.

It occurred to me that the analyzer might not successfully autonegotiate
on a port on a 1000baseT switch, so it's now plugged into a 100baseT
switch instead, but not working any better. I don't have a 10baseT switch
or hub at hand to try.

Re: dumping Western Digital Microms (PDP-11, WD16, Pascal Microengine)

[Eric Smith]

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> I was going to point out that there is another uROM (KEV11) for the LSI-11,
> for the EIS/FIS, and also that there is some variation in the numbers of
> the uROM chips, but along the way, I ran into a puzzle.

> - 2007C 23-003C4, 3010D 23-008B5, 3007D 23-007B5

The 23-007B5 and 23-008B5 apparently are multiple Microm variants for
the base instruction set. GIven that the WD numbers are still 3007D and
3010D, I'd expect these to be only packaging or minor electrical variants,
but it would still be nice to read a set for verification.

There are also two part numbers for hybrid Microms, with two Microms
packaged on one DIP carrier, DEC P/N 23-002B6 or 23-003B6.


> ii) the 'Control' chip must also be a uROM, and that
> there is some variation in how the 3 chips can be plugged in?

The control chip and data chip are not Microms, and MUST be plugged into
the correct socket.

The Microms all have the same pinout, and are wired completely in parallel,
so they can be interchanged.

In addition to the normal

> Getting back to the KEV11, the one I have seen is a 3015 23-003B5.

There are a number of variants. That is a KEV11-A EIS/FIS, suitable for
the M7270 quad module etch revisions E and F, and the M7264 dual.

Another version of the KEV11-A EIS/FIS, suitable for the M7270 quad
module etch revisions C and D, is the 23-091A5. I don't know the WD
part number.

The KEV11-B provides EIS without FIS, suitable for the M7270 quad
module etch revisions C and D, 23-090A5. I don't know the WD part
number.

The KEV11-C provides a subset of the CIS commercial instruction set,
sometimes known as DIS (DIBOL instruction set), using two Microms,
which are 23-004B5 and 23-005B5. I don't know the WD part numbers.
I suspect there is probably also a hybrid (single DIP carrier) version of
the KEV11-C, but I don't know the part number.

Re: dumping Western Digital Microms (PDP-11, WD16, Pascal Microengine)

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Eric Smith

> The control chip and data chip are not Microms, and MUST be plugged
> into the correct socket.

Yeah, as you saw, I eventually figured that out.

In part, along with the bad diagram, I was thrown by a combo of the fact that
i) the DEC part numbers for the control chip started with 23- (which seems to
be a ROM part indicator), unlike the data chip, which as a 21-1; and second,
the control chip is 23-002C4/23-003C4, which was so close to uROM numbers
like 23-002B5 and 23-003B3, it sounded like they were all uROM parts.

> There are a number of variants.

Thanks for all the additional data. I'll add it all to the LSI-11 page on the
he Computer History Wiki (seems as good a place as any to accumulate it).

Noel

Re: scan of IEEE-696 standard

[spereira1952]

Here is another scan from a different location: 

http://www.imsai.net/download/IEEE_696_1983.pdf 

I hope this may help. 

smp 

- Original Message -

Re: Anyone fancy a laugh?

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 7:40 AM, Adrian Graham 
wrote:

> Having typed that subject line I'm changing my attitude slightly:
>
>
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ONE-OF-FEW-REMAINING-1ST-AVAILABLE-MICE-IN-THE-WORLD-1983-APPLE-LISA-MOUSE-/172035907806?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276


That is an odd connector. I haven't seen the original Lisa mouse in an
auction before. I always seem to see the Mac style instead.

Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2015-Dec-21, at 3:10 AM, Robert Jarratt wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brent
>> Hilpert
>> Sent: 21 December 2015 10:12
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>> Subject: Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?
>> 
>> The lighter-beige ones, some of which are wider, are likely caps, for
> example
>> the one beside the 34072 dual op amp looks to be a simple power decoupling
>> cap (across  the IC power pins).
>> The reddish-brown units with 4-digit numbers are resistors: 3 sig figs &
>> zeroes multiplier, e.g. 1002 = 10,000 ohms, 1330 = 133 ohms, 1181 = 1180
>> ohms.
>> The unmarked(?) 'redder' ones I expect are resistors, for example the one
>> above the "di" in "digital" looks like the feedback gain control resistor
> for the
>> op amp, although in other places that would make 4 resistors in parallel
> which
>> is unusual.
>> Resistors can generally be identified with a multimeter, if you can come
> up
>> with the same value when swapping the multimeter leads (polarity) and
>> stepping through the multimeter ohm ranges you've probably got the
>> resistance - making the multiple measurements to identify non-linear
>> responses to eliminate conductivity readings from semiconductor junctions.
>> 
>> There looks to be two very similar networks around the two op amps in the
>> 34072. It wouldn't really be that difficult a board to RE, although it
> does look
>> like some poking around with a multimeter for continuity will be necessary
> to
>> track internal traces, but they look to be relatively limited in number.
> 
> Many thanks. My first measurements with a multimeter had suggested to me
> that the darker ones were the caps. Thanks for putting me right before
> getting too far with the reverse engineering. The multi-layers mean I won't
> necessarily know where there is a connection, I can deduce that there is one
> where a through hole appears to go nowhere, but who knows what other
> connections I might miss.
> 
> Any idea what an A4H and a 2FH are? They must be some kind of transistor,
> but I am not sure what kind.

SMD markings and packagings are ambiguous, unclear, and all over the spectrum.
Here's a good site for chasing SMD markings:
http://www.s-manuals.com/smd

REing boards like this is an iterative process with consideration of the device 
markings, pin use, measurements, what makes sense electronically, and design 
period.

In the two cases you mention it looks like the H's are a slightly different 
font or size and spaced slightly differently, I suspect the id codes there are 
A4 and 2F.

An initial guess for the "A4H" device that's right above the LM339 is an 
A4-code dual diode with only one diode used, as it looks (from the photo) like 
one pin is unconnected.
http://www.s-manuals.com/smd/a4

A good guess for the "2FH" devices are 2F-code PNP transistors:
http://www.s-manuals.com/smd/2f

Similarly, the "1PG" or  "1PC" device may be a 1P-code NPN transistor.

Diodes and transistors are best double-checked by first characterising your 
multimeter with PN junctions in known transistors or diodes so you know what 
ohms-range and what reading to expect on your MM when you have a PN junction in 
forward-conduction. Look for the lowest ohms range that will give you a reading 
for forward conduction. Then use that knowledge to check the SMD transistors 
and diodes for sensibility.

Some strategy:

- Sort out all the network connections for the board, by visual 
observation and continuity measurement.

- Identify the power supply pins to the board by chasing the power 
supply pins of the IC packages.
  This will include or begin with identifying the ground connection(s) 
to the board in part by chasing the
  ground from the main unit to the pins which this board plugs into.
  Is an internal layer on the board a ground plane?

-  From what I can discern it may be that the two ICs are supplied by 
+/- supplies, that is, the V- pin for the
  ICs may go to a negative supply rather than ground, so there may be 
ground(s), V- and V+ connections
  to the board, rather than just ground and V+.

- I'd suggest drawing the two op amps one above the other with a 
positive bus horizontally at the top of the page.
  If there is a negative supply draw a negative bus horizontally at the 
bottom of the page.
  Draw in the networks around the op amps, it looks like they are 
similar and feed into the 3 terminal device located to the upper-right of the 
LM339,
  and thence into one of the comparators. That should take care of a 
lot of the board, then do the remaining 3 comparators.

- within sensibility, try to draw everything so electron flow is 'up' 
the page, this means for example that PNP transistors
 will be drawn upside down, with the emitter at top-right, while NPNs 
will be conventional with e

Re: Anyone fancy a laugh?

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Adrian Graham

> Overblown salesmanship aside, technically I suppose they're right.

Well, I don't think so. According to Wikipedia (I know, I know), the Lisa was
released on January 19, 1983, but the Xerox Star (AKA Dandelion):

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star

was introduced in 1981, almost two years before. The Star was supposed to be
a commercial product version of the Alto, and although it had many issues, it
did have an advanced version of the graphic-based user interface that is now
universal - icons, etc, etc. And it had a mouse.

Noel

Re: Anyone fancy a laugh?

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Dec 21, 2015, at 12:54 , Geoffrey Oltmans  wrote:
> 
> That is an odd connector.

It's compatible with an ordinary 9-pin D-sub, but with a shell that latches 
onto ramps on the mating connector. Squeezing the shell releases the latch.


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Anyone fancy a laugh?

[dwight]

The Xerox wasn't a single button mouse.
That was patented by Jef Raskin while at Apple.
Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Mark J. Blair 

Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 2:39 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Anyone fancy a laugh?

> On Dec 21, 2015, at 12:54 , Geoffrey Oltmans  wrote:
>
> That is an odd connector.

It's compatible with an ordinary 9-pin D-sub, but with a shell that latches 
onto ramps on the mating connector. Squeezing the shell releases the latch.


--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Anyone fancy a laugh?

[Adrian Graham]

On 21/12/2015 22:34, "Noel Chiappa"  wrote:

>> From: Adrian Graham
> 
>> Overblown salesmanship aside, technically I suppose they're right.
> 
> Well, I don't think so. According to Wikipedia (I know, I know), the Lisa was
> released on January 19, 1983, but the Xerox Star (AKA Dandelion):

I think the seller is aiming for the 'this serial number is under 32,000
therefore it was one of the first 32,000 mice made and therefore PART OF
HISTORY' 
 
> was introduced in 1981, almost two years before. The Star was supposed to be
> a commercial product version of the Alto, and although it had many issues, it
> did have an advanced version of the graphic-based user interface that is now
> universal - icons, etc, etc. And it had a mouse.

Oh I know :) I wanted a Lisa as soon as I first saw the launch issue of
Personal Computer News over here in the UK. April '83 I think it was. Took
me 17 years and I obviously had to make do with a LisaII but hey...

http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/museum/apple/lisa/index.php
(my ISP has just changed my external IP address now that they're on DOCSIS-3
so that URL might not work straight away)

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Mike Ross]

I recently blew up a 3278... it worked ok for a few hours then started
blowing fuses.

I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
- all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.

1. Does anyone in a 50Hz country have any dead/spare 3278s and/or
transformers for them? The IBM part number for the 50Hz 220V are
8715343 or 4119686.

2. I have other equipment where this will be an issue and not so
easily solved. Does anyone have any experience in or recommendations
for frequency conversion equipment? My System/3s for instance all use
60Hz ferroresonants operating off 208V 3-phase - now voltage can
probably be retapped or easily converted but I still need to make a
lot of 60Hz to run them...

Thanks

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[William Donzelli]

In the long term, you should probably break down and get a good size
frequency converter.

--
Will

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Mike Ross  wrote:
> I recently blew up a 3278... it worked ok for a few hours then started
> blowing fuses.
>
> I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
> Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
> specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
> with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
> transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
> - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
> at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.
>
> 1. Does anyone in a 50Hz country have any dead/spare 3278s and/or
> transformers for them? The IBM part number for the 50Hz 220V are
> 8715343 or 4119686.
>
> 2. I have other equipment where this will be an issue and not so
> easily solved. Does anyone have any experience in or recommendations
> for frequency conversion equipment? My System/3s for instance all use
> 60Hz ferroresonants operating off 208V 3-phase - now voltage can
> probably be retapped or easily converted but I still need to make a
> lot of 60Hz to run them...
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> http://www.corestore.org
> 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
> Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
> For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Mike Ross]

Any recommendations for what type? Are solid-state devices up to the
job these days? I still remember rotary converters...

Mike

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, William Donzelli  wrote:
> In the long term, you should probably break down and get a good size
> frequency converter.
>
> --
> Will
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Mike Ross  wrote:
>> I recently blew up a 3278... it worked ok for a few hours then started
>> blowing fuses.
>>
>> I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
>> Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
>> specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
>> with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
>> transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
>> - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
>> at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.
>>
>> 1. Does anyone in a 50Hz country have any dead/spare 3278s and/or
>> transformers for them? The IBM part number for the 50Hz 220V are
>> 8715343 or 4119686.
>>
>> 2. I have other equipment where this will be an issue and not so
>> easily solved. Does anyone have any experience in or recommendations
>> for frequency conversion equipment? My System/3s for instance all use
>> 60Hz ferroresonants operating off 208V 3-phase - now voltage can
>> probably be retapped or easily converted but I still need to make a
>> lot of 60Hz to run them...
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> http://www.corestore.org
>> 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
>> Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
>> For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'



-- 

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[William Donzelli]

If you can get a rotary one, those are really nice - just wasteful and
loud. With proper maintenance they last forever, can take a beating,
and do not give waveshape issues that cheap solid state units can
have. And, maybe most importantly, you can make one yourself.

But considering the mix of 50 and 60 Hz stuff you likely have by now
(that is what you get for moving!), spending some decent money on a
real VFD might be worth it. I might think a cheap VFD may give
ferroresonant iron fits with all those extra harmonics.

--
Will

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:48 PM, Mike Ross  wrote:
> Any recommendations for what type? Are solid-state devices up to the
> job these days? I still remember rotary converters...
>
> Mike
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, William Donzelli  wrote:
>> In the long term, you should probably break down and get a good size
>> frequency converter.
>>
>> --
>> Will
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Mike Ross  wrote:
>>> I recently blew up a 3278... it worked ok for a few hours then started
>>> blowing fuses.
>>>
>>> I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
>>> Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
>>> specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
>>> with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
>>> transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
>>> - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
>>> at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.
>>>
>>> 1. Does anyone in a 50Hz country have any dead/spare 3278s and/or
>>> transformers for them? The IBM part number for the 50Hz 220V are
>>> 8715343 or 4119686.
>>>
>>> 2. I have other equipment where this will be an issue and not so
>>> easily solved. Does anyone have any experience in or recommendations
>>> for frequency conversion equipment? My System/3s for instance all use
>>> 60Hz ferroresonants operating off 208V 3-phase - now voltage can
>>> probably be retapped or easily converted but I still need to make a
>>> lot of 60Hz to run them...
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> http://www.corestore.org
>>> 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
>>> Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
>>> For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
>
>
>
> --
>
> http://www.corestore.org
> 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
> Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
> For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[drlegendre .]

For those of use who might have a broad, but more generic technical
knowledge - could you please explain exactly what a "3278" is?

Sincere query.. as the goog turns up nothing meaningful..

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:03 PM, William Donzelli 
wrote:

> If you can get a rotary one, those are really nice - just wasteful and
> loud. With proper maintenance they last forever, can take a beating,
> and do not give waveshape issues that cheap solid state units can
> have. And, maybe most importantly, you can make one yourself.
>
> But considering the mix of 50 and 60 Hz stuff you likely have by now
> (that is what you get for moving!), spending some decent money on a
> real VFD might be worth it. I might think a cheap VFD may give
> ferroresonant iron fits with all those extra harmonics.
>
> --
> Will
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:48 PM, Mike Ross  wrote:
> > Any recommendations for what type? Are solid-state devices up to the
> > job these days? I still remember rotary converters...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, William Donzelli 
> wrote:
> >> In the long term, you should probably break down and get a good size
> >> frequency converter.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Will
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Mike Ross  wrote:
> >>> I recently blew up a 3278... it worked ok for a few hours then started
> >>> blowing fuses.
> >>>
> >>> I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
> >>> Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
> >>> specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
> >>> with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
> >>> transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
> >>> - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
> >>> at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.
> >>>
> >>> 1. Does anyone in a 50Hz country have any dead/spare 3278s and/or
> >>> transformers for them? The IBM part number for the 50Hz 220V are
> >>> 8715343 or 4119686.
> >>>
> >>> 2. I have other equipment where this will be an issue and not so
> >>> easily solved. Does anyone have any experience in or recommendations
> >>> for frequency conversion equipment? My System/3s for instance all use
> >>> 60Hz ferroresonants operating off 208V 3-phase - now voltage can
> >>> probably be retapped or easily converted but I still need to make a
> >>> lot of 60Hz to run them...
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> http://www.corestore.org
> >>> 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
> >>> Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
> >>> For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > http://www.corestore.org
> > 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
> > Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
> > For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
>

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Jon Elson]

On 12/21/2015 09:03 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

If you can get a rotary one, those are really nice - just wasteful and
loud. With proper maintenance they last forever, can take a beating,
and do not give waveshape issues that cheap solid state units can
have. And, maybe most importantly, you can make one yourself.

But considering the mix of 50 and 60 Hz stuff you likely have by now
(that is what you get for moving!), spending some decent money on a
real VFD might be worth it. I might think a cheap VFD may give
ferroresonant iron fits with all those extra harmonics.

You can't run electronics with VFDs designed to run motors, 
only. They put out PWM chopped square waves at 300+ Volts.  
A motor's winding inductance smooths that out to a proper 
current waveform, and it only causes a little extra eddy 
current losses.  But, typical transformers will have real 
fits with that kind of waveform.


There are "frequency changers" made by Elgar and others that 
will do the job right, but they will cost a REAL bundle of 
cash!  (Also known as frequency converters.)


It may be possible to retune the resonant circuit of the 
constant voltage transformer by adding capacitance in 
parallel to the existing capacitor.


Jon

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[William Donzelli]

> Sincere query.. as the goog turns up nothing meaningful..

Try IBM 3278.

Hint: one of those popular terminal families in the world.

--
Will

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[William Donzelli]

I have heard that some guys have put a motor in the circuit just to
deal with the harmonics as a filter to shore the sine wave up. An
interesting idea, worth a try, but I bet it works on a case-by-case
basis.

--
Will

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:
> On 12/21/2015 09:03 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
>>
>> If you can get a rotary one, those are really nice - just wasteful and
>> loud. With proper maintenance they last forever, can take a beating,
>> and do not give waveshape issues that cheap solid state units can
>> have. And, maybe most importantly, you can make one yourself.
>>
>> But considering the mix of 50 and 60 Hz stuff you likely have by now
>> (that is what you get for moving!), spending some decent money on a
>> real VFD might be worth it. I might think a cheap VFD may give
>> ferroresonant iron fits with all those extra harmonics.
>>
> You can't run electronics with VFDs designed to run motors, only. They put
> out PWM chopped square waves at 300+ Volts.  A motor's winding inductance
> smooths that out to a proper current waveform, and it only causes a little
> extra eddy current losses.  But, typical transformers will have real fits
> with that kind of waveform.
>
> There are "frequency changers" made by Elgar and others that will do the job
> right, but they will cost a REAL bundle of cash!  (Also known as frequency
> converters.)
>
> It may be possible to retune the resonant circuit of the constant voltage
> transformer by adding capacitance in parallel to the existing capacitor.
>
> Jon
>
>

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Mike Ross]

H.

I do have a massive idler motor - as in it takes two people to even
think about lifting it - from my days in NY when I had to manufacture
a 3rd phase to make the S/3 and other items work... I wonder if I
could do anything using that as a starting point?

Three phase is no problem here... previous owner of house was a
woodworker and I have 3-phase 50Hz 400V straight to the workshop
already wired in :-)

Finagle's law says 90% of my 3-phase big iron was acquired in the USA
and expects 3-phase 60Hz 208V... :-(

Mike

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 4:03 PM, William Donzelli  wrote:
> If you can get a rotary one, those are really nice - just wasteful and
> loud. With proper maintenance they last forever, can take a beating,
> and do not give waveshape issues that cheap solid state units can
> have. And, maybe most importantly, you can make one yourself.
>
> But considering the mix of 50 and 60 Hz stuff you likely have by now
> (that is what you get for moving!), spending some decent money on a
> real VFD might be worth it. I might think a cheap VFD may give
> ferroresonant iron fits with all those extra harmonics.
>
> --
> Will
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:48 PM, Mike Ross  wrote:
>> Any recommendations for what type? Are solid-state devices up to the
>> job these days? I still remember rotary converters...
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, William Donzelli  
>> wrote:
>>> In the long term, you should probably break down and get a good size
>>> frequency converter.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Will
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Mike Ross  wrote:
 I recently blew up a 3278... it worked ok for a few hours then started
 blowing fuses.

 I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
 Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
 specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
 with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
 transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
 - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
 at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.

 1. Does anyone in a 50Hz country have any dead/spare 3278s and/or
 transformers for them? The IBM part number for the 50Hz 220V are
 8715343 or 4119686.

 2. I have other equipment where this will be an issue and not so
 easily solved. Does anyone have any experience in or recommendations
 for frequency conversion equipment? My System/3s for instance all use
 60Hz ferroresonants operating off 208V 3-phase - now voltage can
 probably be retapped or easily converted but I still need to make a
 lot of 60Hz to run them...

 Thanks

 Mike

 http://www.corestore.org
 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
 Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
 For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> http://www.corestore.org
>> 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
>> Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
>> For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: Available: various PSION organizers, parts, and documentation from the mid-80s

[Jason T]

On Dec 21, 2015 22:03, "steven stengel"  wrote:
>
> I have boxes full of like-new PSION II organizers that I recently
received from a US distributed.
>
> These aren't rare or valuable, but they are new in the box and seemingly
never used.
>
> There are different models, with both 2 and 4 line displays, and
different amounts of memory.
>
>
> I also have memory modules, cables, and development documentation.
>
> There's also a PSION module duplicactor.
>
>
> If any of this interests anyone, let me know.

I see a lot of development documentation.  Anyone know if all of that is
scanned and online yet?

Re: Available: various PSION organizers, parts, and documentation from the mid-80s

[Mike Ross]

Oh put me down for a couple of Series 3s and serial links. They're
useful; was thinking about them just the other day. Used to know an
SGI dealer who kept one handy as the smallest serial terminal he could
find for setting up SGI boxes from the command line.

Mike

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 5:03 PM, steven stengel  wrote:
> I have boxes full of like-new PSION II organizers that I recently received 
> from a US distributed.
>
> These aren't rare or valuable, but they are new in the box and seemingly 
> never used.
>
> There are different models, with both 2 and 4 line displays, and different 
> amounts of memory.
>
>
> I also have memory modules, cables, and development documentation.
>
> There's also a PSION module duplicactor.
>
>
> If any of this interests anyone, let me know.
>
>
> Also: 50 pounds of old PC parallel, serial, video cables, etc.
>
> You can see pictures here:
>
>
> http://www.oldcomputers.net/temp/



-- 

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: The best spreadsheet / database program for Commodore 64?

[Mike Boyle]

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Mike Whalen 
wrote:

> On Saturday, December 19, 2015, Mike  wrote:
>
> > Is there anything like Appleworks 1.0 for the commodore 64? if so could
> > you be kind enough to give me the name of the program? I have searched
> > but have found nothing of any value. I just would like a checkbool
> > ledger and a savings spreadsheet.
> >
>
> The first one that comes to mind is Magic Desk. It's primitive and,
> apparently, had some issues. http://toastytech.com/guis/magdesk.html
>
> I remember using that one. The interface is wicked slow.
>
> GEOS was also pretty well populated with various applications like the ones
> you seek. You'd need a mouse for hardware and, unfortunately, I've not had
> an easy time getting it to work well in emulation.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEOS_(8-bit_operating_system)
>
> GEOS was fun, fun to play with.
>
> You can look at the software produced by Batteries Included. They did
> produce an integrated suite but not with all the modules you seek. BI
> produced tons of productivity software for the platform.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batteries_Included_(company)
>



-- 
​MIKE MIKE MIKE!!! That is perfect I bet that cart is going to be a pretty
penny I wonder if anyone on here would have one they would like to sell??

P.S. Hey Mike the first link worked great but the 2nd 2 were dead ends :(
but thank you so very much for the info that Magic Desk is just what I am
looking for!!!​

*Mike's ​Honda ATC 3wheeler​ Shop​ for LIFE!!!*

*   Have a blessed day!*

Remember the old "Choose your own adventure books" By D & D! ! !

[Mike]

Has any of you took one of them old choose your own adventurer books and
coded it into a text RPG in basic? if so how well did it work as soon as
I get all my Commodore 64 setup on CHRISTmas day that is the first thing
that I am going to start working on. The one I am doing is *" THE DRAGON
OF DOOM "* I have been brushing up on my coding skills with old books
like BASIC COMPUTER GAMES AND SUCH... So wirh me luck and if any of you
have done this brfotr please let me know how it ernt? The only Major
things I have forgotten are...

1. Clear the screen for the next page!
2, doing the page jumps like in the book it will say if your want top
enter turn to page 356 ot
if you want to keep walking turn to page 17 that is the code I have
forgoten But I am sure you all will be able to help me make this game
the best it can be. I wish I fould add hiypointd and damage points find
gold but I guess when I get to that Ill ask only after I dearch th net
for awncers. thanks yall GOD BLESS AND MERRY CHRISTmas!
'

RE: Remember the old "Choose your own adventure books" By D & D! ! !

[Cindy Croxton]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 6:47 AM
To: Classic computer News Group
Subject: Remember the old "Choose your own adventure books" By D & D! ! !

Has any of you took one of them old choose your own adventurer books and coded 
it into a text RPG in basic? if so how well did it work as soon as I get all my 
Commodore 64 setup on CHRISTmas day that is the first thing that I am going to 
start working on. The one I am doing is *" THE DRAGON OF DOOM "* I have been 
brushing up on my coding skills with old books like BASIC COMPUTER GAMES AND 
SUCH... So wirh me luck and if any of you have done this brfotr please let me 
know how it ernt? The only Major things I have forgotten are...

1. Clear the screen for the next page!
2, doing the page jumps like in the book it will say if your want top enter 
turn to page 356 ot if you want to keep walking turn to page 17 that is the 
code I have forgoten But I am sure you all will be able to help me make this 
game the best it can be. I wish I fould add hiypointd and damage points find 
gold but I guess when I get to that Ill ask only after I dearch th net for 
awncers. thanks yall GOD BLESS AND MERRY CHRISTmas!
'

Clear Screen was CLS, IIRC.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Remember the old "Choose your own adventure books" By D & D! ! !

[Jason Howe]

On 12/21/2015 04:46 AM, Mike wrote:

Has any of you took one of them old choose your own adventurer books and
coded it into a text RPG in basic? if so how well did it work as soon as
I get all my Commodore 64 setup on CHRISTmas day that is the first thing
that I am going to start working on. The one I am doing is *" THE DRAGON
OF DOOM "* I have been brushing up on my coding skills with old books
like BASIC COMPUTER GAMES AND SUCH...


In a similar vein, I found in the used book store by my house a year or 
two ago, "The Bytes Brothers" Volume 2.  Billed as a "Solve-it-yourself 
computer mystery, it takes you through a story, with clues, the idea is 
to write a basic program to solve some of the puzzles through-out the 
book.  It's pretty simple stuff, but would be perfect for an 8-9 year 
old just learning some BASIC on their family's home computer.  I've 
looked around for these and haven't found these in any other used stores.


...and now that I check amazon, the entire series of these is out there 
for about a penny a piece, I may have to burn a Christmas dollar, 
literally just one to get the rest.


http://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Program-Problem--Yourself-Computer/dp/0553244191/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1450764970&sr=1-2&keywords=bytes+brothers

--Jason

Re: Remember the old "Choose your own adventure books" By D & D! ! !

[Jason Howe]

On 12/21/2015 10:17 PM, Jason Howe wrote:


On 12/21/2015 04:46 AM, Mike wrote:

Has any of you took one of them old choose your own adventurer books and
coded it into a text RPG in basic? if so how well did it work as soon as
I get all my Commodore 64 setup on CHRISTmas day that is the first thing
that I am going to start working on. The one I am doing is *" THE DRAGON
OF DOOM "* I have been brushing up on my coding skills with old books
like BASIC COMPUTER GAMES AND SUCH...


In a similar vein, I found in the used book store by my house a year 
or two ago, "The Bytes Brothers" Volume 2.  Billed as a 
"Solve-it-yourself computer mystery, it takes you through a story, 
with clues, the idea is to write a basic program to solve some of the 
puzzles through-out the book.  It's pretty simple stuff, but would be 
perfect for an 8-9 year old just learning some BASIC on their family's 
home computer.  I've looked around for these and haven't found these 
in any other used stores.


...and now that I check amazon, the entire series of these is out 
there for about a penny a piece, I may have to burn a Christmas 
dollar, literally just one to get the rest.


http://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Program-Problem--Yourself-Computer/dp/0553244191/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1450764970&sr=1-2&keywords=bytes+brothers 



--Jason
I see now that I completely mis-read your original post.sorry for my 
off-topic reply.  Best of luck in your quest!


--Jason

Re: Remember the old "Choose your own adventure books" By D & D! ! !

[Ethan Dicks]

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 1:04 AM, Cindy Croxton  wrote:
>> Has any of you took one of them old choose your own adventurer books and 
>> coded it into a text RPG in basic?
>>
>> 1. Clear the screen for the next page!
>>
> Clear Screen was CLS, IIRC.

For TRS-80 BASIC, I think.  For Commodore BASIC, it's

PRINT CHR$(147)

(you can also type PRINT and a quote and hit SHIFT-CLR HOME and
another quote, which works well when you want to print a string that
starts by clearing the screen and going to the top left corner, then
has other movement and/or text)

There are a number of Commodore BASIC books out there, and for
beginner stuff, the one that comes with the machine (if you get one in
the box) will get you started.

-ethan