Triprocessor PDP-10 [Was: Re: [multicians] Emacs humor]
On Wed, Dec 02, 2015 at 02:13:06AM +, Rich Alderson wrote: > > KL-10/PDP-10/PDP-6 triprocessor, and KL-10/PDP-10 dual processor and > You make it sound like someone hacked up a computer consisting of one KL-10, one PDP-10 and one PDP-6. But I assume you mean homogenic three-processor machines? Who, besides Peter Löthberg, ran threeprocessor machines? Also, what are you refering to as PDP-10? KA-10? Thanks, Pontus.
RE: Oberon and the OberonStation (retro-style FPGA computing)
>Do you have 5 volt I/O with the OberonStaion FPGA? >I was thinking of using it as general FPGA card. The serial port is 3.3v according to the website. I haven't attempted to use the serial port or the GPIO pins, but I believe they are all 3.3 volts for the Spartan 3 series. Check the data sheet for the FPGA to be sure. There are no level converters on the board, so whatever the FPGA provides is what you get. BTW, as of this writing, the website is showing the fully-assembled boards as available. --Bill
Re: Triprocessor PDP-10 [Was: Re: [multicians] Emacs humor]
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 1:18 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: > You make it sound like someone hacked up a computer consisting of one > KL-10, one PDP-10 and one PDP-6. Yes, the processors were a KL10, a KI10, and a 166 (PDP-6 CPU). Needless to say, that was not a DEC-supported configuration.
Re: Oberon and the OberonStation (retro-style FPGA computing)
> Do you have 5 volt I/O with the OberonStaion FPGA? > I was thinking of using it as general FPGA card. No, the FPGA pins are neither 5V, nor 5V-tolerant. The last Xilinx FPGA that had 5V-tolerant I/O was the Spartan II. Xilinx does still make CPLDs that are 5V-tolerant, the XC95nnXL series.
Re: Interfacing PDP 11/05 to VT 50
Hi Ethan, I would be *very* interested on one of those for my 11/05 - including shipping to sunny Australia :-) Doug On 12/2/2015 11:13 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Mattis Lind wrote: ... should be passive... The same goes for the VT1XX option on the VT100 which had two switches which one could set. I have a couple of the VT1XX 20mA options, if anyone is looking. New in Box. -ethan
Re: [multicians] Emacs humor
>> I think the elevator hack involved the AI Lab PDP-6 (or maybe, later, >> PDP-10) I can supply definitive bits here (I have read the code involved). The actual interface to the elevator was in one of the PDP-11 front-ends on the MIT-AI KA10 (memory escapes me as to whether it was the TV11 or the XGP11 or what, don't have time right at the moment to go look - I suspect the former). There was actually a table in the PDP-11 code that ran the Knight TV's (perhaps the first bit-mapped display system) so that one only needed to type '-E', and the code knew which floor that Knight TV console was on, and automagically sent the elevator to that floor (3, 8 or 9). >> I wouldn't be surprised if it migrated to the Lisp machines, too Yes, but that would have just been a network client talking to a server; the actual hardware interface remained, I am pretty sure, on the -11. Noel
TU-58
Dear List While the silk screeners process the panels I have a couple of days for a little project I have a TU-58 and yes it had gooey drive wheels. Now it no longer has that problem but I have black and gooey fingers.!!! I know this issue has been addressed before. So I think somebody must know where I can get the right tubing to replace the degraded stuff. The drive hub is 0.42" and the rubber bit was 0.62" o/d A UK source would be nice, Rod
RE: Oberon and the OberonStation (retro-style FPGA computing)
Spartan 3E inputs can be made 5V tolerant with a series resistor... http://www.xilinx.com/support/answers/19146.html Dave G4UGM > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of William > Maddox > Sent: 02 December 2015 08:32 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > > Subject: RE: Oberon and the OberonStation (retro-style FPGA computing) > > >Do you have 5 volt I/O with the OberonStaion FPGA? > >I was thinking of using it as general FPGA card. > > The serial port is 3.3v according to the website. I haven't attempted to use > the serial port or the GPIO pins, but I believe they are all 3.3 volts for the > Spartan 3 series. Check the data sheet for the FPGA to be sure. There are > no level converters on the board, so whatever the FPGA provides is what > you get. > > BTW, as of this writing, the website is showing the fully-assembled boards as > available. > > --Bill > >
Re: Oberon and the OberonStation (retro-style FPGA computing)
On 24 November 2015 at 08:45, Mark Wickens wrote: > Thanks for letting us know about this William - I'm sure there is still > plenty of interest in Oberon, Modula-2, Modula-3 and other derivatives. Was there ever an ARM version? I am wondering how hard it would be to port to Raspberry Pi... -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)
Re: Triprocessor PDP-10 [Was: Re: [multicians] Emacs humor]
On 12/2/15 12:18 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: On Wed, Dec 02, 2015 at 02:13:06AM +, Rich Alderson wrote: KL-10/PDP-10/PDP-6 triprocessor, Who, besides Peter Löthberg, ran threeprocessor machines? SAIL, which is the triprocessor Rich is referring to.
Re: TU-58
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 7:40 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > I have a TU-58 and yes it had gooey drive wheels. > Now it no longer has that problem but I have black and gooey fingers.!!! Yep. > I know this issue has been addressed before. Yep. > So I think somebody must know where I can get the right tubing to replace > the degraded stuff. > The drive hub is 0.42" and the rubber bit was 0.62" o/d I've used 5/8" (0.625") OD Tygon tubing, often used for aquarium lines and drainage lines. I just get a snip off the roll, place it over the end of the cleaned hub, and slice it to the right height to provide a "wheel" as wide as the original. > A UK source would be nice, Can't help you with that. I get my Tygon at the hardware store. No idea what sizes you would have there. -ethan
Re: TU-58
I used orange over black tubing designed for carrying water under pressure from Home Depot (here in the US), and then sanded it down to a reasonable O.D. size (IIRC). Worked great. I don't know that the diameter is absolutely critical - I think it has some kind of speed encoding. On 12/2/2015 6:40 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > Dear List > While the silk screeners process the panels I have a > couple of days for a little project > I have a TU-58 and yes it had gooey drive wheels. > Now it no longer has that problem but I have black and gooey fingers.!!! > > I know this issue has been addressed before. > So I think somebody must know where I can get the right tubing to > replace the degraded stuff. > The drive hub is 0.42" and the rubber bit was 0.62" o/d > A UK source would be nice, > > Rod >
Re: TU-58
Thanks Jay Yes there's an optical encoder on the other end of the motor. Depending on the pressure of the roller on the cassette drive wheel it will deform more or less. That effectivley changes the diameter and hence the speed. So you need to set it. Its a DC motor so you can control the speed. Just count the encoder pulses over time and you know what the speed is. Did you glue your pressure hose on or was a push fit enough? Regards Rod On 02/12/2015 15:31, Jay Jaeger wrote: I used orange over black tubing designed for carrying water under pressure from Home Depot (here in the US), and then sanded it down to a reasonable O.D. size (IIRC). Worked great. I don't know that the diameter is absolutely critical - I think it has some kind of speed encoding. On 12/2/2015 6:40 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: Dear List While the silk screeners process the panels I have a couple of days for a little project I have a TU-58 and yes it had gooey drive wheels. Now it no longer has that problem but I have black and gooey fingers.!!! I know this issue has been addressed before. So I think somebody must know where I can get the right tubing to replace the degraded stuff. The drive hub is 0.42" and the rubber bit was 0.62" o/d A UK source would be nice, Rod
Re: TU-58
> On Dec 2, 2015, at 10:50 AM, Rod Smallwood > wrote: > > Thanks Jay >Yes there's an optical encoder on the other end of the motor. > Depending on the pressure of the roller on the cassette drive wheel it will > deform more or less. > That effectivley changes the diameter and hence the speed. So you need to set > it. Actually, it's the circumference that matters, not the diameter. Does the circumference of a rubber roll change significantly when you press on it? paul
Re: TU-58
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015, Paul Koning wrote: Actually, it's the circumference that matters, not the diameter. I always thought that there was a relatively stable relationship between those! :-) Circumference tends to be a little over 3 times the diameter (3.0 in some states):-) Does the circumference of a rubber roll change significantly when you press on it? If it shifts or squeezes out to the sides, not so much. If it compresses, yes. Before TPMS, some cars got a crude estimation of low tire pressure by comparing the RPM of a tire (ABS sensors) with its fully inflated brethren. (circumference changing with pressure change)
Re: TU-58
Mathematically, circumference is PI times diameter or 3.14159. times the diameter. On 12/2/2015 11:06 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: On Wed, 2 Dec 2015, Paul Koning wrote: Actually, it's the circumference that matters, not the diameter. I always thought that there was a relatively stable relationship between those! :-) Circumference tends to be a little over 3 times the diameter (3.0 in some states):-) Does the circumference of a rubber roll change significantly when you press on it? If it shifts or squeezes out to the sides, not so much. If it compresses, yes. Before TPMS, some cars got a crude estimation of low tire pressure by comparing the RPM of a tire (ABS sensors) with its fully inflated brethren. (circumference changing with pressure change)
Re: TU-58
Ugh... Could this thread get any more offensive to people's knowledge.. On 12/2/2015 11:13 AM, Tony wrote: Mathematically, circumference is PI times diameter or 3.14159. times the diameter. On 12/2/2015 11:06 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: On Wed, 2 Dec 2015, Paul Koning wrote: Actually, it's the circumference that matters, not the diameter. I always thought that there was a relatively stable relationship between those! :-) Circumference tends to be a little over 3 times the diameter (3.0 in some states):-) Does the circumference of a rubber roll change significantly when you press on it? If it shifts or squeezes out to the sides, not so much. If it compresses, yes. Before TPMS, some cars got a crude estimation of low tire pressure by comparing the RPM of a tire (ABS sensors) with its fully inflated brethren. (circumference changing with pressure change)
Re: TU-58
Hi Guys Circumference and Diameter are linked by the constant Pi and therefore are an entity. Its a little more complex with a rubber wheel and its indented path. However as we are using closed loop control when the measured term equals the target term there you are. You can get into loop filters and lots of nice math if you want. Rod On 02/12/2015 16:06, Fred Cisin wrote: On Wed, 2 Dec 2015, Paul Koning wrote: Actually, it's the circumference that matters, not the diameter. I always thought that there was a relatively stable relationship between those! :-) Circumference tends to be a little over 3 times the diameter (3.0 in some states):-) Does the circumference of a rubber roll change significantly when you press on it? If it shifts or squeezes out to the sides, not so much. If it compresses, yes. Before TPMS, some cars got a crude estimation of low tire pressure by comparing the RPM of a tire (ABS sensors) with its fully inflated brethren. (circumference changing with pressure change)
Re: TU-58
I say.. come on chaps.. this is not math 101. Any more suggestions for sources of a bit of rubber tube? Rod Smallwood On 02/12/2015 16:13, Tony wrote: Mathematically, circumference is PI times diameter or 3.14159. times the diameter. On 12/2/2015 11:06 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: On Wed, 2 Dec 2015, Paul Koning wrote: Actually, it's the circumference that matters, not the diameter. I always thought that there was a relatively stable relationship between those! :-) Circumference tends to be a little over 3 times the diameter (3.0 in some states):-) Does the circumference of a rubber roll change significantly when you press on it? If it shifts or squeezes out to the sides, not so much. If it compresses, yes. Before TPMS, some cars got a crude estimation of low tire pressure by comparing the RPM of a tire (ABS sensors) with its fully inflated brethren. (circumference changing with pressure change)
Re: TU-58
On 2 December 2015 at 17:13, Tony wrote: > Mathematically, circumference is PI times diameter or 3.14159. times the > diameter. [1] Please do not top-quote. [2] Turn up your humour detectors. The OP was making a joke about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill That is why he said "in some states" with a smiley. By attempting to "correct" him, you have merely exposed your own ignorance of history and mathematics and your inability to work out the meaning of a smiley. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)
Re: TU-58
I'm sorry for stirring up this hornet's nest. I actually meant to ask a real question, and the way I phrased it made a mess of things. The real question: for rubber rollers in this sort of application, does the distortion that occurs significantly affect the circumference? Or is the nature of the material such that it's squished out of shape, but circumference does not change much? paul
Re: Oberon and the OberonStation (retro-style FPGA computing)
On 02.12.2015 15:04, Liam Proven wrote: On 24 November 2015 at 08:45, Mark Wickens wrote: Thanks for letting us know about this William - I'm sure there is still plenty of interest in Oberon, Modula-2, Modula-3 and other derivatives. Was there ever an ARM version? I am wondering how hard it would be to port to Raspberry Pi... Check out http://www.astrobe.com/default.htm Jos
Re: TU-58
I'd rarther get a bit of tube for my TU58. Hint The key is to understand the nature of elasticity in particular the rate change with respect to time. On 02/12/2015 16:48, Paul Koning wrote: I'm sorry for stirring up this hornet's nest. I actually meant to ask a real question, and the way I phrased it made a mess of things. The real question: for rubber rollers in this sort of application, does the distortion that occurs significantly affect the circumference? Or is the nature of the material such that it's squished out of shape, but circumference does not change much? paul
Re: Oberon and the OberonStation (retro-style FPGA computing)
On 2 December 2015 at 17:54, Jos Dreesen wrote: > On 02.12.2015 15:04, Liam Proven wrote: >> >> On 24 November 2015 at 08:45, Mark Wickens >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for letting us know about this William - I'm sure there is still >>> plenty of interest in Oberon, Modula-2, Modula-3 and other derivatives. >> >> >> >> Was there ever an ARM version? I am wondering how hard it would be to >> port to Raspberry Pi... >> > > Check out http://www.astrobe.com/default.htm Thanks for the info! So, Oberon *Language* yes, but Oberon *operating system* no? -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)
Searching HP drivers/libraries for E2071/82341 HP-IB
Hi! I'm looking for drivers of E2071/82341 HP-IB ISA card. I think they should be contained in the WNG0202.EXE self extracting archive. Thanks!
Re: TU-58
On 12/2/2015 9:50 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > Thanks Jay > Yes there's an optical encoder on the other end of the motor. > Depending on the pressure of the roller on the cassette drive wheel it > will deform more or less. > That effectivley changes the diameter and hence the speed. So you need > to set it. > > Its a DC motor so you can control the speed. > Just count the encoder pulses over time and you know what the speed is. > > Did you glue your pressure hose on or was a push fit enough? I think I may have glued them, but I am not sure - I do recall that the fit was pretty tight. > > Regards > > Rod > > > > On 02/12/2015 15:31, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> I used orange over black tubing designed for carrying water under >> pressure from Home Depot (here in the US), and then sanded it down to a >> reasonable O.D. size (IIRC). Worked great. >> >> I don't know that the diameter is absolutely critical - I think it has >> some kind of speed encoding. >> >> On 12/2/2015 6:40 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: >>> Dear List >>> While the silk screeners process the panels I have a >>> couple of days for a little project >>> I have a TU-58 and yes it had gooey drive wheels. >>> Now it no longer has that problem but I have black and gooey fingers.!!! >>> >>> I know this issue has been addressed before. >>> So I think somebody must know where I can get the right tubing to >>> replace the degraded stuff. >>> The drive hub is 0.42" and the rubber bit was 0.62" o/d >>> A UK source would be nice, >>> >>> Rod >>> > >
Re: TU-58
In my case the roller does not distort noticeably - it was pretty stiff material. JRJ On 12/2/2015 10:48 AM, Paul Koning wrote: > I'm sorry for stirring up this hornet's nest. > > I actually meant to ask a real question, and the way I phrased it made a mess > of things. The real question: for rubber rollers in this sort of > application, does the distortion that occurs significantly affect the > circumference? Or is the nature of the material such that it's squished out > of shape, but circumference does not change much? > > paul > >
RE: TU-58
> > Circumference and Diameter are linked by the constant Pi and therefore > are an entity. > Its a little more complex with a rubber wheel and its indented path. Indeed. And that may even depend on the type of 'rubber' used and how it deforms when pressed against the cartridge drive wheel. Remember that the motpr on these drives is mounted on pivots, which allows it to move back as the catridge is inserted. So a soft rubber roller is going to deform more than a hard one. > However as we are using closed loop control > when the measured term equals the target term there you are. I disagree with that. The tacho disk is on the bottom of the motor spindle. So the control electronics will count pulses from that and control the motor voltage to get the _motor_ turning at a constant speed. The drive roller in question is between the motor and the tape drive belt in the cartridge (effectively), so while the motor speed might be constamt and correct, the tape speed need not be if the roller is not right. I wondered about using the 'tyres' used on the idler wheels in VCRs, etc (which are still available). Unfortuantely they are sold by the machine they fit, not dimensions, so I don't know if any are a suitable size. And of course the is no shop that still sells things like that (only mail-order :-() so I can't go in and look at them, make measurements, etc. If the O/D is correct then that is all the really matters. If the I/D is different then it would not be hard to turn a different hub. I'll go back to the first question (as I also have 4 of these drive units, 2 in a standalone TU58, 2 in an 11/730 CPU, that need repairing). Does anyone have a UK source of tubing or whatever that will work -tony
Re: TU-58
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015, Paul Koning wrote:
I'm sorry for stirring up this hornet's nest.
Well, I put "emoticons" in, in a futile attempt to indicate that I was
joking. ("emoticon captioned for the humo[u]r impaired") I also hoped that
the "in some states" would give a further hint to that. I couldn't resist
the humour opportunity, but I did not intend it to be nasty - it is a
reasonable question.
And, without feeling hurt, I can always count on y'all to catch me up on
inaccuracies! :-)
I actually meant to ask a real question, and the way I phrased it made a
mess of things. The real question: for rubber rollers in this sort of
application, does the distortion that occurs significantly affect the
circumference? Or is the nature of the material such that it's squished
out of shape, but circumference does not change much?
The question can remain partially inconclusive. If the rubber is shifting
without compression, such as if the ID was too large, then the
circumference could be partially unaffected, but then the circumference
times the RPM of the axis of the roller is no longer the sole determinant
of tape motion.
Compression will have an effect on EFFECTIVE circumference (the amount the
tape gets moved, not the actual measurement around the roller) and remains
PI times twice the [compressed] radius of the circular segment at the
area of contact.
Try to IGNORE the other side of the roller that is not compressed, or
imagine if the entire roller were equally compressed, not just the
contact patch.
That's why I included the explicit example where tire pressure change
is/was detected by ABS speed sensors (now often done more directly with
TPMS)
Here's a similar, but off-topic, one to contemplate: If kids have helium
balloons floating against the ceiling of the backseat of your car, which
direction do the balloons move when you go around a tight corner?
RE: TU-58
> Mathematically, circumference is PI times diameter or 3.14159. times > the diameter. Doesn't that depend on the defintion of 'distance' in that a circle is the set of points in a plane equidistant from a given fixed point? Using the 'normal' definition of distance you do indeed get the above (as most of use have known for many years...) but there are plenty of other ways to define distance. Not that this matters for the TU58 where the above certainly holds. -tony
Re: Triprocessor PDP-10 [Was: Re: [multicians] Emacs humor]
> > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 09:18:56 +0100 > From: Pontus Pihlgren > Subject: Triprocessor PDP-10 [Was: Re: [multicians] Emacs humor] > > You make it sound like someone hacked up a computer consisting of one > KL-10, one PDP-10 and one PDP-6. But I assume you mean homogenic > three-processor machines? > > Who, besides Peter L?thberg, ran threeprocessor machines? > > Also, what are you refering to as PDP-10? KA-10? > > Thanks, > Pontus. > > 1026 TOPS-10 DEC Development Marlboro, MA KL1099 Tri-SMP Scrapped 12/14/97 1042 TOPS-10 DEC Development Marlboro, MA KL1099 Tri-SMP Scrapped 12/14/97 1322 TOPS-10 DEC Development Marlboro, MA KL10 Tri-SMP Michael Thompson
Re: TU-58
Is that PEX tubing you are referring to Jay? Any one have ideas for a TU10 or other tape drive capstans? On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > I used orange over black tubing designed for carrying water under > pressure from Home Depot (here in the US), and then sanded it down to a > reasonable O.D. size (IIRC). Worked great. > > I don't know that the diameter is absolutely critical - I think it has > some kind of speed encoding. > > On 12/2/2015 6:40 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > > Dear List > > While the silk screeners process the panels I have a > > couple of days for a little project > > I have a TU-58 and yes it had gooey drive wheels. > > Now it no longer has that problem but I have black and gooey fingers.!!! > > > > I know this issue has been addressed before. > > So I think somebody must know where I can get the right tubing to > > replace the degraded stuff. > > The drive hub is 0.42" and the rubber bit was 0.62" o/d > > A UK source would be nice, > > > > Rod > > >
RE: Triprocessor PDP-10 [Was: Re: [multicians] Emacs humor]
From: Pontus Pihlgren
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 12:19 AM
> On Wed, Dec 02, 2015 at 02:13:06AM +, Rich Alderson wrote:
>> KL-10/PDP-10/PDP-6 triprocessor, and KL-10/PDP-10 dual processor and
> You make it sound like someone hacked up a computer consisting of one
> KL-10, one PDP-10 and one PDP-6. But I assume you mean homogenic
> three-processor machines?
You assume incorrectly. I mean exactly what it sounds like.
> Who, besides Peter Löthberg, ran threeprocessor machines?
Lots of places. The folks at Oak Ridge ("Atomic City") ran a 5-processor
SMP configuration.
> Also, what are you refering to as PDP-10? KA-10?
Yes. Eric Smith was incorrect in his identification of the processor as a
KI-10.
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
Re: TU-58
Sorry forgot to use feed back from the tape. Usually a timing track or a phase locked loop clock drived from the data stream. Don't worry On 02/12/2015 17:50, tony duell wrote: Circumference and Diameter are linked by the constant Pi and therefore are an entity. Its a little more complex with a rubber wheel and its indented path. Indeed. And that may even depend on the type of 'rubber' used and how it deforms when pressed against the cartridge drive wheel. Remember that the motpr on these drives is mounted on pivots, which allows it to move back as the catridge is inserted. So a soft rubber roller is going to deform more than a hard one. However as we are using closed loop control when the measured term equals the target term there you are. I disagree with that. The tacho disk is on the bottom of the motor spindle. So the control electronics will count pulses from that and control the motor voltage to get the _motor_ turning at a constant speed. The drive roller in question is between the motor and the tape drive belt in the cartridge (effectively), so while the motor speed might be constamt and correct, the tape speed need not be if the roller is not right. I wondered about using the 'tyres' used on the idler wheels in VCRs, etc (which are still available). Unfortuantely they are sold by the machine they fit, not dimensions, so I don't know if any are a suitable size. And of course the is no shop that still sells things like that (only mail-order :-() so I can't go in and look at them, make measurements, etc. If the O/D is correct then that is all the really matters. If the I/D is different then it would not be hard to turn a different hub. I'll go back to the first question (as I also have 4 of these drive units, 2 in a standalone TU58, 2 in an 11/730 CPU, that need repairing). Does anyone have a UK source of tubing or whatever that will work -tony
Oak Ridge PDP setups
>Lots of places. The folks at Oak Ridge ("Atomic City") ran a 5-processor
>SMP configuration.
Rich - can you elaborate on this any? Which facility, what was it used
for? I've got family from Oak Ridge, and its unusual for my vintage
computer / atomic history to intersect like this.
Todd Killingsworth
Re: Searching HP drivers/libraries for E2071/82341 HP-IB
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:43 AM, supervinx wrote: > Hi! > I'm looking for drivers of E2071/82341 HP-IB ISA card. > I think they should be contained in the WNG0202.EXE self extracting > archive. If you go to the Previous Versions tab on this page should be able to find Keysight IO Libraries Suite 14.2 which was the last version to officially support the 82341C interface on Windows XP and Windows 2000. http://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2175637&nid=-0.977662&id=2175637 2006-06-01 14.2.8931.1 USB, LAN, RS-232, 82350A/B, 82357A, E5810A, 82341C, E1406A, E8491B
RE: Oak Ridge PDP setups
From: Todd Killingsworth
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 11:18 AM
>> Lots of places. The folks at Oak Ridge ("Atomic City") ran a 5-processor
>> SMP configuration.
> Rich - can you elaborate on this any? Which facility, what was it used
> for? I've got family from Oak Ridge, and its unusual for my vintage
> computer / atomic history to intersect like this.
Sorry, all I know about the site is mentions in passing by DEC LCG alumni who
worked there at one time or another, in Usenet postings to groups such as
alt.folklore.computers. To quote an example:
% From: jmfbahciv
% Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
% Subject: Re: Status of Arpanet/Internet in 1976?
% Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:24:48 -0400
% Organization: NewsGuy - Unlimited Usenet $19.95
% Lines: 29
% Message-ID:
% References:
<0fa0c23a-1eba-4f86-817b-b81a6e851...@j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
%
%
%
<8ba34ebf-84cd-41d9-9b2e-906782595...@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
%
% JMF's first assignment at DEC in 1970 was to make PDP-10s, PDP-11s,
% PDP-12, and some IBM machine yak at each other in Oak Ridge.
% I don't remember which facility it was; a decade later, the same
% site was running a 5-CPU SMP PDP-10 system, and still serving
% as the backend to the IBM system.
%
% /BAH
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
Re: TU-58
I have no idea what the material is called. I just bought something that was close on the O.D. and I.D. that I thought would work. But, when I look up PEX tubing at Home Depot, I found some stuff with .625" O.D. which is maybe just a tad smaller than what I found, and 0.5" I.D. which seems bigger than what I found. Really, the only way I'd know for sure is if I found the same stuff again - and I'm not 100% sure whether I found it at Home Depot or an Ace hardware store. This stuff has an orange jacket, about 17mm O.D., and a concentric inner black part, with an I.D. of 10mm. There is some kind of cloth mesh in between the layers - I can see signs of the pattern in the outer jacket, and I can see threads from it on the drives I actually used it on. I checked, and I don't see any signs of glue - I probably picked it to match the O.D. of the aluminum hub on the drive and press fit it. I certainly sanded the outer jacket down some - but it does not seem to be much at all - perhaps just enough to rough up the surface some. Whatever I did, it ended up without significant flat spots. I seem to recall rotating it between my thumb and forefinger as I rubbed it against some sandpaper. After the repair, I had good luck reading some Micro VAX diagnostic and Microcode tapes. JRJ On 12/2/2015 12:31 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: > Is that PEX tubing you are referring to Jay? > > Any one have ideas for a TU10 or other tape drive capstans? > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > >> I used orange over black tubing designed for carrying water under >> pressure from Home Depot (here in the US), and then sanded it down to a >> reasonable O.D. size (IIRC). Worked great. >> >> I don't know that the diameter is absolutely critical - I think it has >> some kind of speed encoding. >> >> On 12/2/2015 6:40 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: >>> Dear List >>> While the silk screeners process the panels I have a >>> couple of days for a little project >>> I have a TU-58 and yes it had gooey drive wheels. >>> Now it no longer has that problem but I have black and gooey fingers.!!! >>> >>> I know this issue has been addressed before. >>> So I think somebody must know where I can get the right tubing to >>> replace the degraded stuff. >>> The drive hub is 0.42" and the rubber bit was 0.62" o/d >>> A UK source would be nice, >>> >>> Rod >>> >> >
RE: TU-58
Anders, I can fix them, if you look at my Flickr page you can see some examples of new capstans I made.about halfway the site. www.flickr.com/hp-fix And of the HP3000 ;) -Rik -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: "Anders Sandahl" Verzonden: 2-12-2015 20:51 Aan: "cct...@classiccmp.org" Onderwerp: Re: TU-58 > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 12:40:08 + > From: Rod Smallwood > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Subject: TU-58 > Message-ID: <565ee6a8.2030...@btinternet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Dear List > While the silk screeners process the panels I have a > couple of days for a little project > I have a TU-58 and yes it had gooey drive wheels. > Now it no longer has that problem but I have black and gooey fingers.!!! > > I know this issue has been addressed before. > So I think somebody must know where I can get the right tubing to > replace the degraded stuff. > The drive hub is 0.42" and the rubber bit was 0.62" o/d > A UK source would be nice, > > Rod > I'm also intessted in this. I have a dual TU-58 that belongs to my VAX 11/730 that need new capstan rubber. European source... /Anders
RE: TU-58
> I'm also intessted in this. I have a dual TU-58 that belongs to my VAX > 11/730 that need new capstan rubber. European source... > > /Anders This is the picture.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/9452805294/in/album-72157634959418702/ I'm using a special kind of hose, which is precisely made. -Rik
Re: TU-58
> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 12:40:08 + > From: Rod Smallwood > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Subject: TU-58 > Message-ID: <565ee6a8.2030...@btinternet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Dear List > While the silk screeners process the panels I have a > couple of days for a little project > I have a TU-58 and yes it had gooey drive wheels. > Now it no longer has that problem but I have black and gooey fingers.!!! > > I know this issue has been addressed before. > So I think somebody must know where I can get the right tubing to > replace the degraded stuff. > The drive hub is 0.42" and the rubber bit was 0.62" o/d > A UK source would be nice, > > Rod > I'm also intessted in this. I have a dual TU-58 that belongs to my VAX 11/730 that need new capstan rubber. European source... /Anders
Re: Triprocessor PDP-10 [Was: Re: [multicians] Emacs humor]
Michael Thompson wrote: > 1026 TOPS-10 DEC Development Marlboro, MA KL1099 Tri-SMP Scrapped 12/14/97 > 1042 TOPS-10 DEC Development Marlboro, MA KL1099 Tri-SMP Scrapped 12/14/97 > 1322 TOPS-10 DEC Development Marlboro, MA KL10 Tri-SMP This is almost CERTAINLY derived from the list of CPU (APR) IDs that Alan Martin and I collected, starting at Stevens Tech (reading published SPRs), and continued work on when we were at DEC Marlboro. There are a couple of versions of it at: ftp://ftp.ultimate.com/pdp10/bucs20-anon/decapr/ I just added a newer (2001) version (the 1985/6 files that HAD been available there didn't have either of these): Looks like NIH had a tri-SMP system: 1378TOPS-10 NIH Bethesda, MdKL1099 SMPA 1381TOPS-10 NIH Bethesda, MdKL1099 SMPB 1453TOPS-10 NIH Bethesda, MdKL1099 SMPC And Southern New England Telephone had one as well (in addition to a dual): 1318TOPS-10 S. New Eng Tel New Haven, Ct KL1090 SMPC 1364TOPS-10 S. New Eng Tel New Haven, Ct KL1090 SMPA 1366TOPS-10 S. New Eng Tel New Haven, Ct KL1090 SMPB
RE: TU-58
> > This is the picture.. > https://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/9452805294/in/album-72157634959418702/ > I'm using a special kind of hose, which is precisely made. OK, what is it called, who makes it, and where can you buy it? -tony
RE: TU-58
> -Oorspronkelijk bericht- > Van: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] Namens tony duell > Verzonden: woensdag 2 december 2015 22:29 > Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts > Onderwerp: RE: TU-58 > > > > > This is the picture.. > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/9452805294/in/album-7215763495941 > > 8702/ I'm using a special kind of hose, which is precisely made. > > OK, what is it called, who makes it, and where can you buy it? > > -tony > = It's not the first time this discussion comes around.. Poly Urethane rubber, it's called in dutch 'precisie buis/slang' and you can get it in several sizes from 6mm to . large http://www.deboerit.nl/ is my supplier it's a local firm. -Rik
Re: TU-58
Hi Well it certainly works for you Rik. I dont speak Dutch and its not clear exactly which of the products you refer to. The end of hub appears to have been turned on a lathe. So if you speak Dutch and have a nice big lathe in your shed you can fix your TU58 For us lesser mortals the search goes on. Rod On 02/12/2015 21:51, Rik Bos wrote: -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] Namens tony duell Verzonden: woensdag 2 december 2015 22:29 Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Onderwerp: RE: TU-58 This is the picture.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/9452805294/in/album-7215763495941 8702/ I'm using a special kind of hose, which is precisely made. OK, what is it called, who makes it, and where can you buy it? -tony = It's not the first time this discussion comes around.. Poly Urethane rubber, it's called in dutch 'precisie buis/slang' and you can get it in several sizes from 6mm to . large http://www.deboerit.nl/ is my supplier it's a local firm. -Rik
Re: TU-58
On 12/02/2015 01:51 PM, Rik Bos wrote: It's not the first time this discussion comes around.. Poly Urethane rubber, it's called in dutch 'precisie buis/slang' and you can get it in several sizes from 6mm to . large http://www.deboerit.nl/ is my supplier it's a local firm. That's curious--when this popped into my inbox, I was in the middle of asking if anyone used PU hose for this purpose. I'll add a caution that PU comes in many durometer ratings and that I don't know what's appropriate for this use. But yeah, the stuff is very common. I'd be surprised if McMaster-Carr didn't sell it. --Chuck
Re: Searching HP drivers/libraries for E2071/82341 HP-IB
Il giorno mer, 02/12/2015 alle 11.32 -0800, Glen Slick ha scritto: > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:43 AM, supervinx wrote: > > Hi! > > I'm looking for drivers of E2071/82341 HP-IB ISA card. > > I think they should be contained in the WNG0202.EXE self extracting > > archive. > > If you go to the Previous Versions tab on this page should be able to > find Keysight IO Libraries Suite 14.2 which was the last version to > officially support the 82341C interface on Windows XP and Windows > 2000. > > http://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2175637&nid=-0.977662&id=2175637 > > 2006-06-01 > 14.2.8931.1 > USB, LAN, RS-232, 82350A/B, 82357A, E5810A, 82341C, E1406A, E8491B Thanks!
Re: TU-58
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015, Tony wrote: Mathematically, circumference is PI times diameter or 3.14159. times the diameter. That's of a CIRCLE, and once you deform it, it ceases to be a circle. I tried measuring a whole bunch of circles, and I can't find any rational reason why dividing the circumference by the diameter never came out even! :-)
Re: TU-58
On 2015-12-03 00:22, Fred Cisin wrote: On Wed, 2 Dec 2015, Tony wrote: Mathematically, circumference is PI times diameter or 3.14159. times the diameter. That's of a CIRCLE, and once you deform it, it ceases to be a circle. I tried measuring a whole bunch of circles, and I can't find any rational reason why dividing the circumference by the diameter never came out even! :-) You need to measure more of them! You've just been unlucky. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Re: TU-58
I tried measuring a whole bunch of circles, and I can't find any
rational reason why dividing the circumference by the diameter never
came out even! :-)
On Thu, 3 Dec 2015, Johnny Billquist wrote:
You need to measure more of them! You've just been unlucky.
OK!
I started to wonder whether I needed more bits in my floating point.
They just wouldn't resolve in the 24 bits of single precision.
Using such a bizarre number is just plain irrational!
Seriously, though,
in the computer math class, I did make the students manually
compute the some bit representations, including PI.
I found several students had encountered the same thing that I had run
into, of some grade school teachers misinterpreting their textbook and
declaring, "PI is about 3.1416 or EXACTLY 22/7"! (insertion of "EXACTLY"
was theirs)
In fifth grade, I got into a lot of trouble for argueing with that teacher.
I think that "tire" is a good term; it implies some of the special issues
that come up from compressing from only one side. If you measure the
distance from roadway to axle, and imagine a tire that is a perfect circle
of that diameter, some of the rotations per mile issues clear up, although
obviously not explaining the amount of force required for propulsion
relative to what you would need with uncompressible round tire.
("spherical chicken in a vacuum")
Tony mentioned selecting based on OD, and then remachining the ID. With
my extremely limited machinist skills, I'd be more inclined to look for a
match of the ID, and then let elasticity take care of at least part
of the OD discrepancy. I've tried to machine rubber. It obviously can
be done. But only by somebody more skilled than I.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
PDT-11/150 Field Maintenance Print Set wanted
I have a non-working PDT-11/150, which fails self test 7 (console USART) and when not in test mode, and with autobaud disabled, doesn't send anything to the console. I dumped the ROMs (two 82S2708 1Kx8 PROM for LSI-11 code, three 8316E 2Kx8 masked ROM for the 8085 I/O processor, and one 8316E for the 8085 floppy controller), and I've started disassembling the 8085 ROM code to figure out what the self-test actually does, but it's slow going. It would be really helpful to have a copy (paper or scan) of the Field Maintenance Print Set. Does anyone have it? Thanks! Eric
Re: PDT-11/150 Field Maintenance Print Set wanted
I might have a hard copy I can loan you. Can you scan a copy for bitsavers? Paul On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > I have a non-working PDT-11/150, which fails self test 7 (console > USART) and when not in test mode, and with autobaud disabled, doesn't > send anything to the console. > > I dumped the ROMs (two 82S2708 1Kx8 PROM for LSI-11 code, three 8316E > 2Kx8 masked ROM for the 8085 I/O processor, and one 8316E for the 8085 > floppy controller), and I've started disassembling the 8085 ROM code > to figure out what the self-test actually does, but it's slow going. > > It would be really helpful to have a copy (paper or scan) of the Field > Maintenance Print Set. Does anyone have it? > > Thanks! > Eric >
Re: PDT-11/150 Field Maintenance Print Set wanted
I’d sure love to see a copy on bitsavers, one of these days I’d like to try to resurrect mine. So it would be great if someone who can scan the printset would. :-) Zane > On Dec 2, 2015, at 8:40 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: > > I might have a hard copy I can loan you. Can you scan a copy for bitsavers? > > Paul > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > >> I have a non-working PDT-11/150, which fails self test 7 (console >> USART) and when not in test mode, and with autobaud disabled, doesn't >> send anything to the console. >> >> I dumped the ROMs (two 82S2708 1Kx8 PROM for LSI-11 code, three 8316E >> 2Kx8 masked ROM for the 8085 I/O processor, and one 8316E for the 8085 >> floppy controller), and I've started disassembling the 8085 ROM code >> to figure out what the self-test actually does, but it's slow going. >> >> It would be really helpful to have a copy (paper or scan) of the Field >> Maintenance Print Set. Does anyone have it? >> >> Thanks! >> Eric >>
Re: Purchased a Microvax 3800
Thank you for all the helpful information Glen. I will definately grab that scsi interface when i get the funds, I have a scsi cd drive already to be used with my SGi gear. I removed that cpu board out and took a couple of pictures. There is one connector, on the top, with two notches in it. Same as the controller board I just bought. I would assume that is the DSSI connector? http://postimg.org/gallery/1iafnu1oa/ I have a stockpile of scsi disks over here, i might just need to save up and get the better controller that works with disks as well as cdrom's I've yet to find the battery, but that is next on my list, thanks for the suggestion. --Devin On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 12:03 AM, Glen Slick wrote: > On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 7:25 PM, devin davison wrote: > > > > Just figured id post about it here, to show my progress twords getting > it > > running. > > > > http://postimg.org/gallery/fztxjqbe/ > > Another tip: If you haven't done so already, remove the CPU console > panel and check to see if there is still a NiCad battery pack > installed. The battery pack is mounted under the console panel PCB and > you have to remove a few screws holding the PCB in place to get to it. > If the pack is still installed then remove it. If it hasn't already > started leaking it is only a matter of time before it does and starts > corroding the PCB. >
Re: PDT-11/150 Field Maintenance Print Set wanted
I just did a quick check and found PDT11/110 and /130 prints, along with VT278. The PDT11/150 could be anywhere. I might have manuals and pocket guides also. When I have time and money, I'll have my librarian come back for a few days. D n On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 10:43 PM, Zane Healy wrote: > I’d sure love to see a copy on bitsavers, one of these days I’d like to > try to resurrect mine. So it would be great if someone who can scan the > printset would. :-) > > Zane > > > > On Dec 2, 2015, at 8:40 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: > > > > I might have a hard copy I can loan you. Can you scan a copy for > bitsavers? > > > > Paul > > > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > > > >> I have a non-working PDT-11/150, which fails self test 7 (console > >> USART) and when not in test mode, and with autobaud disabled, doesn't > >> send anything to the console. > >> > >> I dumped the ROMs (two 82S2708 1Kx8 PROM for LSI-11 code, three 8316E > >> 2Kx8 masked ROM for the 8085 I/O processor, and one 8316E for the 8085 > >> floppy controller), and I've started disassembling the 8085 ROM code > >> to figure out what the self-test actually does, but it's slow going. > >> > >> It would be really helpful to have a copy (paper or scan) of the Field > >> Maintenance Print Set. Does anyone have it? > >> > >> Thanks! > >> Eric > >> > >
Re: PDT-11/150 Field Maintenance Print Set wanted
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:40 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: > I might have a hard copy I can loan you. Can you scan a copy for bitsavers? Yes. I'd be glad to do that, and mail it back. Thank you!
Re: Triprocessor PDP-10 [Was: Re: [multicians] Emacs humor]
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Rich Alderson wrote: > Yes. Eric Smith was incorrect in his identification of the processor as a > KI-10. That was a thinko or typo. I knew it was a KA10, I'm not sure how KI10 got into the message. Thanks for the correction.
Re: Purchased a Microvax 3800
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:22 PM, devin davison wrote: > > I removed that cpu board out and took a couple of pictures. There is one > connector, on the top, with two notches in it. Same as the controller board > I just bought. I would assume that is the DSSI connector? > > http://postimg.org/gallery/1iafnu1oa/ > Yes, that is an M7626 KA660 VAX 4000-200 CPU. The blue connector is the H3602 console panel connector, the bottom grey connector is the memory connector, and the top grey connector with two notches is the DSSI connector. Normally in a BA213 style chassis setup for DSSI disks there would be a white round cable that feeds down from the storage section on top which breaks out into the 50-pin plug to connect to the DSSI controller. It would look similar to the 26-pin cable for the TK70 tape drive, only the cable would be thicker and the connector wider. In your pictures there is 50-pin flat ribbon cable feeding down from the storage section. I'm not sure what that would be doing in your system, that doesn't look like something standard. -Glen
Re: PDT-11/150 Field Maintenance Print Set wanted
what all do you want? On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 12:59 AM, Eric Smith wrote: > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:40 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: > > I might have a hard copy I can loan you. Can you scan a copy for > bitsavers? > > Yes. I'd be glad to do that, and mail it back. Thank you! >
Re: Triprocessor PDP-10 [Was: Re: [multicians] Emacs humor]
On Wed, Dec 02, 2015 at 06:47:12PM +, Rich Alderson wrote:
> From: Pontus Pihlgren
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 12:19 AM
>
> > On Wed, Dec 02, 2015 at 02:13:06AM +, Rich Alderson wrote:
>
> >> KL-10/PDP-10/PDP-6 triprocessor, and KL-10/PDP-10 dual processor and
>
> > You make it sound like someone hacked up a computer consisting of one
> > KL-10, one PDP-10 and one PDP-6. But I assume you mean homogenic
> > three-processor machines?
>
> You assume incorrectly. I mean exactly what it sounds like.
Wow, that's impressive. How was it done? Was it done with DEC or was it
a local "hack"?
>
> > Who, besides Peter Löthberg, ran threeprocessor machines?
>
> Lots of places. The folks at Oak Ridge ("Atomic City") ran a 5-processor
> SMP configuration.
Five! that must have been a sight to behold.
Also, thanks to Phil and Michael for their lists.
Cheers,
Pontus.
