Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove]

On 18 June 2015 at 10:33, Sean Caron  wrote:
> Hi Christian,
>
> I'm guessing by the CLLI code in your sig, you're maybe close to St.
> Catharines, ON, CA?
>
Close; actually, I'm in Stoney Creek/Hamilton, ON, CA.

> If that's true, I just wanted to let you know that - IIRC - there is a
> SR-71 on static display within a car trip of your location in Kalamazoo, MI
> at the Kalamazoo Air Zoo. It's actually a B-model ... trainer ... I saw it
> a few years ago when I was in town visiting my parents and it was pretty
> cool ... I think it's still there:
>
Oh yes, I've heard of it. But a vision impairment means I can't drive,
which limits my ability to drive out to Michigan. Though I do plan on
visiting it sometime. Meanwhile the Canadian War Plane Heritage Museum
is two (city) bus trips away, so that's a nice plus.

> http://www.airzoo.org/page.php?page_id=192
>
> It doesn't do flying demos but it is a complete aircraft in "mint"
> condition and you can get right up there and touch it.
>
I don't think any of the SR-71s do flying demos, do they?


I was born too late to see the SR-71 fly. I could still see a U-2 fly
though (those are also neat planes). There's so many cool planes, and
so little time to experience them all. (SR-71/A-12, U-2, B-52, CF-105,
Avro Lancaster, Supermarine Spitfire, Hawker Hurricane, Messerschmitt
Bf 109, Avro Vulcan, Antonov An-225, Concorde, Mitsubishi A6M Zero,
North American P-51 Mustang, Junkers Ju 52... and that list is
incomplete.)


Cheers,
Christian
-- 
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[jwsmobile]

On 6/19/2015 4:24 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:

I don't think any of the SR-71s do flying demos, do they?


NASA attempted to keep one airframe (don't recall which one) flying for 
research.  The effort didn't last long, however.


I got involved in an interesting way.  A friend who sold tape drive 
parts for Kennedy and for CDC as well as SCSI drives of various types 
had a company called Fintec in Laguna Hills, Ca.  Right off the approach 
to El Toro which was still flying, FWIW. Visits were always great when 
the Marines were flying.


Anyway, he specialized later to try to keep a business going as the 
drive business wound down selling various adapters.  One he had come 
across was a device made in Great Britain which would present a 
formatted Pertec tape interface to a host and allow one to run a SCSI 
drive on the other side.


He had gotten a call for an application which puzzled him, as he didn't 
know a lot beyond the basics, so I got invited to a meeting with his 
potential client.  Turned out that a fellow in a white shirt and tie, 
missing only the pocket protector showed up and was from a firm in Burbank.


the SR71 turns out didn't have a lot of gear on board to tell directly 
where it had been other than basic instruments, and what it did was 
record a lot of data in some onboard electronics.  Once it landed from 
one of its original missions you had a pile of exposed film on board, 
and the information of where you'd been at mach 3 in the computer.


One of the many support systems you had to have to make an SR71 happy 
was a couple of 10' or so containers.  One had the gear to plug into the 
airframe and transcribe the information to a tape (luckily it was a 
Pertec formatted drive, or at least his customers was).  Once the 
information played out of the airframe and was on the tape, the tape was 
taken to a Vac 7xx of some sort in the other container which was up and 
running by then, and a big pile of ADA and Fortran made a table that 
made all the exposed film useful.


The proposal was to take one of my friends boards, and toss the two 
containers and replace it with a Sparcbook (or whatever on that scale 
Sun proposed).  The entire pile of software was guaranteed by another 
bidder to do the job of telling where the plane had been w/o the 
original stuff, and run completely on the Sparc system.  It was to be a 
laptop according to the guy we talked to.  The information would be 
available on the flight line, rather than some time later, making it 
perfect for such as NASA.


My understanding was that the format was classified, so we had also to 
guarantee it would work w/o ever seeing any data.


I told my buddy @ Fintec and the gentleman from Burbank, that I'd be 
glad to deliver all the boards he needed for a check ride :-)


Anyway they never ordered any product, and not that long after the 
absolute last hope of them ever flying was canceled.


Also, I was told that the orders had been made to gather all the 
containers of equipment I mentioned above somewhere at Edwards and 
destroy it.  The SR71 program was not canceled, it was destroyed with 
prejudice.  I think it had risen from the ashes so many times, and was 
such a suck on the budgets of the involved agencies, that they wanted to 
kill it with a stake thru its heart this time.  Very sad.


I've probably told this in the distant past, but it is something I'd 
have at least liked to turn into a visit to see one of the things while 
it was operational.  I also never saw one flying.


The closest I came to an aircraft in this class was an almost on a 
Concorde Ticket in the late 70's when an upgrade to first class could 
get you near to the Concorde fare, and then on a visit in the 90's I got 
to see one take off like a rocket @ Heathrow.


Would be curious if the ones here who do tape remember doing business 
with Fintec, or any of the guys who used to trade drives and repair 
services.  I knew a lot of them and supplied parts and help to them thru 
the 70's and 80's.


thanks
Jim

Front Panels - Type survay

[Rod Smallwood]

Hi Guys
Well the panels are steadily getting to their new homes.
The feed back has thrown up some interesting information
Mainly that not all 8/e panels are the same. So I'm doing a little survey
to see if I can produce the different types.

In addition I have been asked about panels for other than 8/e
So I have put a question for that.


Just delete as required and send it back to me :

 Rod

PDP 8/e

1. My 8/e  has dividing lines between the groups of lights. 
Yes/No


2. My 8/e  has  selector switch positions   1 + 6 
Vertical/Angled


3. My 8/e  has a line round the Selector Switch area 
Yes/No


4. My 8e serial number is

 5. Anything else

I'm also interested in front panels for

PDP8/Syes/no

PDP8/Iyes/no

PDP8/Lyes/no

PDP8/Fyes/no


PDP8/Myes/no


Early PDP's 1-15yes/no


Early 11'syes/no


Non Dec systems

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Peter Cetinski]

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 7:50 AM, jwsmobile  wrote:
> 
> The closest I came to an aircraft in this class was an almost on a Concorde 
> Ticket in the late 70's when an upgrade to first class could get you near to 
> the Concorde fare, and then on a visit in the 90's I got to see one take off 
> like a rocket @ Heathrow.
> 
> thanks
> Jim

I remember the first time I saw Concorde as a boy.  I was at JFK, I think to 
see off my grandmother who was taking a trip back to the old country.  I’m 
standing at one of the large windows looking out at the flightline when all of 
a sudden, from the right, at what seemed to me to be just a few hundred feet 
above the terminal building, comes this giant roaring bird at what seemed to be 
a 30 degree bank after just taking off.  My little boy jaw just dropped as I 
watched this screaming monster white dragon fly by.  

What the heck has happened to us that we can build these planes 50 years ago 
that are unsurpassed even today?  Sad.

RE: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Dave G4UGM]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> Cetinski
> Sent: 19 June 2015 13:26
> To: jwsm...@jwsss.com; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc
> 
> 
> > On Jun 19, 2015, at 7:50 AM, jwsmobile  wrote:
> >
> > The closest I came to an aircraft in this class was an almost on a Concorde
> Ticket in the late 70's when an upgrade to first class could get you near to 
> the
> Concorde fare, and then on a visit in the 90's I got to see one take off like 
> a
> rocket @ Heathrow.
> >
> > thanks
> > Jim
> 
> I remember the first time I saw Concorde as a boy.  I was at JFK, I think to 
> see
> off my grandmother who was taking a trip back to the old country.  I’m
> standing at one of the large windows looking out at the flightline when all of
> a sudden, from the right, at what seemed to me to be just a few hundred
> feet above the terminal building, comes this giant roaring bird at what
> seemed to be a 30 degree bank after just taking off.  My little boy jaw just
> dropped as I watched this screaming monster white dragon fly by.

I once got held, waiting for a runway, probably London Heathrow but somehow 
Manchester sticks in my head. Any way there was a Concorde queued infront of 
use waiting for a Concorde to land.
So I go to watch a landing and a takeoff...

> 
> What the heck has happened to us that we can build these planes 50 years
> ago that are unsurpassed even today?  Sad.

Well firstly governments had money. Concorde must have cost the British and 
French tax payers millions...
As for progress, the A380 might not be so fast, but I bet in total bandwidth 
the through put is higher

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/airbus-still-weighing-an-expensive-revamp-to-its-flagship-a380/


Dave
G4UGM

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Rod Smallwood]

The BA Concordes at Heathrow lived in a hanger at the eastern end of  
the main runway.
The perimiter road intersected the main runway so the bit with the 
hanger was to the left and the main runway to the right.

No fences no gates.

The Concordes would be towed by the usual tug  to and from the terminal 
area to the hanger.
A guy in a little hut (moreof him later)would switch on a sign saying 
'Aircraft crossing - STOP'
Cars would stop and the Concorde would be towed across and the the sign 
would go off.
I had this happen loads of times as the DEC wharehouse was on the south 
side of the airport .


Well one fine day I drive down and on goes the light and  I stop and yes 
here comes the Concorde and across it goes

and out goes the sign and I start to move with the queue across the gap.

Then it hits me where is the tug? OMG its taxying on engines and is 
about a hundred yards up the  runway.
They wouldn't would they. Oh yes they did! Full throttle full 
afterburner and off down the runway.
The guy in his little hut passed me going east at about 30MPH and those 
of in

cars got about 7.9 on the Richter scale in shaking.
Piles of rust and dust were left behind when the cars moved off.

Rod



On 19/06/2015 13:26, Peter Cetinski wrote:

On Jun 19, 2015, at 7:50 AM, jwsmobile  wrote:

The closest I came to an aircraft in this class was an almost on a Concorde 
Ticket in the late 70's when an upgrade to first class could get you near to 
the Concorde fare, and then on a visit in the 90's I got to see one take off 
like a rocket @ Heathrow.

thanks
Jim

I remember the first time I saw Concorde as a boy.  I was at JFK, I think to 
see off my grandmother who was taking a trip back to the old country.  I’m 
standing at one of the large windows looking out at the flightline when all of 
a sudden, from the right, at what seemed to me to be just a few hundred feet 
above the terminal building, comes this giant roaring bird at what seemed to be 
a 30 degree bank after just taking off.  My little boy jaw just dropped as I 
watched this screaming monster white dragon fly by.

What the heck has happened to us that we can build these planes 50 years ago 
that are unsurpassed even today?  Sad.

HP 2113e Battery resistor

[pdaguytom .]

Need help with my 2113e,  can someone take a look at their 1000 series that
using the 820ohm resistor on the battery input and tell me which pins to
shunt?  Looking at the plug on the rear of the machine there are nine holes
arranged 3x3.  I've found TerraHertz's tear down and he shows the shunt
plug with the resistor but I can't tell the orientation.

Thanks,
Tom

Re: Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[jdr_...@bluewin.ch]

Ursprüngliche Nachricht
Von : captainkirk...@gmail.com

..snipped...

North American P-51 Mustang, Junkers Ju 52... and that list is

..snipped...

If the lowly JU52 really fancies you, then you can visit my  place, where said 
airplane passes multiple times a day  during  summer season.
You can book flights on it at  www.ju-air.ch
For the right amount of  $ you can also book flights on a Hawker Hunter or even 
a De Havilland  Venom ( yes, really...)
The Lockheed Superconnie, however,  is a much rarer sight here ( ca. once a 
year )


Jos Dreesen

Re: HP 2113e Battery resistor

[Glen Slick]

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 6:10 AM, pdaguytom .  wrote:
> Need help with my 2113e,  can someone take a look at their 1000 series that
> using the 820ohm resistor on the battery input and tell me which pins to
> shunt?  Looking at the plug on the rear of the machine there are nine holes
> arranged 3x3.  I've found TerraHertz's tear down and he shows the shunt
> plug with the resistor but I can't tell the orientation.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom

The Temperature Sense Thermistor RT1, normaly 815 ohms, is wired
across the two outside pins of the middle row, pins 4 and 6.

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Jun79_9.pdf

Description page 111
Schematic page 168

Re: HP 2113e Battery resistor

[pdaguytom .]

Perfect.  Thanks Glen.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 8:37 AM, Glen Slick  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 6:10 AM, pdaguytom .  wrote:
> > Need help with my 2113e,  can someone take a look at their 1000 series
> that
> > using the 820ohm resistor on the battery input and tell me which pins to
> > shunt?  Looking at the plug on the rear of the machine there are nine
> holes
> > arranged 3x3.  I've found TerraHertz's tear down and he shows the shunt
> > plug with the resistor but I can't tell the orientation.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tom
>
> The Temperature Sense Thermistor RT1, normaly 815 ohms, is wired
> across the two outside pins of the middle row, pins 4 and 6.
>
>
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Jun79_9.pdf
>
> Description page 111
> Schematic page 168
>

IBM 3277's for sale

[Benjamin Huntsman]

There are two IBM 3277's for sale on www.publicsurplus.com at this moment.
Starting bids at right around $10.  No buyers yet.

I don't currently have the space for them, but it'd be good if someone picked 
them up before they make their way to a scrapper...

I'm not the seller, nor do I know who is.  Just saw them and thought some 
people here might be interested.

-Ben

AlphaServers?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Does anyone here know why certain AlphaServers are worth such seemingly high 
prices on eBay still?

Particularly the DS15's seem to be worth their weight in gold, and the DS10's 
still sell for quite a bit.  I see DS25's and ES47/ES80's get listed all the 
time for fairly high prices, but never sell.  I'm just wondering why the 
difference.

Given that the Alphas have been end-of-life and kind of dead-end for a while 
now, I'd have thought some of the more recent ones would have fallen into the 
realm of hobbyist affordability by now.  Especially since I can buy a much 
newer IBM Power6 for less than a DS15 these days...

Does anyone here do Alpha gear, especially the newer stuff?  

Thanks!

-Ben

Re: IBM 3277's for sale

[Dennis Boone]

 > There are two IBM 3277's for sale on www.publicsurplus.com at this
 > moment.  Starting bids at right around $10.  No buyers yet.

It would probably be useful to indicate that these are at UIdaho
Surplus, that the auctions end in 8 hours, and that the auction numbers
are 1371255 and 1371262.

De

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[ANDY HOLT]

I was born too late to see the SR-71 fly. I could still see a U-2 fly
though (those are also neat planes). There's so many cool planes, and
so little time to experience them all. (SR-71/A-12, U-2, B-52, CF-105,
Avro Lancaster, Supermarine Spitfire, Hawker Hurricane, Messerschmitt
Bf 109, Avro Vulcan, Antonov An-225, Concorde, Mitsubishi A6M Zero,
North American P-51 Mustang, Junkers Ju 52... and that list is
incomplete.)


At RAF Duxford (less than an hours drive from my home) you can see
Concorde*, a SR-71, a Lancaster, a Vulcan**, one of the only two remaining 
TSR-2s***, a Bf109 and many many more.

* This was flown in to the airfield but could never be flown out again because 
the runway was then shortened for the building of the M11.
** There's another Vulcan less than 10 miles from my home :)
*** If you think the SR-71 was killed-off with unseemly haste read the history 
of the TSR-2
 I expect that quite a lot of Bf109s are currently being made airworthy in 
time for the75th anniversary of AdlerTag … it quite surprised me that there 
were more flyable than I might have guessed, but none in the possession of the 
RAF or the Confederate Airforce - but I'd bet that the Battle-of-Britain flight 
will have restored at least one from the RAF museum soon.
OK - fun question, when was the last time that Bf109s and Spitfires were in 
genuine aerial combat (and who flew which side)?
(Last time both were flying in close proximity was probably during the making 
of the film "Battle of Britain" in 1968/9)

Yes, I know this is OT - but does seem a popular thread.

Andy

Re: IBM 3277's for sale

[Guy Sotomayor]

Damn.  I *would* try and get them but they want local pickup only. :-(

TTFN - Guy


On 6/19/15 7:55 AM, Dennis Boone wrote:

  > There are two IBM 3277's for sale on www.publicsurplus.com at this
  > moment.  Starting bids at right around $10.  No buyers yet.

It would probably be useful to indicate that these are at UIdaho
Surplus, that the auctions end in 8 hours, and that the auction numbers
are 1371255 and 1371262.

De

Re: AlphaServers?

[Toby Thain]

On 2015-06-19 10:51 AM, Benjamin Huntsman wrote:

Does anyone here know why certain AlphaServers are worth such seemingly high 
prices on eBay still?



The obvious(?) answer is that they are still used commercially.

I think this explains the phenomenon for even older hardware than Alpha too.

--Toby


Particularly the DS15's seem to be worth their weight in gold, and the DS10's 
still sell for quite a bit.  I see DS25's and ES47/ES80's get listed all the 
time for fairly high prices, but never sell.  I'm just wondering why the 
difference.

Given that the Alphas have been end-of-life and kind of dead-end for a while 
now, I'd have thought some of the more recent ones would have fallen into the 
realm of hobbyist affordability by now.  Especially since I can buy a much 
newer IBM Power6 for less than a DS15 these days...

Does anyone here do Alpha gear, especially the newer stuff?

Thanks!

-Ben

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[Noel Chiappa]

Thanks to everyone for trying to help, but I'm not sure we've cracked it yet.
This coating is _not_ a lubricant: it's a hard, thin even coating over the
entire piece; it cannot be easily scraped off (e.g. with a fingernail), but
requires a knife tip or somesuch. So I think that rules out the molybdenum
disulfide suggestion.

A few comments to various replies:


> From: Rod Smallwood

> It might be cadmium

I don't think so; cad-plating produces a surface which is either silver, or
yellowish (cadmium dichromate). (The yellowish coating one often sees on
later DEC equipment is probably not cad, but zinc-dichromate; see here:

  http://429mustangcougarinfo.50megs.com/new_page_26.htm

for a good intro to distinguishing platings. This makes it sound like we
might be dealing with some sort of phosphate plating.)


> From: Mike Ross

> I do hope not; that stuff is *seriously* toxic.

Indeed: "Cadmium is very toxic and should not be used on any part intended
for use where direct food contact could occur"; but it is/was used to plate
things (especially in the aerospace industry, where it reduces the tendency
to galvanic corrosion when placed in contact with aluminium).


> From: Al Kossow

> molybdenum

Did you mean molybdenum disulfide (which I don't think it can be, for the
reasons given above), or some other form?


> From: Chuck Guzis

> If this is a small job and you need a solid coating, have a look at
> some of the moly-teflon rattle-can gun coatings from Brownell. You
> spray them on, then bake them. The finish is very tough and pretty much
> foolproof.

Right, but I'm not just looking for _a_ coating, I would really prefer to use
_the_ coating that DEC did originally (if it's still available, of course).

> I've got a few HP slides from a storage array and I'll swear they're
> just plain old electroplated zinc.

Some off-brand slides are zinc; and, as I said, I think a lot of later DEC
stuff (racks and frames) is dichromate zinc.


> From: William Donzelli


> [dry moly disulfide] can be mixed with a resin binder and thinly
> painted on surfaces, like rack slides.

Right, but this coating doesn't look like it was painted on. It's got a
finely textured surface that is rougher even than flat paint.

Noel

Re: AlphaServers?

[Richard Loken]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015, Benjamin Huntsman wrote:

> Does anyone here do Alpha gear, especially the newer stuff?

I am baby sitting three ES45s, two DS20s, and a DS15 all running Tru64 Unix
5.X.  Yes, you can buy a used Dell desktop at any garage sale that has more
memory and CPU than a DS20 but it doesn't run Alpha VMS or Tru64 apps and
that is not very helpful if your data centre has one or more Alpha
applications that are still in use.

The DS15 is the newest of the hardware you listed and only 2 or 3 rack units
high so it relatively compact and less power hungry than most of its older
brothers.  The DS20 is bigger but still can be put in a modest amount of
space and the lights don't dim when you turn it on.  The ES45 is a large box
(but smaller than my AS4100) able to accept four 2GHz CPUs and 32Gbyte of
RAM from the days when that was impressive - it is a big pig.

In my humble opinion, Tru64 Unix is a very good operating system and the
advanced file system is very reliable with clustering capability and a
distributed lock manager - they were attempting (successfully) to provide
the high uptime/clustering features of VMS on Unix.  If Linux keeps at it
for another ten years, they might almost catch up.

My employer is supposed to be migrating the apps off of the Alphas and onto
Linux by the end of 2015 but, by their past performance in such endeavers,
some of the Alphas could be running for another five years.  They pay about
$50,000.00 a year to HP for support so it would have been worth their while
to finish this migration years ago.

I will get my pick of them as they are shut off so I might put OpenVMS one
of them, maybe I will even use it to replace my AS4100 which was the box
that the ES45 replaced some 15 years ago.

-- 
   Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anybody can be a father
   Athabasca University:  but you have to earn
   Athabasca, Alberta Canada   :  the title of 'daddy'"
   ** richar...@admin.athabascau.ca ** :  - Lynn Johnston

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[geneb]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015, ANDY HOLT wrote:



 I expect that quite a lot of Bf109s are currently being made 
airworthy in time for the75th anniversary of AdlerTag … it quite 
surprised me that there were more flyable than I might have guessed, but 
none in the possession of the RAF or the Confederate Airforce - but I'd 
bet that the Battle-of-Britain flight will have restored at least one 
from the RAF museum soon. OK - fun question, when was the last time that 
Bf109s and Spitfires were in genuine aerial combat (and who flew which 
side)? (Last time both were flying in close proximity was probably 
during the making of the film "Battle of Britain" in 1968/9)



I suspect in actual combat would be 1947 in Israel (as the S-199).
The aircraft used in the film were all Buchons, not "real" Bf-109s.
There are a surprising number (4+) of "new build" Bf-109G and K models. 
They're "technically" restorations because they're building around an 
existing data plate.  A leader in this is Arsenal 45.  They've already 
finished the build of a brand new Bf-109K4.  There are also a few people 
involved with building brand new DB-601 engines based on scanned parts, 
original engineering drawings and newly created drawings from existing 
parts.


This ties nicely into this: http://www.simpits.org/geneb/?p=365
*huge grin*

g.


--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[Al Kossow]

On 6/19/15 8:22 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

Thanks to everyone for trying to help, but I'm not sure we've cracked it yet.



Chassis Trak is still around as part of General Devices, why don't you ask them?
http://generaldevices.thomasnet.com/category/solid-bearing-slides

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove]

On 19 June 2015 at 10:58, ANDY HOLT  wrote:
> At RAF Duxford (less than an hours drive from my home) you can see
> Concorde*, a SR-71, a Lancaster, a Vulcan**, one of the only two remaining 
> TSR-2s***, a Bf109 and many many more.
>
Is the Lancaster at Duxford the other flightworthy one? I can't recall.


> * This was flown in to the airfield but could never be flown out again 
> because the runway was then shortened for the building of the M11.
Well, that's a good way to "steal" a plane for display, hah.


> ** There's another Vulcan less than 10 miles from my home :)
> *** If you think the SR-71 was killed-off with unseemly haste read the 
> history of the TSR-2
Avro Canada CF-105 "Arrow"; look it up, and see why one of the first
things I plan to do if someone ever invents a time machine is go back
to 1959 and introduced my steel toe boots to Diefenbaker's crotch,
repeatedly.

Then again, that did give us the Gemini capsule, since I believe
McDonnell (among others) ended up snapping up the unemployed Avro
Canada workers. (Thanks Diefenbaker, you screwed our aviation industry
in exchange for some shitty missiles we didn't want, and a bunch of
early warning radar sites that were obsolete in minutes... oh and
they're all environmental disaster sites.)


> Yes, I know this is OT - but does seem a popular thread.
>
I'm sorry, what was the original topic again? :P


Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
(DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.

Regards,
Christian
-- 
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.

Re: AlphaServers?

[Glen Slick]

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 7:51 AM, Benjamin Huntsman
 wrote:
> Does anyone here know why certain AlphaServers are worth such seemingly high 
> prices on eBay still?
>
> Particularly the DS15's seem to be worth their weight in gold, and the DS10's 
> still sell for quite a bit.  I see DS25's and ES47/ES80's get listed all the 
> time for fairly high prices, but never sell.  I'm just wondering why the 
> difference.
>
> Does anyone here do Alpha gear, especially the newer stuff?

I have two of the dual proc ES47 boxes and the cables to interconnect
them as a single quad proc system. I think 8GB of memory in each box.
The boxes themselves didn't cost too much, but the freight shipping on
a pallet wasn't cheap. They are heavy and long and awkward to set up
without a deep rack to put them in. I don't have a good space set
aside right now to properly and somewhat permanently set them up and I
have rarely powered them on. They are by far the fastest VMS system I
have but for hobby use have rarely been worth the bother.

-Glen

Re: AlphaServers?

[Richard Loken]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015, Toby Thain wrote:

> On 2015-06-19 10:51 AM, Benjamin Huntsman wrote:
> > Does anyone here know why certain AlphaServers are worth such seemingly
> > high prices on eBay still?

> The obvious(?) answer is that they are still used commercially.
>
> I think this explains the phenomenon for even older hardware than Alpha too.

Dow Chemical in Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta still has VAXen running some
version of VMS to control the process in their chemical plants.

About 15 years ago, a Compaq service technician told me that he had to
maintain a VAX-11/785 that controlled a Lockheed L1011 flight simulator in
Vancouver so there are probably still VAXen doing that job around the world.


-- 
   Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anybody can be a father
   Athabasca University:  but you have to earn
   Athabasca, Alberta Canada   :  the title of 'daddy'"
   ** richar...@admin.athabascau.ca ** :  - Lynn Johnston

Re: Need DZQ11 (M3106) Print Set

[Noel Chiappa]

I guess I've struck out here? That's such bad luck; other things, there are
multiple copies out there, but apparently none at all of this one...

Oh well, I guess I'll start with the DZQ11 TM, and with an ohm-meter try and
trace out the initialization circuitry (which is clearly broken) at least.

Noel

Re: Need DZQ11 (M3106) Print Set

[Paul Anderson]

Hi Noel,

If you get a minute call me this afternoon or evening.

Paul


On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Noel Chiappa 
wrote:

> I guess I've struck out here? That's such bad luck; other things, there are
> multiple copies out there, but apparently none at all of this one...
>
> Oh well, I guess I'll start with the DZQ11 TM, and with an ohm-meter try
> and
> trace out the initialization circuitry (which is clearly broken) at least.
>
> Noel
>

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2015-Jun-19, at 5:26 AM, Peter Cetinski wrote:
>> On Jun 19, 2015, at 7:50 AM, jwsmobile  wrote:
>> 
>> The closest I came to an aircraft in this class was an almost on a Concorde 
>> Ticket in the late 70's when an upgrade to first class could get you near to 
>> the Concorde fare, and then on a visit in the 90's I got to see one take off 
>> like a rocket @ Heathrow.
> 
> I remember the first time I saw Concorde as a boy.  I was at JFK, I think to 
> see off my grandmother who was taking a trip back to the old country.  I’m 
> standing at one of the large windows looking out at the flightline when all 
> of a sudden, from the right, at what seemed to me to be just a few hundred 
> feet above the terminal building, comes this giant roaring bird at what 
> seemed to be a 30 degree bank after just taking off.  My little boy jaw just 
> dropped as I watched this screaming monster white dragon fly by.  
> 
> What the heck has happened to us that we can build these planes 50 years ago 
> that are unsurpassed even today?  Sad.

Oh but we couldn't do it, you didn't really see it, it's an implanted memory. 
It's another great big government conspiracy, just like Apollo.

(satire, in case it isn't obvious)

(saw the Concordes twice, once here in vancouver, once at JFK)



On 2015-Jun-19, at 7:58 AM, ANDY HOLT wrote:
> *** If you think the SR-71 was killed-off with unseemly haste read the 
> history of the TSR-2

Here in Canada the feted story in this vein is the Avro Arrow. Scorched-earth 
policy invoked when the program was cancelled, next to nothing remains of them.

There actually are suggestions of conspiracy and subterfuge in that story.

Northrup Flying Wing - was Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Toby Thain]

On 2015-06-19 1:19 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:

On 2015-Jun-19, at 5:26 AM, Peter Cetinski wrote:

On Jun 19, 2015, at 7:50 AM, jwsmobile  wrote:

The closest I came to an aircraft in this class was an almost on a Concorde 
Ticket in the late 70's when an upgrade to first class could get you near to 
the Concorde fare, and then on a visit in the 90's I got to see one take off 
like a rocket @ Heathrow.


I remember the first time I saw Concorde as a boy.  I was at JFK, I think to 
see off my grandmother who was taking a trip back to the old country.  I’m 
standing at one of the large windows looking out at the flightline when all of 
a sudden, from the right, at what seemed to me to be just a few hundred feet 
above the terminal building, comes this giant roaring bird at what seemed to be 
a 30 degree bank after just taking off.  My little boy jaw just dropped as I 
watched this screaming monster white dragon fly by.

What the heck has happened to us that we can build these planes 50 years ago 
that are unsurpassed even today?  Sad.


Oh but we couldn't do it, you didn't really see it, it's an implanted memory. 
It's another great big government conspiracy, just like Apollo.

(satire, in case it isn't obvious)

(saw the Concordes twice, once here in vancouver, once at JFK)



On 2015-Jun-19, at 7:58 AM, ANDY HOLT wrote:

*** If you think the SR-71 was killed-off with unseemly haste read the history 
of the TSR-2


Here in Canada the feted story in this vein is the Avro Arrow. Scorched-earth 
policy invoked when the program was cancelled, next to nothing remains of them.

There actually are suggestions of conspiracy and subterfuge in that story.





Yeah - just last night I was looking at some Northrup material on 
Flickr. Same deal with Northrup's "Flying Wing" - according to this 
source, even the drawings were destroyed.


I don't get it.

Comment: http://ur1.ca/mvh7k , et seq.

  "in 1949 the Air Force ordered all the flying wings destroyed, all 
the jigs and tools destroyed, every trace of the flying wing eradicated. 
A few years later even the engineering drawings were all destroyed by 
new Northrop management."


--Toby

Re: AlphaServers?

[Sean Caron]

I've often wondered that myself ... I wonder if someone out there is still
using Alpha machines in a mission-critical application ... of if it's just
kind of the storied history of the CPU, and the strong collector market for
anything that's DEC ... Nice stuff from the later years really seems to
hold value ... look at the VAXstation 4000! It seems like any Alpha system
commands rather high prices ... I've only got one left myself that I was
ever able to find for less than an arm and a leg ... an old DEC 3000/400
... I did have a DECpc AXP 150 once upon a time as well, unfortunately that
machine has been lost ... but yeah, I'm as curious as you; I wouldn't mind
taking on a few more Alphas but the prices are just too far out of my
ballpark on what I'm willing and able to pay for retrocomputing stuff these
days... I just got into amateur radio not too long ago and that's been
sucking up most of my disposable income lately :O

Best,

Sean


On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Benjamin Huntsman <
bhunts...@mail2.cu-portland.edu> wrote:

> Does anyone here know why certain AlphaServers are worth such seemingly
> high prices on eBay still?
>
> Particularly the DS15's seem to be worth their weight in gold, and the
> DS10's still sell for quite a bit.  I see DS25's and ES47/ES80's get listed
> all the time for fairly high prices, but never sell.  I'm just wondering
> why the difference.
>
> Given that the Alphas have been end-of-life and kind of dead-end for a
> while now, I'd have thought some of the more recent ones would have fallen
> into the realm of hobbyist affordability by now.  Especially since I can
> buy a much newer IBM Power6 for less than a DS15 these days...
>
> Does anyone here do Alpha gear, especially the newer stuff?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Ben
>

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Sean Caron]

There were so many neat war plane designs of the 50s and 60s that never
made it to volume production ... the BAC TSR-2, the Avro Canada Arrow ...
we have our share here in the USA as well i.e. the NAA XB-70 Valkyrie and
XF-108 Rapier... It's funny; it's the ones that were never produced in
volume that seem to capture the imagination the most. :O

Best,

Sean


On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 10:58 AM, ANDY HOLT  wrote:

> 
> I was born too late to see the SR-71 fly. I could still see a U-2 fly
> though (those are also neat planes). There's so many cool planes, and
> so little time to experience them all. (SR-71/A-12, U-2, B-52, CF-105,
> Avro Lancaster, Supermarine Spitfire, Hawker Hurricane, Messerschmitt
> Bf 109, Avro Vulcan, Antonov An-225, Concorde, Mitsubishi A6M Zero,
> North American P-51 Mustang, Junkers Ju 52... and that list is
> incomplete.)
> 
>
> At RAF Duxford (less than an hours drive from my home) you can see
> Concorde*, a SR-71, a Lancaster, a Vulcan**, one of the only two remaining
> TSR-2s***, a Bf109 and many many more.
>
> * This was flown in to the airfield but could never be flown out again
> because the runway was then shortened for the building of the M11.
> ** There's another Vulcan less than 10 miles from my home :)
> *** If you think the SR-71 was killed-off with unseemly haste read the
> history of the TSR-2
>  I expect that quite a lot of Bf109s are currently being made
> airworthy in time for the75th anniversary of AdlerTag … it quite surprised
> me that there were more flyable than I might have guessed, but none in the
> possession of the RAF or the Confederate Airforce - but I'd bet that the
> Battle-of-Britain flight will have restored at least one from the RAF
> museum soon.
> OK - fun question, when was the last time that Bf109s and Spitfires were
> in genuine aerial combat (and who flew which side)?
> (Last time both were flying in close proximity was probably during the
> making of the film "Battle of Britain" in 1968/9)
>
> Yes, I know this is OT - but does seem a popular thread.
>
> Andy
>
>

Will Anyone Sell Me A Couple Of DecTapes?

[Robert Adamson]

I need a couple of DecTapes to finish debugging (and to use) my TU56. There
haven't been any on Ebay or anywhere for many months. Does anyone have a
couple they'd be willing to sell me?

I'd prefer ones formatted from a pdp8 since that's what I'm using, but any
at all would do.

Anyone?

RE: Will Anyone Sell Me A Couple Of DecTapes?

[tony duell]

> I need a couple of DecTapes to finish debugging (and to use) my TU56. There
> haven't been any on Ebay or anywhere for many months. Does anyone have a
> couple they'd be willing to sell me?
> 
> I'd prefer ones formatted from a pdp8 since that's what I'm using, but any
> at all would do.

I notice you're (probably) in the UK.

If you get no other offers, I can almost certainly find you a couple of reels. 
No idea what
is on them, I have a (single drive) TU56 [1] on my PDP8/e which came off 
another 8/e. Since the
tapes came with it, I would guess they're formatted for a PDP8 system, but I 
can't be sure. I have
never had the time to get it all working...

[1] No, not a TU55. This is a TU56 with just one transport and a blanking plate 
over the other holes, It is
an official DEC variant.

Where are you in the UK? I am wondering if I have to trust ParcelFarce with 
them...

-tony

Re: Will Anyone Sell Me A Couple Of DecTapes?

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove]

On Friday, 19 June 2015, tony duell  wrote:
>
> [1] No, not a TU55. This is a TU56 with just one transport and a blanking
> plate over the other holes, It is
> an official DEC variant.
>
> TU56H  is the name of that one. If I recall correctly.


Cheers,
Christian


-- 
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.

RE: DEC Logo (was: Front Panels Personal Update)

[Rich Alderson]

From: Chris Osborn
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 11:21 AM

> On Jun 18, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Rich Alderson 
> wrote:

>>> That’s the modern Digital logo, not the DEC logo that looks like the
>>> plug-in cards. I thought you had a ps of the original pre-1957 DEC
>>> logo.

>> Pre-1957???  That would be a good trick…

> I’m just going along with what that web site said that they had a
> different logo and then in 1957 they got their current logo.

OK, I went off and had a look at the page.  It does not say that the
older logo existed before 1957 (when DEC was founded), only that it
was earlier than the familiar design.  You simply read too much into
the "designed in 1957" part.

I suspect that the date is wrong in any case, because the "dec" logo is
obscurely visible on the #1103 System Building Block seen in the picture
on the Wikipedia page,[1] and first ship on those modules was 1958.

Rich

[1] Hey, the pictures, unlike the text, aren't open to dispute, much.


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Re: HP 2113e Battery resistor

[Glen Slick]

BTW, are you building your own plug with the ~820 ohm resister? For
now I just have something kludged up with dangling wires attached to a
resister and no proper pins and plug housing. When I looked for the
correct plug housing in the past it seemed that part was no longer
available for purchase that I could find. Have you found a proper plug
housing to use for this?

I have one of these 12944-60002 cables and can only see the AMP brand
on the connectors and no part number:
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102728386


-Glen

Re: Northrup Flying Wing - was Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[geneb]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015, Toby Thain wrote:



 "in 1949 the Air Force ordered all the flying wings destroyed, all the jigs 
and tools destroyed, every trace of the flying wing eradicated. A few years 
later even the engineering drawings were all destroyed by new Northrop 
management."


I don't know why they went to those lengths, but it's my understanding 
that the program was cancelled because at the time, the USAAF (USAF?) 
mandated stall testing as part of their development programs.  Without 
serious flight control computers, stalling a flying wing just ends up in a 
freshly planted aluminum tree.  Even WITH good computers, stalling a 
flying wing is a Bad Idea(tm).  AFAIK, the B-2 has never been stalled (on 
purpose), even during development.


g.


--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: HP 2113e Battery resistor

[pdaguytom .]

I've got some pins that appear to be the right size from when I was making
battery packs (electric R/C) that I plan to solder to the resistor with a
little bit of heat shrink on each leg to keep from starting fires or other
exciting things from happening.  A sorta kludge.  I remember using these
style plugs when I was at Timex working as a tech in there Thinfilm dept.
Dang, that was 30 years ago!

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Glen Slick  wrote:

> BTW, are you building your own plug with the ~820 ohm resister? For
> now I just have something kludged up with dangling wires attached to a
> resister and no proper pins and plug housing. When I looked for the
> correct plug housing in the past it seemed that part was no longer
> available for purchase that I could find. Have you found a proper plug
> housing to use for this?
>
> I have one of these 12944-60002 cables and can only see the AMP brand
> on the connectors and no part number:
> http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102728386
>
>
> -Glen
>

Re: Northrup Flying Wing - was Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Toby Thain]

On 2015-06-19 3:05 PM, geneb wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015, Toby Thain wrote:



 "in 1949 the Air Force ordered all the flying wings destroyed, all
the jigs and tools destroyed, every trace of the flying wing
eradicated. A few years later even the engineering drawings were all
destroyed by new Northrop management."


I don't know why they went to those lengths, but it's my understanding
that the program was cancelled because at the time, the USAAF (USAF?)
mandated stall testing as part of their development programs.  Without
serious flight control computers, stalling a flying wing just ends up in
a freshly planted aluminum tree.  Even WITH good computers, stalling a
flying wing is a Bad Idea(tm).  AFAIK, the B-2 has never been stalled
(on purpose), even during development.


Thanks. I knew there must be more to it... I wonder if the cited book 
covers this angle.


--Toby




g.

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[ANDY HOLT]

- Original Message -
From: "Christian Gauger-Cosgrove" 

Is the Lancaster at Duxford the other flightworthy one? I can't recall.

No 


Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
(DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.


Not finding it easy to get a definitive answer but

It's a fair bet that some military computers using the PDP/11 architecture were 
used … probably on AEW, AWACS, and maritime patrol planes.
Brits will, of course, have used UK computers such as versions of the GEC2050 
or GEC4080 or possibly versions of the Ferranti Argus range (though those may 
have been too heavy for airborne use as they were designed for shipboard use)

DEC M452 module oscillator/ was Re: using new technology on old machines

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2015-Jun-17, at 7:31 AM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
>> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel Chiappa
>>> From: Dave G4UGM
>> 
>>> I found it easier to think of it in DC terms. So the Cap charges
>>> through R5 + R3 and R9 + R8.
>>> As the Cap charges the voltage on the base of Q1 rises until it turns
>>> on, which then turns on Q2.
>>> At this point the cap is then charged (or discharged) in the reverse
>>> direction via Q2, D5 and R4 until Q1 turns off.
>> 
>> I'm clearly never going to be any good at analog stuff! ;-) Even with what
>> looks (on the surface) to be a wonderfully clear explanation of how the
>> circuit works, I still can't really grok how it operates!
>> 
>> I mean, I can tell from the polarity on the cap that the collector of Q2 
>> must be
>> at a higher voltage than the base of Q1, but I am utterly failing to 
>> understand
>> how the cap discharges through Q2. And as the cap charges (i.e.
>> the voltage across it increases), how does the voltage on the base of Q1
>> increase - surely it must be decreasing (since it's tied to the negative 
>> side of
>> the cap, which is experiencing a voltage increase across itself)?
> 
> I think the cap is mildly abused. I believe that it is reverse charged.

While I was at the bench working on another project I took a couple of minutes 
to breadboard the circuit (Q1-Q3), turns out it switches before the capacitor 
goes into reverse charge, so the cap does retain the proper polarisation 
throughout the charge/discharge operation cycle.

Experimented with separating R8/R9 into isolated emitter-bias and 
collector-load resistors, can still be made to oscillate but becomes more 
touchy, so I do suspect the particular oscillator design was chosen for 
stability, also considering a common flip-flop astable could have been in fewer 
components.

(Coincidentally, the other project was repairing one of those common flip-flop 
astables (master clock in a 1971 calculator) which was intermittent. 
Measurements ruled out the Rs as a problem, so narrowed it down to the two 
transistors and the two capacitors, at which point it became a question of 
shotgun replacing all 4 components versus trying to isolate it further. Tried 
individual hot / cold checking of the 4, the osc. rigorously stopped with heat 
applied to a 60pF ceramic cap and restarts after blowing it cool.)

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Peter Cetinski]

> 
> Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
> (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
> aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.
> 
> 
> Not finding it easy to get a definitive answer but
> 
> It's a fair bet that some military computers using the PDP/11 architecture 
> were used … probably on AEW, AWACS, and maritime patrol planes.
> Brits will, of course, have used UK computers such as versions of the GEC2050 
> or GEC4080 or possibly versions of the Ferranti Argus range (though those may 
> have been too heavy for airborne use as they were designed for shipboard use)

Well, I’ve heard that the TRS-80 Model I was used on the USS Enterprise NCC-1701

https://youtu.be/I0a86rWE5cc 

RE: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Dave G4UGM]

I believe that the NERC for whom I used to work had PDP/11's on ships. There is 
a report here:-

http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/14170/1/14170-01.pdf

about an 11/04 data logging system. I also understand that earlier ships had 
IBM1130's on board
... this mentions a portable IBM1130

https://www.bodc.ac.uk/data/information_and_inventories/cruise_inventory/report/shackleton3_4_75_data_report.pdf

so perhaps as being the first personal computer it was the first portable as 
well...

Dave Wade
G4UGM

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ANDY
> HOLT
> Sent: 19 June 2015 20:12
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Christian Gauger-Cosgrove" 
> 
> Is the Lancaster at Duxford the other flightworthy one? I can't recall.
> 
> No
> 
> 
> Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers (DEC
> PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on aircraft?
> Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.
> 
> 
> Not finding it easy to get a definitive answer but
> 
> It's a fair bet that some military computers using the PDP/11 architecture
> were used … probably on AEW, AWACS, and maritime patrol planes.
> Brits will, of course, have used UK computers such as versions of the
> GEC2050 or GEC4080 or possibly versions of the Ferranti Argus range (though
> those may have been too heavy for airborne use as they were designed for
> shipboard use)

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[William Donzelli]

> Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
> (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
> aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.

DEC architecture machines were in the serious minority when it came to
military computers in combat service. DG/Rolm was huge, as was Univac.
IBM, Burroughs, and CDC had a slice of the market as well.

--
Will

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[William Donzelli]

> It's a fair bet that some military computers using the PDP/11 architecture 
> were used … probably on AEW, AWACS, and maritime patrol planes.

I think they were IBM based (4pi?). The disk drives were ruggedized 2314s.

--
Will

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Paul Koning]

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:54 PM, Dave G4UGM  wrote:
> 
> I believe that the NERC for whom I used to work had PDP/11's on ships. 

I don’t know that one.  But I do know that RC25 support in RSTS/E was driven by 
a large Navy order for PDP-11 systems running RSTS/E on RC25 drives, for use 
aboard ship.  Or more precisely, if I remember correctly, aboard submarines.  
I’m not sure whose; some vague memory say Royal Navy but that may not be 
accurate.

paul

Northtop Flying Wing, inflight computing / was Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2015-Jun-19, at 9:07 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
> 
> Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
> (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
> aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.


On 2015-Jun-19, at 12:09 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
> On 2015-06-19 3:05 PM, geneb wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2015, Toby Thain wrote:
>>> 
>>> "in 1949 the Air Force ordered all the flying wings destroyed, all
>>> the jigs and tools destroyed, every trace of the flying wing
>>> eradicated. A few years later even the engineering drawings were all
>>> destroyed by new Northrop management."
>>> 
>> I don't know why they went to those lengths, but it's my understanding
>> that the program was cancelled because at the time, the USAAF (USAF?)
>> mandated stall testing as part of their development programs.  Without
>> serious flight control computers, stalling a flying wing just ends up in
>> a freshly planted aluminum tree.  Even WITH good computers, stalling a
>> flying wing is a Bad Idea(tm).  AFAIK, the B-2 has never been stalled
>> (on purpose), even during development.
> 
> Thanks. I knew there must be more to it... I wonder if the cited book covers 
> this angle.



To tie these two lines of question together (and bring it back very much 
on-topic), the BINAC (amongst the first stored-program computers, 1949)
was supplied to Northrop for research into airborne flight control (quick web 
search says part of the Snark missile project),

I'm not suggesting the BINAC and YB-49 (the flying wing) were connected, but 
it's interesting they were contemporary projects both at Northrop, and computer 
control was just what the flying wing needed.

mobile minis/ Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2015-Jun-19, at 9:07 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
> 
> Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
> (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
> aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.

Another example of shipboard use:

Quote from  HP Measure Oct 1976:
One of the first 2116As sold is still being used aboard a research 
vessel operated
by Woods Hole Institute of Oceanography in Massachusetts, which has 
purchased
at least a dozen other HP computers since then. The original one still 
works like a
charm ten years later-even though it's been bounced around, loaded and 
unloaded
and exposed to the corrosive salt air.

"One of the first 2116As" would place this at 1966-1967.

A pic here shows it being craned onto the ship.
http://hpmemoryproject.org/news/tenyears_comp/measure_page_00.htm

Re: mobile minis/ Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Guy Sotomayor]

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:08 PM, Brent Hilpert  wrote:
> 
> On 2015-Jun-19, at 9:07 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
>> 
>> Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
>> (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
>> aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.
> 
> Another example of shipboard use:
> 
> Quote from  HP Measure Oct 1976:
>   One of the first 2116As sold is still being used aboard a research 
> vessel operated
>   by Woods Hole Institute of Oceanography in Massachusetts, which has 
> purchased
>   at least a dozen other HP computers since then. The original one still 
> works like a
>   charm ten years later-even though it's been bounced around, loaded and 
> unloaded
>   and exposed to the corrosive salt air.
> 
> "One of the first 2116As" would place this at 1966-1967.
> 
> A pic here shows it being craned onto the ship.
>   http://hpmemoryproject.org/news/tenyears_comp/measure_page_00.htm

When I worked at IBM Boca Raton, on one of the buildings was a ship based radar.
It was installed to do testing for the ship mounted System/3 that IBM sold at 
the time.

TTFN - Guy

Re: Will Anyone Sell Me A Couple Of DecTapes?

[Ian S. King]

There's a formatter for DECtapes that can create 12-bit or 18-bit formats.
I don't recall the name off the top of my head, but ISTR it was easy to
find.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove <
captainkirk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 19 June 2015, tony duell  wrote:
> >
> > [1] No, not a TU55. This is a TU56 with just one transport and a blanking
> > plate over the other holes, It is
> > an official DEC variant.
> >
> > TU56H  is the name of that one. If I recall correctly.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Christian
>
>
> --
> Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
> STCKON08DS0
> Contact information available upon request.
>



-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: mobile minis/ Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[William Donzelli]

I can not think of a worse computer to do radar data analysis. Do you
mean System/360?

Still, Boca Raton was a S/3 stronghold.

--
Will

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:
>
>> On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:08 PM, Brent Hilpert  wrote:
>>
>> On 2015-Jun-19, at 9:07 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
>>>
>>> Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
>>> (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
>>> aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.
>>
>> Another example of shipboard use:
>>
>> Quote from  HP Measure Oct 1976:
>>   One of the first 2116As sold is still being used aboard a research 
>> vessel operated
>>   by Woods Hole Institute of Oceanography in Massachusetts, which has 
>> purchased
>>   at least a dozen other HP computers since then. The original one still 
>> works like a
>>   charm ten years later-even though it's been bounced around, loaded and 
>> unloaded
>>   and exposed to the corrosive salt air.
>>
>> "One of the first 2116As" would place this at 1966-1967.
>>
>> A pic here shows it being craned onto the ship.
>>   http://hpmemoryproject.org/news/tenyears_comp/measure_page_00.htm
>
> When I worked at IBM Boca Raton, on one of the buildings was a ship based 
> radar.
> It was installed to do testing for the ship mounted System/3 that IBM sold at 
> the time.
>
> TTFN - Guy
>
>

Re: mobile minis/ Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[William Donzelli]

On thinking more - could you mean System/7? That would make sense, and
it was a Boca Raton machine as well.

--
Will, who would like an S/7

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:
>
>> On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:08 PM, Brent Hilpert  wrote:
>>
>> On 2015-Jun-19, at 9:07 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
>>>
>>> Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
>>> (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
>>> aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.
>>
>> Another example of shipboard use:
>>
>> Quote from  HP Measure Oct 1976:
>>   One of the first 2116As sold is still being used aboard a research 
>> vessel operated
>>   by Woods Hole Institute of Oceanography in Massachusetts, which has 
>> purchased
>>   at least a dozen other HP computers since then. The original one still 
>> works like a
>>   charm ten years later-even though it's been bounced around, loaded and 
>> unloaded
>>   and exposed to the corrosive salt air.
>>
>> "One of the first 2116As" would place this at 1966-1967.
>>
>> A pic here shows it being craned onto the ship.
>>   http://hpmemoryproject.org/news/tenyears_comp/measure_page_00.htm
>
> When I worked at IBM Boca Raton, on one of the buildings was a ship based 
> radar.
> It was installed to do testing for the ship mounted System/3 that IBM sold at 
> the time.
>
> TTFN - Guy
>
>

Re: mobile minis/ Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Guy Sotomayor]

Ack!  You're right.  For some reason I was thinking about the System/3 and put
that down instead.

TTFN - Guy

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 4:10 PM, William Donzelli  wrote:
> 
> On thinking more - could you mean System/7? That would make sense, and
> it was a Boca Raton machine as well.
> 
> --
> Will, who would like an S/7
> 
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:08 PM, Brent Hilpert  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 2015-Jun-19, at 9:07 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
 
 Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
 (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
 aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.
>>> 
>>> Another example of shipboard use:
>>> 
>>> Quote from  HP Measure Oct 1976:
>>>  One of the first 2116As sold is still being used aboard a research 
>>> vessel operated
>>>  by Woods Hole Institute of Oceanography in Massachusetts, which has 
>>> purchased
>>>  at least a dozen other HP computers since then. The original one still 
>>> works like a
>>>  charm ten years later-even though it's been bounced around, loaded and 
>>> unloaded
>>>  and exposed to the corrosive salt air.
>>> 
>>> "One of the first 2116As" would place this at 1966-1967.
>>> 
>>> A pic here shows it being craned onto the ship.
>>>  http://hpmemoryproject.org/news/tenyears_comp/measure_page_00.htm
>> 
>> When I worked at IBM Boca Raton, on one of the buildings was a ship based 
>> radar.
>> It was installed to do testing for the ship mounted System/3 that IBM sold 
>> at the time.
>> 
>> TTFN - Guy
>> 
>> 

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Mike Stein]

- Original Message - 
From: "William Donzelli" 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic 
Posts" 

Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology 
etc



Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone 
know if any minicomputers
(DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et 
cetera) were ever used on
aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean 
setup and used on one.


DEC architecture machines were in the serious 
minority when it came to
military computers in combat service. DG/Rolm was 
huge, as was Univac.
IBM, Burroughs, and CDC had a slice of the market 
as well.


--
Will

- Reply -

Don't forget Cromemco:


From Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromemco

In 1981 a study was commissioned by the United 
States Air Force Systems Command to select a 
microcomputer for theTheater Air Control System 
(TACS). From a field of 149 microcomputers the 
Final Technical Report concluded that “the 
equipment offered by Cromemco is the most 
responsive to the general selection criteria.”[31] 
In the years following this study the United 
States Air Force became a major customer for 
Cromemco computers.[32] [33]


Cromemco developed a special version of the CS-200 
computer (called the CS-250) to meet the 
requirements of the Air Force's Mission Support 
System (MSS). The CS-250 had a removable hard disk 
based on patented Cromemco technology[34]The 
United States Air Force deployed 600 Cromemco 
Systems from 1985 to 1996 as Mission Support 
Systems for the F-15, F-16, and F-111 
aircraft.[35][36] These systems received their 
first war time use in Operation Desert Storm in 
1991.[37]

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Brian L. Stuart]

On Fri, 6/19/15, William Donzelli  wrote:
> DEC architecture machines were in the serious minority when it came to
> military computers in combat service.

It turns out that was partly by design.  Recently I was reading an
interview with Ken Olsen that I hadn't seen before.  In it he was
saying that particularly in the early days DEC made a point of
avoiding government, especially military, contracts.  All of the
special accounting and record keeping that was required was
more trouble than it was worth.

BLS

Re: Will Anyone Sell Me A Couple Of DecTapes?

[Paul Koning]

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:35 PM, Ian S. King  wrote:
> 
> There's a formatter for DECtapes that can create 12-bit or 18-bit formats.
> I don't recall the name off the top of my head, but ISTR it was easy to
> find.

The format is described in the manuals.  And while the PDP-11 formatter I have 
seen doesn’t do 12-bit format, it seems like it would be a simple programming 
exercise to convert it to produce that.   There’s nothing in the drive itself 
that gets in the way.

paul

Wright Line punch manual

[Dennis Boone]

Does anyone have routine maintenance information (e.g. user or service
manuals) for the Wright Line manual punches?  My newly acquired unit
seems to need a little lubrication.  I'll guess if I have to, but...

This is the variety with the large grey wheel on the side to select the
desired character, and a sort of "wheelhouse" in the middle to hide the
cams, ribbon mechanism, etc.  There's no model number sticker on it.

Thanks!

De

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Dennis Boone]

 > Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
 > (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
 > aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.

A friend of mine worked for DoE in Nevada.  They used to fly minis on
helicopters (detectors of some sort).  I think he said they were Novas.

De

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[William Donzelli]

They were probably Rolms, which were very much based of the Nova
architecture (compatible to the Nova 2, maybe?). I do not think Data
General actually made any milspec machines.

--
Will

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 8:31 PM, Dennis Boone  wrote:
>  > Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
>  > (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
>  > aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.
>
> A friend of mine worked for DoE in Nevada.  They used to fly minis on
> helicopters (detectors of some sort).  I think he said they were Novas.
>
> De

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Paul Koning]

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 8:31 PM, Dennis Boone  wrote:
> 
>> Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
>> (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
>> aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.
> 
> A friend of mine worked for DoE in Nevada.  They used to fly minis on
> helicopters (detectors of some sort).  I think he said they were Novas.

Speaking of weird military applications of small computers, I still have a 
paper from the early 1980s about using Ethernet and a small PDP-11 to measure 
nuclear warhead yield.

The scheme goes like this: run the Ethernet coax cable down the hole at the 
bottom of which sits the warhead being tested. The PDP-11 is at the top of the 
hole.  At T=0, start sending back to back Ethernet frames.  Record the TDR 
value associated with the transmit error for each failed transmit, and send 
that to the data collection site which is some miles away.

The changing TDR value will tell you how fast the Ethernet cable is evaporating.

I’m fairly sure this was real, not a made up story.  I should dig up the paper, 
it’s just one page long.

paul

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Dennis Boone]

 > They were probably Rolms, which were very much based of the Nova
 > architecture (compatible to the Nova 2, maybe?). I do not think Data
 > General actually made any milspec machines.

I don't know that they were _using_ milspec machines.  I'll have to ask
him next time I talk to him.

De

Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[William Donzelli]

> Don't forget Cromemco:

I think we can forget Cromemco.

The original poster wanted examples of minis "setup and used on one".
I doubt a Cromemco would survive long in flight service. This is why I
also pointed out "combat service", as opposed to being part of a test
set in an air and power conditioned hangar.

Military aircraft (and marine) service is *really* hard on equipment.

--
Will

Re: Wright Line punch manual

[COURYHOUSE]

PLEASE CC  me on this  if  you  turn one  up   we could  use at least a 
scan of it   we hae one of these   cute little things here  at the  SMECC.
 
... ED#
 
 
In a message dated 6/19/2015 5:27:33 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
d...@msu.edu writes:

Does  anyone have routine maintenance information (e.g. user or service
manuals)  for the Wright Line manual punches?  My newly acquired unit
seems to  need a little lubrication.  I'll guess if I have to, but...

This  is the variety with the large grey wheel on the side to select the
desired  character, and a sort of "wheelhouse" in the middle to hide the
cams,  ribbon mechanism, etc.  There's no model number sticker on  it.

Thanks!

De

OT: learner kits (was: Re: using new technology on old machines)

[Tapley, Mark]

All,
My 14-year-old son has mentioned that he’d like a breadboard and some 
parts to fool with, and the pointer below really helps. I have an old Archerkit 
VOM already, and I’m thinking about turning him loose in August with the 
discrete components part kit, the VOM, a box of logic parts, and a copy of 
Horowitz and Hill. 
Is there a reason to prefer 7400 series over CD4000 series logic? 

http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/catalogs/c151/P30.pdf

makes the CD4000 series look cheaper. 

I also have a pair of old Tek 922 O-scopes, one of which has all of its 
knobs and switches intact and produces a trace. I’ll guess that they both need 
rebuilding; I have the instruction manuals, though, so maybe that is lesson 1? 
Is the TekScopes group the best place to find probes for one or both?

I also have one of the 200-in-1 spring-termial projects; he played with 
that a bit, but there wasn’t enough logic there to do much computing :-) so he 
lost some interest.

He has a Raspberry Pi, which he pretty much contempts in favor of his 
laptop, which will play the modern version of MineCraft :-P, but presumably 
hooking those together might be fun. 

Should I add anything else to his pile? Is there a series of logic 
that’ll make things easier if he does end up hooking in the RPi?

Thanks for any help! My own knowledge is pretty spotty in this field, 
so please feel free to start near ground-zero with helpful advice.

- Mark

On Jun 16, 2015, at 10:50 AM, geneb  wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Jun 2015, Mark J. Blair wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 16, 2015, at 08:19, geneb  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2015, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>>> 
 I wish there was some _easy_ way to lay in a stock of the most common TTL
 IC's - e.g. some kind of kit one could buy - but alas, I don't know of any.
 (Hence my dream of finding and acquiring someone else's collection! :-)
 Suggestions for the source of such a good diversified 'starter kit' 
 welcome...
 
>>> How about this:
>>> http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_84961_-1
>> 
>> Very nice! I might just order one of those.
> 
> They also offer 4000 series, transistor, resistor, and capacitor collections.
> 
> g.
> 
> -- 
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.
> 
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: OT: learner kits

[wulfman]

4000 series are really much more static sensitive than bullet proof ttl
there are pros and cons to everything 4000 series can use a higher VCC
where ttl is 5V
if you plan using 4000 series get him a wrist strap and a bench pad to
attach it to
grounding it all to earth.


On 6/19/2015 7:19 PM, Tapley, Mark wrote:
> All,
>   My 14-year-old son has mentioned that he’d like a breadboard and some 
> parts to fool with, and the pointer below really helps. I have an old 
> Archerkit VOM already, and I’m thinking about turning him loose in August 
> with the discrete components part kit, the VOM, a box of logic parts, and a 
> copy of Horowitz and Hill. 
>   Is there a reason to prefer 7400 series over CD4000 series logic? 
>
> http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/catalogs/c151/P30.pdf
>
>   makes the CD4000 series look cheaper. 
>
>   I also have a pair of old Tek 922 O-scopes, one of which has all of its 
> knobs and switches intact and produces a trace. I’ll guess that they both 
> need rebuilding; I have the instruction manuals, though, so maybe that is 
> lesson 1? Is the TekScopes group the best place to find probes for one or 
> both?
>
>   I also have one of the 200-in-1 spring-termial projects; he played with 
> that a bit, but there wasn’t enough logic there to do much computing :-) so 
> he lost some interest.
>
>   He has a Raspberry Pi, which he pretty much contempts in favor of his 
> laptop, which will play the modern version of MineCraft :-P, but presumably 
> hooking those together might be fun. 
>
>   Should I add anything else to his pile? Is there a series of logic 
> that’ll make things easier if he does end up hooking in the RPi?
>   
>   Thanks for any help! My own knowledge is pretty spotty in this field, 
> so please feel free to start near ground-zero with helpful advice.
>   
> - Mark
>
> On Jun 16, 2015, at 10:50 AM, geneb  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2015, Mark J. Blair wrote:
>>
 On Jun 16, 2015, at 08:19, geneb  wrote:

 On Tue, 16 Jun 2015, Noel Chiappa wrote:

> I wish there was some _easy_ way to lay in a stock of the most common TTL
> IC's - e.g. some kind of kit one could buy - but alas, I don't know of 
> any.
> (Hence my dream of finding and acquiring someone else's collection! :-)
> Suggestions for the source of such a good diversified 'starter kit' 
> welcome...
>
 How about this:
 http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_84961_-1
>>> Very nice! I might just order one of those.
>> They also offer 4000 series, transistor, resistor, and capacitor collections.
>>
>> g.
>>
>> -- 
>> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
>> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
>> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
>> Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.
>>
>> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
>> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
>> http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
>


-- 
The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for the use 
of the named
addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any 
unauthorized use,
copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail is strictly 
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notify the sender
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Re: OT: learner kits (was: Re: using new technology on old machines)

[Brent Hilpert]

An acquaintance just the other day showed me an Arduino experimenters kit that 
came with breadboard, LEDs, jumpers, etc, all in a compartmentalised plastic 
box for 28$CDN. Haven't used it myself, just saw it briefly. Maybe you want to 
start him out at a lower level of logic than that though, or alternatively 
maybe he can move from that to incorporating & interfacing lower levels of 
logic.

Something like this, but this is twice the price:
http://www.adafruit.com/products/170

An annoyance of the Rpi for this stuff is the GPIO pins are 3.3V, they need V 
clamps on input from TTL at least. Not sure where the Arduino fits in that 
regard.


On 2015-Jun-19, at 7:19 PM, Tapley, Mark wrote:
> All,
>   My 14-year-old son has mentioned that he’d like a breadboard and some 
> parts to fool with, and the pointer below really helps. I have an old 
> Archerkit VOM already, and I’m thinking about turning him loose in August 
> with the discrete components part kit, the VOM, a box of logic parts, and a 
> copy of Horowitz and Hill. 
>   Is there a reason to prefer 7400 series over CD4000 series logic? 
> 
> http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/catalogs/c151/P30.pdf
> 
>   makes the CD4000 series look cheaper. 
> 
>   I also have a pair of old Tek 922 O-scopes, one of which has all of its 
> knobs and switches intact and produces a trace. I’ll guess that they both 
> need rebuilding; I have the instruction manuals, though, so maybe that is 
> lesson 1? Is the TekScopes group the best place to find probes for one or 
> both?
> 
>   I also have one of the 200-in-1 spring-termial projects; he played with 
> that a bit, but there wasn’t enough logic there to do much computing :-) so 
> he lost some interest.
> 
>   He has a Raspberry Pi, which he pretty much contempts in favor of his 
> laptop, which will play the modern version of MineCraft :-P, but presumably 
> hooking those together might be fun. 
> 
>   Should I add anything else to his pile? Is there a series of logic 
> that’ll make things easier if he does end up hooking in the RPi?
>   
>   Thanks for any help! My own knowledge is pretty spotty in this field, 
> so please feel free to start near ground-zero with helpful advice.
>   
> - Mark

Re: OT: learner kits (was: Re: using new technology on old machines)

[William Donzelli]

> He has a Raspberry Pi, which he pretty much contempts in favor of his 
> laptop, which will play the modern version of MineCraft :-P, but presumably 
> hooking those together might be fun.

Let him play Minecraft. Start with simple redstone contraptions, then
move to command blocks.

--
Will

Re: OT: learner kits (was: Re: using new technology on old machines)

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove]

On 19 June 2015 at 22:38, William Donzelli  wrote:
> Let him play Minecraft. Start with simple redstone contraptions, then
> move to command blocks.
>
I'm not ashamed to admit I (24 y/o) play Minecraft now and again (with
friends on their own private servers). I'd suggest anyone serious
about trying to get someone "into" logic and programming with
Minecraft use a good tech modpack like the Direwolf20 modpack (part of
the Feed the Beast launcher). It has Immibis' RedLogic, which is
redstone wiring and logic gates; as well as dan200's ComputerCraft
which gives you a Lua programmable computer (and peripherals) that can
do all sorts of neat things.

Eloraam's RedPower 2 had a *very* nice 6502 system (yes, really) that
ran FORTH (though you could have your own asm in game as well, but
you'd need to find a way to import it); it also is the "original"
redstone wires and logic gates mod. But it stopped being worked on
back in 2012. Which is really too bad as the 6502 with Forth was very
neat (it was also graphically styled after a PDP-8/e).


Anyway, sorry for the Minecraft "crap" if anyone here doesn't like it,
just wanted to pitch in my two cents.


Cheers,
Christian
-- 
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.

Re: mobile minis/ Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Sean Caron]

I have a National Geographic somewhere on my shelf that has an article
about remote sensing and I vividly recall at least one interior shot of the
U.S. government aircraft used to gather the imagery for the article; it was
fitted with a bunch of operator workstations for the folks operating the
various sensor platforms and I could swear the stations were built around
something in a BA23 ... probably a VAX given the vintage of the article ...
I'll have to see if I can find the picture real quick & I'll try to scan it
up.

Best,

Sean


On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 6:08 PM, Brent Hilpert  wrote:

> On 2015-Jun-19, at 9:07 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
> >
> > Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
> > (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
> > aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.
>
> Another example of shipboard use:
>
> Quote from  HP Measure Oct 1976:
> One of the first 2116As sold is still being used aboard a research
> vessel operated
> by Woods Hole Institute of Oceanography in Massachusetts, which
> has purchased
> at least a dozen other HP computers since then. The original one
> still works like a
> charm ten years later-even though it's been bounced around, loaded
> and unloaded
> and exposed to the corrosive salt air.
>
> "One of the first 2116As" would place this at 1966-1967.
>
> A pic here shows it being craned onto the ship.
> http://hpmemoryproject.org/news/tenyears_comp/measure_page_00.htm

Re: mobile minis/ Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

[Sean Caron]

Here's the picture if anyone's interested; it turns out that the issue is
from 1993:

http://wildflower.diablonet.net/~scaron/aerialBA23.jpg

This may have actually been a University operated project; I don't believe
it's actually a military aircraft ... but I see at least one BA23 in the
cabin :O I believe the aircraft is a DC-8.

Best,

Sean


On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Sean Caron  wrote:

> I have a National Geographic somewhere on my shelf that has an article
> about remote sensing and I vividly recall at least one interior shot of the
> U.S. government aircraft used to gather the imagery for the article; it was
> fitted with a bunch of operator workstations for the folks operating the
> various sensor platforms and I could swear the stations were built around
> something in a BA23 ... probably a VAX given the vintage of the article ...
> I'll have to see if I can find the picture real quick & I'll try to scan it
> up.
>
> Best,
>
> Sean
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 6:08 PM, Brent Hilpert  wrote:
>
>> On 2015-Jun-19, at 9:07 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
>> >
>> > Bringing this topic full circle, does anyone know if any minicomputers
>> > (DEC PDP-8s or 11s, DG Novæ, HP 21XXs, et cetera) were ever used on
>> > aircraft? Not transported by one, but I mean setup and used on one.
>>
>> Another example of shipboard use:
>>
>> Quote from  HP Measure Oct 1976:
>> One of the first 2116As sold is still being used aboard a
>> research vessel operated
>> by Woods Hole Institute of Oceanography in Massachusetts, which
>> has purchased
>> at least a dozen other HP computers since then. The original one
>> still works like a
>> charm ten years later-even though it's been bounced around,
>> loaded and unloaded
>> and exposed to the corrosive salt air.
>>
>> "One of the first 2116As" would place this at 1966-1967.
>>
>> A pic here shows it being craned onto the ship.
>> http://hpmemoryproject.org/news/tenyears_comp/measure_page_00.htm
>
>
>

Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits

[Toby Thain]

On 2015-06-19 11:21 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:

On 19 June 2015 at 22:38, William Donzelli  wrote:

Let him play Minecraft. Start with simple redstone contraptions, then
move to command blocks.


I'm not ashamed to admit I (24 y/o) play Minecraft now and again (with
friends on their own private servers). I'd suggest anyone serious
about trying to get someone "into" logic and programming with
Minecraft ...


... NOT do that.

Sorry, had to be said.

Minecraft has nothing to do with logic or electronics and would just be 
an unnecessarily obtuse way of approaching it.


For an adult with too much time on their hands? Sure...

--Toby


...


Cheers,
Christian

Re: OT: learner kits

[jwsmobile]

On 6/19/2015 8:21 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:

On 19 June 2015 at 22:38, William Donzelli  wrote:

>Let him play Minecraft. Start with simple redstone contraptions, then
>move to command blocks.
>

I'm not ashamed to admit I (24 y/o) play Minecraft now and again (with
friends on their own private servers).
When I visited ALR, a company in Irvine that evolved into making PC type 
servers and were absorbed into Gateway (name still is used) had a lab 
with a lot of hardware stations, and for the time good networking.  At 
about noon or so one one of my visits for Sun Microsystems, about a 
dozen of the engineers showed up and proceeded to pull out hardware and 
cables, and displays at various stations and hooked them all up pretty 
quickly.  This was in about 92 or 93, I'd guess.


They converted the lab into a big Doom game for about an hour.

I also found out the best time to round up and have casual consultations 
with them about things I wondered about with some systems.


Thanks
jim