Re: ultra sonic washing

[Adrian Stoness]

what about boards with 400 plus pots on it and sliders?

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:56 PM, wulfman  wrote:

> nothing like running them through the dishwasher with hot water and good
> soap.
> I repair old arcade boards and i have found nothing better.
> after they are hot from the wash you blow them off with compressed air
> till try
> and leave them in a rack in case you missed any water.
> as long as they dry fast there will be no chance of damage.
> on the off chance there is a component that must not get wet
> you can remove it and re solder it once clean
> this method removes all manor of issues from tobbaco smoke residue to
> mouse poops and pees.
> once clean if there is any corroded areas they can be repaired.
>
>
>
> On 6/13/2015 8:16 PM, Adrian Stoness wrote:
> > has anyone experimented with this on parts? when dealing with dirty
> > equipment?
> > if so what works best for liquid sulutions?
> >
> > ive got a shelf of 15in bass drivers and some amps thinking of
> building
> > something to clean some audio boards i aquired on the cheap though maybe
> > some folks here would have some ideas?
> >
>
>
> --
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for
> the use of the named
> addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
> Any unauthorized use,
> copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail is
> strictly prohibited by
> the sender and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify the sender
> immediately and delete this e-mail.
>
>

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

I'm still fumbling around with the multi-tape backup of the R80 drive and 
haven't quite gotten it working yet. But I've made some other good progress! 
That RL02 pack labeled "VMS53RL02SYS" does contain a working VMS 5.3 
installation. I backed it up to tape while booted from the R80, then did a 
conversational boot on it to reset the SYSTEM password. Now I boot from that 
pack while trying to get the backup of the R80 drive working, so I can have the 
R80 drive mounted read-only.

I also ran off recursive directory listings of both drives while logging in my 
terminal emulator, so I can go through them later to see if anything 
interesting is in there.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Front Panel Tech Note No3

[Paul Birkel]

IMO the 8/I  (assuming that you're not heading back to the straight-8 :->).

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> PDP-8/e Panel Variants
>
> I now have a list of _possible_ (not actual) variations.
> Its not quite the same as what I had before.
> In addition I have heard there may be colour variations in some cases.
>
> A is the current shipping version
>
>
>A No dividing lines between lamp groups
> Position 1 and 6  on select switch vertical
>
> B  Dividing lines between lamp groups
> Position 1 and 6  on select switch vertical
>
> CNo dividing lines between lamp groups
> Position 1 and 6  on select switch angled
>
> D Dividing lines between lamp groups
> Position 1 and 6  on select switch angled
>
> As these only involve artwork and silk screen frame changes I can use the
> same plexiglas blanks for them
>
> Whats the next most popular PDP-8 after the /e? Any ideas ?
>
> Rod
>
>
>
>

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Peter Coghlan]

>
> Thanks! I'll look up all of those commands to understand them better. 
>
> ^Y looks familiar. I think this is the second time I have learned about it. :)
>
>
> > On Jun 13, 2015, at 18:40, Jerry Weiss  wrote:
> > 
> > If you are running backup and it is asking for additional tapes, then I 
> > believe you can do the following
> > 
> > ^Y
> > $spawn
> > $
> > $reply/enable=all
> >
>

Another way is to log on a second time using a terminal other than the console,
issue reply/enable and then reply to the messages you receive there.

Yet another way is to use BACKUP /NOASSIST - this should avoid issueing
OPCOM messages and prompt the issuer of the BACKUP command directly when tapes
are to be changed and so on.

The standard way of doing backups on VMS is to submit a BACKUP command in a
batch job.  The operator would normally be logged in interactively and would
respond to the OPCOM messages from the batch job and deal with tape mounts.
This requires a suitable batch queue to be set up and started.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

Re: Front Panel Tech Note No3

[Rod Smallwood]

Well wadda you know! Guess what I'm working  on?
For a working 8/i replica kit contact  oscar vermeulen

On 14/06/2015 09:52, Paul Birkel wrote:

IMO the 8/I  (assuming that you're not heading back to the straight-8 :->).

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com> wrote:


PDP-8/e Panel Variants

I now have a list of _possible_ (not actual) variations.
Its not quite the same as what I had before.
In addition I have heard there may be colour variations in some cases.

A is the current shipping version


A No dividing lines between lamp groups
 Position 1 and 6  on select switch vertical

 B  Dividing lines between lamp groups
 Position 1 and 6  on select switch vertical

 CNo dividing lines between lamp groups
 Position 1 and 6  on select switch angled

 D Dividing lines between lamp groups
 Position 1 and 6  on select switch angled

As these only involve artwork and silk screen frame changes I can use the
same plexiglas blanks for them

Whats the next most popular PDP-8 after the /e? Any ideas ?

Rod

Re: ultra sonic washing

[wulfman]

It depends if they are sealed or not.
in manufacturing a lot of boards they are washed off in water
yeah DI water and water soluble flux but still in water.
if your worried test one pot see how well you can dry them
another trick that a antique radio restorer used was to wash them
 and bake in oven at low till dry after the air.

On 6/14/2015 1:12 AM, Adrian Stoness wrote:
> what about boards with 400 plus pots on it and sliders?
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:56 PM, wulfman  wrote:
>
>> nothing like running them through the dishwasher with hot water and good
>> soap.
>> I repair old arcade boards and i have found nothing better.
>> after they are hot from the wash you blow them off with compressed air
>> till try
>> and leave them in a rack in case you missed any water.
>> as long as they dry fast there will be no chance of damage.
>> on the off chance there is a component that must not get wet
>> you can remove it and re solder it once clean
>> this method removes all manor of issues from tobbaco smoke residue to
>> mouse poops and pees.
>> once clean if there is any corroded areas they can be repaired.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/13/2015 8:16 PM, Adrian Stoness wrote:
>>> has anyone experimented with this on parts? when dealing with dirty
>>> equipment?
>>> if so what works best for liquid sulutions?
>>>
>>> ive got a shelf of 15in bass drivers and some amps thinking of
>> building
>>> something to clean some audio boards i aquired on the cheap though maybe
>>> some folks here would have some ideas?
>>>
>>
>> --
>> The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for
>> the use of the named
>> addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
>> Any unauthorized use,
>> copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail is
>> strictly prohibited by
>> the sender and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify the sender
>> immediately and delete this e-mail.
>>
>>


-- 
The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for the use 
of the named
addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any 
unauthorized use,
copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited by
the sender and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
notify the sender
immediately and delete this e-mail.

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 14, 2015, at 02:36, Peter Coghlan  wrote:
> 
> 
> Another way is to log on a second time using a terminal other than the 
> console,
> issue reply/enable and then reply to the messages you receive there.

I'll eventually hook up more serial lines, but at the moment the room is 
cluttered enough that pulling out the rack will be frustrating.

> 
> Yet another way is to use BACKUP /NOASSIST - this should avoid issueing
> OPCOM messages and prompt the issuer of the BACKUP command directly when tapes
> are to be changed and so on.

That sounds like what I want! It's running now.

> The standard way of doing backups on VMS is to submit a BACKUP command in a
> batch job.  The operator would normally be logged in interactively and would
> respond to the OPCOM messages from the batch job and deal with tape mounts.
> This requires a suitable batch queue to be set up and started.

I bet that's how I used to run backups as a student computer operator in the 
late 1980s. But I probably had no understanding of the DCL script I presumably 
ran.


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

BACKUP/NOASSIST did the trick!

Ok, next puzzle is figuring out how to route the cable between the DELUA and 
the bulkhead panel. I removed it because it kept getting tangled when rolling 
the CPU chassis in and out. The cable clamps under the cabinet deal with flat 
cables much better than round ones, so I'll need to improvise.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

RE: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[tony duell]

> 
> Ok, next puzzle is figuring out how to route the cable between the DELUA and 
> the bulkhead panel. I 
> removed it  because it kept getting tangled when rolling the CPU chassis in 
> and out. The cable clamps 
> under the cabinet deal with flat cables much better than round ones, so I'll 
> need to improvise.

If the connector on the DELUA board is a normal Berg-type header (and I think 
it is) then maybe you could
use a piece of (twist-n-flat?) ribbon cable to make an extension that could be 
routed through the cable
pan arrangement and then connected to the original DELUA cable back in the rack 
cabinet.

-tony

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 14, 2015, at 10:01, tony duell  wrote:
> 
> If the connector on the DELUA board is a normal Berg-type header (and I think 
> it is) then maybe you could
> use a piece of (twist-n-flat?) ribbon cable to make an extension that could 
> be routed through the cable
> pan arrangement and then connected to the original DELUA cable back in the 
> rack cabinet.

That might be a good approach. The DELUA end of the cable has a Berg connector, 
and the other end has the typical 15-pin D-sub AUI connector with a slide 
latch. I'll look up the cable wiring to see if signals that would best be 
twisted pairs are conveniently placed on adjacent odd/even pins, such that 
twisted pair ribbon cable would work well electrically.

Or maybe I can use the round cable that I already have, with P-shaped cable 
clamps screwed down using the screws at one end of the flat cable clamps. There 
may not be enough clearance in the tray for that.


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2015-06-14 19:25, Mark J. Blair wrote:



On Jun 14, 2015, at 10:01, tony duell  wrote:

If the connector on the DELUA board is a normal Berg-type header (and I think 
it is) then maybe you could
use a piece of (twist-n-flat?) ribbon cable to make an extension that could be 
routed through the cable
pan arrangement and then connected to the original DELUA cable back in the rack 
cabinet.


That might be a good approach. The DELUA end of the cable has a Berg connector, 
and the other end has the typical 15-pin D-sub AUI connector with a slide 
latch. I'll look up the cable wiring to see if signals that would best be 
twisted pairs are conveniently placed on adjacent odd/even pins, such that 
twisted pair ribbon cable would work well electrically.

Or maybe I can use the round cable that I already have, with P-shaped cable 
clamps screwed down using the screws at one end of the flat cable clamps. There 
may not be enough clearance in the tray for that.


What happened to the original cable and distribution panel?
As a warning - the original distribution panel have a fuse for the 
15-pin Dsub, to avoid excessive power use on the connector. If you go 
directly from the board to a transciever, you might run the risk of 
damaging the DELUA itself if something goes wrong.


Put another way. The design is to have an internal cable from the DELUA 
to a distribution panel at the back of the machine. There you have the 
15 pin AUI connector, which have a fuse. You then had an external AUI 
cable from there to your transciever, which traditionally sat on a thick 
coax. Of course, later on, you started having thin ethernet. Still AUI 
cable and transciever, though. Eventually twisted pair showed up. But 
you had transcievers for that as well. And if you have room behind the 
machine, you could connect the thin ethernet or twisted pair 
transscievers directly to the distribution panel connector, so no actual 
external cable.


Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

I have a DEC distribution panel and internal cable. The panel has a circuit 
breaker, a 15 pin D connector on the outer side for the transceiver, and 
another 15 pin D connector on the inner side for the internal cable between the 
DELUA card and the distribution panel. 

The back of the 730 chassis does not have an open slot for the Ethernet 
transceiver, as all of the other slots are already occupied. A bracket for the 
Ethernet bulkhead panel is screwed to one of the rack's rear panel brackets. 
Whoever routed the internal round cable before I got the machine did a less 
than perfect job, so it kept getting snagged when sliding the 730 chassis in 
and out. The cable jacket has many nicks, but they do not appear to penetrate 
the conductor jackets.

I've just tried reinstalling it, and things aren't moving smoothly yet. I don't 
think that round cable behaves properly in the flat cable flex area, so next I 
will see if I can find a clean path between the card cage and a different area 
of the chassis where I can route it along the gantry that supports the power 
inlet cable. The round cable just doesn't route as cleanly as the original 
bundle of flat cables, so I'll need to fiddle and cuss until I get it working 
well. 

Once I manage to route the internal cable, I'll plug in a DEC AUI cable to the 
bulkhead panel, and a DEC 10baseT transceiver, and see if I can get networking 
up.

The first time I started playing with VAXen as a student, there was generally a 
long AUI cable running to a vampire tap on thick yellow coax. Sometimes the 
coax was routed through the building, and occasionally there would be a vampire 
tap down in the stem tunnels with an AUI cable extending into a subbasement. 
I've never installed a vampire tap myself.

Then a couple years later at a different university, most of the easily 
accessible wiring was thin coax, and 10baseT was still newfangled. 



> On Jun 14, 2015, at 11:27, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-06-14 19:25, Mark J. Blair wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jun 14, 2015, at 10:01, tony duell  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If the connector on the DELUA board is a normal Berg-type header (and I 
>>> think it is) then maybe you could
>>> use a piece of (twist-n-flat?) ribbon cable to make an extension that could 
>>> be routed through the cable
>>> pan arrangement and then connected to the original DELUA cable back in the 
>>> rack cabinet.
>> 
>> That might be a good approach. The DELUA end of the cable has a Berg 
>> connector, and the other end has the typical 15-pin D-sub AUI connector with 
>> a slide latch. I'll look up the cable wiring to see if signals that would 
>> best be twisted pairs are conveniently placed on adjacent odd/even pins, 
>> such that twisted pair ribbon cable would work well electrically.
>> 
>> Or maybe I can use the round cable that I already have, with P-shaped cable 
>> clamps screwed down using the screws at one end of the flat cable clamps. 
>> There may not be enough clearance in the tray for that.
> 
> What happened to the original cable and distribution panel?
> As a warning - the original distribution panel have a fuse for the 15-pin 
> Dsub, to avoid excessive power use on the connector. If you go directly from 
> the board to a transciever, you might run the risk of damaging the DELUA 
> itself if something goes wrong.
> 
> Put another way. The design is to have an internal cable from the DELUA to a 
> distribution panel at the back of the machine. There you have the 15 pin AUI 
> connector, which have a fuse. You then had an external AUI cable from there 
> to your transciever, which traditionally sat on a thick coax. Of course, 
> later on, you started having thin ethernet. Still AUI cable and transciever, 
> though. Eventually twisted pair showed up. But you had transcievers for that 
> as well. And if you have room behind the machine, you could connect the thin 
> ethernet or twisted pair transscievers directly to the distribution panel 
> connector, so no actual external cable.
> 
>Johnny
> 
> -- 
> Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
>  ||  on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 14, 2015, at 11:52, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
> 
> The back of the 730 chassis does not have an open slot for the Ethernet 
> transceiver

I meant to write that it doesn't have an open slot for the Ethernet bulkhead 
panel.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mouse]

> That might be a good approach.  The DELUA end of the cable has a Berg connec$

(Please try to avoid paragraph-length lines.)

I once had a machine in a case it wasn't designed for, leading me to
want to extend a DA-15 AUI connector.  I experimented with plain
untwisted, unshielded, un-ground-planed 15-pin ribbon cable between the
machine and a UTP transceiver.  I found that a foot or two of ribbon
cable made no visible difference.  As an experiment, I then tried about
thirty feet of ribbon cable and got ludicrously high error rates.

On calculating, I find that, at 10Mb, bits are about 65 feet long (at
that sort of frequency, signals in copper travel by skin effect at
roughly 2/3 c), and, since it's Manchester encoded, the underlying data
rate is twice that, meaning a transition potentially every 30ish feet.
A cable two to three feet long is short enough for everything to settle
in plenty of time even if the impedances are mismatched, but one thirty
feet long is about the size of the underlying bits and it's entirely
understandable that it would cause trouble.

So, if you can hang a transceiver off the back of the machine with
little-to-no drop cable length, you can probably get away with a few
feet of pretty much anything, but if you want to run any significant
length of drop cable, you may well need to treat it as a transmission
line and worry about characterstic impedance and shielding and such.
But it's worth experimenting with anyway; it's possible the cable you
have has the right impedance or some such!

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2015-06-14 20:52, Mark J. Blair wrote:

I have a DEC distribution panel and internal cable. The panel has a circuit 
breaker, a 15 pin D connector on the outer side for the transceiver, and 
another 15 pin D connector on the inner side for the internal cable between the 
DELUA card and the distribution panel.


Ok. Good.


The back of the 730 chassis does not have an open slot for the Ethernet 
transceiver, as all of the other slots are already occupied. A bracket for the 
Ethernet bulkhead panel is screwed to one of the rack's rear panel brackets. 
Whoever routed the internal round cable before I got the machine did a less 
than perfect job, so it kept getting snagged when sliding the 730 chassis in 
and out. The cable jacket has many nicks, but they do not appear to penetrate 
the conductor jackets.


Ah. Yes, an extra mounting bracket was not that uncommon. Good if the 
cable seems intact.



I've just tried reinstalling it, and things aren't moving smoothly yet. I don't 
think that round cable behaves properly in the flat cable flex area, so next I 
will see if I can find a clean path between the card cage and a different area 
of the chassis where I can route it along the gantry that supports the power 
inlet cable. The round cable just doesn't route as cleanly as the original 
bundle of flat cables, so I'll need to fiddle and cuss until I get it working 
well.


While the round cable sometimes can cause different problems, I can't 
say I've ever had any actual problems routing it in the end.



Once I manage to route the internal cable, I'll plug in a DEC AUI cable to the 
bulkhead panel, and a DEC 10baseT transceiver, and see if I can get networking 
up.


Sounds good.


The first time I started playing with VAXen as a student, there was generally a 
long AUI cable running to a vampire tap on thick yellow coax. Sometimes the 
coax was routed through the building, and occasionally there would be a vampire 
tap down in the stem tunnels with an AUI cable extending into a subbasement. 
I've never installed a vampire tap myself.


Long time ago... Lots of "fun". The vampire taps could sometimes be 
tricky to get good connections on.



Then a couple years later at a different university, most of the easily 
accessible wiring was thin coax, and 10baseT was still newfangled.


Those were fun times.

Johnny






On Jun 14, 2015, at 11:27, Johnny Billquist  wrote:


On 2015-06-14 19:25, Mark J. Blair wrote:


On Jun 14, 2015, at 10:01, tony duell  wrote:

If the connector on the DELUA board is a normal Berg-type header (and I think 
it is) then maybe you could
use a piece of (twist-n-flat?) ribbon cable to make an extension that could be 
routed through the cable
pan arrangement and then connected to the original DELUA cable back in the rack 
cabinet.


That might be a good approach. The DELUA end of the cable has a Berg connector, 
and the other end has the typical 15-pin D-sub AUI connector with a slide 
latch. I'll look up the cable wiring to see if signals that would best be 
twisted pairs are conveniently placed on adjacent odd/even pins, such that 
twisted pair ribbon cable would work well electrically.

Or maybe I can use the round cable that I already have, with P-shaped cable 
clamps screwed down using the screws at one end of the flat cable clamps. There 
may not be enough clearance in the tray for that.


What happened to the original cable and distribution panel?
As a warning - the original distribution panel have a fuse for the 15-pin Dsub, 
to avoid excessive power use on the connector. If you go directly from the 
board to a transciever, you might run the risk of damaging the DELUA itself if 
something goes wrong.

Put another way. The design is to have an internal cable from the DELUA to a 
distribution panel at the back of the machine. There you have the 15 pin AUI 
connector, which have a fuse. You then had an external AUI cable from there to 
your transciever, which traditionally sat on a thick coax. Of course, later on, 
you started having thin ethernet. Still AUI cable and transciever, though. 
Eventually twisted pair showed up. But you had transcievers for that as well. 
And if you have room behind the machine, you could connect the thin ethernet or 
twisted pair transscievers directly to the distribution panel connector, so no 
actual external cable.

Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol



--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Altos ACS 8000-15A

[Chris Osborn]

Last week while bored and browsing eBay looking at things that are ending soon 
something I had never heard of caught my eye: an Altos ACS 8000-15A. I looked 
at the pictures and googled the brand and model and it didn’t seem to be a very 
common computer and there were no bids on the item so I put in a fairly low 
bid. I ended up winning! :-)

The seller asked if it would be ok to bring the item to me the next time he was 
in my area. I figured that was fine since I was concerned that since it has a 
large 8” hard drive in it that it would be more likely to be damaged in 
shipping. I actually didn’t even need to wait very long! Friday he set out to 
drive across 2 states and dropped off the computer at my front door on Saturday 
morning. Talk about excellent service!

I buy lots of untested items on eBay and usually they work just fine. But luck 
hasn’t held for me this time and so far the Altos doesn’t work. I can hear the 
drives spin up and all the voltages from the DC power supply are perfect. But 
nothing spits out on the Console 1 RS232 port. From what I understand the 
serial ports are wired DTE (which seems odd since you use it with terminals) 
and so I’m using a null modem adapter. Although with the null modem or without 
I get nothing.

Anyways, I posted an album with lots of pictures here:

 http://imgur.com/a/9X8Gh

Yay another project for me to fix! :-)

--
Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx
Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

Cable is routed now. Instead of routing it out the bottom of the cage and 
letting it mingle with the ribbon cables, I routed it over the top, out through 
the power supply area, and then along the folding gantry that the power inlet 
and power control cables are strapped to. Time to see if it'll talk to my 
modern machines now!


On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:38, Mouse  wrote:

> That might be a good approach.  The DELUA end of the cable has a Berg connec$

(Please try to avoid paragraph-length lines.)

Sorry about that. Mail readers these days don't always play nice with 
traditional text-based ones. I use the Mail apps provided with OS X and iOS, 
and they offer limited configurability. I do select plain text mode by default, 
but there's no setting for line length. I believe that readers these days 
assume that other readers will line-wrap.

Very good discussion of cable length vs. bit wavelength!

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Altos ACS 8000-15A

[Ian McLaughlin]

Nice find!  I have a vague recollection of doing repairs on something similar 
that was used as a Unix machine to run cash registers at a pharmacy during the 
late 80s. Sure looks familiar. Any idea what it runs?

Ian
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Chris Osborn  wrote:
> 
> Last week while bored and browsing eBay looking at things that are ending 
> soon something I had never heard of caught my eye: an Altos ACS 8000-15A. I 
> looked at the pictures and googled the brand and model and it didn’t seem to 
> be a very common computer and there were no bids on the item so I put in a 
> fairly low bid. I ended up winning! :-)
> 
> The seller asked if it would be ok to bring the item to me the next time he 
> was in my area. I figured that was fine since I was concerned that since it 
> has a large 8” hard drive in it that it would be more likely to be damaged in 
> shipping. I actually didn’t even need to wait very long! Friday he set out to 
> drive across 2 states and dropped off the computer at my front door on 
> Saturday morning. Talk about excellent service!
> 
> I buy lots of untested items on eBay and usually they work just fine. But 
> luck hasn’t held for me this time and so far the Altos doesn’t work. I can 
> hear the drives spin up and all the voltages from the DC power supply are 
> perfect. But nothing spits out on the Console 1 RS232 port. From what I 
> understand the serial ports are wired DTE (which seems odd since you use it 
> with terminals) and so I’m using a null modem adapter. Although with the null 
> modem or without I get nothing.
> 
> Anyways, I posted an album with lots of pictures here:
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/9X8Gh
> 
> Yay another project for me to fix! :-)
> 
> --
> Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx
> Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Altos ACS 8000-15A

[Chris Osborn]

On Jun 14, 2015, at 1:14 PM, Ian McLaughlin  wrote:

> Nice find!  I have a vague recollection of doing repairs on something similar 
> that was used as a Unix machine to run cash registers at a pharmacy during 
> the late 80s. Sure looks familiar. Any idea what it runs?

Apparently it can run CP/M, MP/M, or something called Oasis. At the moment it 
doesn’t run anything. :-)

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Re: Altos ACS 8000-15A

[Ethan Dicks]

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Chris Osborn  wrote:
> ,,, Altos ACS 8000-15A... nothing spits out on the Console 1 RS232 port. From
> what I understand the serial ports are wired DTE (which seems odd since you
> use it with terminals) and so I’m using a null modem adapter. Although with
> the null modem or without I get nothing.

I wouldn't assume anything with serial ports, especially vintage ones.
Look into getting a "traffic light" that displays state on LEDs either
in red or red/green (depending on how old/expensive the traffic light
- I have both kinds).  The "easy" way to sniff out a connection with
one is to plug the traffic light into only one side of your connection
and see which lines are active, then unplug that and plug it only into
the other side and see which lines are active.  If you have your
null-modem/no-null-modem swaps right, the active lines will be
complementary on each side.  If, say, RxD is active on both, you'll
need a null modem.  When you have it right, you should see lights
blink when one side or the other is trying to talk.  Choosing a baud
rate slower than 9600 bps makes it easier to see.

Also, some hardware needs hardware flow control present and working.
Newer stuff is fast enough that mostly, people just do 3-wire serial
(RxD, TxD, and GND), but stuff from the 1970s is expecting CTS and RTS
and all that to do the proper things.  Sometimes, you can just wire up
the computer side to always have CTS active and things will work fine
since the computer/terminal side can keep up and doesn't have to
throttle one character at a time.  Frequently, this requirement can be
enabled/disabled with jumpers or software settings on the computer
side, but if not, you might need a custom console cable.

This is part of the joy of serial comms.  If you aren't used to
debugging line speeds and parity bits and null-padding chars and
hardware handshake lines, it can get very frustrating when you try to
connect two devices and they won't talk.  By the mid-90s, when most
serial comms were relegated to various types of modems, many of the
earlier limitations were no longer important, but the further back you
go, the more parameters you had to get right before traffic flowed.

-ethan

Re: Altos ACS 8000-15A

[Chris Osborn]

On Jun 14, 2015, at 2:00 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:

> I wouldn't assume anything with serial ports, especially vintage ones.
> Look into getting a "traffic light" that displays state on LEDs

Back in college in the HP lab we had these really nice RS232 breakout boxes 
with jumper pins and LEDs that were in a sort of pink case. While I used them 
all the time I can no longer remember who made them or find anything close.

> Also, some hardware needs hardware flow control present and working.
> Newer stuff is fast enough that mostly, people just do 3-wire serial
> (RxD, TxD, and GND), but stuff from the 1970s is expecting CTS and RTS
> and all that to do the proper things.  

The manual says that it uses DTR for flow control and doesn’t mention DSR, so I 
suspect it’s a one-way thing like the HP terminals and only tells the other end 
to stop and will send whenever it wants without checking if it’s ok.

--
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Re: Altos ACS 8000-15A

[Chuck Guzis]

On 06/14/2015 02:09 PM, Chris Osborn wrote:


Back in college in the HP lab we had these really nice RS232 breakout
boxes with jumper pins and LEDs that were in a sort of pink case.
While I used them all the time I can no longer remember who made them
or find anything close.



They're still very much around.  I recommend those as well as the LED 
monitor gizmos that tells you what the signal lines are doing.  Here's a 
place with a supply of inexpensive stuff:


http://www.cableleader.com/

--Chuck

Re: Kaypro II

[Chris Hafner]

I'd definitely be interested. Where are you located, as I'm sure shipping would 
be brutal on these?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 13, 2015, at 10:22 PM, Benjamin Huntsman 
>  wrote:
> 
> Anyone interested in a Kaypro II in decent shape, complete with a couple of 
> keyboard overlays?
> for trade or for sale...
> 
> thanks!
> 
> -Ben

Re: Altos ACS 8000-15A

[Chris Osborn]

On Jun 14, 2015, at 2:18 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> They're still very much around.  I recommend those as well as the LED monitor 
> gizmos that tells you what the signal lines are doing. 

I know companies still make RS232 breakout boxes, I’ve just never seen any that 
were as nice as the ones I used back in college.

--
Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx
Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com

Re: Altos ACS 8000-15A

[Chuck Guzis]

On 06/14/2015 02:28 PM, Chris Osborn wrote:


On Jun 14, 2015, at 2:18 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:


They're still very much around.  I recommend those as well as the
LED monitor gizmos that tells you what the signal lines are doing.


I know companies still make RS232 breakout boxes, I’ve just never
seen any that were as nice as the ones I used back in college.


How much do you want to spend?  There still are very many breakout boxes 
being made.  For example:


http://www.rs232bob.com/Products/

--Chuck

Re: Altos ACS 8000-15A

[Chris Osborn]

On Jun 14, 2015, at 2:00 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:

> If you have your null-modem/no-null-modem swaps right, the active
> lines will be complementary on each side.

Traced the console port back to the 1488 that it’s connected to, and also 
determined that the Altos *is* wired as DCE which makes more sense to connect 
to terminals. The 1488 is connected to a Z80 DART. Got out the logic probe and 
the input to the 1488 just stays high.

Guess I need to start actually looking at the schematics. :-)

--
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DEC VT180 on Grand Rapids Michigan Craigslist

[Steven Landon]

Just thought id share this with you guys..  I dont know if the price is 
fair or not,  But if someone wants it and needs pick up arranged I can 
do it,  Im about an hour from there.   Just cover my gas.. I can bring 
it out to VCFMW


http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/sys/5074135858.html

Thanks

Steve

Any DOS Gamers out there??

[Steven Landon]

Hey guys?

Is there anyone that uses DOS and early Win9x Machines??   Ive got about 
4 of them that could use a home.. Ive wiped them all and put FreeDOS on 
them.



Ive got a number of early PCI and ISA VGA Cards and network cards as well

Are these worth saving??


Steve

Re: Any DOS Gamers out there??

[wulfman]

I have boxes of cards, if you find a use please let me know.


On 6/14/2015 7:16 PM, Steven Landon wrote:
> Hey guys?
>
> Is there anyone that uses DOS and early Win9x Machines??   Ive got
> about 4 of them that could use a home.. Ive wiped them all and put
> FreeDOS on them.
>
>
> Ive got a number of early PCI and ISA VGA Cards and network cards as well
>
> Are these worth saving??
>
>
> Steve
>


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Opening up a TeleVideo TPC-1

[Ian S. King]

Hi folks,

I was in an antique store today, mostly to humor my wife, and much to her
dismay spotted a fairly early luggable: it said TeleVideo on the face and,
looking closer, it was a TPC-1 with the keyboard, the carrying bag, the
documentation AND a metric butt-ton of floppies.  Once I get everything
sorted I'll let the list know what software I have, so if you need
something maybe I can help

...and maybe you can help me.  I want to open up the TPC and check power
supplies, etc. - OK, I'll come clean.  I plugged it in, watched carefully
for magic smoke and, seeing none, put a 'working disk' in the drive.  I got
an endless string of '.' but no boot.  I tried a couple of other disks
labeled  and, after a couple, I no longer had a display.  So no
surprise, I really need to open it up and probably replace a bunch of PS
capacitors.

I have no idea how to get this box open!  There's nothing in the
documentation, and I found one online reference that suggested TeleVideo
kept this information close to the chest because they didn't want any Tom,
Dick or Ian opening up their machines.  Now if I poke and prod long enough
I'll probably get there, but with the collective knowledge on this list I
figure there has to be SOME one who worked on these back In The Day, who
just knows this off the top of his/her head.

So... anyone?  Thanks -- Ian

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

RE: Opening up a TeleVideo TPC-1

[tony duell]

> I have no idea how to get this box open!  There's nothing in the

No real idea either, but obvious things (to me!) to check are the feet (either 
screwed on through
the case into the internal chassis, or screws under stick-on feet) and the 
handle, which on luggables
is likely to be fixed to the chassis too. 

Are there any visible screws at all? Sometimes you have to take off a thin-ish 
plastic bezel or something
to reveal the real case screws.

-tony

Re: Any DOS Gamers out there??

[Jason Howe]

As with most stuff -- it depends.

A Pentium 200 MMX on an ATX board supporting DIMM modules with more PCI 
slots than ISA slots is less interesting to me that say a Pentium AT 
board that supports SIMMs.


I already have a 286 and a Pentium (on an AT board) setup for DOS games 
for their respective eras, so I don't really have a use myself.


--Jason

On 06/14/2015 07:16 PM, Steven Landon wrote:

Hey guys?

Is there anyone that uses DOS and early Win9x Machines??   Ive got 
about 4 of them that could use a home.. Ive wiped them all and put 
FreeDOS on them.



Ive got a number of early PCI and ISA VGA Cards and network cards as well

Are these worth saving??


Steve