Re: Front Panel Update
On Tue, Jun 09, 2015 at 06:50:25AM +, d...@661.org wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: > > >There are so many versions. The blue and green are my > >favourites. The chocolate 11/70 requires special mention. > > > >Here are some examples I've collected. > > > >http://www.update.uu.se/~pontus/slask/front_paneler/ > > Are these pictures of panels you own? I procured one of those > "chocolate" 11/70 panels a few years ago for another list member. No, sorry if I was missleading. It is the pictures I have collected. The CSI System 11/70 was offered on this list, so it is likely the one you own. /p
Re: Front Panel Update
DEC was very keen on its OEM business and if the order was big enough would allow some variation in colours but would not allow the dec logo to be removed or changed. Whilst not for a pdp 8. I do have a front panel label with both digital and REUTERS on it The 8/f has a white border with logo header and the model number centre right on the panel The lamp area legend lines also differ. Thanks to one or two good inputs I have identified that the 8/e had at least two variants. What I call the B type had different angles on the switch indicator lines and vertical lines dividing up the groups of lamps into threes. If you want a B type let me know Rod On 09/06/2015 05:39, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 04:38:15PM -0700, Vincent Slyngstad wrote: From: Rod Smallwood: Monday, June 08, 2015 11:28 AM Theres an 8/f which replaced the 8/e and has a similar front panel with extra markings I hate to mention it, but I believe that the rotary switch on the 8/E panels was replaced at some point with one that has a different number of degrees per "click". So it would also be necessary to match the artwork to the rotary switch. Correct, there is also some additional differences with the white "frames" arround the rotary switch. Additionally the colour is darker on one of them. I have both, if you want I can make a more detailed comparison. Then there is the production site. Perhaps the you should put your hometown on yours to make them distinct from the originals. /P
MOSTEK FLP-80 Assembler
Does anyone have a copy of Mostek FL-80 Assembler, or know where it can be downloaded? Much thanks. Philip
NY Times Video Feature : The Apple Collector
I thought this was rather nice. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/08/video-feature-the-apple-collector/?_r=1
Re: PDP-8/e front panels.
> From: Rod Smallwood > The switches were made by a company in the US called Stackpole > ... > They are a normal slide type modified with a U bracket to allow the > attachment of a lever arm to operate the switch when toggled up and > down. Ah; the 11/05's (which is what I need switches for) use toggle switches (like I said, pretty much standard micro toggle switches, excepts for the front plate). I'm pretty sure the later 11's with complete front panels (40's, 45's, etc) used the same kind of switch. I was assuming all the PDP-x's of that era used the same front panel switch design, but apparently not. Or perhaps I'm mixing my eras a bit, and the slightly earlier ones all used the slide switch stuff (I just checked my KA-11 panel, and it uses slide switches). I think the 11/20 might have used the slide switches (its switch register looks just like the one on the -8M). Anyway, it seems like we all need both kinds! :-) Noel
PDP 8/e Front panel Shipping Forecast
Hi Guys 1. I have nine 8/e finished panels waiting for me to drill the two round holes Keylock will be drilled 5/8* (May need countersinking from rear) Shaft hole will be drilled 1/4" 2, They are my Type A. (As photo) No vertical octal byte divider lines First and last switch positions vertical. Box around switch area. No diffuser over lamp clear areas (use semi translucent tape on back) 3.The price is $95.00 + $15.00 Shipping (Customs and State Taxes not included tape) 4. One per customer until this batch runs out 5.Next batch (20) due in 5-7 Working days + finished item shipping time to US. 6.Send $110 to my PayPal Account (rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com) and email me your address, 7. One has already gone so seven slots left Regards Rod
Re: PDP 8/e Front panel Shipping Forecast
On Jun 9, 2015, at 6:40 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > 2, They are my Type A. (As photo) There is no photo, the mailing list removes attachments. Could you put the picture on http://imgur.com and send the link? -- Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com
Re: Front Panel Update
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 3:58 AM, Rod Smallwood > wrote: > > > DEC was very keen on its OEM business and if the order was big enough would > allow some variation in colours but would not allow the dec logo to be > removed or changed. I’m not sure if that’s completely true. I remember a PDP11 (11/45 probably) at the University of Illinois, around 1975. It was used as a terminal controller for ARPAnet. The system was called ANTS (not sure what that stands for), and it had a custom logo panel for the top of the H960 racks, in red and yellow, showing large ants crawling all along the cabinets. Not allowing the logo to be changed would make sense, since that is one of the rules of trademarks: you risk losing a trademark if you don’t use it consistently, for example if you create or allow variations of what was registered. paul
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
On 06/07/2015 10:02 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: And... All diagnostics pass! Woohoo! Great to hear, well done Mark! I hope one of these days soon I'll join you - my 730 was able to boot the last time I powered it up in the early 90s, but I have no idea what I'll find when I finally amass the necessary round tuits... --S.
RE: Rescue update: DEC RC-25s + / was Re: DEC cartridge ID
> Ethan Dicks [mailto:ethan.di...@gmail.com] wrote: >I suppose if you found a way to wedge the upper and lower arms of > the removable cartridge so the heads weren't damaged, ... I think it's even harder than that - the firmware in the drive will spin down if it thinks the removable cartridge isn't working. Otherwise you could just put a bad cartridge in there and let it spin up, and empirically that doesn't work. Bob
Re: Rescue update: DEC RC-25s + / was Re: DEC cartridge ID
Bob Take a look at the tu81 manual on bitsavers ek_tu81-tm_002_nov85.pdf The appendix describes the m8739 unibus klesi. It's tmscp but it applies to mscp as well. Joe On Jun 8, 2015, at 9:27 AM, "Robert Armstrong" wrote: >> tony duell [mailto:a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] wrote: >> >> Is the KLESI printset on-line anywhere? > > The schematics are online (sounds like they've been found now), but that > only tells you the electrical interface between the controller and the > drive. That part's pretty simple (which is why it looks attractive to build > a LESI disk emulator gizmo), but it doesn't tell you anything about the > protocol the drive and host use to talk to each other. Another cctalk > reader has suggested privately that the drives actually speak MSCP directly, > and that's the software interface between the two. I guess I'm going to > have to read up on MSCP - I don't know enough about it to know if that's > true or even possible. > > Bob > > >
RE: Rescue update: DEC RC-25s + / was Re: DEC cartridge ID
> tony duell [mailto:a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] wrote: > >Is the KLESI printset on-line anywhere? The schematics are online (sounds like they've been found now), but that only tells you the electrical interface between the controller and the drive. That part's pretty simple (which is why it looks attractive to build a LESI disk emulator gizmo), but it doesn't tell you anything about the protocol the drive and host use to talk to each other. Another cctalk reader has suggested privately that the drives actually speak MSCP directly, and that's the software interface between the two. I guess I'm going to have to read up on MSCP - I don't know enough about it to know if that's true or even possible. Bob
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 7:05 AM, Mark J. Blair wrote: > I finally got the excellent AK6DN tu58em emulator working as my VAX-11/730's > console drive, as discussed on VCF. Could you throw me a link to that please? I have a 730 I'm going to have to have a hack at at some point... Mike http://www.corestore.org 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
> On Jun 8, 2015, at 07:05, Mike Ross wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 7:05 AM, Mark J. Blair wrote: >> I finally got the excellent AK6DN tu58em emulator working as my VAX-11/730's >> console drive, as discussed on VCF. > > Could you throw me a link to that please? I have a 730 I'm going to > have to have a hack at at some point... Sure! I'll take this opportunity to document a lot of the different pieces that I had to dig up to get this all working. First, here is Don AK6DN's TU58 emulator: https://www.ak6dn.dyndns.org/PDP-11/TU58/tu58em/ It's a DEC computer life-saver! I started with v1.4j, and modified it to 1) build on my Mac and 2) remove some delays that caused trouble with the console firmware's very aggressive 20ms IDLE-IDLE to CONTINUE turnaround timeout. Don hasn't had a VAX 725/730/750 to test it against, and it turns out that the 730 didn't like it at first. I've shared my fork here: https://github.com/NF6X/tu58em Note that the master branch, which comes up by default, is Don's original tu58em code. My changes are on the nf6x branch. I believe that Don plans to update his original code based on this experience, but I don't know yet whether he will do it the same way that I did or take a different approach. Both his original code and my fork are likely to change by the time you get back to your 730. :) I got my console tape images here: http://www.heeltoe.com/download/vax/tapes-730/README.html I also put a copy of those images on my GitHub account, along with some other bits such as the extracted files from them: https://github.com/NF6X/VAX-11-730-Console-v57 I have an RL02 pack of the Customer-Runnable Diagnostics that came with my system, and appears to be compatible with the CRD tape in that set of console tape images. I don't have a way to image it yet, but when I do I will add the image to that repository along with the console tape images. In working with the images, I learned that the console boot tapes are in RT11 format, but they don't strictly adhere to the RT11 filesystem documentation. They have, variously, spaces or NULs in place of some key fields such as the first directory segment entry of the header block. That was causing my RT11 filesystem utility to blow chunks on them, so I added a hack to it so it can read them now: https://github.com/NF6X/pyRT11 I have not yet tried to boot my VAX with a console tape image that has been generated with my pyRT11 code, so I don't know yet whether they will like each other. I figure I may need to experiment with that at some point, for example to change the DEFBOO.CMD as appropriate for my system. I found some VAX-11/750 console tape images plus a bunch of other TU58 images here: http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html Since I can't seem to boot up my R80 or my other RL02 pack (labeled "VMS53RL02SYS" on top) yet, I've been trying to bring up the VMS 5.3 Standalone Backup tape images I found there. No luck so far. I have never run a VMS Standalone Backup environment before, but I am blindly hoping that it will be a small VMS environment that will let me try to mount filesystems from my hard drives and see what, if anything, is on them. I would greatly appreciate any clues here, because I'm in unknown waters. If anybody has relevant TU58 images that aren't already archived at one of the sites above, PLEASE share them and/or point me to where they are! And please make sure they get archived! -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
Mark J. Blair wrote: > > Since I can't seem to boot up my R80 or my other RL02 pack (labeled > "VMS53RL02SYS" on top) yet, I've been trying to bring up the VMS 5.3 > Standalone Backup tape images I found there. No luck so far. I have > never run a VMS Standalone Backup environment before, but I am blindly > hoping that it will be a small VMS environment that will let me try to > mount filesystems from my hard drives and see what, if anything, is on > them. I would greatly appreciate any clues here, because I'm in unknown > waters. > Standalone backup is a very small VMS environment. You get a "$" prompt and the only command which it accepts is "BACKUP". You don't get to mount anything as BACKUP will perform any mounting needed itself. I'm not sure but it is also possible that only BACKUP /IMAGE works. The typical way to do a fresh VMS install onto a new disk is to boot standalone backup (from a tape or another disk) and then use it to restore the "B" saveset of the VMS distribution onto the target disk. Then boot the target disk and answer the questions. If you manage to get standalone backup running and want to try reading existing filesystems or distribution media without risking overwriting data you want to keep, you could try something like: $ BACKUP /IMAGE /LOG device: NLA0: With any luck, this should back up the files on "device" to the null device and list the filenames as it does it. If it complains, try this: $ BACKUP /IMAGE /LOG device: NLA0:SAVESET.BCK /SAVE_SET but that variation probably won't work for distribution media as that will be provied in saveset form and you can't have a saveset as both input and output. Regards, Peter Coghlan.
Re: Rescue update: DEC RC-25s + / was Re: DEC cartridge ID
Yeah, there were a few CDC drives like that ... I encountered a few "Hawk" drives once on an old Alpha Micro S-100 machine long ago; I believe it was, five megs fixed, five megs removable? The pack was about the size of a garbage can lid and I believe the unit spun them up to around 2400 RPM or so ... Those are the oldest, largest magnetic disk drives I have ever seen in operation and it was very impressive to me at the time! So loud just running and a very definitive "clunk" from the head assembly when it started moving! Best, Sean On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 11:31 AM, tony duell wrote: > > > The RC25 was one of the last cartridge drives (before fixed drives came > back in small sizes and exploding > > capacity), somewhat interesting because of its compact size, and very > odd and hard to use because the > > designers threw in a fixed platter. Perhaps they thought that it was a > good idea because it gave you double the > > capacity at modest extra cost, but in practice it made for a major pain > in the software and operationally. > > Many other compainess pulled a similar trick... > > The CDC 'Phoenix' (is that a 9648 or something) had a removeable pack > containing one platter and > 3 fixed platters. Capacity was 16MBytes per surface (or so), so the > removeable pack stored 16Mbytes) > (one data surface, one servo surface), the fixed part was 80 MBytes (5 > data, 1 servo surface). > > Plessey made an RK05-a-like (same interface, linked to their version of > the RK11-D, took same > cartridges, same format, etc) with a fixed platter as well as the > cartridge. Of course the HP7900 was > like that too. > > I never really liked the idea. The main problem was you lost access to the > fixed disk(s) while changing the > removeable one. > > -tony >
Re: PDP-8/e front panels.
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 9:27 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > >> From: Rod Smallwood > >> The switches were made by a company in the US called Stackpole >> ... >> They are a normal slide type modified with a U bracket to allow the >> attachment of a lever arm to operate the switch when toggled up and >> down. > > Ah; the 11/05's (which is what I need switches for) use toggle switches (like > I said, pretty much standard micro toggle switches, excepts for the front > plate). I'm pretty sure the later 11's with complete front panels (40's, > 45's, etc) used the same kind of switch. > > I was assuming all the PDP-x's of that era used the same front panel switch > design, but apparently not. Or perhaps I'm mixing my eras a bit, and the > slightly earlier ones all used the slide switch stuff (I just checked my KA-11 > panel, and it uses slide switches). I think the 11/20 might have used the > slide switches (its switch register looks just like the one on the -8M). I think the rocker switches as seen on the KA10 and PDP-12 are slide switches with a rocker mechanism mounted on top. But the PDP11 switches are mini toggle switches as far as I remember; the only change is what sort of handle was slipped over the toggle. Yes, the 11/40 and 11/45, for one; the 11/20 also. paul
Re: Front Panel Update
> From: Paul Koning > I remember a PDP11 (11/45 probably) at the University of Illinois, > ... The system was called ANTS (not sure what that stands for) "ARPA Network Terminal System". According to RFC-597, Illinois had both an 11/20 and an 11/50 (11/45 variant) running ANTS; other sites also ran it on an 11/40. > it had a custom logo panel for the top of the H960 racks, in red and > yellow, showing large ants crawling all along the cabinets. That could have been a local thing. At MIT, the first MIT-built LISP Machines, also housed in H960 racks, had custom logo panels reading "LISP Machine", with an illustration of a LISP two-part cell, with pointers (to other, un-shown, cells). I still have one... (the panel, not the CADR). Noel PS: In a previous message, I wrote "KA-11"; I meant, of course, 'KA-10'. Got -11's on the brain.. ;-)
Re: PDP-8/e front panels.
> From: Paul Koning >> I think the 11/20 might have used the slide switches (its switch >> register looks just like the one on the -8M). > .. PDP11 switches are mini toggle switches as far as I remember .. > Yes, the 11/40 and 11/45, for one; the 11/20 also. I don't have an 11/20 (yet!), but I had a look at the KY11-A manual (no print set online, alas), and it does seem to show (pg. 19) a slide switch. Like I said, the 11/20 switch array looks exactly the the 8/E and 8/M ones (except for colour, of course), which seems to support that the actual switch is a slide. Anyone out there have an 11/20, and can give us definitive info? Noel
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
> On Jun 8, 2015, at 08:58, Peter Coghlan wrote: > > Standalone backup is a very small VMS environment. You get a "$" prompt and > the only command which it accepts is "BACKUP". You don't get to mount > anything > as BACKUP will perform any mounting needed itself. I'm not sure but it is > also possible that only BACKUP /IMAGE works. Thanks! My goal here is to figure out what's on the R80 and that RL02 pack, boot them if possible, and extract all of the delicious bytes for archival and examination on my modern machine(s) (primarily Mac). I'm trying to boot the standalone backup tape images because those are what I found that have the same version number as the label on top of the RL02 pack, and are in a format that I can do something with at the moment. Now, the seller of the system stated that he last run OpenVMS 7.3 (if I recall correctly) on it, so it's possible that's what is on the R80. The issue that I'm having at the moment is that when I try to boot from either that RL02 pack or the R80, VMB.EXE reports "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT file". I don't know yet whether there's something not-right about the contents of the hard drives, or I need to configure something (?) so VMB.EXE knows what to look for. The boot scripts on the console boot tape appear to set up VMB.EXE by shoving numbers into some registers prior to loading it, and I have not yet located any documentation about what the numbers mean. I can just see that they're different in each of the scripts. I've only tried the non-conversational boot scripts so far, since I learned about what the xxnGEN scripts were for after my last experimentation session. I wonder if I might be able to back up the hard drives to an absurd number of emulated TU58 images, so that I could then examine those on my modern machine? I could probably back up onto magtape, but I don't have another means to read the tapes yet. I have another tape drive (which needs repair) that I'll eventually include in my PDP-11/44 restoration, but that's a big project, far in the future. I wonder if the VMS5.3 standalone backup might know how to back up to some network device? I have an ethernet card in the VAX, so that might be a way to get data off the machine for examination. Any suggestions or clues would be greatly appreciated! I'm still learning how to tell the chickens from the eggs. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
Self-replying for another possibly-dumb question. Would any of the TU58 images below likely be full VMS installation images, as opposed to just updates and patches? http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html If so, another option might be to make a fresh installation onto a blank RL02 (I think I have one), so I could then boot from that and try to examine what's on the R80. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
On 2015-06-09 17:45, Mark J. Blair wrote: Self-replying for another possibly-dumb question. Would any of the TU58 images below likely be full VMS installation images, as opposed to just updates and patches? http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html If you by "full VMS installation" means the whole VMS distribution, as just opposed to the installation tools, then I don't think that was made available on TU58 since V4 or so. It would just be too many tapes... The standalone BACKUP system, however, should be available on TU58. And I can see V5.3 standalone BACKUP tapes in there at least. If so, another option might be to make a fresh installation onto a blank RL02 (I think I have one), so I could then boot from that and try to examine what's on the R80. I do not think you can install VMS on an RL02. It's too small. Johnny
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 09:04, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > On 2015-06-09 17:45, Mark J. Blair wrote: >> Self-replying for another possibly-dumb question. Would any of the TU58 >> images below likely be full VMS installation images, as opposed to just >> updates and patches? >> >> http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html > > If you by "full VMS installation" means the whole VMS distribution, as just > opposed to the installation tools, then I don't think that was made available > on TU58 since V4 or so. > It would just be too many tapes... Got it. Thanks! > The standalone BACKUP system, however, should be available on TU58. And I can > see V5.3 standalone BACKUP tapes in there at least. Yes, I'm trying to boot those images in particular. No luck so far, but that may still be a tu58em compatibility issue, since I think I'm pushing it into untested areas. Doing a backup of the R80 onto emulated TU58 images seems like it would be pretty painful (if it's even supported by the standalone backup), but it's the only potential path to extracting the data that I've come up with so far, using things I have on hand. > >> If so, another option might be to make a fresh installation onto a blank >> RL02 (I think I have one), so I could then boot from that and try to examine >> what's on the R80. > > I do not think you can install VMS on an RL02. It's too small. I think I saw reference of doing a "tailored install" onto RL02 media in a software installation manual (presumably cutting out lots of stuff to make it fit), but it's a moot point without having suitable installation media on hand. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
HP 700/92 terminal for sale
Perfect working condition, both monitor and keyboard. This is not the actual unit but it is the same model http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/hp/HP70092/P0007274.jpg $80 obo plus shipping.
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
> > The issue that I'm having at the moment is that when I try to boot from either > that RL02 pack or the R80, VMB.EXE reports "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT > file". I don't know yet whether there's something not-right about the > contents of the hard drives, or I need to configure something (?) so VMB.EXE > knows what to look for. There can be more than one system root on a VMS system disk, typically one each for different nodes in a cluster, maybe under [SYS0], [SYS10], [SYS11] etc and standalone backup can sometimes be found under [SYSE], if installed. "Unable to locate BOOT file" may indicate that you are not reading the correct system root or it may indicate that the disk is not bootable or maybe something entirely different. I am not well up on the 11/730 and I hope someone more familiar with their system specific details will chime in. On some other VAX machines but probably not an 11/730, the [SYSE] root would be booted by entering something like: boot /R5:E000 or maybe: boot /R5:E00 or maybe even: boot /E000 or boot /E00 > The boot scripts on the console boot tape appear to set up VMB.EXE by shoving > numbers into some registers prior to loading it, and I have not yet located > any documentation about what the numbers mean. If it is like other VAX variants that I am familar with, the top eight bits (or maybe four bits - I forget which?) of the 32 bit number that ends up in register R5 is what selects the system root you end up attempting to boot. > > I wonder if I might be able to back up the hard drives to an absurd number > of emulated TU58 images, so that I could then examine those on my modern > machine? > That sounds plausable. If you backup to a saveset on the emulated TU58, BACKUP should prompt you to change emulated tapes each time they fill up. > > I could probably back up onto magtape, but I don't have another means to > read the tapes yet. I have another tape drive (which needs repair) that > I'll eventually include in my PDP-11/44 restoration, but that's a big > project, far in the future. > Good luck with that one! > > I wonder if the VMS5.3 standalone backup might know how to back up to some > network device? I have an ethernet card in the VAX, so that might be a way > to get data off the machine for examination. > Standalone backup is not network aware. You need to get VMS booted before you get to use the network. > > Any suggestions or clues would be greatly appreciated! I'm still learning how > to tell the chickens from the eggs. > Looks like you're doing well so far! Regards, Peter Coghlan.
Re: Front Panel Update
There was a letter that went to a large terminals digital oem in about 1975 stating as below as being the position. Guess who signed the letter? I''ll give you a hint. It wasn't Ken Olsen! On 09/06/2015 15:30, Paul Koning wrote: On Jun 9, 2015, at 3:58 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: DEC was very keen on its OEM business and if the order was big enough would allow some variation in colours but would not allow the dec logo to be removed or changed. I’m not sure if that’s completely true. I remember a PDP11 (11/45 probably) at the University of Illinois, around 1975. It was used as a terminal controller for ARPAnet. The system was called ANTS (not sure what that stands for), and it had a custom logo panel for the top of the H960 racks, in red and yellow, showing large ants crawling all along the cabinets. Not allowing the logo to be changed would make sense, since that is one of the rules of trademarks: you risk losing a trademark if you don’t use it consistently, for example if you create or allow variations of what was registered. paul
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 09:57 , Peter Coghlan wrote: > [Lots of great stuff] Thank you very much! The clue about R5 on other VAXen may prove to be critically helpful. I can study the various boot scripts for clues to see if the register use looks consistent. I did see one hint that sticking 1 instead of 0 into one particular register (I don't recall which one of the top of my head) seemed to indicate a conversational boot instead of turnkey one. Is there VMB.EXE documentation out there that I don't know how to find yet? Even if it's for VMB.EXE for a different VAX-11 machine, the one for my 730 might follow the same register conventions. Another approach came to mind that might be a lot easier than swapping a humorously large number of virtual TU58 cassettes, or might be yet another goose chase. One of my last recent eBay purchases before I quit both eBay and PayPal in a huff over terms of service changes was a TK50 drive and both UNIBUS and QBUS interface cards for it. All of the pieces are unknown quantities, and I'll need to kludge a power supply and fabricate an interface cable, but the drive can theoretically be plugged into my 730. If the 5.3 standalone backup knows about TK50 drives, then I may be able to try backing up whatever is on the hard drives to TK50 cartridges. Next, if I get a TZ30 drive, I wonder if I might be able to plug it into my Sun Ultra 60 running Solaris 8 (since that's my workingest computer with both a SCSI interface and a familiar UNIXy operating system), and then use that to slurp data off the backup cartridge(s) for further analysis. Does this approach sound plausible? Unless somebody happens to know that the TZ30 is incompatible with generic SCSI tape support on UNIX boxen, I think I'll contact the same seller I bought the TK50 from and see if they have a TZ30 sitting around. Yet another approach might be doing the same scheme with my system's existing magtape drive, and then trying to get my hands on a SCSI magtape drive to plug into my Sun. But that would involve shipping a much larger and heavier piece of equipment. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
PDP8
With all the traffic on 8 front panels, which sounds great, I was asked about letting a few of mine go a while ago. The plan was to test and configure to order. A few list members inquired about selling a few as is making it cheaper for them, and more educational. I thought about it, looked at some of my projects, my piles of junk, thought about it some more and said yes. I"m not sure who dropped the ball. Contact me off list if you are interested. I'll think about overseas. Thanks, Paul
Re: Front Panel Update
They can't have enforced it all that hard. I've seen a few like these: http://www.update.uu.se/~pontus/slask/front_paneler/pdp-8m-cc-computer-control.JPG http://www.update.uu.se/~pontus/slask/front_paneler/pdp-8e-cddp.jpg http://www.update.uu.se/~pontus/slask/front_paneler/pdp-8l-UCC.jpg /P On Tue, Jun 09, 2015 at 06:50:52PM +0100, Rod Smallwood wrote: > There was a letter that went to a large terminals digital oem in > about 1975 stating as below as being the position. > Guess who signed the letter? I''ll give you a hint. It wasn't Ken Olsen! > > On 09/06/2015 15:30, Paul Koning wrote: > >>On Jun 9, 2015, at 3:58 AM, Rod Smallwood > >>wrote: > >> > >> > >>DEC was very keen on its OEM business and if the order was big enough would > >>allow some variation in colours but would not allow the dec logo to be > >>removed or changed. > >I’m not sure if that’s completely true. I remember a PDP11 (11/45 probably) > >at the University of Illinois, around 1975. It was used as a terminal > >controller for ARPAnet. The system was called ANTS (not sure what that > >stands for), and it had a custom logo panel for the top of the H960 racks, > >in red and yellow, showing large ants crawling all along the cabinets. > > > >Not allowing the logo to be changed would make sense, since that is one of > >the rules of trademarks: you risk losing a trademark if you don’t use it > >consistently, for example if you create or allow variations of what was > >registered. > > > > paul > > > > >
Re: NY Times Video Feature : The Apple Collector
On Tue, Jun 09, 2015 at 12:47:26PM +, Christian Liendo wrote: > I thought this was rather nice. > > http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/08/video-feature-the-apple-collector/?_r=1 Impressive! Nicely presented too. He has lots of non-apple hardware in his collection which made it even more worthwhile. Regards, Pontus.
ANTS (Was Re: Front Panel Update)
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Paul Koning wrote: > I’m not sure if that’s completely true. I remember a PDP11 (11/45 probably) > at the University of Illinois, around 1975. It was used as a terminal > controller for ARPAnet. The system was called ANTS (not sure what that > stands for), and it had a custom logo panel for the top of the H960 racks, in > red and yellow, showing large ants crawling all along the cabinets. ARPA Network Terminal System. I've got an ANTS logo panel on the wall at home. I know I have some photos of it online but I'm not finding them in the destruction wrought by Google on their old Picasa site. I remember the orange/red color combo made it really hard to photograph. I'll dig them up later and post a follow-up. There is some info on that system, as well as a lot of other PDP and minicomputing goodness, here: https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/bitstream/handle/2142/32601/semiannualtechni93slot.pdf?sequence=2 j
RE: Front Panel Update
> > DEC was very keen on its OEM business and if the order was big enough would > > allow some variation in > > colours but would not allow the dec logo to be removed or changed. > I’m not sure if that’s completely true. I remember a PDP11 (11/45 probably) > at the University of Illinois, around I am pretty sure I once saw a PDP8/e which was absolutely normal internally, but where the front panel was green (as were the switch handles) and it was badged 'Varian'. I don't remember a Digital logo on the front anywhere. > Not allowing the logo to be changed would make sense, since that is one of > the rules of trademarks: you risk > losing a trademark if you don’t use it consistently, for example if you > create or allow variations of what was > registered. IANAL (and it may well be country-dependant) but wouldn't this imply that badge-engineered devices coudl result in loss of trademarks. -tony
Blue tape retainers
I'm getting a little tired of replacing old dried-out foam blocks to hold down the ends of 1/2" tapes. Worse, some of the ones I've fished out have utterly crumbled over the years, leaving bits of themselves inside the reel. One thing that I recall is that many tape manufacturers used a blue, sort of "sticky silicon" tape to hold ends in place. This stuff never seems to degrade. Does anyone know what the stuff is and where one might get a roll of it? --Chuck
Re: Blue tape retainers
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 14:32 , Chuck Guzis wrote: > > I'm getting a little tired of replacing old dried-out foam blocks to hold > down the ends of 1/2" tapes. Worse, some of the ones I've fished out have > utterly crumbled over the years, leaving bits of themselves inside the reel. I am curious: NOS tapes that I bought in the last year or so came with the foam blocks, but I don't recall ever encountering either a foam block or the magic plastic tape "back in the day" on tapes from the rack that I handled as a backup operator. I presume that if they came with blocks, they were discarded when the tapes were unpacked. Is it really necessary to secure the tape end in normal use, or is it just needed during shipping to keep the tape from getting loose on the reel during transport? -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: Blue tape retainers
foam blocks ... hated the things we just tucked one end of the tape under the tape ring and snapped it shut seems things stayed in place nicely and no foam outgassing under the seal of the tape ring. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 6/9/2015 2:38:08 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, n...@nf6x.net writes: > On Jun 9, 2015, at 14:32 , Chuck Guzis wrote: > > I'm getting a little tired of replacing old dried-out foam blocks to hold down the ends of 1/2" tapes. Worse, some of the ones I've fished out have utterly crumbled over the years, leaving bits of themselves inside the reel. I am curious: NOS tapes that I bought in the last year or so came with the foam blocks, but I don't recall ever encountering either a foam block or the magic plastic tape "back in the day" on tapes from the rack that I handled as a backup operator. I presume that if they came with blocks, they were discarded when the tapes were unpacked. Is it really necessary to secure the tape end in normal use, or is it just needed during shipping to keep the tape from getting loose on the reel during transport? -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: Front Panel Update
On 2015-06-09 23:15, tony duell wrote: DEC was very keen on its OEM business and if the order was big enough would allow some variation in colours but would not allow the dec logo to be removed or changed. I’m not sure if that’s completely true. I remember a PDP11 (11/45 probably) at the University of Illinois, around I am pretty sure I once saw a PDP8/e which was absolutely normal internally, but where the front panel was green (as were the switch handles) and it was badged 'Varian'. I don't remember a Digital logo on the front anywhere. WTF? Varian was a competitor of DEC. They made minis themselves. Sounds extremely strange that one would take a DEC mini, and put a Varian badge on it. Did someone try to make a joke? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
On 2015-06-09 20:01, Mark J. Blair wrote: On Jun 9, 2015, at 09:57 , Peter Coghlan wrote: [Lots of great stuff] Thank you very much! The clue about R5 on other VAXen may prove to be critically helpful. I can study the various boot scripts for clues to see if the register use looks consistent. I did see one hint that sticking 1 instead of 0 into one particular register (I don't recall which one of the top of my head) seemed to indicate a conversational boot instead of turnkey one. > > Is there VMB.EXE documentation out there that I don't know how to find yet? Even if it's for VMB.EXE for a different VAX-11 machine, the one for my 730 might follow the same register conventions. Yes, R5 is more or less used the same on all VAXen, since this is used by VMB, which almost all VAXen use in one form or another. The documentation exists in various places. Here is from the VAX86x0 help: ! R5: - software boot control flags. The value -1 is reserved. ! ! Bit Meaning ! --- --- ! !0 RPB$V_CONV. ! Conversational boot. At various points in the ! system boot procedure, the bootstrap code ! solicits parameters and other input from the ! console terminal. If the DIAG is also on, then ! the diagnostic supervisor should enter "MENU" ! mode and prompt user for devices to test. ! !1 RPB$V_DEBUG. ! Debug. If this flag is set, VMS maps the code ! for the XDELTA debugger into the system page ! tables of the running system. ! !2 RPB$V_INIBPT. ! Initial breakpoint. If RPB$V_DEBUG is set, VMS ! executes a BPT instruction immediately after ! enabling mapping. ! !3 RPB$V_BBLOCK. ! Secondary boot from boot block. Secondary ! bootstrap is a single 512-byte block, whose ! LBN is specified in R4. ! !4 RPB$V_DIAG. ! Diagnostic boot. Secondary bootstrap is image ! called [SYSMAINT]DIAGBOOT.EXE. ! !5 RPB$V_BOOBPT. ! Bootstrap breakpoint. Stops the primary ! and secondary bootstraps with a breakpoint ! instruction before testing memory. ! !6 RPB$V_HEADER. ! Image header. Takes the transfer address of the ! secondary bootstrap image from that file's ! image header. If RPB$V_HEADER is not set, ! transfers control to the first byte of the ! secondary boot file. ! !7 RPB$V_NOTEST. ! Memory test inhibit. Sets a bit in the PFN bit ! map for each page of memory present. Does not ! test the memory. ! !8 RPB$V_SOLICT. ! File name. VM@prompts for the name of a ! secondary bootstrap file. ! !9 RPB$V_HALT. ! Halt before transfer. Executes a HALT ! instruction before transferring control to the ! secondary bootstrap. ! ! 10 RPB$V_NOPFND. ! No PFN deletion (not implemented; intended to ! tell VM@not to read a file from the boot device ! that identifies bad or reserved memory pages, ! so that VM@does not mark these pages as valid ! in the PFN bitmap). ! ! 11 RPB$V_MPM. ! Specifies that multi-port memory is to be used ! for the total exec memory requirement. No local ! memory is to be used. This is for tightly-coupled ! multi-processing. ! ! 12 RPB$V_USEMPM. ! Specifies that multi-port memory should be used in ! addition to local memory, as though both were one ! single pool of pages. ! ! 13 RPB$V_MEMTEST ! Specifies that a more extensive algorithm be used ! when testing main memory for hardware uncorrectable ! (RDS) errors. ! ! 14 RPB$V_FINDMEM ! Requests use of MA780 memory if MS780 is insufficient ! for booting. Used for 11/782 installations. ! ! 15 RPB$V_AUTOTEST ! Used by Diagnostic Supervisor. ! ! 16 RPB$V_CRDTEST ! Speci
Re: Front Panel Update
ONLY SOMETIMES... remember Varian also made scientific instruments that had computers lasted to them and probably used dec when they were not making their own mini Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 6/9/2015 2:46:50 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, b...@update.uu.se writes: On 2015-06-09 23:15, tony duell wrote: >>> DEC was very keen on its OEM business and if the order was big enough would allow some variation in >>> colours but would not allow the dec logo to be removed or changed. > >> I’m not sure if that’s completely true. I remember a PDP11 (11/45 probably) at the University of Illinois, around > > I am pretty sure I once saw a PDP8/e which was absolutely normal internally, but where the front panel was > green (as were the switch handles) and it was badged 'Varian'. I don't remember a Digital logo on the > front anywhere. WTF? Varian was a competitor of DEC. They made minis themselves. Sounds extremely strange that one would take a DEC mini, and put a Varian badge on it. Did someone try to make a joke? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 06/09/2015 02:38 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: I am curious: NOS tapes that I bought in the last year or so came with the foam blocks, but I don't recall ever encountering either a foam block or the magic plastic tape "back in the day" on tapes from the rack that I handled as a backup operator. I presume that if they came with blocks, they were discarded when the tapes were unpacked. Is it really necessary to secure the tape end in normal use, or is it just needed during shipping to keep the tape from getting loose on the reel during transport? Obviously for the auto-loading drives, either would be bad news. But it's for the last reason that I'm interested in the blue (well, sometimes white) tape. --Chuck
Re: Blue tape retainers
> I am curious: NOS tapes that I bought in the last year or so came > with the foam blocks, but I don't recall ever encountering either a > foam block or the magic plastic tape "back in the day" on tapes from > the rack that I handled as a backup operator. I presume that if they > came with blocks, they were discarded when the tapes were > unpacked. Is it really necessary to secure the tape end in normal > use, or is it just needed during shipping to keep the tape from > getting loose on the reel during transport? For my money, there ought to be one always, though careful handling in a controlled environment can probably get away with skipping them. Shipping is where the worst stresses occur, of course, so is the most important. I've received a number of tapes for imaging over the last few years, and I don't think a single one had anything to keep it packed. One such tape had slipped an outer chunk of the pack around the inner rest, producing a hard crease. Needless to say, there was a read error there. De
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 14:43 , Johnny Billquist wrote: > Yes, R5 is more or less used the same on all VAXen, since this is used by > VMB, which almost all VAXen use in one form or another. Thank you very much for the R5 details! I presume that the other registers and the VMB.EXE that reads them are probably machine-specific, as I see all sorts of arbitrary-looking numbers stuffed into them depending on which device the ddnBOO.CMD file corresponds to. > Yes, you should be able to plug a TZ30 in to pretty much any Unix box, and > read TK50 tapes off that. Cool. I'm looking for one now. The seller who sold me the TK50 doesn't have any, and I've tried contacting another seller I found online. eBay and I are seeing other people now, but the TZ30 listings I found there look overpriced to me, anyway. I'll start new threads here and on VCF to see what I can scare out of the woodwork. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: Blue tape retainers
> foam blocks ... hated the things we just tucked one end of the tape > under the tape ring and snapped it shut seems things stayed in place > nicely and no foam outgassing under the seal of the tape ring. Those of us with autoload drives despised you. :) Well, ok, the 3420 drives probably did ok regardless; you do get something for the money (and mass) of a blue drive. The Cipher streamers often choked on these, though. De
Re: Blue tape retainers
> Obviously for the auto-loading drives, either would be bad news. But > it's for the last reason that I'm interested in the blue (well, > sometimes white) tape. Or yellow. I'd like a source of these too. Foam blocks were ok back then, but it seems like it's hard to guess which type will not go to crumbs or goo. I would also like to find a few of the rings that prevented insertion of a write-enable ring. These seem to have been uncommon. We were a CDC site at the time, dunno if that's a selector. De
Re: Blue tape retainers
never owned an auto load drive nor do I want to! always afraid of anything autoloadthings getting eaten! Ed# In a message dated 6/9/2015 2:54:36 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, d...@msu.edu writes: > foam blocks ... hated the things we just tucked one end of the tape > under the tape ring and snapped it shut seems things stayed in place > nicely and no foam outgassing under the seal of the tape ring. Those of us with autoload drives despised you. :) Well, ok, the 3420 drives probably did ok regardless; you do get something for the money (and mass) of a blue drive. The Cipher streamers often choked on these, though. De
Re: Blue tape retainers
Was the magic tape silicone, or was it maybe something like vinyl, like the clear vinyl (?) film used for no-adhesive window decals? -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
RE: Front Panel Update
> WTF? Varian was a competitor of DEC. They made minis themselves. Sounds > extremely strange that one would take a DEC mini, and put a Varian badge > on it. Did someone try to make a joke? I will always think of Varian as a maker of (very high quality) vacuum equipment. I am sure this was not a joke. It wasn't just the name, the switch handles were all green, the silkscreening was different, etc. It was a normal PDP8/e inside, though. It was part of a piece of lab equipment (I forget what) and I had to do a minor repair on the PDP8/e side (this was over 20 years ago...). I was pleased to see that apart from a custom interface board, the rest of it was standard DEC boards, so the printsets I had applied. Incidentally, for those who like HP handhelds, the original HP41C manual has a photo on the title page of each chapter. One of them clearly shows _Tektronix_ instruments (!) -tony
Re: Blue tape retainers
On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, Mark J. Blair wrote: Was the magic tape silicone, or was it maybe something like vinyl, like the clear vinyl (?) film used for no-adhesive window decals? I have a couple of those strips on some tapes - feels like vinyl. Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 6/9/2015 2:54 PM, Dennis Boone wrote: > foam blocks ... hated the things we just tucked one end of the tape > under the tape ring and snapped it shut seems things stayed in place > nicely and no foam outgassing under the seal of the tape ring. Those of us with autoload drives despised you. :) Well, ok, the 3420 drives probably did ok regardless; you do get something for the money (and mass) of a blue drive. The Cipher streamers often choked on these, though. De The blue, white, or yellow material felt like and worked like latex. It may have had some treatment to make it have the tactile adhesion you felt, but it left zero residue on the tape despite the adhesion to the mylar backing on the tape. When you stretched it it lost the property to stick to the tape, by the way, so shrinkage may be the culprit if they quit working. I find that the Writghtline seals work the best if the tapes were not and are not hung with them. Eventually the white material will fail, or the black lock will break, but they are by far the longest lasting other than just a clear box container. thanks Jim
Re: Blue tape retainers
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: > Was the magic tape silicone, or was it maybe something like vinyl, like the > clear vinyl (?) film used for no-adhesive window decals? I think the ones I used were vinyl. A little thicker than the parking permits I had a few years ago, but about the same feel.
RE: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
> > I do not think you can install VMS on an RL02. It's too small. Probably not with modern-ish VMS, but at one time I think you could. I read somewhere that a supported configuration of the 11/730 was the processor and 2 RL02 drives, one for the system, the other for user files I must get my 11/730 running again... -tony
Re: NY Times Video Feature : The Apple Collector
Here is another interview with Lonnie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu5wcgWdJQI On 6/9/15, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: > On Tue, Jun 09, 2015 at 12:47:26PM +, Christian Liendo wrote: >> I thought this was rather nice. >> >> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/08/video-feature-the-apple-collector/?_r=1 > > Impressive! Nicely presented too. He has lots of non-apple hardware in > his collection which made it even more worthwhile. > > Regards, > Pontus. > -- Chris Halarewich
WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
In order to be able to move data between my vintage and modern computers more effectively, I am looking for one or both of these items: 1) DEC TZ30 tape drive. This is a TK50-compatible drive in a 1/2 height form factor with a SCSI interface. 2) 1/2" open reel magtape drive with SCSI interface. Preferably with 6250 BPI capability. Doesn't need to be fast or fancy; just needs to be working-ish. I'm located in Riverside, California, USA. For an open reel magtape drive, a local source would be preferable to avoid the need to ship the beast. Or possibly in Las Vegas, where my folks might sneak it into the moving van later this month... :) eBay and I are now seeing other people, so I'm cut off from that source. Ditto for PayPal, so I'd pay by some other means (or maybe even trade). -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 06/09/2015 03:01 PM, jwsmobile wrote: The blue, white, or yellow material felt like and worked like latex. It may have had some treatment to make it have the tactile adhesion you felt, but it left zero residue on the tape despite the adhesion to the mylar backing on the tape. I think the guess of being vinyl is probably bang on. Latex would have long since degraded. When you stretched it it lost the property to stick to the tape, by the way, so shrinkage may be the culprit if they quit working. I find that the Writghtline seals work the best if the tapes were not and are not hung with them. Eventually the white material will fail, or the black lock will break, but they are by far the longest lasting other than just a clear box container. There were several competing systems for hanging tapes. There was one that used hard plastic "bands" that were pretty wide (perhaps 1.25") that would crack if you dropped them on the floor. I've run into tapes with 5 leaders spliced on, one right after the other. And you'd be sure to get grief from your operator if you took one of those stiff leaders with a notched end and bent it double. I remember when the self-threading vacuum column drives were introduced. The usual procedure was the clip off the last inch or two of the leader before using them. Of course, if you carried the same tape between auto- and manual-threading drives a lot, that leader could shrink pretty quickly. --Chuck
Re: Blue tape retainers
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 15:20 , Chuck Guzis wrote: > I remember when the self-threading vacuum column drives were introduced. The > usual procedure was the clip off the last inch or two of the leader before > using them. Of course, if you carried the same tape between auto- and > manual-threading drives a lot, that leader could shrink pretty quickly. Speaking of which, I would love to add one of those little tape end trim-and-crimp tools to my collection. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
On 2015-06-09 23:54, Mark J. Blair wrote: On Jun 9, 2015, at 14:43 , Johnny Billquist wrote: Yes, R5 is more or less used the same on all VAXen, since this is used by VMB, which almost all VAXen use in one form or another. Thank you very much for the R5 details! I presume that the other registers and the VMB.EXE that reads them are probably machine-specific, as I see all sorts of arbitrary-looking numbers stuffed into them depending on which device the ddnBOO.CMD file corresponds to. It is very bus and controller specific, so it varies extremely much, yes. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Re: Blue tape retainers
Could this be the right stuff? http://www.amazon.com/Grafix-9-Inch-12-Inch-9-Pack-Assorted/dp/B00114OVFE/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt It seems to me that I've seen it in the form of letters to be stuck to windows. --Chuck
Re: Blue tape retainers
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 15:33 , Chuck Guzis wrote: > > Could this be the right stuff? > > http://www.amazon.com/Grafix-9-Inch-12-Inch-9-Pack-Assorted/dp/B00114OVFE/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt > > It seems to me that I've seen it in the form of letters to be stuck to > windows. That looks really promising. It would probably be easy to slice into neat strips with one of those circular-blad paper cutters from the local office supply store. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: > In order to be able to move data between my vintage and modern computers more > effectively, I am looking for one or both of these items: > > 2) 1/2" open reel magtape drive with SCSI interface. Preferably with 6250 BPI > capability. Doesn't need to be fast or fancy; just needs to be working-ish. An alternative would be to look for a cheap Fujitsu M2444AC tape drive (often seen with Sun badges). They have Pertec interfaces, but it is probably easier and cheaper most of the time to find a Pertec tape drive interface for a DEC system than a SCSI interface, and they can be interfaced to ISA bus PCs. They are built like tanks and weigh around 200 pounds, which is why they can sometimes be had for cheap if you find one within driving distance because no one would want to pay to ship one. You don't do eBay any more, and asking over $300 is way to much, but here is what the look like for reference: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191583247197 I have picked up a couple in the $50-$100 range. Maybe you can find one on a somewhat local Craigslist page for cheap.
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 6/9/2015 3:20 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: I think the guess of being vinyl is probably bang on. Latex would have long since degraded. I asked a group who collect Political Memorabilia and make temporary signs, and they suggested the term that I think hits the material. The temporary signs are called "clingy decals" and that hits a number of promising materials. This site is a bit annoying but also discusses two types of cling. http://www.signazon.com/vinyl-decal-vs-static-cling.aspx I agree with you Chuck and Eric. If I'd read his post about vinyl, I'd have agreed with him and not mentioned latex. The surface property is like latex, but you are probably right, the material would have degraded in ozone or other gasses. thanks Jim
Re: Front Panel Update
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 5:58 PM, tony duell wrote: > > >> WTF? Varian was a competitor of DEC. They made minis themselves. Sounds >> extremely strange that one would take a DEC mini, and put a Varian badge >> on it. Did someone try to make a joke? > > I will always think of Varian as a maker of (very high quality) vacuum > equipment. > > I am sure this was not a joke. It wasn't just the name, the switch handles > were all green, the silkscreening > was different, etc. It was a normal PDP8/e inside, though. It was part of a > piece of lab equipment (I forget > what) and I had to do a minor repair on the PDP8/e side (this was over 20 > years ago...). I was pleased to > see that apart from a custom interface board, the rest of it was standard DEC > boards, so the printsets I > had applied. Interesting. Varian is a microwave equipment company; I have one of their TWTs sitting on my H960 at home. Vacuum equipment, I could believe that. But yes, Varian made a 16 bit minicomputer; I had a handbook for it at one time (now lost, I suspect). And if memory serves, the reason is that there was one in the Computer Science department at the University of Illinois where I studied. I remember nothing about the architecture, other than the fact it supported user microprogramming. Possibly the OEM PDP8 predates that device. Or possibly it wasn’t enough of a competitor for DEC to stop doing OEM business with Varian. paul
Re: Blue tape retainers
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 6:01 PM, Mike Loewen wrote: > > On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, Mark J. Blair wrote: > >> Was the magic tape silicone, or was it maybe something like vinyl, like the >> clear vinyl (?) film used for no-adhesive window decals? > > I have a couple of those strips on some tapes - feels like vinyl. That sounds right. It’s the same stuff used for DECtape; we called those LBTs (“little blue things”). They work for 1/2 inch magtape provided the backing is glossy, not the matte stuff that some manufacturers used. I believe it’s the same stuff that you can find in window decals, like the ones of animals I had as a 4 year old. paul
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
On 6/9/2015 3:44 PM, Glen Slick wrote: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191583247197 I have picked up a couple in the $50-$100 range. I had two of those which came with Sun 4-280 systems. Hamilton used them for doing custom Pal and prom stuff in their offices and I got the systems there. I suspect that some such systems were broken up if these guys have the drives. They also had the oddball SMD drives I asked about 2 or 3 weeks ago. thanks jim
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 15:44 , Glen Slick wrote: > > An alternative would be to look for a cheap Fujitsu M2444AC tape drive > (often seen with Sun badges). They have Pertec interfaces, but it is > probably easier and cheaper most of the time to find a Pertec tape > drive interface for a DEC system than a SCSI interface, and they can > be interfaced to ISA bus PCs. They are built like tanks and weigh > around 200 pounds, which is why they can sometimes be had for cheap if > you find one within driving distance because no one would want to pay > to ship one. I'm looking for a SCSI interfaced drive so I can hook it up to my Sun Ultra 60, running Solaris 8. I don't run any ISA bus machines other than a 5155 Portable PC and a very crappy old 386 box dedicated to running ImageDisk, and my Sun would be much easier to use for this purpose, I think. It's also just new enough that it's not hard to get it talking to my current machines over the network, so it makes a nice bridge machine. I already have a magtape drive on my VAX, and was pleased to see it pass the diagnostic tests this weekend. It's a TU80. It hooks up to my VAX with a couple of 50-pin connectors... Hmm, maybe it has a Pertec interface, so another option might be to find a Pertec to SCSI adapter and use the same drive on multiple systems? I also already have a front-loading Kennedy drive with a Pertec interface which is earmarked for use on my future PDP-11/44 project. It needs some work, as it lost hub drive in one direction shortly after I got it. Once I repair it, using it with a SCSI to Pertec adapter would also eliminate the need to shipping yet another magtape drive around. So based on your comments, let me amend my request to say that I would also consider some sort of SCSI to Pertec interface. Thanks! P.S.: For those of you who don't mind clicking on a Twitter link, here's a picture of my VAX system as I was working on it this weekend, shortly before I took a break to let the room cool back down: https://twitter.com/nf6x/status/607650728459407360 The MacBook on top of the VAX is running tu58em. The Ultra 60 is sitting on the floor in front of the TU80 after a previous dead-end attempt to get tu58em running on it, before I figured out how to fix the issue I was having running it on my Mac. The two VAX cabinets are bracketed by my PDP-11/03 on the left, and my Nova 3 on the right. The DECwriter III is working nicely as the VAX console terminal. Oh, and my PDP-8M is sitting on top of the PDP-11/03 rack waiting for its next turn on the workbench. Photobombing the picture from the right is my IBM Mag Card II typewriter, also waiting for restoration. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: Front Panel Update
Varian bought the design of the 620. I forget the name of the original firm, but I have a brochure on it. Weird things happen. CDC rebadged small VAX machines and Nova 3s, for example, even with their minicomputer line intact. -- Will On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 6:45 PM, Paul Koning wrote: > >> On Jun 9, 2015, at 5:58 PM, tony duell wrote: >> >> >>> WTF? Varian was a competitor of DEC. They made minis themselves. Sounds >>> extremely strange that one would take a DEC mini, and put a Varian badge >>> on it. Did someone try to make a joke? >> >> I will always think of Varian as a maker of (very high quality) vacuum >> equipment. >> >> I am sure this was not a joke. It wasn't just the name, the switch handles >> were all green, the silkscreening >> was different, etc. It was a normal PDP8/e inside, though. It was part of a >> piece of lab equipment (I forget >> what) and I had to do a minor repair on the PDP8/e side (this was over 20 >> years ago...). I was pleased to >> see that apart from a custom interface board, the rest of it was standard >> DEC boards, so the printsets I >> had applied. > > Interesting. Varian is a microwave equipment company; I have one of their > TWTs sitting on my H960 at home. Vacuum equipment, I could believe that. > But yes, Varian made a 16 bit minicomputer; I had a handbook for it at one > time (now lost, I suspect). And if memory serves, the reason is that there > was one in the Computer Science department at the University of Illinois > where I studied. I remember nothing about the architecture, other than the > fact it supported user microprogramming. > > Possibly the OEM PDP8 predates that device. Or possibly it wasn’t enough of > a competitor for DEC to stop doing OEM business with Varian. > > paul > >
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 15:44 , Glen Slick wrote: > You don't do eBay any more, and asking over $300 is way to much, but > here is what the look like for reference: > http://www.ebay.com/itm/191583247197 > I have picked up a couple in the $50-$100 range. If their prices weren't so high, I have a friend in Santa Paula who might be able to help picking up something from them in Ventura and stashing it until next time we find ourselves in the same place. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Front Panel Tech Note No1
To act as a diffuser we use two strips of semi translucent tape across the clear areas where the lamps/LED's shine through. However DEC lamps / LEDs are not noted for their brilliance. So unless requested we will leave them off. Rod Smallwood
Re: Front Panel Update
Was that in the "Astromony building" on Goodwin located next to CSL? It was not on contract with us, at least not very often. I worked on it several times. It had 2 DB11- unibus repeaters on it, and was supposedly the longest bus ever. Paul On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Paul Koning wrote: > > > On Jun 9, 2015, at 3:58 AM, Rod Smallwood > wrote: > > > > > > DEC was very keen on its OEM business and if the order was big enough > would allow some variation in colours but would not allow the dec logo to > be removed or changed. > > I’m not sure if that’s completely true. I remember a PDP11 (11/45 > probably) at the University of Illinois, around 1975. It was used as a > terminal controller for ARPAnet. The system was called ANTS (not sure what > that stands for), and it had a custom logo panel for the top of the H960 > racks, in red and yellow, showing large ants crawling all along the > cabinets. > > Not allowing the logo to be changed would make sense, since that is one of > the rules of trademarks: you risk losing a trademark if you don’t use it > consistently, for example if you create or allow variations of what was > registered. > > paul > > >
Re: Front Panel Update
The ANTS system I saw was in CAC, the building originally built to house Illiac IV. It sat next to an IMP (a 6 foot high battleship gray box with a large hoisting eye on top). paul > On Jun 9, 2015, at 7:21 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: > > Was that in the "Astromony building" on Goodwin located next to CSL? > > It was not on contract with us, at least not very often. I worked on it > several times. It had 2 DB11- unibus repeaters on it, and was supposedly > the longest bus ever. > > Paul
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 09/06/2015 22:32, Chuck Guzis wrote: One thing that I recall is that many tape manufacturers used a blue, sort of "sticky silicon" tape to hold ends in place. This stuff never seems to degrade. Since I used to buy them, I can say with some authority that (1) they're vinyl tape, as others have surmised, and yes it's the same stuff that adhesive-free window "stickers" are made from, and (2) they came in lots of colours - I have almost every one except purple, and, oddly enough, blue. So the item on Amazon might be a very good option. -- Pete Pete Turnbull
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 6/9/2015 5:38 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: On 09/06/2015 22:32, Chuck Guzis wrote: One thing that I recall is that many tape manufacturers used a blue, sort of "sticky silicon" tape to hold ends in place. This stuff never seems to degrade. Since I used to buy them, I can say with some authority that (1) they're vinyl tape, as others have surmised, and yes it's the same stuff that adhesive-free window "stickers" are made from, and (2) they came in lots of colours - I have almost every one except purple, and, oddly enough, blue. So the item on Amazon might be a very good option. Have you checked the places that sell professional audio reel 2 reel tape?
Re: Blue tape retainers
I have had them come inthem for video tape too and they were seem to be white vinyl in this case Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 6/9/2015 5:04:47 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, bfranc...@jetnet.ab.ca writes: On 6/9/2015 5:38 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On 09/06/2015 22:32, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> One thing that I recall is that many tape manufacturers used a blue, >> sort of "sticky silicon" tape to hold ends in place. This stuff never >> seems to degrade. > > Since I used to buy them, I can say with some authority that (1) they're > vinyl tape, as others have surmised, and yes it's the same stuff that > adhesive-free window "stickers" are made from, and (2) they came in lots > of colours - I have almost every one except purple, and, oddly enough, > blue. So the item on Amazon might be a very good option. > Have you checked the places that sell professional audio reel 2 reel tape?
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
On 2015-06-10 00:59, Mark J. Blair wrote: On Jun 9, 2015, at 15:44 , Glen Slick wrote: An alternative would be to look for a cheap Fujitsu M2444AC tape drive (often seen with Sun badges). They have Pertec interfaces, but it is probably easier and cheaper most of the time to find a Pertec tape drive interface for a DEC system than a SCSI interface, and they can be interfaced to ISA bus PCs. They are built like tanks and weigh around 200 pounds, which is why they can sometimes be had for cheap if you find one within driving distance because no one would want to pay to ship one. I'm looking for a SCSI interfaced drive so I can hook it up to my Sun Ultra 60, running Solaris 8. I don't run any ISA bus machines other than a 5155 Portable PC and a very crappy old 386 box dedicated to running ImageDisk, and my Sun would be much easier to use for this purpose, I think. It's also just new enough that it's not hard to get it talking to my current machines over the network, so it makes a nice bridge machine. I already have a magtape drive on my VAX, and was pleased to see it pass the diagnostic tests this weekend. It's a TU80. It hooks up to my VAX with a couple of 50-pin connectors... Hmm, maybe it has a Pertec interface, so another option might be to find a Pertec to SCSI adapter and use the same drive on multiple systems? Just fyi: the TU80 is 1600 bpi only. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Re: Front Panel Update
I think that was on Springfield, down a few blocks. On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 6:32 PM, Paul Koning wrote: > The ANTS system I saw was in CAC, the building originally built to house > Illiac IV. It sat next to an IMP (a 6 foot high battleship gray box with a > large hoisting eye on top). > > paul > > > On Jun 9, 2015, at 7:21 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: > > > > Was that in the "Astromony building" on Goodwin located next to CSL? > > > > It was not on contract with us, at least not very often. I worked on it > > several times. It had 2 DB11- unibus repeaters on it, and was supposedly > > the longest bus ever. > > > > Paul > >
Re: Front Panel Update
Unisys absorbed Varian mini computers ie the V 77 nice chart in this pdf of the family tree http://rmarsh.cs.und.edu/CLASS/CS451/HANDOUTS/os-unisys.pdf by the way the purchase agreement was dated 1977 between Uni and Var we have lots of manuals in the catacombs unisys/varian/burroughs Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 6/9/2015 3:45:11 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, paulkon...@comcast.net writes: > On Jun 9, 2015, at 5:58 PM, tony duell wrote: > > >> WTF? Varian was a competitor of DEC. They made minis themselves. Sounds >> extremely strange that one would take a DEC mini, and put a Varian badge >> on it. Did someone try to make a joke? > > I will always think of Varian as a maker of (very high quality) vacuum equipment. > > I am sure this was not a joke. It wasn't just the name, the switch handles were all green, the silkscreening > was different, etc. It was a normal PDP8/e inside, though. It was part of a piece of lab equipment (I forget > what) and I had to do a minor repair on the PDP8/e side (this was over 20 years ago...). I was pleased to > see that apart from a custom interface board, the rest of it was standard DEC boards, so the printsets I > had applied. Interesting. Varian is a microwave equipment company; I have one of their TWTs sitting on my H960 at home. Vacuum equipment, I could believe that. But yes, Varian made a 16 bit minicomputer; I had a handbook for it at one time (now lost, I suspect). And if memory serves, the reason is that there was one in the Computer Science department at the University of Illinois where I studied. I remember nothing about the architecture, other than the fact it supported user microprogramming. Possibly the OEM PDP8 predates that device. Or possibly it wasn’t enough of a competitor for DEC to stop doing OEM business with Varian. paul
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 2015-Jun-09, at 3:01 PM, jwsmobile wrote: > I find that the Writghtline seals work the best if the tapes were not and > are not hung with them. Eventually the white material will fail, or the > black lock will break, but they are by far the longest lasting other than > just a clear box container. Every couple of years for awhile now I'll be surprised in hearing a snap, clunk and strange scuffling sound in the house. It's one of those tape collar-seals breaking spontaneously, at which point the hung reel falls to the floor and takes off across the room, generally unwinding the tape as it goes.
DEC H7842-A, -D power supplies for PC100, PC278 etc
My crew found some of these today that are extremely clean. Getting closer to the mother lode. If interested, please contact me off list. Paul
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 6/9/2015 8:15 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote: On 2015-Jun-09, at 3:01 PM, jwsmobile wrote: I find that the Writghtline seals work the best if the tapes were not and are not hung with them. Eventually the white material will fail, or the black lock will break, but they are by far the longest lasting other than just a clear box container. Every couple of years for awhile now I'll be surprised in hearing a snap, clunk and strange scuffling sound in the house. It's one of those tape collar-seals breaking spontaneously, at which point the hung reel falls to the floor and takes off across the room, generally unwinding the tape as it goes. After a few years, they start looking for food. :)
Re: Blue tape retainers
It's one of those tape collar-seals breaking spontaneously, at which point the hung reel falls to the floor and takes off across the room, generally unwinding the tape as it goes. If it is generally UNwinding the tape as it goes, the reason is exactly the same as why buttered toast always falls buttered side down: It is NOT due to the aerodynamics during the fall. It is NOT due to the center of gravity. It is because you are winding it the wrong way around - (or buttering the wrong side)
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 6/9/2015 8:55 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: It's one of those tape collar-seals breaking spontaneously, at which point the hung reel falls to the floor and takes off across the room, generally unwinding the tape as it goes. If it is generally UNwinding the tape as it goes, the reason is exactly the same as why buttered toast always falls buttered side down: It is NOT due to the aerodynamics during the fall. It is NOT due to the center of gravity. It is because you are winding it the wrong way around - (or buttering the wrong side) Also would not a fall like that damage the tape reel? Ben.
Re: Blue tape retainers
wonders how long it takes the seal to decay? when in the biz had tapes on the rack for 13 years and no falling . Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 6/9/2015 7:42:06 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, bfranc...@jetnet.ab.ca writes: On 6/9/2015 8:15 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote: > On 2015-Jun-09, at 3:01 PM, jwsmobile wrote: > >> I find that the Writghtline seals work the best if the tapes were >> not and are not hung with them. Eventually the white material will >> fail, or the black lock will break, but they are by far the longest >> lasting other than just a clear box container. > > Every couple of years for awhile now I'll be surprised in hearing a > snap, clunk and strange scuffling sound in the house. > > It's one of those tape collar-seals breaking spontaneously, at which > point the hung reel falls to the floor and takes off across the room, > generally unwinding the tape as it goes. > > After a few years, they start looking for food. :)
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
On 6/9/2015 4:09 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: On Jun 9, 2015, at 15:44 , Glen Slick wrote: You don't do eBay any more, and asking over $300 is way to much, but here is what the look like for reference: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191583247197 I have picked up a couple in the $50-$100 range. If their prices weren't so high, I have a friend in Santa Paula who might be able to help picking up something from them in Ventura and stashing it until next time we find ourselves in the same place. I have a Fujitsu M2444AC sitting in my hangar up here in Santa Cruz. You can have it if you can get someone to pick it up. Photo's here: http://www.dvq.com/Fujitsu/ Bob -- Vintage computers and electronics www.dvq.com www.tekmuseum.com www.decmuseum.org
TRW Cinch connectors-found a few boxes or nos.
please contact me of list if interested.
80 column (un)punched cards
I just got rid of the last of my punched card equipment so I no longer need any blank cards; anybody out there need any? 1 box (2000) normal light buff (off-white) colour, around 500 of same with blue stripe, and several dozen of various colours, all with the normal numbers printed and "all unperforated - ha ha ha!" (obscure and lame reference to a line in Flanders and Swann's 'Have some Madeira, M'dear!' that was apparently too risque for the American sensibility ;-). Flanders and who?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW_zi8n4HDQ http://www.nyanko.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fas/hat_mader.html http://www.amazon.ca/Drop-Of-Hat-Flanders-Swann/dp/B26GPR Back to cards; email off-list if you need any; guaranteed cheaper than eBay. m
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 20:45 , Bob Rosenbloom wrote: > I have a Fujitsu M2444AC sitting in my hangar up here in Santa Cruz. You can > have it if you can get someone to pick it up. > Photo's here: > > http://www.dvq.com/Fujitsu/ You probably guessed already that my friend in Santa Paula is also a pilot! ;) Thank you very much for the offer! If I'm not mistaken, that drive has a Pertec interface, though, like the Kennedy 9610 that I already have, so I think I will let somebody else have a crack at it. That drive model looks familiar; we probably had at least one in the computer room I worked in during college in the late 1980s, and I may have done a tape mount or two on them! Hmm, I guess I have yet another option: Once I fix the hub motor drive in my Kennedy 9610, maybe I could just make my own interface for it. Maybe a small FPGA to handle the interface signals, and an off the shelf microcontroller (like a BeagleBone Black board?) to give it a UI and interface it to the outside world. Much more effort, but also more fun! I may be able to borrow a SCSI-interface magtape drive locally, but I still wouldn't mind having one of my own. And I am still hoping to find a TZ30 drive. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
BTW, there was a SCSI variant of my Kennedy tape drive. I would be very pleasantly surprised if I managed to find the card to convert my drive over to SCSI, though. I think that finding one would be a real long-shot. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 06/09/2015 08:21 PM, ben wrote: Also would not a fall like that damage the tape reel? When baking tapes with the Wright Line seals, I've learned to remove the seals. If you leave them on, the tapes at 58C, will often just fall right out the seal--the coefficient of expansion is much larger for the seals than for the tape reels. After the seal has had a chance to cool off, it fits fine. This is particularly a problem with the smaller size reels. --Chuck
RE: Front Panel Update
> Interesting. Varian is a microwave equipment company; I have one of their > TWTs sitting on my H960 at home. > Vacuum equipment, I could believe that. But yes, Varian made a 16 bit > minicomputer; I had a handbook for it at My father was a physical chemist who did a lot of work with vacuum systems. He would swear by Varian (and swear _at_ Vacuum Generators). I assume it was the same Varian company. A number of scientific instrument companies made computers too, of course. The most obvious being HP. -tony
Re: Blue tape retainers
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 21:46 , Chuck Guzis wrote: > > When baking tapes with the Wright Line seals Please forgive my ignorance, but which variety are the Wright Line seals? I think I've encountered three styles of magtape widgets: The "common" white plastic with a black buckle and squarish hook, which have been on the vast majority of tapes I've ever handled or seen; auto-load rings; fully-enclosed plastic cases with a quarter-turn handle in the middle of one side to latch the halves together. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: 80 column (un)punched cards
On 06/09/2015 08:52 PM, Mike Stein wrote: I just got rid of the last of my punched card equipment so I no longer need any blank cards; anybody out there need any? 1 box (2000) normal light buff (off-white) colour, around 500 of same with blue stripe, and several dozen of various colours, all with the normal numbers printed and "all unperforated - ha ha ha!" (obscure and lame reference to a line in Flanders and Swann's 'Have some Madeira, M'dear!' that was apparently too risque for the American sensibility ;-). I'd rather think that it was risque for British sensibilites. "A smile on her face and an ache in her head..." --Chuck
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
On 06/09/2015 09:13 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: Thank you very much for the offer! If I'm not mistaken, that drive has a Pertec interface, though, like the Kennedy 9610 that I already have, so I think I will let somebody else have a crack at it. That drive model looks familiar; we probably had at least one in the computer room I worked in during college in the late 1980s, and I may have done a tape mount or two on them! Hmm, I guess I have yet another option: Once I fix the hub motor drive in my Kennedy 9610, maybe I could just make my own interface for it. Maybe a small FPGA to handle the interface signals, and an off the shelf microcontroller (like a BeagleBone Black board?) to give it a UI and interface it to the outside world. Much more effort, but also more fun! I may be able to borrow a SCSI-interface magtape drive locally, but I still wouldn't mind having one of my own. And I am still hoping to find a TZ30 drive. Not complete off-topic, but I just received an email from Shaun Halstead that he's looking to get rid of a CDC Keystone drive (vertically mounted) (read: TU80 family, with Pertec interface) that was apparently used on a Xerox system. If you're in the Chicago area and interested, you might want to drop Shaun a line at microf...@microfilm.kscoxmail.com Any particular reason why Pertec IF isn't desirable? I'm coding now for a Pertec-to-USB interface board. How's that for an anachronism? --Chuck
Re: Blue tape retainers
They breathe better if you do not have thenm sealed..ed www.smecc.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Chuck Guzis Date: 06/09/2015 9:46 PM (GMT-07:00) To: gene...@classiccmp.org, "discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: Blue tape retainers On 06/09/2015 08:21 PM, ben wrote: > Also would not a fall like that damage the tape reel? When baking tapes with the Wright Line seals, I've learned to remove the seals. If you leave them on, the tapes at 58C, will often just fall right out the seal--the coefficient of expansion is much larger for the seals than for the tape reels. After the seal has had a chance to cool off, it fits fine. This is particularly a problem with the smaller size reels. --Chuck
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 06/09/2015 09:57 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: Please forgive my ignorance, but which variety are the Wright Line seals? I think I've encountered three styles of magtape widgets: The "common" white plastic with a black buckle and squarish hook, which have been on the vast majority of tapes I've ever handled or seen; That one. 3M also had their own variety of seals. --Chuck
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 22:11 , Chuck Guzis wrote: > Not complete off-topic, but I just received an email from Shaun Halstead that > he's looking to get rid of a CDC Keystone drive (vertically mounted) (read: > TU80 family, with Pertec interface) that was apparently used on a Xerox > system. > > If you're in the Chicago area and interested, you might want to drop Shaun a > line at microf...@microfilm.kscoxmail.com I'm in southern California myself, but hopefully somebody else here will have a good home for it. I did a Craigslist search for tape drives earlier today, and found a Kennedy 9100 with SCSI interface in the Phoenix, AZ area. Probably a bit too far for me. But it looks cool: Seems to be the same mechanism as my TU80, right down to the membrane keypad, but in vertical orientation. > Any particular reason why Pertec IF isn't desirable? I already have 1-2 Pertec IF drives; my Kennedy 9610, and presumably my TU80 based on the two 50-pin cables between it and my VAX. I don't have any Pertec interface controllers on my modernish, up-and-running computers, but I do have a fully-working Sun Ultra 60 with SCSI interface, software support for SCSI tape drives, and capable of talking to my NAS for easy file transfer to my main computer (Mac Pro "trashcan"). I already have two Pertec-capable projects, and I'm looking for something to help me bootstrap those rather than a third similar project. So either getting a SCSI magtape drive or a SCSI to Pertec bridge should get me there more easily. > I'm coding now for a Pertec-to-USB interface board. How's that for an > anachronism? It's delightful for one, that's how! Think you might make more than one of them, or share the plans? It sounds like something I could potentially use! I've considered making something like that myself, but I have so many such ideas that I am happy to let other folks make some of them for me. :) -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
Oh, and furthermore, I'm much more comfortable in a UNIX environment than anything PC/DOS/Windows. Linux is fine, but I would expect pain getting drivers for some random Pertec card. So, PC platforms that might accept a Pertec card aren't my preferred environment. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: Blue tape retainers
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 22:20 , Chuck Guzis wrote: > > On 06/09/2015 09:57 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: > >> Please forgive my ignorance, but which variety are the Wright Line >> seals? I think I've encountered three styles of magtape widgets: The >> "common" white plastic with a black buckle and squarish hook, which >> have been on the vast majority of tapes I've ever handled or seen; > > That one. > > 3M also had their own variety of seals. Hmm, the NOS 3M 777 tapes that I got off eBay have "that one" seals. Did 3M later switch to Wright Line seals? Off to google pictures of random mag taps for edutainment purposes... Boy, do I know how to have fun! -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: WTB /WTT DEC TZ30 and/or 1/2" open reel SCSI magtape drives
On 06/09/2015 10:31 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: Any particular reason why Pertec IF isn't desirable? I already have 1-2 Pertec IF drives; my Kennedy 9610, and presumably my TU80 based on the two 50-pin cables between it and my VAX. I don't have any Pertec interface controllers on my modernish, up-and-running computers, but I do have a fully-working Sun Ultra 60 with SCSI interface, software support for SCSI tape drives, and capable of talking to my NAS for easy file transfer to my main computer (Mac Pro "trashcan"). I already have two Pertec-capable projects, and I'm looking for something to help me bootstrap those rather than a third similar project. So either getting a SCSI magtape drive or a SCSI to Pertec bridge should get me there more easily. Okay, I understand that. I use an old Chi ISA-bus controller for my Pertec IF drives. It works okay, but without detailed internals, it's hard to write a really good driver for it. It's delightful for one, that's how! Think you might make more than one of them, or share the plans? It sounds like something I could potentially use! I've considered making something like that myself, but I have so many such ideas that I am happy to let other folks make some of them for me. :) It's sort of strange design, but what I wanted to do was approach the problem step-wise. So I've got an XC95108 CPLD consolidating the IF to a simple 8-bit wishbone bus affair. I'm currently using a PIC32MX795 to interface with that and provide the USB interface, but too much CPU and too little memory. A small ARM MCU would probably be better suited to the job. Anyway, a work in progress... --Chuck
Re: Blue tape retainers
On 06/09/2015 10:40 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: Hmm, the NOS 3M 777 tapes that I got off eBay have "that one" seals. Did 3M later switch to Wright Line seals? Off to google pictures of random mag taps for edutainment purposes... Boy, do I know how to have fun! The 3M ones that I've seen are hard white plastic (not PVC or whatever Wright Line used) with a keyhole-sort of affair that allows the circle to expand. --Chuck
Re: Blue tape retainers
I finally succeeded in putting a name to where I've seen that clingy vinyl material before--in a children's toy: Google: "Colorforms" --Chuck
Re: Blue tape retainers
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 22:57 , Chuck Guzis wrote: > > The 3M ones that I've seen are hard white plastic (not PVC or whatever Wright > Line used) with a keyhole-sort of affair that allows the circle to expand. Interesting. I don't think I've encountered that style before, or if I did, that memory has snuck away in the night. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: PDP-8/S
On Tue, 9 Jun 2015 14:27:57 -0400 Michael Thompson wrote: > > > > Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2015 12:26:07 -0700 > > From: couryhouse > > Subject: Re: Front Panel Update > > > > 8s is rare?? ? We have one. ?Is there a an registry? ? > > Ed# ?smecc.org > > > > Ben. > > > > > I know of 17 PDP-8/S systems, including four at the RICM. > The RICM has an OMD8S data-break and memory expansion chassis for an > 8/S. Is there a registry somewhere for PDP-8/S systems? Where is the list available and maintained? Cheers, Lyle -- 73 AF6WS Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
