Re: architecture question

[Tony Finch]

Michael McNally  wrote:
> On 5/8/13 9:33 AM, Jeremy P wrote:
> >
> > However, there are times where registering a real domain just isn't
> > practical.  For example, I'm not going to ask all of the students in my
> > courses to go out and register a .com for the semester.
>
> The flip side of this is that whatever you teach them they are going
> to take out into the wider world with them.

Right. Give each student a subdomain of some existing domain, even if the
subdomains aren't publicly delegated.

Tony.
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Re: Stalling slave transfers

[Cathy Almond]

On 08/05/13 19:15, Tom Sommer wrote:
> 
> On 5/8/13 12:25 PM, Cathy Almond wrote:
>> On 08/05/13 08:26, Tom Sommer wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have a problem with one of 3 slave servers, all set up the exact same
>>> way, with the exact same bind version and configuration.
>>>
>>> One slave has a problem transfering zones from the master.
>>>
>>> The logfiles are flooded with "received notify for zone" .. "refresh in
>>> progress, refresh check queued" lines and "rndc status" returns a
>>> constant high number of "soa queries in progress".
>>> After a few hours the zones are transfers, so the connection to the
>>> master is working, but there is a major delay. I tried resetting the
>>> slave and transfering ALL slave zones again, which worked fine
>>> instantly. The problem still appeared again after a few hours though.
>>>
>>> The master has three network-paths, one on external IP, one on internal
>>> IP and one on IPv6. All 3 paths work fine, because the transfers happen
>>> after an hour or so.
>>>
>>> There is no hints in the master's log.
>>> The other two slaves are running perfectly, no errors or delays what so
>>> ever.
>>>
>>> Bind version 9.9.2-P2 (recently upgraded to).
>>>
>>> Any hints would be appreciated, as I feel like I've exhausted most
>>> options.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>> Have a look at this KB article (you'll need to register to view - but
>> registration is open to all):
>>
>> https://kb.isc.org/article/AA-00726/30/Tuning-your-BIND-configuration-effectively-for-zone-transfers-particularly-with-many-frequently-updated-zones.html
>>
>>
>> Also - and this isn't covered in that article (yet) - if you're using
>> views, then use-alt-transfer-source defaults to 'yes'.  You might want
>> to set it explicitly to 'no' or to define alt-transfer-source
>> and/or alt-transfer-source-v6.
>>
> Thank you, great resource. I think I solved it with raising
> serial-query-limit, it's just odd that it's not required on the other
> two servers.
> 
> Another issue has arisen now though, the logfile is filled with lots of
> named[5596]: zone example.com/IN: refresh: failure trying master
> 1.2.3.4#53 (source 0.0.0.0#0): operation canceled
> 
> But if I do a "dig example.com @1.2.3.4" it's working just fine. Same
> server as with the previous issue.
> 
> Any thoughts? Thank you.
> 
> // Tom

I don't think you solved the problem - I think you moved it (or made it
happen faster...)

The refresh errors indicate that the master isn't responding to your
slave for some reason.  That's what you'll need to investigate.  I would
suggest auditing the differences between this slave and the others in
their named configurations as well as their configured IP interfaces and
routing tables.

A pair of network packet traces (slave and the non-responding auth
server) might also point you in the right direction.

Cathy
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Re: Stalling slave transfers

[Tom Sommer]

On 5/9/13 11:36 AM, Cathy Almond wrote:

I don't think you solved the problem - I think you moved it (or made it
happen faster...)

The refresh errors indicate that the master isn't responding to your
slave for some reason.  That's what you'll need to investigate.  I would
suggest auditing the differences between this slave and the others in
their named configurations as well as their configured IP interfaces and
routing tables.

A pair of network packet traces (slave and the non-responding auth
server) might also point you in the right direction.

Right, but when I perform a "dig" from the server OS, the transfer and 
network-communication work fine - so there are no signs as to why named 
can't connect to the master, but the OS can.


I'll do some more digging.

Thanks.
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Re: BIND Configuration

[WBrown]

I don't know how it's done, I'm not a networking guru, but here we have 2 
upstream providers and somehow we route out through both, and both can 
route in to our /16 network.  No messing with DNS changes depending on 
which ISP is having problems, 

As Clarke's third law states, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is 
indistinguishable from magic."

Bill



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RE: Stalling slave transfers

[Luther, Dan]

Tom, 

What happens when you "dig +tcp example.com @1.2.3.4"? Specifically I'm 
wondering here if the slave you're having problems with is blocking TCP port 
53. Such a configuration would allow you to query the master server, but not 
transfer to/from it.

Dan Luther
Operations Engineer
Systems Operation Engineering 
Level 3 Communications
One Technology Center, Tulsa OK 74103
e: dan.lut...@level3.com


-Original Message-
From: bind-users-bounces+dan.luther=level3@lists.isc.org 
[mailto:bind-users-bounces+dan.luther=level3@lists.isc.org] On Behalf Of 
Tom Sommer
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 1:16 PM
To: Cathy Almond
Cc: bind-users@lists.isc.org
Subject: Re: Stalling slave transfers


On 5/8/13 12:25 PM, Cathy Almond wrote:
> On 08/05/13 08:26, Tom Sommer wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a problem with one of 3 slave servers, all set up the exact 
>> same way, with the exact same bind version and configuration.
>>
>> One slave has a problem transfering zones from the master.
>>
>> The logfiles are flooded with "received notify for zone" .. "refresh 
>> in progress, refresh check queued" lines and "rndc status" returns a 
>> constant high number of "soa queries in progress".
>> After a few hours the zones are transfers, so the connection to the 
>> master is working, but there is a major delay. I tried resetting the 
>> slave and transfering ALL slave zones again, which worked fine 
>> instantly. The problem still appeared again after a few hours though.
>>
>> The master has three network-paths, one on external IP, one on 
>> internal IP and one on IPv6. All 3 paths work fine, because the 
>> transfers happen after an hour or so.
>>
>> There is no hints in the master's log.
>> The other two slaves are running perfectly, no errors or delays what 
>> so ever.
>>
>> Bind version 9.9.2-P2 (recently upgraded to).
>>
>> Any hints would be appreciated, as I feel like I've exhausted most options.
>>
>> Thank you.
> Have a look at this KB article (you'll need to register to view - but 
> registration is open to all):
>
> https://kb.isc.org/article/AA-00726/30/Tuning-your-BIND-configuration-
> effectively-for-zone-transfers-particularly-with-many-frequently-updat
> ed-zones.html
>
> Also - and this isn't covered in that article (yet) - if you're using 
> views, then use-alt-transfer-source defaults to 'yes'.  You might want 
> to set it explicitly to 'no' or to define alt-transfer-source and/or 
> alt-transfer-source-v6.
>
Thank you, great resource. I think I solved it with raising serial-query-limit, 
it's just odd that it's not required on the other two servers.

Another issue has arisen now though, the logfile is filled with lots of
named[5596]: zone example.com/IN: refresh: failure trying master
1.2.3.4#53 (source 0.0.0.0#0): operation canceled

But if I do a "dig example.com @1.2.3.4" it's working just fine. Same server as 
with the previous issue.

Any thoughts? Thank you.

// Tom
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Re: architecture question

[Matus UHLAR - fantomas]

On 5/8/13 9:33 AM, Jeremy P wrote:
> However, there are times where registering a real domain just isn't
> practical.  For example, I'm not going to ask all of the students in my
> courses to go out and register a .com for the semester.



Michael McNally  wrote:

The flip side of this is that whatever you teach them they are going
to take out into the wider world with them.


On 09.05.13 10:21, Tony Finch wrote:

Right. Give each student a subdomain of some existing domain, even if the
subdomains aren't publicly delegated.


yes, so they will start using it in their job and home.

...I still think it would be better to have reserved private TLD for
intranets as we have IP's in rfc1918 (plus rfc6598 for ISPs)

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RE: BIND Configuration

[Ward, Mike S]

Sounds like they are using BGP for routing. That's probably the way we are 
going to go. That way we don't have to make any crazy changes in our bind 
configurations. Thanks all for the replies.

-Original Message-
From: bind-users-bounces+mward=ssfcu@lists.isc.org 
[mailto:bind-users-bounces+mward=ssfcu@lists.isc.org] On Behalf Of 
wbr...@e1b.org
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 7:17 AM
To: bind-users@lists.isc.org
Subject: Re: BIND Configuration

I don't know how it's done, I'm not a networking guru, but here we have 2 
upstream providers and somehow we route out through both, and both can route in 
to our /16 network.  No messing with DNS changes depending on which ISP is 
having problems, 

As Clarke's third law states, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is 
indistinguishable from magic."

Bill



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Re: architecture question

[Tony Finch]

Matus UHLAR - fantomas  wrote:
> On 09.05.13 10:21, Tony Finch wrote:
> > Right. Give each student a subdomain of some existing domain, even if the
> > subdomains aren't publicly delegated.
>
> yes, so they will start using it in their job and home.

They shouldn't do that if the teacher has properly explained how domains
are delegated and who the tutorial domain belongs to.

Tony.
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Re: architecture question

[Mike Hoskins (michoski)]

-Original Message-

From: Tony Finch 
Date: Thursday, May 9, 2013 11:01 AM
To: Matus UHLAR - fantomas 
Cc: "bind-users@lists.isc.org" 
Subject: Re: architecture question

>Matus UHLAR - fantomas  wrote:
>> On 09.05.13 10:21, Tony Finch wrote:
>> > Right. Give each student a subdomain of some existing domain, even if
>>the
>> > subdomains aren't publicly delegated.
>>
>> yes, so they will start using it in their job and home.
>
>They shouldn't do that if the teacher has properly explained how domains
>are delegated and who the tutorial domain belongs to.

Based on #students generate N random-string sub-domains assigned in their
course handout.  You can either pre-delegate those or let them delegate
the named domain, based on your requirements.  Start with a fresh config
and newly generated set of sub-domains each quarter.  Just a thought if
you want to go this route and avoid mis-use.

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Re: architecture question

[Matus UHLAR - fantomas]

On 09.05.13 10:21, Tony Finch wrote:
> Right. Give each student a subdomain of some existing domain, even if the
> subdomains aren't publicly delegated.



Matus UHLAR - fantomas  wrote:

yes, so they will start using it in their job and home.


On 09.05.13 16:01, Tony Finch wrote:

They shouldn't do that if the teacher has properly explained how domains
are delegated and who the tutorial domain belongs to.


I was trying to paraphrase Michael McNally's former comment 
https://lists.isc.org/pipermail/bind-users/2013-May/090609.html


I think the situation is just the same
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Re: architecture question

[Tony Finch]

Matus UHLAR - fantomas  wrote:
> > > On 09.05.13 10:21, Tony Finch wrote:

> > > > Right. Give each student a subdomain of some existing domain, even
> > > > if the subdomains aren't publicly delegated.
>
> > Matus UHLAR - fantomas  wrote:
> > > yes, so they will start using it in their job and home.
>
> On 09.05.13 16:01, Tony Finch wrote:
> > They shouldn't do that if the teacher has properly explained how domains
> > are delegated and who the tutorial domain belongs to.
>
> I was trying to paraphrase Michael McNally's former comment
> https://lists.isc.org/pipermail/bind-users/2013-May/090609.html
>
> I think the situation is just the same

No it isn't. If you teach them to use a bogus internal pseudo-RFC1918 TLD
then the students will learn that it is OK to re-use the same
configuration everywhere, like they do for RFC1918 IP address space. If
you teach them how to choose a suitable internal subdomain of a
properly-delegated public domain then they should do that.

You can reinforce the point that different namespaces have different ways
of handling allocations for internal use if you also teach IPv6 and how to
properly allocate addresses in RFC 4193 IPv6 ULA space.

Tony.
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Re: architecture question

[Jeremy P]

I certainly didn't intend to spark off such a firestorm with my original
question.  I have learned a lot from the debate though.

On the question of what to use with students, it is a fine thing to say "we
should only do things the way they are done in real life so students don't
learn bad habits", but I'm guessing that comes from people who have spent
very little time in a classroom that has fiscal and technical limitations.
If I followed that mantra I would never be able to do anything with
students other than read out of a book and lecture.  We strive to get them
as close to real life as financial and technical restraints allow.  Some
have recommended I get a sub domain on the school's domain.  Maybe at your
company/school that's easy to accomplish, but here that would be quite an
amount of effort to earn a rejection letter.  I'll probably just purchase
somedomain.com and handout sub domains, but I won't have resources to setup
a public facing server that can properly do delegation.

In my experience the students who "get it" and comprehend the concepts are
able to heed the warnings of "in real life, we would do this a little
different".  The students who don't "get it" are gonna misconfigure
regardless of what TLD I tell them to use in the lab.  They'll probably
also assign addresses in the 2001:DB8::/32 range because they saw it in
documentation.  My advice: hire the former and pass on the latter and
everything will be ok ;-)


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Tony Finch  wrote:

> Matus UHLAR - fantomas  wrote:
> > > > On 09.05.13 10:21, Tony Finch wrote:
>
> > > > > Right. Give each student a subdomain of some existing domain, even
> > > > > if the subdomains aren't publicly delegated.
> >
> > > Matus UHLAR - fantomas  wrote:
> > > > yes, so they will start using it in their job and home.
> >
> > On 09.05.13 16:01, Tony Finch wrote:
> > > They shouldn't do that if the teacher has properly explained how
> domains
> > > are delegated and who the tutorial domain belongs to.
> >
> > I was trying to paraphrase Michael McNally's former comment
> > https://lists.isc.org/pipermail/bind-users/2013-May/090609.html
> >
> > I think the situation is just the same
>
> No it isn't. If you teach them to use a bogus internal pseudo-RFC1918 TLD
> then the students will learn that it is OK to re-use the same
> configuration everywhere, like they do for RFC1918 IP address space. If
> you teach them how to choose a suitable internal subdomain of a
> properly-delegated public domain then they should do that.
>
> You can reinforce the point that different namespaces have different ways
> of handling allocations for internal use if you also teach IPv6 and how to
> properly allocate addresses in RFC 4193 IPv6 ULA space.
>
> Tony.
> --
> f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/
> Forties, Cromarty: East, veering southeast, 4 or 5, occasionally 6 at
> first.
> Rough, becoming slight or moderate. Showers, rain at first. Moderate or
> good,
> occasionally poor at first.
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Re: architecture question

[WBrown]

> From: Jeremy P 

> In my experience the students who "get it" and comprehend the 
> concepts are able to heed the warnings of "in real life, we would do
> this a little different".  The students who don't "get it" are gonna
> misconfigure regardless of what TLD I tell them to use in the lab.  
> They'll probably also assign addresses in the 2001:DB8::/32 range 
> because they saw it in documentation.  My advice: hire the former 
> and pass on the latter and everything will be ok ;-)
> 

Many students are more clued in than some teachers give them credit for. 
They will understand that what they see in class is not the same as 
they'll see in the real world.  It's that other portion that will go on to 
cause mayhem or get elected to public office.  It's easy to say "pass on 
the later", but they will eventually get hired because they managed to 
squeak through an A+ or Microsoft certification and someone scrapes the 
bottom of the barrel because they're not willing to pay for talent.

Or maybe they'll just be the the offspring of a friend of the person in 
the corner office.  I wish I could say I've never seen that happen!



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Re: architecture question

[Jeremy P]

Too often its the corner office friend!

You are right, those other people may get hired, but not by people who know
how to interview.  I ran an IT department for 10 years prior to teaching
and my goals of hiring were always first, don't hire jerks.  Second, hire
people who know their stuff inside and out, backwards and forwards.  The
second goal got easier over time as we developed better screening questions
and scenarios.  Not hiring jerks is much more difficult and I would
appreciate any silver bullets people may have in this realm.


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 12:52 PM,  wrote:

> > From: Jeremy P 
>
> > In my experience the students who "get it" and comprehend the
> > concepts are able to heed the warnings of "in real life, we would do
> > this a little different".  The students who don't "get it" are gonna
> > misconfigure regardless of what TLD I tell them to use in the lab.
> > They'll probably also assign addresses in the 2001:DB8::/32 range
> > because they saw it in documentation.  My advice: hire the former
> > and pass on the latter and everything will be ok ;-)
> >
>
> Many students are more clued in than some teachers give them credit for.
> They will understand that what they see in class is not the same as
> they'll see in the real world.  It's that other portion that will go on to
> cause mayhem or get elected to public office.  It's easy to say "pass on
> the later", but they will eventually get hired because they managed to
> squeak through an A+ or Microsoft certification and someone scrapes the
> bottom of the barrel because they're not willing to pay for talent.
>
> Or maybe they'll just be the the offspring of a friend of the person in
> the corner office.  I wish I could say I've never seen that happen!
>
>
>
> Confidentiality Notice:
> This electronic message and any attachments may contain confidential or
> privileged information, and is intended only for the individual or entity
> identified above as the addressee. If you are not the addressee (or the
> employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the addressee), or if this
> message has been addressed to you in error, you are hereby notified that
> you may not copy, forward, disclose or use any part of this message or any
> attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail or
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>
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Re: Mailing list "reply-to" setting

[Carlos M. martinez]

My mail setup is as limited as my eyesight. As I mentioned, I have
emails in my inbox and filter afterwards in order to keep mbox size at
reasonable levels. In this way I don't forget to check this or that folder.

While on inbox I filter by looking at the tags. Works really well and I
know quite a few people who do the same. I counted and I'm subscribed to
over 50 mailing lists and this is the only one which does not tag the
subject.

Probably you've discussed this in the past (I'm a rather new
subscriber), so I apologize for bringing up a dead horse.

regards,

Carlos

On 5/8/13 10:53 PM, Michael McNally wrote:
> On 5/8/13 9:43 AM, Carlos M. martinez wrote:
>> Agreed, but, subject tagging is very useful for those who prefer to have
>> things hit your inbox first, before archiving. And there seems to be a
>> lot more agreement on the tagging issue than on the reply to.
> 
> Unless your mail setup is extremely restricted in what it can filter
> on, you have several choices of header which can be used by an
> automated filter to detect and classify appropriately according to list.
> 
> Personally I have procmail file bind-users traffic based on the
> "List-Id:" header, but I realize you may be in a different environment
> with different tools available.)
> 
>List-Id: BIND Users Mailing List 
> 
> Michael McNally
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Re: architecture question

[Dave Warren]

On 2013-05-09 11:27, Jeremy P wrote:
I certainly didn't intend to spark off such a firestorm with my 
original question.  I have learned a lot from the debate though.


On the question of what to use with students, it is a fine thing to 
say "we should only do things the way they are done in real life so 
students don't learn bad habits", but I'm guessing that comes from 
people who have spent very little time in a classroom that has fiscal 
and technical limitations.  If I followed that mantra I would never be 
able to do anything with students other than read out of a book and 
lecture.  We strive to get them as close to real life as financial and 
technical restraints allow. Some have recommended I get a sub domain 
on the school's domain.  Maybe at your company/school that's easy to 
accomplish, but here that would be quite an amount of effort to earn a 
rejection letter.  I'll probably just purchase somedomain.com 
 and handout sub domains, but I won't have 
resources to setup a public facing server that can properly do delegation.


It doesn't necessarily need to be public-facing. Your students will all 
be setting up DNS servers too (or at least I don't see how a MS AD 
course could get by without your students running their own DNS), you 
can have them use your DNS server for resolution, or via a stub zone, 
and delegate from your server.


This also means that students can optionally set up trusts between their 
domains, and their domains can otherwise interact with each other, if 
this is desirable :)


Assuming your student environments don't get public IPs, there's 
probably little advantage in having it fully resolve up from the public 
roots anyway.


However, owning the domain you use as a root will help them to 
understand that making up a .local or .lan isn't a good idea, whereas if 
you do it in class with a "We wouldn't do this in the real world", 
they'll do it in the real world with a "We shouldn't do this in an ideal 
world, but it's good enough for our little clas^H^H^Hompany"


(Or at least that's what I blame for some of the dumb decisions I made 
that I'm still stuck with, like my poor internal naming choice)



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Re: Mailing list "reply-to" setting

[James]

On 5/9/2013 5:02 PM, Carlos M. martinez wrote:

My mail setup is as limited as my eyesight. As I mentioned, I have
emails in my inbox and filter afterwards in order to keep mbox size at
reasonable levels. In this way I don't forget to check this or that folder.

While on inbox I filter by looking at the tags. Works really well and I
know quite a few people who do the same. I counted and I'm subscribed to
over 50 mailing lists and this is the only one which does not tag the
subject.

Probably you've discussed this in the past (I'm a rather new
subscriber), so I apologize for bringing up a dead horse.

regards,

Carlos

On 5/8/13 10:53 PM, Michael McNally wrote:

On 5/8/13 9:43 AM, Carlos M. martinez wrote:

Agreed, but, subject tagging is very useful for those who prefer to have
things hit your inbox first, before archiving. And there seems to be a
lot more agreement on the tagging issue than on the reply to.


Unless your mail setup is extremely restricted in what it can filter
on, you have several choices of header which can be used by an
automated filter to detect and classify appropriately according to list.

Personally I have procmail file bind-users traffic based on the
"List-Id:" header, but I realize you may be in a different environment
with different tools available.)

List-Id: BIND Users Mailing List 

Michael McNally
ISC Support
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Hello,

I want to mention that the ThunderBird e-mail application by Mozilla 
works great and groups the topics appropriately. It looks fairly nice 
and appropriate too. I use it on Windows computers and a variety of 
"plugins" end up available. A variety of ways exist to block e-mails 
from specific domains, if I recall correctly, but then I mostly work 
with Microsoft Windows systems (I apologize). The ThunderBird program 
runs on a variety of systems including Linux, et al.


I currently operate no DNS or X-Mail systems but I know all systems 
provide a way to block outgoing mail and HTTP/HTTPS access to specific 
domains, even the Microsoft Windows systems.


I miss the old newsgroups that used to exist and I miss Outlook Express 
too. ThunderBird provides a way to group the topics and it works very well.


I hope this helps you with your e-mail problems. ThunderBird ends up as 
open-source software and I think they provide already compiled software 
as well to many different operating systems. The text-size and other 
(font selection) within the application either works as the operating 
system configures it, or as configured in the about:config or other 
configuration files.


--
James And Imelda Carlock


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Re: Mailing list "reply-to" setting

[Sten Carlsen]

This is also the way I use mail, so +1.


On 09/05/13 23:02, Carlos M. martinez wrote:
> My mail setup is as limited as my eyesight. As I mentioned, I have
> emails in my inbox and filter afterwards in order to keep mbox size at
> reasonable levels. In this way I don't forget to check this or that folder.
>
> While on inbox I filter by looking at the tags. Works really well and I
> know quite a few people who do the same. I counted and I'm subscribed to
> over 50 mailing lists and this is the only one which does not tag the
> subject.
>
> Probably you've discussed this in the past (I'm a rather new
> subscriber), so I apologize for bringing up a dead horse.
>
> regards,
>
> Carlos
>
> On 5/8/13 10:53 PM, Michael McNally wrote:
>> On 5/8/13 9:43 AM, Carlos M. martinez wrote:
>>> Agreed, but, subject tagging is very useful for those who prefer to have
>>> things hit your inbox first, before archiving. And there seems to be a
>>> lot more agreement on the tagging issue than on the reply to.
>> Unless your mail setup is extremely restricted in what it can filter
>> on, you have several choices of header which can be used by an
>> automated filter to detect and classify appropriately according to list.
>>
>> Personally I have procmail file bind-users traffic based on the
>> "List-Id:" header, but I realize you may be in a different environment
>> with different tools available.)
>>
>>List-Id: BIND Users Mailing List 
>>
>> Michael McNally
>> ISC Support
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-- 
Best regards

Sten Carlsen

No improvements come from shouting:
   "MALE BOVINE MANURE!!!"

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Re: Mailing list "reply-to" setting

[Chris Buxton]

On May 9, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Carlos M. martinez wrote:

> My mail setup is as limited as my eyesight. As I mentioned, I have
> emails in my inbox and filter afterwards in order to keep mbox size at
> reasonable levels. In this way I don't forget to check this or that folder.

I'm sorry, but I have to ask. Does your mail client not download all your mail 
and show you which mailboxes have new messages? I can't conceive of using a 
mail client that doesn't do this -- without it, automated filtering is useless, 
because as you said you would have to check every folder to see if there are 
new messages in it.

My mail client shows the number of unread messages next to each mail folder, 
except for those that have no unread messages. I do not have to click on each 
folder to cause this to happen.

Regards,
Chris Buxton
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Re: Mailing list "reply-to" setting

[Doug Barton]

Seriously, can we stop discussing this now?

If you need subject line tags, or your mail client doesn't properly know 
how to respond only to the list, or whatever -- please go work that out 
on your own.


The majority of users on the list don't want or need these things, and 
many of us find things like subject line tags a repulsive waste of 
screen real estate.


I normally stay out of these discussions, but this message, "I use mail 
a certain way, so everyone else should have to put up with the things I 
need to accommodate my way of working" was just too much.


TRY filtering your mail into proper folders ... do it for a week, a 
month, whatever. If your mail client doesn't notify you when mail gets 
put into a folder, get a better mail client. Once you try doing it that 
way for a while chances are near 100% that you will like it much better.


Doug

PS, you kids get off my lawn!


On 05/09/2013 03:43 PM, Sten Carlsen wrote:

This is also the way I use mail, so +1.


On 09/05/13 23:02, Carlos M. martinez wrote:

My mail setup is as limited as my eyesight. As I mentioned, I have
emails in my inbox and filter afterwards in order to keep mbox size at
reasonable levels. In this way I don't forget to check this or that folder.

While on inbox I filter by looking at the tags. Works really well and I
know quite a few people who do the same. I counted and I'm subscribed to
over 50 mailing lists and this is the only one which does not tag the
subject.

Probably you've discussed this in the past (I'm a rather new
subscriber), so I apologize for bringing up a dead horse.

regards,

Carlos

On 5/8/13 10:53 PM, Michael McNally wrote:

On 5/8/13 9:43 AM, Carlos M. martinez wrote:

Agreed, but, subject tagging is very useful for those who prefer to have
things hit your inbox first, before archiving. And there seems to be a
lot more agreement on the tagging issue than on the reply to.

Unless your mail setup is extremely restricted in what it can filter
on, you have several choices of header which can be used by an
automated filter to detect and classify appropriately according to list.

Personally I have procmail file bind-users traffic based on the
"List-Id:" header, but I realize you may be in a different environment
with different tools available.)

List-Id: BIND Users Mailing List 

Michael McNally
ISC Support



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Re: architecture question

[Dave Warren]

On 2013-05-08 11:13, btb wrote:
it's also mildly humorous that they used to quite religiously endorse 
.local, in some documents even categorizing use of the same domain 
name on an internal and external network as a "security risk". 


Keep in mind that this was before ubiquitous, always-on TCP/IP was the 
norm. It was coming, but we weren't there yet and Microsoft was still 
catching up.


I still think that a reserved-for-local-LAN-TLD use might not be a bad 
idea, similar to how we have private network IP addresses for cases 
where there is internal resistance to using a real domain.


--
Dave Warren
http://www.hireahit.com/
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davejwarren

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