Re: [AFMUG] campground WiFi "booster"

[Adam Moffett]

Yeah this.

On 9/28/2020 11:49 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
The perfect solution is to use a wifi client like a Loco M2 as a 
station. Then wire it to your own AP inside the camper. That way it's 
not an extender and doesn't cut throughput in half.


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:12 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Customers sometimes ask what is the best “WiFi booster” for their
RV or camper.  I assume they’re talking about a range extender. 
I’m generally not a big fan of range extenders, but if you’re
sitting in a big aluminum can, I guess you need something.  (I
thought most campers these days were fiberglass though.)

I have no clue what to tell them. Anybody have an answer?

Doing a Google search, I see there are somewhat pricey devices
from vendors like Winegard that mount on the roof, run on 12VDC,
and some can even take a SIM card to use LTE if there is no WiFi
available.  Or should they just get a regular range extender and
set it in a window powered from 110VAC?

I’m also going to assume that at a campground, the usual procedure
of pressing the WPS button doesn’t apply, and you’d have to
actually tell the extender the WiFi password?

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Re: [AFMUG] campground WiFi "booster"

[Adam Moffett]

If I was gonna get fancy I'd figure on a telescoping mast that flips 
down and stows on the side of the trailer, and a client bridge with a 
directional antenna that I could aim at the AP.


On 9/28/2020 11:49 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
The perfect solution is to use a wifi client like a Loco M2 as a 
station. Then wire it to your own AP inside the camper. That way it's 
not an extender and doesn't cut throughput in half.


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:12 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Customers sometimes ask what is the best “WiFi booster” for their
RV or camper.  I assume they’re talking about a range extender. 
I’m generally not a big fan of range extenders, but if you’re
sitting in a big aluminum can, I guess you need something.  (I
thought most campers these days were fiberglass though.)

I have no clue what to tell them. Anybody have an answer?

Doing a Google search, I see there are somewhat pricey devices
from vendors like Winegard that mount on the roof, run on 12VDC,
and some can even take a SIM card to use LTE if there is no WiFi
available.  Or should they just get a regular range extender and
set it in a window powered from 110VAC?

I’m also going to assume that at a campground, the usual procedure
of pressing the WPS button doesn’t apply, and you’d have to
actually tell the extender the WiFi password?

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Re: [AFMUG] campground WiFi "booster"

[TJ Trout]

Rt-n12 $18 and can do ap mode, normal router, extender etc etc even dual
wan !

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 4:24 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> If I was gonna get fancy I'd figure on a telescoping mast that flips down
> and stows on the side of the trailer, and a client bridge with a
> directional antenna that I could aim at the AP.
> On 9/28/2020 11:49 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> The perfect solution is to use a wifi client like a Loco M2 as a station.
> Then wire it to your own AP inside the camper. That way it's not an
> extender and doesn't cut throughput in half.
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Customers sometimes ask what is the best “WiFi booster” for their RV or
>> camper.  I assume they’re talking about a range extender.  I’m generally
>> not a big fan of range extenders, but if you’re sitting in a big aluminum
>> can, I guess you need something.  (I thought most campers these days were
>> fiberglass though.)
>>
>>
>>
>> I have no clue what to tell them.  Anybody have an answer?
>>
>>
>>
>> Doing a Google search, I see there are somewhat pricey devices from
>> vendors like Winegard that mount on the roof, run on 12VDC, and some can
>> even take a SIM card to use LTE if there is no WiFi available.  Or should
>> they just get a regular range extender and set it in a window powered from
>> 110VAC?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m also going to assume that at a campground, the usual procedure of
>> pressing the WPS button doesn’t apply, and you’d have to actually tell the
>> extender the WiFi password?
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] campground WiFi "booster"

[Robert]

They need an actual router with a radio receiver attached.  Many RV 
parks don't have a clue how to run their wifi and attaching directly to 
it is asking to get hacked.  You want to set up your own DNS entries as 
well.


On 9/28/20 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Customers sometimes ask what is the best “WiFi booster” for their RV 
or camper.  I assume they’re talking about a range extender.  I’m 
generally not a big fan of range extenders, but if you’re sitting in a 
big aluminum can, I guess you need something.  (I thought most campers 
these days were fiberglass though.)


I have no clue what to tell them.  Anybody have an answer?

Doing a Google search, I see there are somewhat pricey devices from 
vendors like Winegard that mount on the roof, run on 12VDC, and some 
can even take a SIM card to use LTE if there is no WiFi available.  Or 
should they just get a regular range extender and set it in a window 
powered from 110VAC?


I’m also going to assume that at a campground, the usual procedure of 
pressing the WPS button doesn’t apply, and you’d have to actually tell 
the extender the WiFi password?





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[AFMUG] speed tests and TCP/IP overhead

[Ken Hohhof]

Two part question:

 

1) If you set a speed limit, like 10 Mbps, using Preseem or Mikrotik queue
or something similar, what do you expect to see at a speedtest site like
speedtest.net?  I'm thinking something like 9.5 Mbps.  I'm assuming the
bandwidth manager is looking at line rate but the speed test looks at
payload.

 

2)  Do you "gross up" your speed limits so that the customer will see 100%
of the advertised speed when they run a speedtest?  If so, by how much?  Or
do you assume any reasonable person when they see 9.5 Mbps but are paying
for 10 will say "close enough"?  I seem to remember that back when we were
doing lineshared DSL, Verizon grossed up the modem line rates, but AT&T
didn't.

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Re: [AFMUG] speed tests and TCP/IP overhead

[Darin Steffl]

On a 25 Mbps plan for example, we provision the speed bucket to 28 Mbps
flat. We use Preseem for the rate limiting. Generally on a speedtest, we
see 26-27 Mbps on tests when provisioned for 28 Mbps on a 25 Mbps plan. If
you provisioned to 26 Mbps, you would probably see exactly 25 Mbps.

I think it's great to overprovision to keep customers happy. The difference
is negligible when you bump it 1-3 Mbps over the rate plan just to help the
speedtest get at least what they pay for. It's easier than arguing with the
customer.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:29 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Two part question:
>
>
>
> 1) If you set a speed limit, like 10 Mbps, using Preseem or Mikrotik queue
> or something similar, what do you expect to see at a speedtest site like
> speedtest.net?  I’m thinking something like 9.5 Mbps.  I’m assuming the
> bandwidth manager is looking at line rate but the speed test looks at
> payload.
>
>
>
> 2)  Do you “gross up” your speed limits so that the customer will see 100%
> of the advertised speed when they run a speedtest?  If so, by how much?  Or
> do you assume any reasonable person when they see 9.5 Mbps but are paying
> for 10 will say “close enough”?  I seem to remember that back when we were
> doing lineshared DSL, Verizon grossed up the modem line rates, but AT&T
> didn’t.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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Minnesota WiFi
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507-634-WiFi
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Re: [AFMUG] speed tests and TCP/IP overhead

[Adam Moffett]

Overhead depends on packet size and who's exactly measuring at what at 
what layer, but probably about 5-10%.  I bump customers up 10% so on a 
10meg they'll see something like 10.1 or 10.2.  I know Verizon FiOS does 
this too.  I figure if it saves even a handful of phone calls per year 
then it was worth it.



On 9/29/2020 10:29 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Two part question:

1) If you set a speed limit, like 10 Mbps, using Preseem or Mikrotik 
queue or something similar, what do you expect to see at a speedtest 
site like speedtest.net?  I’m thinking something like 9.5 Mbps.  I’m 
assuming the bandwidth manager is looking at line rate but the speed 
test looks at payload.


2)  Do you “gross up” your speed limits so that the customer will see 
100% of the advertised speed when they run a speedtest?  If so, by how 
much?  Or do you assume any reasonable person when they see 9.5 Mbps 
but are paying for 10 will say “close enough”?  I seem to remember 
that back when we were doing lineshared DSL, Verizon grossed up the 
modem line rates, but AT&T didn’t.



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Re: [AFMUG] speed tests and TCP/IP overhead

[can...@believewireless.net]

TCP/IP overhead is 7% so we just add 10%. 10Mbps would be 11Mbps.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 10:41 AM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> On a 25 Mbps plan for example, we provision the speed bucket to 28 Mbps
> flat. We use Preseem for the rate limiting. Generally on a speedtest, we
> see 26-27 Mbps on tests when provisioned for 28 Mbps on a 25 Mbps plan. If
> you provisioned to 26 Mbps, you would probably see exactly 25 Mbps.
>
> I think it's great to overprovision to keep customers happy. The
> difference is negligible when you bump it 1-3 Mbps over the rate plan just
> to help the speedtest get at least what they pay for. It's easier than
> arguing with the customer.
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:29 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Two part question:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) If you set a speed limit, like 10 Mbps, using Preseem or Mikrotik
>> queue or something similar, what do you expect to see at a speedtest site
>> like speedtest.net?  I’m thinking something like 9.5 Mbps.  I’m assuming
>> the bandwidth manager is looking at line rate but the speed test looks at
>> payload.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2)  Do you “gross up” your speed limits so that the customer will see
>> 100% of the advertised speed when they run a speedtest?  If so, by how
>> much?  Or do you assume any reasonable person when they see 9.5 Mbps but
>> are paying for 10 will say “close enough”?  I seem to remember that back
>> when we were doing lineshared DSL, Verizon grossed up the modem line rates,
>> but AT&T didn’t.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
> Like us on Facebook 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Resellers

[Nate Burke]

Just had to deal with another reseller.  Link to a large factory. Link 
goes down at 4:30pm Friday.  Nobody at plant can escort us in until 
Monday.  Reseller sends email every 6 hours all weekend asking for 
status update, We reply 'we can't get in to work on it until Monday'.  
Reseller sends angry email Sunday night saying 'CIRCUIT HAS BEEN DOWN 
FOR OVER 48 HOURS, YOU MUST ESCALATE THIS IMMEDIATELY'  Get to plant on 
Monday, and Radio needed reboot.  I think next time I'm not even going 
to schedule a visit until they can complete basic troubleshooting.


On 9/18/2020 12:52 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
'That's some nice clean spectrum you're using, Be a shame if some 
noise were to suddenly show up.  Hey Lou, Be Careful wit that AP. Man, 
you really gotta watch these antennas, they just kinda point wherever 
they want, you don't want this AP pointing at you do you?'


On 9/18/2020 12:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
That's verging on mafia tactics.  You want to do business on my 
street, me and the boys get a cut.  Tony here is our bagman, he'll 
come by every month to collect.  Nice little Internet business you 
got there, shame if something happened to it.



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2020 12:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT:  Resellers

On 9/18/20 10:16 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

There can be drama even if you just do commissions.  There can be
arguments about whether a sale was through the reseller or direct, and
further friction over when they get paid out.  It's easy to see why
companies make a rigid reseller system.  Then again, if you were ever
a DSL or satellite retailer you can probably attest that it's no fun
being the reseller in a rigid system either.  I'm kind of sour on the
whole concept.


My rule is that the reseller/agent gets the customer to sign the 
contract, not me. I do not want to hear crap like did you follow up 
on my lead yet, did you get my lead to sign yet, I sent you a bunch 
of leads when do I get paid, etc.


The best one was when someone contacted me asking for stuff and I 
worked when them for about a week, a pretty normal new potential 
customer exchange. Then they went silent. About a month later their 
so-called telecom agent contacts me and says I have to pay him his 
cut if I want them to complete the process and sign up.








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Re: [AFMUG] speed tests and TCP/IP overhead

[Nate Burke]

I think the big guys do that Too.  I remember getting a 100mb Comcast 
coax line, and it testing at 110mb,so the tech could point at his laptop 
and say O look!


I set the queue about 1-2mb higher than the plan rate.

On 9/29/2020 9:48 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
Here are a couple screenshots showing my home at different speed 
buckets using Preseem.


First one is provisioned for 5.3 Mbps down, 1.5 Mbps up. I made sure 
to have no downstream traffic running but I do have one nest camera 
uploading about 300-400 Kbps.


It looks like on this first one, I lost very little from provisioned 
speed on a test. 5.07 Mbps to the set 5.3 Mbps rate.



Second speedtest is provisioned for 16 Mbps down, 6 Mbps up. Actual 
test shows about 15.2 down, 5.2 up.


So you lose a little going through the network and my tests were run 
on WiFi, not hardwired. They might show a little better if hardwired.




On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:40 AM Darin Steffl > wrote:


On a 25 Mbps plan for example, we provision the speed bucket to 28
Mbps flat. We use Preseem for the rate limiting. Generally on a
speedtest, we see 26-27 Mbps on tests when provisioned for 28 Mbps
on a 25 Mbps plan. If you provisioned to 26 Mbps, you would
probably see exactly 25 Mbps.

I think it's great to overprovision to keep customers happy. The
difference is negligible when you bump it 1-3 Mbps over the rate
plan just to help the speedtest get at least what they pay for.
It's easier than arguing with the customer.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:29 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Two part question:

1) If you set a speed limit, like 10 Mbps, using Preseem or
Mikrotik queue or something similar, what do you expect to see
at a speedtest site like speedtest.net ?
I’m thinking something like 9.5 Mbps.  I’m assuming the
bandwidth manager is looking at line rate but the speed test
looks at payload.

2)  Do you “gross up” your speed limits so that the customer
will see 100% of the advertised speed when they run a
speedtest?  If so, by how much?  Or do you assume any
reasonable person when they see 9.5 Mbps but are paying for 10
will say “close enough”?  I seem to remember that back when we
were doing lineshared DSL, Verizon grossed up the modem line
rates, but AT&T didn’t.

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-- 
Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook 



--
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Minnesota WiFi
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507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook 



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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium ePMP 1000

[Josh Luthman]

IP Scanner will only work in the subnet your device's interface is
configured to, ie 192.168.1.0/24

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 9:51 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Hmm..I wonder why IP Scanner didn't find it
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 5:55 PM Rex-List Account 
> wrote:
>
>> If I remember correctly CPE was 169.254.1.1 and AP was 169.254.1.2
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 25, 2020 1:58 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium epmp 1000
>>
>>
>>
>> That IP worked on CPE but I didn't find the AP...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 12:03 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Actually if you can't access it and ping it, you're probably trying to
>> hit the master/AP side coming from the station side.  You can't do that
>> with the default security config.  You will have to access it on the master
>> side.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 2:01 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> The radio is accessible at 169.254.1.1/24 if it's a version past
>> like...2015...
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 1:41 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey ..I have an AP radio that I can ping across a PTP link from CPE but
>> not access via browser.
>>
>> It seems to be keeping DHCP from getting delivered
>>
>> I drove to other side and connected to it via switch...even made an IP
>> address change...I have Internet if I give my laptop a static IP address
>> but it does not receive DHCP 
>>
>> The RF link is solid... getting  10 by 7 mbps consistently..
>>
>> Cambium tool doesn't work...
>>
>> Tried https , nothing...any ideas?
>>
>> Is radio bad?
>>
>> Perplexed in El Paso..
>>
>> Links have been up 4 years.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Virus-free. www.avg.com
>> 
>>
>>
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium ePMP 1000

[Josh Luthman]

No you're confusing two different things.

169.254.1.1/24 is on every device.

192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2 was on the AP/SM respectively (in addition to
169.254.1.1).  This is the IP you replace when you configure the device.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 7:55 PM Rex-List Account 
wrote:

> If I remember correctly CPE was 169.254.1.1 and AP was 169.254.1.2
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Friday, September 25, 2020 1:58 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium epmp 1000
>
>
>
> That IP worked on CPE but I didn't find the AP...
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 12:03 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Actually if you can't access it and ping it, you're probably trying to hit
> the master/AP side coming from the station side.  You can't do that with
> the default security config.  You will have to access it on the master side.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 2:01 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> The radio is accessible at 169.254.1.1/24 if it's a version past
> like...2015...
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 1:41 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> Hey ..I have an AP radio that I can ping across a PTP link from CPE but
> not access via browser.
>
> It seems to be keeping DHCP from getting delivered
>
> I drove to other side and connected to it via switch...even made an IP
> address change...I have Internet if I give my laptop a static IP address
> but it does not receive DHCP 
>
> The RF link is solid... getting  10 by 7 mbps consistently..
>
> Cambium tool doesn't work...
>
> Tried https , nothing...any ideas?
>
> Is radio bad?
>
> Perplexed in El Paso..
>
> Links have been up 4 years.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com
> 
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Josh Luthman]

I've been using VMware ESX and now ESXi for a few years.  It works just
fine.  I honestly have no complaints over it.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 5:52 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Cli,web
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 11:34 AM dave  wrote:
>
>> I have never tried proxmox...
>>  What kind of hypervisor interface does it have?
>>
>>
>> On 9/27/20 9:39 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> Proxmox for sure. I've used Proxmox for 10+ years and VMWare for probably
>> 8 years. I'm phasing out VMWare in favor of Proxmox.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>> 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> 
>> *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 9:27:22 AM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Virtual machines
>>
>> I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15
>> years behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.
>>
>> I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups,
>> snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority
>> for me (at least I don't think so).
>>
>> Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.
>>
>> It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others?
>> Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
>> important for sure.
>>
>> I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I
>> started.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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[AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

[Eric Muehleisen]

What are some cheap and easy options you guys have used to get remote
subscribers connectivity? Many rural subscribers have break over poles that
can reach 20-25 ft. I'm looking for 40-50 ft options. Looking to mount
Force 300-25 or 450b HG SM's.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Resellers

[Matt Hoppes]

Yup... hate them, we've gotten several calls from CCR, DSR, 
Asentinal DSR is by far the worst.


On 9/29/20 1:03 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
Just had to deal with another reseller.  Link to a large factory. Link 
goes down at 4:30pm Friday.  Nobody at plant can escort us in until 
Monday.  Reseller sends email every 6 hours all weekend asking for 
status update, We reply 'we can't get in to work on it until Monday'. 
Reseller sends angry email Sunday night saying 'CIRCUIT HAS BEEN DOWN 
FOR OVER 48 HOURS, YOU MUST ESCALATE THIS IMMEDIATELY'  Get to plant on 
Monday, and Radio needed reboot.  I think next time I'm not even going 
to schedule a visit until they can complete basic troubleshooting.


On 9/18/2020 12:52 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
'That's some nice clean spectrum you're using, Be a shame if some 
noise were to suddenly show up.  Hey Lou, Be Careful wit that AP. Man, 
you really gotta watch these antennas, they just kinda point wherever 
they want, you don't want this AP pointing at you do you?'


On 9/18/2020 12:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
That's verging on mafia tactics.  You want to do business on my 
street, me and the boys get a cut.  Tony here is our bagman, he'll 
come by every month to collect.  Nice little Internet business you 
got there, shame if something happened to it.



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2020 12:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT:  Resellers

On 9/18/20 10:16 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

There can be drama even if you just do commissions.  There can be
arguments about whether a sale was through the reseller or direct, and
further friction over when they get paid out.  It's easy to see why
companies make a rigid reseller system.  Then again, if you were ever
a DSL or satellite retailer you can probably attest that it's no fun
being the reseller in a rigid system either.  I'm kind of sour on the
whole concept.


My rule is that the reseller/agent gets the customer to sign the 
contract, not me. I do not want to hear crap like did you follow up 
on my lead yet, did you get my lead to sign yet, I sent you a bunch 
of leads when do I get paid, etc.


The best one was when someone contacted me asking for stuff and I 
worked when them for about a week, a pretty normal new potential 
customer exchange. Then they went silent. About a month later their 
so-called telecom agent contacts me and says I have to pay him his 
cut if I want them to complete the process and sign up.










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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Resellers

[can...@believewireless.net]

If this is a DIA circuit, you should have rolled a truck and power cycled
the radio from the roof.
Then... no e-mails or calls.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 2:52 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Yup... hate them, we've gotten several calls from CCR, DSR,
> Asentinal DSR is by far the worst.
>
> On 9/29/20 1:03 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > Just had to deal with another reseller.  Link to a large factory. Link
> > goes down at 4:30pm Friday.  Nobody at plant can escort us in until
> > Monday.  Reseller sends email every 6 hours all weekend asking for
> > status update, We reply 'we can't get in to work on it until Monday'.
> > Reseller sends angry email Sunday night saying 'CIRCUIT HAS BEEN DOWN
> > FOR OVER 48 HOURS, YOU MUST ESCALATE THIS IMMEDIATELY'  Get to plant on
> > Monday, and Radio needed reboot.  I think next time I'm not even going
> > to schedule a visit until they can complete basic troubleshooting.
> >
> > On 9/18/2020 12:52 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
> >> 'That's some nice clean spectrum you're using, Be a shame if some
> >> noise were to suddenly show up.  Hey Lou, Be Careful wit that AP. Man,
> >> you really gotta watch these antennas, they just kinda point wherever
> >> they want, you don't want this AP pointing at you do you?'
> >>
> >> On 9/18/2020 12:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >>> That's verging on mafia tactics.  You want to do business on my
> >>> street, me and the boys get a cut.  Tony here is our bagman, he'll
> >>> come by every month to collect.  Nice little Internet business you
> >>> got there, shame if something happened to it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
> >>> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2020 12:30 PM
> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT:  Resellers
> >>>
> >>> On 9/18/20 10:16 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>  There can be drama even if you just do commissions.  There can be
>  arguments about whether a sale was through the reseller or direct, and
>  further friction over when they get paid out.  It's easy to see why
>  companies make a rigid reseller system.  Then again, if you were ever
>  a DSL or satellite retailer you can probably attest that it's no fun
>  being the reseller in a rigid system either.  I'm kind of sour on the
>  whole concept.
> >>>
> >>> My rule is that the reseller/agent gets the customer to sign the
> >>> contract, not me. I do not want to hear crap like did you follow up
> >>> on my lead yet, did you get my lead to sign yet, I sent you a bunch
> >>> of leads when do I get paid, etc.
> >>>
> >>> The best one was when someone contacted me asking for stuff and I
> >>> worked when them for about a week, a pretty normal new potential
> >>> customer exchange. Then they went silent. About a month later their
> >>> so-called telecom agent contacts me and says I have to pay him his
> >>> cut if I want them to complete the process and sign up.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

[Craig House]

60 foot utility poles go 8 feet in the ground in our area resulting in a 52 
foot above ground option and you can extend that with the pipe to pipe clamp 
and some rigid conduit. They are not cheap to get in the ground but I do have 
the equipment to do it. The nice thing about them is you can put them in the 
right of way with the proper permits. I would not recommend using them for 
licensed back holes because they do move substantially at the top in the wind 
and makes it very difficult to align them but for 5 GHz they work fine

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2020, at 13:39, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:
> 
> 
> What are some cheap and easy options you guys have used to get remote 
> subscribers connectivity? Many rural subscribers have break over poles that 
> can reach 20-25 ft. I'm looking for 40-50 ft options. Looking to mount Force 
> 300-25 or 450b HG SM's.
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Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

[Adam Moffett]

Movement in the wind doesn't change the angle of the beam enough to 
matter.  Bigger problem is the whole pole moving from settling earth, or 
twisting when it dries out.  Those issues seem to stop coming up after a 
few years.


in any case, I definitely agree that a 5ghz dish is less of a problem.

On 9/29/2020 3:06 PM, Craig House wrote:

60 foot utility poles go 8 feet in the ground in our area resulting in a 52 
foot above ground option and you can extend that with the pipe to pipe clamp 
and some rigid conduit. They are not cheap to get in the ground but I do have 
the equipment to do it. The nice thing about them is you can put them in the 
right of way with the proper permits. I would not recommend using them for 
licensed back holes because they do move substantially at the top in the wind 
and makes it very difficult to align them but for 5 GHz they work fine

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 29, 2020, at 13:39, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:


What are some cheap and easy options you guys have used to get remote 
subscribers connectivity? Many rural subscribers have break over poles that can 
reach 20-25 ft. I'm looking for 40-50 ft options. Looking to mount Force 300-25 
or 450b HG SM's.


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Re: [AFMUG] speed tests and TCP/IP overhead

[Matt Hoppes]

We usually provision at 10% over the speed.

On 9/29/20 10:29 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Two part question:

1) If you set a speed limit, like 10 Mbps, using Preseem or Mikrotik 
queue or something similar, what do you expect to see at a speedtest 
site like speedtest.net?  I’m thinking something like 9.5 Mbps.  I’m 
assuming the bandwidth manager is looking at line rate but the speed 
test looks at payload.


2)  Do you “gross up” your speed limits so that the customer will see 
100% of the advertised speed when they run a speedtest?  If so, by how 
much?  Or do you assume any reasonable person when they see 9.5 Mbps but 
are paying for 10 will say “close enough”?  I seem to remember that back 
when we were doing lineshared DSL, Verizon grossed up the modem line 
rates, but AT&T didn’t.





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Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

[Eric Muehleisen]

I assume you get these poles from the utility company? Can you share how
much?

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 2:07 PM Craig House 
wrote:

> 60 foot utility poles go 8 feet in the ground in our area resulting in a
> 52 foot above ground option and you can extend that with the pipe to pipe
> clamp and some rigid conduit. They are not cheap to get in the ground but I
> do have the equipment to do it. The nice thing about them is you can put
> them in the right of way with the proper permits. I would not recommend
> using them for licensed back holes because they do move substantially at
> the top in the wind and makes it very difficult to align them but for 5 GHz
> they work fine
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 29, 2020, at 13:39, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > What are some cheap and easy options you guys have used to get remote
> subscribers connectivity? Many rural subscribers have break over poles that
> can reach 20-25 ft. I'm looking for 40-50 ft options. Looking to mount
> Force 300-25 or 450b HG SM's.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

[Craig House]

I get them directly from the utility pole producer. There’s a distribution yard 
in eastern Kansas that has them shipped to them from Alabama. They have to come 
by rail car. They will deliver a dozen of them at a time to me at my location 
for around $8000. Obviously you should find someplace close to you for delivery 
convenience and price is probably very depending on areas of the country. If 
you need someone to put them in for you and you had them already on your 
premises I’d be willing to talk to you off list. It wouldn’t make sense for one 
or two but if you had a dozen of them or half dozen of them sitting at the 
jobsites ready to go I have a Derek truck with a auger and Core That I set them 
with here 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2020, at 14:52, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:
> 
> 
> I assume you get these poles from the utility company? Can you share how 
> much? 
> 
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 2:07 PM Craig House  wrote:
>> 60 foot utility poles go 8 feet in the ground in our area resulting in a 52 
>> foot above ground option and you can extend that with the pipe to pipe clamp 
>> and some rigid conduit. They are not cheap to get in the ground but I do 
>> have the equipment to do it. The nice thing about them is you can put them 
>> in the right of way with the proper permits. I would not recommend using 
>> them for licensed back holes because they do move substantially at the top 
>> in the wind and makes it very difficult to align them but for 5 GHz they 
>> work fine
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Sep 29, 2020, at 13:39, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > What are some cheap and easy options you guys have used to get remote 
>> > subscribers connectivity? Many rural subscribers have break over poles 
>> > that can reach 20-25 ft. I'm looking for 40-50 ft options. Looking to 
>> > mount Force 300-25 or 450b HG SM's.
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] Charging for Training

[Matt Hoppes]

What's standard procedure when a large facility requires you to take 
training while on site before you can perform the install so that you 
know how to do it the way they want (for safety?).


Is it normal to charge them for the time your tech is there for that 
training?


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Re: [AFMUG] speed tests and TCP/IP overhead

[chuck]

One time I checked the difference was 6%

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 1:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Ken Hohhof
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] speed tests and TCP/IP overhead

We usually provision at 10% over the speed.

On 9/29/20 10:29 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Two part question:

1) If you set a speed limit, like 10 Mbps, using Preseem or Mikrotik queue 
or something similar, what do you expect to see at a speedtest site like 
speedtest.net?  I’m thinking something like 9.5 Mbps.  I’m assuming the 
bandwidth manager is looking at line rate but the speed test looks at 
payload.


2)  Do you “gross up” your speed limits so that the customer will see 100% 
of the advertised speed when they run a speedtest?  If so, by how much? 
Or do you assume any reasonable person when they see 9.5 Mbps but are 
paying for 10 will say “close enough”?  I seem to remember that back when 
we were doing lineshared DSL, Verizon grossed up the modem line rates, but 
AT&T didn’t.





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Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

[Eric Muehleisen]

Thanks Craig. Good info. I may hit you up.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 2:57 PM Craig House 
wrote:

> I get them directly from the utility pole producer. There’s a distribution
> yard in eastern Kansas that has them shipped to them from Alabama. They
> have to come by rail car. They will deliver a dozen of them at a time to me
> at my location for around $8000. Obviously you should find someplace close
> to you for delivery convenience and price is probably very depending on
> areas of the country. If you need someone to put them in for you and you
> had them already on your premises I’d be willing to talk to you off list.
> It wouldn’t make sense for one or two but if you had a dozen of them or
> half dozen of them sitting at the jobsites ready to go I have a Derek truck
> with a auger and Core That I set them with here
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 29, 2020, at 14:52, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:
>
> 
> I assume you get these poles from the utility company? Can you share how
> much?
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 2:07 PM Craig House 
> wrote:
>
>> 60 foot utility poles go 8 feet in the ground in our area resulting in a
>> 52 foot above ground option and you can extend that with the pipe to pipe
>> clamp and some rigid conduit. They are not cheap to get in the ground but I
>> do have the equipment to do it. The nice thing about them is you can put
>> them in the right of way with the proper permits. I would not recommend
>> using them for licensed back holes because they do move substantially at
>> the top in the wind and makes it very difficult to align them but for 5 GHz
>> they work fine
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Sep 29, 2020, at 13:39, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:
>> >
>> > 
>> > What are some cheap and easy options you guys have used to get remote
>> subscribers connectivity? Many rural subscribers have break over poles that
>> can reach 20-25 ft. I'm looking for 40-50 ft options. Looking to mount
>> Force 300-25 or 450b HG SM's.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] speed tests and TCP/IP overhead

[dave]

exactly +1
 Also, it will compensate for the loss in some off the shelf routers 
when navigating the poorly written firewalls.



On 9/29/20 9:40 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
On a 25 Mbps plan for example, we provision the speed bucket to 28 
Mbps flat. We use Preseem for the rate limiting. Generally on a 
speedtest, we see 26-27 Mbps on tests when provisioned for 28 Mbps on 
a 25 Mbps plan. If you provisioned to 26 Mbps, you would probably see 
exactly 25 Mbps.


I think it's great to overprovision to keep customers happy. The 
difference is negligible when you bump it 1-3 Mbps over the rate plan 
just to help the speedtest get at least what they pay for. It's easier 
than arguing with the customer.


On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:29 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Two part question:

1) If you set a speed limit, like 10 Mbps, using Preseem or
Mikrotik queue or something similar, what do you expect to see at
a speedtest site like speedtest.net ?  I’m
thinking something like 9.5 Mbps.  I’m assuming the bandwidth
manager is looking at line rate but the speed test looks at payload.

2)  Do you “gross up” your speed limits so that the customer will
see 100% of the advertised speed when they run a speedtest?  If
so, by how much?  Or do you assume any reasonable person when they
see 9.5 Mbps but are paying for 10 will say “close enough”?  I
seem to remember that back when we were doing lineshared DSL,
Verizon grossed up the modem line rates, but AT&T didn’t.

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--
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Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook 



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Re: [AFMUG] Charging for Training

[Mark Radabaugh]

Up to you.   If it’s insanely long we might charge them.   Hour or less I don’t 
care.   We do try to keep track of who the installer / service person who went 
through the training was so that we send the same person back to avoid the 
training issue.

Mark

> On Sep 29, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> What's standard procedure when a large facility requires you to take training 
> while on site before you can perform the install so that you know how to do 
> it the way they want (for safety?).
> 
> Is it normal to charge them for the time your tech is there for that training?
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

[Adam Moffett]

You can also talk to electrical contractors.  I used to get 50ft poles 
(42ft AGL) set for about $1500.  He handled all the logistics of 
stocking and transporting poles.  We'd screw the SM on ahead of time 
with elevation pre-set.  For aligning azimuth the contractor would 
rotate the pole in the hole for us before back-filling.  If it's 
something you're doing just every now and again it might make more sense 
that way.


If you don't have your own bucket then you'll want to pre-drill for 
steps and hammer those in.  They're less than $2 each at linemen-tools.com.



On 9/29/2020 3:51 PM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:
I assume you get these poles from the utility company? Can you share 
how much?


On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 2:07 PM Craig House > wrote:


60 foot utility poles go 8 feet in the ground in our area
resulting in a 52 foot above ground option and you can extend that
with the pipe to pipe clamp and some rigid conduit. They are not
cheap to get in the ground but I do have the equipment to do it.
The nice thing about them is you can put them in the right of way
with the proper permits. I would not recommend using them for
licensed back holes because they do move substantially at the top
in the wind and makes it very difficult to align them but for 5
GHz they work fine

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2020, at 13:39, Eric Muehleisen mailto:ericm...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> 
> What are some cheap and easy options you guys have used to get
remote subscribers connectivity? Many rural subscribers have break
over poles that can reach 20-25 ft. I'm looking for 40-50 ft
options. Looking to mount Force 300-25 or 450b HG SM's.
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Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

[chuck]

Hooks and a belt.  Come on, be a man!

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 2:27 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

You can also talk to electrical contractors.  I used to get 50ft poles (42ft 
AGL) set for about $1500.  He handled all the logistics of stocking and 
transporting poles.  We'd screw the SM on ahead of time with elevation pre-set. 
 For aligning azimuth the contractor would rotate the pole in the hole for us 
before back-filling.  If it's something you're doing just every now and again 
it might make more sense that way.


If you don't have your own bucket then you'll want to pre-drill for steps and 
hammer those in.  They're less than $2 each at linemen-tools.com.



On 9/29/2020 3:51 PM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:

  I assume you get these poles from the utility company? Can you share how 
much? 


  On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 2:07 PM Craig House  wrote:

60 foot utility poles go 8 feet in the ground in our area resulting in a 52 
foot above ground option and you can extend that with the pipe to pipe clamp 
and some rigid conduit. They are not cheap to get in the ground but I do have 
the equipment to do it. The nice thing about them is you can put them in the 
right of way with the proper permits. I would not recommend using them for 
licensed back holes because they do move substantially at the top in the wind 
and makes it very difficult to align them but for 5 GHz they work fine

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2020, at 13:39, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:
> 
> 
> What are some cheap and easy options you guys have used to get remote 
subscribers connectivity? Many rural subscribers have break over poles that can 
reach 20-25 ft. I'm looking for 40-50 ft options. Looking to mount Force 300-25 
or 450b HG SM's.
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Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

[Adam Moffett]

Is my man card permanently lost if I hammer in pole steps instead?  Or 
can I redeem myself somehow?


On 9/29/2020 4:58 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Hooks and a belt.  Come on, be a man!
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 29, 2020 2:27 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

You can also talk to electrical contractors.  I used to get 50ft poles 
(42ft AGL) set for about $1500.  He handled all the logistics of 
stocking and transporting poles. We'd screw the SM on ahead of time 
with elevation pre-set.  For aligning azimuth the contractor would 
rotate the pole in the hole for us before back-filling.  If it's 
something you're doing just every now and again it might make more 
sense that way.


If you don't have your own bucket then you'll want to pre-drill for 
steps and hammer those in.  They're less than $2 each at 
linemen-tools.com.


On 9/29/2020 3:51 PM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:
I assume you get these poles from the utility company? Can you share 
how much?
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 2:07 PM Craig House 
 wrote:


60 foot utility poles go 8 feet in the ground in our area
resulting in a 52 foot above ground option and you can extend
that with the pipe to pipe clamp and some rigid conduit. They are
not cheap to get in the ground but I do have the equipment to do
it. The nice thing about them is you can put them in the right of
way with the proper permits. I would not recommend using them for
licensed back holes because they do move substantially at the top
in the wind and makes it very difficult to align them but for 5
GHz they work fine

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2020, at 13:39, Eric Muehleisen 
wrote:
>
> 
> What are some cheap and easy options you guys have used to get
remote subscribers connectivity? Many rural subscribers have
break over poles that can reach 20-25 ft. I'm looking for 40-50
ft options. Looking to mount Force 300-25 or 450b HG SM's.
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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium ePMP 1000

[Jaime Solorza]

The new radios solved the problem.  I have bad radio in truck so I can test
at home this weekend...no idea why it didn't allow DHCP requests to go
through but worked well with static IP enabled devices.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 11:46 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> No you're confusing two different things.
>
> 169.254.1.1/24 is on every device.
>
> 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2 was on the AP/SM respectively (in addition to
> 169.254.1.1).  This is the IP you replace when you configure the device.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 7:55 PM Rex-List Account 
> wrote:
>
>> If I remember correctly CPE was 169.254.1.1 and AP was 169.254.1.2
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 25, 2020 1:58 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium epmp 1000
>>
>>
>>
>> That IP worked on CPE but I didn't find the AP...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 12:03 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Actually if you can't access it and ping it, you're probably trying to
>> hit the master/AP side coming from the station side.  You can't do that
>> with the default security config.  You will have to access it on the master
>> side.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 2:01 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> The radio is accessible at 169.254.1.1/24 if it's a version past
>> like...2015...
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 1:41 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey ..I have an AP radio that I can ping across a PTP link from CPE but
>> not access via browser.
>>
>> It seems to be keeping DHCP from getting delivered
>>
>> I drove to other side and connected to it via switch...even made an IP
>> address change...I have Internet if I give my laptop a static IP address
>> but it does not receive DHCP 
>>
>> The RF link is solid... getting  10 by 7 mbps consistently..
>>
>> Cambium tool doesn't work...
>>
>> Tried https , nothing...any ideas?
>>
>> Is radio bad?
>>
>> Perplexed in El Paso..
>>
>> Links have been up 4 years.
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Virus-free. www.avg.com
>> 
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

[chuck]

Only if you climb barefoot.  (I climbed a stepped pole in tennis shoes once, 
wow did that hurt).

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 3:01 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

Is my man card permanently lost if I hammer in pole steps instead?  Or can I 
redeem myself somehow?


On 9/29/2020 4:58 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Hooks and a belt.  Come on, be a man!

  From: Adam Moffett 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 2:27 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer prem poles/masts

  You can also talk to electrical contractors.  I used to get 50ft poles (42ft 
AGL) set for about $1500.  He handled all the logistics of stocking and 
transporting poles.  We'd screw the SM on ahead of time with elevation pre-set. 
 For aligning azimuth the contractor would rotate the pole in the hole for us 
before back-filling.  If it's something you're doing just every now and again 
it might make more sense that way.


  If you don't have your own bucket then you'll want to pre-drill for steps and 
hammer those in.  They're less than $2 each at linemen-tools.com.



  On 9/29/2020 3:51 PM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:

I assume you get these poles from the utility company? Can you share how 
much? 


On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 2:07 PM Craig House  
wrote:

  60 foot utility poles go 8 feet in the ground in our area resulting in a 
52 foot above ground option and you can extend that with the pipe to pipe clamp 
and some rigid conduit. They are not cheap to get in the ground but I do have 
the equipment to do it. The nice thing about them is you can put them in the 
right of way with the proper permits. I would not recommend using them for 
licensed back holes because they do move substantially at the top in the wind 
and makes it very difficult to align them but for 5 GHz they work fine

  Sent from my iPhone

  > On Sep 29, 2020, at 13:39, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:
  > 
  > 
  > What are some cheap and easy options you guys have used to get remote 
subscribers connectivity? Many rural subscribers have break over poles that can 
reach 20-25 ft. I'm looking for 40-50 ft options. Looking to mount Force 300-25 
or 450b HG SM's.
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


 

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[AFMUG] OT metal detectors

[chuck]

Had a drill rod break today.  The guys did not know where the end was because 
the sonde went to sleep on them.  Had the local water guy go over with his 
metal detector and help them find it.  

I am going to ask him what kind he has.  Anyone here use them?  Any opinions?-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Charging for Training

[Lewis Bergman]

I have found that most companies that require this, also are accustomed to
paying you to do it. All of my large customers with safety programs
requirements pay for our labor and direct costs to meet their needs.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 3:27 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> Up to you.   If it’s insanely long we might charge them.   Hour or less I
> don’t care.   We do try to keep track of who the installer / service person
> who went through the training was so that we send the same person back to
> avoid the training issue.
>
> Mark
>
> > On Sep 29, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
> >
> > What's standard procedure when a large facility requires you to take
> training while on site before you can perform the install so that you know
> how to do it the way they want (for safety?).
> >
> > Is it normal to charge them for the time your tech is there for that
> training?
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT metal detectors

[Andrew Haninger]

>From watching detecting and treasure hunting videos on YouTube, Garrett is
pretty popular, but they are pricey for what I saw. For sure they have
entry level models, but I'm betting they don't do all of the fancy
discrimination and have removable coils and such.

Though it shouldn't have surprised me, I noticed the wands at the county
courthouse were by Garrett when I was there (doing my civic duty).

I suppose costs are different when it's a business expense vs curiosity in
the hobby.

Andy

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 17:51  wrote:

> Had a drill rod break today.  The guys did not know where the end was
> because the sonde went to sleep on them.  Had the local water guy go over
> with his metal detector and help them find it.
>
> I am going to ask him what kind he has.  Anyone here use them?  Any
> opinions?
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT metal detectors

[Bill Prince]

  
  
How deep was the end? My experience with metal detectors has been
  that they can't do more than a foot of soil. 



bp

On 9/29/2020 6:03 PM, Andrew Haninger
  wrote:


  
  From watching detecting and treasure hunting
videos on YouTube, Garrett is pretty popular, but they are
pricey for what I saw. For sure they have entry level models,
but I'm betting they don't do all of the fancy discrimination
and have removable coils and such.


Though it shouldn't have surprised me, I noticed
  the wands at the county courthouse were by Garrett when I was
  there (doing my civic duty).


I suppose costs are different when it's a
  business expense vs curiosity in the hobby.


Andy
  
  
  
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 17:51
  
  wrote:


  

  
Had a drill rod break today.  The guys did not know
  where the end was because the sonde went to sleep on
  them.  Had the local water guy go over with his metal
  detector and help them find it.  
 
I am going to ask him what kind he has.  Anyone
  here use them?  Any opinions?
  

  
  -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT metal detectors

[Chuck McCown]

About 3’. The water guy found it just fine.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> 
> How deep was the end? My experience with metal detectors has been that they 
> can't do more than a foot of soil. 
> 
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> On 9/29/2020 6:03 PM, Andrew Haninger wrote:
>> From watching detecting and treasure hunting videos on YouTube, Garrett is 
>> pretty popular, but they are pricey for what I saw. For sure they have entry 
>> level models, but I'm betting they don't do all of the fancy discrimination 
>> and have removable coils and such.
>> 
>> Though it shouldn't have surprised me, I noticed the wands at the county 
>> courthouse were by Garrett when I was there (doing my civic duty).
>> 
>> I suppose costs are different when it's a business expense vs curiosity in 
>> the hobby.
>> 
>> Andy
>> 
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 17:51  wrote:
>>> Had a drill rod break today.  The guys did not know where the end was 
>>> because the sonde went to sleep on them.  Had the local water guy go over 
>>> with his metal detector and help them find it. 
>>>  
>>> I am going to ask him what kind he has.  Anyone here use them?  Any 
>>> opinions?
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT metal detectors

[Ken Hohhof]

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/21/565746002/u-k-water-companies-sometimes-use-dowsing-rods-to-find-pipes

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 9:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT metal detectors

 

About 3’. The water guy found it just fine.

Sent from my iPhone





On Sep 29, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

How deep was the end? My experience with metal detectors has been that they 
can't do more than a foot of soil. 

 

bp


On 9/29/2020 6:03 PM, Andrew Haninger wrote:

>From watching detecting and treasure hunting videos on YouTube, Garrett is 
>pretty popular, but they are pricey for what I saw. For sure they have entry 
>level models, but I'm betting they don't do all of the fancy discrimination 
>and have removable coils and such. 

 

Though it shouldn't have surprised me, I noticed the wands at the county 
courthouse were by Garrett when I was there (doing my civic duty).

 

I suppose costs are different when it's a business expense vs curiosity in the 
hobby.

 

Andy

 

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 17:51 mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Had a drill rod break today.  The guys did not know where the end was because 
the sonde went to sleep on them.  Had the local water guy go over with his 
metal detector and help them find it.  

 

I am going to ask him what kind he has.  Anyone here use them?  Any opinions?

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] Charging for Training

[Steve Jones]

We deal with alot of MSHA for the quarries. 15 to 30 minute training, some
weird requirements. Manpower doesnt even eat through a couple months
service

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 6:40 PM Lewis Bergman  wrote:

> I have found that most companies that require this, also are accustomed to
> paying you to do it. All of my large customers with safety programs
> requirements pay for our labor and direct costs to meet their needs.
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 3:27 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>
>> Up to you.   If it’s insanely long we might charge them.   Hour or less I
>> don’t care.   We do try to keep track of who the installer / service person
>> who went through the training was so that we send the same person back to
>> avoid the training issue.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> > On Sep 29, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > What's standard procedure when a large facility requires you to take
>> training while on site before you can perform the install so that you know
>> how to do it the way they want (for safety?).
>> >
>> > Is it normal to charge them for the time your tech is there for that
>> training?
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT metal detectors

[Steve Jones]

Did he use metal rldtector or copper wire?

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 9:57 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> About 3’. The water guy found it just fine.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 29, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> 
>
> How deep was the end? My experience with metal detectors has been that
> they can't do more than a foot of soil.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 9/29/2020 6:03 PM, Andrew Haninger wrote:
>
> From watching detecting and treasure hunting videos on YouTube, Garrett is
> pretty popular, but they are pricey for what I saw. For sure they have
> entry level models, but I'm betting they don't do all of the fancy
> discrimination and have removable coils and such.
>
> Though it shouldn't have surprised me, I noticed the wands at the county
> courthouse were by Garrett when I was there (doing my civic duty).
>
> I suppose costs are different when it's a business expense vs curiosity in
> the hobby.
>
> Andy
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 17:51  wrote:
>
>> Had a drill rod break today.  The guys did not know where the end was
>> because the sonde went to sleep on them.  Had the local water guy go over
>> with his metal detector and help them find it.
>>
>> I am going to ask him what kind he has.  Anyone here use them?  Any
>> opinions?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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