[AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than Netflix

[Kurt Fankhauser]

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/474692-fbi-busts-illegal-streaming-site-with-more-content-than-netflix-amazon
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[AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

[Tim Cailloux]

Has anyone "sold" customers to AT&T?  They're providing wireless service on
top of a portion of my network, and the local municipality isn't
cooperating with installing any towers.  I can't really extend in to the
area, or rebuild with new equipment for better service.

I don't just want to turn these customers off if there's some value to
flipping them to AT&T.

tim
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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

[Mike Hammett]

Right, but you can get nearly the same functionality from so many other sources 
that aren't vendor locked and nickle-and-dime you. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 9:03:45 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router 




You can quit any time you want. The units will not stop working. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 7:56 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router 


I just can't imagine getting sucked further into the Calix hole. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "David Coudron"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 8:22:40 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router 



Thanks for the post Ken, 

We have quite a bit of interest in those. We have been looking at the Calix as 
well, but as discussed here earlier, we aren’t quite ready to jump into yet 
another piece of management/operations software. Maybe when we are larger as it 
seems like the Calix is a good solution, but for now we really like the idea of 
the Mikrotik as we have a pretty deep investment in Mikrotik already and can 
manage them with existing tools. We’d love to hear your thoughts on: 

* Any other software tools needed, or does Winbox and SNMP do the trick for 
managing and monitoring 
* Does the throughput measure up to others. We have tested Netgear Orbi and 
Amplifi. The Amplifi is impressive, but no remote management is a deal breaker 
* What happens to throughput if you string three of them together 
* Can you (we are assuming you can) extend the network using cabled 
backhaul as well as wireless 


Regards, 

David Coudron 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 7:23 PM 
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router 

I got 3 of them to play with. So far, so good. I have no complaints about the 
aesthetics, it’s a nice looking unit. It would look even nicer if it wasn’t so 
expensive. Still need to evaluate WiFi performance in a large house. They made 
the mesh backhaul 4x4 MIMO so apparently they want that to be really robust. 

There’s a website with photos of the insides: 
https://mikrotik-routeros.com/2019/10/mikrotik-audience-review-and-teardown/ 

I expected it to get hot or for hot air to be coming out of the top, but no 
signs of that at all. RB4011 gets quite warm, but it has the CPU clocked much 
faster, plus it has all those gigabit ports. 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess via AF 
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 12:43 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Cc: Dennis Burgess < dmburg...@linktechs.net > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router 

We have sold quite a few of them and currelty have stock on them. They are a 
tri-band radio system, so meshing is fairly easy plus no slowdown on the 
repeater nodes. 99% of them work quite well with one, if you need another just 
add it and it has an auto connect process as long as you don’t change too much. 



LTI-Full_175px
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP 
Certified 
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 
Office : 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net 
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 10:01 AM 
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router 

I totally missed the existence of this product and apparently the US version is 
actually shipping. 

Has anyone tried them out? Typical of mesh systems, it doesn’t have a full 
complement of Ethernet ports, but 2 is better than 1 like some of the mesh 
products out there. 

It’s less expensive than a 4011, but it’s pretty and has easy mesh setup. A 
4011 is currently my best Mikrotik family choice for whole home WiFi coverage 
in large homes, but it’s overkill for most customers, who typically don’t need 
anything close to 10 GigE ports, the 4011 also gets pretty hot, and it’s 
expensive. 

Rarely in customer homes can we run cables to additional routers and use 
CAPsMAN, and the Mikrotik powerline networking product has been disappointing. 
Am I missing something about the easy mesh setup? Is this something I could do 
with hAP ac or 4011 routers if I just learned how? The “Audience” product has 
two 5 GHz radios and apparently uses U-NII-1 for clients and the upper bands 
for backhaul bet

Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

[Lewis Bergman]

I don't think there is any way to do that other than to become a reseller
or find someone who is and sell them to them.

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 8:54 AM Tim Cailloux 
wrote:

> Has anyone "sold" customers to AT&T?  They're providing wireless service
> on top of a portion of my network, and the local municipality isn't
> cooperating with installing any towers.  I can't really extend in to the
> area, or rebuild with new equipment for better service.
>
> I don't just want to turn these customers off if there's some value to
> flipping them to AT&T.
>
> tim
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than Netflix

[chuck]

Never heard of ‘em.  Did they really think they were never gonna get busted...

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 7:21 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than Netflix

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/474692-fbi-busts-illegal-streaming-site-with-more-content-than-netflix-amazon
  




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Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

[chuck]

I don’t think the local municipality can block you from installing towers.  
Especially if you call it 5G service.  

From: Tim Cailloux 
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 7:53 AM
To: Animal Farm Mailing List 
Subject: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

Has anyone "sold" customers to AT&T?  They're providing wireless service on top 
of a portion of my network, and the local municipality isn't cooperating with 
installing any towers.  I can't really extend in to the area, or rebuild with 
new equipment for better service.


I don't just want to turn these customers off if there's some value to flipping 
them to AT&T.

tim




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Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

[Ken Hohhof]

You could maybe transfer them to another WISP but I don’t see how you “sell” 
them to AT&T.  If you really can’t be remotely competitive with AT&T’s 
offering, the best thing you can do is give sufficient advance notice to allow 
the customers to switch gracefully.

 

What keeps you from rebuilding with new equipment for better service?  If you 
could do that, maybe refocus on a segment of the local market that AT&T will 
not serve well.  I find that business customers often hate dealing with the big 
phone companies, who tend to offer a one-size-fits-all solution generally 
intended for residential.  If you are able to  offer reliable service, static 
IPs, onsite VoIP PBX, networking support, and work with their 
computer/networking guys, you may be able to hold on to your business customers 
or even grow in that segment.  Realizing they will probably have cellphones 
from one of the big carriers.  Not necessarily AT&T.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 9:13 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

 

I don't think there is any way to do that other than to become a reseller or 
find someone who is and sell them to them.

 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 8:54 AM Tim Cailloux mailto:t...@southern-internet.com> > wrote:

Has anyone "sold" customers to AT&T?  They're providing wireless service on top 
of a portion of my network, and the local municipality isn't cooperating with 
installing any towers.  I can't really extend in to the area, or rebuild with 
new equipment for better service.

 

I don't just want to turn these customers off if there's some value to flipping 
them to AT&T.

 

tim

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Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

[chuck]

Unless you become a commissioned sales agent for AT&T.

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 8:52 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

You could maybe transfer them to another WISP but I don’t see how you “sell” 
them to AT&T.  If you really can’t be remotely competitive with AT&T’s 
offering, the best thing you can do is give sufficient advance notice to allow 
the customers to switch gracefully.

 

What keeps you from rebuilding with new equipment for better service?  If you 
could do that, maybe refocus on a segment of the local market that AT&T will 
not serve well.  I find that business customers often hate dealing with the big 
phone companies, who tend to offer a one-size-fits-all solution generally 
intended for residential.  If you are able to  offer reliable service, static 
IPs, onsite VoIP PBX, networking support, and work with their 
computer/networking guys, you may be able to hold on to your business customers 
or even grow in that segment.  Realizing they will probably have cellphones 
from one of the big carriers.  Not necessarily AT&T.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 9:13 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

 

I don't think there is any way to do that other than to become a reseller or 
find someone who is and sell them to them.

 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 8:54 AM Tim Cailloux  wrote:

  Has anyone "sold" customers to AT&T?  They're providing wireless service on 
top of a portion of my network, and the local municipality isn't cooperating 
with installing any towers.  I can't really extend in to the area, or rebuild 
with new equipment for better service.

   

  I don't just want to turn these customers off if there's some value to 
flipping them to AT&T.

   

  tim

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Re: [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than Netflix

[Josh Luthman]

BayStream is starting up now.  PirateBay has been around since 2003.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:48 AM  wrote:

> Never heard of ‘em.  Did they really think they were never gonna get
> busted...
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 7:21 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than
> Netflix
>
>
> https://thehill.com/policy/technology/474692-fbi-busts-illegal-streaming-site-with-more-content-than-netflix-amazon
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than Netflix

[Mathew Howard]

A major difference here, is that it sounds like these guys were charging
money...

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:02 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> BayStream is starting up now.  PirateBay has been around since 2003.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:48 AM  wrote:
>
>> Never heard of ‘em.  Did they really think they were never gonna get
>> busted...
>>
>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 7:21 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than
>> Netflix
>>
>>
>> https://thehill.com/policy/technology/474692-fbi-busts-illegal-streaming-site-with-more-content-than-netflix-amazon
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/19/19 6:53 AM, Tim Cailloux wrote:
I don't just want to turn these customers off if there's some value to 
flipping them to AT&T.



You can become an AT&T reseller/agent.

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Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

[Ken Hohhof]

Or if this is their 5G fixed wireless product, maybe they are contracting out 
installation, but that sounds like one-time revenue with no residuals.

 

I haven’t really seen any big carrier fixed wireless product succeed without 
indoor modems.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 9:55 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

 

Unless you become a commissioned sales agent for AT&T.

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 8:52 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

 

You could maybe transfer them to another WISP but I don’t see how you “sell” 
them to AT&T.  If you really can’t be remotely competitive with AT&T’s 
offering, the best thing you can do is give sufficient advance notice to allow 
the customers to switch gracefully.

 

What keeps you from rebuilding with new equipment for better service?  If you 
could do that, maybe refocus on a segment of the local market that AT&T will 
not serve well.  I find that business customers often hate dealing with the big 
phone companies, who tend to offer a one-size-fits-all solution generally 
intended for residential.  If you are able to  offer reliable service, static 
IPs, onsite VoIP PBX, networking support, and work with their 
computer/networking guys, you may be able to hold on to your business customers 
or even grow in that segment.  Realizing they will probably have cellphones 
from one of the big carriers.  Not necessarily AT&T.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 9:13 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

 

I don't think there is any way to do that other than to become a reseller or 
find someone who is and sell them to them.

 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 8:54 AM Tim Cailloux mailto:t...@southern-internet.com> > wrote:

Has anyone "sold" customers to AT&T?  They're providing wireless service on top 
of a portion of my network, and the local municipality isn't cooperating with 
installing any towers.  I can't really extend in to the area, or rebuild with 
new equipment for better service.

 

I don't just want to turn these customers off if there's some value to flipping 
them to AT&T.

 

tim

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325-439-0533 Cell

  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] Something new..

[Jaime Solorza]

We are going to standardize on them now.

On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 8:11 PM  wrote:

> Nice, I keep forgetting those terminal blocks exist.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2019 4:33 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Something new..
>
> Zoom in terminal blocks with orange tabs below ProSoft module...quick
> disconnect using pull out tabs without having to remove wires for testing...
>
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[AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Adam Moffett]

https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/

I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and 
frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor 
power system.




but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W option.  
Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that 
every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not 
quite perfect?





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Re: [AFMUG] Something new..

[Adam Moffett]

part #?

On 12/19/2019 12:26 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

We are going to standardize on them now.

On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 8:11 PM > wrote:


Nice, I keep forgetting those terminal blocks exist.
*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2019 4:33 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Something new..
Zoom in terminal blocks with orange tabs below ProSoft
module...quick disconnect using pull out tabs without having to
remove wires for testing...


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Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones

[Chuck Hogg]

Nice, I was curious if any Common people would be on here.  Welcome to the
farm, where pigs fly.

Best Regards, Chuck Hogg   |  *SVP/Director of Acquisitions*
*ALL POINTS* *BROADBAND *| *Live Connected.*
mobile  502.435.6649



On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 6:11 PM Dan Spitler  wrote:

> Just to chime in here: Nearmap is doing yearly, higher-res
> photogrammetry captures of major (sub)urban areas across the US. You can
> purchase pre-rendered surface models from which you can do all sorts of fun
> things with.
> Also, Google's SAS program has a network planner included which allows you
> to get elevation profiles *with* clutter using the same data as seen on
> Google Earth. My only problem with it is it only does low-rez RF
> propagation (no simple viewesheds) and the data is of unknown vintage.
>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:19 PM Chuck Hogg 
> wrote:
>
>> Here's 2 examples of 2m vs 30m data as well for Google Earth.  If the
>> list serv strips them, let me know.
>>
>> Look at the shadows created by buildings and trees as far as coverage
>> goes in the 2M data.
>>
>> These are random locations in Louisville.  The City of Louisville
>> released their data for free.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 4:14 PM Chuck Hogg 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Also, check your states/counties/cities.  Some states have had
>>> initiatives to map this data.  The forestry fire service also maps this
>>> data.  There are also point clouds created with this data.  Ky for example
>>> has this data from 2013 to 2018.  The 2018 data is still being compiled.
>>> It's also free.  Virginia had whole portions of the state done in 2017.
>>>
>>> One good resource is:
>>> https://www.usgs.gov/core-science-systems/ngp/3dep
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 4:11 PM Chuck Hogg 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The LIDAR data processing for a 2M resolution of an OMNI on the
 platform I'm using takes about 45-75 seconds.  The same 30M resolution is
 typically a done in a second.  These are done using 10km radiuses
 currently, but I'm increasing it to 20km.  As you know this will cause it
 to be significantly heavier on the processing.  A geotiff file for one
 access point using 2M data at 10km radius is about 18MB.  The same GeoTIFF
 for 30M data is under 1MB.  30M is 900Meters squared.  2M is 4M squared.
 Roughly 225x more datapoints in 2M.

 Best Regards, Chuck Hogg   |  *SVP/Director of Acquisitions*
 *ALL POINTS* *BROADBAND *| *Live Connected.*
 mobile  502.435.6649



 On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 3:45 PM Brian Webster 
 wrote:

> I do not know the answer to that but I suspect that they are just
> using the images from multiple angles.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam
> Moffett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2019 3:23 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones
>
>
>
> Good question
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/18/2019 3:05 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> Does Google actually have LIDAR or are they just running the images
> that they collect from multiple angles through an algorithm to guess at 
> the
> obstructions?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Adam Moffett"  
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:53:10 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones
>
> Looks like no 3D building/trees in the profile.
>
> On 12/18/2019 1:57 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>
> Adam,
>
>
>
> If you draw a line between the AP and the address point and then right
> click to show elevation profile, does it look like it’s including the 3D
> building/tree as part of the profile or just terrain.
>
>
>
> We are lucky in NY that the state has mapped every 911 address to the
> rooftop and they make it available for download. Not everyone has data 
> that
> accurate. 911 address collection quality varies county by county. Not 
> every
> county has put it in the public domain fo

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Steve Jones]

talk to matt at CTI

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/
>
> I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and
> frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor
> power system.
>
> 
>
> but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W option.
> Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that
> every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not
> quite perfect?
>
> 
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Adam Moffett]

Is there a particular item I should ask him about?

On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

talk to matt at CTI

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/

I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and
frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor
power system.



but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W
option.
Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that
every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not
quite perfect?




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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Steve Jones]

hes building out UPS in a box

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Is there a particular item I should ask him about?
> On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> talk to matt at CTI
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/
>>
>> I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and
>> frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor
>> power system.
>>
>> 
>>
>> but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W option.
>> Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that
>> every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not
>> quite perfect?
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Ken Hohhof]

You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?

 

Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not bad, but 
if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to give you much 
runtime without adding more batteries.

 

We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which looks 
physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them at small sites 
because it’s not enough batteries for a large site.  Normally we would put a 
Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with our 
other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a separate 
battery box.  Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure, if we don’t 
need a lot of runtime.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

 

hes building out UPS in a box

 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Is there a particular item I should ask him about?

On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

talk to matt at CTI

 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/

I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and 
frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor 
power system.



but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W option.  
Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that 
every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not 
quite perfect?




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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Adam Moffett]

I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.

I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC input, 
has SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I don't actually 
expect to use every port, but in theory you could  load that up to over 
300W, and if I make sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more 
idiot proof when people come along and add stuff.


Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power 
supplies for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp only 
down to 0c.  By the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it doesn't 
look too attractive anymore.


I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would just be 
hard to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN components in 
a box.  There's also something to be said for the simplicity of one part 
on the BOM.


Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the 
10Gig uplink.


I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload 
condition...maybe the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his 
mistake very quickly.


-Adam



On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?

Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not 
bad, but if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to 
give you much runtime without adding more batteries.


We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which 
looks physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them at 
small sites because it’s not enough batteries for a large site.  
Normally we would put a Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 
in the same enclosure with our other DIN rail equipment and maybe a 
bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a separate battery box.  Or maybe 4 x 22 
Ah batteries in the same enclosure, if we don’t need a lot of runtime.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

hes building out UPS in a box

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Is there a particular item I should ask him about?

On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

talk to matt at CTI

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/

I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700
retail and
frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done
48V outdoor
power system.



but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or
600W option.
Why does it seem like every product I want is a white
whale and that
every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way
there, but not
quite perfect?




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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Ken Hohhof]

I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts above 54 VDC.

 

If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you want an upper 
limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

 

I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.

I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC input, has 
SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I don't actually expect to use 
every port, but in theory you could  load that up to over 300W, and if I make 
sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more idiot proof when people come 
along and add stuff.

Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power supplies 
for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp only down to 0c.  By 
the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it doesn't look too attractive 
anymore.

I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would just be hard 
to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN components in a box.  
There's also something to be said for the simplicity of one part on the BOM.

Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the 10Gig 
uplink.

I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload condition...maybe 
the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his mistake very quickly.

-Adam

 

 

On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?

 

Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not bad, but 
if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to give you much 
runtime without adding more batteries.

 

We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which looks 
physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them at small sites 
because it’s not enough batteries for a large site.  Normally we would put a 
Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with our 
other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a separate 
battery box.  Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure, if we don’t 
need a lot of runtime.

 

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

 

hes building out UPS in a box

 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Is there a particular item I should ask him about?

On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

talk to matt at CTI

 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/

I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and 
frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor 
power system.



but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W option.  
Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that 
every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not 
quite perfect?




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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Adam Moffett]

Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them.

On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts above 
54 VDC.


If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you want 
an upper limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.

I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC 
input, has SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I don't 
actually expect to use every port, but in theory you could  load that 
up to over 300W, and if I make sure to size the UPS for the switch 
then it's more idiot proof when people come along and add stuff.


Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power 
supplies for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp 
only down to 0c.  By the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it 
doesn't look too attractive anymore.


I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would just 
be hard to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN 
components in a box.  There's also something to be said for the 
simplicity of one part on the BOM.


Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the 
10Gig uplink.


I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload 
condition...maybe the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his 
mistake very quickly.


-Adam

On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?

Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries,
not bad, but if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not
going to give you much runtime without adding more batteries.

We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which
looks physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them
at small sites because it’s not enough batteries for a large
site.  Normally we would put a Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or
TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with our other DIN rail equipment
and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a separate battery box. 
Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure, if we don’t
need a lot of runtime.

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

hes building out UPS in a box

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Is there a particular item I should ask him about?

On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

talk to matt at CTI

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:


https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/

I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're
$650-700 retail and
frankly, that's really not a bad price for a
one-and-done 48V outdoor
power system.



but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W
or 600W option.
Why does it seem like every product I want is a white
whale and that
every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way
there, but not
quite perfect?




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Re: [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than Netflix

[Layne Sisk]

And based in Las Vegas, most of the other ones are at least off shore.

Layne Sisk
ServerPlus
801.426.8283, ext 102
[New logo xl]
[http://i.imgur.com/VOz763A.png]
[http://i.imgur.com/xvQYYWa.png]
[http://i.imgur.com/ELG0AB1.png]
[Utah 100]   [fast50-01] [Inc 5000]

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 9:12 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than Netflix

A major difference here, is that it sounds like these guys were charging 
money...

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:02 AM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
BayStream is starting up now.  PirateBay has been around since 2003.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:48 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Never heard of ‘em.  Did they really think they were never gonna get busted...

From: Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 7:21 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than Netflix

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/474692-fbi-busts-illegal-streaming-site-with-more-content-than-netflix-amazon

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[AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[Matt Hoppes]

For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using to get 
commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross connect to one 
location?

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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[chuck]

Not totally sure I understand the question.  My transport fiber ends in a 
dwdm passive mux.  The data center will cross connect me to anyone there 
including the IX.


-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:43 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using to 
get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross connect 
to one location?


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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using to get 
commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross connect to one 
location?



Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.

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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[Matt Hoppes]

Do you have multiple frequencies on your transport fiber then?  And you use on 
for IX and one for commodity internet?

> On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:54 PM,   wrote:
> 
> Not totally sure I understand the question.  My transport fiber ends in a 
> dwdm passive mux.  The data center will cross connect me to anyone there 
> including the IX.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:43 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet
> 
> For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using to 
> get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross connect to 
> one location?
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[Matt Hoppes]

How do you do that cost effectively though?

$1,300 for a half rack minimum!

> On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> 
>> On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using to 
>> get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross connect 
>> to one location?
> 
> 
> Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[TJ Trout]

Hurricane can trunk transit and ix if you go to Fremont. Otherwise find
someone who has a full cabinet that Leases by the rack unit and they should
be able to lease you switch ports on a monthly basis

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 2:58 PM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> How do you do that cost effectively though?
>
> $1,300 for a half rack minimum!
>
> > On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >> For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using
> to get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross
> connect to one location?
> >
> >
> > Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.
> >
> > --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[TJ Trout]

It wouldn't be multiple frequencies it would be multiple vlans unless you
had dark fiber which is pretty unlikely then you could use a mux and use
different colored optics but that wouldn't be a very good solution for this
issue

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 2:58 PM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> Do you have multiple frequencies on your transport fiber then?  And you
> use on for IX and one for commodity internet?
>
> > On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:54 PM,   wrote:
> >
> > Not totally sure I understand the question.  My transport fiber ends in
> a dwdm passive mux.  The data center will cross connect me to anyone there
> including the IX.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:43 PM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet
> >
> > For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using
> to get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross
> connect to one location?
> >
> > --
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> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[chuck]

Yes, we can plug in many 10G sfps for whatever we need.

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

Do you have multiple frequencies on your transport fiber then?  And you use 
on for IX and one for commodity internet?



On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:54 PM,   wrote:

Not totally sure I understand the question.  My transport fiber ends in a 
dwdm passive mux.  The data center will cross connect me to anyone there 
including the IX.


-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:43 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using to 
get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross connect 
to one location?


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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[chuck]

I think we pay less than half that.

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

How do you do that cost effectively though?

$1,300 for a half rack minimum!


On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:


On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using 
to get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross 
connect to one location?



Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.

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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[TJ Trout]

Whatever you do don't use lead acid lithium batteries of varying
chemistry's are available second-hand extremely lightly-used for the exact
same price per watt hour and they will last long enough to put them in your
will

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:50 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them.
> On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts above 54
> VDC.
>
>
>
> If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you want an
> upper limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>
>
>
> I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.
>
> I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC input,
> has SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I don't actually expect
> to use every port, but in theory you could  load that up to over 300W, and
> if I make sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more idiot proof
> when people come along and add stuff.
>
> Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power
> supplies for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp only
> down to 0c.  By the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it doesn't look
> too attractive anymore.
>
> I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would just be
> hard to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN components in a
> box.  There's also something to be said for the simplicity of one part on
> the BOM.
>
> Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the
> 10Gig uplink.
>
> I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload
> condition...maybe the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his mistake
> very quickly.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?
>
>
>
> Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not bad,
> but if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to give you
> much runtime without adding more batteries.
>
>
>
> We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which looks
> physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them at small sites
> because it’s not enough batteries for a large site.  Normally we would put
> a Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with
> our other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a
> separate battery box.  Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure,
> if we don’t need a lot of runtime.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>
>
>
> hes building out UPS in a box
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Is there a particular item I should ask him about?
>
> On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> talk to matt at CTI
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/
>
> I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and
> frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor
> power system.
>
> 
>
> but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W option.
> Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that
> every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not
> quite perfect?
>
> 
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[TJ Trout]

A question I would have for the group is if you are picking up Transit from
someone like hurricane electric do the benefits of paying for an ix port
really do anything for you when hurricane is cured with everybody on the
exchange anyway and you're paired with hurricane? I'm guessing the only
advantage here is eliminating 1 hop through the hurricane router and
potential port oversaturation??

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 3:07 PM  wrote:

> I think we pay less than half that.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:58 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet
>
> How do you do that cost effectively though?
>
> $1,300 for a half rack minimum!
>
> > On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >> For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using
> >> to get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross
> >> connect to one location?
> >
> >
> > Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.
> >
> > --
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> > AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[TJ Trout]

Peered*

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 3:08 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> A question I would have for the group is if you are picking up Transit
> from someone like hurricane electric do the benefits of paying for an ix
> port really do anything for you when hurricane is cured with everybody on
> the exchange anyway and you're paired with hurricane? I'm guessing the only
> advantage here is eliminating 1 hop through the hurricane router and
> potential port oversaturation??
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 3:07 PM  wrote:
>
>> I think we pay less than half that.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:58 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet
>>
>> How do you do that cost effectively though?
>>
>> $1,300 for a half rack minimum!
>>
>> > On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >> For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you
>> using
>> >> to get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross
>> >> connect to one location?
>> >
>> >
>> > Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[Darin Steffl]

Colo a switch or router there using someone's extra space. In Minneapolis,
I found a small business with two full racks and he leases out 1ru for our
Mikrotik for $100 per month and hosts a remote extension switch for MICE IX
for free. So I just pay him for that and cross connects.

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 7:07 PM  wrote:

> I think we pay less than half that.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:58 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet
>
> How do you do that cost effectively though?
>
> $1,300 for a half rack minimum!
>
> > On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >> For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using
> >> to get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross
> >> connect to one location?
> >
> >
> > Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[chuck]

An astonishingly good idea!

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

Colo a switch or router there using someone's extra space. In Minneapolis, I 
found a small business with two full racks and he leases out 1ru for our 
Mikrotik for $100 per month and hosts a remote extension switch for MICE IX for 
free. So I just pay him for that and cross connects. 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 7:07 PM  wrote:

  I think we pay less than half that.

  -Original Message- 
  From: Matt Hoppes
  Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:58 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

  How do you do that cost effectively though?

  $1,300 for a half rack minimum!

  > On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
  >
  >> On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  >> For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using 
  >> to get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross 
  >> connect to one location?
  >
  >
  > Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.
  >
  > -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[Matt Hoppes]

Well this is exactly what I’m trying to figure out myself. Every days EXCHANGE 
EXCHANGE!!!

But if your provider is already in the exchange..

> On Dec 19, 2019, at 8:08 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
> 
> A question I would have for the group is if you are picking up Transit from 
> someone like hurricane electric do the benefits of paying for an ix port 
> really do anything for you when hurricane is cured with everybody on the 
> exchange anyway and you're paired with hurricane? I'm guessing the only 
> advantage here is eliminating 1 hop through the hurricane router and 
> potential port oversaturation??
> 
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 3:07 PM  wrote:
>> I think we pay less than half that.
>> 
>> -Original Message- 
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:58 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet
>> 
>> How do you do that cost effectively though?
>> 
>> $1,300 for a half rack minimum!
>> 
>> > On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >> For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using 
>> >> to get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross 
>> >> connect to one location?
>> >
>> >
>> > Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Matt,

We  were able to get 2U of space in a shared rack at our colo.  Got it
from  the  people  that  own  the  colo.   I also get 2gb of "blended"
internet  from them.  Got an IBM 8124 off ebay for a few bucks.  Now I
have 24 x 10GB slots I can use up there.  Only using 4 of them, but have
room to expand.

Took some shopping around, but I found it.


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 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com

--

Thursday, December 19, 2019, 7:58:07 PM, you wrote:

MH> How do you do that cost effectively though?

MH> $1,300 for a half rack minimum!

>> On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using to 
>>> get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross connect 
>>> to one location?
>> 
>> 
>> Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[Matt Hoppes]

And you’re comfortable with that?  I don’t know how I feel about renting “empty 
space”. 

> On Dec 19, 2019, at 8:13 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  
> wrote:
> 
> Matt,
> 
> We  were able to get 2U of space in a shared rack at our colo.  Got it
> from  the  people  that  own  the  colo.   I also get 2gb of "blended"
> internet  from them.  Got an IBM 8124 off ebay for a few bucks.  Now I
> have 24 x 10GB slots I can use up there.  Only using 4 of them, but have
> room to expand.
> 
> Took some shopping around, but I found it.
> 
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
> 
> --
> 
> Thursday, December 19, 2019, 7:58:07 PM, you wrote:
> 
> MH> How do you do that cost effectively though?
> 
> MH> $1,300 for a half rack minimum!
> 
 On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
 
 On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using to 
 get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross connect 
 to one location?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[chuck]

Well you rent it from the data center or you sublease it from someone that 
is renting from the data center.  Not sure I see the difference.


-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

And you’re comfortable with that?  I don’t know how I feel about renting 
“empty space”.


On Dec 19, 2019, at 8:13 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  
wrote:


Matt,

We  were able to get 2U of space in a shared rack at our colo.  Got it
from  the  people  that  own  the  colo.   I also get 2gb of "blended"
internet  from them.  Got an IBM 8124 off ebay for a few bucks.  Now I
have 24 x 10GB slots I can use up there.  Only using 4 of them, but have
room to expand.

Took some shopping around, but I found it.


--
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Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com

--

Thursday, December 19, 2019, 7:58:07 PM, you wrote:

MH> How do you do that cost effectively though?

MH> $1,300 for a half rack minimum!


On Dec 19, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

On 12/19/19 4:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using 
to get commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross 
connect to one location?



Colo a switch for multiple cross connects.

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Re: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

[Sterling Jacobson]

I am going to use two DIA 10Gbps circuits for this.

Both connect to the IX, I need two physical connections and more than one 
10Gbps feed for redundancy and traffic usage.

I use over 5Gbps now, and I don't really trust one of my transits to go the 
full 10Gbps full time (thought that's what I'm buying, but they do it on a 
switch MPLS "Parade Route").

So I'm splitting the traffic, don't really care how it ends up routing but I'll 
take full tables from both on two separate routers, again for redundancy and 
some amount of traffic shaping at the border.

I'm curious to see what happens when I actually get this going full tables.
It's possible I'll mess up some BGP filter and run a BGP loop through the IX, 
lol!

Just kidding, I do know enough to prevent that between myself on BGP.

Both my transit providers have rack space to rent, so I could just have 
installed a router or switch and two cross connects (and VLAN it or whatever).
But what  makes sense to me in my configuration is install a BGP full tables 
border device at each rack and maybe cross connect them there?

Going back to switch aggregation, that's super cheap now days.
You can get a used Cisco 48 port SFP+ switch with four QSFP ports for like $400 
shipped from ePrey.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 5:44 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] IX and Commodity Internet

For those of you picking up services at an IX, why method are you using to get 
commodity internet since your transport circuit can only cross connect to one 
location?

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Re: [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than Netflix

[Steve Jones]

Yeah, that seems pretty crazy, like stabbing somebody in a police station.
Did they think they wouldn't get nabbed?

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 4:50 PM Layne Sisk  wrote:

> And based in Las Vegas, most of the other ones are at least off shore.
>
>
>
> Layne Sisk
>
> ServerPlus
>
> 801.426.8283, ext 102
>
> [image: New logo xl] 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> [image: Utah 100]   [image: fast50-01][image: Inc 5000]
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 9:12 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than
> Netflix
>
>
>
> A major difference here, is that it sounds like these guys were charging
> money...
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:02 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> BayStream is starting up now.  PirateBay has been around since 2003.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:48 AM  wrote:
>
> Never heard of ‘em.  Did they really think they were never gonna get
> busted...
>
>
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 7:21 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] FBI busts two illegal streaming sites bigger than
> Netflix
>
>
>
>
> https://thehill.com/policy/technology/474692-fbi-busts-illegal-streaming-site-with-more-content-than-netflix-amazon
>
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Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers

[Steve Jones]

If you're an ATT reseller installer does that mean we have to splice cat5
too?

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:25 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Or if this is their 5G fixed wireless product, maybe they are contracting
> out installation, but that sounds like one-time revenue with no residuals.
>
>
>
> I haven’t really seen any big carrier fixed wireless product succeed
> without indoor modems.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 9:55 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers
>
>
>
> Unless you become a commissioned sales agent for AT&T.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 8:52 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers
>
>
>
> You could maybe transfer them to another WISP but I don’t see how you
> “sell” them to AT&T.  If you really can’t be remotely competitive with
> AT&T’s offering, the best thing you can do is give sufficient advance
> notice to allow the customers to switch gracefully.
>
>
>
> What keeps you from rebuilding with new equipment for better service?  If
> you could do that, maybe refocus on a segment of the local market that AT&T
> will not serve well.  I find that business customers often hate dealing
> with the big phone companies, who tend to offer a one-size-fits-all
> solution generally intended for residential.  If you are able to  offer
> reliable service, static IPs, onsite VoIP PBX, networking support, and work
> with their computer/networking guys, you may be able to hold on to your
> business customers or even grow in that segment.  Realizing they will
> probably have cellphones from one of the big carriers.  Not necessarily
> AT&T.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 9:13 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Selling Off" Existing Customers
>
>
>
> I don't think there is any way to do that other than to become a reseller
> or find someone who is and sell them to them.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 8:54 AM Tim Cailloux 
> wrote:
>
> Has anyone "sold" customers to AT&T?  They're providing wireless service
> on top of a portion of my network, and the local municipality isn't
> cooperating with installing any towers.  I can't really extend in to the
> area, or rebuild with new equipment for better service.
>
>
>
> I don't just want to turn these customers off if there's some value to
> flipping them to AT&T.
>
>
>
> tim
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> --
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Something new..

[Jaime Solorza]

Sorry ...was super busy ..
https://www.digikey.com/short/p1dv78

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 11:37 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> part #?
> On 12/19/2019 12:26 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> We are going to standardize on them now.
>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 8:11 PM  wrote:
>
>> Nice, I keep forgetting those terminal blocks exist.
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2019 4:33 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Something new..
>>
>> Zoom in terminal blocks with orange tabs below ProSoft module...quick
>> disconnect using pull out tabs without having to remove wires for testing...
>>
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

[Ken Hohhof]

Well, it turns out to be difficult doing a comparison of WiFi performance.

 

I’ve been trying to compare the Mikrotik Audience as a standalone router, vs my 
Technicolor CGA4324 cable modem.  The cable modem is in the basement, and I put 
the Audience right next to it.  My house is kind of complicated, with 2 floors 
and a finished attic, and a 1998 addition to the original 1914 house.

 

So far, it seems that 2.4 GHz performance is about the same, but 5 GHz signals 
are as much as 5-10 dB lower than the cable modem.  The backhaul channel 
however seems about the same as  the cable modem.

 

I’m guessing this is because the Audience default is to use U-NII-1 for 5 GHz 
clients and U-NII-3 for backhaul.  That may make sense when used as a mesh 
system.  But if you were really going to use Audience as a standalone router 
with no satellite mesh units, I suspect you’d want to reconfigure so that 
U-NII-3 is used for clients.  I’m thinking that both router and client antennas 
may be less efficient at the lower frequency.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 8:59 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

 

Right, but you can get nearly the same functionality from so many other sources 
that aren't vendor locked and nickle-and-dime you.

 



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: ch...@wbmfg.com  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 9:03:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

You can quit any time you want.  The units will not stop working.  

 

From: Mike Hammett 

Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 7:56 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

 

I just can't imagine getting sucked further into the Calix hole.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "David Coudron" mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 8:22:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

Thanks for the post Ken,

 

We have quite a bit of interest in those.   We have been looking at the Calix 
as well, but as discussed here earlier, we aren’t quite ready to jump into yet 
another piece of management/operations software.   Maybe when we are larger as 
it seems like the Calix is a good solution, but for now we really like the idea 
of the Mikrotik as we have a pretty deep investment in Mikrotik already and can 
manage them with existing tools.   We’d love to hear your thoughts on:

*   Any other software tools needed, or does Winbox and SNMP do the trick 
for managing and monitoring 
*   Does the throughput measure up to others.   We have tested Netgear Orbi 
and Amplifi.   The Amplifi is impressive, but no remote management is a deal 
breaker 
*   What happens to throughput if you string three of them together 
*   Can you (we are assuming you can) extend the network using cabled 
backhaul as well as wireless

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 7:23 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

 

I got 3 of them to play with.  So far, so good.  I have no complaints about the 
aesthetics, it’s a nice looking unit.  It would look even nicer if it wasn’t so 
expensive.  Still need to evaluate WiFi performance in a large house.  They 
made the mesh backhaul 4x4 MIMO so apparently they want that to be really 
robust.

 

There’s a website with photos of the insides:

https://mikrotik-routeros.com/2019/10/mi