On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 6:33 PM, PHPirate <hollandpira...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ho, I had not seen that you had posted on ask.sagemath.org! I don't have > time to try right now, but I will later - I think it really helps a lot! > > Re the question of IDE/editor: You're right I messed my wording up a bit, > sorry. But I purposefully specified 'IDE' in the initial question, but when > I found out that probably was not going to work (as I then thought) I put my > hopes on making an editor able to execute Sage from within the editor - so > make it a tiny bit integrated but not really. Thanks for writing it down > clearly! > I find it very interesting to hear that you do not think PyCharm useful for > writing in Python - but I use PyCharm nearly every day just as quite a lot > of people, hence it would be very convenient if I could write sage in > PyCharm - even without syntax highlighting or autocomplete.
To be clear--I did not not say it's "not useful". I just personally don't find IDEs that useful for Python. If it's useful to you then by all means! And it would be nice if it worked better for Sage too. > On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 12:28:52 PM UTC+1, Erik Bray wrote: >> >> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 7:30 AM, PHPirate <holland...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Thanks for the replies, so I would be very interested to run vim or >> > emacs on >> > Windows (although I have never heard of any windows user doing so) but >> > since >> > you both run a different OS you may not know how to set this up on >> > Windows? >> > I'll try in any case later on, I think I should open a separate topic >> > for >> > that I guess? >> > >> > For now, I found some tips at https://wiki.sagemath.org/Tips about usage >> > with vim, and a couple of vim plugins like >> > https://github.com/petRUShka/vim-sage but no complete installation >> > guide. Is >> > there one? If not, if I manage to get it work I will write one myself >> > then. >> > I really hope I will manage to run Sage scripts from within vim, as the >> > wiki >> > hints is possible! >> > >> > In any case, conclusion for this topic: don't use PyCharm, try vim (or >> > if >> > you want, emacs or atom or whatever) instead. >> > >> > Let me quote Martin Vahi... >> > "As a side note I say that I've noticed that software developers, me >> > myself >> > included, are usually not as good at math as they _should_ and pure >> > mathematicians tend to be at software development not as good as they >> > could. >> > That seems to explain a lot of things in this world. :-D" >> >> I should maybe help clarify for you--if all you care about is >> *editing* files you don't need a full IDE, you just need an editor. >> All an editor does is edit files (though most advanced editors can do >> much more, with the proper extensions, such as run code or arbitrary >> shell commands). An IDE contains an editor as a central component, >> but it also has other development tools built into it like a compiler >> front-end, front-ends for build tools, debuggers, etc. (hence >> "integrated") rather than running an editor and those other tools as >> separate components. >> >> I wouldn't say one way of working is better or worse than another--it >> depends in part on personal preferences and how you think, as well as >> the type of project. I'd be surprised if any Sage developer uses a >> full IDE for anything except maybe if they happen to like their IDE's >> editor. This is in part because Sage has so many idiosyncrasies that >> a traditional IDE probably won't work too well with it without >> significant tweaking as you've found with trying to use it with >> PyCharm. >> >> I've personally never used an IDE for Python at all and I don't find >> it that useful, but do use an IDE (Eclipse) when working on Java, and >> Visual Studio when working on Windows-specific projects. >> >> If you like PyCharm for its editor you can certainly get it working (I >> provided instructions on the ask.sage question) to run code as well. >> It should be straightforward to set up PyCharm to parse .sage scripts >> through the sage-parser before running them with the plain Python >> interpreter too. But you might also be just as well off finding a >> stand-alone editor that you like. >> >> > On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 10:25:14 PM UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 8:20:18 PM UTC, David Roe wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 8:55 AM, PHPirate <holland...@gmail.com> >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks, that sounds a bit too difficult for me though so I'll just >> >>>> stick >> >>>> to writing in PyCharm and try to execute my Sage files via the Sage >> >>>> shell. >> >>>> >> >>>> But out of curiosity, am I the only one wanting to write scripts in >> >>>> Sage? Or are there other people using editors in the same way? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I think many people write scripts for Sage, though much of that >> >>> development isn't happening on Windows. Personally, I use emacs on OS >> >>> X. >> >> >> >> >> >> I use vim on Linux (as well as, if needed, on OSX and on FreeBSD). >> >> Surely >> >> it does syntax highlighting for Python/Cython >> >> and with a small effort for Sage (as it's basically Python, >> >> language-wise) >> >> too... >> >> >> >> I know people using atom for the same purpose (and yes, emacs for >> >> sure). >> >> >> >> Vim and emacs run, natively, on Windows. IMHO Notepad is the last >> >> resort... >> >> >> >>> >> >>> David >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 5:42:50 PM UTC+1, Erik Bray wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 5:37 PM, PHPirate <holland...@gmail.com> >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> > Hm, it is at least worth a try (just saw your message on GH) Okay >> >>>>> > I >> >>>>> > can >> >>>>> > understand if Sage has no syntax highlighting in any IDE on >> >>>>> > Windows, >> >>>>> > but as >> >>>>> > the situation is now for me, is that there is no IDE in which you >> >>>>> > can >> >>>>> > type >> >>>>> > Sage and then hit 'run' and then get Sage output. Now I think I >> >>>>> > could >> >>>>> > write >> >>>>> > Sage in Notepad and then execute a Sage file via the Sage shell >> >>>>> > but >> >>>>> > I'm >> >>>>> > looking to shortcut that a bit (my expectations are quite lower >> >>>>> > now I >> >>>>> > know >> >>>>> > that Sage doesn't have a standard editor which everyone uses). >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > But is it a bad idea to write Sage scripts? Did I misunderstand >> >>>>> > something, >> >>>>> > and should I use the console only? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> It's not at all a bad idea; it's just that if you want correct >> >>>>> syntax >> >>>>> highlighting for it you'll have to use an editor for which there is >> >>>>> syntax highlighting support for Sage, or add it yourself to your >> >>>>> editor of choice. Certainly there's no reason to use notepad >> >>>>> regardless. It's just that different editors have different means >> >>>>> of >> >>>>> providing syntax highlighting for new languages (where Sage's syntax >> >>>>> is just a small superset over pure Python syntax). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> More importantly, the default Python interpreter also isn't going to >> >>>>> know how to execute a Sage script, though it seems that in PyCharm >> >>>>> it's probably possible to configure the necessary options to >> >>>>> pre-load >> >>>>> the Sage syntax parser and then pass it a .sage script, but I >> >>>>> haven't >> >>>>> tried it yet. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 2:06:09 PM UTC+1, Erik Bray wrote: >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> That sounds a bit bogus to me. I've never used PyCharm before >> >>>>> >> and >> >>>>> >> don't >> >>>>> >> know how it works, but I suspect it could be made to work with >> >>>>> >> Cygwin's >> >>>>> >> Python. It's pretty low-priority for me though. I don't see how >> >>>>> >> using >> >>>>> >> PyCharm to edit sage source code would be useful--it won't even >> >>>>> >> do >> >>>>> >> syntax >> >>>>> >> highlighting properly, unless I'm missing something. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 2:01:08 PM UTC+1, Dima >> >>>>> >> Pasechnik >> >>>>> >> wrote: >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> I've already expalined here >> >>>>> >>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage-windows/issues/12 that PyCharm >> >>>>> >>> doesn't >> >>>>> >>> support Cygwin Python, >> >>>>> >>> and thus it's not going to be trivial to fix. The reason that we >> >>>>> >>> must use >> >>>>> >>> Cygwin Python is that a number of essential Sage components >> >>>>> >>> (i.e. >> >>>>> >>> Python >> >>>>> >>> extensions you need) e.g. GAP, won't work natively on Windows, >> >>>>> >>> as >> >>>>> >>> they use >> >>>>> >>> fork() and other Unix/Posix specific system functions. >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 12:19:56 PM UTC, PHPirate >> >>>>> >>> wrote: >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> Thanks, it sounds reasonable. But do you mean the Jupyter >> >>>>> >>>> notebook >> >>>>> >>>> included with Sage, which you can start with >> >>>>> >>>> sage --notebook ipython >> >>>>> >>>> from the Sage shell? I do not like notebooks such as this one >> >>>>> >>>> and >> >>>>> >>>> Mathematica because they do not go well with a VCS. Is it then >> >>>>> >>>> possible to >> >>>>> >>>> use this Jupyter to edit and run Sage files saved in a better >> >>>>> >>>> way, >> >>>>> >>>> like >> >>>>> >>>> python files? >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > -- >> >>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>>>> > Groups >> >>>>> > "sage-devel" group. >> >>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >>>>> > send an >> >>>>> > email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> >>>>> > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com. >> >>>>> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. >> >>>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>>> Groups "sage-devel" group. >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >>>> send >> >>>> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> >>>> To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com. >> >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. >> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >>> >> >>> >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "sage-devel" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > an >> > email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com. >> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. 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