Thanks for the additional comments -- very helpful. I did unsubscribe
from trac but then resubscribed to (quite a lot of) specific
components. This will be much more useful. (I resisted the
temptation to subscribe to trac-PLEASE CHANGE but can see that this
list of streams (or whatever tey are called) was generated
automatically!
As a forum for a group working on a specific area, such as your
p-adics group, I can see that this will be very helpful. I had been
meaning to suggest -- quite apart from the introduction of zulip --
that you (David Roe) posted a brief report on sage-devel describing
the virtual meetings you have had, how they worked (plusses and
minusses), as other groups might find that format worth following.
John
On 9 August 2017 at 06:41, David Roe <roed...@gmail.com <javascript:>>
wrote:
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 4:02 AM, John Cremona <john.c...@gmail.com
<javascript:>> wrote:
Is it the intention that all Sage developers should use this new
system instead of the google group emails which we have used for many
years? Or as well? Has this been discussed anywhere, for example on
this list?
It was never my intention for Zulip to replace this list. I see it
rather
as complementary (and optional!). In particular, I think it's
reasonable to
see how our usage of it evolves rather than prescribe a particular
division.
I think Zulip can be useful when you want to get some quick feedback but
don't think most people will care, since it's opt-in for whether people
are
paying attention there. I think it's also nice as a way to generate
energy
for working on things, since it feels more interactive than either trac
or
e-mail.
I don't think controversial decisions should be made on Zulip:
discussions
where people might be upset that they missed them are better handled on
this
list.
It is already hard to keep track of the email threads. I have looked
at the Zopa streams and find that after a short time there are dozens
if not hundreds of new things in the trac stream. Somewhere buried
in all that there might be some things of interest to me, but I don't
want to scan hundreds of messages every day just in case.
You can unsubscribe from the trac stream and instead subscribe to
"trac-elliptic curves", "trac-number fields", "trac-number theory" and
maybe
a few others. Then the volume is much more managable.
I already
get an email from trac when a ticket that I care about gets updated,
so why would I want this as well?
I see a few reasons. First, because you can see activity on a broader
range
of tickets, you can discover tickets that might be of interest to you
(that
you aren't CCed on for example). Second, it's opt-in in terms of
attention.
I try to pay attention when I get an e-mail, so I wouldn't want trac
e-mails
on every ticket I might be interested in paying attention to at some
point.
But if I have some time to look at other things (and review them
perhaps),
then I can go look at the stream on Zulip and see what's new.
I can see that this would work well for something like the online
collaborations you mention, but for everyday work I cannot see how it
is intended to be used.
It may not be a good fit for you, and that's fine. But if you're
curious
about how an active open source community uses Zulip, you can check out
chat.zulip.org. Some of their usage is testing Zulip itself, but I
think a
lot of the modes of interaction are more general to an open-source
project
and could carry over to Sage.
David
P.S. The meeting today went well; I think the participants saw the value
in
being able to keep multiple simultaneous conversations both interleaved
and
separable.
John
On 8 August 2017 at 00:54, David Roe <roed...@gmail.com <javascript:>>
wrote:
Here's a status report from playing around with it for a few days.
* I find it pretty interesting to watch the feeds of everything
that's
happening on trac (you can also just focus on a single component).
* I think that it will be quite useful for having online Sage Days,
which
have happened at various points in the past but not much in recent
years.
We're going to be having somewhat regular p-adics meetings on Zulip,
the
first being tomorrow at 12pm EDT, 6pm CEST. Feel free to join us, or
organize your own meetings.
* If you want to ask me for a code review, that's what the code
review
stream is for. :-)
David
On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 1:02 PM, William Stein <wst...@gmail.com
<javascript:>> wrote:
Hi,
Zulip was also founded and is run by Tim Abbott, who did a lot of
work
on
Sage in the past, mainly single-handedly getting Sage into Debian
back
in
2007... He's now focusing a lot of effort on Zulip.
-- William
On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:44 AM David Roe <roed...@gmail.com
<javascript:>> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I've set up a server running Zulip for realtime collaboration on
Sage.
You can try it out at zulip.sagemath.org. More details below....
Zulip
Zulip is an open source group chat program (see their website and
chat
room). Zulip is organized into streams, and within each stream you
can
narrow by topic. I've set up a bunch of streams to start us off,
but
you
can also create your own.
Signing up
You can register using a google account, a github account, or by
entering
an e-mail and password. Note that the e-mail settings are not yet
fully
configured, so e-mails will most likely go to your spam filter;
check
there
first. If you have other problems registering, please let me know.
Streams
There is a set of default streams that you will be subscribed to
when
you
join, but there are lots more that you can find in the Manage
Streams
menu
in Settings. For example, you might want to subscribe to the
"number
theory" and "padics" streams, or to the "combinatorics" and
"porting"
streams.
Integration with Trac
I've set up a bot so that every update to trac gets sent to the
trac
stream and to a stream for the component (e.g. trac-padics); you
can
either
subscribe to "trac" to get all notifications or to a set of
components.
Since trac's wiki language isn't the same as markdown, some of the
formatting will be off. If you're interested in improving the bot,
let me
know!
Audience
For now, I want to see how well Zulip works for the Sage developers
(for
example, with enough critical mass of users it might become a good
place to
find people to review your tickets). Eventually, I could also see
Zulip also
being valuable as a place where users could ask questions. Some of
the
streams that I've set up are with this aim in mind.
Hope to hear from you on Zulip!
David
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