On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 8:14 AM, Volker Braun <vbraun.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd also be more than happy to ship the personal SMC edition with sage when
> its ready; But sticking with the essentially unsupported SageNB for 1+years
> just to wait&see is not a sane plan. Even then, jupyter notebooks are a
> forward-safe choice so we have nothing to gain from waiting while people
> write new SageNB notebooks.
+1 and "personal SMC" is going to fully support using Jupyter no
matter what, which makes Jupyter notebooks even safer.
> As for the Jupyter wishlist, proper output capture would also be nice. Right
> now only the Python-internal stdout is captured, but for example
>
> sage: cython(r'printf("test\n")')
> test
>
> yields no output in Jupyter.
>
> There are at least two different multi-user Jupyter versions that are of
> interest; the authenticated (via unix account, much better than SageNB)
> jupyterhub and the anonymous https://tmpnb.org (try it now if you haven't
> seen it)
And SageMathCloud, which also provides multi-user Jupyter. At the
moment I write this, there are 59 jupyter notebooks running on SMC --
see "Running Instances" here:
https://cloud.sagemath.com/b97f6266-fe6f-4b40-bd88-9798994a04d1/raw/metrics/metrics.html
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 5, 2016 at 4:17:45 PM UTC+1, William wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:57 AM, kcrisman <kcri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > The question wasn't for you, but for all those who early in this thread
>> > said
>> > how awesome Jupyter was. But thank you for confirming.
>>
>> Some people tend to use/develop either Jupyter or SageMath notebooks
>> exclusively, and remain a little ignorant of the other one. There are
>> notable exceptions though, like Jason Grout who works a huge amount on
>> Jupyter development now (for pay!), but is also very knowledgable
>> about Sage. Personally, I'm looking at Jupyter-related stuff today,
>> since I'm rewriting (again) how synchronized editing works, and trying
>> to address various issue...
>>
>> One example of a subtle feature in Sage (notebook and worksheets) not
>> in Jupyter, which I was just reminded of, is output limiting. In Sage
>> there are numerous rules/options to deal with people doing stuff like:
>>
>> while True:
>> print "hi!"
>>
>> ... which is exactly what students will tend to do by accident...
>> Jupyter doesn't deal with this, but it might not be too hard to
>> implement in theory. One of the main problems is figuring out what
>> the arbitrary rate limiting defaults "should" be; it's arbitrary, and
>> depends a lot on whether everything is local, over the web, etc. so
>> getting a bunch of people to agree is hard, which might mean they will
>> never implement anything.
>>
>> Another basic -- and much harder to implement(!) -- subtle feature of
>> the sage notebook (and SMC) that Jupyter doesn't have is the
>> following. Try typing
>>
>> import time
>> for i in range(10):
>> time.sleep(1)
>> print i
>>
>> and closing your browser half way through. In Sagenb (and sagews)
>> it'll compute all the output and put it in the browser, where you'll
>> find it later when you visit the page. In Jupyter, all the output
>> that appears when you aren't observing the computation is lost. I
>> remember in maybe 2006 or 2007 implementing this and that it was very
>> important to researchers -- you can just start:
>>
>> for n in range(100):
>> print n, important_function_of(n)
>>
>> and come back tomorrow and see the result -- researchers *love* to be
>> able to do that without having to worry. With Jupyter, you have no
>> choice but to create a file, and output each result to that file, then
>> look in the file later; this is a bigger cognitive load.
>>
>> Implementing the above (recording all output without the browser
>> client open) requires adding a slightly nontrivial idea to how
>> Jupyter is implemented, so I don't think it's likely to be really
>> easy.
>>
>> Don't worry -- I've repeatedly mentioned the above differences to many
>> Jupyter developers, and I'm sure they will get addressed, since there
>> are a ton of people working on Jupyter.
>>
>> Anyway, there are many subtle differences... Everything can be worked
>> around, of course.
>>
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> And what of the long-term in Sage itself - would an eventual "SMC
>> >>> personal edition" become the default? [Not rhetorical but probably
>> >>> too far
>> >>> in the future to speculate]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> No clue. There's no legal or technical reason it couldn't happen...
>> >> This
>> >> year it likely won't as SMC is still changing way too much.
>> >
>> >
>> > So technical reason in the sense that even if someone did it, it would
>> > require a lot of maintenance to keep up with official SMC.
>> >
>> > +++
>> >
>> > On a less sarcastic note (and my apologies for that) I'm wondering what
>> > the
>> > status of Jupyterhub (the multi-user Jupyter, right?) is right now.
>> > Active
>> > development, but so is HURD... not that I am expecting it to take 30
>> > years
>> > to produce! Just curious if there are any inside scoops. Proper
>> > migration
>> > of entire servers being possible would be a much bigger reason to change
>> > the
>> > default.
>> >
>> > --
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>>
>>
>> --
>> William (http://wstein.org)
>
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