On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:57 AM, kcrisman <kcris...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The question wasn't for you, but for all those who early in this thread said
> how awesome Jupyter was. But thank you for confirming.
Some people tend to use/develop either Jupyter or SageMath notebooks
exclusively, and remain a little ignorant of the other one. There are
notable exceptions though, like Jason Grout who works a huge amount on
Jupyter development now (for pay!), but is also very knowledgable
about Sage. Personally, I'm looking at Jupyter-related stuff today,
since I'm rewriting (again) how synchronized editing works, and trying
to address various issue...
One example of a subtle feature in Sage (notebook and worksheets) not
in Jupyter, which I was just reminded of, is output limiting. In Sage
there are numerous rules/options to deal with people doing stuff like:
while True:
print "hi!"
... which is exactly what students will tend to do by accident...
Jupyter doesn't deal with this, but it might not be too hard to
implement in theory. One of the main problems is figuring out what
the arbitrary rate limiting defaults "should" be; it's arbitrary, and
depends a lot on whether everything is local, over the web, etc. so
getting a bunch of people to agree is hard, which might mean they will
never implement anything.
Another basic -- and much harder to implement(!) -- subtle feature of
the sage notebook (and SMC) that Jupyter doesn't have is the
following. Try typing
import time
for i in range(10):
time.sleep(1)
print i
and closing your browser half way through. In Sagenb (and sagews)
it'll compute all the output and put it in the browser, where you'll
find it later when you visit the page. In Jupyter, all the output
that appears when you aren't observing the computation is lost. I
remember in maybe 2006 or 2007 implementing this and that it was very
important to researchers -- you can just start:
for n in range(100):
print n, important_function_of(n)
and come back tomorrow and see the result -- researchers *love* to be
able to do that without having to worry. With Jupyter, you have no
choice but to create a file, and output each result to that file, then
look in the file later; this is a bigger cognitive load.
Implementing the above (recording all output without the browser
client open) requires adding a slightly nontrivial idea to how
Jupyter is implemented, so I don't think it's likely to be really
easy.
Don't worry -- I've repeatedly mentioned the above differences to many
Jupyter developers, and I'm sure they will get addressed, since there
are a ton of people working on Jupyter.
Anyway, there are many subtle differences... Everything can be worked
around, of course.
>
>>>
>>> And what of the long-term in Sage itself - would an eventual "SMC
>>> personal edition" become the default? [Not rhetorical but probably too far
>>> in the future to speculate]
>>
>>
>> No clue. There's no legal or technical reason it couldn't happen... This
>> year it likely won't as SMC is still changing way too much.
>
>
> So technical reason in the sense that even if someone did it, it would
> require a lot of maintenance to keep up with official SMC.
>
> +++
>
> On a less sarcastic note (and my apologies for that) I'm wondering what the
> status of Jupyterhub (the multi-user Jupyter, right?) is right now. Active
> development, but so is HURD... not that I am expecting it to take 30 years
> to produce! Just curious if there are any inside scoops. Proper migration
> of entire servers being possible would be a much bigger reason to change the
> default.
>
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--
William (http://wstein.org)
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