I'd also be more than happy to ship the personal SMC edition with sage when
its ready; But sticking with the essentially unsupported SageNB for 1+years
just to wait&see is not a sane plan. Even then, jupyter notebooks are a
forward-safe choice so we have nothing to gain from waiting while people
write new SageNB notebooks.
As for the Jupyter wishlist, proper output capture would also be nice.
Right now only the Python-internal stdout is captured, but for example
sage: cython(r'printf("test\n")')
test
yields no output in Jupyter.
There are at least two different multi-user Jupyter versions that are of
interest; the authenticated (via unix account, much better than SageNB)
jupyterhub and the anonymous https://tmpnb.org (try it now if you haven't
seen it)
On Tuesday, January 5, 2016 at 4:17:45 PM UTC+1, William wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:57 AM, kcrisman <kcri...@gmail.com <javascript:>>
> wrote:
> > The question wasn't for you, but for all those who early in this thread
> said
> > how awesome Jupyter was. But thank you for confirming.
>
> Some people tend to use/develop either Jupyter or SageMath notebooks
> exclusively, and remain a little ignorant of the other one. There are
> notable exceptions though, like Jason Grout who works a huge amount on
> Jupyter development now (for pay!), but is also very knowledgable
> about Sage. Personally, I'm looking at Jupyter-related stuff today,
> since I'm rewriting (again) how synchronized editing works, and trying
> to address various issue...
>
> One example of a subtle feature in Sage (notebook and worksheets) not
> in Jupyter, which I was just reminded of, is output limiting. In Sage
> there are numerous rules/options to deal with people doing stuff like:
>
> while True:
> print "hi!"
>
> ... which is exactly what students will tend to do by accident...
> Jupyter doesn't deal with this, but it might not be too hard to
> implement in theory. One of the main problems is figuring out what
> the arbitrary rate limiting defaults "should" be; it's arbitrary, and
> depends a lot on whether everything is local, over the web, etc. so
> getting a bunch of people to agree is hard, which might mean they will
> never implement anything.
>
> Another basic -- and much harder to implement(!) -- subtle feature of
> the sage notebook (and SMC) that Jupyter doesn't have is the
> following. Try typing
>
> import time
> for i in range(10):
> time.sleep(1)
> print i
>
> and closing your browser half way through. In Sagenb (and sagews)
> it'll compute all the output and put it in the browser, where you'll
> find it later when you visit the page. In Jupyter, all the output
> that appears when you aren't observing the computation is lost. I
> remember in maybe 2006 or 2007 implementing this and that it was very
> important to researchers -- you can just start:
>
> for n in range(100):
> print n, important_function_of(n)
>
> and come back tomorrow and see the result -- researchers *love* to be
> able to do that without having to worry. With Jupyter, you have no
> choice but to create a file, and output each result to that file, then
> look in the file later; this is a bigger cognitive load.
>
> Implementing the above (recording all output without the browser
> client open) requires adding a slightly nontrivial idea to how
> Jupyter is implemented, so I don't think it's likely to be really
> easy.
>
> Don't worry -- I've repeatedly mentioned the above differences to many
> Jupyter developers, and I'm sure they will get addressed, since there
> are a ton of people working on Jupyter.
>
> Anyway, there are many subtle differences... Everything can be worked
> around, of course.
>
> >
> >>>
> >>> And what of the long-term in Sage itself - would an eventual "SMC
> >>> personal edition" become the default? [Not rhetorical but probably
> too far
> >>> in the future to speculate]
> >>
> >>
> >> No clue. There's no legal or technical reason it couldn't happen...
> This
> >> year it likely won't as SMC is still changing way too much.
> >
> >
> > So technical reason in the sense that even if someone did it, it would
> > require a lot of maintenance to keep up with official SMC.
> >
> > +++
> >
> > On a less sarcastic note (and my apologies for that) I'm wondering what
> the
> > status of Jupyterhub (the multi-user Jupyter, right?) is right now.
> Active
> > development, but so is HURD... not that I am expecting it to take 30
> years
> > to produce! Just curious if there are any inside scoops. Proper
> migration
> > of entire servers being possible would be a much bigger reason to change
> the
> > default.
> >
> > --
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>
>
> --
> William (http://wstein.org)
>
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