> > At the same time, the concession that python3.spkg *can* still provide > python if really wanted helps Marc see that the MacOS app build is taken > seriously. I would expect it's a major delivery platform of sagemath > functionality to users, so it should be taken seriously.
Anecdotally in my department, it seems at least as many people use the MacOS build as build from source. so +1 to this. On Wed, Apr 9, 2025 at 2:37 PM Nils Bruin <nbr...@sfu.ca> wrote: > On Wednesday, 9 April 2025 at 12:15:07 UTC-7 dim...@gmail.com wrote: > > No, this won't fly. This is going to break the already fragile logic > behind package types. > Standard packages cannot be optionally installed, so it can't stay > standard. Optional packages probably cannot appear in toolchain. > > > Presently python3 is a standard package, right? And most of the time the > packages "succeeds" by not installing anything (because prerequisites are > sufficient to provide what is wanted). Standard packages can also fail if > hard prereqs are not met. We can have a standard package python3 that is > simply a stand-in for ensuring that a sufficient python is provided. It > looks like there is a particular scenario where python3 would behave > differently, by actually installing python3 -- namely for building the > MacOS app. > > It sounds to me that Marc is worried that satisfying the python3 > requirement for the MacOS app is going to be fragile if it's not done > through the standard package route that has been in place since the start > of sage. That's more a confidence/trust issue than a technical issue. > Hence, providing a smoother transition path may inspire more confidence in > the participants. > > Your stated primary concern about the python3 package was that its attempt > to build mask other prerequisite deficiencies in the build environment. > Having a standard python3 package that by default only checks for the > availability of a sufficient python but that can still build python3 if > people really want would address your primary concern. So that should count > as progress for you. > > At the same time, the concession that python3.spkg *can* still provide > python if really wanted helps Marc see that the MacOS app build is taken > seriously. I would expect it's a major delivery platform of sagemath > functionality to users, so it should be taken seriously. > > Quite frankly, things like conda and uv are great initiatives and it would > be great for sage to work nice with them. Conda is getting quite mature and > has a wide user base, so transitioning to depending on conda may be a > reasonable choice. Even if something strange happens to the organization > behind Conda (those things tend to happen with open source initiatives on a > fairly regular basis), I think at this point we can be fairly confident > that it would get forked and remain reasonably supported. With "uv", on the > other hand, I don't think there's the track record yet to convert to being > dependent on it without alternatives. > > Slow transitions in build architecture decisions in mature projects are a > feature, not a bug. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-devel/-ASHfAXqVYo/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/c9f1ff09-5e5c-4b48-b8c1-cc636dc05d3an%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/c9f1ff09-5e5c-4b48-b8c1-cc636dc05d3an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAJ6VCMBWjFR8sHoKGjLBL1RTpMh4B0SBjTPQc-bty89DEOpMpA%40mail.gmail.com.
