Another migration route that we could consider: Importing the messages from AskBot into Google Groups (merging with the sage-support group).
I don't visit ask.sagemath.org much, so others who are regulars there may correct me, but it seems that the whole downvoting/upvoting / karma / accepting answers mechanism of this forum may have little value, as most questions have 0 or 1 answers. So if that's lost in the migration, perhaps not much is lost. Importing stuff via mailbox files to Google Groups is explained for example in https://geek.co.il/2018/05/16/migrating-google-groups-archives-between-accounts On Saturday, June 22, 2024 at 10:18:45 AM UTC-7 Matthias Koeppe wrote: > Reviving this old thread from 2021, as we are currently taking stock of > the project infrastructure (discussion in > https://groups.google.com/g/sagemath-admins, updating the wiki page > https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/Infrastructure). > > - server uses Askbot 0.7.59 (a 2020 hotfix of a 2015 version); current: > 0.12.2 (2023) > - https://ask.sagemath.org/questions/ looks at least 10 years out of date > re web design > - the "0 years ago" bug still shows > > > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 9:00:33 AM UTC-8 William Stein wrote: > >> Good idea -- I'll do that. >> >> On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 8:24 AM Dima Pasechnik <dim...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 15:59 William Stein, <wst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 6:49 AM Dima Pasechnik <dim...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 12:44 AM William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > Here's some very quick thoughts, some on topic and some off: >> >> > > >> >> > > - The original author of the software that ask.sagemath.org runs >> did initially do the configuration at some point long ago. He was starting >> a business to support instances in exchange for money. I wonder if that is >> still around? >> >> > >> >> > contact details, etc are here: https://askbot.com/ >> >> > (their own instance is running version 0.10.3) >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks. It looks like the obvious thing we would have to buy would be >> >> his hosting service, which is $45/month and provides this (see below). >> >> It seems like he doesn't offer any sort of "manage your existing site" >> >> service anymore. An obvious question is whether or not he would also >> >> migrate our existing site over to his hosted service. Also, we would >> >> be switching from "trust Thierry for backups, long term existence, >> >> etc." to "trust random guy in Chile who has nothing to do with Sage >> >> and also trust that William can ensure the $45/month gets paid >> >> somehow." So it seems he doesn't really provide the service >> >> (namely -- help us upgrade to the latest version) that he used to >> >> provide, and I can see why (it is probably a pain in the butt to do). >> > >> > >> > they offer consulting. It won't harm to ask whether they are willing to >> do an one-off job of upgrading. >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 30 day free trial >> >> All standard features >> >> SSL Support >> >> Single Sign On >> >> Up to 750 users >> >> Daily backups >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > If so, maybe we could pay him to update our ask.sagemath.org >> instance? In any case, many thanks to Thierry for maintaining >> ask.sagemath.org all these years! >> >> > > >> >> > > - The ziglang community has an interesting approach to the >> community discussion problem, which is just to welcome and try *everything* >> that somebody will set up, and see what sticks. They have a list of all the >> resources that various community members are running here, which is useful >> for ideas, in case there's interest in expanding what's available for Sage: >> https://github.com/ziglang/zig/wiki/Community >> >> > > My impression with zig is that the two main ways they communicate >> are (1) github issues, and (2) their Discord chat server, which is *very* >> active. Note that Discord has absolutely nothing to do with Discourse, and >> solves a completely different problem. We also use Discord for CoCalc, and >> it has a manageable steady stream of activity (in fact, some discussion >> there is about Sage). One aspect of Discord is that answers don't seem to >> get indexed by Google; it's very different than ask.sagemath.org or >> Discourse. I think the Sage community currently has no *active* general >> realtime community chat, though we used to all use IRC for Sage very >> heavily a long time ago, and I think Gitter was also popular at one point. >> There's the Zulip for Sage here https://www.sagemath.org/help-zulip.html >> but it's not that active. A point in favor of Discord is that it is what >> all the kids are currently using to discuss video games, hence they are >> likely to already be using it, and get notifications, etc; it's also very >> functional for free (unlike Slack). >> >> > > >> >> > > - Github has a free thing that is supposed to compete with >> Discourse, I think, called "Github Discussions". I tried encouraging people >> to use Github Discussions for CoCalc (see >> https://github.com/sagemathinc/cocalc/discussions), e.g., by linking to >> it in a few places, but it is totally dead. Nobody uses it. I'm not sure >> why. >> >> > > >> >> > > -- William >> >> > > >> >> > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 3:43 PM Thierry < >> sage-goo...@lma.metelu.net> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> > >> On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 07:00:54AM -0800, kcrisman wrote: >> >> > >> > Some hopefully-useful comments: >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > Overall, I am not sure why the project is running this server. >> I think we >> >> > >> > > are spreading ourselves pretty thin here. There is also: >> >> > >> > > - https://groups.google.com/g/sage-support >> >> > >> > > - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/sage >> >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > 50 questions in last 6 months - thankfully, not as many about >> the Sage ERP >> >> > >> > software as in the past - so nowhere near the volume of >> ask.sagemath? But >> >> > >> > see below. >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > > - https://stackexchange.com/search?q=sage >> >> > >> > > - https://mathoverflow.net/search?q=sage >> >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > negligible >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > Also https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/sagemath >> - 50 >> >> > >> > questions in the past 18 months. >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > Though I haven't had time to contribute to any of these >> regularly since >> >> > >> > somewhat before the pandemic, my observations are twofold on >> this: >> >> > >> > 1) The same people were helping on both the SE sites and >> ask.sagemath >> >> > >> > 2) The response time and quality (and number of answers) were >> all better on >> >> > >> > ask.sagemath >> >> > >> > It's possible this has changed recently, but more likely it is >> just that >> >> > >> > some of the networking issues have made it less reliable, but >> haven't >> >> > >> > improved service on the other sites. Contributors to answers >> have liked >> >> > >> > ask.sagemath. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> An additional benefit from ask.sagemath is that is it well >> referenced on >> >> > >> search engines, so that answers posted there can be used as a >> knowledge >> >> > >> database. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > I do notice that ask.sagemath has for some time only reported >> "0 years >> >> > >> > ago" for recent questions - I don't think the askbot developer >> >> > >> > (https://askbot.com) has been super productive lately and of >> course we >> >> > >> > don't have the ability to support that software as well as Sage >> >> > >> > itself. That seems to be more of a sticking point, though I >> think >> >> > >> > Thierry and Samuel will have some relevant comments on that. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> This "0 years ago" comes from a change in some javascript where, >> there >> >> > >> is a jump from hours to years, without knowing about days and >> months. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> Maybe it is fixed on another upstream branch. Note that we are >> still on >> >> > >> the 0.7.x branch since migrating requires some work. Indeed, when >> we >> >> > >> upgrade, we need to run some migration scripts that update the >> database >> >> > >> structure. Unfortunately, our database scheme is not exactly the >> same as >> >> > >> the official one since in the early years, ask.sagemath was >> installed by >> >> > >> askbot developper himself, who adapted the db to some needs >> (perhaps >> >> > >> William can say more about that). We already fixed a lots of such >> >> > >> things, but when i moved ask.sagemath in emergency last year from >> Ohio >> >> > >> State University to Paris North University, i updated the >> versions until >> >> > >> i fall on some database migration issue and did not go further. >> This >> >> > >> might not be that hard to fix, but it is pretty boring (one have >> to >> >> > >> understand where is the bug, do some sql to adapt our tweaked >> database >> >> > >> to what it is supposed to be, and try again to see if the >> migration >> >> > >> script pass). >> >> > >> >> >> > >> If someone from the community is willing to give a try, i could >> set up a >> >> > >> separated container, that is a duplicate of the current >> production >> >> > >> server and provide an SSH access. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > As for sage-support, it's always surprising to me how many >> "customers" >> >> > >> > simply disappear as soon as you mention asking a question there >> - >> >> > >> > somehow they either want a Q&A site, or to ask on Facebook, or >> >> > >> > whatever. I don't really know why this happens, but clearly the >> Q&A >> >> > >> > sites (in toto) are necessary. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> It is a pity that sage-support is not well referenced by search >> engines >> >> > >> since there are some pretty good answers there. If i understand >> >> > >> correctly, on discourse it is possible to ask and answer >> questions by >> >> > >> email, so that people that prefer the sage-support way could >> contribute >> >> > >> as well. However, i think that merging ask.sagemath and >> sage-support >> >> > >> into some discourse instance and keep all links well redirected >> will >> >> > >> require quite some work. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> Ciao, >> >> > >> Thierry >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > Finally, to anticipate a question that has come up in the past >> on this >> >> > >> > issue, I had previously inquired with a SE employee about >> transferring >> >> > >> > data, and it seems it's not really a viable option. (As a very >> tangential >> >> > >> > note, one could make a similar observation about Trac versus >> GH/GL - could >> >> > >> > one take all those very useful discussions and import them?) >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > -- >> >> > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google Groups "sage-devel" group. >> >> > >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >> it, send an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> >> > >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/3ab714cf-5987-4a1d-9f99-471e616e83a8n%40googlegroups.com. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> -- >> >> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google Groups "sage-devel" group. >> >> > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> >> > >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/20211214234339.GC5262%40metelu.net. >> >> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > -- >> >> > > William (http://wstein.org) >> >> > > >> >> > > -- >> >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "sage-devel" group. >> >> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> >> > > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GBNueo5hK04X0s4jcuykF9G3P%2BjG_WdL9Ko0epostaFjg%40mail.gmail.com. >> >> >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "sage-devel" group. >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq3qUz-eAF1Yg%3DN9NaGsD3VFj4sb6sVp_-PYaCThdtf2Sw%40mail.gmail.com. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> William (http://wstein.org) >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "sage-devel" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GAFXyEzWEHWLVEoiMoF-6Hw7unwb0Zd%2Bsi6_DvreCa7WA%40mail.gmail.com. >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "sage-devel" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq3UdJgiSacn-nRjnW_QqPMYKvHOTEu-509gqnobKGwkgw%40mail.gmail.com. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> William (http://wstein.org) >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. 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