Reviving this old thread from 2021, as we are currently taking stock of the project infrastructure (discussion in https://groups.google.com/g/sagemath-admins, updating the wiki page https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/Infrastructure).
- server uses Askbot 0.7.59 (a 2020 hotfix of a 2015 version); current: 0.12.2 (2023) - https://ask.sagemath.org/questions/ looks at least 10 years out of date re web design - the "0 years ago" bug still shows On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 9:00:33 AM UTC-8 William Stein wrote: > Good idea -- I'll do that. > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 8:24 AM Dima Pasechnik <dim...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 15:59 William Stein, <wst...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 6:49 AM Dima Pasechnik <dim...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > > >> > On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 12:44 AM William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Here's some very quick thoughts, some on topic and some off: > >> > > > >> > > - The original author of the software that ask.sagemath.org runs > did initially do the configuration at some point long ago. He was starting > a business to support instances in exchange for money. I wonder if that is > still around? > >> > > >> > contact details, etc are here: https://askbot.com/ > >> > (their own instance is running version 0.10.3) > >> > >> > >> Thanks. It looks like the obvious thing we would have to buy would be > >> his hosting service, which is $45/month and provides this (see below). > >> It seems like he doesn't offer any sort of "manage your existing site" > >> service anymore. An obvious question is whether or not he would also > >> migrate our existing site over to his hosted service. Also, we would > >> be switching from "trust Thierry for backups, long term existence, > >> etc." to "trust random guy in Chile who has nothing to do with Sage > >> and also trust that William can ensure the $45/month gets paid > >> somehow." So it seems he doesn't really provide the service > >> (namely -- help us upgrade to the latest version) that he used to > >> provide, and I can see why (it is probably a pain in the butt to do). > > > > > > they offer consulting. It won't harm to ask whether they are willing to > do an one-off job of upgrading. > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> 30 day free trial > >> All standard features > >> SSL Support > >> Single Sign On > >> Up to 750 users > >> Daily backups > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > If so, maybe we could pay him to update our ask.sagemath.org > instance? In any case, many thanks to Thierry for maintaining > ask.sagemath.org all these years! > >> > > > >> > > - The ziglang community has an interesting approach to the > community discussion problem, which is just to welcome and try *everything* > that somebody will set up, and see what sticks. They have a list of all the > resources that various community members are running here, which is useful > for ideas, in case there's interest in expanding what's available for Sage: > https://github.com/ziglang/zig/wiki/Community > >> > > My impression with zig is that the two main ways they communicate > are (1) github issues, and (2) their Discord chat server, which is *very* > active. Note that Discord has absolutely nothing to do with Discourse, and > solves a completely different problem. We also use Discord for CoCalc, and > it has a manageable steady stream of activity (in fact, some discussion > there is about Sage). One aspect of Discord is that answers don't seem to > get indexed by Google; it's very different than ask.sagemath.org or > Discourse. I think the Sage community currently has no *active* general > realtime community chat, though we used to all use IRC for Sage very > heavily a long time ago, and I think Gitter was also popular at one point. > There's the Zulip for Sage here https://www.sagemath.org/help-zulip.html > but it's not that active. A point in favor of Discord is that it is what > all the kids are currently using to discuss video games, hence they are > likely to already be using it, and get notifications, etc; it's also very > functional for free (unlike Slack). > >> > > > >> > > - Github has a free thing that is supposed to compete with > Discourse, I think, called "Github Discussions". I tried encouraging people > to use Github Discussions for CoCalc (see > https://github.com/sagemathinc/cocalc/discussions), e.g., by linking to > it in a few places, but it is totally dead. Nobody uses it. I'm not sure > why. > >> > > > >> > > -- William > >> > > > >> > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 3:43 PM Thierry <sage-goo...@lma.metelu.net> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 07:00:54AM -0800, kcrisman wrote: > >> > >> > Some hopefully-useful comments: > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Overall, I am not sure why the project is running this server. I > think we > >> > >> > > are spreading ourselves pretty thin here. There is also: > >> > >> > > - https://groups.google.com/g/sage-support > >> > >> > > - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/sage > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > 50 questions in last 6 months - thankfully, not as many about > the Sage ERP > >> > >> > software as in the past - so nowhere near the volume of > ask.sagemath? But > >> > >> > see below. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > - https://stackexchange.com/search?q=sage > >> > >> > > - https://mathoverflow.net/search?q=sage > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > negligible > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Also https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/sagemath - > 50 > >> > >> > questions in the past 18 months. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Though I haven't had time to contribute to any of these > regularly since > >> > >> > somewhat before the pandemic, my observations are twofold on > this: > >> > >> > 1) The same people were helping on both the SE sites and > ask.sagemath > >> > >> > 2) The response time and quality (and number of answers) were > all better on > >> > >> > ask.sagemath > >> > >> > It's possible this has changed recently, but more likely it is > just that > >> > >> > some of the networking issues have made it less reliable, but > haven't > >> > >> > improved service on the other sites. Contributors to answers > have liked > >> > >> > ask.sagemath. > >> > >> > >> > >> An additional benefit from ask.sagemath is that is it well > referenced on > >> > >> search engines, so that answers posted there can be used as a > knowledge > >> > >> database. > >> > >> > >> > >> > I do notice that ask.sagemath has for some time only reported "0 > years > >> > >> > ago" for recent questions - I don't think the askbot developer > >> > >> > (https://askbot.com) has been super productive lately and of > course we > >> > >> > don't have the ability to support that software as well as Sage > >> > >> > itself. That seems to be more of a sticking point, though I think > >> > >> > Thierry and Samuel will have some relevant comments on that. > >> > >> > >> > >> This "0 years ago" comes from a change in some javascript where, > there > >> > >> is a jump from hours to years, without knowing about days and > months. > >> > >> > >> > >> Maybe it is fixed on another upstream branch. Note that we are > still on > >> > >> the 0.7.x branch since migrating requires some work. Indeed, when > we > >> > >> upgrade, we need to run some migration scripts that update the > database > >> > >> structure. Unfortunately, our database scheme is not exactly the > same as > >> > >> the official one since in the early years, ask.sagemath was > installed by > >> > >> askbot developper himself, who adapted the db to some needs > (perhaps > >> > >> William can say more about that). We already fixed a lots of such > >> > >> things, but when i moved ask.sagemath in emergency last year from > Ohio > >> > >> State University to Paris North University, i updated the versions > until > >> > >> i fall on some database migration issue and did not go further. > This > >> > >> might not be that hard to fix, but it is pretty boring (one have to > >> > >> understand where is the bug, do some sql to adapt our tweaked > database > >> > >> to what it is supposed to be, and try again to see if the migration > >> > >> script pass). > >> > >> > >> > >> If someone from the community is willing to give a try, i could > set up a > >> > >> separated container, that is a duplicate of the current production > >> > >> server and provide an SSH access. > >> > >> > >> > >> > As for sage-support, it's always surprising to me how many > "customers" > >> > >> > simply disappear as soon as you mention asking a question there - > >> > >> > somehow they either want a Q&A site, or to ask on Facebook, or > >> > >> > whatever. I don't really know why this happens, but clearly the > Q&A > >> > >> > sites (in toto) are necessary. > >> > >> > >> > >> It is a pity that sage-support is not well referenced by search > engines > >> > >> since there are some pretty good answers there. If i understand > >> > >> correctly, on discourse it is possible to ask and answer questions > by > >> > >> email, so that people that prefer the sage-support way could > contribute > >> > >> as well. However, i think that merging ask.sagemath and > sage-support > >> > >> into some discourse instance and keep all links well redirected > will > >> > >> require quite some work. > >> > >> > >> > >> Ciao, > >> > >> Thierry > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Finally, to anticipate a question that has come up in the past > on this > >> > >> > issue, I had previously inquired with a SE employee about > transferring > >> > >> > data, and it seems it's not really a viable option. (As a very > tangential > >> > >> > note, one could make a similar observation about Trac versus > GH/GL - could > >> > >> > one take all those very useful discussions and import them?) > >> > >> > > >> > >> > -- > >> > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "sage-devel" group. > >> > >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. > >> > >> > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/3ab714cf-5987-4a1d-9f99-471e616e83a8n%40googlegroups.com > . > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "sage-devel" group. > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. > >> > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/20211214234339.GC5262%40metelu.net > . > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > William (http://wstein.org) > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "sage-devel" group. > >> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. > >> > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GBNueo5hK04X0s4jcuykF9G3P%2BjG_WdL9Ko0epostaFjg%40mail.gmail.com > . > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "sage-devel" group. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. > >> > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq3qUz-eAF1Yg%3DN9NaGsD3VFj4sb6sVp_-PYaCThdtf2Sw%40mail.gmail.com > . > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> William (http://wstein.org) > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "sage-devel" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GAFXyEzWEHWLVEoiMoF-6Hw7unwb0Zd%2Bsi6_DvreCa7WA%40mail.gmail.com > . > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "sage-devel" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq3UdJgiSacn-nRjnW_QqPMYKvHOTEu-509gqnobKGwkgw%40mail.gmail.com > . > > > > -- > William (http://wstein.org) > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. 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