On Tue, Nov 28, 2023 at 10:02 PM David Roe <roed.m...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Let's try to focus on the policy proposal, rather than specific disagreements > on individual PRs.
The whole thing about specific disagreements on individual PRs comes exactly from the wrong overall direction of the project. Which replaced, hopeless in the long run, "just vendor everything" motto with even worse and much more labour-intensive "let's keep track of everything Sage users could possibly need and use, on every system Sage could run". Let's stop this control freakery, then we won't run into disagreements born out of frustration, and there won't be any urgent need for this proposal in the 1st place. Dima > > Dima, I'm sorry that you're feeling frustrated with the whole process. It > may be helpful to have additional directions about the overall strategy for > Sage's build system, but that's better put off to another thread. > David > > On Tue, Nov 28, 2023 at 4:48 PM Dima Pasechnik <dimp...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On Tue, Nov 28, 2023 at 9:25 PM Kwankyu Lee <ekwan...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Meanwhile, Matthias and Dima spent lots of mental energy to produce a >> > prime example showing why we need the policy: >> > >> > https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36726 >> > >> > Please come down from sun-shining deck to the murky bottom of our ship to >> > see the danger that might drown all of us... >> >> well, I am trying to pull the ship into the sea of normal Python >> packages, while participating in the endless bloating up of the build >> system and the external packages (because everything must be built >> from source, as if we toil for one of super-paranoid 3-letter >> agencies) >> we are drowning in. >> >> Like, adding by hand hundreds of 1-line text files to basically >> duplicate what's known to pip. >> >> See e.g. https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36777 >> (WIP, where I'm supposed to add about 400 such files by copy/paste >> from https://repology.org/) >> - totally unneeded, we just should not be shipping Jupyter and >> IPython. They can be pip-installed just fine. >> >> We could have removed the bloat of "toolchain" years ago. No major >> Python package/system ships >> compilers, and vendored Python. No major Python system ships anything >> Jupyter (E.g. look at scipy, sympy). >> Meanwhile Mattias couldn't even part with Cygwin deadwood: >> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36782 >> >> I am hating this senseless process more and more. Other people who >> work on the build system aren't exactly happy with the direction this >> is all going to, >> either. >> >> Dima >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> > "sage-devel" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/8b07f03b-b60a-4cce-9dd9-59925bdf15c1n%40googlegroups.com. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "sage-devel" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq35iKf1EkaLkccvNp7kd9e254QD5Y4%2B1BoFROJL2R1iiQ%40mail.gmail.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAChs6_kif5KcLFTdWVXMs8acbkg6iDxCQinF6SO_81Uavkt6uQ%40mail.gmail.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq1-9QPP5jpP4ERypewqd3XybNLz9PZUgP4KemMu1-q45Q%40mail.gmail.com.
