On the subject of RSD, Remember when SMA had the RSD box, goes next to the array on the roof and in the event it opens rhe contacts, never had any issues with that box, as long as you shut the array down within 3 feet of that array. I can see the use of arc fault along with ground fault but RSD at the nodule has its benefits but at an increase in other potential liabilities. Fun times
On Sat, Feb 15, 2025, 11:54 AM Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > It is from IMO. If someone buys enough volume the price might be closer to > reasonable, but with installation labor it will always be a premium > product. It might be worthwhile for off grid projects. > > On Sat, Feb 15, 2025, 11:47 AM Glenn via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I thought the FireRaptor was an IMO device? >> >> -Glenn >> >> On Feb 15, 2025 10:47, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Oh, I just looked to see if the FireRaptor is still somewhat pricey, and >> it looks like they might be hard to find if available at all. The only >> source I found had them for double the price they used to be from OutBack. >> >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 7:44 AM Bradley Bassett <bbasse...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> You asked... the IMO FireRaptors I've installed seem to be completely >> reliable since they have their own separate 24VDC activation circuit. I do >> kind of like that the circuits are dead while working on them, but the >> extra wiring is of course more work. There is a huge amount of wire mgmt to >> do since the leads are all 6ft long, both the PV output circuits and the >> 24VDC activation circuits. Best is the fact that they work on ANY charge >> control or inverter. With older modules like my REC260's you can put two >> modules per FireRaptor. >> >> It would be fine by me if RSD was no longer a requirement. >> Doesn't Tesla have a UL listing for array level RSD now? >> BTW the AP smart does not work with Classic charge controllers. >> >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 6:07 AM david quattro via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> RSD is the worst thing to happen to solar. Has anyone considered civil >> disobedience? >> I wonder what would happen if all the installers banded together and >> refused, as a united industry ‘brotherhood.’ WE are the ones stuck with the >> bullshit in the aftermath. >> I’m not being snarky here , this a genuine question to the group: >> Does anyone have *good* experience with RSD? i.e. you’re really glad >> RSD was there, and you genuinely feel safer? you’re glad and happy to >> comply with this code and you look forward to continuing to use RSD for the >> rest of your career? >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 3:40 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> it seems silly that we are required to install these extra pieces of >> equipment for added "safety", that are actually a fire hazard on the roof. >> Just to survey again: how many homes have been saved by RSD? How many fire >> fighters have actually actuated the RSD system, so that they could hack >> through the array to vent the roof? >> >> I think it should only be required if you have covered so much of the >> roof with PV, that the fire dept can't access uncovered roof to do their >> venting. The whole premise of RSD is flawed. IMHO, its just another >> effort to block the wider adoption of solar. >> >> When it comes to off grid, RSD causes such a decrease in reliability to >> amount to a decrease in safety, due to possible loss of communications, >> water, and heat. Add the fire hazard and RSD is really not making our >> customers' lives better. >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> On 2/14/2025 3:52 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> I had a site (not my install) with a ground rack and these TS4-F units, >> and they exhibited the exact same burn characteristics. At least half of >> them were burned up to some degree. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 2:11 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Hello Nick, >> >> Yes, it's the TS4-F units. We have made every effort to install to the >> specs provided (as the goal post and solutions keep changing) but have >> still seen RSD's start to swell and/or burn over time. We've separated DC >> wires and home runs and stayed within the home run complete circuit >> distance that is recommended. We've used the "Pure Signal" transmitter >> solution that syncs up the signaling from multiple inverters in an effort >> to avoid the "chatter" that starts when the RSD is failing (see video below >> about that). >> >> It's all field R&D at our expense in my opinion. Sadly, I'd be happy if >> the RSD failed and didn't work but it starts to work in overdrive until it >> burns up and causes an arc. These photos below are from a site where we >> got lucky and the fire didn't spread. Below the photos is a link to a >> video of Tigo and Mayfield discussing the crosstalk issue. >> >> >> >> >> >> Here is a video discussion of the cross-talk and signal corruption issues >> that are the supposed cause of the unit's failure's: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao> >> Mayfield Renewables and Tigo Energy - Crosstalk Workshop >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao> >> A deep dive into how to design PLC (Power-Line Communication) based solar >> rapid shutdown systems in order to minimize cross-talk and other signal >> integrity issues. This is a technical presentation meant to assist with the >> design of large scale solar rooftop arrays that use PLC-based rapid >> shutdown systems, which are used to meet the rapid ... >> www.youtube.com >> >> >> David Buckner >> >> President >> >> 917-848-0215 >> >> 718-389-1545 >> >> 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222 >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> on >> behalf of Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2025 1:26 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> *Cc:* Nick Lucchese <luccheseso...@gmail.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter experience >> >> CAUTION: External Email. >> Greetings David, >> >> Can you elaborate on which products of theirs failed catastrophically? >> Their TS4-F single and double units by chance? My experience has been an >> annoying occurrence where certain installed units lock up >> requring replacement after the array is shut down for O&M tasks but nothing >> that starts burning as you mentioned. I've still got a reasonable amount of >> them in my inventory but would rather not deploy if they're "burning" in >> some way. >> >> Thanks for sharing your experience, Nick >> >> *We've had catastrophic failures with the RSDs and have heard from plenty >> of others that have had the same. The company denies and deflects and >> blames the installer until you are fatigued. A product that uses power >> line communication that can start burning when the signal gets corrupted >> should not be allowed to remain on the market.* >> >> *David Buckner* >> *SES* >> >> >> David Buckner >> >> President >> >> Solar Energy Systems >> >> 917-848-0215 >> >> 718-389-1545 >> >> dbuck...@solaresystems.com >> >> www.solaresystems.com >> <https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.solaresystems.com%2F&tenantid=sjl0rdWaEe6F-WBFvdNAXQ&templateid=933619bad6e2ee11aaf06045bdd55b16&excomponentid=W0znjuLBICxfJOZwpEisk1w6Uz7kRcz8RFh31bsCZu4&excomponenttype=Link&signature=oLHGWCDHeQYPxuVijopczXguVIz2A9gWA29emAtwvdbqV2XsAnsbVfPJR3OQHtcxck-4zeNWEHrxwAX_LXCUOBXnvLDZkSB3Ue09sLzQcUNKGxMLclBt5peel7iiM1neHKnk8UctTRnOeUfIagifjZaGWicP4Wi23eUaL-JSNh0iUlYWH5Y2kOEt_QGU-R6LtdhPzR8aNOqjq8ttGuksaSFX3YQorUNiBDkXDGXmmCSiiNgljGMekvYiEvoXMsCe_CC1DpnfHsaH45ZBD8L442uACHbkOuyDJ-IG20zpBYXGK3TzDh-GW4efLwZfi6MUcJohrIgQQag5JDhSynWoDQ&v=1&imprintMessageId=70f4909c-5e4b-4d4e-a4f1-8a28a937dd26> >> >> 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222 >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 6:06 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> We've had catastrophic failures with the RSDs and have heard from plenty >> of others that have had the same. The company denies and deflects and >> blames the installer until you are fatigued. A product that uses power >> line communication that can start burning when the signal gets corrupted >> should not be allowed to remain on the market. >> >> David Buckner >> SES >> >> >> David Buckner >> >> President >> >> Solar Energy Systems >> >> 917-848-0215 >> >> 718-389-1545 >> >> dbuck...@solaresystems.com >> >> www.solaresystems.com >> <https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.solaresystems.com%2F&tenantid=sjl0rdWaEe6F-WBFvdNAXQ&templateid=933619bad6e2ee11aaf06045bdd55b16&excomponentid=W0znjuLBICxfJOZwpEisk1w6Uz7kRcz8RFh31bsCZu4&excomponenttype=Link&signature=oLHGWCDHeQYPxuVijopczXguVIz2A9gWA29emAtwvdbqV2XsAnsbVfPJR3OQHtcxck-4zeNWEHrxwAX_LXCUOBXnvLDZkSB3Ue09sLzQcUNKGxMLclBt5peel7iiM1neHKnk8UctTRnOeUfIagifjZaGWicP4Wi23eUaL-JSNh0iUlYWH5Y2kOEt_QGU-R6LtdhPzR8aNOqjq8ttGuksaSFX3YQorUNiBDkXDGXmmCSiiNgljGMekvYiEvoXMsCe_CC1DpnfHsaH45ZBD8L442uACHbkOuyDJ-IG20zpBYXGK3TzDh-GW4efLwZfi6MUcJohrIgQQag5JDhSynWoDQ&v=1&imprintMessageId=70f4909c-5e4b-4d4e-a4f1-8a28a937dd26> >> >> 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222 >> >> The information contained in this email message, including any attached >> files transmitted, is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is >> intended for the sole use of the individual(s) named above. If you are the >> intended recipient, be aware that your use of any confidential or personal >> information may be restricted by state and federal privacy laws. If you, >> the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby >> notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute or forward >> this email message. Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secured >> or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, >> destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender >> therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the >> contents of this message, which arise as a result of this e-mail >> transmission. If you have received this email in error, please notify the >> sender and immediately delete the material from your computer system. Thank >> you. >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> on >> behalf of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2025 7:05 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> *Cc:* Howie Michaelson <howie.michael...@gmail.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. 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