Oh, I just looked to see if the FireRaptor is still somewhat pricey, and it looks like they might be hard to find if available at all. The only source I found had them for double the price they used to be from OutBack.On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 7:44 AM Bradley Bassett <bbassett2@gmail.com> wrote:You asked... the IMO FireRaptors I've installed seem to be completely reliable since they have their own separate 24VDC activation circuit. I do kind of like that the circuits are dead while working on them, but the extra wiring is of course more work. There is a huge amount of wire mgmt to do since the leads are all 6ft long, both the PV output circuits and the 24VDC activation circuits. Best is the fact that they work on ANY charge control or inverter. With older modules like my REC260's you can put two modules per FireRaptor.It would be fine by me if RSD was no longer a requirement.Doesn't Tesla have a UL listing for array level RSD now?BTW the AP smart does not work with Classic charge controllers.On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 6:07 AM david quattro via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:RSD is the worst thing to happen to solar. Has anyone considered civil disobedience?I wonder what would happen if all the installers banded together and refused, as a united industry ‘brotherhood.’ WE are the ones stuck with the bullshit in the aftermath.I’m not being snarky here , this a genuine question to the group: Does anyone have good experience with RSD? i.e. you’re really glad RSD was there, and you genuinely feel safer? you’re glad and happy to comply with this code and you look forward to continuing to use RSD for the rest of your career?On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 3:40 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:it seems silly that we are required to install these extra pieces of equipment for added "safety", that are actually a fire hazard on the roof. Just to survey again: how many homes have been saved by RSD? How many fire fighters have actually actuated the RSD system, so that they could hack through the array to vent the roof?
I think it should only be required if you have covered so much of the roof with PV, that the fire dept can't access uncovered roof to do their venting. The whole premise of RSD is flawed. IMHO, its just another effort to block the wider adoption of solar.
When it comes to off grid, RSD causes such a decrease in reliability to amount to a decrease in safety, due to possible loss of communications, water, and heat. Add the fire hazard and RSD is really not making our customers' lives better.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
On 2/14/2025 3:52 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
I had a site (not my install) with a ground rack and these TS4-F units, and they exhibited the exact same burn characteristics. At least half of them were burned up to some degree.
Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 2:11 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Hello Nick,
Yes, it's the TS4-F units. We have made every effort to install to the specs provided (as the goal post and solutions keep changing) but have still seen RSD's start to swell and/or burn over time. We've separated DC wires and home runs and stayed within the home run complete circuit distance that is recommended. We've used the "Pure Signal" transmitter solution that syncs up the signaling from multiple inverters in an effort to avoid the "chatter" that starts when the RSD is failing (see video below about that).
It's all field R&D at our expense in my opinion. Sadly, I'd be happy if the RSD failed and didn't work but it starts to work in overdrive until it burns up and causes an arc. These photos below are from a site where we got lucky and the fire didn't spread. Below the photos is a link to a video of Tigo and Mayfield discussing the crosstalk issue.
Here is a video discussion of the cross-talk and signal corruption issues that are the supposed cause of the unit's failure's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao
David Buckner
President
41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222
From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf of Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2025 1:26 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Cc: Nick Lucchese <lucchesesolar@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter experienceCAUTION: External Email.Greetings David,
Can you elaborate on which products of theirs failed catastrophically? Their TS4-F single and double units by chance? My experience has been an annoying occurrence where certain installed units lock up requring replacement after the array is shut down for O&M tasks but nothing that starts burning as you mentioned. I've still got a reasonable amount of them in my inventory but would rather not deploy if they're "burning" in some way.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Nick
We've had catastrophic failures with the RSDs and have heard from plenty of others that have had the same. The company denies and deflects and blames the installer until you are fatigued. A product that uses power line communication that can start burning when the signal gets corrupted should not be allowed to remain on the market.
David BucknerSES
David Buckner
President
Solar Energy Systems
41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222
On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 6:06 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
We've had catastrophic failures with the RSDs and have heard from plenty of others that have had the same. The company denies and deflects and blames the installer until you are fatigued. A product that uses power line communication that can start burning when the signal gets corrupted should not be allowed to remain on the market.
David BucknerSES
David Buckner
President
Solar Energy Systems
41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222
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From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2025 7:05 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Cc: Howie Michaelson <Howie.Michaelson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo
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