It is from IMO. If someone buys enough volume the price might be closer to reasonable, but with installation labor it will always be a premium product. It might be worthwhile for off grid projects.
On Sat, Feb 15, 2025, 11:47 AM Glenn via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I thought the FireRaptor was an IMO device? > > -Glenn > > On Feb 15, 2025 10:47, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Oh, I just looked to see if the FireRaptor is still somewhat pricey, and > it looks like they might be hard to find if available at all. The only > source I found had them for double the price they used to be from OutBack. > > On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 7:44 AM Bradley Bassett <bbasse...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > You asked... the IMO FireRaptors I've installed seem to be completely > reliable since they have their own separate 24VDC activation circuit. I do > kind of like that the circuits are dead while working on them, but the > extra wiring is of course more work. There is a huge amount of wire mgmt to > do since the leads are all 6ft long, both the PV output circuits and the > 24VDC activation circuits. Best is the fact that they work on ANY charge > control or inverter. With older modules like my REC260's you can put two > modules per FireRaptor. > > It would be fine by me if RSD was no longer a requirement. > Doesn't Tesla have a UL listing for array level RSD now? > BTW the AP smart does not work with Classic charge controllers. > > On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 6:07 AM david quattro via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > RSD is the worst thing to happen to solar. Has anyone considered civil > disobedience? > I wonder what would happen if all the installers banded together and > refused, as a united industry ‘brotherhood.’ WE are the ones stuck with the > bullshit in the aftermath. > I’m not being snarky here , this a genuine question to the group: > Does anyone have *good* experience with RSD? i.e. you’re really glad > RSD was there, and you genuinely feel safer? you’re glad and happy to > comply with this code and you look forward to continuing to use RSD for the > rest of your career? > > > > > On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 3:40 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > it seems silly that we are required to install these extra pieces of > equipment for added "safety", that are actually a fire hazard on the roof. > Just to survey again: how many homes have been saved by RSD? How many fire > fighters have actually actuated the RSD system, so that they could hack > through the array to vent the roof? > > I think it should only be required if you have covered so much of the roof > with PV, that the fire dept can't access uncovered roof to do their > venting. The whole premise of RSD is flawed. IMHO, its just another > effort to block the wider adoption of solar. > > When it comes to off grid, RSD causes such a decrease in reliability to > amount to a decrease in safety, due to possible loss of communications, > water, and heat. Add the fire hazard and RSD is really not making our > customers' lives better. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > On 2/14/2025 3:52 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I had a site (not my install) with a ground rack and these TS4-F units, > and they exhibited the exact same burn characteristics. At least half of > them were burned up to some degree. > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 2:11 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hello Nick, > > Yes, it's the TS4-F units. We have made every effort to install to the > specs provided (as the goal post and solutions keep changing) but have > still seen RSD's start to swell and/or burn over time. We've separated DC > wires and home runs and stayed within the home run complete circuit > distance that is recommended. We've used the "Pure Signal" transmitter > solution that syncs up the signaling from multiple inverters in an effort > to avoid the "chatter" that starts when the RSD is failing (see video below > about that). > > It's all field R&D at our expense in my opinion. Sadly, I'd be happy if > the RSD failed and didn't work but it starts to work in overdrive until it > burns up and causes an arc. These photos below are from a site where we > got lucky and the fire didn't spread. Below the photos is a link to a > video of Tigo and Mayfield discussing the crosstalk issue. > > > > > > Here is a video discussion of the cross-talk and signal corruption issues > that are the supposed cause of the unit's failure's: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao> > Mayfield Renewables and Tigo Energy - Crosstalk Workshop > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao> > A deep dive into how to design PLC (Power-Line Communication) based solar > rapid shutdown systems in order to minimize cross-talk and other signal > integrity issues. This is a technical presentation meant to assist with the > design of large scale solar rooftop arrays that use PLC-based rapid > shutdown systems, which are used to meet the rapid ... > www.youtube.com > > > David Buckner > > President > > 917-848-0215 > > 718-389-1545 > > 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222 > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf > of Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2025 1:26 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > *Cc:* Nick Lucchese <luccheseso...@gmail.com> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter experience > > CAUTION: External Email. > Greetings David, > > Can you elaborate on which products of theirs failed catastrophically? > Their TS4-F single and double units by chance? My experience has been an > annoying occurrence where certain installed units lock up > requring replacement after the array is shut down for O&M tasks but nothing > that starts burning as you mentioned. I've still got a reasonable amount of > them in my inventory but would rather not deploy if they're "burning" in > some way. > > Thanks for sharing your experience, Nick > > *We've had catastrophic failures with the RSDs and have heard from plenty > of others that have had the same. The company denies and deflects and > blames the installer until you are fatigued. A product that uses power > line communication that can start burning when the signal gets corrupted > should not be allowed to remain on the market.* > > *David Buckner* > *SES* > > > David Buckner > > President > > Solar Energy Systems > > 917-848-0215 > > 718-389-1545 > > dbuck...@solaresystems.com > > www.solaresystems.com > <https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.solaresystems.com%2F&tenantid=sjl0rdWaEe6F-WBFvdNAXQ&templateid=933619bad6e2ee11aaf06045bdd55b16&excomponentid=W0znjuLBICxfJOZwpEisk1w6Uz7kRcz8RFh31bsCZu4&excomponenttype=Link&signature=oLHGWCDHeQYPxuVijopczXguVIz2A9gWA29emAtwvdbqV2XsAnsbVfPJR3OQHtcxck-4zeNWEHrxwAX_LXCUOBXnvLDZkSB3Ue09sLzQcUNKGxMLclBt5peel7iiM1neHKnk8UctTRnOeUfIagifjZaGWicP4Wi23eUaL-JSNh0iUlYWH5Y2kOEt_QGU-R6LtdhPzR8aNOqjq8ttGuksaSFX3YQorUNiBDkXDGXmmCSiiNgljGMekvYiEvoXMsCe_CC1DpnfHsaH45ZBD8L442uACHbkOuyDJ-IG20zpBYXGK3TzDh-GW4efLwZfi6MUcJohrIgQQag5JDhSynWoDQ&v=1&imprintMessageId=70f4909c-5e4b-4d4e-a4f1-8a28a937dd26> > > 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222 > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 6:06 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > We've had catastrophic failures with the RSDs and have heard from plenty > of others that have had the same. The company denies and deflects and > blames the installer until you are fatigued. A product that uses power > line communication that can start burning when the signal gets corrupted > should not be allowed to remain on the market. > > David Buckner > SES > > > David Buckner > > President > > Solar Energy Systems > > 917-848-0215 > > 718-389-1545 > > dbuck...@solaresystems.com > > www.solaresystems.com > <https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.solaresystems.com%2F&tenantid=sjl0rdWaEe6F-WBFvdNAXQ&templateid=933619bad6e2ee11aaf06045bdd55b16&excomponentid=W0znjuLBICxfJOZwpEisk1w6Uz7kRcz8RFh31bsCZu4&excomponenttype=Link&signature=oLHGWCDHeQYPxuVijopczXguVIz2A9gWA29emAtwvdbqV2XsAnsbVfPJR3OQHtcxck-4zeNWEHrxwAX_LXCUOBXnvLDZkSB3Ue09sLzQcUNKGxMLclBt5peel7iiM1neHKnk8UctTRnOeUfIagifjZaGWicP4Wi23eUaL-JSNh0iUlYWH5Y2kOEt_QGU-R6LtdhPzR8aNOqjq8ttGuksaSFX3YQorUNiBDkXDGXmmCSiiNgljGMekvYiEvoXMsCe_CC1DpnfHsaH45ZBD8L442uACHbkOuyDJ-IG20zpBYXGK3TzDh-GW4efLwZfi6MUcJohrIgQQag5JDhSynWoDQ&v=1&imprintMessageId=70f4909c-5e4b-4d4e-a4f1-8a28a937dd26> > > 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222 > > The information contained in this email message, including any attached > files transmitted, is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is > intended for the sole use of the individual(s) named above. If you are the > intended recipient, be aware that your use of any confidential or personal > information may be restricted by state and federal privacy laws. If you, > the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute or forward > this email message. Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secured > or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, > destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender > therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the > contents of this message, which arise as a result of this e-mail > transmission. If you have received this email in error, please notify the > sender and immediately delete the material from your computer system. Thank > you. > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf > of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2025 7:05 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > *Cc:* Howie Michaelson <howie.michael...@gmail.com> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
