Jay, We’ve had lots of SE failures. Maybe not hundreds. Certainly dozens. Every level from small residential inverters to their 33 kW 480V units. And optimizers, though far fewer optimizers on a percentage basis. From an inverter perspective, the location doesn’t seem to have mattered much. Cool basements or hot rooftops have both seen failures for us. Internal component failures where we are first asked to verify correct voltage settings is the error I have experienced most frequently as of late. I also remember a couple tricky failures where the inverter started power limiting in the afternoons and we assumed it was overheating only to find out it was a manufacturing defect (which may have been causing it to overheat).
I thought SE had relayed failures to be a result of moving factories to avoid tariffs and QC failings at the new sites. They portray it as a solvable problem and I have some sympathy. Our customers that are on their third inverter in as many months are understandably skeptical. Matt From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of Jay Sent: Friday, July 24, 2020 12:49 PM To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge...continuous saga of 181/183 hardware failures...moving on to another inverter. Statistically it seems unlikely that installers who have both installed a lot of the same equipment would have such different results. I’m wondering if there are some common issues with SE failures. We’ve heard now from numerous installers with lots of failures and others with almost none. Believing both points to possible design or environmental issues. For example failures might be high on high PV dc/optimizer ratio or dc/ac ratio and low the other way. Or extreme hot, cold or environmental temperature swing environments Maybe it’s just which version/rev optimizer or inverter. Jay Peltz power On Jul 24, 2020, at 9:20 AM, August Goers <aug...@luminalt.com<mailto:aug...@luminalt.com>> wrote: We've installed lots of Enphase, SolarEdge, and the various string inverters over the years. As far as Enphase goes, our experience is not too far from what Jason described - we had thousands of the M190/M210 generation installed and experienced a very high failure rate. Our failure rate on those older systems seems to have stabilized. I think we're doing maybe one Enphase micro replacement site call per month or so, which is quite manageable. I do expect to continue to have a trickle of failures, but they are now not too far out of line compared to our string inverter failure rates (SMA/Fronious/ABB/Xantrex/Etc). We've been installing SolarEdge on our small and medium commercial system for the past few years with success. I don't think we've had a single failure, but we don't do a ton on commercial, we have 20 sites in our SolarEdge portfolio. I think it's good to focus on features, price, reliability, service, bankability, etc and continually reevaluate the companies and products on the market. We have certainly stopped installing Enphase back in 2013 when were seeing peak failures which was a good decision. But the newer equipment has been solid. SMA, which had classically been our go-to string inverter choice, just hasn't kept up with the market and their choices are too complicated compared to the SunPower AC modules (with Enphase micros built in) we're now installing. I'm sort of over DC systems for residential projects, especially if thinking about the KISS model of trying to keep everything as simple as possible. The wiring on an AC system is just getting basically as simple as it gets - just two hots to wire up and it doesn't even matter if you mix up the phasing. Good luck out there everyone! August Luminalt On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 8:37 AM Jason Szumlanski <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com<mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>> wrote: Enphase's early failure rate was ridiculous, but we are finding that once the faulty M190's were swapped after the first few years, the ones that didn't fail have been relatively solid. In other words, let's say (unscientifically) 30% of the M190's on a job installed 10 years ago failed in the first 3 years. After that, we had a VERY low failure rate on that system. I can't remember the last time I replaced an M190, and we have a lot of them floating around out there. In each successive generation (M215, M250, IQ6, IQ7) we have seen progressively lower failure rates in the first 1, 2, and 3 years, which points to a dramatic increase in initial reliability. If history is a guide, the IQ series looks like 10 years from now we will be calling it a huge success. Of course, only time will tell. Micro replacements are a nuisance, for sure, but we haven't 'lost' much money on replacements. I have lost lots of money struggling through string inverter replacements due to unknown complications (physical, electrical, monitoring, etc). A micro swap is a known entity and minimal complexity. I can send a minimally trained (lower cost) individual to handle it and deal with the administrative (monitoring) part in the office. The bottom line is that I am doing far FEWER micro replacements today than I did 6-7 years ago when I was maintaining less than 1/3 of the units I have now under supervision. My impression is that if micro is going to fail, it's going to fail early on. Let's hope I'm right. One last point... despite a couple of bumps in the road with service hold times and warranty replacement waits, Enphase's customer service has been second to none over the course of the last decade. Their front-line staff are well trained and knowledgeable, and access to second-tier support has been phenomenal. SE gives you the same runaround as Fronius (don't get me started on IGs) and other string inverter manufacturers when an HD Wave goes down (have to be on site, provide a bunch of mostly irrelevant voltage readings, check fuses, looks for signs of burned components, and so on to get warranty satisfaction). Jason On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:21 PM Kirk Herander <vtso...@icloud.com<mailto:vtso...@icloud.com>> wrote: I gave up on Enphase a long time ago for the same reasons many of you are dumping on SE now. High replacement rate etc. Any of you in this biz longer than ten years knows how horrible the first several generations of Enphase was. So should I trust Enphase over SE now? Will you trust SE years from now if this board finds them acceptable again(over Enphase)? Just sayin' On 7/23/2020 6:30:29 PM, Jason Szumlanski <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com<mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>> wrote: Not to sounds like a Fanboy, but Enphase in a small commercial setting is a real option. Owners love the monitoring aspect, the serviceability, the warranty, etc. There is a good safety argument to be made. Replacing micros on a flat roof is usually a cakewalk if necessary. Dealing with roof-mounted equipment shading issues makes micros a good option if optimizers are off the table. I'm adding an 80kW Enphase IQ array to an existing M-series 70kW system very soon. Here's Phase 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvXyGiUlALw<https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/e751a37842810815eebed2dcb8996de5e874c36b?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEvXyGiUlALw&userId=1613865&signature=2848ab88f4cdf79b> This one is 208Y/120. For 480V you're looking at a transformer, which changes the calculus. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:06 PM AE Solar <autonomousenerg...@gmail.com<mailto:autonomousenerg...@gmail.com>> wrote: interested to know if folks are having issues with specific models or it's all across the board? if it's all across the board, i (like jay) would be interested to know what people are moving on towards. especially for smaller commercial 3phase projects. adam On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 11:57 AM MiJo Nels <spaceshipnels...@gmail.com<mailto:spaceshipnels...@gmail.com>> wrote: We also, have found this to be the case. Now I feel like I'm in a bad marriage with them. We consistantly wait longer than we are told for replacement product, constantly hearing the same repetitious verbiage from them "just wait a little longer, we'll be able to control your coffee maker with your inverter soon".. or the old "Q1 Q2 Q3" promises for equipment or to get thru beta testing.. .. I too. . . am "Done". . . Joe Nelson Project Manager C-46/C-10 Sustainable Energy Group Inc., A California Corporation CSL# 868816 www.SustainableEnergyGroup.com<https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/9fa79d6b286a111ff2d4afa54a50160524e514d2?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.SustainableEnergyGroup.com&userId=1613865&signature=8bb70314c3338aaa> 530-273-4422 (Office) 530-217-8385 (Cell)      ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> on behalf of Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com<mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 7:47:31 AM To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge...continuous saga of 181/183 hardware failures...moving on to another inverter. Hi Scot and others I’ve heard these horror stories about SE What is the best replacement for SE at this point? Thanks Jay On Jul 23, 2020, at 5:57 AM, scot.a...@solarcentex.com<mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> wrote: Time has finally come to move on from SolarEdge. Now replacing the THIRD inverter for one customer alone that has the infamous 181/183 hardware failure error code again. First one replaced in Sept 2019. Second failure and RMA July 6th 2020, and now this third failure on that replacement inverter. We have had 24 total RMAs at quick count and it is eating into our credibility. Solar Edge provided a briefing to me about two months ago acknowledging that their manufacturing quality control issues bordered on a recall, but opted to stay silent and let the installers keep suffering for their materiel and design issues. I was advised that the batch of deficient inverters and their manufacture time frame meant I just needed to get through this summer…perhaps but not another summer ever like this. No more. 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