Deadline for 2023 NEC® public input is in September. Brian
> On Apr 30, 2020, at 7:12 AM, Ray <r...@solarray.com> wrote: > > > Hi Jerry; > > This isn't about us not being willing to learn the tech. All of us are > constantly learning about new code changes, new inverters, and solar modules > that change specs every few months. We are voluntarily adopting new > technology (like Lithium Ion batteries) when that technology is cost > effective and reliable. > > To continue your smart phone analogy, the current situation is like forcing > people in the country to give up their hard lines, when their is only spotty > 3G service available in their area. Its not that we are Luddites; the > equipment is still not quite ready for prime time. Having some basic > exemptions for small, lower voltage systems off grid is not unreasonable. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 >> On 4/30/20 2:33 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote: >> Wrenches >> We are taking two very different issues and mixing them together. RSD and >> Arc-fault are different, arc fault will and does prevent fires, RSD was >> brought out of the need to vent a roof that even with the meter pulled have >> 500 volts and resulted shocks to fire fighters by cutting into roofs or >> nearby conduite. This is fact not conjecture. >> Arc fault is a fire preventer but requires nothing on the roof when using >> string level inverters. Now both RSD and arc-fault in off grid increase the >> complexity but the new charge controllers fit the arc and Tigo fixes the RSD >> issues. >> I know everyone of you learned to use a smart phone and can now adapt again >> to this new tech, we have to be leaders in this industry and not well you >> know. >> Jerry >> NABCEP PV Inspector. >> Been in this industry since 1978 >> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 6:57 PM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi Drake >>> >>> I will disagree, there have been many roof top fires. >>> >>> But regardless we have to do these new regulations and I for one welcome >>> the safety. >>> >>> The main issue is accessing the faulty/suspect component under the module >>> possibly requiring removing multiple modules, a slow and expensive process. >>> >>> My technique is to install the MLPE at the edges of the array, using wire >>> extensions. That way at most I have to remove a single module. And Im >>> working on a drop bracket which would allow better cooling and easier >>> access without module removal to the MLPE, greatly reducing time to swap. >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> Peltz Power. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:59 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Clearly, rapid shutdown increases cost and reduces reliability. Given the >>>> excellent safety record of PV, prior to rapid shutdown being required, it >>>> is unnecessary. The few anecdotal incidents of PV fires were not enough to >>>> justify the requirement, especially on smaller systems. >>>> >>>> According to a friend who worked for a local installation company that >>>> went under, a big part of the reason for their failure was the chronic >>>> replacement of microinverters and optimizers. >>>> >>>> What steps can be taken to create some balance in the rapid shutdown >>>> requirements that are in the NEC? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 2020-04-29 07:27, Sky Sims wrote: >>>>> >>>>> So far rapid shutdown has been a nightmare. It's added a lot of cost for >>>>> no measurable benefit. >>>>> Using always off devices like midnight solar and Tigo makes it impossible >>>>> to test open circuit voltages. Which opens the door to tons of problems >>>>> when commissioning systems. >>>>> Also we've been trying out midnight Solar's product and have had an >>>>> absurd failure rate. Which means lots of truck rolls and troubleshooting >>>>> and system downtime. They send replacement product but they aren't paying >>>>> for the lost weeks of productivity. >>>>> We have Tigo product in hand and are deciding which project to try it on. >>>>> But our big concern about using it is not only the inability to confirm >>>>> open circuit voltage of the strings but also the way panels bypass if the >>>>> device doesn't allow the panel to connect properly. Both of these >>>>> features are a recipe for problems and potential troubleshooting >>>>> nightmares. The warranty from Tigo doesn't cover our expense if the >>>>> product fails. And that's really what our reservations about the product >>>>> boil down to right now. If we're on a job with 50 units and one fails, >>>>> the contractor or the homeowner will be the ones eating the expense of >>>>> finding it and replacing it. There has to be a better option. >>>>> >>>>> Sky Sims >>>>> Https://EcologicalSystems.biz >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 7:46 PM, Corey Shalanski <coreso...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Now that 690.12 of the NEC 2017 has been in effect for several years, I >>>>>> am curious how designers and installers are meeting the associated >>>>>> requirements with string inverter-based systems (*not* considering >>>>>> microinverters or DC optimizers). I am generally a fan of the KISS >>>>>> principle, and as best I can determine the Tigo TS4-F device is one of >>>>>> the simplest options currently available on the market. What are others >>>>>> finding? >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd love to hear about favored options for complying with rapid >>>>>> shutdown. Any success stories? or better yet, any early failures? >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Corey Shalanski >>>>>> Jah Light Solar >>>>>> Portland, Jamaica >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List-Archive: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List-Archive: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
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