" I am looking forward to the migration away from Lead Acid in the years ahead! "
i gotta reply (off list) to this. as i have said before, i LOVE my flooded lead calcium wet cells. no, they aren't sexy li-ons, but they are proven technology for my grid-tied with battery backup application. this is what the telecom and industrial hydro plants have been using for ever. i should easily get 20+ years out of these. (the used set i got from our hydro plant went 30). i eq every 6 months, i add water (about 20 ml/ cell) every other year. their self discharge is around 1 kWh/month and they just sit there waiting for an outage. the only issue is these are not designed for a lot of cycling, which in a grid tied application they won't be doing much of. our grid outages are just a couple of times a year, usually during the kick-ass winter storms we (used to) get. i guess i am an old fart who doesn't always think newer and more high tech is better and i hope to still be able to get another set of these in ~20 years... if i am still alive! :) todd On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:02am, "Kirpal" <[email protected]> said: Larry....yes those are big claims (8000 cyclces at 100% DOD!) No I don't have the data showing that, nor have I seen it. But the marketing has to be accurate right?! We have installed a few systems with a few more on the books including one at our office. Will be interesting to see if the real world matches the lab tests....I don't have a copy of their warranty but it is for 15 years and does allow for some degradation of capacity, 70% remaining after 15 years. Pretty robust for a battery warranty! From what I have seen they are a strong off grid option. Could be one of the last battery banks some of our customers ever buy. The visibility into cycle count and remaining capacity is refreshing after using various amp hour meters which tend to wander in accuracy over time. I am looking forward to the migration away from Lead Acid in the years ahead! Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Oregon Solarworks LLC [ www.oregonsolarworks.com ]( http://www.oregonsolarworks.com ) 541-299-0402 On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems <[ [email protected] ]( mailto:[email protected] )> wrote: Hi Kirpal, “...8000 cycles (20+ years of daily cycling!!) to 100 depth of discharge…” I saw that on their website but there is no substantiating data from real cycle life tests. When Sony introduced this battery, they claimed 2000 cycles at 80% DoD. For such an extraordinary claim, there must be a catch. Do you have any information about testing or a copy of their warranty? Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Feb 19, 2018, at 4:10 PM, Kirpal <[ [email protected] ]( mailto:[email protected] )> wrote: Blue Planet - Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are a good option for off grid and work very well with the Outback Radian inverters. They are rated at 8000 cycles (20+ years of daily cycling!!) to 100 depth of discharge and can be monitored remotely. The batteries , like in the Sonnen system are made by Sony. The company was just down in PR doing some installs and had some very good feedback from local installers. One more option for the tool bag. Also, Outback just released a white paper on AC coupling using a solid state relay into the Radian. So they are now providing some guidance on this as of just recently. I still prefer DC coupling with grid tied mode when the grid does come back around. Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Oregon Solarworks LLC [ www.oregonsolarworks.com ]( http://www.oregonsolarworks.com/ ) [ 541-299-0402 ]( tel:(541)%20299-0402 ) On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:14 AM, Ray <[ [email protected] ]( mailto:[email protected] )> wrote: Greetings Wrenches; We are designing several systems for Puerto Rico, and while these will eventually could be grid tied once the grid returns, they will need to operate reliably in off grid mode possibly for a year or more. What is everyone's experiences with the Storedge and LG setup? I've worked with the regular Solaredge GT system and was quite impressed, but I've heard the Storedge is not a good off grid option. What are the issues, and has anyone used the Storedge in longer term outages? Right now we are designing some smaller systems that will use Magnum inverters with 24v and 48 v Li+ batteries from other manufacturers, like Simpliphi and LiFe Blue. ( No GT, Backup only) These are lower cost and allow us to use more traditional off grid designs, but also have limited charge and discharge current. In order to make Li+ cost effective, we have had to reduce the storage size in half compared to lead acid. We feel this is justifiable considering Li+'s ability to be discharged to 100%, its voltage stability, and its higher efficiency. All feed back is welcome, as we venture into less well charted territory. We just don't want to set up systems that are going to not be functional in 5 to 8 years because of inferior AGM lead acid batteries. We use HUP batteries for most larger off grid systems, but these are not feasible because of their size and maintenance requirements. 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