My own thoughts about geometry changes: When the 2024 Appaloosa came out, I was slightly anxious that it made my new, 2023 model redundant. "But it's slacker now", I thought, "so it'll be better on trails! And I ride trails!" But then that thought passed, and I rode the bike. And I rode it some more. And I realised it is actually great on trails, and off them. And my model handles fantastically with a loaded-up front basket, which, who knows, might be due to the steeper head angle!
All this is to say that continual tweaks to geometry are a good thing and I love to see continual improvement. The new Atlantis will ride great, as I'm sure the old one did, as does the Appaloosa (of all forms) and the Clem H. They're great bikes! I'll finish with the text from the Atlantis product description, which hasn't changed from when I got my older-geo Appaloosa: *The Atlantis wheelbase is about three to four percent longer. In theory, the Atlantis will feel smoother, less reactive. In practice, any difference you might feel in a side-by-side test is far more likely to come from the bar, stem, and wheels. * *Both fit tires up to 2.3 inches fairly comfortably.* *The Atlantis top tube is about a centimeter or two longer than the top tube on the closest-sized Appaloosa. That makes it marginally better for swept-back handlebars. I have both bikes, set up similarly, and I can't tell ANY difference.* On Tuesday 22 October 2024 at 07:37:32 UTC+10:30 bmfo...@gmail.com wrote: > Here's to hoping the 55mm tire clearance on that chart will be updated. > The most recent atlantis took 2.4s, right? Seems like they wouldn't go back > down from there. > > I'd love to see an Atlantis w/ clearance for 29x2.6. But maybe that's just > a gus/susie > > On Monday, October 21, 2024 at 3:47:43 PM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote: > >> On Sunday, October 20, 2024 at 5:24:47 PM UTC-6 Josh C wrote: >> >> Sounds like you're describing a fully lugged Clem, no? >> >> >> I think this question was to me? Yes, that's what I want - but I guess >> what I'm arguing is that the new Atlantis basically IS a fully-lugged >> version of the first Clem. Just with a couple of refinements - those being >> a slacker head angle and slightly-shorter-but-still-long chainstays. >> >> (I hope I'm not offending RBWQH asserting this. Once again, I think it's >> really great. For people with normal proportions, it's perfect. In my >> case, all I'd want to do is personalize a few dimensions for fit purposes >> only. It would be easier if I didn't prefer the rigidity and aesthetics >> of the diamond frame, I guess, and the current Clem L might even be great.) >> >> It isn't that surprising that things evolved this way, in retrospect. >> Remembering well the first discussion and germination of the Clem idea - >> not unlike the Bombadil and Hunquapillar before it - the goal was to create >> a kind of an homage or throwback to older, analog ATBs from the 1980s, >> before they all got twitchy race geometries and were all built around >> suspension forks. The most significant differnece being some subtle >> changes to make them more comfortable - like lower bbs and taller >> headtubes. >> >> The Clem added a few additional criteria though: Less expensive to >> build; Less likely to get targeted by thieves; Using-up some lugs from an >> abandoned project. But I feel like it ALSO served as a platform for trying >> out a bunch of new ideas that ended up being wildly successful: Super-long >> chainstays, in lenghts that were *proportional* to the rest of the >> frame; Even longer top tubes to work with the newish-at-the-time, >> ultra-swept-back Bosco bar. >> >> It's wonderful but not surprising how successful and popular the Clem has >> gone on to be. But as it blazed it's own path, it also sort of morphed >> into something a bit different. Like the best, most-comfortable and >> most-useful town bike ever, for lack of another category. To me, that left >> the original ATB-concept model slot - the thing I most want - kind of >> missing in the lineup. Gus and Susie are (were) great but, as someone who >> has a Susie and an early Clem, and who came of age along with the first >> mountain bikes, they're almost too MUCH "mountain bike" for a daily-rider, >> do-everything (i.e.: All-Rounder) bike. >> >> Those early ATBs were so popular for a reason. They WERE All-rounders, >> in the truest sense, and got the masses on bikes for the first time. At >> least where I live. Elsewhere, there was the 70s 10-speed boom, I guess. >> Even people who didn't live in the mountains like I did bought them. You >> could ride them all day, ride them anywhere, take them on tours, ride fast, >> or ride slow. I moved my dad into senior living recently, and his old >> Stumpjumper is is still in his garage, and I can't bring myself to move it >> or get rid of it. I like remembering that these bikes even got my parents >> out riding! >> >> Other funny thing is that after that, and once NORBA ruined things, ATB >> bikes actually became more "road" bike than "mountain" bike for a long, >> long while. Plenty light, plenty "quick." They just weren't comfortable. >> So why couldn't the Atlantis be more like an improvement of the original >> ATB idea than a strict "road touring" bike? >> >> If/when I finally order a custom, my plan has long been to tell Grant to >> "start from my Clem and make these changes...." The new Atlantis just >> seems so close to what I would do, it almost seems pointless or extravegent >> to consider now. The Appaloosa is obviously similar and, who knows, I may >> even like it better if it were possible to try both. Or if I had to own >> one bike only. And there's a size that would fit better. But, since I >> can't try them, I have to rely on my preference for longer/lower bikes, >> developed from riding and getting accustomed to them. To my original point >> though: The longer Atlantis now just seems as close, if not closer, to the >> original Clem than it does the Appaloosa. >> >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0a61f821-af47-469a-add0-e87557c79e15n%40googlegroups.com.
