Jon asked that I post this for him since he is new and being moderated, so his replies don't post immediately.
"Well, since I am new to the group and still being moderated, this will probably not get posted until long after everyone has laughed at me for the question, but: I realised after posting that the information on bikeinsights, specifically the top tube angle, had been computed from a mis-entered top tube length of 60 *mm* instead of 60 cm!! That's where the 12 degrees surely comes from. I made the post over a week ago, and realised the source of the mistake the following day and emailed the moderator to request that my post not to forwarded to the list, and I suspect this follow-up will take a couple of weeks to get approved too. Now, since I mentioned the issue on bikeinsights to my dealer, he prodded them and they fixed the top tube length in the data but they did not fix the computed top tube slope, which still says 12 degrees. So this is a separate (and mistaken) issue than the updated geometry for the MIT frames since 2018, which I understand. All is well and I expect to take delivery of my 6-degree-slope AHH in a few weeks! (The dealer got the last of the 58-cm frames at RBW when it was announced that dealers may not get deliveries this spring as planned). I've been planning the build, am very excited and will post again when I really am a RBW owner." Best - Jon in Montreal On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 10:10:55 AM UTC-8 iamkeith wrote: > John, > > I have this protractor ap on my android phone. It's great for measuring > frame angles: > > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kr.sira.protractor > > I't would be interesting to know what your bike actually measures out to - > though I agree that the surest thing would be for O.P. Jon to just call > Rivendell and ask. Also, do I understand that you have a Sam rather than a > Homer? > > Keith (who is simply curious about understanding design changes over time > but, because he has a Saluki, has no need for a Homer or a Sam of his own.) > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 10:37:20 AM UTC-7 John G. wrote: > >> Hi there, >> >> Maybe I can reassure you. I'm also a "level top tube" kind of guy who >> just took delivery of my 2021 Homer Complete. I had the same second >> thoughts as you when I checked BikeInsights after ordering my Homer. I'm >> right in the middle of the size range for a 58, but I could've scraped by >> on a 61.5. >> >> Based on what I'm seeing in front of me in my garage, I'd be very >> surprised if the new Homer's top tube angle is actually 11 degrees. It >> really doesn't look that steep. I think it looks exactly like most of the >> Sams I've seen. The frame in general looks very balanced and composed. >> >> I absolutely love mine, which I've set up as a brevet bike. The ride >> quality and handling are both outstanding. It's plenty fast, too. I don't >> think I'll ever go back to shorter chainstay Riv after this. I'm a convert. >> >> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 12:18:26 PM UTC-5 cycli...@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >>> I am 99% certain that both the AHH and Sam have 6 degree TT slope. >>> However, could not hurt to call Riv and discuss. They are very helpful on >>> the phone, and Grant himself might even be the one picking up the phone. >>> Has happened to me a couple times. >>> >>> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 8:40:56 AM UTC-8 Jeremy Till wrote: >>> >>>> The updated geometry probably isn't noted on the current website >>>> because it's actually been in place for a few years--since 2018 at least, >>>> since the 2018 print catalog >>>> <https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/2018_Rivendell_Frame_Catalog.pdf?18216627747902060761> >>>> shows >>>> the new geometry. The change to the top tube slope isn't the only change, >>>> the biggest other change being longer chainstays, especially the larger >>>> sizes. It's part of a general revamp of Rivendell's geometries across the >>>> board--the same thing happened with the Atlantis, which along with the >>>> Homer is pretty much the only "legacy" model they still make, albeit with >>>> a >>>> lot of changes. >>>> >>>> I, for one, see the reasoning behind the changes (better stability and >>>> weight distribution, especially when sitting upright), and would encourage >>>> you to give the new geometry a try. At the same time, I own bikes with >>>> both >>>> the "new" Riv geometry (Clem Smith Jr) and the "classic" Riv geometry >>>> (Rambouillet), and can understand that if you were expecting the latter >>>> and >>>> got the former, how that would be a bit shocking. >>>> >>>> -Jeremy Till >>>> Sacramento, CA >>>> >>>> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 7:35:13 AM UTC-8 J. W. wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi everyone, this is my first post to this forum. After years of >>>>> coveting a Riv, I ordered a Homer and my dealer expects delivery this >>>>> spring. As I was just checking geometry to make sure I have a stem of the >>>>> right length ready for my reach, I noticed that the 2021 model has a >>>>> considerably steeper slope to the top tube (looks like almost 12 degrees, >>>>> compared to 6, if bikeinsights has it right). I'm a bit shocked, as I >>>>> hadn't realised there would be such a difference, and I hadn't read >>>>> anything about any big changes (I know they posted the measurements, and >>>>> it's on me for not doing due diligence, but I would have thought such a >>>>> big >>>>> change would have warranted mention on the Riv site, with maybe their >>>>> thinking on why, and perhaps some comparison photos). All my visual >>>>> reference for what I had to look forward to is now out of date and of >>>>> course I'm second-guessing myself, maybe I should have ordered a Sam >>>>> instead -- I'm mostly a one-bike-at-a-time guy and my current bike, which >>>>> I've ridden for a long time, has a horizontal tube, and I felt 6 degrees >>>>> was already a big step for me. But, by looking at and admiring a lot of >>>>> people's builds I came to see the slight slope as a good thing and I >>>>> embraced my 6-degree-slopey future, step boldly into the future etc. >>>>> >>>>> Looking at the current photos on the Riv site, the Homer and the Sam >>>>> have exactly the same top-tube slope (if you compare the pictures taken >>>>> in >>>>> profile they have models that line up perfectly -- switching back and >>>>> forth >>>>> between tabs, once I got them lined up, shows that they are close to >>>>> identical), and they say there that the photos represent the 2021 >>>>> geometry. >>>>> So what's going on? If the stack has been increased by as much as the >>>>> dimensions in the chart say, there's no way that those photos represent >>>>> the >>>>> 2021 geometry accurately. I don't know what to do now! >>>>> >>>>> What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> Jon >>>>> >>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2336f4b7-1976-4bb1-b58c-3ce970936888n%40googlegroups.com.
