Well Dave, I thought you added a bit more than, cultural differences,and people confuse them, that's it. You went on to add that they have their thing and you have yours and what's the big deal--"*different cultures gravitate to different things, and there's nothing wrong with it. It's just the way it is.*"
It comes off as though, hey, everyone had an equal chance at this smorgasbord of different activities, and blacks gravitated to x, y, and z, not a, b, or c, because of black culture. Cool, no problem, just the way it is. Except not exactly, right. Some activities were "easier" to break the racial barrier in, some, not so "easy." To my ears your statement is cavalier. To say that I "peeled layers to tease out some specific factors" is a bit disingenuous, making it sound like semantic contortions were necessary to make some fairly obvious points. Any meaningful discussions of race are going to mostly encompass "culture," not genetic differences between races. No, you did not say black people don't like riding bikes. You said *"So there aren't many black cyclists---so what? It's not their thing. They have other things."* You mentioned Grant's "issue" with this, but said you don't share his concern. Grant is a public person who runs a company that presents a certain image to the world. So he is in a different position. He is also someone who tries to incorporate his beliefs into his business. It's a tricky thing to try to tackle the issues around race in this regard, perhaps most so when you happen to be a white guy, and it may be ill-advised and he has certainly drawn flack for his ruminations on catalog shots and reparations. But it's one of the ways to start some dialog, despite possible false starts or receiving ire. When I was publishing my cycling magazine in the 1990s, I thought about this a bit. I had some variety on my cover and in my content that skewed in favor of under-represented cyclists--i.e, anyone who was not a youngish white guy**. I never kept score, it happened mostly organically as good stories presented themselves, but looking back, the count ended up 4 white guys (two of the same guy, local legend Mike McCarthy) 5 white females, 4 black guys (including Messenger 29, a comic character) 1 black girl (M29s daughter, Kyla, also a comic character), a white male-female couple, 2 Hispanic guys (on one cover) and possibly 1 transgender person (which I was clueless about until someone told me later) and one crowd melting pot shot from the 5 Boro Tour. *****(For the record, I don't have angst or guilt over being a white guy, and the little I've heard about reparations doesn't sound like a good idea or very feasible on a number of fronts)* *Some photos of the covers and a few inside pages here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/YKsMN2sx6wgPPvjJ6 <https://photos.app.goo.gl/YKsMN2sx6wgPPvjJ6>* On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 9:24:23 PM UTC-4, Dave Small wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > My stance is that differences attributed to race are often differences in > culture. That's it. They're cultural differences, not racial differences. > You peeled a couple of layers away from that to tease out some specific > factors that might *create* cultural differences, and I don't disagree > with them. Your points about football and basketball versus golf et al. > are good ones and are probably valid, but my point wasn't to dissect the > *reasons* for differences, only to point out that they *exist* and that > people confuse them. > No > > Interesting, by the way, that you mentioned Major Taylor given his > environment growing up. A lone example doesn't prove anything, but it's > consistent with my premise. > > By the way, I didn't say black people don't like riding bikes, but I think > you already know that. > > Dave > Boston/Indy > > > On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 6:53:12 AM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote: >> >> >> Dave Small wrote: >> *"**The purported paucity of black cyclists is a cultural phenomenon, >> not a racial phenomenon....So there aren't many black cyclists---so what? >> It's not their thing. They have other things. Their things aren't my >> things, and they're not trying to get me involved in their things because >> they're their things and they don't care that they're not my things, >> too.... It's just the way it is..."* >> >> So your stance is, black people as a group just don't like riding bikes, >> because, "black culture". Maybe. But you have to take into account the fact >> that "cultures" overlap, interact, and affect one another when they exist >> in the same country--a country that for a portion of its history allowed >> members of one race to own members of another race. The first iteration of >> the League of American Wheelmen banned non-white cyclists in 1894, in part >> due to the success of Major Taylor. >> >> *"Most NBA and NFL players are black, but few hockey players, race car >> drivers, or professional golfers are...."* >> >> Again, your supposition is this is because blacks in general just don't >> care much for hockey, car racing, or golf. However, basketball and >> football are public school sports, and can also be played with a minimum of >> equipment outside of institutional settings. Hockey and golf are >> historically more the purview of prep schools. The economic opportunities >> that blacks have often been excluded from mean they are not as >> well-represented at these private institutions. Race car driving has a >> strong Southern background, which may or may not mean something. I bet you >> could look into it. Golf has an interesting "cultural" past that may have >> influenced black culture in the U.S.: >> https://www.complex.com/sports/2011/06/the-most-racist-moments-in-golf-history/kelly-tilghman >> >> >> >> Still seems to be happening in places: >> >> https://www.golf.com/tour-news/2018/04/26/fallout-continues-alleged-discriminatory-golf-course-incident >> >> >> *Really, there's much ado about nothing here. ..* >> >> Well, I would not speak for others as to whether or not this is true. >> Perhaps you are right. I think discussions about race are a good thing. But >> probably more useful when everyone is at the table. >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9e1c711b-e081-42f4-ac60-6d6ac3f78dbc%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
