Customs, IIRC, 57 but with upsloping tts. I may have lost a good opportunity to keep a well fitting bike. But there were other things I didn't like about the Sam, so, all in all, not a real loss to me. (If the samecould have taken 50s with fenders, it would have been dreamy ...)
On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Bill Lindsay <[email protected]> wrote: > Since your Sam had a reach that was within a couple mm of your customs, > it's odd that you couldn't get it to fit, but water under the bridge. I > think your customs have a 56.5cm TT with a 73 degree STA. Your Sam had a > 59cm TT, but with a 71.5 degree STA, you should have had your saddle an > inch forward (2.5cm), and so the reach should have been identical. Oh well. > > Front center is the distance from the BB center to the front axle center. > It includes TT length, seat tube angle, head tube angle, fork length, fork > rake, and BB drop. It comprehends steering geometry and weight > distribution components. > > Bill > > On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 5:34:19 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: >> >> Bill: Interesting; I'd like to hear more about f-c and how it affects >> handling, if anyone has something to add. >> >> About saddle position, top tube length, bar height, and, generally, >> optimizing riding position on my erstwhile 56 cm Sam: I have long since >> codified my saddle-to-bb-and-to-tips-of-brake-hoods relationships. With >> the Sam, I did indeed mitigate the tt length by moving the saddle forward >> on the rails; I forget by how much, but it was considerable. But even with >> the saddle using less of the rails than identical saddles on my 73* sta >> custom roads, I had to raise the bar too high for comfort to get a suitable >> reach. >> >> Aside: With these 73* sta customs, and Original Issue Flites, I (really!) >> used to use a rubber mallet to pound the saddle nose and get them as >> *faaar* back as possible. Recently -- age? -- I found my hamstrings >> aching with seated, high-ish torque pedaling (I ride fixed), and I've >> bumped the saddles forward on both about 1/4" on the rails, and adjusted >> the tilt accordingly. >> >> Another aside: I'd like to hear others' thoughts of lowering stems, thus >> adding weight to the front wheel, and how this affects handling, in >> particular, the "grounded" feel that Rivs have when you transition from >> straight line to turn. >> >> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Bill Lindsay <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Patrick asked what parameter GP was referring to, over trail: >>> >>> I suspect Grant may be referring to front center. I don't know for >>> sure. It's just a guess >>> >>> Patrick, how did you position your saddle on the rails of your >>> Hillborne? Your Hillborne had a far slacker seat tube angle than any of >>> your customs, so I assume you slid your saddle much farther forward (about >>> an inch by my calculations) to make them equivalent. Is that what you did? >>> >>> >>> Bill Lindsay >>> El Cerrito CA >>> >>> On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 4:23:22 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: >>>> >>>> A very good interview, with some real words of bicycle-design-wisdom >>>> from Grant; and yes, thanks for posting this. >>>> >>>> Y'know, Grant has always been, as far as I've ever been able to read >>>> him, a contrarian, and I really like that. But my likes aside, this >>>> contrarian streak has resulted in wonderful bikes precisely because he >>>> bucks trends, as in the "woman specific" design and "need to clear 2' >>>> obstacle" idea. *And* I've often thought that Mt. Diablo influenced >>>> Rivendell bike design. >>>> >>>> (I do think Grant downplays top tube length too much; I'm not the only >>>> one who has sold a Riv because the tt was just to damned long. Sometimes >>>> you like to have your bar in a particular spot with respect to the saddle, >>>> and playing with bar height then does not serve to compensate for a less >>>> than ideal top tube length. But I gather that Grant has cut tt length on >>>> some Sams. But he's right that you can't look at tt length in isolation >>>> from multiple other variables.) >>>> >>>> "I’m pretty happy with the way Rivendell has shaped up and gone." I >>>> recall a long ago statement in another interview where G said, "We are >>>> product driven, not market driven."Because of this, and because, simply, I >>>> liked Riv bikes, I wrote a paper on Rivendell for my MBA marketing class >>>> citing Riv as an honorable commercial enterprise in the face of (I recall >>>> this bullshit from the time: HP talking about "*perceptions* of >>>> value": don't give me perceptions, give me value!) And the paper was a good >>>> one, though the marketing classes were largely useless. But I believe that >>>> it is precisely this product integrity that has made Rivendell, whose >>>> chances of success in this horrible, shark-like world of competitive >>>> commerce were minimal, in fact succeed and, more, modestly prosper -- and >>>> this while paying honest wages and benefits to builders and shop staff. >>>> >>>> And nice words on trail! But what is this pointing to? >>>> >>>> Also, there’s another steering/bike handling parameter that probably >>>> matters more, although it’s far less well-known than trail is. Everybody at >>>> Rivendell knows what it is, we have a name for it, and all of our bikes are >>>> designed with it in mind. That’s true whether it’s me designing a new >>>> model, or Will or Roman or Mark working on a limited-run Rosco Bubbe. >>>> Everybody here knows, but I’m not going to say what it is, because it’s >>>> another can of worms, and it’ll attract the meanest mathematicians and >>>> physicists on the internet. Why do that? >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. >> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. >> Other professional writing services. >> http://www.resumespecialties.com/ >> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten >> ************************************************************ >> **************************** >> *Interested in trading resume, LinkedIn, and other writing work for >> professional (professional) help with marketing and growing my resumes, >> etc. business. Respondents should have considerable experience in helping >> small, online businesses grow. Please contact me at >> [email protected]. Thanks.* >> >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten ************************************************************************** ************** *Interested in trading resume, LinkedIn, and other writing work for professional (professional) help with marketing and growing my resumes, etc. business. Respondents should have considerable experience in helping small, online businesses grow. Please contact me at [email protected] <[email protected]>. Thanks.* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
