On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 7:03:59 PM UTC-8, Mark in Beacon wrote: > > The reason for devising it has little to do with practicality and much to > do with the way our economy is set up, as well as the law of diminishing > returns and a number of other interesting factors. When TSHTF, and your > electronic shifting gizmo goes on the fritz, good luck finding someone who > A. knows how to fix it, and B. can source parts. But at that point, > e-shifts will likely not be one of your top 100 concerns, so don't fret! >
I think that's already happened! Shimano abandoned its 1st gen Dura Ace di2 and parts are no longer available. Shimano didn't sell many of these groups and just sacrificed those that had to be the first on the block to have it! I had a friend with this group and I think it was his RD that broke. It was either spending really big bucks for a NOS one from ebay (like over $500) or get a new Ultegra di2 group, which is much more robust with the 4 wires instead of 2. He ended up junking the system and is now riding Sram Red mechanical. Note, the current generation of Ultegra di2 is bombproof and considered the standard. DA saves a little weight, but the cost difference makes just about everyone in my group choose Ultegra di2. Campy EPS? Almost none existent. I've seen it only in shops and at least my LBS, which sells lots of the latest bikes, says they only sold a few. The new kid on the block is Sram Etap. It's wireless and expensive. But so far, appears to be holding up. There are some reports of battery tabs breaking, but it sounds like user error as one guy was cleaning his bike with some sort of degreaser that was weakening the tab! So, if you really NEED etap (I like it!), make sure you DON"T clean your bike with a degreaser! > > On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 7:33:40 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: >> >> No, the *question *was whether e shifting *reduced* mis-shifts, and >> whether this *reduction* was the *reason* for devising it. >> >> I'm afraid Steve is right; you've not stated any good reason for electric >> shifting except cosmetic, and in my book, that's a pretty modest reason for >> an entirely new system. >> >> Now, I personally rather like the idea of getting rid of cams and cables >> and pinch bolts and using servomechs to shift. After all, once you take the >> indexing step, then the matter of skill is out the door, and you might as >> well choose the simpler and more reliable system. >> >> But that's back to my question: is electric shifting more reliable and >> more simple? Will the stuff last as long as STI? >> >> So, once again *(please read carefully!)*: What is, or what are, the >> reasons for switching to batteries and servo motors? >> >> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Brewster Fong <bfd...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>>> >>> Agree. But the concern was whether e-shifting leads to "mis-shifts." In >>> my group, I haven't notice it. >>> >>>> >>>> Unlike the old Mavic Zap stuff from the 90s, this stuff really works. >>>> There's basically tiny computers controlling the shifting. Most people I >>>> know have Shimano ultegra di2 and love it. But the one guy with Sram etap >>>> loves it too and in fact, upgraded his second bike to it. The best thing >>>> about etap is there's no wires. So if you like your bike to look like a >>>> track bike with only brakes cables, then this is the system for you! In >>>> contrast, Shimano di2 does require wires, but many frames, especially >>>> carbon ones, are being designed to hide the battery and control boxes. Add >>>> in a Garmin to track everything and being able to upload your latest time >>>> and you're set! >>>> >>>> One interesting thing that I notice is you see with all these guys with >>>> major cross chain where you're in the big cog in the back and big >>>> chainring >>>> at the same time. Further, with 11 speeds, you can get 50/34 chainrings >>>> and >>>> 11-32 in the rear. So, you see guys riding in their 50t big ring and 32t >>>> rear cog, with no noise or protest from the system! With di2, there's no >>>> rubbing either as the FD "automatically" shifts to avoid any noise. Now is >>>> it good for the life of the chain? Who cares, everything is done >>>> effortlessly! >>>> >>>> >>>> You've neglected to mention, with integrated brake/shift levers you're >>>> limited in how much adjustment you can make of the front derailleur to >>>> avoid rubbing (unlike friction shifters, where you can position the FD >>>> anywhere you like). So that gives back something that was lost when they >>>> went to STI. >>>> >>> >>> Ah, but you're limiting yourself to one system! Yes, Shimano STI >>> shifters are positional and have limited amount of trim. Sram double tap is >>> positional too. They both also require specific shifters if you want to use >>> a triple versus a double crank. However, Campy ergo front shifting is a >>> rachet and has multiple positions so you can shift either a triple of >>> double. It's almost like friction shifting. >>> >>> The last is Sram etap. It is also positional as you have to shift both >>> levers at once to go from big ring to small ring and visa versa. But my >>> buddy loves it and says he has never had a mis-shift. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If you don't have guys in your group with e-shifting, shame on you! No, >>>> seriously, go down to a LBS and check it out. Go to the big boys - >>>> Trek/Specialized/C'dale/Giant. You'll see the latest! The big thing in my >>>> group that got everyone drooling is etap with hydraulic disc brakes. >>>> Simply >>>> amazing....Good Luck! >>>> >>>> >>>> Other than trimming the front derailleur, you haven't give a genuine >>>> reason to do so. The fact that it works isn't enough: cable shifting >>>> works >>>> too, and costs thousands less without requiring charging a battery. >>>> Being "new" is insufficient; you really need to show "better." And >>>> that you haven't done. >>>> >>> >>> I'm not trying to show "better." What I like about etap is the look. No >>> derailleur cables! Very clean look and once they have e-braking, no cables >>> at all! ;) If I had the money, this Mark DiNucci would be on my list >>> (click the picture for the slideshow): >>> >>> >>> http://theradavist.com/2016/02/2016-nahbs-dinucci-classic-road-with-sram-red-etap/#1 >>> >>> As for pricing, yes etap is pricey as the basic shifters, FD, RD and >>> charger is about $1200-1600 and complete group is about $2000-2500. But >>> that's similar to mechanical Campy SR/DA 9100/Sram Red. The most popular >>> Shimano Ultegra 11 di2 can be found for under $1000 from the UK. Yes, you >>> can get other gruppos for less - Ultegra 11 mechanical can be found for >>> about $500-600 and 105 11 speed which is probably 85% of DA can be found >>> around $400-500. >>> >>> So if you're happy with your shifting and don't want to try anything >>> new, keep going! Hey, I'm still have 9 speed and both my bikes (Calfee >>> carbon and LItespeed ti) are over 20 years old! Although I will admit that >>> if I get something new, I'm probably going to give etap a try. :0 Good >>> Luck! >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. >> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. >> Other professional writing services. >> http://www.resumespecialties.com/ >> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten >> ************************************* >> *************************************************** >> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a >> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and >> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu >> >> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the >> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto >> >> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart >> >> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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