Huh! Very odd. Not at all my own experience. Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 4, 2016, at 1:21 PM, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote: > > > >> On 12/04/2016 02:10 PM, Patrick Moore wrote: >> Steve: I am always surprised when I find that people have difficulty >> friction shifting Hyperglide, with any number of cogs from 7 to 9. IME, HG >> cogs shift better with friction than the old cogs with straight, square-cut >> teeth. I know what you mean by the feeling of lag, but while I experience >> that with indexed systems, I never experience it when shifting the same HG >> cogs in friction. I don't think my technique is so hugely refined, either. I >> probably do overshift slightly, from habit and without thinking, but I do >> that also with non-ramped/cut cogs. I rarely have to trim with HG. > > Sure, they shift easily. They want to shift. What they don't want to do is > stay on a single sprocket - unless they are perfectly centered, and they > don't give you any tactile or auditory indication when that is. So, the > result is, you're perfectly fine at low pressure -- say, coasting to a stop > at a traffic light -- but when you put a lot of pressure on the drive train, > such as climbing a steep section or starting the bike up from a dead halt, > the chain will upshift with a CRASH to the next smaller sprocket, commonly > known as "ghost shifting." > >> >> Perhaps I so honed my shifting skills with a bent Alvit with loose pivots, >> pushrod Benelux, and bendy Simplex Delrin, that anything even slightly >> better is easy? But I doubt it. >> >> I recall my old Herse, which I had equipped with a series of 5 or 6 speed >> fws, all pre HG. I forget what the rd was, but at any rate, the same rd >> shifter HG cogs better than it did the old fws. Same shifters, too. >> >>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote: >>>> On 12/03/2016 11:52 PM, Max S wrote: >>>> Friction shifting should be by far the easiest to set up and manage – just >>>> get the limit screws set up right, which you can do without the chain on >>>> the bike, and you're good to go. So, there's definitely something going on >>>> that would be easiest to trouble-shoot "in person." >>>> >>> >>> Friction shifting Hyperglide is anything but "easy". Yes the shifts happen >>> easily, much more so than was the case in the 1970s, but you don't get the >>> clack-clack-clack feedback to let you know when you are properly centered, >>> making ghost shifts (which is the complaint here) likely. I will admit, >>> though, 7 speed Hyperglide is easier to friction shift than 8. >>> >>> >>>> But I'll play online mechanic, too: >>>> >>>> What hub are you running?.. If it's an 8-9-10 speed hub, a 7sp cassette >>>> will most likely wobble, causing mis-shifts, and requiring a spacer to >>>> fix. >>>> If there's no wobble to the cassette, I'd check shifter cable tightness >>>> when the RD & chain are on the smallest cog – if >>>> it's too loose, the cable pull will be off throughout the entire range. >>> >>> That may well be an issue with indexing, but with friction it means nothing >>> provided the lever has enough travel to take up tension to get to the >>> largest sprocket. >>> >>> >>>> (Also be sure that the shifters aren't slipping mid-range – tighten if >>>> needed.) >>>> >>>> Also, are the cogs ramped?.. some 7sp cassettes (and freewheels) didn't >>>> have any ramps. >>> >>> The cassette in question is definitely Hyperglide. I've never used an >>> 8-9-10 speed hub, both my 7 speed setups are with spacers on 8/9, but with >>> that spacer in place they certainly don't wobble. And the OP is using a >>> spacer. >>> >>>> A 9 sp chain could simply be too flexible to get onto the next cog without >>>> a greater overshift, requiring you to "back off" right after the shift >>>> happens. (Shift happens...ha!) (In the olden days, that's how people >>>> friction-shifted anyway, and then some early indexing shifters – SunTour – >>>> even took that into account with built-in lashback.) >>> >>> I think you're confusing cause and effect. Readers of Frank Berto's >>> exhaustive derailleur studies BITD will recall that some derailleurs were >>> "early shifting" (e.g., Shimano) while others were "late shifting" (for >>> example, Campagnolo NR and SunTour). Overshifting and backing off is >>> required technique with late shifting rear derailleurs, but not necessarily >>> with early shifting ones. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Lastly, I'd not mess with a 9sp chain on a 7sp cassette. An 7/8 sp chain >>>> is usually the same whether for a 7 or 8 sp cluster, but a 9 sp chain >>>> tends to make noise and misbehaves a bit on a 7 or 8 sp cluster, IME. >>> >>> In fact, although when 8 first came out there was a difference between 7 >>> speed and 8 speed chains today those 8 speed chains are called 7/8 by the >>> manufacturers, sometimes even 6/7/8 or 5/6/7/8. I've never actually tried >>> a 9 speed chain on 7. >>> >>>> >>>> BTW, I was setting up a "1xN" bike for my kid and discovered that the rear >>>> hub was Shimano 600 of the 7sp variety. Due to a number of considerations, >>>> I needed to fit a 9sp cassette on there, so I just dropped the >>>> next-to-smallest cog from the cluster and ended up with an 8 cog cluster >>>> having 9sp spacing. Shifts great, even with indexing. :-) >>> >>> Sheldon's famous "8 of 9 on 7" -- which for some reason always makes me >>> think of her: >>> >>> <mime-attachment.jpg> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> - Max (A2) >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 4:16:00 PM UTC-5, Eric Karnes wrote: >>>>> Hi all- >>>>> >>>>> I was wondering if I could pick your brain a bit on this. I ended up with >>>>> the following setup for my Hilsen 1x7: >>>>> >>>>> - Existing Wolf Tooth 40T Drop Stop wide/narrow ring >>>>> - Deore 9spd Rear Derailleur (with pulleys swapped ala Deacon Patrick's >>>>> advice) >>>>> - Riv Silver Downtube Shifters >>>>> - HG-50 7sp Cassette (12-32) spaced with proper notched spacer on a >>>>> 8/9/10 speed cassette >>>>> - SRAM 9 speed chain (narrower 9 or 10sp chains are recommended for the >>>>> Drop Stop ring) >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, shifting is even worse than it was. Aside from constant ghost >>>>> shifting under load, it honestly feels like I'm NEVER in gear and can't >>>>> really ride the bike as is (though I made >>>>> a valiant effort today). Even on the bike stand, there feels like there >>>>> is friction when I spin the crank. I'm not a skilled home mechanic by any >>>>> means, but I don't usually feel this incompetent! Oy. >>>>> >>>>> Anyone have a similar 1x setup? And any advice? I'm thinking of just >>>>> going to a standard 1x matched index setup and selling these parts. But >>>>> that's a pricey proposition for me and I wanted to see if I could figure >>>>> this out first. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Eric >>>>> >>>>> P.S. I know the logical solution is to just bring it to a local LBS. But >>>>> I'm having a lot of trouble finding one within riding distance (I don't >>>>> own a car) that even knows how to work with 'retro-y' parts. I've pretty >>>>> much given up on cantilever brakes for this reason...after spending a ton >>>>> of money getting them (very poorly) installed and adjusted a number of >>>>> times...including once when the brake pad fell out during a ride. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. >> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. >> Other professional writing services. >> http://www.resumespecialties.com/ >> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten >> **************************************************************************************** >> The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a >> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and >> individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu >> Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. (The cross stands motionless while the world >> revolves.) Carthusian motto >> >> It is we who change; He remains the same. Eckhart >> >> Kinei hos eromenon. (It moves [all things] as the beloved.) Aristotle >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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